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Hello there,
All of you who pre-ordered and helped Notion Ink start building the community must have received an email today. One email is on the confirmation of shipping and the other one is on the delay. Those who are in the later group (5.31%) are angry as I could see their comments and the emails.
It is extremely unfortunate that we are in such a situation. We could not have expected the accidental damage of the touch screen shipment, and that too just days before Chinese New Year eve. Even though the damage was to a part of shipment, we cancelled all because in such a case you cannot predict the defective and working screens manually. Our friends at Sintek requested their employees to miss their New Year week and instead manufacture the lost numbers. Most of them agreed.
Blogs are not easily accessible in China, and these employees don’t speak English. But their mangers do and know how to read your reactions, comments, thoughts on the peoject and are extremely passionate about Adam like you, and probably this is why they were able to convince their employees to work for you.
You shouldn’t go through this useless pain, but there is a whole group at Notion Ink and at our manufacturing plants putting in all the efforts at delivering you Adams. You have came this far with us, I will request for little more patience. We are listening and working on your suggestions at support at notionink dot com or preordersupport at notionink dot com.
Regards
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sam, if you are really going to experience "pain"
for the next two weeks over the fact that a silly tech device is not going to be delivered to you on time, than we need to talk. Lets look around ourselves and see those who are really in pain.
I heard that the donut machine is down at the krispy Kreme. Now those people lined up out there are in pain.
The people who are still waiting for their Toyota to accelerate on its own. They are in pain.
The people lined up at Walmart for Black Friday, even though it is Monday and January. They are in pain.
You waiting for another two weeks to get a piece of plastic that lights up with batteries (and by that time will have most of the bugs worked out of it), I don't think should qualify as "pain".
My Adam has the same delivery date as yours. Yes it has been delayed four times! I hope I get out of this line at Krispy Kreme in time to get home before it arrives.
So, since the nook color already has one, how long do you think it will be until the adam gets a honeycomb rom?
I want to see this as well screw all the other roms. No offense. But I would love to see honeycomb on the adam be the XOOM or lg's slate come out.
This is going to be a big sticking point for the Adam if it doesn't get ported over quickly... Honeycomb looks pretty awesome.
Why would it not be ported over quickly?
And why a comment about it being a sticking point for Adam? Adam, we hope, will be a great platform for all kinds of experiments with Android and possibly other operating systems. Your post just seemed to have a negative bent to it, and I was wondering why.
There is, nor has there been any reason that I know of, to believe that the Adam will not get Honeycomb very early. Hope we can keep this XDA Adam forum positive and working toward making the Adam better and fun for all. That other forum has enough negativity to go around.
johnboatcat said:
And why a comment about it being a sticking point for Adam? Adam, we hope, will be a great platform for all kinds of experiments with Android and possibly other operating systems. Your post just seemed to have a negative bent to it, and I was wondering why.
There is, nor has there been any reason that I know of, to believe that the Adam will not get Honeycomb very early. Hope we can keep this XDA Adam forum positive and working toward making the Adam better and fun for all. That other forum has enough negativity to go around.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I honestly don't want Adam getting left in the dust with other Honeycomb tablets coming out. I've owned 4 Android tablets now and none of them have quite fit the bill. It's really hard to find a tablet that balances quality with price. And the NotionInk Adam looks like it's a good blend -- it's at a low enough entry price-point ($425 shipped) with pretty decent bones (Tegra2, 1GB RAM) but it really needs good software to complete the experience. Those good bones (Tegra2 chip) don't really mean much unless we are able to take advantage of them.
My last tablet was a ViewSonic G-Tablet and I definitely noticed a speed boost compared to my Chinese tablets, but Android 2.2 simply wasn't able to fully take advantage of the hardware (specifically the Tegra2's GPU). As you might have seen in some of the recent news, Google has put a good amount of effort into Honeycomb to allow them to take advantage of the GPU both directly in their OS (eg. transitions / animations) as well as building it directly into their APIs (eg. Renderscript). That being said, if I'm buying some nice hardware I expect to be able to take advantage of it (via the software layer)... NotionInk tried to do this with Eden, but most of their software does not take advantage of the GPU -- the only place I've heard them identify as using the GPU is for the rendering of the leaves when they are in the slanted switcher mode.
Also, don't be alarmed if you occasionally see a post with a negative / criticising tone to it. Notion Ink is a new company which has done a lot of things right, but they've also made a ton of mistakes along the way. I do hope them the best and I'm rooting for them to sort things out, but that doesn't mean I'm going to blindly follow them without pointing out things where I think they can improve. After all, that's what XDA is all about -- pointing out the things we want to improve in our devices and figuring out how to do it!
PS. Having owned the G-tablet and seeing what the XDA devs (Roebeet, Rothnic, etc) were able to do to that is one of the main reasons I decided to get the Adam. The Adam is using the Tegra2 SoC which is one of the key ingredients to the Honeycomb reference platform... so I expect that the XDA devs will probably be able to cook up a nice Honeycomb ROM once they can get their hands on the proper code.
its going to be a tough one..
Honeycomb's interface or eden?
Personally I think id choose eden therefore honeycomb doesn't affect me as much. I havent had a chance to use 3.0 though so we'll wait and see.
daml said:
its going to be a tough one..
Honeycomb's interface or eden?
Personally I think id choose eden therefore honeycomb doesn't affect me as much. I havent had a chance to use 3.0 though so we'll wait and see.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess it's important for Notion Ink that Eden is a success as it will fuel income from and development for the Genesis market.
From what I've read sofar, that cashflow is an important part of NI's business model.
So I hope that Eden develops into the best UI overlay there is and thar many tweakers decide to port Eden to their non-Adam tablets.
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App
daml said:
its going to be a tough one..
Honeycomb's interface or eden?
Personally I think id choose eden therefore honeycomb doesn't affect me as much. I havent had a chance to use 3.0 though so we'll wait and see.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Except that Honeycomb takes advantage of the hardware, includes a new graphics rendering engine, and a other non ui improvements...
The key to honeycomb is hardware acceleration. laggy or choppy graphics will be a thing of the past.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
I agree!
"that's what XDA is all about -- pointing out the things we want to improve in our devices and figuring out how to do it!"
Constructive criticism is a wonderful thing and definitely has it's place at XDA. That other forum has just degenerated into a 90% negative and bashing secession, and I would not like to see them move it over here.
i like to ask questions to the support team. sometimes they answer, sometimes they dont, but here's one for honeycomb. nothing new, but i just wonder what their progress on Honeycomb
_______________________________________________________
Dear Inspiron41
Greetings from the Notion Ink Support Team !!
Your valuable suggestions are much appreciated and we are working on making Honeycomb available on the Adam.
As for the issues that you have pointed out, we are making an update available shortly, which will fix these issues. You will be contacted once this update is made available.
Please contact us in case you need any further assistance.
Thank you for your continued support to Notion Ink!
Warm Regards
Alan
Notion Ink Support Team
- Show quoted text -
--
Warm Regards
Alan
Notion Ink Support Team
How long does it take to make a new honeycomb rom? i saw the honeycomb rom for the nook color! and i think it will be great on my adam!
Good news everyone!
In an earlier thread (the [DEV] Recovery/Config thread), I mentioned that my company has a large corporate account with Acer and I was going to work my contacts to try and contact Acer and bring attention to the bootloader issue.
In my initial message to them, I informed them that Acer has a reputation of being "hostile" to the development community, reputations that the Xoom and the Transformer do not have. Specifically, I stated we needed the kernel source, which they're required to provide per the GPL, and for the bootloader to be unlocked so that we could load custom recovery and images. I told him that several people have stated they have returned the Iconia because it wasnt friendly for development, and that the developers and "power users" in this community have a vested interest in seeing development thrive and seeing the device succeed. I had two contacts with Acer I had hoped would garner a response.
Today, I received a response from one of those contacts, the Senior Product Manager of Notebooks, Tablets and Netbooks for Acer America.
While I can't post his contact information or the full text of his response (he was not empowered to speak publically on behalf of the company), he was able to share a bit of information with me that I can relay.
To summarize:
- Acer is aware of the community's reaction to the locked bootloader and unreleased kernel. They saw what went on with HTC's bootloader fiasco and they are now discussing their policy internally.
- They view the perception of the Iconia in the Android development and enthusiast community as very important.
- While he couldn't give me any specifics, he did reassure me that he is actively working with his team to find how quickly they can address the bootloader/kernel issues with the Iconia and what specific actions they would take.
So they are aware of the issue and they are working to correct it. He gave me both his work and personal contact information and he said he'd keep me posted of updates.
My personal guess is that there is more involved in the decision than just the Acer America team, but at least they're aware of the negative perception and they're taking steps to correct it.
I'll keep you all advised as I find out more, but I'm happy to see progress being made! There's still hope yet.
excellent, I believe there is an open petition thread (in general) that you may want to forward on to him, might give more ammo with the higher ups!
Good work my friend!
That's an encouraging response, kudos to Acer for hiring the guy. Too many times you get the basic canned response that goes something like "we know what we are doing, so suckit and deal with it". And good job, Fumetsu, on what sounds like a well thought out and worded request for info in the first place.
This give me hope that I'll be able to get flash-happy with my A500 in the future, even though I bought it knowing that I would probabaly be getting something else later in the year. Honeycomb just doesn't have all the dev potential that I've seen with my GTab, Nook, and Inspire...... but one can always dream.
Very good news indeed. I just want to be able to use stock Honeycomb, or Ice Cream Sandwich when that's available, without all the 'extra' software and apps that are generally unnecessary. From a business view it seems like they could have saved quite a bit of money and time if they had left the bootloader unlocked in the first place. All they would need to do is host their own update files online for people that want them and leave the rest to the Dev community. Just my thinking anyway. I feel like there is a large enough user base in the Android community that would justify an unlocked bootloader. I guess all we can do is wait and see what happens. =)
Nice. Thanks for your effort. Hope they do listen to Iconia users!!!
Enviado desde mi A500 usando XDA Premium App
Thanks all. Although he was light on specifics it was a very encouraging response. I just hope they move fast, the market is growing rapidly and dev interest can wane for the "next big thing " and Acer can find itself trailing in the market, even if it has better hardware and potential.
nice, let's keep our fingers crossed for this.
i hope that something will happen soon ...
Can you tell him to (cough) leak something (cough)?
I had the Acer Liquid and we used to get leaks like crazy. But nothing for the Iconia
Hello
Very good news, I hope it's not only a commercial response
@+
Where I come from we say:
Those who live in hope dies shi**ing ... :-D
But I also hope that bootloader will finally unlocked
Sent from my A500 using XDA Premium App
acer driver page updated
On acers driver page they have in the last day or so added some content tabs. A place where os and updates will put available. So I do think they have some plans on atleast giving available to d/load recovery is and updates.I beloved this will come wyen or soon after they begin pushing 3.1 to our devices.everyone has spoken I think now its time tobsee if Acer comes thru.
Keeping gentle and responsible pressure in then not bashing and sending threats is prob best.
Just my two and ¼ pennies. Thanks all in the community
Blonde geeky chic
Erica renee
Pure speculation here... I think that I read somewhere that AT&T will be releasing an Acer Iconia Android a501 tab soon. Could that be why Acer has this policy? After all, AT&T is notorious about this sort of thing. My Atrix and I know this all to well.
My two cents:
1) it's really not a good idea to start of a conversation with someone you want to give you a welcoming response with "I informed them that Acer has a reputation of being hostile to the development community." You don't want to kiss their ass but you certainly don't want to tell a company that everyone hates them and then expect them to do something nice for you.
2) Market penetration versus market stability. Right now Acer has a product that is readily available. Reviews have been mixed. (I ignore the ones who ***** about weight because 0.2 ounce difference is two quarters and three dimes in weight. Grow a f*cking pair biceps, you wieners.) But CNET and all the other mainstream reviewers claim that an iPad (not iPad II) and the Asus Transformer are the better deals.
But let's be honest about the responses. Sure, iPad is a gimme because it's a hip, cultural thing. Just like telling some kid that Pabst Blue Ribbon beer is **** will not get them to change brands as long as it is perceived to be "cool." So forget the iPad. As for the Transformer? Sure you can have an unlocked bootlader and new snazzy 3.1 roms, but who besides the true fanboy has one of them? They won't have stock until October of this year, and then it will be newer more powerful models coming out. The majority of people have bought a computer (desktop) and a cellphone and that's as far as they go in tech. Sure you have an iPhone but do they really use it for computing and service? They load the apps that their kids told them to. Acer can fill this gap by doing one or two things in the immediate future that could lock them into a top spot: drop the price of A500 by $40 or, work with the telcos to build and ship the next gen, wireless tablet. They are not going to drop the price because the units are selling enough that some bean counter says it competes with the other tablets in the market. But this would be an issue if Asus had their **** together and had the Transformer in plenty of stock.
This is the reason for the locked bootlader. If companies plan to add wireless to the next gen (or rev) tablets, they will get a lot of attention from the telcos. The phone companies do not, I repeat, do not want unlimited broadband connectivity. These are the same people who still charge for cell-phone texts. Why? Because they can and they know people will go over limits. Limits and exceeding them rack in the dollars. And they have millions of dollars set aside to keep their limits (profits rolling in).
If the broadband wireless next version of the Acer is different enough in Honeycomb 3.1 than the A500, then they might release an unlocked profile for the small group of XDA developers and those that read this forum. For the general population (and the large amount of sales), telcos want locked systems so that metered broadband is the norm. But if there is any way of porting and unlocked A500 to the wireless model, I don't think they'll do it. Also, it shows good faith to the telcos that they are already in step with them about creating limits on the user base. The phone companies will show favor to locked systems over the others. And that's the second choice Acer already made.
look here and join as much as possibile!
http://www.facebook.com/?m2w#!/home.php?sk=group_149462058455870&ap=1
Cross the finger me too...
The_Monkey_King said:
My two cents:
1) it's really not a good idea to start of a conversation with someone you want to give you a welcoming response with "I informed them that Acer has a reputation of being hostile to the development community." You don't want to kiss their ass but you certainly don't want to tell a company that everyone hates them and then expect them to do something nice for you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hello!
Just to clarify, I didn't bash the Iconia or Acer itself, only that it is perceived as "hostile" to 3rd party developers. I actually took that "hostile" quote directly from a developer on these boards and compared development efforts with the Xoom and the Transformer. I made sure to stress that we have a vested interest in the success of 3rd party development on the Acer so that its perception as developer friendly in the community could be improved.
My initial contact and his response were cordial and respectful, so I don't believe he took it this way. I structured my contact with him stating that I felt the Iconia was a great product, had benefits the other Android tablets do not, has the distinction as of now being the fastest selling Android Honeycomb tablet, and that developers are eager to work with the device. He was quite clear that he valued the feedback and they wanted to and are working to address it.
We exchanged personal and business contact information so it was definitely a positive response.
mr.r9 said:
Can you tell him to (cough) leak something (cough)?
I had the Acer Liquid and we used to get leaks like crazy. But nothing for the Iconia
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wouldn't want to risk his position within Acer by asking for a leak. I told him that I would redact his contact info and would not directly quote his response because he is a business contact for my company and I don't want to jeopardize that relationship or get him in trouble with the company. He was clear that they know it is an issue and that he personally was working with his team to find out the best way to resolve it in the quickest manner possible. Knowing how big corporations work, it's not up to one man or I believe even Acer America itself, but I surmise there are higher level talks going on. His team is directly responsible for product development of tablets and netbooks and I believe he is in a prime position to move Acer towards resolution.
diamond_cbr said:
Hello
Very good news, I hope it's not only a commercial response
@+
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It definitely wasn't a canned commerical response that one would get from T1 Acer Tech Support. If it was something I felt was said just to placate me or was just a generic statement, I would not have bothered posting this to get everyone's hopes up. It really gave me encouragement that they do see this as an issue and that he does want to help.
The_Monkey_King said:
My two cents:
1) it's really not a good idea to start of a conversation with someone you want to give you a welcoming response with "I informed them that Acer has a reputation of being hostile to the development community." You don't want to kiss their ass but you certainly don't want to tell a company that everyone hates them and then expect them to do something nice for you.
2) Market penetration versus market stability. Right now Acer has a product that is readily available. Reviews have been mixed. (I ignore the ones who ***** about weight because 0.2 ounce difference is two quarters and three dimes in weight. Grow a f*cking pair biceps, you wieners.) But CNET and all the other mainstream reviewers claim that an iPad (not iPad II) and the Asus Transformer are the better deals.
But let's be honest about the responses. Sure, iPad is a gimme because it's a hip, cultural thing. Just like telling some kid that Pabst Blue Ribbon beer is **** will not get them to change brands as long as it is perceived to be "cool." So forget the iPad. As for the Transformer? Sure you can have an unlocked bootlader and new snazzy 3.1 roms, but who besides the true fanboy has one of them? They won't have stock until October of this year, and then it will be newer more powerful models coming out. The majority of people have bought a computer (desktop) and a cellphone and that's as far as they go in tech. Sure you have an iPhone but do they really use it for computing and service? They load the apps that their kids told them to. Acer can fill this gap by doing one or two things in the immediate future that could lock them into a top spot: drop the price of A500 by $40 or, work with the telcos to build and ship the next gen, wireless tablet. They are not going to drop the price because the units are selling enough that some bean counter says it competes with the other tablets in the market. But this would be an issue if Asus had their **** together and had the Transformer in plenty of stock.
This is the reason for the locked bootlader. If companies plan to add wireless to the next gen (or rev) tablets, they will get a lot of attention from the telcos. The phone companies do not, I repeat, do not want unlimited broadband connectivity. These are the same people who still charge for cell-phone texts. Why? Because they can and they know people will go over limits. Limits and exceeding them rack in the dollars. And they have millions of dollars set aside to keep their limits (profits rolling in).
If the broadband wireless next version of the Acer is different enough in Honeycomb 3.1 than the A500, then they might release an unlocked profile for the small group of XDA developers and those that read this forum. For the general population (and the large amount of sales), telcos want locked systems so that metered broadband is the norm. But if there is any way of porting and unlocked A500 to the wireless model, I don't think they'll do it. Also, it shows good faith to the telcos that they are already in step with them about creating limits on the user base. The phone companies will show favor to locked systems over the others. And that's the second choice Acer already made.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Didn't the Xoom went through the same thing regarding being released through a carrier with a catch of having to activated a plan? ... and later on got unlocked bootloader straight from MOTO ?
http://www.androidcentral.com/unlocking-motorola-xoom-bootloader-forums
Each ones has its own potential... yet ruined by marketing greed... ( carriers $$$ gouging ) ...etc... ^^$$$^^
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-20029411-1.html
I'm an Iconian "TYPE A" BTW
could you please sign it/vote it ...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1102690
"Strength in ###"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
...
Ask him why they haven't released the source yet, please.
To remain in compliance with the license, they'd have had to release it the same day as the bins. :|
I'm really starting to wish I waited for the transformer.
I'm sure for many people, the last 24 hours has sucked in regards to SHIELD. I know for me it has. And even more frustrating is the lack of communication and transparency that should be expected from a large corporation who cares about its customers. Obviously, I feel the anger and frustration that is being vented both in the geforce forums and, to a lesser extent, over here on XDA. And I have no other outlet than XDA. First, and foremost, realize that the decision to delay the product, the reasons behind it, and the execution of the delay are unrelated. I, along with many, feel they really messed up on the execution of the announcement. Am I disappointed? Of course I am. There are hundreds of engineers around the world who have been putting in long hours for months (some of us, even over a year) to make this product. This is a passion for us. I, personally, involved myself into community aspects of the device. For example, I was one of the voices asking for the device to be unlockable. And NVIDIA didn't put up a fight for it, they agreed. Deep down, the heart of the company wants the best for everyone.
I'd like to answer a few questions that I ask myself, as a developer and a member of the XDA community:
1. Do you plan to run CM on the device, and why?
This is always a very important question for me while at work. This question is important because it represents all the shortcomings I feel exist in the product. But I'm not the average user, I'm an XDA member. That means that additional settings do not scare me. Ease of use can be reduced in the name of more advanced functionality. And Google Certification is a requirement that CM doesn't have. But I think deeply about every feature I want from a custom ROM, and what the product should do. Ultimately, yes, I plan to install CM. And it is because of the advanced tweaks available in CM that don't belong in a standard user device.
2. Do you think the device is worth it?
Do I think the device is worth the long hours, the stress, the loss of my personal development time (which is why I had to mostly drop the EVO 3D), and the time away from my kids? Obviously, that question also has the benefits I've gotten, like attending CES and Google I/O. But ultimately, I still work on it, and I still want it to be the best it can be. So the answer has to be yes.
3. This whole debacle is ridiculous, shouldn't I just cancel my pre-order? NVIDIA obviously doesn't know how to launch a product...
This comes back to the earlier message. Engineers build a product, marketing sells a product, and the company as a whole is represented by the product. The mistakes made in the messaging and delays don't represent the engineering and product, they represent a company which still has some lessons in releasing a customer product. It's easy to get emotionally wrapped up in it, because the disappointment so close to the release. And I'm not immune. If anything, I've also got the disappointment in the world finally getting to see what we've done and use it. That's why I'm writing this thread, because it helps me express my feelings in a constructive way.
4. What would you change?
I'm slowly becoming disenchanted with Google's AOSP design. While I love the product being so close to AOSP, it reminds me how ugly AOSP really is. I don't want something like Sense or Touchwiz. What I want is AOSP, but sharper looking and using the graphical power of modern devices. Does everything really need a flat gray look? TWRP looks ugly to me, compared to the install phase of 4EXT. Halo is outdated and sad-looking. I want glass effects, I want sharp text and lines. I want to feel like the display is sharp and crisp while in the launcher and settings. I want my settings to have tabs (like MIUI used to have, maybe still does?) for the different areas. But again, the goal is to line up with AOSP, which I can respect.
Ok, so I'm out of questions and I'm feeling a bit better. If you have questions for me, be my guest... I'll do my best to answer, and when I can't, I'll do my best to get an official answer...
agrabren said:
I'm sure for many people, the last 24 hours has sucked in regards to SHIELD. I know for me it has. And even more frustrating is the lack of communication and transparency that should be expected from a large corporation who cares about its customers. Obviously, I feel the anger and frustration that is being vented both in the geforce forums and, to a lesser extent, over here on XDA. And I have no other outlet than XDA. First, and foremost, realize that the decision to delay the product, the reasons behind it, and the execution of the delay are unrelated. I, along with many, feel they really messed up on the execution of the announcement. Am I disappointed? Of course I am. There are hundreds of engineers around the world who have been putting in long hours for months (some of us, even over a year) to make this product. This is a passion for us. I, personally, involved myself into community aspects of the device. For example, I was one of the voices asking for the device to be unlockable. And NVIDIA didn't put up a fight for it, they agreed. Deep down, the heart of the company wants the best for everyone.
I'd like to answer a few questions that I ask myself, as a developer and a member of the XDA community:
1. Do you plan to run CM on the device, and why?
This is always a very important question for me while at work. This question is important because it represents all the shortcomings I feel exist in the product. But I'm not the average user, I'm an XDA member. That means that additional settings do not scare me. Ease of use can be reduced in the name of more advanced functionality. And Google Certification is a requirement that CM doesn't have. But I think deeply about every feature I want from a custom ROM, and what the product should do. Ultimately, yes, I plan to install CM. And it is because of the advanced tweaks available in CM that don't belong in a standard user device.
2. Do you think the device is worth it?
Do I think the device is worth the long hours, the stress, the loss of my personal development time (which is why I had to mostly drop the EVO 3D), and the time away from my kids? Obviously, that question also has the benefits I've gotten, like attending CES and Google I/O. But ultimately, I still work on it, and I still want it to be the best it can be. So the answer has to be yes.
3. This whole debacle is ridiculous, shouldn't I just cancel my pre-order? NVIDIA obviously doesn't know how to launch a product...
This comes back to the earlier message. Engineers build a product, marketing sells a product, and the company as a whole is represented by the product. The mistakes made in the messaging and delays don't represent the engineering and product, they represent a company which still has some lessons in releasing a customer product. It's easy to get emotionally wrapped up in it, because the disappointment so close to the release. And I'm not immune. If anything, I've also got the disappointment in the world finally getting to see what we've done and use it. That's why I'm writing this thread, because it helps me express my feelings in a constructive way.
4. What would you change?
I'm slowly becoming disenchanted with Google's AOSP design. While I love the product being so close to AOSP, it reminds me how ugly AOSP really is. I don't want something like Sense or Touchwiz. What I want is AOSP, but sharper looking and using the graphical power of modern devices. Does everything really need a flat gray look? TWRP looks ugly to me, compared to the install phase of 4EXT. Halo is outdated and sad-looking. I want glass effects, I want sharp text and lines. I want to feel like the display is sharp and crisp while in the launcher and settings. I want my settings to have tabs (like MIUI used to have, maybe still does?) for the different areas. But again, the goal is to line up with AOSP, which I can respect.
Ok, so I'm out of questions and I'm feeling a bit better. If you have questions for me, be my guest... I'll do my best to answer, and when I can't, I'll do my best to get an official answer...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thanks man!
am i sad about the delay? yeah a little. but i respect Nvidia as a company and I know they can deliver. and if they need an extra month(or 4) to do so, im perfectly ok with it. from the gpu's to the specs to the videos, websites and drivers.. i love almost everything about Nvidia and a botched release date is NOT going to make me cancel my pre-order.
I hope nvidia uses this time to add/optimize a few extra streamable games
Excuse me for the non-Shield related question, I just wanted to know if you definetly dropped the EVO 3D or in future you probably come back..of course you don't have to give a single explaination to anybody, but if you won't develop anymore for evo, probably I will change device because there isn't a fully functional and stable rom (with or without 3D) with a new version of jelly bean and I have to stuck on the old Android 4.0..I appreciate the efforts that many developers are still making for this quite-old device, but some bugs probably won't never be fixed without you (i'm talking about battery drain, bootloops..).
Sorry for the off topic..
I know delays can happen. What frustrates me is the short notice and the fact that specs in the mobile world get outdated in about 6 months. I want this device while it is the cream of the crop as far as specifications are concerned. I don't think it was a coincidence that Gamestop had the release date listed as 6/30 for awhile.
Evo_Shift said:
I know delays can happen. What frustrates me is the short notice and the fact that specs in the mobile world get outdated in about 6 months. I want this device while it is the cream of the crop as far as specifications are concerned. I don't think it was a coincidence that Gamestop had the release date listed as 6/30 for awhile.
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The 6/30 release date was because we listed "by the end of June" as our target launch date before we made had set a hard launch date. So GameStop did the obvious: June has 30 days, so it ships June 30th.
gigsaw said:
Excuse me for the non-Shield related question, I just wanted to know if you definetly dropped the EVO 3D or in future you probably come back..of course you don't have to give a single explaination to anybody, but if you won't develop anymore for evo, probably I will change device because there isn't a fully functional and stable rom (with or without 3D) with a new version of jelly bean and I have to stuck on the old Android 4.0..I appreciate the efforts that many developers are still making for this quite-old device, but some bugs probably won't never be fixed without you (i'm talking about battery drain, bootloops..).
Sorry for the off topic..
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My future on the EVO 3D is on a feature-by-feature basis. As was pointed out accurately, since I don't run the OS as a daily, I don't see the issues like I did when it was my primary device.
There is a project to build a dual-boot version of Android (currently in Kickstarter) which is planned to be release on all the major Windows Tablets. It look interesting, i just wish they had a working beta.
Looking at the video its just Android X86 and a demo/benchmark running on the back.
Typical KS vaporware, and the guy plans to charge you every year to use what's basically a repackaged OS made by the community.
Totally not a scam...
Yeah, making a free OS into a dual-boot paid OS is a non-starter, excuse the pun. The KS video pitch took about 30secs to trigger my BS meter. It's the downside of KS; easy money from the gullible will always attract sharks.
Liliputing has a piece on some Chinese tab vendors offering drop-in Win8.1 FW for Android tabs,
http://liliputing.com/2014/06/chine...ing-windows-8-1-firmware-android-tablets.html
It's not yet dual-boot, but it's probably a precursor, given now that x86 Win8.1 and Android can run on the same hardware base. Kudos to Intel.
The surprising thing about the offer is the link to download Win8.1. As noted in the piece's comments, I'm wondering how the licensing is handled. Despite the fact that 8.1 is now free for small tabs, 8.1u1's licensing scheme still hasn't changed AFAIK. I doubt that the tab in question has an OEM key, so it's probably unlicensed, and needs "creative" means to activate. Regardless, it's a positive step for platform interoperability.
I'm waiting to see what this year's crop of And/Win mini-tabs will be like. Am hoping for improved connectivity (read: more ports), but looks like the improvement will be in price, with median starting price from $150-200, or $100 less than last year. That's a pretty huge drop. Am holding out for at least a dedicated charging port, to free up the USB.
Yeah, consider the irony of Microsoft cutting Win8 licenses to just $15 and making it free for tabs smaller than 9" while this guy pretends to charge you $10 not once but EVERY YEAR for something you can download and install for free right now.
What I don't understand is why the community and the press aren't denouncing this guy, the way things are going he's probably going to reach his goal
OS
Dual boot is pain, if something which is working on Virtual Machine that makes me happy...
>Dual boot is pain, if something which is working on Virtual Machine that makes me happy...
Yes it is, which is why people who want dual-boot is a tiny minority. Console OS purportedly has a hypervisor, which presumably will run beneath both OS'es, and allowing "instant switching." Purportedly, it will be made to run in devices with only 2GB RAM, has "user-friendly" install, is "bulletproof" and "production-ready" Android, and will have access to Google Play, Amazon App Store, etc. Oh, and it'll have all sorts of goodies in the Pro version. Uh, hold on while I switch off my bullsh!t alarm...
I've done a bit more reading on Mr. Price's exploits, and evidence leans toward "scam" status. For example, he is also CEO of iConsole.tv, of which the developer "unit 00" was supposed to ship by Sept 2013. But there is no evidence of it ever shipping, nor its exact specs, yet on the iConsole.tv site it's listed as "out of stock." There are other discrepancies in his work history claims.
The sad thing is that as far as KS is concerned, it's legit, because it needs to only be a "good faith" effort. A failed venture isn't a scam, and malice is hard to prove. But telltale signs of "too good to be true" claims are abundant in this case. Anyone here remember the Adam tablet by Notion Ink a couple years ago? Same MO.
Even if it is a scam, I think it's a good thing, if it serves as a life lesson. First-hand experience (of being scammed) is the best educator. Think of it as a $10 inoculation shot. That's pretty cheap if it can buy you a modicum of prudence and caution.
100% True
I agree with you.. I used one chines tablet which is dual boot; truth i hate the performance and switching..
Yesterday Mr. Gary guided me to install the Android 4.2.2 on my Windows, which is running very decent.. I love the performance till now.. Its working above VM and size around 300MB which is very most important for me.. He said adb, debugging they are working it will be added soon.. looking forward..
I just donated him 12$ for his good work- you guy can reach him at [email protected]
e.mote said:
>Dual boot is pain, if something which is working on Virtual Machine that makes me happy...
Yes it is, which is why people who want dual-boot is a tiny minority. Console OS purportedly has a hypervisor, which presumably will run beneath both OS'es, and allowing "instant switching." Purportedly, it will be made to run in devices with only 2GB RAM, has "user-friendly" install, is "bulletproof" and "production-ready" Android, and will have access to Google Play, Amazon App Store, etc. Oh, and it'll have all sorts of goodies in the Pro version. Uh, hold on while I switch off my bullsh!t alarm...
I've done a bit more reading on Mr. Price's exploits, and evidence leans toward "scam" status. For example, he is also CEO of iConsole.tv, of which the developer "unit 00" was supposed to ship by Sept 2013. But there is no evidence of it ever shipping, nor its exact specs, yet on the iConsole.tv site it's listed as "out of stock." There are other discrepancies in his work history claims.
The sad thing is that as far as KS is concerned, it's legit, because it needs to only be a "good faith" effort. A failed venture isn't a scam, and malice is hard to prove. But telltale signs of "too good to be true" claims are abundant in this case. Anyone here remember the Adam tablet by Notion Ink a couple years ago? Same MO.
Even if it is a scam, I think it's a good thing, if it serves as a life lesson. First-hand experience (of being scammed) is the best educator. Think of it as a $10 inoculation shot. That's pretty cheap if it can buy you a modicum of prudence and caution.
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>I just donated him 12$ for his good work- you guy can reach him at [email protected]
Hahah, thanks for the chuckle.
I agree with everything you said e.mote
e.mote said:
Even if it is a scam, I think it's a good thing, if it serves as a life lesson. First-hand experience (of being scammed) is the best educator. Think of it as a $10 inoculation shot. That's pretty cheap if it can buy you a modicum of prudence and caution.
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......except this.
You see, most people aren't what you call reasonable, they wont admit they were duped and instead will lash out at any real attempts to bring android to the desktop, which is a shame since google seems increasingly less likely to do it and developer support for linux distros is at the same level that it always was, low.
TBH its very ironic this is happening right after kickstarter lowered its entry requirements to an all time low.
Hi All, its my first post on XDA, and i must disagree with above comments.
10$ for driver optimized distro of x86 Android is awesome. And this guy looks legit. Its good offer for noobies like me. You can disagree, but that's my personal opinion.
check engadget 2013/05/13 iconsole-tv-x86-android-game-console
>10$ for driver optimized distro of x86 Android is awesome
For a con, small amount (and large numbers of marks) is best. People won't bother with due diligence for a paltry few bucks, and once it's sprung, they can brush off the loss and not come after you. Manipulate risk-reward ratio to have high upside and low downside, and you will always net suckers looking for "awesome" deals. Promise them many too-good-to-be-true features, throw in important-sounding buzzwords and jargons, but don't get pinned down on details like the what, how and when. Third, add urgency: buy now to lock in that special deal (free lifetime upgrades).
I'm not saying it's a con, but all the trademark signatures are there.
Here's an exercise in probability for you: Do some reading on hypervisor, and find out how many consumer-level hypervisors are out there (answer: zero). Now, figure on the likelihood of this happening on a 2GB RAM, 32GB flash device--actually, any x86 device--with install as simple as booting from a USB stick, and from a startup with no known tech pedigree and a CEO whose best claim to fame is that he founded a phone blog.
So why not wait until it's shipped, supposedly by year-end? But that means I'll miss out on that "awesome" free lifetime upgrade! Heck, it's only $10. I'll pay it and take my chances.
>check engadget 2013/05/13 iconsole-tv-x86-android-game-console
Check further to find its specs, or evidence of it actually shipping (reported shipping date was Sep 2013). Where's the online support forum? Is it a secret? Please, do tell!
While I agree that this looks like a scam, I'm curious what you consider to be a "consumer-level" hypervisor. That sounds like a very careful attempt to create class that sounds like it should have something in it but doesn't. Is Client Hyper-V not "consumer-level" because it's only in the higher Win8 editions? Is the PS3 hypervisor not "consumer-level" because it's buried in the console and not (supposed to be) tweakable by the user? Is Xen not "consumer-level" because it's on Linux?
Seriously, of all the things that smell wrong with this idea, the hypervisor is the least of my concerns by a large margin. There's no problem with the idea of using a hypervisor here. I'm sure the PS3 isn't the only game console to use one, for example.
>I'm curious what you consider to be a "consumer-level" hypervisor
A better choice of words would be standalone hypervisor, or perhaps (noob) user-installable hypervisor. The examples you mentioned are either baked into the product/OS, or are highly technical undertakings that are outside the realm of normal users, let alone being installable "on a bootable USB stick." I'm not into the console-mod scene, but I doubt there is a thriving PS3 mod community to run alternative OS'es.
Yeah not only its not his "first post" on XDA, but I seen plenty of new accounts on other sites defending this project which I have to say couldn't come up at a better time to ensure consoleos is not debunked, though chris roberts himself seems to have been banned from the androidx86 group last time I checked.
Whatevs, the projects seem to have lost its momentum so I doubt it will reach its goal.
Well I am simply a baker of this thing and was looking for some community comment on it. I have some time to cancel my 10$ input if this turn up to be a scam. I'm from Poland and it's not so small amount of money here. Do not judge people like that MGREX. Bann for looking for looking some more reliable input LOL hope not. I really like to get this conversation going so I can judge if this is worth my money.
Wysłane z mojego Nexus 4 przy użyciu Tapatalka
>Bann for looking for looking some more reliable input LOL hope not. I really like to get this conversation going so I can judge if this is worth my money.
You don't need "reliable input," just exercise some common sense and ask the questions. Do some actual thinking yourself, rather than just rely on others to do it for you.
The supposed startup Multi-Media Ventures (MMV) has a track record to follow. It prominently claimed to have shipped its iConsole.tv ("the most powerful Android console") last year, then look for evidence. Where are iConsole.tv's support forums, developer chatter, downloads (patches / code samples / drivers / documentation / etc), hardware specs? There is nothing on the iConsole.tv site or from a Google search.
The hardware is vaguely said to have a "fourth-generation Core processor with Iris graphics," but won't specify the exact CPU. There isn't even a picture of the shipping unit. On ConsoleOS's KS page, MMV claimed that the hardware is "out of stock," but on the iConsole.tv page, no OOS is mentioned, and it is only too willing to take your $699 (it took me straight to Paypal).
There are other red flags that scream SCAM! for those who bother to dig into MMV and C. Price's history. From Price's linkedin profile, he doesn't have any programming/engineering background. Nowhere on the ConsoleOS page is there any mention of his team, let alone their tech background. The entire site is basically one big sales pitch, with no substance.
Being mentioned on a popular blog is not proof of anything. Blogs don't have the manpower or the investigative expertise to verify in-depth. Most won't even do cursory fact-checking. Their overriding want is content to fill the space and keep the page hits coming. They need massive quantity of content everyday, and perforce quality takes a back seat.
That said, if you want further veracity and can't/won't do it yourself, you can get help from a blog (or blogs). Contact a blogger from a reputable blog, explain your case, along with red flags found in MMV's spiel, and ask if s/he can look further into it. Unmasking a scam would be a pretty good scoop, and as long as it doesn't take too much effort, the blogger will likely accommodate. Suggest Ars Technica, The Verge, and/or Engadget.
ConsoleOS is supposedly pretty far along, with claims of having reached "Developer Release 1" on 25 target platforms. I don't think it is unreasonable to ask for a PoC video from C. Price, do you? Would be nice to see boot-up from one of those said devices, and some of those fancy buzzword features like InstaSwitch and WindowsFlinger in action, no?
Cons work on people's greed for "good deals" and laziness to fact-check, both of which are under your control. Exercise your responsibility.
There *was* actually a pretty big homebrew scene around the PS3 hypervisor (did you miss the whole "OtherOS" fiasco where Sony initially sold it with the ability to run Linux via the hypervisor, then tried to block that feature, then some enterprising hackers added it back and in the process broke the console's security wide open? I don't even have any Sony stuff but it was all over the news I was following ~3 years ago, though admittedly I follow a lot of security news). I haven't heard much about it recently, but the ability to install an run your own Linux system on the console was considered a real plus to some people (hard to get a Cell processor to play with, otherwise).
With that said, while I still don't buy the argument about the technical difficulty of using a hypervisor (seriously, not that hard; hard to write one from scratch, yes, hard to employ an existing one, no), the rest of your comments seems likely spot-on. This is a cool idea and seems like it should be possible (all the best scams are...) but I'm very skeptical that it's actually happening.
I am in the same boat as mcksz. I do hope MMV delivers a dual boot solution for my Asus Transformer T100 (fingers crossed). The idea of Dual boot is very valid. I have tried multiple emulators and have quickly come to the conclusion that dual boot is the only solution for moderately powered Baytrail based 2-in-1. For me "Windows for work and Android for Play" is a very powerful solution.
@MGREX, by Chris Roberts, you mean Christoper Price? if so, he is still very much active on the the Android-x86 forum. Although, he is taking a beating in the Android-x86 forum from some of the skeptics
From my viewpoint, they are a startup and were building a dedicated android console and there was no market for it. Now it appears that they are pivoting to delivering ConsoleOS for the desktop and will try to convince the OEMs to ship dual boot solution. I am skeptical of the overall business plan as well... as both Google and Microsoft have shown no interest in a dual boot solution.
Thanks
Rockmeister
MGREX said:
Yeah not only its not his "first post" on XDA, but I seen plenty of new accounts on other sites defending this project which I have to say couldn't come up at a better time to ensure consoleos is not debunked, though chris roberts himself seems to have been banned from the androidx86 group last time I checked.
Whatevs, the projects seem to have lost its momentum so I doubt it will reach its goal.
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>I do hope MMV delivers a dual boot solution for my Asus Transformer T100 (fingers crossed).
The notion of investing--what you're doing--with "fingers crossed" is so adorably naive that I just had to grin a little. As said from the outset, I think it's a good idea for everybody to experience firsthand at being a scam victim, because only then will they learn that not every claim on the Internet is true. In that, I approve of this so-called venture SPECIFICALLY because of its proclivity to go pear-shaped, and $10 is cheap for a life lesson learned.
I wholly understand that there is no argument that can sway you and those like you, because you've made up your mind on the "good deal." Selective input kicks in, and good luck getting through your blinder. Plus, in the absence of hard facts--C. Price had provided zip thus far--you fill in the gaps to fit what you wanted to believe. The best scams let the marks do most of the work.
>From my viewpoint, they are a startup and were building a dedicated android console and there was no market for it.
MMV claims that it shipped the developer "unit 00". Regardless of how good or bad the reception was, the support has to be in place. You don't just ship a dev kit and kiss off your developers because of poor sales. Do you understand this basic concept? This isn't a retail buy. Dev kits REQUIRE support. Yet there is absolutely zilch on iConsole.tv; the site is totally bare. We're not even talking about support, just basic info. Don't you think this is a cause for concern? What does it take for you to open your eyes? No need to answer, that was rhetorical.
Let's assume for the moment that MMV is legit, and iConsole.tv actually had shipped. Would you ever invest in a company that failed so utterly in its first venture that it "skipped town" on existing users, to jump on a second venture? If there's no support for iConsole.tv, isn't that a good indication of the support ConsoleOS will get?
Yeah, I know, whoosh. I hear nothing, I see nothing.
BTW, I don't blame C. Price at all. He's only taking what people gives him. If simpletons want to hand over money for dubious claims, he's more than welcome to it! Heck, checking in now, I see the new goal is $125K! GO CHRISTOPHER GO! DRINK THEIR MILKSHAKE!
The upshot about this is that it's all legal. Before Kickstarter, shenanigans like this are called securities fraud, which can entail major jail time. Now, Price & cohort can simply cop any convenient excuse--"the dog ate my code"--and they'll be in the clear. Personally, I think it's fine. You can't coddle the lazy and the gullible, who thinks "crossing fingers" is the way to invest. Let there be blood.
e.mote
I understand that we are poles apart on this issue. But isn't *all* kickstarter campaign based on certain amount of faith? Hence it comes to whether you have faith in MMV/Christoper Price (or not) in their ability to deliver on the 25 devices for the $50,000 pledge. I am willing to believe that the they would make good on their promise and also provide patches back to AOSP code base.
You think of it as an investment/securities fraud... but believe me, there are others that look at it as an supporting a campaign to get more android devices on the Intel platform of their choice and see it as a win-win. Categorizing other view points as "naive,gullible,lazy and simpletons" does not make you smart.
Currently they are nearing 43K and assuming that they reach their goal, we can revisit this thread in 63 days! Until then I will refrain from responding to this thread.
Peace!!!
Rockmeister
e.mote said:
>I do hope MMV delivers a dual boot solution for my Asus Transformer T100 (fingers crossed).
The notion of investing--what you're doing--with "fingers crossed" is so adorably naive that I just had to grin a little. As said from the outset, I think it's a good idea for everybody to experience firsthand at being a scam victim, because only then will they learn that not every claim on the Internet is true. In that, I approve of this so-called venture SPECIFICALLY because of its proclivity to go pear-shaped, and $10 is cheap for a life lesson learned.
I wholly understand that there is no argument that can sway you and those like you, because you've made up your mind on the "good deal." Selective input kicks in, and good luck getting through your blinder. Plus, in the absence of hard facts--C. Price had provided zip thus far--you fill in the gaps to fit what you wanted to believe. The best scams let the marks do most of the work.
>From my viewpoint, they are a startup and were building a dedicated android console and there was no market for it.
MMV claims that it shipped the developer "unit 00". Regardless of how good or bad the reception was, the support has to be in place. You don't just ship a dev kit and kiss off your developers because of poor sales. Do you understand this basic concept? This isn't a retail buy. Dev kits REQUIRE support. Yet there is absolutely zilch on iConsole.tv; the site is totally bare. We're not even talking about support, just basic info. Don't you think this is a cause for concern? What does it take for you to open your eyes? No need to answer, that was rhetorical.
Let's assume for the moment that MMV is legit, and iConsole.tv actually had shipped. Would you ever invest in a company that failed so utterly in its first venture that it "skipped town" on existing users, to jump on a second venture? If there's no support for iConsole.tv, isn't that a good indication of the support ConsoleOS will get?
Yeah, I know, whoosh. I hear nothing, I see nothing.
BTW, I don't blame C. Price at all. He's only taking what people gives him. If simpletons want to hand over money for dubious claims, he's more than welcome to it! Heck, checking in now, I see the new goal is $125K! GO CHRISTOPHER GO! DRINK THEIR MILKSHAKE!
The upshot about this is that it's all legal. Before Kickstarter, shenanigans like this are called securities fraud, which can entail major jail time. Now, Price & cohort can simply cop any convenient excuse--"the dog ate my code"--and they'll be in the clear. Personally, I think it's fine. You can't coddle the lazy and the gullible, who thinks "crossing fingers" is the way to invest. Let there be blood.
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Click to collapse