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Ok first and foremost this is not just another post of someone complaining, in no way am i trying to offend or criticize this new device...these are simply observations made by a previous HTC owner (MDA/Herald/Wing) me...
I understand that the open source to "create" applications is fairly new not to mention all us G1 owners (ive had mine for lil more then a month). My concern is why are we seeing such "simple" programing in applications and things tht in reality none of us would ever use? Not to mention graphics what is going on...Look i have not created any nor have taken the time to even try to create applications, and if you or someone you know has, then my hats off to you, i envy you for knowing how and taking the time to...what im saying is why do all these new applications have so many bugs and in my opinion (cause that is all it is) are sub-par...i know its not really fair to compare to any other device on the market since it is the first of its kind, but im getting a little skeptical...am i alone in this? i find myself checking the android market every hour hoping for some sign to motivate me, but nothing so far aside from the obvious winners (youtube,maps,imeem,wheather channel etc...)...ill shut up now i sincerely was not trying to stir things up, and know/knew when i purcased the G1 it was the first of its kind and would probably take time to show its full potential, i just thought there were some things google had up its sleeve that were ready...does anyone have any insight or knowledge of better things to come...?
timace said:
Ok first and foremost this is not just another post of someone complaining, in no way am i trying to offend or criticize this new device...these are simply observations made by a previous HTC owner (MDA/Herald/Wing) me...
I understand that the open source to "create" applications is fairly new not to mention all us G1 owners (ive had mine for lil more then a month). My concern is why are we seeing such "simple" programing in applications and things tht in reality none of us would ever use? Not to mention graphics what is going on...Look i have not created any nor have taken the time to even try to create applications, and if you or someone you know has, then my hats off to you, i envy you for knowing how and taking the time to...what im saying is why do all these new applications have so many bugs and in my opinion (cause that is all it is) are sub-par...i know its not really fair to compare to any other device on the market since it is the first of its kind, but im getting a little skeptical...am i alone in this? i find myself checking the android market every hour hoping for some sign to motivate me, but nothing so far aside from the obvious winners (youtube,maps,imeem,wheather channel etc...)...ill shut up now i sincerely was not trying to stir things up, and know/knew when i purcased the G1 it was the first of its kind and would probably take time to show its full potential, i just thought there were some things google had up its sleeve that were ready...does anyone have any insight or knowledge of better things to come...?
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Personally, I find the plethora of apps encouraging, yes, some are more useful than others but the wide range of effort is fan-flippin-tastic.
MY biggest observation is that the Market place needs some severe MODERATOR intervention... the one star "i is first u goons" and "this app suks (because I am too stupid to read the intro to figure out what it is for) really really really needs to be cleaned up/out. (A perfect example is the UTC clock... it does EXACTLY what it says, true, the numbers in the display look like they are from a missile silo, but hey, it is a tribute to the UTC heritage...anyway, people bag on it because they have no idea why, what, or anything else about it... morons)
[/rant]
--M
demontefixo said:
Personally, I find the plethora of apps encouraging, yes, some are more useful than others but the wide range of effort is fan-flippin-tastic.
MY biggest observation is that the Market place needs some severe MODERATOR intervention... the one star "i is first u goons" and "this app suks (because I am too stupid to read the intro to figure out what it is for) really really really needs to be cleaned up/out. (A perfect example is the UTC clock... it does EXACTLY what it says, true, the numbers in the display look like they are from a missile silo, but hey, it is a tribute to the UTC heritage...anyway, people bag on it because they have no idea why, what, or anything else about it... morons)
[/rant]
--M
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i agree "first" comments are riduculous, and if you dont like the application from descrption then dont install it...positive criticism is more then welcome but "this sucks" is getting on my nerves...
timace said:
Ok first and foremost this is not just another post of someone complaining, in no way am i trying to offend or criticize this new device...these are simply observations made by a previous HTC owner (MDA/Herald/Wing) me...
I understand that the open source to "create" applications is fairly new not to mention all us G1 owners (ive had mine for lil more then a month). My concern is why are we seeing such "simple" programing in applications and things tht in reality none of us would ever use? Not to mention graphics what is going on...Look i have not created any nor have taken the time to even try to create applications, and if you or someone you know has, then my hats off to you, i envy you for knowing how and taking the time to...what im saying is why do all these new applications have so many bugs and in my opinion (cause that is all it is) are sub-par...i know its not really fair to compare to any other device on the market since it is the first of its kind, but im getting a little skeptical...am i alone in this? i find myself checking the android market every hour hoping for some sign to motivate me, but nothing so far aside from the obvious winners (youtube,maps,imeem,wheather channel etc...)...ill shut up now i sincerely was not trying to stir things up, and know/knew when i purcased the G1 it was the first of its kind and would probably take time to show its full potential, i just thought there were some things google had up its sleeve that were ready...does anyone have any insight or knowledge of better things to come...?
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Click to collapse
i agree with you; even though i love this phone there are a lot of things i dislike about it. the only advice i can give to you is to be patient. the phone has 'officially' been out for a little under a month and there is already so much improvements to it:
- 2 updates have already been rolled out,
- we have found a Root and a way to manually update it.
- we are beginning to see system folders moved to sdcard to save space(even though the phone should have came with more memory)
apps on the market are getting better i don't if you have seen the app "bubble". bubble is a basic bubble level that uses the accelerometer to see if something is level and changes as the phone changes orientation it may seem like a simple app but it shows that Google came come out with an update that uses the accelerometer to change orientation.
- first signs of on screen keyboards like akeyui, a7email and a7sms.
all of these improvements in about 3 weeks and tons more to come idk what anybody can complain about besides hardware issues
just wait come Jan 2009 the G1 isnt going to be anything like it is today.
demontefixo said:
Personally, I find the plethora of apps encouraging, yes, some are more useful than others but the wide range of effort is fan-flippin-tastic.
MY biggest observation is that the Market place needs some severe MODERATOR intervention... the one star "i is first u goons" and "this app suks (because I am too stupid to read the intro to figure out what it is for) really really really needs to be cleaned up/out. (A perfect example is the UTC clock... it does EXACTLY what it says, true, the numbers in the display look like they are from a missile silo, but hey, it is a tribute to the UTC heritage...anyway, people bag on it because they have no idea why, what, or anything else about it... morons)
[/rant]
--M
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yeah there need to be some serious clean up in th commenting sections, some of these comments might discourage people from developing apps for the G1, i think comments should strictly about the apps and not about being 1st or 151st, or bashing other commenters, and people definitely should not comment on an app the don't know how to use.
however developers should include directions on how to use their apps so people do not have to rely on commenting to try and figure out what it does and how it does it.
The point is the development muscle that has been put in the device is minor.I feel like the market is made by kids or teenagers that stopped uploading on youtube and are writing apps using ready made lego kits (APIs). The apps in the market are all basic stuff. There is not even a Divx player for this device available but 5 Video players using the Google provided APIs to play mp4 which only play SOME mp4 files not all.
I love the sliding, bubble and Gmail on it but I cant name too many more things I love. Not even a Navi that works properly. I really cant think of anything else I love about it. No office, word, excel, PDF, flash, divx. The SMS system is grouped together. The actual phone keyboard is beyond basic with no options. There are simply too many bugs on the phone operation itself like bluetooth etc.
Time flies google, we need apps that have more than 10 man-hours of software programming spent on it. Lets stop the growth of many timers and alarms in the market and get some real stuff out there. Microsoft has probably put in millions of development hours into WM and it was not until now that I realized this.
brooklynite said:
The point is the development muscle that has been put in the device is minor.I feel like the market is made by kids or teenagers that stopped uploading on youtube and are writing apps using ready made lego kits (APIs). The apps in the market are all basic stuff. There is not even a Divx player for this device available but 5 Video players using the Google provided APIs to play mp4 which only play SOME mp4 files not all.
I love the sliding, bubble and Gmail on it but I cant name too many more things I love. Not even a Navi that works properly. I really cant think of anything else I love about it. No office, word, excel, PDF, flash, divx. The SMS system is grouped together. The actual phone keyboard is beyond basic with no options. There are simply too many bugs on the phone operation itself like bluetooth etc.
Time flies google, we need apps that have more than 10 man-hours of software programming spent on it. Lets stop the growth of many timers and alarms in the market and get some real stuff out there. Microsoft has probably put in millions of development hours into WM and it was not until now that I realized this.
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muscle...DiVix...kids...office...flash...basic...bugs
words that stood out and i DEFINATELY agree
as i said before patience is the key here
the reason why there aren't many good programs out right know is because they are still in development, there are some apps that won google's app contest that are not on the market because they are still under development. developers take their to try and come out with a bug free app and you criticize them for taking to long however if they rush it and get it out with SOME bugs people crucify them. how long did you think it took for divx or flash to be developed for other phones?
why do people expect a phone thats been out for under a month to have the same capabilities as phones that been out for years?
how many phone do you know had divx support right out of the box or even one month after release? i estimate that divx support will be out before the end of the year.
i agree that apps on the market are going the the hole, especially with millions of the same type of apps, c'mon how many different weather apps do we need, how many background apps is necessary. but you got to admit out of the hundreds of apps on the market there are some good ones.
I'm waiting with great anticipation on the games for the g1. Sure i want cut copy and paste, document reader, full video player, full file manager and task manager as well as others but i'm dying to play nes games and others on this phone. The market is pretty lame in the games department but hey i got pacman, solitaire, and a few others free so i'm not gonna complain. I think the apps are very promising and there are a wide variety of them. Granted none of the crucial apps are out yet but i have quite a few on g1 that i love and got em all for free!!! We just have to be patient, i knew going in i would have to be.
All the apps are free. The hardware has only been in people's hands for a few weeks (at most). A serious developer, wanting to create the exact apps we're all hoping for, needs a heck of a lot more time. The SDK was fine, but any serious developer is going to want to log a lot of hours with a physical device (or several) to finalize the product.
And they're not going to do all that, for free.
This device has huge potential, and the reason we're seeing amaturish apps is because the only people who are willing to play around with creating apps for free are mostly hobbyists who want feedback to further their skills.
I predict that once the payment system is set up for the Market, the apps you're all stomping your feet about are going to show up.
The programs we're talking about are complex, writing them and testing them is time consuming, and I assume that they're going to be larger than the apps we're seeing now. It's entirely possible that some of these apps are almost finished, but are waiting for SD card loading to be added to the functionality before they can release them. Some may even be delayed by the announcement of the virtual keyboard -- they may want to integrate that for the launch of their apps.
I think two things need to happen before we're going to see the apps we all want.
-Pay system on Android Market
-The Ability for Apps to be installed and run from the SD card.
Until those two things happen, the App Store is going to be like it is. And it's also time you guys thought about something. The apps that are "missing" were never a secret, most of the complaints I see are about things that were known well before launch, or discovered the first week people had it in hand. If you didn't read up, that's your fault. If you read up and assumed things would be taken care of within one to two months (something no one promised you) that's also your fault.
I'll predict something for you right now, in light of the economy and everything else, it'll be 6 months to a year before HALF the apps we want are available and working. Now, that's just my estimate, but if that sounds "too long" to wait, then I'd invest in another phone rather than spending the next 6 months posting complaints like "why isn't _____ done yet? And where's the ______ app?!!"
Just my 2 cents
I have already heard many apps have been developed but the developers are waiting for the pay system which has already been annoucnced and is coming 3 months after launch.
I am similar to you... give it time and you will see the best things you have ever seen. I mean look at Linux... they have some awesome apps on most linux flavors that make me dual boot into linux just to have. I think this device will be the same as this was the entire purpose.
Google is updating features all the time in the git directory and it won't be long before they fix the main issues and then the developers will be looking at new things to give us.
So far the barcode readers alone seem like such a huge advantage as I haven't seen them on mobile devices before(at least none that worked)
brooklynite said:
The point is the development muscle that has been put in the device is minor.I feel like the market is made by kids or teenagers that stopped uploading on youtube and are writing apps using ready made lego kits (APIs). The apps in the market are all basic stuff. There is not even a Divx player for this device available but 5 Video players using the Google provided APIs to play mp4 which only play SOME mp4 files not all.
I love the sliding, bubble and Gmail on it but I cant name too many more things I love. Not even a Navi that works properly. I really cant think of anything else I love about it. No office, word, excel, PDF, flash, divx. The SMS system is grouped together. The actual phone keyboard is beyond basic with no options. There are simply too many bugs on the phone operation itself like bluetooth etc.
Time flies google, we need apps that have more than 10 man-hours of software programming spent on it. Lets stop the growth of many timers and alarms in the market and get some real stuff out there. Microsoft has probably put in millions of development hours into WM and it was not until now that I realized this.
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Well you said my answer in your own post. The device has been out less than a month. That's nowhere near enough time to make those killer apps you're talking about. To google's credit they did put in things like street view with the compass mode and there are those apps you've talked about. It takes MONTHS to do real software developement so you're going to keep seeing more and more alarms and stuff until then.
seriously, does ANYBODY give a ratsass or even use streetview?
They should have made sure all the media stuff and the email was topnotcxh.
I agree 100% with the first post! Google should have prepaired Android better. There is a lot of competition out there and I would say by what I've seen so far they are light years behind. I did not expect that with all the money in the world Google couldn't release product that was better polished. I have put my G1 back in its box and I'm back to my unlocked Tilt, what sucks is going back to the old screen and Edge but its functinality that I need. I wish they made some kind of task aplication that I can put on the screen kind of likr thr picture frame that would display my tasks for the day. I have a Motorola ROKR E2 that runs Linux and there are more useful stuff for it out there. I desagree we have to wait untill we start paying for apliications, I believe Google can afford providing us with free functional software as more and more people will be using their services.
i love my g1, but i agree with these people that google didn't do enough...and i hope they're working to fix it.
i think that their whole "leave it in the hands of developers" approach was probably a mistake. they should have made all the basic applications like they did but also gone a step further to spice up the phone. i hope that google, in the new few updates, incorporates some more stuff, like OUTLOOK SYNC (i wuld love it if they changed the google calendar sync for windows into just google sync and have it sync everything with outlook....funambol right now sucks i have like 80 of each contact!)
they also should have made a GOOD video recorder / player, and even a better music player. they're trying to beat apple at multimedia, and are failing miserably.
they should add a decent on-screen keyboard and maybe even a task manager...or make it only have like 4 open tasks in the backgroudn...because i've noticed my g1 slowing down a lot after having a few apps open.
google should add a manual update button...i'm still on RC28 because i dont feel like installing the modified rc30 or plugging it in to update. have a freaking "UPDATE" button in the system info thing or something.
i think google needs more than 3 home screens...i've already filled all of mine up. they also should have added more widgets, like the guy above me said.
SELECTING TEXT SUCKS. i have to use the trackball to select a ltter of a word...on my windows mobile i could just tap on where i wanted it to be and at least it would get me within 1 or 2 letters...if i tap on a word on the g1 nothing happens!
we need to be able to install stuff to the sd card!
i think i'm missing a lot of things but i've only had the phone for 2 days and i've noticed all that...i hope developers DO step in if google is too stupid not to add more basic functionality.
/rant
Look at it this way currently there is no way to charge for apps that are developed. This is why we are seeing nothing but apps programed by independant programers some of which are good and some of which are useless. Once companies can charge for apps then it will make sence to put money into the development of better more porfessional apps. My suggestion is to just hold off on passing judgement untill the market is finished to where people that spend money in development can recoup those losses. I do think that the market place should have been finished before launch but what can you do.
coffeboy23 said:
Look at it this way currently there is no way to charge for apps that are developed. This is why we are seeing nothing but apps programed by independant programers some of which are good and some of which are useless. Once companies can charge for apps then it will make sence to put money into the development of better more porfessional apps. My suggestion is to just hold off on passing judgement untill the market is finished to where people that spend money in development can recoup those losses. I do think that the market place should have been finished before launch but what can you do.
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Agaqin, super lame of google.
We can get a bunch of usless wank programs, but not proepr ones, becasue they don't have the pay market ready.
Also, I think that certain things like exchange and a proper email client shoudl have been included.
And remember most people are new to development, don't know how many "this is my first try" apps I have seen. When you get that one that charges 20 bucks for the app... you will get another developer who will release it free and just ask for donations... I suggest donating whatever you can to the one that gives it free.
Henchman said:
Agaqin, super lame of google.
We can get a bunch of usless wank programs, but not proepr ones, becasue they don't have the pay market ready.
Also, I think that certain things like exchange and a proper email client shoudl have been included.
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Click to collapse
google isnt the one entirely in charge of the market... tmobile is the one wanting money
neoobs said:
google isnt the one entirely in charge of the market... tmobile is the one wanting money
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No, but it was google who shoudl ahve made sure that the basics were coveredf well.
The Camera I'm sure can take greta pics, but the controls suck.
The email is severly lacking.
No streaming video.
And they shoudl ahve elarnt form the iPhoen release, that push email fro MsExcahnge should have been there fromt he getgo.
Or the should have built a BB app, just like you can get for WinMo.
No, they focused on teenagers, not professionals.
neoobs said:
google isnt the one entirely in charge of the market... tmobile is the one wanting money
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no....google is not taking any money but is giving 30% of all apps sold to the carriers...tmobile might be the one "wanting" money but they have no control over the app store at all.
I am not a developer, but I was reading up on experiences that developers have with the Android Market.
Then I also came across a website that showed some statistics about paid apps and they were shocking. I can't remember the source right now, but it said that the Apple AppStore is a $200 million business per month, where the Android Market is only $5 millions per month. This is very discouraging for developers who are in it for money (usually companies who have the resources to create Games and more Complex Apps and have the ability to Partner with Services).
One developers said that he only got 23 downloads, in the first month. He mentioned then that over half of them used the 24 hour refund (could that be that those were leachers who downloaded the app and threw it on a P2P channel?), eventually he ended up with 11 sales. One guy sent him an email and said that $4.99 is too much to ask for, which I think is not unreasonable considering that there are many apps in the Apple AppStore that cost much more than that. Whether or not his app is useful or not to most users is sadly unknown by me. But looking at his perspective I think I would start developing apps for the iOS, who wouldn't that wants to make money?
The problem with these figures is that developers will eventually stop developing paid apps and the quality of the Android Market (from now on referred to Market) apps vs Apple AppStore (from now on referred to AppStore) apps will extremely decline. And there will be either many low rating apps in the Market or there will be an increase in the amount of Apps submitted the the Market.
We all want good Apps, Apple found out Apps are the number 1 reason a Plattform has success. Android has Google behind it which makes up for a good amount of Great apps and there are very good developers here that are not in it for the money, but eventually it all comes down to making money when it comes to professional businesses offering a product. Look at the games that are offered on the iOS platform vs Android, you can't tell me that an iPhone 3G or a 2nd Gen iPod has better graphics performance than some of the higher-end Android devices.
Also, are there too many free alternatives in the Android Market that the AppStore doesn't have? There are also many free apps in the AppStore.
What can be done about this? - Please post your ideas, since I am not a developer I am not the pro here when it comes to this issue I am asking for your opinion.
However, I am a business student so I have some insights of how companies will react to this as mentioned above.
The few ideas I have would be:
1. Google could increase the quality of design of the API and give different APIs to paid vs free Apps.
2. Sadly I have to mention it because of all the Leachers and then P2P distributors, remove the 24 hour refund policy.
3. Google to hire more developers in house who are paid and create free apps that can compete with the AppStore (which would cost Google a fortune). Maybe then charge a small amount for Google Voice to do some financial damage report.
4. Change the Markets way how people pay for apps? I noticed that in the past on my iPhone the decision to actually PAY for an app was much easier and faster for me, I didn't even bother to look for a free alternative.
5. Try to Market Android more towards people who are less geeks (who know where and how to find a free solution to the app they need), as in change the look of Android and make it much more simple for the average Joe day to day user (which I would hate because that means remove or hide many of the great features that make Android what I like so much about it and go back to a more primitive system like the iOS4). And tell hardware manufacturers to create more shiny phones.
--> Since most people who don't know how to get free alternatives, or who don't know and don't have the time to learn how to find free alternatives are people that are buying a product for the lifestyle and to show off (iPhone).
What are YOUR ideas to fix this issue? - Thank you for everyone posting solutions.
I don't think this is something we should worry about.
First, Android is open-source and many enthusiasts give their applications free of charge, which is not the case with Apple's closed OS. That is why about 65% of all apps in Market are free, and only 35% paid. In Appstore, about 70% are paid, only 30% free. Statistics: http://androidheadlines.com/2010/09/app-store-vs-android-market-how-much-is-paid-for.html.
Secondly, you'll find that Market currently supports purchases in only 13 markets while the App Store does so in 90. These numbers will change as time passes by and more markets will be included, but I'm sure that Android will always be a platform with much more free apps than iOS, and that's the beauty of Android.
As far as I'm aware the developers have a say regarding that 24 hour refund policy. An application can be made to be non-refundable if they choose to.
In comparing developers for iOS and Android, you have to also look at who they are individually. Sure, there are many apps developed across the board for all mobile devices, but I think the core of the Android Market are individuals who develop apps just for the sake of developing apps. They enjoy what they do and they would do it regardless of profit.
Of course you have a few that try to make money, but I believe they are the exception rather than the rule.
I mean no offense when I say this, but I believe that the iPhone attracts a very different type of user than Android does. Most people I personally know that use the iPhone do so more out of status and pretentiousness than its own usefulness. Many do not even know the majority of things they could do with the iPhone. Those I know who use Android use it because they root it and do their own modifications, overclocking, etc.
With this in mind, I believe that Android apps are generally created by a different kind of developer for a different kind of user.
shinji257 said:
As far as I'm aware the developers have a say regarding that 24 hour refund policy. An application can be made to be non-refundable if they choose to.
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We have absolutely no say in whether or not out apps are refunded. If I showed you the numbers of instant refunds you'd puke. And the OP states $200 million to $5 million which is ridiculously off. I believe Google just reported that they passed $1 billion in sales (profit) from the Android Market. Either way, it's way more than $5 million a month.
All that said I personally am happy with what I have been able to do with the Market. I expected a little better on my most recent app but it takes time for people to get word of a new app. That's pretty much the problem I've found. It's hard to get noticed. But I still think it's pretty good. There is a lot I absolutely hate about the Market and a bunch of things I like about it. I'd still rather develop for Android and ironically, none of the apps I have created would even work on iPhone. Two are root apps and one requires a modification of the browser which is not allowed on iPhone (for no apparent good reason, I might add).
I am glad to hear that this isn't as big of an issue as I read online, it would be sad to see a great plattform to be hurten, as you can see with the WebOS.
As for not getting recognized, a few tips I have about that is not to rely too much on people finding your app in the market, but rather advertise it yourself, use your facebook and twitter and even this forum (if the forum policy allow that, I am not sure on that again since I am not a developer). I love the QR codes, I actually see many of them in bathroom stalls and other places, and I always check on them since it's in my curiosity to find out where they get me.
I'm making an extra living off paid apps on the Marketplace.
Oh, and an extra living off free apps with Admob.
So now I'm making 3 livings worth. It's wonderful. I have no complaints.
I mean no offense when I say this, but I believe that the iPhone attracts a very different type of user than Android does. Most people I personally know that use the iPhone do so more out of status and pretentiousness than its own usefulness. Many do not even know the majority of things they could do with the iPhone. Those I know who use Android use it because they root it and do their own modifications, overclocking, etc.
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You're forgetting about Droid users. You'd be surprised how many people own an Android just for status and pretentiousness. It goes both ways. I even know a few people with Androids that don't even know that they have an Android.
1. Google could increase the quality of design of the API and give different APIs to paid vs free Apps.
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Wouldn't that mean closing the source? Or you think people will use opensource platform that only runs free apps over opensource platform that runs both?
I don't think I want closed source OS on my phone, if I did I'd probably use iPhone.
2. Sadly I have to mention it because of all the Leachers and then P2P distributors, remove the 24 hour refund policy.
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Pirates do buy software sometimes, how do you think it gets to P2P networks in the first place? One of them buys it, his friend cracks it and everyone else gets it 4free.
So it wouldn't solve anything, removing the refund would only make legit customers angry if the app doesn't work.
3. Google to hire more developers in house who are paid and create free apps that can compete with the AppStore (which would cost Google a fortune). Maybe then charge a small amount for Google Voice to do some financial damage report.
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I thought google did hire developers and they do create free apps. I don't think competing with appstore is their ultimate goal though, since appstore and iphoneos are completely closed.
Charging for services is something I agree with completely.
They should indeed make certain (not all) services cost money. But they should also keep the software free and open to ensure the quality.
4. Change the Markets way how people pay for apps? I noticed that in the past on my iPhone the decision to actually PAY for an app was much easier and faster for me, I didn't even bother to look for a free alternative.
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It was much easier and faster because apple paid someone to make it easier and faster.
I'm not so sure google is willing to invest money into closed source software, especially when you consider these 3 facts.
1. Closed source software has a limited amount of developers who are working to make it better, faster and more efficient.
2. More developers on a single project means more features, more bugfixes and faster development.
3. Opensource software in general is more secure because everyone can see the source code.
5. Try to Market Android more towards people who are less geeks (who know where and how to find a free solution to the app they need), as in change the look of Android and make it much more simple for the average Joe day to day user (which I would hate because that means remove or hide many of the great features that make Android what I like so much about it and go back to a more primitive system like the iOS4). And tell hardware manufacturers to create more shiny phones.
--> Since most people who don't know how to get free alternatives, or who don't know and don't have the time to learn how to find free alternatives are people that are buying a product for the lifestyle and to show off (iPhone).
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Click to collapse
As I don't like being labeled, I think marketing should be focused on pushing Android for everyone, not just specific groups of people.
User knows what works best for him so let him decide what to buy. Wide selection of devices that share the base operating system is great, but user should decide what type of software he wants to use, not google nor apple.
User should also decide what type of service he wants to use and whether that service is free or paid.
Changing the look of Android to make it more simple is something I'd personally hate, but we should always have options.
It would be great to flash an extremely simple android OS for my grandmother's phone for example, while keeping my VNC and SSH on my own device.
Also, don't think there's much difference between android users and iphone users, they're just people anyway. And there's an equal amount of pirated iphone apps and android apps.
Only real difference is about the OS, where one offers you a choice and another forces you to pay and develops restrictions instead of new features.
What are YOUR ideas to fix this issue? - Thank you for everyone posting solutions.
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Click to collapse
I don't think there is an issue, devs get paid from pushing ads, users are happy with a wide selection of apps. Some services are free some services cost money. Just my 2c
In your opinion what has been better charging for apps or giving them for free with ad support? Also what kind of apps tend to do better with paid/ad based revenue?
Saw a few articles about that in the last few weeks. They talked about applications that have a free ad supported version and a paid ad free. The free version generates the most revenue. Paying seems a big threshold for some and is even impossible in a lot of countries.
Most banners are not intrusive in portrait mode but I do think they are mostly too large in landscape mode.
I do non-ad apps. The two that I have published are $1.00. Who can't afford a buck, really?
Perhaps having to sign-up for Google Checkout stops people from leaning towards the non-free apps.
Rootstonian said:
I do non-ad apps. The two that I have published are $1.00. Who can't afford a buck, really?
Perhaps having to sign-up for Google Checkout stops people from leaning towards the non-free apps.
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Click to collapse
You would be surprised, ppl get defined all the time when trying to buy my app and its only 1.5 lol. Tho I guess there could be more reason why they are declined lol.
Sent from my Nexus One
If youre making a game... id say free version will make more money.
If its a utility... a paid version will make more money because the user wont have the app open for very long or use it very often
Lakers16 said:
If youre making a game... id say free version will make more money.
If its a utility... a paid version will make more money because the user wont have the app open for very long or use it very often
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
According to google docs, the onBackPressed() simple calls finish(). So it would be the same.
Honestly this isnt making any sense, calling onBackPressed() *should* be teh same as pressing the back button, but its not...
Lakers16 said:
If youre making a game... id say free version will make more money.
If its a utility... a paid version will make more money because the user wont have the app open for very long or use it very often
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But if a user does not use it very often it is better to have an ad supported version as the user will not like to pay for it.
As a user, having to sign up for Google checkout did stop me from buying, but I got on it cause I figured out the can bill through my carrier.
But honestly, the thing that really keeps me from buying more apps - and specially games with downloadable content - is the 15 minute refund window.
Most of the times that is not enough for me to figure out if the app or game have this or that bug that could potentially turn me off.
Examples: I bought tapatalk, only to find out it FC on me frequently, at which point I am better off using g the free XDA app.
I also bought PSX4DROID only to find out later that it FC on my device when I change orientation - found out dropping the phone and loosing progress -
Lately I am opting for apps that have a free version or a fully functioning trial.
If I'm going to drop some cash then I want to make sure I'm getting something fully functional which will be supported by the dev.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App
I prefer ad supported apps over paid apps.
Two Reasons,
1) Ad Supported apps are free.
2) I'm only 13 (well almost 14 ) so I can't really pay for apps.
Not to mention a lot of people are broke.
It's all basic Economics (yes, I actually liked economics classes in college).
2 things: Supply and Demand and Economies of Scale
Which boils down to quality vs. quantity. Do you create and make that "KILLER APP" that sells 100,000 copies at a measly $1.00 each? Yeah, I would be happy.
Or do you create 100 "NICE TO HAVE APPS" and sell 1000 copies each at same price?
Still would be happy
I really still think the mobile app market (Android, Windows Mobile, iOS) are still in an infancy stage. Especially when it comes to corporate implementations; whether end-user or in-house.
Syn Ack said:
Not to mention a lot of people are broke.
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Click to collapse
Broke? Explain to me how someone who has sh at least $50 phone eith the majority bring well over this can not afford $1-3 apps?
Do ad supported apps do better then paid? Generally yes, but its no2 bc ppl can't afford it. Fickle had create an environment where any person with a key board csen go out and make an app. Bc of this this the majority are free and crap.
Look at the iphone quality of apps, out far exceeds that of android by far. This had nothing to do eith number of users, but rather bc paid aps actually still on the iphone. Look at the best paid aps on android...less thrn 10k sales that's crap. A company can not operate on that number of sales.
Its all about mentality of the user and supply n demand...
Sent from my Nexus One
I prefer ad supported apps. That way, I can get the app for free, with no hassle on my end, but the dev is still making money. And when it's an app that I really like, I tend to just click the ads a bunch of times.
Hey Xoomers!! We all know this, but its worth repeating...some developers are now showing interest in Android/honeycomb tablets...but in order to keep that support, and to get Ipad quality games and developers on board, we must SUPPORT these developers by actually buying their games and apps and stop the bootlegging!! I know it can be tempting, but why would developers want to Support Android if we are not paying..they would just continue to support Apple..and we will be left with powerful devices with no great games or apps to show for it...Lets show Apple that Android is the new king of the block!!!
Agree with you lets unleash the beast off this tegra
sent from my Motorola XOOM
I want Square Enix on board. I've gotta play Chaos Rings, Final Fantasy 1,2 and 3 on my iPhone... Chaos Rings was a pretty neat mobile RPG.
i just purchased The History great battles medieval, which i have to say looks pretty ugly lol!! But still I dont mind spending the $6.00 bucks, i might like it later But the more support we actually show, the more developers will jump on board, and create better looking games for Tegra. I would love to play resident evil Zombies, need for Speed hot pursuit on our amazing Xoom devices, but its up to us to show that its worth making games for Android. So if we can spend $5.00 on things we don't need, surely we can spend the money to help benefit us as Xoom owners in the long run!!
MRCANNADY said:
Hey Xoomers!! We all know this, but its worth repeating...some developers are now showing interest in Android/honeycomb tablets...but in order to keep that support, and to get Ipad quality games and developers on board, we must SUPPORT these developers by actually buying their games and apps and stop the bootlegging!! I know it can be tempting, but why would developers want to Support Android if we are not paying..they would just continue to support Apple..and we will be left with powerful devices with no great games or apps to show for it...Lets show Apple that Android is the new king of the block!!!
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Click to collapse
I've always paid for my apps. Any lack of developer interest because of bootlegging isn't in any way because of me. Its worth noting that even having to post this speaks volumes of the mindset of "general android users" and gives ios devs that much more fuel.
cwizardtx said:
I've always paid for my apps. Any lack of developer interest because of bootlegging isn't in any way because of me. Its worth noting that even having to post this speaks volumes of the mindset of "general android users" and gives ios devs that much more fuel.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i disagree with your statement..regardless if i posted this or not, developers have already mentioned the fact that bootlegging is a problem with Android owners in general. We have to show developers that we are serious about supporting them. So it's good to show that we are committed to buying apps/games, and that developers will be rewarded for taking the time to develop for us. if we acknowledge the problem and speak about about it, hopefully that will get people on board if they want the better-quality games for Android!
Apple has alot of bootlegging. its just as easy to get a paid app for free on ios devices, as it is on android. I think apple devices have more apps because their is more people to use the product. And devs only have to make it for th Device iPhone Ipad ect. But with anroid you have a little harder time because everything has the android os on it samsung HTC motorola ect.
Ask an ios developer who also produces a like android app which generates more revenue and which gets stolen more.
This is the same argument software developers have had literally for decades. I used to be a producer at a major gaming company and we always claimed that pirating cost us millions of dollars a year. The fact is that it is completely unprovable that there is any loss of revenue at all. If you make an absolutely awesome state-of-the-art game with absolutely unbreakable copy protection you will sell x number of units. If you sell the same game with no copy protection you will still sell x number of units but a bunch of people who didn't pay for it will get it as well because its easy to copy. So regardless, you still make the same amount of money, but you spent a lot more on the DRM licenses so you actually made less profit in the end.
With Android, the number of people who root their device and install pirated apk's is a hugely insignificant number to the overall Android user base, most estimates put it so low that it isnt even trackable. If you choose to not develop for a platform because of pirating, you are throwing money away.
I second the notion of supporting devs, but priacy isn't the primary problem. The biggest problem is market share and time on market. As both of those increase, they will no longer be an issue. This said, it wouldn't hurt to try and cut down priacy and maybe for a free app with a donation option somewhere, use it if its a good app. (Not always obviously, but sometimes is a great start.)
Sent from my Xoom the way it should be, rooted and with SD card.
Appealing to people's better nature is about the same as asking for donations. You aren't gonna get too far.
I think the best anti-piracy approach isn't DRM, but to convert it to a service. You can't pirate a MMOG. Not all software can be tailored to this, but most can, especially in this age of 24x7 connectivity. Software is heading in this direction already, with SaS and of course Da Klowd.
The tough cookie is how to extend the SaS model to media, viz movies and music, given their fundamentally "offline" nature of consumption.
Perhaps the way forward for the movie/music industry is to wrap them in software, eg make them interactive. Say, a piece of music can be played at varying tempo of your choosing, or it can be auto-remixed using templates, or it can be sweetened depending on your mood, etc.
Interactive movie is a tougher row to hoe, since movie watching is mainly a linear experience. But once animation gets to the point of achieving photo-realism, then a movie can conceivably be constructed like a game.
A major weakness of games thus far is lack of pathos. It's hard to be scared, or feel sad or joy, when playing a computer game, as opposed to watching a good movie. Perhaps a movie-game hybrid, with real human actors in intermixed sequences, will achieve this.
I disagree with you. The post by the OP is something like "encouragement" to give MORE SUPPORT to Android developer.
1. To talk more about Android apps to friends and family
2. To contact particular apps developer to create Honeycomb version of their Android apps
3. To contact iOS developers to port their product to Android Honeycomb
4. To create great detailed reviews of Android Honeycomb apps / games and spread the word
cwizardtx said:
I've always paid for my apps. Any lack of developer interest because of bootlegging isn't in any way because of me. Its worth noting that even having to post this speaks volumes of the mindset of "general android users" and gives ios devs that much more fuel.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agree ...
The thing is for people who do not want to buy, they will not buy anyway.
This kind of thing is mentality. No matter what, they will always find away to pirate.
What I always do here at my work is to promote and specifically tell all my friends about Android apps and why they should not pirate them (some of them do pirating).
Come on, the price is not expensive! Really not expensive! I cannot believe people risking their phone by installing illegal version for something worth like $1 or $2.
However, I would love to have options to PERMANENTLY REMOVE / DELETE certain apps from my Google Checkout account!
Yes, not all apps are good ... Sometimes, I regret that I bought "that" app. And now, it is listed in my Google Checkout account
I could do some kind of "donation" by buying "any" good apps or ported apps from iOS, once a month for example I will do this to give support to Android devs. But yeah, I don't do this now because I hate to have long list in my Android Market purchased apps list.
KerryG said:
This is the same argument software developers have had literally for decades. I used to be a producer at a major gaming company and we always claimed that pirating cost us millions of dollars a year. The fact is that it is completely unprovable that there is any loss of revenue at all. If you make an absolutely awesome state-of-the-art game with absolutely unbreakable copy protection you will sell x number of units. If you sell the same game with no copy protection you will still sell x number of units but a bunch of people who didn't pay for it will get it as well because its easy to copy. So regardless, you still make the same amount of money, but you spent a lot more on the DRM licenses so you actually made less profit in the end.
With Android, the number of people who root their device and install pirated apk's is a hugely insignificant number to the overall Android user base, most estimates put it so low that it isnt even trackable. If you choose to not develop for a platform because of pirating, you are throwing money away.
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Click to collapse
Thank you guys for understanding my post. I think Android wants Honeycomb to be more *centralized* like Apple..meaning that developers won't have to worry about making different versions of apps n games since most tabs running honeycomb will have the same base specs. We need let devs know that we are serious about supporting them...The Android family will or has already outgrown Apples fan base..so developers can make money from us but they need to know that most of us will buy their products. You never know who's reading these forums.
I have no idea whether there is a lot or a little piracy on android phones. Unfortunately there will always be a segment of any group willing to justify stealing products or information. Some groups worse than others. My guess that at least on this forum people understand what goes into making an app and respect that. Now being in the video game industry I can attest to piracy especially on the pc. It gets to the point where its almost pointless to produce a variant of a console game on pc. If the drm is too restrictive you get blasted all over th internet. If you don't put a really restrictive drm on them every pc owner wil have bit torrented your game. Very frustrating.
In any case, that does not seem to be the case with android. I think the best formula is to provide a free version to test with limited functionality and sell a full version so the people who want all of the features can get them and support the app devs. Such as docs to go. So long as the programs stay relatively cheaper there not be much incentive pirate.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA Premium App
>My guess that at least on this forum people understand what goes into making an app and respect that.
In that most here have bought a $600-800 gadget, we can say that the demog for this forum have higher disposable income than the norm. Another thing we can say is that some number here are content producers or business owners, so there is more empathy for app devs. In short, those here aren't mainstream people.
I don't think the economics of software pricing will suddenly be lowered to the <$10 variety (as dominated by current phone apps) for the simple reason that software devs haven't decided to work for less money. IOW, TCO will be the same, because cost of production is still the same. The different thing is that the distribution channel now is more democratized, and there'll be more software as services than as packaged e-goods.
The issues of piracy are well-known; no need to rehash them here. Suffice it to say that it will be the same for tabs as it is for PCs.
Part of the problem with our Open Ecosystem is the crowd that it has attracted.
These people who love and kill for 'Open' have had access and use of FOSS(Free Open Source Software) for years - everything just about has been about FOSS.
It's difficult to retrain the mindset of these guys to pay for any software. I am not saying anyone is stealing, I am saying they don't see the current sets of software worthy of $0.99 - the cost is not the factor here, the mind set of FOSS is.
That being said the 'Free' in 'Free Open Source Software' does not mean free from $$$ - it just usually happens to be that way with most software used on an open Linux platform.
That being said, I have purchased every app that I have tried, liked, and a pay version has been available for - there are 10 or so that I don't even have installed any more because I just don't use them (programs designed for 1.5, 1.6, or 2.1 - that don't need to be used any more because features exist).
I get the 'Support Future Development' theory, and would gather to say that most of who do Pirate software really don't understand how a development cycle works, or how you make it profitable. I'd almost bet that 40% of the windows copies that hit this web page a day aren't legit. I'd also say that number is safe and low.
If you want a Free OS - take a bit of time and learn linux (Mint is as easy and Windows) - don't steal from that mean multi billion dollar corporation. Theft causes prices to rise, denying them the sale causes prices to fall and force them to become competitive.
On a side note...
Amazon seems to be actively pushing the Android market with their "Free paid app a day" promotion. My question is now, do the developers still get the money for each download or are they the ones to say "hey, promote my app by making it free for 24 hours"?
I think the Android market will always be the step child but on the other hand it is filled with enthusiasts and real people that are approachable. It's more like a team (see this forum). I am very proud to be a member of this community and I am very tempted to switch to an Android phone when I next have the option for a new phone. I currently have a jailbroken iPhone 3GS and probably paid more on Cydia than on iTunes Also, I have paid for way more apps on the Xoom (and way more money was spent) than all my iPhone apps together!
funnycreature said:
Amazon seems to be actively pushing the Android market with their "Free paid app a day" promotion. My question is now, do the developers still get the money for each download or are they the ones to say "hey, promote my app by making it free for 24 hours"?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, they do get a % of the price of the App, I think they receive 20% when the app is listed for the free app of the day - There are some other stipulations to that though. They get 70%? I believe when the app is purchased normally and Amazon keeps 30% finders fee so to speak, covers CC Processing and Amazon over head.
I would gladly buy the apps if i only could. Like someone already posted, apps are not exactly expensive when you consider the price we have paid for our Xooms.
Only problem is that for some reason Google doesn't offer paid apps in my country
I understand that Market Enabler also doesn't work for wifi only Xoom?
Does anyone know a way how i could buy apps?
Hello guys,
are you one of the android developers pissed off by piracy?
I have about 4000 active illegal users (70%), but my app is without any security checks.
Have you found a solution? I gave up on google security checks, it was too easy to hack. There is something more secure?
I've done a lot of research, but I am searching also for some real experience by xda users.
Thank you!
Well, if you chose to implement in-app purchasing, then I suppose that might solve your problem.
taomorpheus said:
Hello guys,
are you one of the android developers pissed off by piracy?
I have about 4000 active illegal users (70%), but my app is without any security checks.
Have you found a solution? I gave up on google security checks, it was too easy to hack. There is something more secure?
I've done a lot of research, but I am searching also for some real experience by xda users.
Thank you!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you have your own server you could crosscheck the user's google account with your purchase list.
Do it hidden, in multiple places and act delayed if you find out about a pirated version, then it's really hard to crack.
If you talk about your facebook app you could be kinda bad mannered and post that they are using an illegal app on their wall
Of course you'd have to be absolutely sure then
octobclrnts said:
Well, if you chose to implement in-app purchasing, then I suppose that might solve your problem.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can't because a lot of people have already purchased the app in the classic way!
superkoal said:
If you have your own server you could crosscheck the user's google account with your purchase list.
Do it hidden, in multiple places and act delayed if you find out about a pirated version, then it's really hard to crack.
If you talk about your facebook app you could be kinda bad mannered and post that they are using an illegal app on their wall
Of course you'd have to be absolutely sure then
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually this is a really cool idea, can I access to my google account using google api?
superkoal said:
If you have your own server you could crosscheck the user's google account with your purchase list.
Do it hidden, in multiple places and act delayed if you find out about a pirated version, then it's really hard to crack.
If you talk about your facebook app you could be kinda bad mannered and post that they are using an illegal app on their wall
Of course you'd have to be absolutely sure then
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I like this.
taomorpheus said:
Actually this is a really cool idea, can I access to my google account using google api?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have a look at this:
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2245545/accessing-google-account-id-username-via-android
superkoal said:
Have a look at this:
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2245545/accessing-google-account-id-username-via-android
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My Kaspersky Anti-Virus programm says that it is a fishing site.
However, it is STACKOVERFLOW!!!
nikwen said:
My Kaspersky Anti-Virus programm says that it is a fishing site.
However, it is STACKOVERFLOW!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Kaspersky :silly:
taomorpheus said:
I can't because a lot of people have already purchased the app in the classic way!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sent
In my opinion, create some sort of pop up that says "Attention pirated user, I'm glad you love my app as much as I loved making it, but I need to make money off of it. Please officially purchase this app "
Then have an In app purchase option in the pop up. This would make me want to purchase the app if I pirated it. I don't really believe that fighting piracy with DRM does anything but cause harm. You should just try and make the pirated users feel bad and encourage them to buy the app.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using xda app-developers app
v3nturetheworld said:
Sent
In my opinion, create some sort of pop up that says "Attention pirated user, I'm glad you love my app as much as I loved making it, but I need to make money off of it. Please officially purchase this app "
Then have an In app purchase option in the pop up. This would make me want to purchase the app if I pirated it. I don't really believe that fighting piracy with DRM does anything but cause harm. You should just try and make the pirated users feel bad and encourage them to buy the app.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ahah yeah that's a good solution!
I've noticed that most of the pirated users come from Burma, where google play doesn't work. So I think that I will leave the app in this way and create another pro version for the nations that have google play issues!
But... how about implementing a solution like ROM Manager does? I mean, with a separate app and a pirate popup as suggested above? I'm clueless on what technology use to create a licensing APK, but it would be easier even for those people that haven't got Play Store, maybe
Tiwiz
I guess the main app checks if the Lisence app is installed and if installed it checks the key from a database of the license app and checks for the validity of Lisence on the cloud
Sent from my GT-S5302 using Tapatalk 2
Hit Thanx Button if i helped you!
taomorpheus said:
Have you found a solution? I gave up on google security checks, it was too easy to hack. There is something more secure?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Piracy is a "fact of life" for software. And most anti-piracy measures tend to hurt legitimate paid customers (and the dev) more than the pirates.
If you have a good, useful app, those guys in China can hack almost anything. (No offense to China; no Play there, lower income and an anti-IP culture.)
There are a FEW successful devs who have gone to extra-ordinary lengths at the JNI level. I tested, but never turned any JNI anti-hacking code on, because with thousands of paid users on many weird phones and ROMs, I felt it would break for enough people to not be worth it.
If you have an app that needs a server connection, or data updates, and you have some kind of independent registration system, you have a chance too. But that can be a lot of work.
I'd rather spend my time making my app better and supporting customers. My app price is higher than many would like (but I have virtually no paid competition). And because my app is support intensive, I've taken the view that I'm selling support and convenient updates, not an app, so much.
I mostly verify people are customers before supporting them, do as good a job as I can, get good reviews, and people see there is value there for their money. And yes, I get tons of support requests from pirates. Some of them I've converted to customers.
And... regular updates to an app provides value. If pirates want the latest, they keep having to go look for it. (Or do I recall some pirate update service ?) Updates via Play are easy and that ease has value.
All the above said, I do get angry from time to time, mostly at people stealing my time IE support. And the idea of finding a highly effective anti-piracy measure is fascinating.
But almost none of us is without some sin in our life regarding music, movies or software downloading... So I think it's good to consider the pirates' perspectives. Effective antipiracy definitely drastically reduces the user base and the Internet knowledge base and familiarity, and its' questionable as to how much revenue might increase, if at all.
IE, piracy can be seen as free advertising, and an opportunity to show some pirates there are valid reasons why going legitimate might benefit them, or even reduce their guilt level. I've had a few people buy my app and apologize...
mikereidis said:
Piracy is a "fact of life" for software. And most anti-piracy measures tend to hurt legitimate paid customers (and the dev) more than the pirates.
If you have a good, useful app, those guys in China can hack almost anything. (No offense to China; no Play there, lower income and an anti-IP culture.)
There are a FEW successful devs who have gone to extra-ordinary lengths at the JNI level. I tested, but never turned any JNI anti-hacking code on, because with thousands of paid users on many weird phones and ROMs, I felt it would break for enough people to not be worth it.
If you have an app that needs a server connection, or data updates, and you have some kind of independent registration system, you have a chance too. But that can be a lot of work.
I'd rather spend my time making my app better and supporting customers. My app price is higher than many would like (but I have virtually no paid competition). And because my app is support intensive, I've taken the view that I'm selling support and convenient updates, not an app, so much.
I mostly verify people are customers before supporting them, do as good a job as I can, get good reviews, and people see there is value there for their money. And yes, I get tons of support requests from pirates. Some of them I've converted to customers.
And... regular updates to an app provides value. If pirates want the latest, they keep having to go look for it. (Or do I recall some pirate update service ?) Updates via Play are easy and that ease has value.
All the above said, I do get angry from time to time, mostly at people stealing my time IE support. And the idea of finding a highly effective anti-piracy measure is fascinating.
But almost none of us is without some sin in our life regarding music, movies or software downloading... So I think it's good to consider the pirates' perspectives. Effective antipiracy definitely drastically reduces the user base and the Internet knowledge base and familiarity, and its' questionable as to how much revenue might increase, if at all.
IE, piracy can be seen as free advertising, and an opportunity to show some pirates there are valid reasons why going legitimate might benefit them, or even reduce their guilt level. I've had a few people buy my app and apologize...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, this is my philosophy. I usually reply to all emails, build the app around the feedback from the community and try to fix all the issues. This permits to create a loyal group of users, and it's the reason why apps like Facebook Home are hated so much: they talk about building apps around people, but for them people is the product, so it's a fail from the beginning
After some considerations I have abandoned the idea to build an antipiracy system, the reason is in part related to your thoughts but also because the 60-70% of pirated versions come from nations like Burma, indonesia, etc etc. So I don't feel that someone is stealing, google play can't provide a service, so people react. The good thing is that despite the lack of a service, they try to use my apps, so that's good, right?
So, at the conclusion, the best antipiracy system is to not use an antipiracy system. Clearly it will be hard to be supported only by paying customers, but the majority accepts some ads if the product is good ( the important thing is to not include spammy and intrusive services, one banner or a full screen on time a day is sufficient).
Thank you for this reply, it's really important to know that there are good developers around! :highfive:
Have you tried google licensing?
taomorpheus said:
Hello guys,
are you one of the android developers pissed off by piracy?
I have about 4000 active illegal users (70%), but my app is without any security checks.
Have you found a solution? I gave up on google security checks, it was too easy to hack. There is something more secure?
I've done a lot of research, but I am searching also for some real experience by xda users.
Thank you!
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Hi,
I am new to android development but I've read about google licensing services which checks for user account whether the app is actually purchased from that particular account associated with the user. If authentication fails then user gets a blocking dialog to either exit the app or purchase it from play store.
dbroid said:
Hi,
I am new to android development but I've read about google licensing services which checks for user account whether the app is actually purchased from that particular account associated with the user. If authentication fails then user gets a blocking dialog to either exit the app or purchase it from play store.
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Cracker can easily remove IF and your won't ask to buy it.
There should be VMProtect or Themida like tool for android
GR0S said:
Cracker can easily remove IF and your won't ask to buy it.
There should be VMProtect or Themida like tool for android
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It was hacked not long after its launch.
http://www.androidpolice.com/2010/0...on-easily-circumvented-will-not-stop-pirates/
taomorpheus said:
After some considerations I have abandoned the idea to build an antipiracy system, the reason is in part related to your thoughts but also because the 60-70% of pirated versions come from nations like Burma, indonesia, etc etc. So I don't feel that someone is stealing, google play can't provide a service, so people react. The good thing is that despite the lack of a service, they try to use my apps, so that's good, right?
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Yes. Most pirates can't afford the app or wouldn't buy it anyway. I also think that many pirates and those who felt "forced" to buy a protected app are bad customers. They will spread their bad feelings about the app and the "greedy dev".
And many have a sense of entitlement, so they make demands, expect lots of support, complain and write bad reviews. They project their own faults on others, and always assume others are trying to rip THEM off. Some have told me they were "testing" my app, because they were worried about getting ripped off if it didn't work (despite my free version and anytime cancel policy).
Better not to have such customers. These are the same people who think they are more important than everybody else and cheat in traffic and lineups etc.
taomorpheus said:
So, at the conclusion, the best antipiracy system is to not use an antipiracy system. Clearly it will be hard to be supported only by paying customers, but the majority accepts some ads if the product is good ( the important thing is to not include spammy and intrusive services, one banner or a full screen on time a day is sufficient).
Thank you for this reply, it's really important to know that there are good developers around! :highfive:
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For most of us small devs, yes. Things may be different for certain apps, such as those that need a backend server, and for multi-person companies.
You can also promote that your app is "DRM free". That's definitely a plus, especially to custom ROM users who may avoid using Google Play.
I tried ads for a few months in 2011. The "CPM" rates started good, but quickly dropped to almost nothing. I think it's very hard to make money from ads, unless your app has a million users, and they are more "average" people who might click on the ads, accidentally or not.
I think it's usually better to raise app price as high as you can. I experimented a lot for many months between $1 and $10, usually keeping price constant for at least 2-3 weeks. I, and some others, have found that total income remains somewhat constant no matter what the price, LOL.
Now I've left price at the high end, so I can provide the best support possible, by limiting sales quantity. Some people think we should "make it up in volume", but that's a self-serving wish of the person who wants it cheaper. High volume might be viable if you provide zero technical support though.
What I'd say in terms of pirate stuff is to not try too hard on the software level (though I might write a guide on a few useful methods and pieces of code to prevent the usual circumvention methods) but on the upload level. When you release a new version, wait a couple of days and then search for a pirate version of your app. If you find one, report it, they're usually down in about 5 minutes. The more often you do this, the more likely people are to search, find all the links are "dead" and then just think "stuff it, I'll just buy it". However, this will only work on people who can buy it and are using pirate versions because they wish to, not because they have to
Quinny899 said:
What I'd say in terms of pirate stuff is to not try too hard on the software level (though I might write a guide on a few useful methods and pieces of code to prevent the usual circumvention methods) but on the upload level. When you release a new version, wait a couple of days and then search for a pirate version of your app. If you find one, report it, they're usually down in about 5 minutes. The more often you do this, the more likely people are to search, find all the links are "dead" and then just think "stuff it, I'll just buy it". However, this will only work on people who can buy it and are using pirate versions because they wish to, not because they have to
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Because they'd PREFER not to spend money, if possible. In most areas of life, that's what most of us do.
Last I looked, this was the best Android cracking site: http://androidcracking.blogspot.ca/ . I read everything there twice before I started experimenting with protection code. If nothing else, it gives a glimpse of how hard it is to protect a popular app well.
I sent DMCA takedown requests to a few sites some time ago, but it's an endless task, and IMO not worth it, unless your app is VERY niche/has relatively few users. I've been "honored" to have my app included in several Torrents full of Android apps. Some of those Torrents are updated regularly.
I will still notify XDA admins if there's a link or offending ROM on XDA. XDA mods take it seriously.
Some companies will put out their own "pirate" fake or crippled versions of movies, and app devs could do the same. Perhaps have endless popups offering to buy the app legitimately. I personally wouldn't bother (at this time) but it could work. I agree that making piracy a hassle may improve sales a bit.
LOL, I just re-looked and see 3 on isohunt that are my app alone, but they are older. If I have time for "fun" later this year I should (1) start my own torrents, (2) collect IP addresses, and... I dunno; don't seriously want to be a copyright troll; rather design & develop.