Database Users

Worth writing a WinMo app for MobileMarketplace?

I have a couple of good ideas for some simple apps I'd like to write for WinMo..
But as I look at what I find on XDA, or 1800pocketpc.com , or other sites, most of the very good programs I see are written by people like me and released for free..
Will any of these currently available apps make it into the Mobile Marketplace?
Not that I think I'll become a millionaire, but I'd like to write them specifically for the Mobile Marketplace simply because I think more common people will find out about it and be able to easily purchase and install it.. It would be a simple (but very specific) sports-score-ticker type app for like $2..
All the apps I see on here and elsewere are great and well written, but hardly any of the common WinMo users know about them, or already have mortscript installed, etc..
Is it even worth writing an app for the Mobile Marketplace, or should I just do like everyone else and release it on here for free..?
-Matthew

I'd rather like it here for free, I won't get it if I gotta pay $2 bucks, and I'm sure many other ppl won't get it either.
With the Windows Marketplace, you also have to pay like $100 yourself just to put an app up there. Then you can only put like 5 apps total, or you have to pay more. Unless you think you're gonna get like hundreds of people buying it, and you wanna make some money, then go ahead and do the Marketplace.
I would just be kind and make it for free at XDA though, and then make a donation box.
Btw, I'm not gonna get ur app, I don't care about sports...but...make a PS3 Upcoming Games tracker, and I'll get it!

I think you should post it on both places on the marketplace and here because a ton of people know nothing about xda let alone freewarepocketpc.net or handango. But they will know about the marketplace because it will be more publisized.

can you release apps for free, and in the marketplace? that seems counter productive. that just lessens the chance of getting back the hundred bucks you gave to ms.

ou2mame said:
can you release apps for free, and in the marketplace? that seems counter productive. that just lessens the chance of getting back the hundred bucks you gave to ms.
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Well, it'd work, because as he said, not everyone knows about XDA. The power WM users get it for free, then, and the average user pays, lol.

That is one of the main diferences!, here at XDA we share it for just the pleassure and of course donations are always accepted! and members donate!
Just my opinion,

if you release a free app on Marketplace you still need to pay the $99 development fee (for the first 5 apps). The best course for a developer to balance the two worlds is likely to release some free apps here for the base and some paid apps in the MarketPlace because there are far more people that will be using the marketplace than visit any forums or blogs. It's just reality...or maybe you want to release one version for the MarketPlace and a similar version for free here so you can make a few dollars off of the mass markets and give back to the community here. Also, some developers (like Herm's Software) release some free apps and some paid apps. Obviously, the free apps are intended to show people the quality apps you are producing and introduce them to the paid apps so they will get some free benefits and you still get some perks.

Well. Many people will and wont buy it.
You need it to stand out from other apps like it. If it doesnt stand out, or is more expensive than another app like it, no one will get it. You need a good looking app, or an amazing new version of an old one for it to sell.
If I liked sports, and this app worked well / looked good, I would buy it.

Think about it like this... even with the large amount of people that have jailbroken iphones and are able to get apps for free, there is still a VERY large number of people that make a killing selling their apps in the app store. I remember seeing an article not too long ago about a guy that came up with some simple game and because almost an instant millionaire off of his app. I prefer free, but trust me there are plenty of people out there that WILL buy it if its a useful app. And with football season upon us I think a sports ticker may do better than you think it will.

brownhornet said:
Think about it like this... even with the large amount of people that have jailbroken iphones and are able to get apps for free, there is still a VERY large number of people that make a killing selling their apps in the app store. I remember seeing an article not too long ago about a guy that came up with some simple game and because almost an instant millionaire off of his app. I prefer free, but trust me there are plenty of people out there that WILL buy it if its a useful app. And with football season upon us I think a sports ticker may do better than you think it will.
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Yet, most iPhone users are dumb highschoolers (like my friends). They don't care to do advanced things, they just wanna buy dumb apps, like an app that makes a light-saber noise when waving the phone, LOL.
Windows Mobile, on the other hand, is directed toward the advanced user. We have been trained to search for our apps. We have been trained to replace the WinMo interface as much as possible. We have been trained to flash custom ROM's so we can get the latest and greatest.
WinMo users are more advanced, and they know better than to waste money on apps. We will probably look for alternatives to a paid app.
So, SOME people would pay for your app, but others would most likely be more practical. I haven't paid for an app, since, ever. I don't think I'll start now.
I could be wrong, but I think we could agree that dumb blondes don't go out buying WinMo phones
Now, if your app was something killer, and exclusive, then yes, I might end up paying. But a sports score tracker? I'll pass.

Marketplace???

Has anyone noticed how ridiculously expensive and overpriced applications are in the Windows Mobile Marketplace?
For one, their selection of applications are terrible. So far they're just a bunch of badly designed generic apps that don't feed any real purpose. The games are horrible too.
The only decent application I wanted to buy was Pac Man, but that's like £5 !!! for a measly game that probably only has 5 levels and I'm only going to play when I'm bored.
. I just want a decent Twitter application that has kinetic scrolling and doesn't show that horrid side-bar control.
. A decent media player with visualisations and coverflow.
. A few nicely designed touchscreen games including ones like Tweeter that makes use of the G-sensor.
It makes no sense for Windows to release all these devices and advertise that WM is a social device when their marketplace is a bunch of bollocks.

ilabstudios said:
. I just want a decent Twitter application that has kinetic scrolling and doesn't show that horrid side-bar control.
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http://code.google.com/p/pocketwit/

I agree. I am very disapointed with the marketplace myself. I was expecting thousands of high quality cheap and free apps but that's not what we have yet. I am hoping that this is only due to the fact that it's been 10 days since its release and must be hard to get thousands of apps ready to go in the first few months. I am confident though that microsoft is ready to compete with android and iphone so must surely have something more in mind than they currently have.

Unfortunately it has nothing to do with Microsoft. The WinMo software companies haven't adjusted yet to that fact that there is a central place for the average user to hit and find their competition. Something like SPB could be as pricey as it wanted, because it could take the average user forever to find any quality alternatives. They have the advertising dollars, placement on carrier websites, etc. Now there's a spot for a smaller competitor to get the same exposure. But it'll take time for them to pop up.
$30 for any mobile app is retarded. I'm really disappointed that since release day, I'm only seeing 10 new apps in the store. Maybe the "what's new" button is broken, but there's a couple on the results page I installed day 1 of Marketplace being open

The lack of apps is probably not helped by the fact that, as I understand it, Microsoft charge an extra $10 or so for each country to list the app in (and require that the app be localized for that country) so I'd assume that a good chunk of people developing apps in the US aren't going to push their apps beyond the US (I'm no developer so haven't read the full pricing details but that's the gist of what I've seen in some MS developer forums with people questioning why their apps aren't available)
It'll especially be true for free or cheap apps - if you've made a free app, would you pay out to make it available to other countries?
The only reason I can see for restricting apps to a country is if they are purely regional - TV schedules for a particular country, or train schedules or something.
Steve.

Well, I'm in the US, so not really an issue. Trust me, not missing much if they are actually holding out on pushing to other countries.
I'd also guess the word is out to developers that Marketplace is a good spot for their software to turn freeware and end up on a torrent so perhaps they are holding off until Microsoft fixes the security.

Jesus shoe tapping finger clicking Christ, give it a chance its only just started. I have already seen a lot on there for free and under 70p... just wait and be a bit patient.

give it a chance its only just started
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I would if that were the case. Unfortunately, Marketplace has been exposed to developers months before it was officially released, which is why I am confused as to why there are so many cheap applications. I'm sure that there will be more applications coming soon, but I'm more concerned about the pricing and quality of applications. When I watched the first keynote last year on the coming of Marketplace I had higher hopes than his.
I realise that some iPhone developers have investment from other companies and some of them even have a development team working on the apps, but still.. look at the type of stuff Android have compared with Windows, it's ridiculous. It's as if no real developer wants to develop on the WM platform.
I feel that their advertising campaigns are misleading. They're trying to get across the fact that WM is now social and more application orientated when so far all I can find on the marketplace are overpriced applications that seem like it was developed for WM5.
Personally I don't think 6.5 is going to be a huge success, TechCrunch has already given it a bad review. WM7 better be different.
Btw. In the world of technology, there's no room for 'Oh give it a chance' type attitude. Technology companies usually have once chance of pulling something off. Hence the reason why companies like Google or Apple spend millions of dollars on market resource, trial testing and development research.

Marketplace? Pah!
http://www.freewarepocketpc.net/
I've been relying on the RSS feed from this fine site for the past couple of years or so, since my original TyTN, TyTN II and now my Touch Pro 2. It's a great site, has introduced me to great programs like NoniGPSPlot, has new applications all the time and finally - it's all free (and not warez free, but genuine software).
Great stuff - Microsoft saw what Apple were doing too late and have done too little me thinks to succeed.
I love my Windows Mobile phone; but Apple's iPhone taught Microsoft and other mobile developers how important eye candy in a phone OS was. Google's Android OS will be taking the lions share of future mobile phone sales and I see Android phones surpassing the iPhone.
Unless Microsoft do something right, not many peeps will want a Windows Mobile device in a few years time...

So far the only good to come out of the app store is Zenonia...badass rpg... 10 bucks though But well worth it in my opinion! If you like old school snes hack and slash rpg's, this game is for you. Full sound, decent story, just great overall. For me, there's point in playing my old favorite snes games on my phone because with sound, to me its pointless. and not using sound is the only way to get an snes emulator to run smooth; regardless of which one it is ( morphgear, smart-whatever its called, or pocketsnes

Paulplex said:
...
Great stuff - Microsoft saw what Apple were doing too late and have done too little me thinks to succeed.
I love my Windows Mobile phone; but Apple's iPhone taught Microsoft and other mobile developers how important eye candy in a phone OS was. Google's Android OS will be taking the lions share of future mobile phone sales and I see Android phones surpassing the iPhone.
Unless Microsoft do something right, not many peeps will want a Windows Mobile device in a few years time...
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I see plenty of commercials for iPhones and Google phones on TV but absolutely none for WinMo phones. MS really needs to start promoting itself in this market.
S

How about the annoying fact that I don't get a chance to choose where to intstall the app. They all go directly to device memory. That sucks balls!

Paulplex said:
http://www.freewarepocketpc.net/
I've been relying on the RSS feed from this fine site for the past couple of years or so, since my original TyTN, TyTN II and now my Touch Pro 2. It's a great site, has introduced me to great programs like NoniGPSPlot, has new applications all the time and finally - it's all free (and not warez free, but genuine software).
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nice one !

Theres a cab floating around here to fix that...
moSess said:
How about the annoying fact that I don't get a chance to choose where to intstall the app. They all go directly to device memory. That sucks balls!
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mpicart said:
Theres a cab floating around here to fix that...
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http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=568806

@Paulplex - Thanks for the link. I know I can get free applications quite easily, that's what I've done so far. However most of them aren't to 6.5 standards, the majority of them are still coded for use on old WM5 phones.
When you spend hundreds on a phone you expect to install applications on it that are intended for such a high-end device. The only application which is worth installing is the Myspace and Facebook app, and even those aren't great.
I regard my phone as my house in a way. When we buy a house, we intend to fill it up with furniture, usually the more expensive the house, the higher quality the furniture. The same should apply to phones, in that instead of furniture we require high quality applications. But where are they? SPB is the only one I can think of.

do you people think that bill gates and the people at microsoft are just gonna sit around and allow apple to dominate the app frenzy in the market for pdas and devices? dont u think that most people at microsoft all have winmo devices? do u really think any employee would have an apple iphone?...so of coursse thousands of new gsensor apps are on their way of being placed on the marketplace or in development...obvious with android showing that they have developers also who are pumpin out apps for them..microsoft is doin the same thing..give them time the winmo app store just came out..and a gsensor phone for a winmo device first showed up only a yr ago..so they have a bit of software catching up to do with these new devices. HTC thank god...droped 6 new phones for the north american market just this month alone..with the tp2 being the first in september..(htc pure,htc hero,htc tilt 2,htc imagio,htc mytouch) so basically with 6.5 also droped...htc has done their part by stacking microsoft with a heavy set and multy array of phones to crush the competition i.e iphone 3gs or whatever version its at now. microsoft is not gonna sit around and allow apple to dominate the app market..and they sure as hell arent gonna let android..a new OS that has no business gettin their OS on htc devices, surpass them either...remembr bill tried to buy out google but they rejected a couple yrs ago. And u all know bill gates has a winmo devices,prolly a htc touch hd or the new imagio...dont u think he wants a huge selection of apps himselve? trust..were not the only ones on the heals of microsoft to get these developers in line..and get these apps rolled out...plus half the apps apple has for the iphone are useless and they are just puttin them in commercials to show that they have a **** load of apps...half the apps they have could be bunddled up with other apps like how a spb traveler or mobile shell app is but they are just tryin to show off how many apps they have..plus most of all the developers for apple just have the change a couple scripts around in their apps and all the same apple apps could be made into cabs and become winmo apps...so the **** isnt hard..the microsoft winmo team execut8ves or w/e u wanna call them need to get their marketing department working full throttle and start shipping new apps with these new phones...i repeat HTC has done their part..now its time for the software to catch up...

"Windows" isn't a device, "Windows" doesn't release devices, and "Windows" doesn't sell devices. "Microsoft" isn't any of those things, either. Microsoft is a company that produces an OS that runs on LOTS of devices (some phones, some PDAs, and a whole lot of things that are neither).

Plenty of time for this thing to get up to snuff.
But that said, the real problem is that while there aren't that many WM OS out there, (5, 6, 6.1, 6.5) and most apps will pretty much install in either, the different hardware config makes it a different ballgame, especially with games, no pun intended. Some phones have buttons, some don't. Some games will work only in landscape, some will not, some will work on both. And not all phones are exactly finger friendly. They're meant to be used with a stylus for the most part, the finger's a secondary thing.
So yea, these developers will have their hands full, unless of course they want to limit their market to particular devices only.
So that being said, my gripe is that none of these apps are telling me they're to be used in a particular hardware platform.

@moegdaog, I'm a developer myself, so I realise the number of new applications that will come soon, however that's not what I was specifically talking about.
I'm more concerned about the level of development on applications and games. Why so many developers opt to develop for iPhone isn't because of a bias view-point, it's because the tools they provide mean that they can develop a high-end application and start earning money as soon as it's in the marketplace.
However the type of developers are not the same. iPhone developers are usually younger, multimedia orientated so they probably have skills in web, graphics and illustration, where as Microsoft developers are usually a lot older and more prone to developing utility (function) based apps and have very limited skills in anything else. Most developers aren't able to outsource and so they are left with a rubbish application.
My worry is that yes there will be many applications within marketplace but will they actually be worth all that money and will any investors support the development of these apps. Also how will these applications differ from what we have seen on Android and iPhone.

[Q] Request for feedback: increasing my app usage

Hi all,
As a new dev in the android ecosystem, I am looking for other devs feedback on the following.
I have an app with about a few thousands user base. Growing slightly, but also with a decreasing active ratio.
As my revenue is ads driven, I'd like to experiment a few tricks to encourage users to use the app more, without being too intrusive.
A few ideas:
- show a notification after a few days that the app hasn't been used, to encourage the user using it again.
- feature: user can share the app's install page with friends (stimulate organic growth), via a share intent.
-> Devs, any stories on trying something similar?
Any feedback appreciated.

I'm a new developer, old-time programmer. Put 2 apps out December 21, 2009 and I'm approaching a whopping 30 sales; be happy you have 1,000+ (or more)
Wish I could help with the question, but I'm not really sure how to expose apps to a wider audience. I've thought about porting to iPhone/iPad and Windows Mobile to expand my user base. But I'm still pretty new to Android development and want to get more into it before learning yet another programming language right now.
I've actually thought of going to local bars and trying to strike-up conversations with people using smartphones and showing them my apps. Maybe buy them a drink LOL.
I firmly believe that if you have a solid working app and one person uses it, they may tell 5 of their friends and maybe 2 of them will buy it and tell 5 more people of which 1 or 2 might but it. Pyramid type sales but it's slow moving.
What kind of bothers me is all the damn FREE apps out there; I think they should be segregated from the Google Market; I've yet to go to any type of Market and get something for free! LOL And I wonder about free apps sometimes. Take SMS pop-up or whatever it's called. It's a decent app...it's free. I saw it at "over 250,000 downloads". Well, why didn't they charge $1.00 or $0.50 for it (do the math, I'll take $125,000!!). Any possibility it's forwarding people's text messages? Just sayn'

adn37 said:
A few ideas:
- show a notification after a few days that the app hasn't been used, to encourage the user using it again.
- feature: user can share the app's install page with friends (stimulate organic growth), via a share intent.
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Your first option sounds REALLY annoying. Your second option sounds perfectly fine. See later on for further points on what might help.
Rootstonian said:
What kind of bothers me is all the damn FREE apps out there; I think they should be segregated from the Google Market; I've yet to go to any type of Market and get something for free! LOL And I wonder about free apps sometimes. Take SMS pop-up or whatever it's called. It's a decent app...it's free. I saw it at "over 250,000 downloads". Well, why didn't they charge $1.00 or $0.50 for it (do the math, I'll take $125,000!!). Any possibility it's forwarding people's text messages? Just sayn'
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Not everyone is in it for the money. Some people just maybe write something that is missing on the market but don't want to make money from it. It might be just their hobby. Not everyone needs to be capitalistic, trying to turn everything into revenue.
The Android market is a lot about freedom, and there is high competition between free and paid apps. If your sole intent is to make money on apps, you will probably better off trying to target iOS. The most recent news I have is that an average iOS user will spend 7 times as much money on apps than an Android user. I think this fact kind of speaks for itself.
However if you still want to stick by, here are a couple of things I would suggest:
Offer a (free) lite version of your application as this will give users the ability to see whether your app means business or not, and if they'll like it they might go further to go for the paid version.
Android market uses keyword searching (there's probably a better term), so make sure your description hits as many possible words that may be applicable to your product while not being too heavy to read.
Advertising... don't ask me where as I wouldn't be able to help much with that. But if you're in it to make money, you probably have a business model so you should have some capital too that you can put into advertising.
That's about all I guess.

@Rootstonian
I have apps on the market, and in the last 3 months have made over $1k off ads in my free version, while only making about $250 off of the full paid version.

Very good responses there This forum does have some very intelligent people on it!
I'm anti-adware unfortunately. If that hurts my sales, then so be it; I can live with that. I won't allow ads in my apps.
As far as free versions, I would have to write "crippled" versions of the programs to limit full functionality. Well, not going to do that either. And to be honest, who can't afford $1.00?
Actually, the 15 minute return policy has hurt me I think. Some apps just can't be reviewed in 15 minutes, to wit, my current (almost done) Spam Text Blocker. There is no way someone can evaluate that in 15 minutes, so I have to code some type of limit on how many rows can go into the spam database.
Anyways, I'm way off topic (as usual) and being negative which is usually something I don't do. And I must remember, my stuff has only been out ONE month.
I do use a Macbook Pro, and I have downloaded the iPhone SDK; maybe I should take a break from Android OS and port a couple of apps to iOS and see what they do.
P.S. A smart man doesn't limit his options. How does the apps with ads stuff work?

Just apply to admob, its easy. They give nicely detailed usage statistics too

hi all,
Thanks for the feedback.
On "tell a friend about this app" feature:
Your second option sounds perfectly fine. See later on for further points on what might help.
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I'll just stick with that, then. Any idea what's best to link to? A blog? Android market?
I'm still looking for an app that does it in a nice way, as a case study.
I'm a new developer, old-time programmer. Put 2 apps out December 21, 2009 and I'm approaching a whopping 30 sales; be happy you have 1,000+ (or more)
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I feel you. Unfortunately, this is all about execution and idea potential. As coders, we are often thinking about code quality, this is only the 1st step.
On ads: at the end of the day, it might be a hobby to design apps, but fun decreases when it comes down to fixing bugs for the sake of it. Ihmo, a slight revenue is good, as it encourages devs to keep up enhancing their apps.
I'm anti-adware unfortunately. ... And to be honest, who can't afford $1.00?
Click to expand...
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I'm not a big fan of ads neither. It's all about culture. On Android, people are reticent to pay.

Good points and well said Adn
I actually got into this starting with Google Market apps, but my true goal is to get into corporate mobile development. I feel this is a technology barely in it's infancy. Just as almost all business' needed a web page, I think the same will hold true for a mobile app.
I just put in my resume to a company looking for an iPhone developer (1 year contract), but they also wanted to talk to Android developers too (wish me luck LOL).
Now, I'm on the fence as to what platform to go with. I think with the iPhone AND iPad, that iOS is the way to go with regards to corporate coding; so I'm going to head in that direction for now.

[Q] Paid vs Ads

In your opinion what has been better charging for apps or giving them for free with ad support? Also what kind of apps tend to do better with paid/ad based revenue?

Saw a few articles about that in the last few weeks. They talked about applications that have a free ad supported version and a paid ad free. The free version generates the most revenue. Paying seems a big threshold for some and is even impossible in a lot of countries.
Most banners are not intrusive in portrait mode but I do think they are mostly too large in landscape mode.

I do non-ad apps. The two that I have published are $1.00. Who can't afford a buck, really?
Perhaps having to sign-up for Google Checkout stops people from leaning towards the non-free apps.

Rootstonian said:
I do non-ad apps. The two that I have published are $1.00. Who can't afford a buck, really?
Perhaps having to sign-up for Google Checkout stops people from leaning towards the non-free apps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You would be surprised, ppl get defined all the time when trying to buy my app and its only 1.5 lol. Tho I guess there could be more reason why they are declined lol.
Sent from my Nexus One

If youre making a game... id say free version will make more money.
If its a utility... a paid version will make more money because the user wont have the app open for very long or use it very often

Lakers16 said:
If youre making a game... id say free version will make more money.
If its a utility... a paid version will make more money because the user wont have the app open for very long or use it very often
Click to expand...
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According to google docs, the onBackPressed() simple calls finish(). So it would be the same.
Honestly this isnt making any sense, calling onBackPressed() *should* be teh same as pressing the back button, but its not...

Lakers16 said:
If youre making a game... id say free version will make more money.
If its a utility... a paid version will make more money because the user wont have the app open for very long or use it very often
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Click to collapse
But if a user does not use it very often it is better to have an ad supported version as the user will not like to pay for it.

As a user, having to sign up for Google checkout did stop me from buying, but I got on it cause I figured out the can bill through my carrier.
But honestly, the thing that really keeps me from buying more apps - and specially games with downloadable content - is the 15 minute refund window.
Most of the times that is not enough for me to figure out if the app or game have this or that bug that could potentially turn me off.
Examples: I bought tapatalk, only to find out it FC on me frequently, at which point I am better off using g the free XDA app.
I also bought PSX4DROID only to find out later that it FC on my device when I change orientation - found out dropping the phone and loosing progress -
Lately I am opting for apps that have a free version or a fully functioning trial.
If I'm going to drop some cash then I want to make sure I'm getting something fully functional which will be supported by the dev.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App

I prefer ad supported apps over paid apps.
Two Reasons,
1) Ad Supported apps are free.
2) I'm only 13 (well almost 14 ) so I can't really pay for apps.

Not to mention a lot of people are broke.

It's all basic Economics (yes, I actually liked economics classes in college).
2 things: Supply and Demand and Economies of Scale
Which boils down to quality vs. quantity. Do you create and make that "KILLER APP" that sells 100,000 copies at a measly $1.00 each? Yeah, I would be happy.
Or do you create 100 "NICE TO HAVE APPS" and sell 1000 copies each at same price?
Still would be happy
I really still think the mobile app market (Android, Windows Mobile, iOS) are still in an infancy stage. Especially when it comes to corporate implementations; whether end-user or in-house.

Syn Ack said:
Not to mention a lot of people are broke.
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Broke? Explain to me how someone who has sh at least $50 phone eith the majority bring well over this can not afford $1-3 apps?
Do ad supported apps do better then paid? Generally yes, but its no2 bc ppl can't afford it. Fickle had create an environment where any person with a key board csen go out and make an app. Bc of this this the majority are free and crap.
Look at the iphone quality of apps, out far exceeds that of android by far. This had nothing to do eith number of users, but rather bc paid aps actually still on the iphone. Look at the best paid aps on android...less thrn 10k sales that's crap. A company can not operate on that number of sales.
Its all about mentality of the user and supply n demand...
Sent from my Nexus One

I prefer ad supported apps. That way, I can get the app for free, with no hassle on my end, but the dev is still making money. And when it's an app that I really like, I tend to just click the ads a bunch of times.

Lets support Android developers!!

Hey Xoomers!! We all know this, but its worth repeating...some developers are now showing interest in Android/honeycomb tablets...but in order to keep that support, and to get Ipad quality games and developers on board, we must SUPPORT these developers by actually buying their games and apps and stop the bootlegging!! I know it can be tempting, but why would developers want to Support Android if we are not paying..they would just continue to support Apple..and we will be left with powerful devices with no great games or apps to show for it...Lets show Apple that Android is the new king of the block!!!

Agree with you lets unleash the beast off this tegra
sent from my Motorola XOOM

I want Square Enix on board. I've gotta play Chaos Rings, Final Fantasy 1,2 and 3 on my iPhone... Chaos Rings was a pretty neat mobile RPG.

i just purchased The History great battles medieval, which i have to say looks pretty ugly lol!! But still I dont mind spending the $6.00 bucks, i might like it later But the more support we actually show, the more developers will jump on board, and create better looking games for Tegra. I would love to play resident evil Zombies, need for Speed hot pursuit on our amazing Xoom devices, but its up to us to show that its worth making games for Android. So if we can spend $5.00 on things we don't need, surely we can spend the money to help benefit us as Xoom owners in the long run!!

MRCANNADY said:
Hey Xoomers!! We all know this, but its worth repeating...some developers are now showing interest in Android/honeycomb tablets...but in order to keep that support, and to get Ipad quality games and developers on board, we must SUPPORT these developers by actually buying their games and apps and stop the bootlegging!! I know it can be tempting, but why would developers want to Support Android if we are not paying..they would just continue to support Apple..and we will be left with powerful devices with no great games or apps to show for it...Lets show Apple that Android is the new king of the block!!!
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I've always paid for my apps. Any lack of developer interest because of bootlegging isn't in any way because of me. Its worth noting that even having to post this speaks volumes of the mindset of "general android users" and gives ios devs that much more fuel.

cwizardtx said:
I've always paid for my apps. Any lack of developer interest because of bootlegging isn't in any way because of me. Its worth noting that even having to post this speaks volumes of the mindset of "general android users" and gives ios devs that much more fuel.
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i disagree with your statement..regardless if i posted this or not, developers have already mentioned the fact that bootlegging is a problem with Android owners in general. We have to show developers that we are serious about supporting them. So it's good to show that we are committed to buying apps/games, and that developers will be rewarded for taking the time to develop for us. if we acknowledge the problem and speak about about it, hopefully that will get people on board if they want the better-quality games for Android!

Apple has alot of bootlegging. its just as easy to get a paid app for free on ios devices, as it is on android. I think apple devices have more apps because their is more people to use the product. And devs only have to make it for th Device iPhone Ipad ect. But with anroid you have a little harder time because everything has the android os on it samsung HTC motorola ect.

Ask an ios developer who also produces a like android app which generates more revenue and which gets stolen more.

This is the same argument software developers have had literally for decades. I used to be a producer at a major gaming company and we always claimed that pirating cost us millions of dollars a year. The fact is that it is completely unprovable that there is any loss of revenue at all. If you make an absolutely awesome state-of-the-art game with absolutely unbreakable copy protection you will sell x number of units. If you sell the same game with no copy protection you will still sell x number of units but a bunch of people who didn't pay for it will get it as well because its easy to copy. So regardless, you still make the same amount of money, but you spent a lot more on the DRM licenses so you actually made less profit in the end.
With Android, the number of people who root their device and install pirated apk's is a hugely insignificant number to the overall Android user base, most estimates put it so low that it isnt even trackable. If you choose to not develop for a platform because of pirating, you are throwing money away.

I second the notion of supporting devs, but priacy isn't the primary problem. The biggest problem is market share and time on market. As both of those increase, they will no longer be an issue. This said, it wouldn't hurt to try and cut down priacy and maybe for a free app with a donation option somewhere, use it if its a good app. (Not always obviously, but sometimes is a great start.)
Sent from my Xoom the way it should be, rooted and with SD card.

Appealing to people's better nature is about the same as asking for donations. You aren't gonna get too far.
I think the best anti-piracy approach isn't DRM, but to convert it to a service. You can't pirate a MMOG. Not all software can be tailored to this, but most can, especially in this age of 24x7 connectivity. Software is heading in this direction already, with SaS and of course Da Klowd.
The tough cookie is how to extend the SaS model to media, viz movies and music, given their fundamentally "offline" nature of consumption.
Perhaps the way forward for the movie/music industry is to wrap them in software, eg make them interactive. Say, a piece of music can be played at varying tempo of your choosing, or it can be auto-remixed using templates, or it can be sweetened depending on your mood, etc.
Interactive movie is a tougher row to hoe, since movie watching is mainly a linear experience. But once animation gets to the point of achieving photo-realism, then a movie can conceivably be constructed like a game.
A major weakness of games thus far is lack of pathos. It's hard to be scared, or feel sad or joy, when playing a computer game, as opposed to watching a good movie. Perhaps a movie-game hybrid, with real human actors in intermixed sequences, will achieve this.

I disagree with you. The post by the OP is something like "encouragement" to give MORE SUPPORT to Android developer.
1. To talk more about Android apps to friends and family
2. To contact particular apps developer to create Honeycomb version of their Android apps
3. To contact iOS developers to port their product to Android Honeycomb
4. To create great detailed reviews of Android Honeycomb apps / games and spread the word
cwizardtx said:
I've always paid for my apps. Any lack of developer interest because of bootlegging isn't in any way because of me. Its worth noting that even having to post this speaks volumes of the mindset of "general android users" and gives ios devs that much more fuel.
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Agree ...
The thing is for people who do not want to buy, they will not buy anyway.
This kind of thing is mentality. No matter what, they will always find away to pirate.
What I always do here at my work is to promote and specifically tell all my friends about Android apps and why they should not pirate them (some of them do pirating).
Come on, the price is not expensive! Really not expensive! I cannot believe people risking their phone by installing illegal version for something worth like $1 or $2.
However, I would love to have options to PERMANENTLY REMOVE / DELETE certain apps from my Google Checkout account!
Yes, not all apps are good ... Sometimes, I regret that I bought "that" app. And now, it is listed in my Google Checkout account
I could do some kind of "donation" by buying "any" good apps or ported apps from iOS, once a month for example I will do this to give support to Android devs. But yeah, I don't do this now because I hate to have long list in my Android Market purchased apps list.
KerryG said:
This is the same argument software developers have had literally for decades. I used to be a producer at a major gaming company and we always claimed that pirating cost us millions of dollars a year. The fact is that it is completely unprovable that there is any loss of revenue at all. If you make an absolutely awesome state-of-the-art game with absolutely unbreakable copy protection you will sell x number of units. If you sell the same game with no copy protection you will still sell x number of units but a bunch of people who didn't pay for it will get it as well because its easy to copy. So regardless, you still make the same amount of money, but you spent a lot more on the DRM licenses so you actually made less profit in the end.
With Android, the number of people who root their device and install pirated apk's is a hugely insignificant number to the overall Android user base, most estimates put it so low that it isnt even trackable. If you choose to not develop for a platform because of pirating, you are throwing money away.
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Thank you guys for understanding my post. I think Android wants Honeycomb to be more *centralized* like Apple..meaning that developers won't have to worry about making different versions of apps n games since most tabs running honeycomb will have the same base specs. We need let devs know that we are serious about supporting them...The Android family will or has already outgrown Apples fan base..so developers can make money from us but they need to know that most of us will buy their products. You never know who's reading these forums.

I have no idea whether there is a lot or a little piracy on android phones. Unfortunately there will always be a segment of any group willing to justify stealing products or information. Some groups worse than others. My guess that at least on this forum people understand what goes into making an app and respect that. Now being in the video game industry I can attest to piracy especially on the pc. It gets to the point where its almost pointless to produce a variant of a console game on pc. If the drm is too restrictive you get blasted all over th internet. If you don't put a really restrictive drm on them every pc owner wil have bit torrented your game. Very frustrating.
In any case, that does not seem to be the case with android. I think the best formula is to provide a free version to test with limited functionality and sell a full version so the people who want all of the features can get them and support the app devs. Such as docs to go. So long as the programs stay relatively cheaper there not be much incentive pirate.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA Premium App

>My guess that at least on this forum people understand what goes into making an app and respect that.
In that most here have bought a $600-800 gadget, we can say that the demog for this forum have higher disposable income than the norm. Another thing we can say is that some number here are content producers or business owners, so there is more empathy for app devs. In short, those here aren't mainstream people.
I don't think the economics of software pricing will suddenly be lowered to the <$10 variety (as dominated by current phone apps) for the simple reason that software devs haven't decided to work for less money. IOW, TCO will be the same, because cost of production is still the same. The different thing is that the distribution channel now is more democratized, and there'll be more software as services than as packaged e-goods.
The issues of piracy are well-known; no need to rehash them here. Suffice it to say that it will be the same for tabs as it is for PCs.

Part of the problem with our Open Ecosystem is the crowd that it has attracted.
These people who love and kill for 'Open' have had access and use of FOSS(Free Open Source Software) for years - everything just about has been about FOSS.
It's difficult to retrain the mindset of these guys to pay for any software. I am not saying anyone is stealing, I am saying they don't see the current sets of software worthy of $0.99 - the cost is not the factor here, the mind set of FOSS is.
That being said the 'Free' in 'Free Open Source Software' does not mean free from $$$ - it just usually happens to be that way with most software used on an open Linux platform.
That being said, I have purchased every app that I have tried, liked, and a pay version has been available for - there are 10 or so that I don't even have installed any more because I just don't use them (programs designed for 1.5, 1.6, or 2.1 - that don't need to be used any more because features exist).
I get the 'Support Future Development' theory, and would gather to say that most of who do Pirate software really don't understand how a development cycle works, or how you make it profitable. I'd almost bet that 40% of the windows copies that hit this web page a day aren't legit. I'd also say that number is safe and low.
If you want a Free OS - take a bit of time and learn linux (Mint is as easy and Windows) - don't steal from that mean multi billion dollar corporation. Theft causes prices to rise, denying them the sale causes prices to fall and force them to become competitive.

On a side note...
Amazon seems to be actively pushing the Android market with their "Free paid app a day" promotion. My question is now, do the developers still get the money for each download or are they the ones to say "hey, promote my app by making it free for 24 hours"?
I think the Android market will always be the step child but on the other hand it is filled with enthusiasts and real people that are approachable. It's more like a team (see this forum). I am very proud to be a member of this community and I am very tempted to switch to an Android phone when I next have the option for a new phone. I currently have a jailbroken iPhone 3GS and probably paid more on Cydia than on iTunes Also, I have paid for way more apps on the Xoom (and way more money was spent) than all my iPhone apps together!

funnycreature said:
Amazon seems to be actively pushing the Android market with their "Free paid app a day" promotion. My question is now, do the developers still get the money for each download or are they the ones to say "hey, promote my app by making it free for 24 hours"?
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Yes, they do get a % of the price of the App, I think they receive 20% when the app is listed for the free app of the day - There are some other stipulations to that though. They get 70%? I believe when the app is purchased normally and Amazon keeps 30% finders fee so to speak, covers CC Processing and Amazon over head.

I would gladly buy the apps if i only could. Like someone already posted, apps are not exactly expensive when you consider the price we have paid for our Xooms.
Only problem is that for some reason Google doesn't offer paid apps in my country
I understand that Market Enabler also doesn't work for wifi only Xoom?
Does anyone know a way how i could buy apps?