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Why have things been so quiet on the dev front lately?
There was an initial flurry of activity, and most of the big ticket items were taken care of like rooting, sideloading, enabling tethering, webtop hacks, HDMI mirroring, etc. Thanks to DG and the other devs for that!
However, afaik we've only got 2 ROMs so far. I was hoping to join in the dev community when I get the time, but there doesn't seem to be much of one anymore.
Other moto devices with locked bootloaders do have significantly more activity. I'm tempted to jump ship to the Verizon Thunderbolt now... pity because I really like the Atrix despite it's locked bootloader.
(I don't mean to disparage the work done so far... I realize that one of the reasons activity has slowed down is because the big ticket items have been taken care of
Like I've stated in another post in a different thread. Without an unlocked bootloader, you're going to be hearing crickets in these forums soon, as peoples 30 day trial periods are soon coming up. Sure not everyone is returning it but no dev support means a dead device for those of us that want custom roms. There is nothing more to say. If for some off chance the bootloader becomes unlocked you can always buy it again if you still want to support motorola. But don't keep this device based on hope. Accept that moto screwed you and return it while you still can. I am 7 days to go...
No, I'm not keeping it based on hope. I want to keep it because I really like the form factor of the phone as well as its resolution and battery life. I also wanted a phone with HDMI out.
You don't need a custom kernel to have a ROM - sure that imposes limitations on what you can do. In fact, the GingerBlur ROM proved that you can get some enhancements of newer Android releases without changing the kernel.
I can understand though that fewer DEVs would be motivated to work on a phone with a locked/signed bootloader. However, the Droid X forums seem to be pretty active...
i too am a little disappointed at the shrinking dev base - i've seen some leave. however of AT&T android phones, regardless of the software this one appeals to me the most for its form factor/size (i wanted 4" over 4.3"), front-camera and color (all black). the HDMI out (+enabled webtop) is nice too, along with the screen resolution.
'Tis a shame. From what I've been hearing, the Atrix was a sales flop. So much wasted potential.
Well, I'm sticking with it regardless. I got it on launch day and I plan to enjoy it to the fullest.
The tegra 2 game that I want isn't even out yet.
NoNameAtAll said:
'Tis a shame. From what I've been hearing, the Atrix was a sales flop. So much wasted potential.
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Maybe this'll be a lesson for Motorola and they might decide to unlock the bootloader after all. I'm this close to jumping ship to the HTC Thunderbolt... I'll probably be grandfathered into their unlimited plan for the foreseeable future.
I tried to get ATT to give me an additional GB by threatening to switch to Verizon, but all they gave me was crappy $25 credit. **** Motorola and **** ATT!!
professor_chaos said:
Maybe this'll be a lesson for Motorola and they might decide to unlock the bootloader after all. I'm this close to jumping ship to the HTC Thunderbolt... I'll probably be grandfathered into their unlimited plan for the foreseeable future.
I tried to get ATT to give me an additional GB by threatening to switch to Verizon, but all they gave me was crappy $25 credit. **** Motorola and **** ATT!!
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I just bought a thunderbolt. Patiently awaiting its arrival.
Screw moto.
I just found out that DG has left us... this totally blows, though at least Kenneth is still working on the GingerBlur ROM.
eallan said:
I just bought a thunderbolt. Patiently awaiting its arrival.
Screw moto.
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Did just that and never looked back. LTE Blows at&t out the water where I live and even tough single core...it feels just as fast.
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA App
It does suck we have one person creating roms. Ken is doing an amazing job but only one man can only do so much. I feel that if more devs were here creating roms people would stick around. I plan on keeping mine for awhile since I bought it outright...I'm due for an upgrade soon so well see.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
I'm so mad...these devs see all this negative stuff about how people don't like their Atrix, why the hell WOULD they want to develop for it? Everyone saying "i'm leaving" "returning it" "bought htc (whatever)" doesn't help. Keep it positive at least. Nobody wants to do work for a bunch of winers...
If you're going to return it, keep it to yourself. Nobody cares.
I'm surprised Ken's still working for all of you moaners.
A new rule would be nice, say something useful or don't say anything at all.
It's not the devs fault that Moto screwed them, most folks got it on the hint that moto had changed for the better and was going to make the bootloader open.
I can't blame the folks for taking them back.
Hell I have a Captivate, Hardware outstanding ( just like the Atrix, ok minus the GPS ) Software flat out sucks, at least the devs could do something with the Captivate with the open bootloader. It makes it a pretty damn good phone.
Just imagine what could done with the Atrix if the devs could actually do something with it, Kens isn't real happy either as I'm sure his considerable talent is being stifled by Moto, that burns his ass a lot more than folks returning it because moto rammed it home hard.
I'm sitting on couple of upgrades right now and would get the Atrix in a heartbeat IF Moto and ATT would allow it to be open for the devs. In the meantime I'll wait and may switch to Sprint ( even though I've been Orange for over ten years ) for the Evo3d ( think I read somewhere it has Wimax and LTE radios in it ), that thing is looking real nice and about as future proof as it get's in this industry.
Atrix is a bust Motorola really blew it with the locked bootloader. They underestimated the developer communities influence and it's coming back to bite them in their fat greedy ass.
BravoMotorola said:
I'm so mad...these devs see all this negative stuff about how people don't like their Atrix, why the hell WOULD they want to develop for it? Everyone saying "i'm leaving" "returning it" "bought htc (whatever)" doesn't help. Keep it positive at least. Nobody wants to do work for a bunch of winers...
If you're going to return it, keep it to yourself. Nobody cares.
I'm surprised Ken's still working for all of you moaners.
A new rule would be nice, say something useful or don't say anything at all.
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It's not like everyone is saying that. But the ones saying that are really being vocal about it. I don't get all the hate. Phone has not even one month and mostly I see people complaining about the locked bootloader. Eventually, that will get cracked.
Devnant said:
Eventually, that will get cracked.
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such optimism. The droidX has been out how long? That is still locked down nice and good. I know there are differences, but be reasonable here. It would appear MOTO knows what they are doing.
cegna09 said:
such optimism. The droidX has been out how long? That is still locked down nice and good. I know there are differences, but be reasonable here. It would appear MOTO knows what they are doing.
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and at the same time they absolutely have no idea what they are doing to themselves
live4nyy said:
and at the same time they absolutely have no idea what they are doing to themselves
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i don't believe this statement for a second. I really don't think this phone is being returned in droves by average users.
in the Eyes of Motorola reliability for 90% of users > support of 10% who want to hack. and a locked down phone is much better for reliability.
cegna09 said:
i don't believe this statement for a second. I really don't think this phone is being returned in droves by average users.
in the Eyes of Motorola reliability for 90% of users > support of 10% who want to hack. and a locked down phone is much better for reliability.
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Given the specs of this phone and the capabilities I think that the development community represents a higher percentage in the overall buyers base for this phone. Rooting and custom ROMs are becoming more "fashionable" to average users. I'm not saying that there will be an immediate impact within the lifespan of this phone but if Moto continues these methods it will turn around to bite them
look at the other dual core tegra phone(optimus 2x). the devs and the the people there seems to be really happy with their phone now that clockwordmod is available and some custom kernels are already taking into place(optimus 2x is not yet release here in US and some part of europe)
so i think the locked bootloader is one of the major culprit why most devs are leaving atrix and so are some people who wants custom roms for their phone. its a big disppointment really, moto and at&t are [insert word here]
its a good phone but motorola is acting like apple.
Maybe Motorola should learn a thing or two from its competitors. I am this close to losing faith in this phone.
http://pulsene.ws/15Zld
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
So they release the source code to kernels for phones that are over a year old?
LancerV said:
So they release the source code to kernels for phones that are over a year old?
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The Incredible S is not.
LancerV said:
So they release the source code to kernels for phones that are over a year old?
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ha,ha good one
The Incredible S is a new model.
HTC's always been on the up-and-up regarding GPL and posting source code. It doesn't surprise me that Moto has taken a completely opposite stance regarding openness.
agentdr8 said:
HTC's always been on the up-and-up regarding GPL and posting source code. It doesn't surprise me that Moto has taken a completely opposite stance regarding openness.
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I think Motorola takes that stance to make themselves more appealing to the carriers.
If you really think about it, the more "open" carriers like T-Mo and Sprint don't really have any Moto devices.
EDIT: minus the Cliq and Charm, but those are low end.
Not to argue but, Samsung's Galaxy series was on all carriers and could be heavily modded. Not to mention that Samsung included unlock codes in the phone itself for one of their models.
HTC Inspire, Nexus One, Desire/HD/Z, etc were on major carriers.
My guess is that Moto doesn't have the manpower/balls to deal with warranty support for people who brick their phone by rooting. Or they just don't care.
i.mac said:
My guess is that Moto doesn't have the manpower/balls to deal with warranty support for people who brick their phone by rooting. Or they just don't care.
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this should be a non issue. You root the phone, or otherwise modify beyond manufacturer intentions, you void the warranty. case closed.
cegna09 said:
this should be a non issue. You root the phone, or otherwise modify beyond manufacturer intentions, you void the warranty. case closed.
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But people who don't fully understand rooting or the consequences of rooting would contact the manufacturer for a warranty repair/replacements.
i.mac said:
But people who don't fully understand rooting or the consequences of rooting would contact the manufacturer for a warranty repair/replacements.
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and the answer would be the same. That is how it works. If you were dumb enough to try something without fully understanding the consequences if it went wrong, too bad. you should always educate yourself on a topic before delving into it blindly.
i.mac said:
Not to argue but, Samsung's Galaxy series was on all carriers and could be heavily modded. Not to mention that Samsung included unlock codes in the phone itself for one of their models.
HTC Inspire, Nexus One, Desire/HD/Z, etc were on major carriers.
My guess is that Moto doesn't have the manpower/balls to deal with warranty support for people who brick their phone by rooting. Or they just don't care.
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You make a good point but the Galaxy series has only one variant on Verizon and AT&T, whereas, it is making multiple appearances elsewhere.
**This is only referring to Android devices (phones)
Look at Motorola's lineup on Verizon - Droid, D2, DX, Droid Pro, Citrus.....then look at AT&T - Backflip, Flipside, Bravo, Flipout, Atrix.
Now look at Samsung - Verizon: Fascinate and Continuum / AT&T: Captivate
That's 10 - 3 (not including tablets)
Then you can throw in HTC - Verizon: Incredible and Thunderbolt (even though HTC tried to lock down the TB) and AT&T: Inspire and Aria
That's still 10 - 7 in Motorola's favor. (You can't include the N1 because AT&T refused to carry it in their lineup, even so, Motorola still gets the nod)
I definitely do get your point of view. And you bring up a great point that carriers that want to milk you out of your money do like Motorola devices. I wonder though if this is to please the carrier or save there warranty/repair costs. If they do do it to cut costs/risks it directly benefits the carriers. So it works in their advantage both ways.
But, like what happened with Netflix's unwillingness to come to Android, Motorola's steps might pay off. And a lot of people got upset with Netflix's decision and wanted manufactures/carriers to do something about it.
Do we as users just expect too much?
i.mac said:
I definitely do get your point of view. And you bring up a great point that carriers that want to milk you out of your money do like Motorola devices. I wonder though if this is to please the carrier or save there warranty/repair costs. If they do do it to cut costs/risks it directly benefits the carriers. So it works in their advantage both ways.
But, like what happened with Netflix's unwillingness to come to Android, Motorola's steps might pay off. And a lot of people got upset with Netflix's decision and wanted manufactures/carriers to do something about it.
Do we as users just expect too much?
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Just as cegna09 said, if you damage your phone through rooting/modding, you void the warranty so it would only seem that they do it to appeal to the carriers.
It seems HTC is jumping on the bandwagon as well.
http://www.engadget.com/2011/03/24/htc-locks-down-incredible-s-against-custom-roms-too-starts-a-fi/
I see a strategy here. Motorola, and now HTC, seem to be making their phones harder to crack and more difficult to mod. What this tells me is that they are trying to reduce the dev community down to just the hardcore players in an attempt to improve their profit margins. How? Well, if you can't update the phone yourself through something like flashing a custom rom or add your own features then they will have more control over the choice selection in their phones. One example would be the Atrix itself, while it has the hardware Moto could restrict the software and then in the future they could release a phone with the software but not the hardware. Does anyone ever ask themselves why can one phone have a certain feature and not another one?
This is what's going to happen people. Get used to it. We are in the hands of the worst kinds of people - "Big Cellular"
Edit: same info as above
A part of me wants to just a get a Nexus S and be done with. I may.
Their development threads are flooded. I know our might pick up, but it'll never be the same.
Why doesn't doesn't the same thing apply to our phone as did with the iphone, why aren't were covered under the DMCA? Iphone users can freely mod/jailbreak their handsets because of this and not only that apply has to still cover them under warenty. How is this any different?
Sent from my MB860 using XDA Premium App
drock212 said:
Why doesn't doesn't the same thing apply to our phone as did with the iphone, why aren't were covered under the DMCA? Iphone users can freely mod/jailbreak their handsets because of this and not only that apply has to still cover them under warenty. How is this any different?
Sent from my MB860 using XDA Premium App
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If Apple can prove your device was jailbroken then it voids your warranty. It is in their License Agreement.
live4nyy said:
If Apple can prove your device was jailbroken then it voids your warranty. It is in their License Agreement.
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Only until you don't restore.
To Motorola and for the rest of us,
I bought this phone originally because I read that the bootloader would be unlocked and I assumed fairly soon after. I, like most people, do not like motoblur. It is a slow, bloated, unfriendly interface that was forced upon me. Sadly, it is still forced upon me. So now that I thought I'd hold out and thought we'd get the keys, we didn't and it's too late to return this phone that had great promise.
What do I do now since I was dupped? I take away potential customers from Motorola. I've already convinced 3 of my friends not to get any of your phones and also a XOOM and who knows how many people they will tell my recommendations to?
You guys waste so much money on marketing and creating an image. This thing was suppose to blur the lines between computer and phone and you yourself are the ones who crippled that from being possible. Do you know what happens when you go to a sales agent at AT&T? They don't recommend the Atrix; a power user/person with knowledge of smartphones denies the customer from even considering it an option. Why would they do that? Because they know they can sell another phone that THEY like (easier to sell when you like it yourself) and they know the user won't come back and return against them, since they are paid commission.
Also, consider the demographic that probably bought this phone or considered it. They more than likely aren't the people who click 'Allow' when a website asks if it can install malware - those people bought iPhone's. The dual core CPU and webtop experience attracted the nerdier group - the power users and dev's - the exact people who don't want the limitations you put.
I know my post probably won't get heard by anyone important at moto but I know some of us owners/users/sympathizers will read this. The only thing I can hope is that we use the great tool we have and blog/tweet/status update/tell others. They won't listen to us, but they will listen to money. Take it away from them and they will listen.
FRIENDS DON'T LET FRIENDS BUY MOTO! <---My facebook status and you should make it yours too!
kane4fire said:
To Motorola and for the rest of us,
I bought this phone originally because I read that the bootloader would be unlocked and I assumed fairly soon after. I, like most people, do not like motoblur. It is a slow, bloated, unfriendly interface that was forced upon me. Sadly, it is still forced upon me. So now that I thought I'd hold out and thought we'd get the keys, we didn't and it's too late to return this phone that had great promise.
Moto wasn't forced upon you. You bought the phone with a locked bootloader and Motoblur installed! Buying the phone was your decision!
What do I do now since I was dupped? I take away potential customers from Motorola. I've already convinced 3 of my friends not to get any of your phones and also a XOOM and who knows how many people they will tell my recommendations to?
Just because Motorola hasn't unlocked the bootloader in what is your timeframe doesn't constitute you being duped! Once again, you bought the phone knowing it had a locked bootloader and Motoblur!
You guys waste so much money on marketing and creating an image. This thing was suppose to blur the lines between computer and phone and you yourself are the ones who crippled that from being possible. Do you know what happens when you go to a sales agent at AT&T? They don't recommend the Atrix; a power user/person with knowledge of smartphones denies the customer from even considering it an option. Why would they do that? Because they know they can sell another phone that THEY like (easier to sell when you like it yourself) and they know the user won't come back and return against them, since they are paid commission.
No salesperson tried to prevent me buying mine. In fact, to the contrary, they gave me all the options. I, like you, chose to purchase the Atrix! A power user doesn't need the sales persons help to choose what they want!
Also, consider the demographic that probably bought this phone or considered it. They more than likely aren't the people who click 'Allow' when a website asks if it can install malware - those people bought iPhone's. The dual core CPU and webtop experience attracted the nerdier group - the power users and dev's - the exact people who don't want the limitations you put.
Dare I say it again..............you bought the phone knowing the bootloader was locked and Motoblur was on it! Everyone who has bought the Atrix and considers themselves a power user knows/knew the same things
I know my post probably won't get heard by anyone important at moto but I know some of us owners/users/sympathizers will read this. The only thing I can hope is that we use the great tool we have and blog/tweet/status update/tell others. They won't listen to us, but they will listen to money. Take it away from them and they will listen.
Sell your Atrix..........take your *****ing to another forum............and on your way out, don't let the doorknob hit ya where the good lord split ya!
FRIENDS DON'T LET FRIENDS WHINE AND COMPLAIN ABOUT A PRODUCT THEY BOUGHT KNOWING IT WASN'T WHAT THEY WANTED <---My facebook status and you should make it yours too!
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See above for my response to this!
*****ing about it will not accomplish anything and a large company such as Motorola wont be hurt by a few sales and honestly if I were your Facebook friend I would still buy this gadget, you know why? Its a great phone and there is still a chance that its bootloader will be unlocked eventually...just be patient.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
Actually, motorola explicitly stated they were going to unlock the bootloader from near the beginning - which was the reason I bought the phone. They used it as a selling point and they haven't addressed it at all...probably hoping it would be forgotten. Same thing with it being called a 4G phone, but it couldn't even attain 3G speeds up. They sold people on the idea that it would have the ability to access the fastest network speeds and people knew it didn't but still bought it. People *****ed, and now everyone (including your ungratefulness), got what they were told they were paying for.
A sales person may have not kept you, but it does happen more than in your case. As a matter of fact it happens fairly regularly. Usually a sales rep will lean towards one phone instead of another simply due to personal preference.
It is a great phone and great hardware without the ability to use it. This is a developers forum. If you don't want the ability to develop on this phone completely, why are you here? So you can seem all high and mighty? Maybe you're the one in the wrong forum or maybe you should just have a couple pitchers at a pub?
As far as a few sales not hurting it, that's not true at all. These phones aren't exactly flying off the shelves. As a matter of fact, this phone has a higher return rate than almost other smartphones. A returned phone costs much more overall than just not making a sale in the first place. The reason why they are going to do that is only because enough people are pissed about it that their current sales are hurting. They didn't spend money hiring people and R&D to create a locked bootloader if they didn't originally plan on keeping it locked for good.
You guys can tell people not to say anything or *****, but at the end of the day, you'll be the ones reaping the benefits of the people who did.
roharia said:
*****ing about it will not accomplish anything and a large company such as Motorola wont be hurt by a few sales and honestly if I were your Facebook friend I would still buy this gadget, you know why? Its a great phone and there is still a chance that its bootloader will be unlocked eventually...just be patient.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
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*****ing won't, but asking the right questions and showing that you are not the only one who is after this definitely gets some attention.
Kane4fire,
I really like your passion, it's just about making sure your message is heard and that you don't look like a troll.
Please look at some of the work I've been doing with Motorola, it's slow going but we are getting noticed.
http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2011/04/motorola-bootloader/
http://www.engadget.com/2011/04/26/motorola-promises-unlocked-bootloaders-for-future-android-phones/
http://www.groubal.com/motorola-lockedencrypted-bootloader-policy/
http://www.facebook.com/unlockmoto
Cheers,
Irwin
Irwin, I have been seeing a lot of your work and group and etc. Personally, I'm not 100% convinced on them unlocking the bootloader for the Atrix since all the articles stated 'late 2011 releases' and the Atrix is early 2011.
The whole point of my post was for people who do post things and have some sort of a following to actually do something and post up as well on their own avenues. If you lose your dog, you don't just tell one or two people, you tell everyone and everything you can and it creates an exponential chain of people who end up knowing about it.
I personally know for a fact that at least in a small regional area they haven't done well with the XOOM and Atrix AT ALL and much of it actually has to do with Blur and it's problems with memory usage, battery life, and general lack of UI polish. I am sure that once the figures are out it will reflect how poorly they have been doing. It's a corporation and money is their motivator/reason for existence. I am sure if they hurt enough they will bow.
kane4fire said:
Irwin, I have been seeing a lot of your work and group and etc. Personally, I'm not 100% convinced on them unlocking the bootloader for the Atrix since all the articles stated 'late 2011 releases' and the Atrix is early 2011.
The whole point of my post was for people who do post things and have some sort of a following to actually do something and post up as well on their own avenues. If you lose your dog, you don't just tell one or two people, you tell everyone and everything you can and it creates an exponential chain of people who end up knowing about it.
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Absolutely. I haven't ceased any of my activities since that PR mumbo jumbo they gave me.
I have a few contacts within Motorola that are being difficult to get a hold of, so I keep sending emails, I keep calling (international calls for me), I keep my facebook group going, I keep tweeting and spreading as far as I can.
I hope you also have similar luck in spreading the word and getting people to rally to the cause, just make sure not to dilute the message too much or get people opposed to you.
Good luck my friend, it's good to see the fire burns strong for you.
kane4fire said:
Irwin, I have been seeing a lot of your work and group and etc. Personally, I'm not 100% convinced on them unlocking the bootloader for the Atrix since all the articles stated 'late 2011 releases' and the Atrix is early 2011.
The whole point of my post was for people who do post things and have some sort of a following to actually do something and post up as well on their own avenues. If you lose your dog, you don't just tell one or two people, you tell everyone and everything you can and it creates an exponential chain of people who end up knowing about it.
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Not to doubt your ability to read and understand the English language, but here is the actual quote:
“Motorola will enable an unlockable/relockable bootloader, currently found on Motorola Xoom, in future software releases where carrier and operator partners will allow it,” Motorola said in a statement provided to Wired.com. “It is our intention to include the unlockable/relockable bootloader in software releases starting in late 2011.”
Is the Atrix a software release? No. Maybe they will be pushing OTA updates starting in late 2011 which will allow for this.
knigitz said:
Not to doubt your ability to read and understand the English language, but here is the actual quote:
“Motorola will enable an unlockable/relockable bootloader, currently found on Motorola Xoom, in future software releases where carrier and operator partners will allow it,” Motorola said in a statement provided to Wired.com. “It is our intention to include the unlockable/relockable bootloader in software releases starting in late 2011.”
Is the Atrix a software release? No. Maybe they will be pushing OTA updates starting in late 2011 which will allow for this.
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Well, my mistake. I haven't been able to sleep. Either way, their choice of wording still doesn't mean they will actually provide the unlock since they have to convince the carrier to unlock it. I don't know what their terms were with AT&T, but why would they need permission to unlock a bootloader when it has nothing to do with the cellular network? AT&T is obviously going to say no on the matter since it means less possible anything for them to deal with. Then again I don't know. Maybe it was apart of the deal that they would lock the bootloader as a package to offer the phone on a particular network.
kane4fire said:
Well, my mistake. I haven't been able to sleep. Either way, their choice of wording still doesn't mean they will actually provide the unlock since they have to convince the carrier to unlock it. I don't know what their terms were with AT&T, but why would they need permission to unlock a bootloader when it has nothing to do with the cellular network? AT&T is obviously going to say no on the matter since it means less possible anything for them to deal with. Then again I don't know. Maybe it was apart of the deal that they would lock the bootloader as a package to offer the phone on a particular network.
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Neither you or any other Atrix owner is entitled to an unlocked bootloader from Motorola. Just saying: You're not. At the same time, you're well within your rights to crack it yourself, or just get a different phone.
Edit: I'm not saying it wouldn't be nice of Motorola to package a completely open bootloader with the Gingerbread update. It would.
This absolutely does have something to do with AT&T. The AT&T Atrix was "built" for AT&T. There are contractual agreements in place.
So if AT&T says no, that is the answer. If you want a phone with an unlocked bootloader (in this case) then you need to buy one that will be unlocked - either the carrier approved it, or maybe we see an unlocked phone that is not tied to a carrier.
If you buy an AT&T (or other carrier) branded phone, then you are going to be stuck with that carriers decisions.
chromedome00 said:
This absolutely does have something to do with AT&T. The AT&T Atrix was "built" for AT&T. There are contractual agreements in place.
So if AT&T says no, that is the answer. If you want a phone with an unlocked bootloader (in this case) then you need to buy one that will be unlocked - either the carrier approved it, or maybe we see an unlocked phone that is not tied to a carrier.
If you buy an AT&T (or other carrier) branded phone, then you are going to be stuck with that carriers decisions.
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You say that, but then again there are many other Android phones on AT&T that /do/ have an unlocked bootloader. Captivate, Aria, Inspire, galaxy tab and most likely the Infuse. So again, maybe AT&T doesn't care and its up to the manufacturers.
Sent from my screaming Atrix *4G* using the XDA App
I am lost......if bloatware and motoblur are the issues you have with the phone why not just get rid of or freeze the bloatware and try a different launcher or Ginger/grey blur? I haven't had to deal with motoblur for a while.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
kane4fire said:
To Motorola and for the rest of us,
For one you and hackers on here kill me most brands like moto don't make phone people to replace a bootloarer that's not in there mind in the board meeting.That being said they built a phone that a normal person can pick up and download apps from marketplace from its like buying a new 2011 car getting it home and dropping the motor and tranny the new car is ment to drive of the lot now im not saying I want my atrix bootloader locked cause I don't and my G2x is not unlocked but you can't strike against a large company like moto your little voices still mean nothing do them unless where on there board they care less.
I bought this phone originally because I read that the bootloader would be unlocked and I assumed fairly soon after. I, like most people, do not like motoblur. It is a slow, bloated, unfriendly interface that was forced upon me. Sadly, it is still forced upon me. So now that I thought I'd hold out and thought we'd get the keys, we didn't and it's too late to return this phone that had great promise.
What do I do now since I was dupped? I take away potential customers from Motorola. I've already convinced 3 of my friends not to get any of your phones and also a XOOM and who knows how many people they will tell my recommendations to?
You guys waste so much money on marketing and creating an image. This thing was suppose to blur the lines between computer and phone and you yourself are the ones who crippled that from being possible. Do you know what happens when you go to a sales agent at AT&T? They don't recommend the Atrix; a power user/person with knowledge of smartphones denies the customer from even considering it an option. Why would they do that? Because they know they can sell another phone that THEY like (easier to sell when you like it yourself) and they know the user won't come back and return against them, since they are paid commission.
Also, consider the demographic that probably bought this phone or considered it. They more than likely aren't the people who click 'Allow' when a website asks if it can install malware - those people bought iPhone's. The dual core CPU and webtop experience attracted the nerdier group - the power users and dev's - the exact people who don't want the limitations you put.
I know my post probably won't get heard by anyone important at moto but I know some of us owners/users/sympathizers will read this. The only thing I can hope is that we use the great tool we have and blog/tweet/status update/tell others. They won't listen to us, but they will listen to money. Take it away from them and they will listen.
FRIENDS DON'T LET FRIENDS BUY MOTO! <---My facebook status and you should make it yours too!
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Sent from my LG-P999 using XDA App
Tylerjd said:
You say that, but then again there are many other Android phones on AT&T that /do/ have an unlocked bootloader. Captivate, Aria, Inspire, galaxy tab and most likely the Infuse. So again, maybe AT&T doesn't care and its up to the manufacturers.
Sent from my screaming Atrix *4G* using the XDA App
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^^^ If Moto scapegoats AT&T over this, it would not be good for business.
knigitz said:
Not to doubt your ability to read and understand the English language, but here is the actual quote:
“Motorola will enable an unlockable/relockable bootloader, currently found on Motorola Xoom, in future software releases where carrier and operator partners will allow it,” Motorola said in a statement provided to Wired.com. “It is our intention to include the unlockable/relockable bootloader in software releases starting in late 2011.”
Is the Atrix a software release? No. Maybe they will be pushing OTA updates starting in late 2011 which will allow for this.
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It's rumored that Moto will be the manufacturer for the next generation Google Nexus branded device, which is supposedly to be released ~Q4 2011. Maybe this is what they are referring to. Who knows. All I do know is that quote from moto didn't say anything about the Atrix.
nucentury08 said:
For one you and hackers on here kill me most brands like moto don't make phone people to replace a bootloarer that's not in there mind in the board meeting.That being said they built a phone that a normal person can pick up and download apps from marketplace from its like buying a new 2011 car getting it home and dropping the motor and tranny the new car is ment to drive of the lot now im not saying I want my atrix bootloader locked cause I don't and my G2x is not unlocked but you can't strike against a large company like moto your little voices still mean nothing do them unless where on there board they care less.
Sent from my LG-P999 using XDA App
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Holy ****. Longest, most rambling sentence I've ever seen.
Other att phones have locked bootloaders but they where easily exploited. Htc and the other manufacturers are making them harder and harder to unlock. Att most likely is in contract with moto to keep it locked. With it locked they have more chances of making more money off the bloatware.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA Premium App
knigitz said:
Neither you or any other Atrix owner is entitled to an unlocked bootloader from Motorola. Just saying: You're not. At the same time, you're well within your rights to crack it yourself, or just get a different phone.
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yeah, why should people who plunk down hundreds of dollars be able to do what they want with something they own?
the nerve of some people wanting to use their devices as they see fit.
jbe4 said:
yeah, why should people who plunk down hundreds of dollars be able to do what they want with something they own?
the nerve of some people wanting to use their devices as they see fit.
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You pay for the product, not the ability to tweak it to your heart's content. You don't see a $200 iPhone coming readily available to modify, do you? No. You have to jailbreak it first, if there's a jailbreak available.
As for kane's comment about motorola saying they'd unlock the bootloader from "near the beginning".... there was never such a statement that i've seen. I've seen stuff on the Motorola Owners Forum stating that a possible bootloader solution was being looked into... but nothing more than that. period.
elementaldragon said:
You pay for the product, not the ability to tweak it to your heart's content. You don't see a $200 iPhone coming readily available to modify, do you? No. You have to jailbreak it first, if there's a jailbreak available.
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by paying for the product I've paid to do what I want with it - If I want to use it as a way of leveling a kitchen chair thats my prerogative.
I think its just as patently offensive that Apple does it too
regardless, Android was/is billed as the Open Source alternative specifically to address the nonsense that is the itunes store and the draconian oversight of overbearing manufacturers. To have individual manufacturers go against the spirit of what google was/is trying to accomplish when they released AndroidOS seems just a bit ridiculous, dont you think?
Update on Bootloaders
https://twitter.com/#!/htc/status/90239767287037952
by HTC on Tuesday, May 24, 2011 at 7:50pm
Thanks so much for providing feedback, we hear your concerns. Your satisfaction is a top priority for us and we're working hard to ensure you have great experiences with our phones. We're reviewing the issue and our policy around bootloaders and will provide more information soon. Thank you for your interest, support and willingness to share your feedback.
**UPDATE**
We’ve listened. Check out the statement from our CEO, Peter Chou on HTC bootloaders. Click the link for more info. http://on.fb.me/iZXgkR
**UPDATE 7/10**
We wanted to provide an update on HTC’s progress with bringing bootloader unlocking to our newest phones. We know how excited some of you are for this capability, and we’ve put significant resources behind making this change as soon as possible. While we wish we could flip a simple switch and unlock all bootloaders across our device portfolio, this is actually a complex challenge that requires a new software build and extensive testing to deliver the best possible customer experience.
We’re thrilled to announce today that software updates to support bootloader unlocking will begin rolling out in August for the global HTC Sensation, followed by the HTC Sensation 4G on T-Mobile USA and the HTC EVO 3D on Sprint. We’re in the testing phase for the unlocking capability now, and we expect it to be fully operational by early September for devices that have received the software updates. We'll continue rolling out the unlocking capability over time to other devices as part of maintenance releases and new shipments.
HTC continues its commitment to unlocking bootloaders and supporting the developer community. Because of the importance of this community to us, please expect an update on this about every few weeks as we make progress toward launch. Thank you for your patience and continued support!
I hope that is all true but I wont hold my breath...
Software updates? Sounds like some strings are attached... I can't say that I'm surprised, with carriers charging for locked services like tethering. I personally do not use tethering or condone anything unethical (which could be interpreted as charging for tethering!). I just hope this is true so that I can develop without having to search for root, or buy a $400 Nexus.
Anyone else getting the feeling that this will take some of the fun out flashing?
They've got until October. If they haven't shown they are ready to provide an experience that "gets me" then.. then... something. Hopefully some great white whale of handset freedom will be available.
meh.....seems like a PR move more than anything , they ARE getting a lot of negative feedback from people, not to mention, this latest gingerbread release backfired on them...they tried to lock down devices , but seeing how bad the release went for a lot of EVo owners wich actually made people that have never rooted a phone , look to root theirs because they hate gingerbread unstability
personally, i wont hold my breath, and i doubt ill upgrade to the 3d.......september??? gimme a fkn' break!
Will unlocking the evo 3d effect the evo 4g or is that something we will have to wait for time to tell?
JackieBrown said:
Will unlocking the evo 3d effect the evo 4g or is that something we will have to wait for time to tell?
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That depends entirely on the root method...ie where the find the exploit. If it is gingerbread, itself, then it should work for us. If it is in some other place, like sense 3.0, then it wouldn't help us.
nebenezer said:
They've got until October. If they haven't shown they are ready to provide an experience that "gets me" then.. then... something. Hopefully some great white whale of handset freedom will be available.
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PS
I gotcher white whale right here, buddy...
Notice the HTC statement does NOT address the Evo4G.
This could be the marketing strategy of future.
Release new phones with unlocked bootloaders,
OTA legacy phones to lock bootloader,
'you want root access, buy new phone'
scary thought...
Scary, but not absurd.
You don't think Sprint changing the policy on Premier users wasn't 100% about selling new phones or collecting more per month?? All in all, it was about boosting revenue collection.
I hope for you guys something is out by October, and look at it this way; I ran my Moment 100% Stock for 6 months before I even researched rooting. It wasn't so bad....
...'course, I'd never do THAT again!
HTC will never unlock the bootloader on the EVO. Thats why we need someone to root what we have now.
They will release unlocked boat loaders as maintenance releases, Evo won't be unlocked by HTC, I don't believe the EVo will get any more attention from HTC. They have moved on from it.
his bootloader information is geared to the sensation and 3d. So why is this thread in the evo 4g section
mikeyinid said:
HTC will never unlock the bootloader on the EVO. Thats why we need someone to root what we have now.
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Now now, we don't know that's true.
Of course, theres no proof... But it doesnt take a rocket scientist to know its all about money. QUOTE=mattykinsx;15586217]Now now, we don't know that's true.[/QUOTE]
mikeyinid said:
Of course, theres no proof... But it doesnt take a rocket scientist to know its all about money.
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I don't understand how NOT unlocking the bootloader would be money related?
The Evo is easily the top selling HTC phone ever and the third most selling phone in 2010.
It's in HTC's interest to make sure it's open for the millions that bought it.
It makes no sense to unlock the bootloader of a phone thats very near its eol, when not doing so will make people go to the newer unlocked devices. Thats how its about money. If they do unlock the bootloader on the evo it wont be til a while after the 3d and sensation get unlocked.
mattykinsx said:
I don't understand how NOT unlocking the bootloader would be money related?
The Evo is easily the top selling HTC phone ever and the third most selling phone in 2010.
It's in HTC's interest to make sure it's open for the millions that bought it.
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mikeyinid said:
It makes no sense to unlock the bootloader of a phone thats very near its eol, when not doing so will make people go to the newer unlocked devices. Thats how its about money. If they do unlock the bootloader on the evo it wont be til a while after the 3d and sensation get unlocked.
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But the Evo is the face of HTC now.
In fact, every phone since has been based on the design.
It's still the flagship as far as sales for HTC.
Just so you guys are aware, HTC will be releasing the unlocked bootloader as a software update to the newer crop of phones. The big problem is that the software has to go through the carriers BEFORE it will be released to the public.
http://www.engadget.com/2011/07/10/htc-rolling-out-unlocked-bootloaders-to-select-phones-in-august/
CDKJudoka said:
Just so you guys are aware, HTC will be releasing the unlocked bootloader as a software update to the newer crop of phones. The big problem is that the software has to go through the carriers BEFORE it will be released to the public.
http://www.engadget.com/2011/07/10/htc-rolling-out-unlocked-bootloaders-to-select-phones-in-august/
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Sprint won't have a problem, T-mobile might not have a problem.
At&t and Verizon customers are F-ed in the A.
But then again, they're used to that aren't they?
So...today I sent a mail to LG Dev seeing one other person here, and this is what they replied. I have posted the screenshot. WTF??? What do they mean by previous devices??? This device isn't even 3 months old Goddamn... very mad with LG. Regrets to leave HTC. And BTW where is written which one is newer & which one is older? How are we supposed to know that?? This is cheating....
Not cheating friend. They never promised to unlock your phone when you bought it. Believe me, I know it sucks...I'm right there with you waiting for an unlock myself. This doesn't surprise me one bit, honestly. I'm willing to bet that none of the LG phones sold by carriers will be unlocked by LG in the future either.
nipun1110 said:
So...today I sent a mail to LG Dev seeing one other person here, and this is what they replied. I have posted the screenshot. WTF??? What do they mean by previous devices??? This device isn't even 3 months old Goddamn... very mad with LG. Regrets to leave HTC. And BTW where is written which one is newer & which one is older? How are we supposed to know that?? This is cheating....
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Yea I've already told everyone this 3 weeks ago.
I need to decide if I want to buy the G4 in exactly a month from now.
If it won't be unlocked until then, I would sadly wait for the Note 5.
Well that'll pretty much cement my decision to go back to HTC. I don't hate this phone, honestly. It's pretty good and I've had no real issues with it. But (and I'm not interested in arguing WHY I want BL unlock and root. I just do. It's my phone) if there isn't mfg support for the unlock, screw 'em.
Came to the G4 because the M9 camera sucked. I suspect HTC will fix that in their next release at which point I'll go back to a phone that I can unlock and root within 15 minutes of opening the box. Nothing against the G4 itself. It's a solid phone. But I won't be locked down, and while I respect the devs working on this and the work they do, I don't have the patience to wait long term for each LG phone I get. Thought I'd maybe move away from HTC entirely, but...guess not. Oh well.
smw6180 said:
Well that'll pretty much cement my decision to go back to HTC. I don't hate this phone, honestly. It's pretty good and I've had no real issues with it. But (and I'm not interested in arguing WHY I want BL unlock and root. I just do. It's my phone) if there isn't mfg support for the unlock, screw 'em.
Came to the G4 because the M9 camera sucked. I suspect HTC will fix that in their next release at which point I'll go back to a phone that I can unlock and root within 15 minutes of opening the box. Nothing against the G4 itself. It's a solid phone. But I won't be locked down, and while I respect the devs working on this and the work they do, I don't have the patience to wait long term for each LG phone I get. Thought I'd maybe move away from HTC entirely, but...guess not. Oh well.
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I ALMOST got the M9...just couldn't get past the camera deficiency it has. It's not even a good camera by 2014 standards...and doesn't come close to the best of 2015. I'm willing to even say it isn't as good as the M8's (and possibly even M8. Problem with it is that this year's camera lacks both OIS (which M7 had) and the second camera for depth or imaging chip (which M8 had), leaving it with just a huge MP count and no hardware help to assist the sensor. Sure, software can do some adjustment, but it'll never be like having the actual proper hardware for the job. So while they will likely update the camera...many times, it is still limited by it's unfortunate lack of hardware assistance and isn't likely to ever match any of the other 2015 devices. Best hope from HTC is the "Hero device" they're talking about for this fall.
Either way, I'm gonna stick with LG till next year's flagship round comes out. Sure it sucks to wait for unlock and root, but I'd rather have the top end camera hardware. I use my phone as my primary camera, so I'd rather have bootloader issues than camera deficiency.
Th3Bill said:
I ALMOST got the M9...just couldn't get past the camera deficiency it has. It's not even a good camera by 2014 standards...and doesn't come close to the best of 2015. I'm willing to even say it isn't as good as the M8's (and possibly even M8. Problem with it is that this year's camera lacks both OIS (which M7 had) and the second camera for depth or imaging chip (which M8 had), leaving it with just a huge MP count and no hardware help to assist the sensor. Sure, software can do some adjustment, but it'll never be like having the actual proper hardware for the job. So while they will likely update the camera...many times, it is still limited by it's unfortunate lack of hardware assistance and isn't likely to ever match any of the other 2015 devices. Best hope from HTC is the "Hero device" they're talking about for this fall.
Either way, I'm gonna stick with LG till next year's flagship round comes out. Sure it sucks to wait for unlock and root, but I'd rather have the top end camera hardware. I use my phone as my primary camera, so I'd rather have bootloader issues than camera deficiency.
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Same here, my phone is my primary camera, especially for vacations. And for the record my wife still has her m8 and my son the m7 and you're correct, BOTH of them take better pictures than the M9 does. We'll see about that hero device. I'm up for another JUMP upgrade in November (I'm grandfathered on the twice a year upgrade plan) so it's possible I could jump ship around then. Just have to see. Absolute worst case I pay this thing off and buy something outright. Dunno yet.
Back on topic though (sorry 'bout that ), my main issue is one of patience. It's probably my fatal flaw...as I said I KNOW it takes time to find and package (for money or free) a stable root exploit. Even longer to find a bootloader unlock exploit usually. This isn't the devs fault by any stretch. I'm just used to being able to quickly unlock and root my device...it's been a REAL long time since I've had to wait for root and finding that LG isn't planning to support an unlock is majorly disappointing to me.
I don't know why anyone would buy a carrier phone, and expect a factory unlock. That's what we have XDA for. Anyway, since we know the phone can be rooted, I'm hopeful that we will see a bootloader unlock, or work around as well. The phone hasn't been out that long, so you just have to have a little patience.
spotmark said:
I don't know why anyone would buy a carrier phone, and expect a factory unlock. That's what we have XDA for. Anyway, since we know the phone can be rooted, I'm hopeful that we will see a bootloader unlock, or work around as well. The phone hasn't been out that long, so you just have to have a little patience.
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'Expect' no. 'Hope' yes. Plus remember I'm coming from HTC where they're unlockable out of the box. Didn't occur to me that LG would flatly refuse to do it. My own fault, but what can you do?
Don't blame LG but your stupid USA cell providers. Which pay a lot of money to let you enjoy their spam.
*justintime* said:
Don't blame LG but your stupid USA cell providers. Which pay a lot of money to let you enjoy their spam.
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Well typically I'd agree with you, however this one's LG's decision. TMO doesn't have any issues with unlocked bootloaders. If it was Verizon or AT&T I might agree with you.
smw6180 said:
'Expect' no. 'Hope' yes. Plus remember I'm coming from HTC where they're unlockable out of the box. Didn't occur to me that LG would flatly refuse to do it. My own fault, but what can you do?
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Ugh, HTC. I agree with you about their cameras. I started out with the M8 last year, but that camera sucked hard. My wife already had the G3, and when I saw that the devs were confident about rooting/unlocking, I got rid of the M8, bought a G3, and rode it out until it came to fruition.
Is there anyone here who work with LG? I need them to 'deliver' a message..
Here's the thing.. I started with LG G3.. it was a great device and I really love it.. specially the camera.. very nice quality.. and I absolutely loove the root on this thing.. I can switch ROM that I like and add other customization with root ability of course (xposed, adblock, etc..)
And there's the new LG G4.. basicaly an upgrade to LG G3 wich I found very significant upgrade from previous device, LG G3.. without hesitation I upgrade it right away (seeing my lovely expericence with LG G3 before).. But here's the thing.. altough is a wonderful device, I'm very.. very.. very.. very dissapointed they not releasing the root for my device (H818P).. If I known this sooner, I will NOT buy LG G4 and stick to my LG G3..
Soo my 'message' to LG is very clear.. release the unlock, or this is my LAST experience with their phone.. PERIOD.. I heard they are now preparing the LG G4 Pro next year.. well, if they still not releasing the unlock for LG G4, they can forget about it.. well at least from me.. I'm soo done with LG
Think you all have to be patient. There will be a developer who will get it unlocked.
At least I guess. Has there ever been a phone not unlocked?
*justintime* said:
Think you all have to be patient. There will be a developer who will get it unlocked.
At least I guess. Has there ever been a phone not unlocked?
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Yep. Motorola had a couple, and I believe the G2 (I could be wrong on that one though).
smw6180 said:
Same here, my phone is my primary camera, especially for vacations. And for the record my wife still has her m8 and my son the m7 and you're correct, BOTH of them take better pictures than the M9 does. We'll see about that hero device. I'm up for another JUMP upgrade in November (I'm grandfathered on the twice a year upgrade plan) so it's possible I could jump ship around then. Just have to see. Absolute worst case I pay this thing off and buy something outright. Dunno yet.
Back on topic though (sorry 'bout that ), my main issue is one of patience. It's probably my fatal flaw...as I said I KNOW it takes time to find and package (for money or free) a stable root exploit. Even longer to find a bootloader unlock exploit usually. This isn't the devs fault by any stretch. I'm just used to being able to quickly unlock and root my device...it's been a REAL long time since I've had to wait for root and finding that LG isn't planning to support an unlock is majorly disappointing to me.
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I had both, so I was willing to stake my bet that both took better pics (though admittedly I've never had the M9).
I'm right there with ya on waiting sucks.....probably why I've never bought a device this early in it's "life". I usually get it after it's been out for a few months and has at least root.. I was in the unfortunate situation of my Note 4 becoming so unstable on 5.0 that it was hardly functional....would have to reboot 3-5 times a day average. Got the G4 because I couldn't take the idea of having an apple-looking device in my hand LOL
smw6180 said:
Yep. Motorola had a couple, and I believe the G2 (I could be wrong on that one though).
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Hopefully it's not the case. Normally I was already on a custom rom.
No unlocked bootloader means less development on custom roms
admops said:
Soo my 'message' to LG is very clear.. release the unlock, or this is my LAST experience with their phone.. PERIOD.. I heard they are now preparing the LG G4 Pro next year.. well, if they still not releasing the unlock for LG G4, they can forget about it.. well at least from me.. I'm soo done with LG
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I'm not saying they don't care about you, but lets face it...they don't care about you. If you don't buy another LG, that's what....1 device per year? Maybe two. Consider this...we have what appears to a few hundred users on the G4 thread. We're probably not 1% of the total sales of the G4....and probably never will be. LG is going to look at "the masses" (aka people who don't xda, have no idea what root is, and wouldn't know what to do with unlock), which is like 99% of the users. They'd rather focus on the next update to the G4 or the next model they release, as if they can make it better than Apple or Samsung's next iteration of the smartphone, they can gain thousands of unit sales. Not to mention, this more than likely is a CARRIER driven situation than an LG driven one. Carriers don't really want us being able to remove their ads and other bloat....they worked hard to fatten our phones up!
I think it's a crazy situation that a carrier can decide that YOUR payed device is locked because of advertising bloatware.
Glad to live in a country with freedoms.
Th3Bill said:
I had both, so I was willing to stake my bet that both took better pics (though admittedly I've never had the M9).
I'm right there with ya on waiting sucks.....probably why I've never bought a device this early in it's "life". I usually get it after it's been out for a few months and has at least root.. I was in the unfortunate situation of my Note 4 becoming so unstable on 5.0 that it was hardly functional....would have to reboot 3-5 times a day average. Got the G4 because I couldn't take the idea of having an apple-looking device in my hand LOL
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Whereas I'm always 'get me that damned device the second it's available!!! NAO!!!!
*justintime* said:
I think it's a crazy situation that a carrier can decide that YOUR payed device is locked because of advertising bloatware.
Verstuurd vanaf mijn LG-H815 met Tapatalk
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It's not because of carrier bloatware. It's largely because of warranty and support. 98% of the people out there aren't going to unlock the phone even if it's able to unlock.Frankly the carriers don't really care about those of us who want to unlock it...we're not a big enough amount of their revenue to matter. Which is why the carriers (well Sprint and TMO anyhow) will usually let you unlock. Like I said, this one isn't because of the carriers (aside from AT&T and Verizon probably). This is about LG not wanting to provide the unlock.