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Not that I'm asking for help about the sluggishness, it's just that the G1 is just overall way more sluggish than my friends iPhone 3G. As in web pages load WAY faster (Wifi on both devices being used). The UI is way more snappy.
And I understand the trade offs I'd get with an iPhone. No true multitasking or alerts from apps (like twitter email etc. . .) No Gmail push (I think) no Google Cal sync over the air, or contact sync OTA. All these things are great, but I dunno, I think I'm going to crossover into iPhone land soon. The G1 just became a let down for me after using it closely for about 6 months. And using other peoples iPhones on and off.
This is just a rant. And mostly I'm talking about browser load speeds and UI. It would be nice if Google maps oriented the direction we're facing since it has a compass. But the new update is moving in the right direction. Love the walking directions. But I think I'm gonna move on to 1 app at a time, Draconian app approval, HYPE land, release 5 HW revisions before making a new product, iPhone land.
Any Takers. Who can refute my arguments. I'm using Google Ion ROM also.
Heh, and the iPhone 3GS supposed to be even faster!
You're pretty much begging for a flame by asking that in here.
It's all down to personal choice and preference. Your thread isn't about your 'sluggish G1'; You're asking us to convince you why you need a G1.
Nobody cares that you no longer want a G1. But don't make a new thread masquerading as a plea for help that is really about:
Any Takers. Who can refute my arguments.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i hope you enjoy your seemingly faster (much more expensive, much less useful) iphone.
my personal experience has been different, but you seem like the kind of person who wouldn't be convinced even with hard evidence.
Alright. Well. I don't benchmark or use "hard evidence" tests, I just go off the feel of things. Of course I know the iPhone is locking you into a Lot of things. But a jailbroken iPhone 3G / 3G S will be more fun app / mobile safari. And as far as a reason for keep the G1 I'm not looking for a reason. I've rooted the phone, used apps2sd 2 with an ext3 partition. Made sure data/data is in intmem etc. . . The Rom dev is great, but an iPhone is like having an SL500. Of course more gas, higher maintenance cost. G1 is like having a nice truck that's a hybrid. It just doesn't feel as sexy. It can do Way more, but its a truck.
I'm cool with hearing other reasons why the G1 isn't sluggish etc. I'll listen, but I was just posting this out of my frustration of a slower browser and slower UI. I don't really know what the flame talk was about or me covering up intentions. These are just phones. But I think a jailbroken iPhone 3G beats out a rooted G1. Plus I'm not trying to ssh into my linux server with debian installed over hero.
Anyway, its just a conversation I wanted to spark with people who understand what I'm talking about. Not to mention the apps are a big plus too. And don't get me wrong, the g1 is good for the things it was built to address. The iPhone will just be more fun.
do you have all the newest and update firmware and radio installed?
your title is misleading.
also, only way to find out which one is better......... go and get both and use both and decided from there
I'm pretty sure I have the newest firmware. Haykuro's that was causing bricks on non PVT boards. I was using JF 1.51 ADP. I moved to cyanogen mod of JF. I moved on to hero, then google Ion rom. Oh and the sapphire rom. Ion rom was fastest, but iPhone's overall fell and touch is simply night and day. So is the browser. Steel was great before cupcake but it closes so much now its not even useable.
Oh yeah, radio is up to date too, hence the non bricked phone. Nevermind no 3G here in our area. I just want to hear others opinions before I drop 300 / plus a deposit for bad credit / and charging me for txt msg! But I'll have more apps.
The g1 does seem to get sluggish over time. I would try a wipe. That should restore the speed of the phone.
However, there's no getting around the performance of the iphone as it supports 2d hardware acceleration. The g1 and android only does software rendering so its never going to be faster than the iphone until the google devs start supporting 2d hardware acceleration (g1 has a graphics chip so it should be possible).
I personally don't find the g1 very sluggish. Maybe its sluggish compared to the iphone (I don't know as I don't have one to compare with), but on its own, the g1's UI is quite snappy (i'm running cyanogen ROM).
larrygates said:
Not that I'm asking for help about the sluggishness, it's just that the G1 is just overall way more sluggish than my friends iPhone 3G. As in web pages load WAY faster (Wifi on both devices being used). The UI is way more snappy.
Do you have a lot widgets running or background tasks? All those take up memory and cpu cycles which will end up slowing down the phone a lot.
And I understand the trade offs I'd get with an iPhone. No true multitasking or alerts from apps (like twitter email etc. . .) No Gmail push (I think) no Google Cal sync over the air, or contact sync OTA. All these things are great, but I dunno, I think I'm going to crossover into iPhone land soon. The G1 just became a let down for me after using it closely for about 6 months. And using other peoples iPhones on and off.
This is just a rant. And mostly I'm talking about browser load speeds and UI. It would be nice if Google maps oriented the direction we're facing since it has a compass. But the new update is moving in the right direction. Love the walking directions. But I think I'm gonna move on to 1 app at a time, Draconian app approval, HYPE land, release 5 HW revisions before making a new product, iPhone land.
Any Takers. Who can refute my arguments. I'm using Google Ion ROM also.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here's my take:
I love the iphone ! I think it's the best comsumer phone (and i'm not kidding). The 1 app at a time applies to G1 too (almost): try playing Mafia then going to the browser (or another game) and back... Good luck with that !
Now the reason i use the G1 is that i NEED to be connected to yahoo messenger, i NEED to have my tweets as soon as they come (i use twitter for work). And i NEED a hardware keyboard. And i NEED weather on a widget, and background downloading of RSS feeds (NewsRob). And i NEED better integration between apps (i'll explain).
When Push notifications come to the iphone, things are going to change. It will be very close to what i have now on my G1. The only things missing would be the RSS thing and the HW keyboard.
About the integration: I can click share on a picture, and it will list the programs that can do something with it (like Twidroid). I really like this, and there are more examples.
Now, what you have to ask yourself is: What do YOU need ? When you know that, you'll know what you have to choose.
Bah, long post. I hate long posts.
Do you find the G1 UI significantly more sluggish than the iphone?
RPG0 said:
Here's my take:
I love the iphone ! I think it's the best comsumer phone (and i'm not kidding). The 1 app at a time applies to G1 too (almost): try playing Mafia then going to the browser (or another game) and back... Good luck with that !
Now the reason i use the G1 is that i NEED to be connected to yahoo messenger, i NEED to have my tweets as soon as they come (i use twitter for work). And i NEED a hardware keyboard. And i NEED weather on a widget, and background downloading of RSS feeds (NewsRob). And i NEED better integration between apps (i'll explain).
When Push notifications come to the iphone, things are going to change. It will be very close to what i have now on my G1. The only things missing would be the RSS thing and the HW keyboard.
About the integration: I can click share on a picture, and it will list the programs that can do something with it (like Twidroid). I really like this, and there are more examples.
Now, what you have to ask yourself is: What do YOU need ? When you know that, you'll know what you have to choose.
Bah, long post. I hate long posts.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
dwang said:
Do you find the G1 UI significantly more sluggish than the iphone?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If i were to rate UIs of phones (based ONLY on smoothness) i would give the iphone an 9/10 and the G1 a 8/10.
The thing is... actually the difference mostly comes from the touchscreen sensitivity. There are two bad things about the G1 here:
SPOILER ALERT: After reading you might notice new bad things about your G1...
1. Try touching the screen with a small part of your finger (the very tip) and you'll see it won't register. This happens more in real life than you would think...
2. Try opening the notification bar SLOWLY and you'll see it shakes as you move your finger. If you stop mid-way it will shake most of the time... Actually any list will shake if you drag it and then stop... kinda cheap.
3. The sides of the screen in portrait have a "snap" zone. Try moving an icon to one side, and it will stop folowing your finger at a moment, then it will snap to the border. (On my phone this only happens on the right side. On the left side it's worse. I CAN'T register touch on the edge there. It's a nightmare to move an icon to a screen to the left.).
I knew HTC was bad news when i dug deeper into my Kaiser.
So.. G1 actually 7/10... Android on a good phone 8-8.5/10.
Yes this is exactly what I'm talking about. I'm not very in the know, but I do know how to follow directions and root phones. But YES the missing HW acceleration is felt when I go from iPhone to G1. It's unsettling. But . . .
dwang said:
The g1 does seem to get sluggish over time. I would try a wipe. That should restore the speed of the phone.
However, there's no getting around the performance of the iphone as it supports 2d hardware acceleration. The g1 and android only does software rendering so its never going to be faster than the iphone until the google devs start supporting 2d hardware acceleration (g1 has a graphics chip so it should be possible).
I personally don't find the g1 very sluggish. Maybe its sluggish compared to the iphone (I don't know as I don't have one to compare with), but on its own, the g1's UI is quite snappy (i'm running cyanogen ROM).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You gave pretty much all the reasons I waited for the G1 and went with it. I knew it acted more like a computer and actually integrated different api's into 1 whole (if you will). Or let the app devs get to the api's. But I like having my feeds come to me without thinking, I like twitter updates, I love gmail being like my old blackberry exchange solution. I WISH live maps or mesh or whatever it's called for Windows Mobile 6.1 would come to android. Someone asked about widgets etc. I disabled all widgets, actually I wiped to a clean Ion Rom that isn't running anything in the background but essentials. It's the HW accel I'm thinking, and the sensitivity of the touch screen. It's great on the iPHone. These were the replies I was looking for. Just something to chomp on before I make any moves. Cause I'm seriously thinking about making that move. I'll lose a lot though. But I'll gain a lot back.
Oh yeah, how come maps on the G1 doesn't auto orient like the iPhone does now. We have a compass, and the new maps is better, at least it shows the direction, but I have to rotate the phone though.
RPG0 said:
Here's my take:
I love the iphone ! I think it's the best comsumer phone (and i'm not kidding). The 1 app at a time applies to G1 too (almost): try playing Mafia then going to the browser (or another game) and back... Good luck with that !
Now the reason i use the G1 is that i NEED to be connected to yahoo messenger, i NEED to have my tweets as soon as they come (i use twitter for work). And i NEED a hardware keyboard. And i NEED weather on a widget, and background downloading of RSS feeds (NewsRob). And i NEED better integration between apps (i'll explain).
When Push notifications come to the iphone, things are going to change. It will be very close to what i have now on my G1. The only things missing would be the RSS thing and the HW keyboard.
About the integration: I can click share on a picture, and it will list the programs that can do something with it (like Twidroid). I really like this, and there are more examples.
Now, what you have to ask yourself is: What do YOU need ? When you know that, you'll know what you have to choose.
Bah, long post. I hate long posts.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The iphone 3gs does look pretty great, but I'm not switching from tmobile to att just for the iphone. There's going to be some nice android phones coming down the line, hopefully with upgraded cpu and memory to match the pre and 3gs. That should narrow the performance differences significantly. And hopefully android 2.0 (donut) finally implements 2d hardware acceleration.
larrygates said:
Yes this is exactly what I'm talking about. I'm not very in the know, but I do know how to follow directions and root phones. But YES the missing HW acceleration is felt when I go from iPhone to G1. It's unsettling. But . . .
You gave pretty much all the reasons I waited for the G1 and went with it. I knew it acted more like a computer and actually integrated different api's into 1 whole (if you will). Or let the app devs get to the api's. But I like having my feeds come to me without thinking, I like twitter updates, I love gmail being like my old blackberry exchange solution. I WISH live maps or mesh or whatever it's called for Windows Mobile 6.1 would come to android. Someone asked about widgets etc. I disabled all widgets, actually I wiped to a clean Ion Rom that isn't running anything in the background but essentials. It's the HW accel I'm thinking, and the sensitivity of the touch screen. It's great on the iPHone. These were the replies I was looking for. Just something to chomp on before I make any moves. Cause I'm seriously thinking about making that move. I'll lose a lot though. But I'll gain a lot back.
Oh yeah, how come maps on the G1 doesn't auto orient like the iPhone does now. We have a compass, and the new maps is better, at least it shows the direction, but I have to rotate the phone though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
See I'm worried about that. Why wouldn't android have he hw accel. I'm using an iPhone now to post this. Hw key is good, but this iPhone is very nice. I'll try to hold out and see. But I'll take it up the a!! Yeah I'm getting one. A 3G S.
dwang said:
The iphone 3gs does look pretty great, but I'm not switching from tmobile to att just for the iphone. There's going to be some nice android phones coming down the line, hopefully with upgraded cpu and memory to match the pre and 3gs. That should narrow the performance differences significantly. And hopefully android 2.0 (donut) finally implements 2d hardware acceleration.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
larrygates said:
See I'm worried about that. Why wouldn't android have he hw accel. I'm using an iPhone now to post this. Hw key is good, but this iPhone is very nice. I'll try to hold out and see. But I'll take it up the a!! Yeah I'm getting one. A 3G S.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well you laid out the talking points pretty well in your first post (and frankly aside from multitasking, iPhone OS 3.0 has fixed a lot deficiencies), so if you're set on an iPhone, just go for it.
Frankly, if having used a G1 for a while you are still considering an iPhone, then the iPhone is probably a better product for you. Reasons such as avoiding being locked into Apple's closed ecosystem probably weren't ever a factor for you at all.
Hey thanks for the civil post. The last thing you said is a hard one along with at&t. Apple is pretty slick with marketing, and they're hardware upgrades really screw you. Plus I think one of the guys here said something about dual core chips in phones next year.
About the Eco system hopefully jailbreaking side steps a lot of the walls on the phone. We'll see. I need to wait some things out and see how the dev team comes along. Someone said I should look into the pre, but I wonder if its similar to the G1.
jashsu said:
Well you laid out the talking points pretty well in your first post (and frankly aside from multitasking, iPhone OS 3.0 has fixed a lot deficiencies), so if you're set on an iPhone, just go for it.
Frankly, if having used a G1 for a while you are still considering an iPhone, then the iPhone is probably a better product for you. Reasons such as avoiding being locked into Apple's closed ecosystem probably weren't ever a factor for you at all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Bah. This is only personal preference nonsense. Go get the iphone if ur tired of the g1.
larrygates said:
Hey thanks for the civil post.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just because i'm using and love the G1 doesn't mean the iPhone is a bad phone. I really don't have time to spend writing up a long convincing article why you should stay with the G1, let alone flame-coat it.
The last thing you said is a hard one along with at&t. Apple is pretty slick with marketing, and they're hardware upgrades really screw you. Plus I think one of the guys here said something about dual core chips in phones next year.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All hardware obsoletes, iPhone or otherwise. It's just a fact of tech life. If you constantly wait for the better hardware upgrade then you will never have any hardware at all.
About the Eco system hopefully jailbreaking side steps a lot of the walls on the phone. We'll see. I need to wait some things out and see how the dev team comes along. Someone said I should look into the pre, but I wonder if its similar to the G1.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Obviously the phone is better in some respects than others. But for example it will only sync with iTunes. I will never install iTunes or Quicktime ever again because they are poorly written pieces of spyware crap. Also, the cloud sync clearly prefers Mobile Me as the primary service. Remember when Mobile Me launched? It was a pile of cowpie. Even Apple admitted this.
The iPhone has a sleek interface and a powerful advertising machine behind it. That's why it and the iPod are such popular devices among consumers. However, being that I am an engineer by trade, I'm not so easily swayed by Apple's glitzy advertising. In that respect, iPhone's deficiencies, past and present come into stark contrast. For example, the inability to multitask userapps is just ridiculous. I actually want to receive my emails and instant messages in realtime, without having to open the Google App. Some people say "just use SMS", which opens up a whole new bag of rant about how SMS is the most ridiculous ripoff scheme ever...
One thing I want to mention regarding sluggishness is if u are running one of those third party home apps like dxtop or ahome, I would try uninstalling those and see if your sluggishness goes away. Also, badly written widgets can cause slowdowns as well. The g1 isn't as fast as the 3g but it really isn't that slow. Especially if u are running ion at 528mhz or cyanogens rom.
jashsu said:
Just because i'm using and love the G1 doesn't mean the iPhone is a bad phone. I really don't have time to spend writing up a long convincing article why you should stay with the G1, let alone flame-coat it.
All hardware obsoletes, iPhone or otherwise. It's just a fact of tech life. If you constantly wait for the better hardware upgrade then you will never have any hardware at all.
Obviously the phone is better in some respects than others. But for example it will only sync with iTunes. I will never install iTunes or Quicktime ever again because they are poorly written pieces of spyware crap. Also, the cloud sync clearly prefers Mobile Me as the primary service. Remember when Mobile Me launched? It was a pile of cowpie. Even Apple admitted this.
The iPhone has a sleek interface and a powerful advertising machine behind it. That's why it and the iPod are such popular devices among consumers. However, being that I am an engineer by trade, I'm not so easily swayed by Apple's glitzy advertising. In that respect, iPhone's deficiencies, past and present come into stark contrast. For example, the inability to multitask userapps is just ridiculous. I actually want to receive my emails and instant messages in realtime, without having to open the Google App. Some people say "just use SMS", which opens up a whole new bag of rant about how SMS is the most ridiculous ripoff scheme ever...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Out of curiosity, how is SMS the most ridiculous ripoff scheme ever?
Also, a friend of mine has a 3.0 beta developer firmware of the iPhone which allows multitasking. I myself found a cheap 4gb iPhone on Craigslist and am planning to unlock it for (most likely) a backup phone or business phone, when I've seen both phones and compared for about a week I'll post my findings here.
I was noticing the same sluggishness and such with the G1. You have to remember that, if you're like most users on the forum here, you -are- using an unsupported version of the phone, and it's not working how it's supposed to and how the provider intended for it to be used. Someone else mentioned this, but third-party apps also contribute to that. Depending on what you use, some apps could constantly be taking up extra memory and make your use of the G1 more of a chore, because of the time it takes to open up even a browser.
Anyway, to OP: You could just do what I did. Instead of spending $300 on a new iPhone that you have to dump out another extra $x-amount for new service at AT&Suck, why not just buy a used one on Craigslist or eBay and unlock it? Then you can use it with your current T-Mobile service and not have a lot of extra loss. You don't even need to get rid of your G1, just use one or the other as a backup or something.
If you are the kind of person who gets emotionally attached to the gadgets you buy, please stop reading this post.
I'm not trying to start an inflamed discussion about which is the best device or manufacturer.
I’m not an Apple fan, in fact, I hate being “Apple locked” and that’s one of the main reasons I’ve bought the Leo after owning an Eten x500, a Kaiser, a Blackstone and finally, an iPhone 3GS.
I could go over and over describing the differences and the pros and cons of each device but I won’t. I’ll just try to tell you guys a few things we don’t have to accept.
We don’t have to accept …
the endless steps (gold card, hardSPL, regEdit, dictionary hacks, you name it) needed to get the phone speaking your language. You just have to say: I want “THAT” system language and “THAT” input language and that’s it. That’s how it’s done on the iPhone. And I’m not talking 3 or 4 languages. I’m saying over 30 different languages and oh, you also have voice control on YOUR language. You don’t need to hack Voice Command…
an SMS conversation that gets all messages out of order (doesn’t HTC know how to do time calculations?)
a Gigahert processor which can’t smoothly scroll a web page. I know it’s probably due to bad Opera coding but… have you ever scrolled an iPhone Safari?
a whole bunch of bad designed apps which you can’t effectively control / interface with because Windows Mobile programmers really don’t seem to realize that “user friendlier” is better. Have you ever used a same App on both platforms? Take Trapster for example (It’s available at Micrsoft app store). The windows mobile version of it makes me feel sorry for the programmer while the iPhone version feels very nice. Of course this is not the only example…
a lot of small bugs on the first ROM. Apple got it right on the first and they had never (ever) built a phone before! How many phones will HTC have to make before they get a stock ROM right? The small things are often the most annoying...
I could go on but there is something I realized that made me feel really hopeless (yes, I would really like to like a Windows phone). While HTC (and other manufacturers) keeps on launching device after device in a short time frame and thus creating new bugs and issues to deal with, Apple keeps on improving its one and only iPhone OS, for its one iPhone device (ok, different versions but very similar) which keeps getting better and better.
While iPhone developers have to deal with interface and compatibility issues for 3 very similar devices, a Windows Mobile developer has to deal with hundreds of them, some very poorly designed and a few very good (like Leo) but in the end, there is no way to develop a very good app for so many devices without a huge effort (and cost). Also, developing an App exclusively for one Windows phone wouldn’t be cost effective as a single model doesn’t represent a large enough consumer market.
Apple, with the iPhone, didn’t create a device as we are used to. Instead, they created a product with a long roadmap, mature SDK, sufficient market share, providing the necessary ecosystem for developers all around the world to make it even better.
It won’t be possible for any manufacturer, using any OS, to compete with such a mature product if they don’t realize it’s not a device we need. It’s a product.
Sadly, I’m going back to my 3GS… (god I hate iTunes…)
fmcastro said:
a lot of small bugs on the first ROM. Apple got it right on the first and they had never (ever) built a phone before! How many phones will HTC have to make before they get a stock ROM right? The small things are often the most annoying...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Couldn't agree more on that.. Actually some people believed that HTC guys were deaf to provide us with such a loud distorted audio quality. I can't forgive HTC for the SMS bug.. I can't load all my SMS, device becomes really really slow and laggy.. How come they did not run a proper test to ensure their HTC Messaging application was working fine with dozens of SMS? This is really unprofessional. What where they busy with? The weather animation?
HTC support will contact me today to collect some symptoms and bugs I found but they did NOT ( as they claimed ).
Hopefully a hotfix will be available ASAP.
Xeon said:
Couldn't agree more on that.. Actually some people believed that HTC guys were deaf to provide us with such a loud distorted audio quality. I can't forgive HTC for the SMS bug.. I can't load all my SMS, device becomes really really slow and laggy.. How come they did not run a proper test to ensure their HTC Messaging application was working fine with dozens of SMS? This is really unprofessional. What where they busy with? The weather animation?
HTC support will contact me today to collect some symptoms and bugs I found but they did NOT ( as they claimed ).
Hopefully a hotfix will be available ASAP.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, one thing we can safely assume by now is that no one at HTC actually uses their devices. Unless they are all deaf, send and receive SMSs only to/from their one and only imaginary friend and probably spend too much of their time watching the weather channel...
fmcastro said:
Well, one thing we can safely assume by now is that no one at HTC actually uses their devices. Unless they are all deaf, send and receive SMSs only to/from their one and only imaginary friend and probably spend too much of their time watching the weather channel...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Some bugs are bearable.. I had too many with all my previous XDA/HTC phones. But for such basic bugs to be found, the device primary tasks ( phone calls / SMS ) should never be affected because it makes the device useless...
fmcastro said:
the endless steps (gold card, hardSPL, regEdit, dictionary hacks, you name it) needed to get the phone speaking your language. You just have to say: I want “THAT” system language and “THAT” input language and that’s it. That’s how it’s done on the iPhone. And I’m not talking 3 or 4 languages. I’m saying over 30 different languages and oh, you also have voice control on YOUR language. You don’t need to hack Voice Command…
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Uh... you do realise that the reason these hacks exist is because the HD2 probably hasn't been officially launched in the country / language of your choice, and that people are hacking so they can use the HD2 in their country sooner than as decided by the carrier?
fmcastro said:
an SMS conversation that gets all messages out of order (doesn’t HTC know how to do time calculations?)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's Microsoft's fault - having said that, I haven't had the problem with the HD2 itself - only the custom ROMS cooked with Leo packages on a Touch HD.
fmcastro said:
a whole bunch of bad designed apps which you can’t effectively control / interface with because Windows Mobile programmers really don’t seem to realize that “user friendlier” is better. Have you ever used a same App on both platforms? Take Trapster for example (It’s available at Micrsoft app store). The windows mobile version of it makes me feel sorry for the programmer while the iPhone version feels very nice. Of course this is not the only example…
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And this is more due to laziness on the developer's part and nothing to do with Windows MObile or the HD2 in general. Take a look at S2U2 - have you seen how nice the settings page is? Or GAlarm, *the* best alarm program ever.
fmcastro said:
a lot of small bugs on the first ROM. Apple got it right on the first and they had never (ever) built a phone before! How many phones will HTC have to make before they get a stock ROM right? The small things are often the most annoying...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed. Wish HTC would get their act together.
If you hate iTunes so much why not wait a few more months for the Xperia X10, running Android with Snapdragon? Or the Motorola DROID for that matter?
aussiebum said:
Uh... you do realise that the reason these hacks exist is because the HD2 probably hasn't been officially launched in the country / language of your choice, and that people are hacking so they can use the HD2 in their country sooner than as decided by the carrier?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Humm... not exactly. Most people here at XDA were trying to switch from an oficial ROM to another. That said, we're talking about official languages. I was trying to flash a WWE ROM on a french device for example. The HTC excuse for this terrible language mess is, of course, microsoft: "Unfortunately, due to licensing restrictions put in place by Microsoft, it is not legally possible for us the change the language of a device once it has been loaded" - Quoted from an HTC support email I received.
aussiebum said:
That's Microsoft's fault - having said that, I haven't had the problem with the HD2 itself - only the custom ROMS cooked with Leo packages on a Touch HD.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you realise it shouldn't matter whose fault it is? It's a faulty device sold by HTC, period. I don't feel any better knowing it's an OS fault.
aussiebum said:
And this is more due to laziness on the developer's part and nothing to do with Windows MObile or the HD2 in general. Take a look at S2U2 - have you seen how nice the settings page is? Or GAlarm, *the* best alarm program ever.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know but I think it's a bit more complicated as I said on the original post. Besides the laziness, WM developers face a too heterogeneous ecossystem that makes things really harder. "Ok, I've finished my app, now I just have to port it to 640x480, 480x640, 480x800, 800x480, 320x200, and who knows what else, despite the fact that standard WM UIs are really crap so every developer has to start from scratch if they want to make something look good. In short, only a few very brave souls will be capable of that.
aussiebum said:
Agreed. Wish HTC would get their act together.
If you hate iTunes so much why not wait a few more months for the Xperia X10, running Android with Snapdragon? Or the Motorola DROID for that matter?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because Android is not that good also. It seems like a better OS than WM but when it comes to user experience and, most important, a consistent user experience across all apps, it fails for the same reason WM fails. Lack of a product design and roadmap. It's just trying desperately to be installed on as most devices as it can.
Regards
And yet, the reasons people still use Winmo/Android is because the Iphone OS has serious deficiencies in some areas.
There is no perfect phone....all we can do is make the best of each OS.
Honestly you'd be better off with an iphone. I love my HD2 despite some minor problems, because I enjoy messing around with my phone. Also browsing the net on the HD2 is much faster than on the 3GS and you don't have to zoom in in order to read anything on the screen.
Let's not forget that the device is going to be upgradeable to winmo 7 as well.
Solution - keep HD2 and get ipod Touch - best of both worlds. Connect ipod via Wifi to HD2.
I owned iphone 3gs...
I read all you've been writing and i, as former iphone 3gs user, must say that everything you say is corect but... why don't you say to all of us why you gave up your iphone... or why you really hating go back to itunes... and of course why in the close future you'll give up again, and sell the iphone???
The answer, real answer is that with iPhone you have everything right in place as you say but there is no fun... no joy... like trying to have the best sex but not in the mood... if know what i mean...
I had moments when i pulled out my iphone, from my pocket, and i wanted to play arround with it and...come on, really boring!!!
Iphone is the best in terms of everyday use, but if wm 7 will get better in terms of use it's going to be a strong iphone killer!!!
I really like my HD2, in spite of all the hiccups, because it's fun, you can lose yourself for hours doing nothing but looking inside of it... settings, registry, HKLM, HKCU... does ring a bell, than entering here at xda and finding that someone did something and you hold your breath till you see if that is working or not...
I only say that i like playing... and HTC HD2 is giving me that!!! i don't need silly games to have fun from my device...
By the way...
No OS can have better handle of e-mail attachments than wm... for sure!!!
I HAVE NO REGRETS FOR SELLING IPHONE OVER HTC HD2!!!
Cheers!
jimbo29 said:
I really like my HD2, in spite of all the hiccups, because it's fun, you can lose yourself for hours doing nothing but looking inside of it... settings, registry, HKLM, HKCU... does ring a bell, than entering here at xda and finding that someone did something and you hold your breath till you see if that is working or not...
I only say that i like playing... and HTC HD2 is giving me that!!! i don't need silly games to have fun from my device...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for perfectly expressing my thoughts
Toss3 said:
Honestly you'd be better off with an iphone. I love my HD2 despite some minor problems, because I enjoy messing around with my phone. Also browsing the net on the HD2 is much faster than on the 3GS and you don't have to zoom in in order to read anything on the screen.
Let's not forget that the device is going to be upgradeable to winmo 7 as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I must say i have had an iphone 3g and i'm more happy with my HTC HD2. One of the reasons is because i simply think you pay way to much for the piece of hardware itself still no 5mpx camera while 8 is almost normal and 12 is high end. The new gs is worth more the money tough but the camera keeps me off and i kept hearing a annoying resonance while calling and the software isn't perfect as well and not that stable after a few days plus the battery life of the HTC HD2 is better as my iphone 3g and way better as the 3gs.
I like the default windows mobile software HTC Sense is annoying, camera flip, weather animations can't be turned off. Emails why show the email in the way it is shown now? i just rather had opened the whole email app so i can view the emails like your supposed to and not like a letter.
While calling you have to slide to get the extra options, why? there is a hang up button on screen wich you can press so why not the other buttons?
HTC tried to make a nice looking skin but not a functional one.
I use the default titanium skin with some modifications like a task manager added to the options and msn and the camera. But the apps for calling and the communications manager work great.
About windows mobile 7:
Windows mobile can be great. But i still have the idea they haven't learned from their mistakes. Look at the buttons a phone is supposed to have according to microsoft for windows mobile 7. a Pickup, a home, a start, a back and a hang up button. Why so many? Home and start could be one, 1 press to go home another to go to start and press again to go home again, simple and effective. Why a back button? when would you use that? Press the home button and your back in the home screen and applications usually have their own back button when needed. So pick-up home and hang-up would have been enough. Since Microsoft asks for these buttons they still think to complicated and i bet windows 7 will to complicated as well all though it will be more complete compared to 6.x.
But i love how i can change things to the user interface and multitasking is great, the iphone can't do that by default and that really sucks. And backgrounder that does make it possible, makes the phone more unstable as a windows mobile one. It is stupid windows mobile doesn't use it's greatest advantage for marketing and battling the iphone with it, this is where windows mobile could stand out with.
I'm writing this from my macbook on os x snow leopard and even i still prefer my windows mobile HTC HD2.
Windows Mobile 7 will simply use CE7 Kernel, compiled for new ARM CPUs and will use the new ARM instructions.
Now we're running Windows Mobile 6.5 that runs on CE5.2 kernel.
It's like running Windows98 on a Phenom X4 quadcore CPU
Even on other MSM chipsets that has got an ARM11 CPU, that potential isn't seen because of that.
When WM7 will be released, we'll see our device performance unleashed
I've had my HD2 for a week now and I must say I'm more than pleased with it. I did consider the iPhone as an option, but as I want to connect my phone to my Exchange Server then it was a no brainer to opt for a Windows Phone and the hardware specs of the HD2 are way above the iPhone. A big thing that put me off the iPhone was it's reliance upon iTunes to synchronise my calendar & contacts - it's dreadfully buggy toy software and I don't want a music application on my work PC.
If anyone has any doubts as to the iPhone's reliability and stability just Google "iPhone faults" and you'll see the problems users have experienced with their iPhones are considerable, with many being bricked through their hardware faults. Interestingly the most common reported faults are similar to those reported by the HTC dissenters such as slow SMS sending - maybe these are network issues? On top of that there's now the 'Astley' virus which Apple helpfully explain away as "the users' fault".
The emergence of open source Android phones whill hopefully spur the mainstream smartphone OS writers to concentrate their efforts on developing their own platforms. It's true to say that Microsoft haven't trerated their Windows OS as a mainstream product and there's still too much legacy code in 6.5, but it's still a decent OS for its intended purpose Hopefully that will be addressed in Version 7 which looks likely to be available to HD2 users as an (free?) upgrade. There's masses of quality third-party apps avaiable to maximise its smartphone potential for just about all users,.
There isn't a perfect smartphone out there and as we demand ever more features of them I doubt if there is likely to be in the forseable future, but the nice thing about the Windows Phone OS is that it is eminently hackable.
HD2 Simply Put...
Depth & Customization!
iphone got it right???
I remember hearing complaints about iphone for at least the first year, and as omneity says:
"If anyone has any doubts as to the iPhone's reliability and stability just Google "iPhone faults" and you'll see the problems users have experienced with their iPhones are considerable, with many being bricked through their hardware faults. Interestingly the most common reported faults are similar to those reported by the HTC dissenters such as slow SMS sending - maybe these are network issues? On top of that there's now the 'Astley' virus which Apple helpfully explain away as 'the users' fault' ".
fmcastro said:
We don’t have to accept …
5. a lot of small bugs on the first ROM. Apple got it right on the first and they had never (ever) built a phone before! How many phones will HTC have to make before they get a stock ROM right? The small things are often the most annoying...
Sadly, I’m going back to my 3GS… (god I hate iTunes…)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
p.s. I am a former Apple user. Iphone is more of Jobs' controlled user experience.
I couldn't stand it.
I find it ironic that Apple started out supporting open source while Gates worked hard at controlling users choice.
Now it is the reverse.
New things r always trapped in some trouble, and that's why i have paid close attention to leo, but i didn't buy it! im just waiting for a staid one.
To put it simply - the HD2 is the best phone I have ever used. I think it is awesome. I've had an iphone, etc - but the truth is there is no phone that hasn't got problems. The Iphone is falwed because it has no multi-tasking, crap camera, poor messaging (in my opinion), limited configurability, and its tied to iTunes which is horrible. The HD2 has non of the above. Yes it has flaws itself, but in my eyes less than any other phone out there at the moment.
Teneka_Khan said:
To put it simply - the HD2 is the best phone I have ever used. I think it is awesome. I've had an iphone, etc - but the truth is there is no phone that hasn't got problems. The Iphone is falwed because it has no multi-tasking, crap camera, poor messaging (in my opinion), limited configurability, and its tied to iTunes which is horrible. The HD2 has non of the above. Yes it has flaws itself, but in my eyes less than any other phone out there at the moment.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I FULLY agree with you ; I also have a iphone 3G 16 GB but is now in the drawer collecting dust. As saying goes, One man's meat is another man poison . No point debating about how good/bad the HD2 and iPhone and any other PDA. It will never end
As far as I am concerned , the HD2 is my choice now vs iPhone
gavinfabl said:
Solution - keep HD2 and get ipod Touch - best of both worlds. Connect ipod via Wifi to HD2.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep, I totally agree...and that's just what i've now done
I'm from India and nexus one isn't officially launched. I know that if I buy the unlocked version, I'll be able to use it here in my country. I just wanted to know what features of this phone would be blocked in my country (i don't think any). Will I be able to use the GPS? iPhone worked flawlessly but I'm not a big fan of apple. I just don't like it. I really wanted an N1, because of android OS (custom roms) and the hardware its offering. If there is anything more you guys want me to know about the phone, please enlighten me
Its better than the iphone... thats all you need to know
Its a great phone buy one
Hopefully this attempt is mature and coherent:
PROS-
Multitasking
Maps and free gps navigation are accurate and awesome
Having a desktop is great for widgets and other customizations
Camera has adequate megapixels
5 screens is convenient
Google's apps are useful
Some multitouch capability
Live wallpapers are very cool
UI screen transitions are swell
Having access to Google apps can be really convenient
Amoled display is beautiful indoors and at night
If you want to root the phone the possibilities are abundant
CONS-
The stock and third party keyboards are terrible, HTC keyboard is less awful
The touchscreen is jittery
The amoled display is invisible in sunlight
Cameras pictures aren't what they should be considering the hardware
Most third party apps are useless
Randomly reboots
Sending mms is unreliable
Utilizes half of the ram it is capable of using
Browser is, for lack of room to elaborate, "finicky" (dont expect it to resemble a pc's browser)
I have 3g and full bars where I live but I lose all signal in most buildings (probably tmobiles fault)
In general I prefer Google to Apple. The Nexus is one of the better phones out there, I initially thought it was the best for the first couple of weeks, I haven't rooted and new software problems present themselves routinely. Since so many of the issues appear to be software related, If Google becomes motivated to address the multitude of those issues they could make this phone hands down the best mobile device for a pretty long while.
uhh... Cool story bro?
Anyway, everything should work in india, except google voice and maps navigation, except you can get a working(albeit limited) version from this very website. Check with your service provider for their frequencies. The original n1 is 900/2100, and a new one is out that supports 850. So find that out before you buy.
You will not be disappointed by this device.
DMaverick50 said:
I'm a huge fan of android but the iPhone is better than the nexus and better than android so far, which is really pathetic because the nexus has better specs and Google had ample time to see what works best about the iPhone but they chose not to learn from the most successful mobile OS on the planet. I've really been holding out hope that android would get their **** together. the g1 and mytouch were fun and cute little phones but the nexus purported to be a 'superphone' it has super potential but id definitely rather have an iPhone 3gs. I can't even see the damn screen on full brightness when the suns out. Android is better for geeks, and that's cool but its not for me, I want a phone that is backed by its maker. I don't have time or interest in fixing my own phone or having 3 different browser apps to collectively do what safari does. Every day I find a new bug in the android software. My confidence in android takes a hit daily.Today's android failure I found in a gizmodo article about thickbuttons or whatever its called keyboard, the article indicated that the iPhone already uses that technology. Only it does it better because androids crappy third party app moves the buttons over it doesn't simply enlarge them, so the letter isn't where you expect it to be. I tried it and thought wow finally some innovation for android. But buttons move and it isn't useful, plus its already on the iPhone in a useful implementation. Im so tired of having to rely on ****ty third party apps to do what my phone should out of the box. I've stopped looking at 'just in' apps, 99.5% of them are useless. I'm tired of waiting for google to update android to utilize this expensive hardware. I've got a year until my contracts up, if android hasn't got their **** together by then I'm moving my family to the iPhone. I'm sorry to many of you who read this, I really do like android, but I've been with android since the g1 and its just not good enough.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I might have taken this post seriously if you didn't ramble and write like a 13 year old who just got his first phone.
Anyhow OP, I can't really see any features that you'll miss out on. I'm from the UK and apart from Google talk (US only), everything else works fine.
DMaverick50 said:
I'm a huge fan of android but the iPhone is better than the nexus and better than android so far, which is really pathetic because the nexus has better specs and Google had ample time to see what works best about the iPhone but they chose not to learn from the most successful mobile OS on the planet. I've really been holding out hope that android would get their **** together. the g1 and mytouch were fun and cute little phones but the nexus purported to be a 'superphone' it has super potential but id definitely rather have an iPhone 3gs. I can't even see the damn screen on full brightness when the suns out. Android is better for geeks, and that's cool but its not for me, I want a phone that is backed by its maker. I don't have time or interest in fixing my own phone or having 3 different browser apps to collectively do what safari does. Every day I find a new bug in the android software. My confidence in android takes a hit daily.Today's android failure I found in a gizmodo article about thickbuttons or whatever its called keyboard, the article indicated that the iPhone already uses that technology. Only it does it better because androids crappy third party app moves the buttons over it doesn't simply enlarge them, so the letter isn't where you expect it to be. I tried it and thought wow finally some innovation for android. But buttons move and it isn't useful, plus its already on the iPhone in a useful implementation. Im so tired of having to rely on ****ty third party apps to do what my phone should out of the box. I've stopped looking at 'just in' apps, 99.5% of them are useless. I'm tired of waiting for google to update android to utilize this expensive hardware. I've got a year until my contracts up, if android hasn't got their **** together by then I'm moving my family to the iPhone. I'm sorry to many of you who read this, I really do like android, but I've been with android since the g1 and its just not good enough.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
FFS learn to use paragraphs, Jesus Christ.
All I read was "I'm sorry to many of you who read this" -- yes, because of the eye strain
Maverick: You should really just make a thread outlining the OBJECTIVE flaws you see with the N1. You always complain, but it's never based on fact.
liam.lah said:
uhh... Cool story bro?
Anyway, everything should work in india, except google voice and maps navigation, except you can get a working(albeit limited) version from this very website. Check with your service provider for their frequencies. The original n1 is 900/2100, and a new one is out that supports 850. So find that out before you buy.
You will not be disappointed by this device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know google voice won't be available but why would map navigation not work here? It works on all other phones.
Most of the 2g networks function at 900/1800 MHz and 3g at 2100 MHz. So I guess, tmo version would work fine but I can get AT&T one to get the additional 850
Okay, I'm assuming you all bought your hero's for what it was capable of when you bought it, seeing as there were no confirmed updates from HTC and even Google scheduled yet, so why does the majority get annoyed when their phone misses out on the latest 2.2 update? It still has all the features you bought it for. Any update at all is a positive, no update is neutral since your phone didn't lose anything, it just didn't gain anything either. Besides the fact that our Hero's already have basic flash support and are ahead of most devices in functionality just because it was ahead of its time when it got released?
I am somewhere in the middle: somewhat content with my Android 1.5 Hero and somewhat annoyed at the lack of updates. I think the trouble all comes down to convergence. Let me toss a couple thoughts your way. Generally speaking, in the recent past people have:
1) Paid full price for a computer (laptop, desktop, etc) and then promptly go out at get what ever Internet service provider they want (cable DSL) etc. The computer works on any network.
2) Paid a reduced price for mobile phones for the trade off of signing a contract and being tied to a particular provider. In many cases, only certain phones are available on certain networks. This is the complete opposite of the computer case in #1
3) Expected that their computer will be upgradeable (for a fee) over the years, at least until the hardware becomes obsolete. I know I've had XP, Vista, and Windows 7 on the same machine.
4) Expected that if they wanted new features on a phone, they would need to get a new phone.
Now the phones and computers are, too some extent, converging into one device. If I use my Android phone to check email, twitter, facebook, etc and never make voice calls - is it really a phone? No, it is just another Internet connected device for which my expectations are typically that I can upgrade the device until the hardware becomes obsolete. I didn't necessarily say that should be free, but it should be possible.
Another aspect that people expect of their computers, is that they can load virtually any application designed for that OS. Even today, most applications (if not all?) written for Windows 7 still run on XP. With Android, the applications seem to have been tied to the OS. For example, with my 1.5 phone I still can't use Google Voice search or Google Goggles? Why? My phone has a camera and a microphone, but for some reason you need to have 1.6 for them. Same for the free Google Navigation. You need to have a later version - just to run an application.
Again, I am somewhere in the middle. I have been VERY pleased with my HTC Hero. At the same time, I sure would like Google Voice search, Navigation, multiple gmail accounts, etc. I might even be willing to pay to update it (much like Apple makes people pay for iPod Touch updates). But shelling out $600 for a new phone (I buy unlocked - which is much cheaper for me in the long run) for those features does not seem worth it.
The lesson learned might be to always by the Google phone (i.e. Nexus One or whatever comes next). Google are responsible for pushing out those updates and it seems to happen fast!
I bouth my Hero after I saw the HTC tweet that they are working on the 2.1.
Update from 2.1 to 2.2 is a natural function of Android - it's OTA friendly. If a manufacturer declares Android, it declares everything what goes with it. If they don't want to spend time on such minor updates as 2.2, they should declare that as well: Android without updates. And they have not. So people are angry for not getting what they expect. And the expectatons are absolutely reasonable. That's why I will NOT buy any other HTC device. I learned that they dont't treat us, customers, fairly. They are going to do the same exact thing with the Desire as well. Not going down that path again.
I personally haven't heard one person moaning about not getting 2.2.
But people are expecting 2.1 due to no updates being given on the OS since the handset was released. Hero users were promised a long time ago that we would be getting 2.1 due to 1.6 being skipped, whereas other, lower spec models had that update.
You don't know what functionality will be added two updates later, so not having them is neutral, no one is oblidged to update their products and they can be discontinued whenever they wish. Does it matter? No, you got the phone based on the features it had when you bought it, the phone doesn't all of a sudden get worse because it didn't get an update.
I for one will purchase another HTC device when I'm done with my hero, simply because they deliver the best product with the best feature set regarding android, if updates are slow oh well, I buy phones for what they are capable of at the time of purchase since I can't look into the future, and neither can you.
So - all you set out to do with your original post was anger people and not take into account other peoples point of view? I took some time to provide some rational arguments.
Dont you expect to get updates for your computer? Graphics Drivers? Network Drivers? Operating Systems? Surely you don't just by a new computer everytime you need that functionality. You expect either the OS Vendor or the computer manufacturer to provide updates - both to create new features and fix bugs.
Bug fixes yes, but as they said those will be provided, and no I don't expect additional features, sure I'll be happy with new features but I didn't expect them. Even though phones are getting closer and closer to being computers they aren't.
How are they different?
seshmaru said:
Okay, I'm assuming you all bought your hero's for what it was capable of when you bought it, seeing as there were no confirmed updates from HTC and even Google scheduled yet, so why does the majority get annoyed when their phone misses out on the latest 2.2 update? It still has all the features you bought it for. Any update at all is a positive, no update is neutral since your phone didn't lose anything, it just didn't gain anything either. Besides the fact that our Hero's already have basic flash support and are ahead of most devices in functionality just because it was ahead of its time when it got released?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was happy with it when I got it, it was after all the flagship HTC device of 2009. But then about a month later 1.6 came out, and HTC said they were working on an upgrade to 1.6. This was delayed, then 2.0 came out and HTC suggested they would upgrade to 2.0 instead. The same happened with 2.1. But you are correct that they never really announced any upgrades officially, it was just announced on there twitter stream. Which is half the problem really. They kept suggesting that they were working on an upgrade, but kept pushing it back. Had they just done the 1.6 upgrade and then stopped, I don't think half as many people would be annoyed.
What HTC did wrong here was to give inconsistent information, along with delays and then kept junking what they had done and telling people they were working on something better. As a result, people kept hanging on, and being told that if they just waited a little longer then they would get an upgrade. If HTC had just come clean and updated us with offical announcements, or had stuck with 1.6 and been honest about a lack of improvement, then people wouldn't still be waiting.
Also, if you look at the iPhone model, they may charge for upgrades but the original 2G iPhone has only just gone out of support. Given that the Hero was the 2009 flagship Android device, and was still being sold way into 2010, its a little hard to stomach the idea that its out of support so quickly.
tl;dr HTC kept pissing us around and making us wait just a little longer, when it could have just said "not going to happen, here is 1.6, sorry" and this is annoying.
Are we buying a piece of hardware which is only going to be bug fixed, or are we buying hardware which is going to be updated for a certain amount of time even after they're no longer selling it?
In my opinion we're not just buying hardware, we're buying a software package behind it. That software needs to be updated, otherwise some major killer feature in a slightly newer version isn't possible for you to get - such as Google navigation, can turn a 6 month old phone which has the hardware capability into a device which is so frustrating.
I expect my device to last around 2 years, various networks offer contracts on these devices for 2 years, I think it's fair to expect updates to smart phones for that duration. I wouldn't expect every feature to be supported (eg. no live wallpaper if the device can't handle it), but it should be updated so it's possible to run the latest apps on it.
The phone manufacturers need to be honest on how long they plan to support these things, because it is becoming an issue. People feel abandoned if they pay hundreds of pounds on a device and never get an update, whilst other users pay the same amount and get multiple updates. If HTC doesn't want to release updates then that's fine - I'll just consider it before buying the device.
clobber said:
I am somewhere in the middle: somewhat content with my Android 1.5 Hero and somewhat annoyed at the lack of updates. I think the trouble all comes down to convergence [snip].
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nice argument. I hadn't thought about the convergence issue. You might well have hit the nail on the head.
I see your point, but if you had gotten any other non android smartphone besides the iPhone you wouldn't be getting significant feature set updates either.
But some people bought the hero because HTC said they were working on 2.1 months ago, others bought it because it was advertised "Android" and assumed you'd get Android updates. Others bought it because it's a good phone, but to the first two groups of people, the promise of new features was a reason for buying.
People are annoyed because HTC won't provide an update they've said they're working on (2.1), which seems to be a marketing interference to get as many people to buy a new device, rather than keep using their all one.
Also annoying is that we're stymied from having a generic OS made with drivers for all sorts of mobile hardware, but that's more of a philosophical annoyance.
I'm ticked off at the lack of update, not because I think I deserve an update per se, but more because I think I deserve all the features to work properly on my phone, and they don't.
And it's not like I could have tried it before I bought it either...
I've been an HTC user since 2003 and have always promoted the brand, but I don't think I'll get another one after this.
FYI: This is a venting post, written spur of the moment. Probably rambling from point to point without proofreading or organizing thoughts. Don't even know if it will make sense to anyone.
In my haste to, you know, have the newest version of Android running on my Transformer, I totally destroyed it and cannot get it to be recognized in any USB form on my computer. There are tons of great ROMs built by the awesome development community, but I'm just sick of having to try out multiple ROMs just to find one that works without issues. IMO, the fault is split between Google and the hardware manufacturers. Google should force manufacturers to ship phones and tablets with stock Android. It is Google's system and they should have the control to do that. The manufacturers should be ashamed of themselves for not being able to release an update to the latest OS within a few weeks of the release, jellybean, and on a tablet that was only launched in the US in April 2011. Google should be ashamed for letting these manufacturers get away with running an outdated version on a device that is completely cabable of running the newest iteration. Had an official means of updating to Jellybean been available I would not have spent so much of my time rooting and testing ROMs to make sure I have a consistent user experience.
I look at Apple; the structure and consistency they have in regards to software updates. The first gen iPad received updates until iOS 5 for two years. Then you devices that are put out by Android manufacturers, new models are frequent and in the furry to try and saturate the market with tablets, they forget about the one that came out the day before. Too many screen sizes, different processors, causes developers to shy away. For example, there has yet to be a legitimate Spotify (which I use daily), twitter, Facebook tablet app. Even the official apps they do have for "tablets" are weak in the user interface compared to iPad apps.
I know the general public will probably never care that their phone/tablet doesn't receive the newest Android update, they call their phones "droids". That's because they don't know what they are missing since the manufacturers do not care about updating the firmware and they are running terrible skinned versions of the OS. I enjoy using my Galaxy Nexus on Verizon, but even that does not get updated from Google. Google needs to reassess how they distribute the OS and to who. Maybe it needs to be a little closed and vertical. It could help.
You have a very good point on it, I couldn't agree more with it.
But regarding the distribution of Android, I think that if the OS had to be the same on every phone/tablet, there wouldn't have a reason to exist so many different devices, it would be like Apple's iOS and its devices.
What makes the platform interesting is the fact that anyone can use it and alter some elements of it, a thing that you don't have in the strict control that Apple has on iOS.
Sent from my MB525 using xda app-developers app
I agree with you in certain points - as for update procedures in general.
I am still very annoyed by the update politics of the Transformer, since the officially offered upgrades caused so
many troubles for me, as random reboots and freezing ,......
On top of it, skilled people in this forum then manage to get nice kernels and ROMs done which are just
much better in performance and stability compared to stock, that you really do wonder who the heck ASUS is hiring
I found finally a stable combo for me based on ICS but failed so far for JB.
I am at the moment testing different JB EOS and kernel combos but experience still issues.
This can become indeed kind of boring....
Your view comparing the great support of Apple on the other hand I don't share completely. It is basically the same as for their Desktop/Laptops.
It is really so much easier to only support a handfulll of devices than thousands of different combinations. Sure, you have a point that
you benefit when you choose one of their devices. But bluntly I become afraid of the growing power of Apple, since I really embrace choice.
Their are always people who prefer a certain different device because it helps their needs ( look at all the different screen sizes for Android and
then check Apple), me I prefer e.g. HW keyboard for a mobile phone.
But then I prefer as well Linux and the choice to put together your preferred OS over a non-customizable MacOSX ...
BTW: I own as well Apple devices and this is not supposed to become a flame thread, please
At the end of the day its down to us as individuals what we buy.
The reviews are not always impartial but certainly a good starting point, but i find researching any product i buy before hand a must now a days.
Great example was when i had bought my gtab - if i had read about it properly i would have know Samsung are one of the worst for updates.....but then again none of the manufacturers promise any future upgrades - maybe again we are just expecting something that we were never told we were going to get??
Never had an issue with my TF but i agree you should not have to rely on a developers site to get "improved" versions of the software - but if i had an Ipad i would have no doubt jailbroken it to improve my ipad experience aswel, just like ive done in the past with ipod touches etc. Would i get another TF - yes - im looking to get the Infinity as i still feel that the Asus TF fits my needs and is still one of the best supported tablets out there.
So the moral of the story is nothings perfect, the infos out there......we just need to be a little more astute as individuals and put the time into looking at the pros and cons before we buy. We spend the money and make the choice - not Google, Asus or Apple.:good:
ultmontra08 said:
I totally destroyed it and cannot get it to be recognized in any USB form on my computer.
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That's more or less impossible unless you managed to corrupt the first few EMMC blocks that contain the apx mode code. Which you have to know what you're doing to wipe.
Boot into apx mode, install the naked apx driver, then use Easyflasher to flash back to stock
ultmontra08 said:
In my haste to, you know, have the newest version of Android running on my Transformer, I totally destroyed it and cannot get it to be recognized in any USB form on my computer. There are tons of great ROMs built by the awesome development community, but I'm just sick of having to try out multiple ROMs just to find one that works without issues
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ultmontra08 said:
I would not have spent so much of my time rooting and testing ROMs to make sure I have a consistent user experience.
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ultmontra08 said:
I know the general public will probably never care that their phone/tablet doesn't receive the newest Android update, they call their phones "droids". That's because they don't know what they are missing
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You don't need to update Android unless it's a big jump like going from Honeycomb to Ice Cream Sandwich going to all that trouble to Root, Install a custom Recovery, Install a custom ROM for a minor update like Jelly Bean is silly what could you possibly need from Jelly Bean that Ice Cream Sandwich can't already do I bet the only reason is "It's the latest" and Asus are officially going to release Jelly Bean for the Transformer.
ultmontra08 said:
There are tons of great ROMs built by the awesome development community, but I'm just sick of having to try out multiple ROMs just to find one that works without issues.
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Unfortunately if you want to use something other then the stock ROM it's a process of trial and error I tried Android Revolution HD ROM for example (popular ROM) and had problems with my Transformer not responding in sleep mode and random reboots I found that Cyanogenmod was stable for my device every device is different so the trial and error process is unavoidable.
ultmontra08 said:
IMO, the fault is split between Google and the hardware manufacturers. Google should force manufacturers to ship phones and tablets with stock Android. It is Google's system and they should have the control to do that.
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ultmontra08 said:
I enjoy using my Galaxy Nexus on Verizon, but even that does not get updated from Google. Google needs to reassess how they distribute the OS and to who. Maybe it needs to be a little closed and vertical. It could help.
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Google Android is licensed as an open source operating system so Google doesn't have any power to tell manufactures they can't make their own version of Android to sell with their hardware or when you receive updates that's all the manufacturer.
ultmontra08 said:
since the manufacturers do not care about updating the firmware.
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Asus have actually been great with Android updates for the Transformer just a bit slow.
ultmontra08 said:
The manufacturers should be ashamed of themselves for not being able to release an update to the latest OS within a few weeks of the release, jellybean, and on a tablet that was only launched in the US in April 2011.
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You don't understand that it takes time to develop and test a new operating system on a device the process isn't as simple as you think it is you wouldn't want to suddenly get an update from Asus and then be complaining that it's unstable would you?.
ultmontra08 said:
there has yet to be a legitimate twitter, Facebook tablet app
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If you are using a Tablet the screen is wide enough to be able to acceptably use a web browser for these tasks so you don't really need a specific App developed, it's really only necessary for Mobile due to small screens.
ultmontra08 said:
I look at Apple; the structure and consistency they have in regards to software updates. The first gen iPad received updates until iOS 5 for two years. Then you devices that are put out by Android manufacturers, new models are frequent and in the furry to try and saturate the market with tablets, they forget about the one that came out the day before. Too many screen sizes, different processors, causes developers to shy away.
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If you prefer Apple feel free to switch but while having a range of hardware options does have it's down falls it gives you and developers more freedom and choice where as Apple will always have a small limited choice range.
Just get a Windows Phone or Windows 8 tablet. I am too, one of those who are totally sick about Android.
You know, I bought Asus Transformer TF101 right on launch and YOU HAVE NO idea how excited I am. But things started to change after using it for a day, lags, crashes, limited apps.
I've been waiting and waiting for months before ICS came, but a lot of issues are still left unresolved. Asus firmware is very prone to crashes.
I've been flashing ROM after ROM and wasted so many days on this... No way I will ever get an Android again.
LastBattle said:
Just get a Windows Phone ....
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Talk about limited apps...
Eh, the way I look at it, ill have this tablet forever and by the time its so scratched and old I can give it to my kids and I can get the latest and greatest NEXUS having learned my lesson buying non NEXUS.
Sent from my SCH-I510 using xda app-developers app
im on jb rom from team EOS, this is the only jb rom i use until now. using nova launcher makes it almost perfect buttery smooth (perfect without Widgets on the screen) .
it's easy to find good rom without having to try all of them. just read people's comment. go to last page and see how many complaints user's has.
Using the EOS build 74 with KAT 1.4 and nothing else yields a Transformer that works perfectly for me minus the GPS. I know that people with the dock have a different set of issues but honest, my TF with EOS and KAT runs better than any stock ROM. The difference is amazing. Web browsing is very very fast, I can play all my 720P videos via SMB streaming with BSplayer.
So after more than a year my TF works as I expected it to out of the box.
ultmontra08 said:
I totally destroyed it and cannot get it to be recognized in any USB form on my computer.
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Have you tried Wheelie?
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1676845
Android Revolution HD and be done with it. Why the need for the latest and greatest when you can use what works? I used to be an HTC fanboy, until I got the mytouch 4g slide. I hated that phone so much. I love Sense, but just the phone was.... eh. I'm very happy with my Galaxy S3. I feel like I should have opted for the Nexus, but I'm happy with my purchase.
I still have a G1 sitting on my dresser with a charged battery just in case I feel like rockin it oldschool. I'm an OG Android user. Been using android ever since the release of the G1. I do love vanilla android, but what Samsung did with TouchWiz is just short of amazing. I used to run MIUI on my HTC Vision, I ran it for a few hours on my S3, and had to go back to TouchWiz!!
And what was posted earlier, why are you using apps on a tablet when the browser works perfectly for all those websites? Apps are more of a phone thing, screen sizes sub-5"
The update from Honeycomb to ICS was a huge one and we got it, it was not bug free but good enough to get developers working. JB is not that big update unless you need Google Now.
wow i dont know where to start. i really dont want to turn this into an ios vs android flame war. but youre completly out of your mind. first of all you have to look at it from the carriers, hardware manf, and googles point of veiw.
now hardware manuf. , and carriers have it in their best interest to not release updates for all the previous gen devices from a year or two ago, even if they are capable of running the new versions. this way the new devices look more attractive to current and potential customers.
another thing is that you cant really compare the updates from iphone-iphone3g-iphone3gs-iphone4-iphone4s-iphone5-and probably in a couple months the iphone5s that wont do anything more exciting than the last model did. same thing with the ipads. before you know it you have a drawer full of iphones that look the same and dont really do anything different.
then you have android. approx 800,000 new android devices are activated every day. EVERY EFFIN DAY. now thats insane.
how many devices that didnt originally come with ios can now run ios better than they ran their org stock os? for example there are tons of devices that came stock with windows mobile/symbian/webos etc etc and they can now run many different versions of android.
my htc HD, my htc HD2, my hp touchpad, and those are just the ones ive owned. theres tons of others that were given new life because of android and the dev community.
another thing that doesnt make sense is how you can blame google, and the hardware manufacturers and the carriers for 3rd party apps that they have no involvement in. there are millions of developers making millions of apps for millions of devices. its not googles job to make sure they run perfectly on every device. thats the deveolpers fault if facebook app works better on one device than it does on another.
you see iphone and ipad apps dont really have that problem because all the devices are exactly the same. screen size/resolution doesnt change very much at all, and new features are a bore. "oh yay the new iphone can make face time calls over a cell connection and isnt limited to wifi anymore" so what they should have been able to do that years ago.
its also not googles or the hardware manuf. fault if you knowingly go against their waranty terms and screw up your device. thats the risk you knew was there. and its part of the learning process. things like unlocking bootloaders, building custom roms, modifying hardware, cross compiling drivers and kernels, overclocking, and overall getting he most out of your device, is not for kids.
yes the typical ios fanboy just wants to get his facebook updates and be able to locate the nearest starbucks, or genius bar, just by asking siri.
but the android dev comunity and the devices they work on are doing it right. why should you be told what you can and cant do with your device? why should you pay more for a device that only does less. why should you sleep on the sidewalk for 7 days to be first in line to get the new lame updated iphone that costs double and doesnt do double.
the hp touchpad is a great example of an awesome device that was on sale for 99-150 dollars from hp. it currently runs ICS like a champ, and will be getting JB roms that rock. i also have a tf101 asus that runs JB eos like WHOA! overclocked on both cores, awesome tegra2 chip. expandable memory, AND A NORMAL HEADPHONE PORT AND USB PORT. even a nice little hdmi port. its an old device already and it still blows he doors off any current gen ipad.
then theres the newer mk802 devices and hackberry A10 boards that will do anything a high end smartphone will do for 50 bucks and hooks right up to your tv. LETS see apple tv or roku do that.
bottom line is that you dont understand how this really works, and youre getting frustrated and giving up instead of learning and becoming better and the tech.
YOU EITHER MASTER TECHNOLOGY OR TECHNOLOGY WILL MASTER YOU!! thats all for now.
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redrol said:
Using the EOS build 74 with KAT 1.4 and nothing else yields a Transformer that works perfectly for me minus the GPS. I know that people with the dock have a different set of issues but honest, my TF with EOS and KAT runs better than any stock ROM. The difference is amazing. Web browsing is very very fast, I can play all my 720P videos via SMB streaming with BSplayer.
So after more than a year my TF works as I expected it to out of the box.
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yeah i just updated with eos jb rom today and its so much faster than the stock asus ics rom. i was really surprise, because its still got a ways to go.
---------- Post added at 11:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:38 PM ----------
Then you devices that are put out by Android manufacturers, new models are frequent and in the furry to try and saturate the market with tablets, they forget about the one that came out the day before. Too many screen sizes, different processors, causes developers to shy away.
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just to clarify a couple of things. There's no such thing as Android Manufacturers. well i guess with the exception of googles devices that they release is as close as you could come to calling them and android manufacturer, but the rest are not Android manufacturers. and when you think about it the screen sizes are usually pretty consistent even across different hardware manuf. you had 2.8"/3.5"/3.8"/ 4.2's were common for a while. now youre seeing mini tablet/phones in the 4.7-5+ range. but there arent that many sizes to worry about development wise. same with tablets. 7"-8"-9.7"-10.1" etc etc. same with the cpu and gpu arcitecture. you got your arms, your tegras, your mali 400's, etc etc theres an android device for everyone for anything.
i also love how my buddies iphone 5 wont display netflix properly or pandora correctly on the new screen size/dimension. maybe the iphone5s ver. 2.1 will have fixed that. in a couple years.
I know the general public will probably never care that their phone/tablet doesn't receive the newest Android update, they call their phones "droids". That's because they don't know what they are missing since the manufacturers do not care about updating the firmware and they are running terrible skinned versions of the OS. I enjoy using my Galaxy Nexus on Verizon, but even that does not get updated from Google. Google needs to reassess how they distribute the OS and to who. Maybe it needs to be a little closed and vertical. It could help.
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the general public doesnt care that their phones arent getting the newest rom/kernel versions although alot of them do. android seems to realease new versions as the hardware advances. they grow with the advancing power and abilities of devices. you wouldnt really expect a first generation tmobile g1 to run the latest jellybean version would you? its almost as if the hardware cannot really come out faster than the os to support it. everytime you hear of a new android version theres a whole new generation of way better spec'd devices that shortly follow. sorta opposite of apple, they release devices that are barely on par with devices that were released over 6 months ago or longer. if carriers dont want o update devices in order to entice customers to upgrade then i understand that. theyre in business to make a profit. i really dont see how restricting and limiting android would help in any way at all. thats the great thing about android. its just linux with a few things on top. and that is the nail in the coffin right there. unlimited customization and hackability.
haxin said:
YOU EITHER MASTER TECHNOLOGY OR TECHNOLOGY WILL MASTER YOU!! thats all for now.
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AMEN!