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Dear XDA members,
I am sure you have all observed the slew of attacks that are being perpetuated against the HD2 specifically, and the Windows Mobile OS generally. You have all read & responded to these people and might have observed the peculiar bands of Senior/Junior Members -whose too RECENT joining date is a clue- simultaneously bashing the HD2 and praising the iPhone, thwarting our delight in buying and using HTC's fine products which we have all known, used, and enjoyed for nearly a decade now.
You have all noticed this sudden but uniform "flame war", I know because I have; and you have all observed Genuine XDA members being rallied and engaged in mass, uniform, and disdainful complaining about WinMo and HTC. While it is our reasonable right to address HTC & MS with our problems, we must conduct our messages (and ourselves) in a civilized manner.
I only hope to remind you to be careful and not fall into this trap.
There IS a smear-campaign going on against both the HD2 and Windows Mobile. In truth, I am aware of several people whose primary profession is to perpetuate Internet propaganda, especially in active forums, blogs, and review sites. These individuals sell their services to companies & other individuals alike. They steal from us our brotherly spirit with their flame wars, and they feed us false information about exaggerated faults in our expensive gadgets.
In reality, all mobile devices have their faults; whether it be an unfriendly UI, lack of basic but important functionalities, erratic behaviors, etc...
iPhones, Androids, Nokias, and Winows Phones... we have all used them; we have each decided which best suits our needs, and we have each purchased what we judged best. Let no one criticize your choice or undermine your ability to decide for yourself! We are not here to measure which phone is best, we are here because we have purchased the best, and still, wish to improve it or customize it or even re-invent it!
Cheers
well i switched from the iphone to the hd2 and i don't think i'll be switching back anytime soon unless iphone fixes its major flaws...
do you know that iphone doesn't support multi-tasking?
what a deal breaker!
jeRrRKKKK said:
well i switched from the iphone to the hd2 and i don't think i'll be switching back anytime soon unless iphone fixes its major flaws...
do you know that iphone doesn't support multi-tasking?
what a deal breaker!
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LOL... I know mate, I gave mine away as a gift after one month! Its not for me at all and my personal, unquestionable preference is WinMo. I travel lots and need a Business phone: auther & edit documents, presentations, do my spreadsheet calculations, cut & paste accross running apps, make PDFs and fax them away, access my exchange email, use my digital certificates for security, etc... For me, personally, the iPhone was a delightful multimedia experience, but it just doesn't cut it!
shirreer said:
Dear XDA members,
I am sure you have all observed the slew of attacks that are being perpetuated against the HD2 specifically, and the Windows Mobile OS generally. You have all read & responded to these people and might have observed the peculiar bands of Senior/Junior Members -whose too RECENT joining date is a clue- simultaneously bashing the HD2 and praising the iPhone, thwarting our delight in buying and using HTC's fine products which we have all known, used, and enjoyed for nearly a decade now.
You have all noticed this sudden but uniform "flame war", I know because I have; and you have all observed Genuine XDA members being rallied and engaged in mass, uniform, and disdainful complaining about WinMo and HTC. While it is our reasonable right to address HTC & MS with our problems, we must conduct our messages (and ourselves) in a civilized manner.
I only hope to remind you to be careful and not fall into this trap.
There IS a smear-campaign going on against both the HD2 and Windows Mobile. In truth, I am aware of several people whose primary profession is to perpetuate Internet propaganda, especially in active forums, blogs, and review sites. These individuals sell their services to companies & other individuals alike. They steal from us our brotherly spirit with their flame wars, and they feed us false information about exaggerated faults in our expensive gadgets.
In reality, all mobile devices have their faults; whether it be an unfriendly UI, lack of basic but important functionalities, erratic behaviors, etc...
iPhones, Androids, Nokias, and Winows Phones... we have all used them; we have each decided which best suits our needs, and we have each purchased what we judged best. Let no one criticize your choice or undermine your ability to decide for yourself! We are not here to measure which phone is best, we are here because we have purchased the best, and still, wish to improve it or customize it or even re-invent it!
Cheers
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Click to collapse
Mate you have too much free time on your hands to be writing a post of this nature.
Here Here!
Keep on looking behind you guys....they're coming. Keep those firewalls up to date and lock your windows!
Oh and don't forget your medication.
Regardless of whether it's a smear campaign or not, there is clearly a problem with trolls.
I don't believe that's a campaign, but the recent trend of bashing Windows Mobile is alarming.
No OS and no phone is perfect, yet only Windows Mobile gets bashed all the time - though others clearly have at least as many flaws.
That's really saddening.
The amount of "I sold my HD2" threads, that typically contain only FUD and don't try to help anyone, is alarming as well.
Regardless of whether this is a campaign or not, someone should really do something against this trend and the trolls, because it really hurts the quality of the forum.
Wow. You know it's quite scary to see what happens to people that spend too much time on a forum!! This isn't such an intense matter. It's supposed to be a forum for people to ask for help or If they chose so, to complain about or praise their damn phones. At the end of the day it's only a damn phone. If some "senior" members want to make it an exclusive "I love windows mobile and want to make love to it" forum, then why not create an exclusive area for you all to j££zz over your devices.
The majority of people here are normal guys who have a life and only come here to get help for their phone or let off some steam if what they spent 500 quid on turns out to be crap!
hawrai68 said:
Wow. You know it's quite scary to see what happens to people that spend too much time on a forum!! This isn't such an intense matter. It's supposed to be a forum for people to ask for help or If they chose so, to complain about or praise their damn phones. At the end of the day it's only a damn phone. If some "senior" members want to make it an exclusive "I love windows mobile and want to make love to it" forum, then why not create an exclusive area for you all to j££zz over your devices.
The majority of people here are normal guys who have a life and only come here to get help for their phone or let off some steam if what they spent 500 quid on turns out to be crap!
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+100 for you sir
I know I'm new here and basically just started posting but I have heavily modified my HD2. I'm in the usa and imported my HD2 from the UK. I dont even miss 3G...I just connect to WiFi everywhere I go anyway. I have had every iPhone since it came out in 07. 2G, 3G and finally the 3Gs. I switched to the HD2 because I wanted what the iPhone lacked. I even Jailbroke all my iphones and they still were not as good as this phone is. The iphone did a whole lot more once jailbroken; ie.. Theme, Tether, Multitask but it still wasnt enough for me. The iphone is completely 1 dimensional! I liked it for what it was, but I love this phone! and using this site made it that much better. So a huge shout out to all you devs out there! Bottom line is the iPhone just sucks and it is a Yuppy phone, everyone has one and they think they are sooooo cool that they have one. The HD2 is the best phone on the market. Hands down.
I've been using these things for years... and the more popular these devices get, the more accessible they are to the general public, the more people demand help or think they have a right to it...with trivial little things!
The iPhone is just for those sort of people. Thinking that they have an iPhone (which, OMG is a SMRT PHONE, I R A GEEK NOW! I R COOL) because it's what is 'trendy'. Not becuase they will even use a quarter of it's functionality!!!
I have watched the questions on these forums get dumber and dumber. They say there is no such thing as a dumb question... I really beg to differ. I see some doozies on here of late to the point when I have to convince myself that they are trolling....or i'll loose faith in humanity.
I'll stop here as I don't think I have a coherent argument or statement.
Thankyou for indulging me in my rant.
I'm going to go find some more iPhone zombies and make them jealous of my HD2....
I assume you are not "general public" but some deity with divine right to own a WM device over others?
hawrai68 said:
Wow. You know it's quite scary to see what happens to people that spend too much time on a forum!! This isn't such an intense matter. It's supposed to be a forum for people to ask for help or If they chose so, to complain about or praise their damn phones. At the end of the day it's only a damn phone. If some "senior" members want to make it an exclusive "I love windows mobile and want to make love to it" forum, then why not create an exclusive area for you all to j££zz over your devices.
The majority of people here are normal guys who have a life and only come here to get help for their phone or let off some steam if what they spent 500 quid on turns out to be crap!
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Awesome! *thumbs up*
hawrai68 said:
I assume you are not "general public" but some deity with divine right to own a WM device over others?
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LoL. You betcha, sunshine.
I'm gonna take EVERY oppertunity to laud it over anyone, cause my phone choice totally defines me and proves my worth to others, don't ya know...
Sheesh....
kruegz said:
cause my phone choice totally defines me and proves my worth to others, don't ya know...
Sheesh....
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hmmm scary. I would have thought there were slightly better ways to prove your worth to others than a mobile, but each to their own hey.
isn't this the same as http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=5121561
hawrai68 said:
Wow. You know it's quite scary to see what happens to people that spend too much time on a forum!! This isn't such an intense matter. It's supposed to be a forum for people to ask for help or If they chose so, to complain about or praise their damn phones. At the end of the day it's only a damn phone. If some "senior" members want to make it an exclusive "I love windows mobile and want to make love to it" forum, then why not create an exclusive area for you all to j££zz over your devices.
The majority of people here are normal guys who have a life and only come here to get help for their phone or let off some steam if what they spent 500 quid on turns out to be crap!
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Click to collapse
VERY VERY wrong.
1) It happens almost never that someone creates a thread called "I love windows mobile and want to make love to it" though those people are definitely the majority here.
2) Why should there be an exclusive forum for people who love their devices, when people like you are allowed to create countless threads bashing those devices?
3) No, it's not okay to let off steam, unless it's within a thread that exists for this purpose (note: there should be max. one such thread!). Opening threads for things that have already been posted is not allowed, but that's exactly what you are doing!
So what's the conclusion?
1) We, who like our devices, don't go to iPhone forums and tell people that we hate iPhones. We don't because doing so is sick. However, lots of people in this forum come here to tell everyone how much they hate their HD2s. There's clearly something wrong!
2) Countless threads are created saying "I hate my HD2", though the haters clearly are a minority. What does that tell us about those people? Apart from the fact that it's not allowed to create new threads for things that are already there, we must also ask ourselves why people who like their devices don't feel the need to tell everyone, but people who don't like them must tell everyone. To me, that's a clear sign that there's something wrong with those haters or that there are some trolls here.
3) Threads that are created solely for the purpose of "letting steam off" do not help anyone! Of course people must be informed about flaws, BUT it doesn't help anyone when lots of threads are created for the sake of complaining about flaws that are already well-known. A thread must either inform or seek for a solution, threads created only in order to complain about or bash something are useless and hurt the quality of the forum.
hawrai68 said:
hmmm scary. I would have thought there were slightly better ways to prove your worth to others than a mobile, but each to their own hey.
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Methinks your sarcasm detector needs adjusting, matey.
maati said:
VERY VERY wrong.
1) It happens almost never that someone creates a thread called "I love windows mobile and want to make love to it".
2) Why should there be an exclusive forum for people who love their devices, when people like you are allowed to create countless threads bashing those devices?
3) No, it's not okay to let off steam, unless it's within a thread that exists for this purpose (note: there should be max. one such thread!). Opening threads for things that have already been posted is not allowed, but that's exactly what you are doing!
So what's the conclusion?
1) We, who like our devices, don't go to iPhone forums and tell people that we hate iPhones. We don't because doing so is sick. However, lots of people in this forum come here to tell everyone how much they hate their HD2s. There's clearly something wrong!
2) Countless threads are created saying "I hate my HD2", though the haters clearly are a minority. What does that tell us about those people? Apart from the fact that it's not allowed to create new threads for things that are already there, we must also ask ourselves why people who like their devices don't feel the need to tell everyone, but people who don't like them must tell everyone. To me, that's a clear sign that there's something wrong with those haters or that there are some trolls here.
3) Threads that are created solely for the purpose of "letting steam off" do not help anyone! Of course people must be informed about flaws, BUT it doesn't help anyone when lots of threads are created for the sake of complaining about flaws that are already well-known. A thread must either inform or seek for a solution, threads created only in order to complain about or bash something are useless and hurt the quality of the forum.
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Doh! I wouldn't go to an iPhone forum slating the iPhone because I don't own one. I do, however, own an HD2......and therefore come to this forum. Yet another lame argument!
No, your argument is lame! I had an iPhone and I hated it, but I didn't go to iPhone forums telling people that I hate it, because only psychologically disturbed people like you do so.
And what is even worse, telling people how much you hate your HD2 has been the ONLY thing you've been doing since you registered to this forum. This is really sick.
My argument is totally valid. It's just you not being smart enough to understand it.
mikechannon said:
"In general "I hate my phone" threads neither contribute soluactions to problems nor do they seek answers to problems in a calm and reasoned way.
These forums are for the giving and receiving of information that assists users to get the best from their device - it is not a vehicle for "sounding-off" about your phone.
This thread does have some useful content, so I will not delete it but will close it as relevant points have already been made.
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Ok .... so, the fact that we know HTC pay attention to people gripes, comments and compliments on these forums.... if that had been a "we love HTC thread" would that have been closed?
I agree being rude and obnoxious are very good reasons but ... why not censor the very few posts related to it. Why close the general dissastifaction with what appears to be a typical HTC release. Without a place to talk about the general failure of HTC, how can the majority of people learn? How can those prospective customers be aware of the challenges they need to overcome to turn a rubbish device (out of the factory) into a great device (after XDA and chefs)?
mikechannon said:
(In addition - this thread has been reported by Members)
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And it appears all you have to do is complain about a thread, not be justified in your complaint.
The one thing i've always used in years is the xda forums and some of that i haven't even owned a HTC device. Like it or not, most people here have invested a lot of hard earned cash (or will over the next 18/24 months) and that will naturaly attract an emotional value - hence some anger when something like this doesn't work. The fact there was so much feeling in that thread should indicate the level of "emotion" about it and the incensed feeling they have about the amount people feel they have spent, money and time, on a device they are so unhappy about. Maybe if you guys created a "vent here thread" you might get to allow people to rant AND get usefull threads - heck, even HTC might read the "vent here thread!" and take note?
I'm so worried after reading todays threads in particular, about ordering mine earlier today but sadly nothing else that supports FULL exchange meets my requirements. I know my consumer rights and will use them to the full should I need to but I hope not it does have so many great points.
Monty Burns said:
Ok .... so, the fact that we know HTC pay attention to people gripes, comments and compliments on these forums....
We don't know that for sure. There are many on here who would disagree, saying that for them, if HTC were listening, then perceived problems would have been resolved quicker.
I agree being rude and obnoxious are very good reasons but ... why not censor the very few posts related to it. Why close the general dissatisfaction with what appears to be a typical HTC release. Without a place to talk about the general failure of HTC, how can the majority of people learn? How can those prospective customers be aware of the challenges they need to overcome to turn a rubbish device (out of the factory) into a great device (after XDA and chefs)?
Problem with this argument is that there are some on here who don't wish to face those challenges, which is fair enough. However what they do is to gripe about it and not help themselves, even when you point them in the right direction.
And it appears all you have to do is complain about a thread, not be justified in your complaint.
Not sure where you get that from. Please provide evidence of this or retract.
The one thing i've always used in years is the xda forums and some of that i haven't even owned a HTC device. Like it or not, most people here have invested a lot of hard earned cash (or will over the next 18/24 months) and that will naturally attract an emotional value - hence some anger when something like this doesn't work. The fact there was so much feeling in that thread should indicate the level of "emotion" about it and the incensed feeling they have about the amount people feel they have spent, money and time, on a device they are so unhappy about. Maybe if you guys created a "vent here thread" you might get to allow people to rant AND get useful threads - heck, even HTC might read the "vent here thread!" and take note?
Any "ranting", as you put it, should be made direct to HTC. XDA-Developers is exactly that; a developers site with a lot of interested non-developers in it. Its not the place to take out your frustrations against a manufacturer.
Re your point on hard earned cash being spent, I can't disagree with this. However ask these people how many of them went out and gave the device a really good test drive and an assessment of whether it would meet their needs or not and you will be silenced by the response.
I'm so worried after reading todays threads in particular, about ordering mine earlier today but sadly nothing else that supports FULL exchange meets my requirements. I know my consumer rights and will use them to the full should I need to but I hope not it does have so many great points.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you have doubts about this device then don't buy it. You will be severely disappointed. If you have not taken time out to test drive one before putting your order in then, with respect, more fool you.
Finally, moderators on here bend over backwards NOT to close threads or be seen as censoring debate. However we have to keep a balance and if, in our judgment, a thread is getting out of hand or no longer has any value nor serve any useful purpose then it will be closed.
All the best,
WB
as you've quoted inside of quotes you have made it really dificult for me to "quote" back - nice job! (although i suspect not deliberate).
"We don't know that for sure. There are many on here who would disagree, saying that for them, if HTC were listening, then perceived problems would have been resolved quicker."
Yeah ok. So the very big majority of Winmob market phones are produced by HTC, this site is dedicated to HTC (and historicaly Winmob).... do you REALLY think they don't read these forums? Really? Honestly? Are you sure?
"Problem with this argument is that there are some on here who don't wish to face those challenges, which is fair enough. However what they do is to gripe about it and not help themselves, even when you point them in the right direction."
I agree. There are SOME who want to gripe. There are a ship load more who want to make a device work but can't, no matter the support they get from the community - random users suffering from the SMS bug for example? The very fact most of these people have googled/have knowledge of these forums, means that they have at least gone to some effort to resolve an issue. So yes some, but a VERY small number. So, how can they air the frustrations they have? where? Maybe the most expansive and read HTC forums... thats a good place to start!
"And it appears all you have to do is complain about a thread, not be justified in your complaint.
Not sure where you get that from. Please provide evidence of this or retract."
*sigh* .... ok .... i'll come back to this but, i did quote, if you really want me to link to a thread closed in the past 10 minutes other than i already quoted your mod. I will.
"Any "ranting", as you put it, should be made direct to HTC. XDA-Developers is exactly that; a developers site with a lot of interested non-developers in it. Its not the place to take out your frustrations against a manufacturer."
Yeah ya know, it was a developers site years ago.... its not any more and hasn't been for a long time. Its a cookers and users site now. If you still think HTC don't read this forum then .... The sites success over the years can also be its greatest strength if you let it.
Now this isn't a problem of the site itself, more one with many reviews and fanboys of ALL phones, Iphone, HTC, Nokia....
"Re your point on hard earned cash being spent, I can't disagree with this. However ask these people how many of them went out and gave the device a really good test drive and an assessment of whether it would meet their needs or not and you will be silenced by the response."
Trying out a phone is a shop is a VERY diferent affair to OWNING one. Any person will know that, sadly though, many of us have to go by the reviews and forum comments that are available and try to filter out what may or may not be fanboy. Magazines, forum posts, personal reviews, blogs are all individual and very personal. Saying that someone should have reviewed more is simply not fair. Its impossible. Try asking your local O2 shop if you can take a phone away for a couple of weeks to try?
Hold on .... yes you can!!!! And that was the point of the last thread that got closed! Your fellow mod closed a thread which wasn't actually personal to anyone and (from a personal fed up with moaners point of view) I was trying educate people who purchased there phones in the UK that they had a bucket load of rights. If they are not happy, and it was purchased from the uk, then please "turn it in!" and return it.
Now from my pov, i'm a londoner (can you tell?) but i work all over the world. Currently im in Durban (yeah I was there at the test match! and met the England team) but out here they dont have the HD 2 so, I have to go on the reviews etc. Some people out here will spend near on £600 getting it imported from Expansys UK (ummm .... co.za) and other sites.
also..
Can i provide evidence? No. It was not made public so all I can assume is that if I PM a mod, things will be closed:
mikechannon said:
"In general "I hate my phone" threads neither contribute soluactions to problems nor do they seek answers to problems in a calm and reasoned way.
These forums are for the giving and receiving of information that assists users to get the best from their device - it is not a vehicle for "sounding-off" about your phone.
This thread does have some useful content, so I will not delete it but will close it as relevant points have already been made.
(In addition - this thread has been reported by Members)
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Click to collapse
How can i provide more evidence than that? I'm not privvy to your private messages. The previous line though backs up my "love HTC or go away" argument to a small extent:
mikechannon said:
This thread does have some useful content, so I will not delete it but will close it as relevant points have already been made.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I really think you guys, having helped, actually almost pushed HTC to where they are should now use your position and be .... responsible(? maybe a bit strong)) ... finaly get off the HTC only band wagon. Let them know that the stunning products they produce will no longer be accepted only 90% complete.
Ok. Lets be realistic. I ain't gona change your minds on anything and I don't want you to rebel against HTC as they make amazing hardware but, at least, in the position you have got.... maybe create a "if your gone B*&% and let off steam, do it in this thread?" thread? Maybe, just maybe there will be a common thread in it that HTC will finaly get to grips with .....?
Oh, and i've had a tytn, tytn 2 and having had both of those replaced under warranty i thought... no! Poke it! And had a tosh g900 when most people couldnt even spell 800 res screens and then foolishly went to a TD. That was refunded quickly under sales of goods act. Have an Acer M900 but due to the fact i'm living in south africa and i purchased that under my company contract, i now need to replace next week when im back in the UK. I was looking at a Milestone but the exchange support is rubbish at best. So, I have a week to try the HD2 or return it as not fit for purpose.... I do however, really want it to work!
And one final word.... my best winmob device without a device? Well two actually .... the Samsung Omnia and the baggage reconciliation devices i'm working with at the new Durban airport (what??? its not just a PHONE O/S!!!!??)
My opinion.
Here's an example of 2 threads.
MY HD2 IS THE WORST FONE ON THE PLANIT
I bought this fone for £x000 dollars and it should do everything I can ever imagine, rite out of the out of the box. I am disgusted that HTC expect ME to fix their problems.
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SMS didn't send
Hi everyone.
I tried to send a text message to my friends earlier and it's stuck in my outbox. Does anyone know why this might be? Does anyone have a suggestion as to what I should do about it?
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This forum is not about defending or slating any particular device. It is meant for users to get together and talk about ways to make the experience better. This forum is not responsible for the fact that some hardware that comes out of some factory and gets some software installed on it is not 100% perfect!
Now for 1 moment, can we please put aside arguments regarding the device and talk about the forum? Which of the above 2 threads is the most constructive?
Thank you.
johncmolyneux said:
Here's an example of 2 threads.
This forum is not about defending or slating any particular device. It is meant for users to get together and talk about ways to make the experience better. This forum is not responsible for the fact that some hardware that comes out of some factory and gets some software installed on it is not 100% perfect!
Now for 1 moment, can we please put aside arguments regarding the device and talk about the forum? Which of the above 2 threads is the most constructive?
Thank you.
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Click to collapse
More to the point, what is the point of leaving the first example open? At the very least there should be a dedicated section for those unhelpful posts (as [★] suggested yesterday) but I think they should just be closed as they're so worthless.
Do you work for a newspaper?
Both comments are usefull. Just because you don't see the use in both doesn't mean they are not usefull. Does that mean 10% of men don't like brand x of condoms so they should be ignored of Fred Smiths Condom appreciation website?
(sorry thats a really poor example but its 2am here in SA and i've been on the beer and Eve-online and films for a few hours )
Very fair play to you for putting forward an argument (non abusive as I would hope) and maybe catch up tomorrow.
Monty,
You are a Londoner eh? I should have known. You lot are nothing but trouble makers!
First off sorry about the quotes within quotes; didn't realise it stopped you from quoting back. Now that I do...
OK, lots in your post that I could come back on in detail but I won't because I'm the sort of chap that likes going forwards, not looking back in self pity or whatever.
The one thing that you have suggested, and you are not the first, is that we think on somewhere where people can let off steam WITHOUT cluttering up the forums. As you know there is some work going on as to how best we can restructure the place to make it better. Can I ask you to be a little patient while all this gets worked through.
In the meantime, think on the following:
- Help us to support people who need and want help and please be robust about those that don't but just fancy a moan and upsetting people on here without ever really wanting to seek help or to help themselves (the word Troll comes to mind).
- If you look at the Development & Hacking forums you will see that Development is stronger than ever and does not change what this place is all about. The work of the chefs is recognised and appreciated, and you can argue that is also development so 2-0 there.
- Lets all try to be a little adult, constructive and get along a little. I can tell you that, from a Mods perspective, we really want to be doing other things to make people's lives on here better rather than spending time closing threads down because people just can't have a little respect for each other. I often wonder whether anyone ever reads the forum rules.
Finally thank you for keeping on the straight and narrow re this thread and not going off the rails and getting it closed.
WB
jakem said:
More to the point, what is the point of leaving the first example open? At the very least there should be a dedicated section for those unhelpful posts (as [★] suggested yesterday) but I think they should just be closed as they're so worthless.
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I totally agree mate (hence the support in said thread raised by [★] yesterday.)
I find this site a ridiculously valuable source of information when I need help with my phone, and I find it disheartening to have to wade through complaint after complaint just in order to get to constructive discussions.
If I wanted to live in troll city, I'd pack all my stuff into boxes; call a removals company; do some browsing of estate agents and property letting agents; check the reputation of the areas I was interested in and then guess what.... MOVE TO TROLL CITY!
I'm a placid guy generally, but some posts really make me struggle to just not tell the OP where to go.
+9999999 recurring to real constructive users of this site.
-9999999 recurring to trolls (and we know you don't think you're a troll, but you are.)
Monty Burns said:
Do you work for a newspaper?
Both comments are usefull. Just because you don't see the use in both doesn't mean they are not usefull. Does that mean 10% of men don't like brand x of condoms so they should be ignored of Fred Smiths Condom appreciation website?
(sorry thats a really poor example but its 2am here in SA and i've been on the beer and Eve-online and films for a few hours )
Very fair play to you for putting forward an argument (non abusive as I would hope) and maybe catch up tomorrow.
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If 10% of men don't like brand x of condoms then they should definitely speak their mind. They would be wrong though to go to a forum that supports uses of brand x condoms and slate them. A support forum is for support.
OK first, no idea who Martin is. (Its Monty spelt the wrong way - doh)
Second, guys sounds like we might have a good conversation on the values of "to HTC or not HTC" although I might be on the wrong side, despite just spending a bucket load of fivers on a HT2.
Please, keep it clean and (well funny if you can't) but not personaly insulting. Everyone on a keyboard is a human being!
Be safe, have fun!
Monty Burns said:
OK first, no idea who Martin is.
Second, guys sounds like we might have a good conversation on the values of "to HTC or not HTC" although I might be on the wrong side, despite just spending a bucket load of fivers on a HT2.
Please, keep it clean and (well funny if you can't) but not personaly insulting. Everyone on a keyboard is a human being!
Be safe, have fun!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with that totally, but I do think this thread should be moved to a general area. Let's face it, it's hardly HD2 specific now is it!
It would be nice to see everyone's thoughts on this, rather than just the ones with The God Phone. (Just kidding - that was meant to incite trouble )
To be fair, those "I hate this phone" ranting type threads really do spiral into a hate fest or at least the few I've seen. If a topic is interesting and you comment on it, and go back later to see how it develops when all that is left is just insults, it has no use to most if not all.
johncmolyneux said:
I agree with that totally, but I do think this thread should be moved to a general area. Let's face it, it's hardly HD2 specific now is it!
It would be nice to see everyone's thoughts on this, rather than just the ones with The God Phone. (Just kidding - that was meant to incite trouble )
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Argh! I'm not a god!!! (although I think I am, with my size 9 shoes... bow down before me!)
Seriously, maybe a good idea. I guess in an odd way this may complement (orb3000s?) the other thread vote about should it be HTC or not site? We don't know you server statistics of course but, we can hope that we can get to the stage where we can give our opinion on HTC honestly..... ( i wanted to deleted that and not type it as its not fair, i think we can, mostly ).
In my view its like a really cool manopoly. The games fun to play for almost all of us (i may/may not include myself in that after 2 years HTC abscense on next Friday) but for some it really sucks cos they keep losing.
I would think that moving it to an adult discussion of the real benefits as us users see if you become "open" but, we have no idea of the server costs... only you guys do.
(you do of course know that pressure will mount and mount and mount with regards to non-HTC phones. Your not silly Samsung, LG, Acer.... to name but a few know that the serious money is in smart phones in the next few years, not feature. In Slough o2 test 150-200 meg 4g phones a couple of weeks ago )
From what I understand, this is a developers forum. i.e. look to the potential rather than to the faults as is.
There are far too many distracting threads along the lines of "the virtual keyboard is killing me", "my wife left me because of the battery life", "the pink camera issue made me kill my neighbour". These type of threads may have valid points but they are all a bit melodramatic and really don't serve the purpose of the forum very well as they fan the flames of discontent rather that rise to the can-fix mindset. Despite what the trolls (for want of a better word) might like to say, this isn't a fanboi site, it's for those who realise a problem and want to solve it, simply just improve things, or just want to tweak things just because they can! I'm sure most of us here are all too aware of the shortcomings of Windows mobile software, just as we recognise the potential & strengths of this platform.
Speaking as a self-confessed technophile I will admit to spending an not inconsiderable amount of hard-earned money on utter crap i.e. gadgets that promised so much, yet delivered so little or were simply just badly executed. The HD2 is non of these, it's a stunning piece of design & engineering. It's not perfect, for example: the sharp edges of the camera lens annoy me a little, but it doesn't induce a desire in me to vent my spleen to the world.
I'm optimistic, I hope to survive longer than my HD2 and maybe via this forum HTC will hear my concern for this non-life threatening design flaw and engineer a more ergonomic lens cover for the next mobile phone I get. If they don't, it will undoubtedly leave a microscopic void in my life, but I'm strong enough to move on and no doubt the HTC designers will burn in hell for their tardiness.
xda-developers is what is says and is a great community that helps us get the best from these intriguing phones, so please diss the efforts of those who contribute and recognise that enthusiasm is a far better fertilizer for technology than manure.
Besides that, looking at my HD2 I've just noticed that it's going to be wet & windy at "My Location" tomorrow. That's fifty miles away and I'm not even going there, so it's a win for me!
It's really so disappointing to see the reception given to SamsungJohn here in XDA. I know many of you are angry about the Froyo delays, but *****ing out the social media liasson won't accomplish anything.
This is the first time ever, AFAIK, that a handset manufacturer has reached out directly to the XDA community. Maybe it's all smoke and mirrors, who knows, but we won't see anything if we just reject their attempts out of hand.
And I think people need to stop with the notion that Samsung is evil or just wants to hurt users. They're a huge company; it may not have even been on the radar of the decisionmakers that we were dissatisfied.
We're in a fairly recent and novel paradigm where users expect timely software updates--a year and a half ago nobody expected that. You bought a phone and maybe there might be a firmware update somewhere down the road. And out of the millions of people who bought SGS phones, we're just a very small minority. If we want cooperation from Samsung we need to impress upon them the advantages of collaborating with devs, because honestly they're going to make billions either way. If we demonstrate that cooperation will involve crass tantrums, they'll just sell their phones to the millions of people who don't give a crap about independent development. Do we really want that kind of belligerent attitude a la Motorola? I don't know about you, but I'd rather we try to move Samsung towards us rather than away from us.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Samsung is trying to help us and we are biting our noses off just to spite our face. I think they are doing a great thing by coming on here.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Agreed...well said...both of you.
I agree that was pretty messed up. It's bad enough all the devs have been scrared away. Ex-da isn't what it used to.
I totally agree. The guy is not a decision maker at Samsung - he came here to try to get feedback about how the company can improve and people just flamed the guy relentlessly. Further proof that there are too many children and buffoons here. It's no wonder that devs loathe coming here. FYI to the guys that tore into SamsungJohn - Krylon had a good conversation with Sammy and they are looking to get in contact with Sombionix as well.
What's not on their radar with a 90% surety is timely software updates. Hardware companies are going to drag their feet as much as possible to provide software upgrades for old hardware, if they do it at all.
I don't meam any disrespect to anyone but I gotta disagree.
Samsung is a huge company but they have also been in the mobile business for quite a while and they have also been known to release products that don't quite work the way they are supposed to, just like the Vibrant and until now there was no post purchase support or at least no usable support or updates... Look at the history of the Beholds and almost any other phone they released.
Releasing a phone like the Vibrant in 2010 that lags out of the box and where the gps issues make the navigation function unusable is just not right. Stock this phone is a joke and after a few days of use it is really frustrating. They are supposed to do a lot more then just release a device after device and look at the sale numbers.
These are very expensive devices and for that kind of money they are supposed to work!
Agree or disagree with me but facts are facts. Not everyone who owns such a device will root or flash their device with a custom rom in order to make it usable. I have played with many other android phones and they all work smoother and stock a lot better than any of the galaxy s series so far...
To list some...
Htc incredible, nexus one, mytouch 4g, tmobile g2, droid x, even htc aria which is not even in the same class as above mentioned models.
If the developers on the xda forums can make this phone perform ten times better than stock, explain to me why Samsung's developers cannot do the same...
I speak for myself, but I am fed up with samsung and their quality control and I can say this was the last Samsung phone I purchased until they do something revolutionary and change my mind...
Isn't someone testing these devices for a week or two before they release them in order to make sure everything works as it should?! If they are then maybe samsung should hire someone from this forum instead...
Also why don't the phone manufacturers just make a survey on the forums for feedback from users as to what the phone should include as far as software or hardware... 2010 top tier android device without a flash for the camera is just wrong and the night mode cannot replace the flash. I do not use the camera as much but just for the sake of it they should have led flash, some people use it and want it, how expensive can it be to do that...
The Super AMOLED display is the best in my opinion for now, but it is not enough to justify the many other mistakes or flaws... The displays on other phone aren't crap either!
Sorry for the long post.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
I'm totally sympathetic to the people who are fed up and say #neveragain. But the solution to that is to complain through other channels and then never buy Samsung again.
This rep came here reaching his hand out to the dev community, and insulting him or whining does a serious disservice to everyone else here. I think he came here to try to create a mutually beneficial relationship, not take complaint tickets. Many of us are skeptical, but we think it's worth seeing if anything can come of this (and if you aren't, the actual devs are).
BorisZX6R said:
I don't meam any disrespect to anyone but I gotta disagree.
Samsung is a huge company but they have also been in the mobile business for quite a while and they have also been known to release products that don't quite work the way they are supposed to, just like the Vibrant and until now there was no post purchase support or at least no usable support or updates... Look at the history of the Beholds and almost any other phone they released.
Releasing a phone like the Vibrant in 2010 that lags out of the box and where the gps issues make the navigation function unusable is just not right. Stock this phone is a joke and after a few days of use it is really frustrating. They are supposed to do a lot more then just release a device after device and look at the sale numbers.
These are very expensive devices and for that kind of money they are supposed to work!
Agree or disagree with me but facts are facts. Not everyone who owns such a device will root or flash their device with a custom rom in order to make it usable. I have played with many other android phones and they all work smoother and stock a lot better than any of the galaxy s series so far...
To list some...
Htc incredible, nexus one, mytouch 4g, tmobile g2, droid x, even htc aria which is not even in the same class as above mentioned models.
If the developers on the xda forums can make this phone perform ten times better than stock, explain to me why Samsung's developers cannot do the same...
I speak for myself, but I am fed up with samsung and their quality control and I can say this was the last Samsung phone I purchased until they do something revolutionary and change my mind...
Isn't someone testing these devices for a week or two before they release them in order to make sure everything works as it should?! If they are then maybe samsung should hire someone from this forum instead...
Also why don't the phone manufacturers just make a survey on the forums for feedback from users as to what the phone should include as far as software or hardware... 2010 top tier android device without a flash for the camera is just wrong and the night mode cannot replace the flash. I do not use the camera as much but just for the sake of it they should have led flash, some people use it and want it, how expensive can it be to do that...
The Super AMOLED display is the best in my opinion for now, but it is not enough to justify the many other mistakes or flaws... The displays on other phone aren't crap either!
Sorry for the long post.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was one of those that got beholded they flat out lied on that one. Here I am again with the vibrant guessing thats samsung mo to screw ya
This rep was hosed due to his own lack of knowledge, nothing else.
He started off by filling the cool-aid cups and passing them around expecting everyone to drink freely.
"Hi, I'm SamsungJohn and I have some REALLY BIG things for everyone here"
*I'll wisely not mention that I can't answer questions about hardware or software and in fact I can't really answer a single question anyone has*
It was Samsung corporate in damage control mode,NOTHING ELSE.
Funk dem. Do they think everyone is so stupid they cannot see thru this BS ?
I honestly do feel sorry for John getting thrown to the sharks by his employer, but I know for a damn fact it could have been handled with tact and finesse.
Oh yea, before the flaming closet dwellers start in....
i.e.
" Hi, I'm John, I work for Samsung, and they have given me the job position of liason with the public.
Now before I go any further, please understand that I am under corporate restraints and NDAs (non-disclosure agreements) so that I can only give so much info and so much data. I do not know yet if they will allow me to give access to unreleased software.
So, within those restraints I will do my best to provide what I can.
Yes, I know a great many of you are upset with Samsung and that is why I am here.
Please go easy on me as I do not own or control the company"
Now, would that really have been so very tough of an introduction ?
n2ishun said:
This rep was hosed due to his own lack of knowledge, nothing else.
He started off by filling the cool-aid cups and passing them around expecting everyone to drink freely.
"Hi, I'm SamsungJohn and I have some REALLY BIG things for everyone here"
*I'll wisely not mention that I can't answer questions about hardware or software and in fact I can't really answer a single question anyone has*
It was Samsung corporate in damage control mode,NOTHING ELSE.
Funk dem. Do they think everyone is so stupid they cannot see thru this BS ?
I honestly do feel sorry for John getting thrown to the sharks by his employer, but I know for a damn fact it could have been handled with tact and finesse.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's one thing to remain skeptical towards the guy and his motives but its completely another to flat out accuse him of lying and subterfuge merely because he may have omitted the exact words you need to hear or he wasn't nice enough, etc. It seems fairly obvious to me that if ANY large company was to hold a Q&A session on specifics of perceived missteps, they would choose a much more public forum - not a niche community of developers. On the other hand, if they wanted to incorporate new features or contract out some good developers, they are in the right place.
I don't doubt they (samsung) aren't doing this out of the goodness of their collective hearts, but if this is how changes are effected, I'll take it.
Totally agree with you Kubernetes, people think they'll get something done by impressing their rage upon the messenger. So far all of his threads are closed due to people completely ignoring the instructions and asking for release dates and trolling samsung saying they're gonna tell all their friends to never buy samsung, it's really disgusting if you ask me. I dunno about you guys but I'm the only person I know who cares if samsung releases timely updates...everyone else I know is NOT a power user and could not care less about updates. I think if outsiders say, higher ups in Samsung, were to read those threads they'd see more hostility and uncooperativeness
than a community that's ready to work with them.
Main reason I dislike all the people flaming him is because as soon as I try to ask a legit question, the thread is already locked. Trolls are blaring out people who want to handle this like adults.
Please don't try to put words in my mouth unless you intend to become my wife. I'm a dominating top so consider the job well before volunteering.
At no point did I say that John was lying, yet you say very directly that I did.
Exactly whom is the lier ?
Well honestly the way he was treated was bad, but again that is the way Samsung has treated us from the beginning, but I do have to say something about this section (vibrant) As a whole we fight with each other too much. Just take a look at the 2.2.1 rom release in the development section. It just one big ***** fest, and it is stupid. We need to focus on fixing and making our phones better not our EGO's. If we as a community can't get our collective a$$ together we will just fade away and kill our developer support. There is too much drama. One group doesn't want to work with another so on so forth. If we pooled our collective resources then we could be great.
n2ishun said:
This rep was hosed due to his own lack of knowledge, nothing else.
He started off by filling the cool-aid cups and passing them around expecting everyone to drink freely.
"Hi, I'm SamsungJohn and I have some REALLY BIG things for everyone here"
*I'll wisely not mention that I can't answer questions about hardware or software and in fact I can't really answer a single question anyone has*
It was Samsung corporate in damage control mode,NOTHING ELSE.
Funk dem. Do they think everyone is so stupid they cannot see thru this BS ?
I honestly do feel sorry for John getting thrown to the sharks by his employer, but I know for a damn fact it could have been handled with tact and finesse.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It Is damage control, but that said, they are (cause they recognize not to do so is suicide) reaching out, but the teaser is just a tactic to buy more time.
I am in the corporate world and I am Senior Exec, So this is just normal proceedings from a business to engage - delay and then reveal what they really are going to offer. That tactic is done cause it lowers expectations so if it is not enough you do not end up with a mass rebellion on your hands. Samsung John is a Big Boy, he knows the rules and expects to hear both happy and hostile comments and takes them like a grain of salt. So there is nothing for us to be ashamed of, he asked for our opinion and comments and we gave them to him.... the good, the bad and the ugly
One other note SamsungJohn released the exact same email in every Galaxy forum, so do not be wooed into thinking he was talking directly to us. It was can statement and a canned response/followup.
This might be his big announcement
I have been a user here four about 2 months and have never posted because I know how to search and I don't want to deal with the egos and the flaming, but this was posted on another forum (has nothing to do with phones) that I use.
"I talked with someone in STA (the division of the company that focuses on mobile devices), no plans at least in the immediate future are int he works for OTA updates on the Galaxy S 3G lineup. Which has me pissed. (edit: by "immediate future" I mean we're looking at like March for the mandatory OTA update, which leads me to think this hardwire update is just a beta)
Even as an employee, I can guarantee this is going to be my last Samsung phone. I STILL don't have Froyo because of all the hoops I had to go through in addition to running errands today.
Why you're forced to use a completely different connection mode, when virtually every other phone on the market can update either OTA or with a standard USB mount point, then Kies refused to connect until I turned on USB debugging, turned off USB debugging, and restarted Kies.
Now? With 88% battery life, I need to let it charge to 100% just to even start downloading the update."
Idid not include a link since it is private forum and the guy has a job he would probably like to keep. This was posted last month when the Kies update came out.
With that said it would still be nice to work with samsung, what may come from it might not be the holy grail, but at least something may come from it.
I find alarming that a lot of people in these threads think of Samsung as some sort of benefactor. An overlord that we must strive to please or else face the consequences. That is the exact opposite of what it should be.
We don't need to please them with diplomacy as if we owe them something. They simply have to treat us like clients and thats the end of that.
I can't believe some of you feel that we must appease a paid employee and thank him for doing what he is being paid to do. What is he gonna do, quit his job because the whole XDA collective is not getting on its knees for him.
An advice to Samsung, and SamsungJohn: stop talking, and start acting. A good start would have been a post saying: "Hi, I'm a representative from Samsung. Here's a source code and some other tools you guys might find useful FOR IMPROVING OUR PRODUCT. THANK YOU!"
Kubernetes said:
This is the first time ever, AFAIK, that a handset manufacturer has reached out directly to the XDA community. Maybe it's all smoke and mirrors, who knows, but we won't see anything if we just reject their attempts out of hand.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that. right. there.
Mannymal said:
I find alarming that a lot of people in these threads think of Samsung as some sort of benefactor. An overlord that we must strive to please or else face the consequences. That is the exact opposite of what it should be.
We don't need to please them with diplomacy as if we owe them something. They simply have to treat us like clients and thats the end of that.
I can't believe some of you feel that we must appease a paid employee and thank him for doing what he is being paid to do. What is he gonna do, quit his job because the whole XDA collective is not getting on its knees for him.
An advice to Samsung, and SamsungJohn: stop talking, and start acting. A good start would have been a post saying: "Hi, I'm a representative from Samsung. Here's a source code and some other tools you guys might find useful FOR IMPROVING OUR PRODUCT. THANK YOU!"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Jesus that's myopic. Samsung doesn't need anything from us, we're just a tiny minority of people who have bought their phones. They clearly think there's something to be gained from forming relationships with devs, which is why SamsungJohn is here and not Android Central or a more consumer oriented site.
You want source? Great, I'm sure that's what Krylon and Supercurio are telling them. Like adults. And I'm sure they're also explaining how timely source release can benefit Samsung as well, instead of demanding it or crying about how we're owed better support.
Because in the end, he doesn't have to be here and Samsung doesn't have to do jack about helping XDA because they'll still sell a ****-ton of phones regardless. If you can't understand that there are things we want from Samsung and it's not "appeasement" to try to get them, I have no words for you. It's not like we're holding all the cards and some horrible fate will befall Samsung if they decide this is too much of a headache.
The Atrix is a great phone. This is the reason I bought this phone, and the reason many of you bought this phone. If I have learned anything from technology it would be that EVERYTHING has its short commings as well as good things. Because of the technological advances we have been "trained" to think every bit of technology is or should be perfect and if it is not, simply complain about it. "Back in the day" people would have though black magic is at work looking at a phone such as the Atrix; yet we still complain about it all the time. This is a dual core phone for Christs sake! As long as the PHONE does it job and allows you to use its PHONE functions, it has done his job and you should be satisfied. This is a smart phone, it is smart - it does what you need but when it loads 0.002 seconds slower than you except you bi--h and complain about how you're going to return it and how it was the worst phone you've ever had. Please...people...if the phone does what you need it to do in a timely manner, it is fine. I and several other xda brethren are sick of hearing all your sad "goodbye Atrix" stories. Just stop it, if you have a legitimate complaint please call Motorola or use the official Motorola support forum.
Thanks for reading!
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
Well said, I often read the same bullcrap from Nokia N900 users over at the Maemo forums whining about their devices. Does my head in.
Amen brotha!
Here's an example for your amusement.
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=54773
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=52479
I was pointed to the board by a friend after I grew tired of my iPhone and decided to go to android, I spent weeks researching and decided that the Atrix was the best phone for me at the time, and guess what... It was. I love it and have no doubt in my mind I bought the right phone. I have grown tired of all the negative attitudes on this board, the flames and trolls, and nay sayers.
I wish they would just leave the board so those of us that enjoy our Atrix can see what can be done and what we will be able to do with it.
A healthy discussion is one thing but I grow weary of the rhetoric and hyperbole that passes for argument here.
I want people to keep *****ing and leaving!
I love reading the responses to the OP's parting comments. Usually hillarious and help me get through the day!
Well said. I agree with your post, and myself am a little dismayed at the attitude of people here. I havent seen this much complaining on previous technical forums I've gone to. That said, this is the internet and so its really to be expected that people will act like this on some level. Its sad, but there's not much that can be done about it.
Dunno how this thread contributes in anything it only triggers flaming.
Thread closed.
Guys, please behave yourself and be polite toward the developers. They don't owe you anything and they are working left and right to make our phones better. Don't act like they intentionally go around and break any particular functions on your phones. If you feel like those functions are important to you, stick with stock ROM and STFU. Custom ROMs are not for you.
Comments should be used for feedback only, not to make any request or demanding any answers why x,y,z do not work on your phones. DO NOT pestering the developers over PM or emails. The people doing that kind of things are no better than scums. I have seen too many good developers left the scene and it's quite disheartening.
Just some reminder to make our community better.
P.S. No I am not the admin, just an angry xda member.
Thanks for this,
I know most people respect what devs try to do.
However it is the small minority that spoiled it the other day.
In my frustration I threw my Play against a wall and have smashed the screen.
I cannot afford to pay the £45 to get it fixed which is why I cannot continue to create ROMs
If some generous people out there would care to make some contributions to help me get it fixed I will definately continue development on MIUI the play..
Sorry to sound like a beggar but I just can't afford it
pricey2009 said:
Thanks for this,
I know most people respect what devs try to do.
However it is the small minority that spoiled it the other day.
In my frustration I threw my Play against a wall and have smashed the screen.
I cannot afford to pay the £45 to get it fixed which is why I cannot continue to create ROMs
If some generous people out there would care to make some contributions to help me get it fixed I will definately continue development on MIUI the play..
Sorry to sound like a beggar but I just can't afford it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well the small minority are just noobs they cannot do this themselves because they are clueless. If they want something they should be trying to support you not nag you. But Pricey I can't Donate I have no Paypal . And dude this should be in the "General" section of the forum!
I know this is going to come off meanly, and I don't mean it that way, but seriously? So you let people tick you off so bad, you threw your phone against the wall and broke it... No wonder you're called Pricey.
I support development, but not stupidity, sorry. You'd be better off looking for donations for Anger Management counselling.
This is going to sound mean as well, but why should people donate if you broke the phone by something physical (chucking it at wall, which is obviously going to break it). If you had maybe bricked it (or something like that) while doing something to help the community, then people would be more likely to donate...
I didn't mean to say everyone has to pay for what I did.. just asked for a bit help that was all.
I'm just saying I cannot afford to pay to fix the phone which in turn would of meant my continued development and help to everyone in the community.
It wasn't just because of my frustration of what I was sent and demanded for, I have a house full of kids and a wife that drive me up the wall as well.
Sechko has kindly donated £5 (thanks buddy) towards the screen, I can put £10 myself so I just need a further £30 and that will be it.
I do want to continue as I have worked so hard on the Sony Beta version of MIUI it would of been a waste otherwise.
There are reasons why long term developers are so highly regarded. Not only do they possess the hard skills (code analysis, debugging, maths to make sense of all that), but they have soft skills like PR management, good team work abilities and the ability to see that the continuity of a project implies a personal investment, which will have a yield in the end.
Some long, peaceful breathing seems to be in order here. And after that, it's time for all of you to evaluate exactly that. Does whatever project you were involved in contribute to your personal growth? Pricey decided that it wasn't, and so he stopped.
Our role as a community is to ensure that developers can feel at ease to do what they like to do. As such, the community failed pricey. But then again, pricey can learn lessons from this. Both for his presence here, and for his real life.
XPlay-Swype
Logseman said:
There are reasons why long term developers are so highly regarded. Not only do they possess the hard skills (code analysis, debugging, maths to make sense of all that), but they have soft skills like PR management, good team work abilities and the ability to see that the continuity of a project implies a personal investment, which will have a yield in the end.
Some long, peaceful breathing seems to be in order here. And after that, it's time for all of you to evaluate exactly that. Does whatever project you were involved in contribute to your personal growth? Pricey decided that it wasn't, and so he stopped.
Our role as a community is to ensure that developers can feel at ease to do what they like to do. As such, the community failed pricey. But then again, pricey can learn lessons from this. Both for his presence here, and for his real life.
XPlay-Swype
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The way I see it, the Xperia play is already a strong device able to play ShadowGun with 30-60 FPS
If it's already powerful what do we need to keep modding it for?
The only mods that make sense now are hardware ones. and that is the new direction I'm headed
Mainly because I want my Xperia to pickup better signal while I'm out around and exploring new citys.
Since I've got my Xperia Play it's been on stock. No unlocked bootloader and not even rooted.
I like to keep it simple
Hogwarts said:
The way I see it, the Xperia play is already a strong device able to play ShadowGun with 30-60 FPS
If it's already powerful what do we need to keep modding it for?
The only mods that make sense now are hardware ones. and that is the new direction I'm headed
Mainly because I want my Xperia to pickup better signal while I'm out around and exploring new citys.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why do we need to keep modding it? Dude, that's not really the perspective I expect from a developer. I think to summarize the general collective attitude of Android devolopers, I would have to say that the reason we keep modding any Android device is because we all want our phones to do everything. While we know it isn't possible for our phones to do everything, we want to push it as close as we can. Whether that involves tweaking the UI, the system, or hardware, we modify our phones because we can. As Android users, we don't have to settle for what our manufacturers or carriers provide us with. We can make our phones what we want them to be, and more!
That, sir, is why phones continue to be modded and supported by the development community, even far past their carrier end-of-life dates.
Calling hogwarts a developer might be a bit strong - He uninstalled bloat, installed V6, called it a ROM, promptly stopped updating, and disassembled his Play.
Re: OP, some devs actively irritate me. The aforementioned, our destructive little friend who posted earlier, and whichever member of FXP has a blood pact against the r800x... And yet, some devs here are amazing. Chevy's remarkably effective and problem-free conversions, Keiran's ridiculous productivity for all versions of our phone, despite lacking resources that other devs require prior to even trying to develop... And FXP, for all the work they've done, even if some comments do annoy me.
Tl;dr, devs are not sacred shamans and I don't mind calling them out for bull****, especially when said bull**** isn't impeding the dude ten years my junior who also has school to contend with.
Sent from my R800x using xda premium
While I do agree with you, for the most part, the fact still remains that there are some really ungrateful... people around here that do nothing but complain, nag, and demand things be given to them as soon as their post is made. While it is true that some developers aren't as awesome as others, they all do deserve to be treated with the same respect as everyone else. More than that should definitely be earned, of course.
The short of it? The Golden Rule, people. That shouldn't need to be posted, but alas, such is the world we live in.
Sent from my R800x using XDA
I'd donate just because of the wife and kids driving you up the wall. I only have 22p in PayPal though. It's yours if you want it.
Sent from my R800i using XDA
Trygon said:
Calling hogwarts a developer might be a bit strong - He uninstalled bloat, installed V6, called it a ROM, promptly stopped updating, and disassembled his Play.
Re: OP, some devs actively irritate me. The aforementioned, our destructive little friend who posted earlier, and whichever member of FXP has a blood pact against the r800x... And yet, some devs here are amazing. Chevy's remarkably effective and problem-free conversions, Keiran's ridiculous productivity for all versions of our phone, despite lacking resources that other devs require prior to even trying to develop... And FXP, for all the work they've done, even if some comments do annoy me.
Tl;dr, devs are not sacred shamans and I don't mind calling them out for bull****, especially when said bull**** isn't impeding the dude ten years my junior who also has school to contend with.
Sent from my R800x using xda premium
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Remember that, while Keiran is a free agent (and an awesome guy btw), FXP is a team with certain rules and guidelines, which give them an edge over free agents that they need to keep. FXP hasn't touched the bootloaders of the 2011 Xperia line, and their support for devices which "shouldn't" ever have been unlocked, like the R800x, is not officially endorsed. That's the price they pay for, e.g, getting phones and source code directly from Sony as they did last year.
BTW, FXP has another teen in the group, namely Blagus. He was busy already with the older Xperias... it's hard to wrap your head around the concept of a 14 yo kid that can tear apart a phone's sotware just like that
Logseman said:
Remember that, while Keiran is a free agent (and an awesome guy btw), FXP is a team with certain rules and guidelines, which give them an edge over free agents that they need to keep. FXP hasn't touched the bootloaders of the 2011 Xperia line, and their support for devices which "shouldn't" ever have been unlocked, like the R800x, is not officially endorsed. That's the price they pay for, e.g, getting phones and source code directly from Sony as they did last year.
BTW, FXP has another teen in the group, namely Blagus. He was busy already with the older Xperias... it's hard to wrap your head around the concept of a 14 yo kid that can tear apart a phone's sotware just like that
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No joke, right? I consider myself smarter then the average bear, but some people on this forum make me feel like a drooling neanderthal.
As far as FXP's rules go, this is the first mention of them I've heard, and they keep teasing that r800x support will come 'eventually'.
Trygon said:
No joke, right? I consider myself smarter then the average bear, but some people on this forum make me feel like a drooling neanderthal.
As far as FXP's rules go, this is the first mention of them I've heard, and they keep teasing that r800x support will come 'eventually'.
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http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=15253598&postcount=217
This was FXP's stance in July 2011, and I haven't read anything reversing it.
Logseman said:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=15253598&postcount=217
This was FXP's stance in July 2011, and I haven't read anything reversing it.
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While their morals are in the right place, I can't say that I agree with their decision. I mean, look at all of the other manufacturers that are starting to lock down their bootloaders. Motorola is a big one, but HTC is another one that comes to mind. Sure, HTC posts unlocks, but most of the time, the community has already broken their bootloaders open by the time HTC gets around to it. When we tell Sony, "okay, we'll play by your rules," what we're telling them is that we're going to go ahead and take this stuff lying down. What happens next? We own these devices, and the argument of pretty much the whole development community is that since we own our devices, we should be able to do what we want, even if we end up bricking them. Go ahead and void my warranty, I did that to myself, anyway. That's what insurance is for.
There was a time that Sony was unlocking bootloaders on the R800x. It didn't last long, and I missed the ship on that one, but the reason they took it down wasn't because of an SE decision. Verizon, the only CDMA carrier that officially carries the Xperia Play, didn't want their users unlocking their bootloaders and rooting, which was the only way to root at the time, because they wanted their users to keep their bloatware on the devices. So it's not Sony that we're fighting on the unlocked bootloader issue. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Alejandrissimo's method, using SETool, made available by Sony? Regardless if that's the case or not, Verizon is who we're having to fight for our freedom, not Sony.
Logseman said:
Remember that, while Keiran is a free agent (and an awesome guy btw), FXP is a team with certain rules and guidelines, which give them an edge over free agents that they need to keep. FXP hasn't touched the bootloaders of the 2011 Xperia line, and their support for devices which "shouldn't" ever have been unlocked, like the R800x, is not officially endorsed. That's the price they pay for, e.g, getting phones and source code directly from Sony as they did last year.
BTW, FXP has another teen in the group, namely Blagus. He was busy already with the older Xperias... it's hard to wrap your head around the concept of a 14 yo kid that can tear apart a phone's sotware just like that
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No offense but how does age matter if the developer is talented ? And you know what, I think the type of people that tend to annoy developers on this forum are the R800x owner. If you buy a locked down device from a ****ty wireless carrier like Verizon, it's your own damn fault. The developers didn't put a gun on your heads to ask you to buy them. If you can't unlock the bootloaders or flash your favorite ROM, it would be nicer to ask the developers nicely to develop another version for your phone. If he refuses then move on, learn from your mistakes and never buy another phones/sign the contract with Verizon. You have no one to blame but your own stupidity.
If you can't flash your damn ROM, it's not the end of the world, go do something else rather than sitting here whining to us and to the developers about it. If I am one of the developers, I will probably even give you guys the middle finger every time you guys say something rude to me. The developers don't owe you guys anything period so learn to behave. After all, it's only a phone, not your baby, etc... Stop making a big deal out of nothing and ruin the community. Next time, stop being cheap and buy an unlocked phone if you want to use xda and we can talk.
RandomXIII said:
No offense but how does age matter if the developer is talented ? And you know what, I think the type of people that tend to annoy developers on this forum are the R800x owner. If you buy a locked down device from a ****ty wireless carrier like Verizon, it's your own damn fault. The developers didn't put a gun on your heads to ask you to buy them. If you can't unlock the bootloaders or flash your favorite ROM, it would be nicer to ask the developers nicely to develop another version for your phone. If he refuses then move on, learn from your mistakes and never buy another phones/sign the contract with Verizon. You have no one to blame but your own stupidity.
If you can't flash your damn ROM, it's not the end of the world, go do something else rather than sitting here whining to us and to the developers about it. If I am one of the developers, I will probably even give you guys the middle finger every time you guys say something rude to me. The developers don't owe you guys anything period so learn to behave. After all, it's only a phone, not your baby, etc... Stop making a big deal out of nothing and ruin the community. Next time, stop being cheap and buy an unlocked phone if you want to use xda and we can talk.
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Dude, you've gone off on this one. I originally agreed with you, but seriously. I'm not just saying this because I have an R800x, but there are stupid noobs with every kind of phone there is. You can't just say, "oh, I see these guys don't like being singled out, so they must be complaining." Last I checked, there are a whole lot less of us R800x users here, and even fewer that actually complain about the roms that exist. Yes, we'll ask if they're compatible with our phones, but that's simply because of the difference within the devices themselves, despite the fact that they have the same name.
As for using a phone on a particular carrier, I'm going to have to guess that you don't live in America, you don't have your own plan, or both. Here in the states, we generally have to pick what carrier actually has service in our area, very much so in the rural areas. That being the case, if I were to go with AT&T or T-Mobile, I wouldn't be able to get signal where I live. My only options, given that, would be to go ahead and use Verizon, or use the smaller providers, or use prepaid. I've been on Verizon since before they even had feature phones, and at the time, the only prepaid service available here was TracFone. I'm not saying anything bad about TracFone, they were pretty good for the first year or two that I actually owned a cell phone. I made the switch to Verizon, and despite all of the complaints I've heard and read, I've never had a bit of trouble with Big Red. As such, I've stuck with the company I've always used. Heck, even on my previous smartphones, the CDMA bit didn't cause any problem with development.
And then I got an Xperia Play. The only problem I have with this phone is the fact that the R800x has been treated (to borrow a phrase) as the "red-headed stepchild" as compared to the other models of the R800 line. May I just say now that I didn't get the Xperia Play to hack my phone. I got the phone because I'm a gamer, and the game pad gave the phone much more appeal than the other available phones. But since I like to mess with phones, as I had on my previous ones, I decided to jump right in to the scene, as I had before.
Now, I've followed all of the recommended routes with this phone. I've paid to have the bootloader unlocked, read up on the things I need to know to manipulate this phone, and have tried to help other users in figuring out their phones. I'm not going to say I've contributed anything, really, because I call it just being a helpful person. Heck, I've even clicked the "Thanks" button a few times! While I can't say that all of the R800x users have followed the same path as I have, I can say that given the seclusion that we CDMA users have faced hasn't gotten the core of us down. In fact, as an example, chevyowner was single-handedly modifying the CM9 roms to work for us CDMA users, making the data and such work just as flawlessly as it does for GSM users. When he said he got a new phone and wouldn't be able to "port" it anymore, at least three members immediately stood up to take his place. If that's not a community coming together, I don't know what is.
Oh, and as for calling out the R800x noobs, take a look in the Q&A sections, the GSM threads, and heck, take a look at the thread that started this all, the MIUI thread. I see far more GSM members complaining, moaning, and bugging the devs than I do CDMA users. So before you single out a small group that has already been secluded time and time again, take a look at the bigger picture.
One more thing. People who can only get reliable CDMA signal in their area can't simply "stop being cheap and buy an unlocked phone." Your special unlocked GSM phones won't work on our network. Now before you say I'm complaining, I'm not. It's my choice to stay on Verizon's network, and truth be told, I don't mind having to look a little harder to mod the phones that I have available to me. I just happened to choose this one. It's not the limited support for the R800x that bugs me, it's elitists like you that think others should conform to your standards.
Hogwarts said:
If it's already powerful what do we need to keep modding it for?
The only mods that make sense now are hardware ones. and that is the new direction I'm headed
Mainly because I want my Xperia to pickup better signal while I'm out around and exploring new citys.
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I'm just a user myself, but XDA is primarily a development site, not a user support site, people are here for the modding. Most people seems to forget this which is also why there are lots of trolls.
Anyway, to answer your question, I like my Android like my linux, not like iOS. Besides flashing radios can improve signal and other software factors has effects too.