I just got a response from HTC regarding an email that I sent that had to do with pretty much all of the EVO's issues, grounded screen, fps, etc. I'd like to attach the email, however their is a confidentiality Note at the end of it stating that I could get into some legal trouble if I share it with others...Not exactly sure how that works, but I don't want any problems so i'll just sum up what was said.
Regarding the screen issues, I was told that they are under investigation and changes have been made and they are researching any other changes that may be necessary. He said they do have software updates coming out soon but he couldn't specify the exact date... so from all this I assume that within the next month or so all screen issues will be resolved. Their will be an update that takes care of the grounding issues and newer model EVOs wont have issues with the screen coming out of place..
Anybody holding out on the EVO because of its screen problems just wait a month and most likely it will be good.
As for the FPS cap, all he did was confirm that it was a hardware limitation and that they are aware that it has an impact on gaming performance. However, he also stated that they have reports of the FPS rate causing sluggish screen responses (which in all honesty, it doesn't) but they haven't been able to replicate....He did't address as to whether or not any changes would be made or not..
I think that it is finally safe to say beyond a reasonable doubt that the fps cap is hardware related, no more need to waste time over whether it is or isn't. I don't know much about phone development, so i'm not sure if you can remove the cap if it's hardware related, but I assume since HTC was testing to see if it had any effect on the overall performance of the device and since they were trying to replicate any issues the cap might have caused, then that might be a signal that it is fixable. Why would they even worry about it otherwise?
I just wanted to update you all because I know a lot of EVO users have been having numerous concerns. I started a new thread because all of the previous ones are becoming to overcrowded with egomaniacs.
hope this helps even the least bit.
P.S the email that I received actually seemed to be very genuine and wasn't nearly as generic as most of the previous emails many of us have been receiving.
yeah we really needed another thread on this.
starplaya93 said:
I think that it is finally safe to say beyond a reasonable doubt that the fps cap is hardware related
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Click to collapse
Dude, no. We won't know for sure until more research is done and the kernel source is released. Everything else is pure speculation.
As for the responses, you apparently got the same canned responses people have been getting on the other thread. I'm not sure if creating a whole new thread for this was necessary.
well the person I emailed was the HTC product support manager and he and htc in general have no reason to lie about it being a hardware issue. It doesn't save nor create any extra hassle for them if they lie to us. We are their customers and the EVO is their product, they know it best... So being that THEY HAVE NO REASON TO LIE TO US, we can conclude what both sprint and HTC managers have told us about the cap is true...
and I didn't post this thread to necessarily be a replacement for the other, I just wanted a fresh start so I people could avoid reading through all of the useless bickering and get updated.
No hostility is necessary, I was just simply trying to do the members of this forum a favor.
starplaya93 said:
he and htc in general have no reason to lie about it being a hardware issue
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Click to collapse
Um, yeah they could lie... And have a really good reason to. Imagine if they told you it was a software issue, would you back off? But your willing to back off if it is a hardware limitation.
HTC has lied to us before. I want to say Mogul with the GPS chip, but I don't remember which phone it was. So many ROMs and phones ago..
HTC LIE?!?! ROFL. Everyday that goes by they're breaking the law by not releasing the Kernel Source for every phone they have out...
HTC is above the law and the truth.
VoXHTC said:
HTC LIE?!?! ROFL. Everyday that goes by they're breaking the law by not releasing the Kernel Source for every phone they have out...
HTC is above the law and the truth.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's a law requiring them to release a kernal source? Considering how out of touch the legal system is with technology, I can't imagine that.
This sucks if it is hardware though. It doesn't explain the 60fps boot-up stuff though, usually hardware is hardware, if it can do 60fps at all, it should be able to do it within the OS with the proper drivers/etc.
It's just like the AT&T Tilt when they claimed the phone didn't have the "hardware" to do the 3d. When it turned out (if I recall) they were just too cheap to buy the drivers from Broadcom and co.
I can't help but think that maybe this is a hold-back feature (limiting 3d gaming) simply so they can release an almost identical phone (different shell, model. carrier?) 6 months down the road as "new" without doing much R&D on it. It's a tactic that Apple has thrived with for years on their iPhone.
KyleK29 said:
There's a law requiring them to release a kernal source? Considering how out of touch the legal system is with technology, I can't imagine that.
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Click to collapse
Short answer: Yes. Many companies have successfully been sued for millions for not complying with the GPL license. This isn't much of a "technology" issue as it is a licensing issue.
MordyT said:
I want to say Mogul with the GPS chip, but I don't remember which phone it was. So many ROMs and phones ago..
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Click to collapse
Yeah- When Sprint first released the Mogul (PPC-6800), they said the GPS would not be available for use. The Internal GPS was locked blah blah blah, then HTC released a firmware that unlocked the GPS along with Rev A and other stuff.
Wow, that was... 3 years ago now??
Aridon said:
yeah we really needed another thread on this.
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Click to collapse
Yeah, that was assholish
KyleK29 said:
There's a law requiring them to release a kernal source? Considering how out of touch the legal system is with technology, I can't imagine that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, they agreed to the GPL by using the linux kernel. Nowhere in the GPL does it say 'you can release your modified source whenever you feel like it, as long as you do it EVENTUALLY.' HTC is violating the GPL every second that the kernel source remains unreleased.
Also, this whole hardware/software based cap issue is tending to be rather heated. People just need to chill. It all boils down to, noone has any proof that it is either hardware or software based.
There are many interpretations from that HTC email that you talked about in the OP. My personal interpretation is that there was a hardware limitation that caused them to create a software based cap on the framerate. Which would still imply that it was a hardware limitation, but the only solution they could come up with at the time was to cap the framerate. Now I could be wrong, but that is how I take the vagueness of their responses.
Keep in mind too, these are their customer service emails. They aren't going to go into detail with you about why they did what they did and how they did it. They are just going to try to make you feel like you got as much info as you needed to remain satisfied.
F**k em
People are you flippin serious ? We overclock our hardware all the time with software . Even hardware ( the screen) has software. We just need the kernel source and asop Rom. We overdrive our lcd's from 60 to 75 and even 90fps on laptops. Iam sure we will drain battery and gain more heat.
The Droid Incredible is the same hardware minus the different screen and it does not have that issue. The cpu/gpu is the same. So the screen is the only thing it could be hardware and there is no way they put a 30hz screen. If the screen was 30hz they would have to put a software cap on the gpu to lock it at 30fps to match the screen. Then why if thats the case are some people getting higher then 30fps when the screen is off? It should always be at 30fps no matter what. I think they put a software cap to save battery and they got caught with their pants down. I bet they didnt think people would find out so quick and was hoping this would give them time to fix battery life issues. I read somewhere that 4g is a tack on patch on 2.1 and the 4g isn't really supported until 2.2 (Froyo). Thats kinda why 4g eats the battery so bad.
The only other thing it could be is because of the Hdmi, i will go into that one later.
Here's another response I got from HTC:
Thank you for your reply. Your feedback is very important to us. The touch screen is pressure sensitive. For example, by applying direct focused pressure, and swiping your finger in quick strokes, the pages will scroll more quickly. If you apply, light pressure, and scroll lightly, the pages will not scroll as fast. It takes time to get to know the device, but hopefully, these tips will help you better navigate on the device. Since the HTC EVO 4G employs a unique HDMI output to deliver video in HD quality to an external display, the hardware graphics driver interface on the HTC EVO 4G uses significant resources for the HDMI output and therefore displays graphics at 30 frames per second on the integrated display. This is hardware, and not software, limitation. It’s important to keep in mind that content including most movies and television, are created to run at between 24 and 30 frames per second. The 30FPS is a hardware limitation. We have found that some games may be impacted by this limitation. Thank you again for contacting HTC. I appreciate the time you have taken, to share your experience with us today. I want to apologize for any inconveniences you may have experienced. In order to help improve our service I’d like to invite you to take a survey at http://survey.htc.com/worldwide
I ask about the FPS and this is the response that I got from HTC
Dear -----------------,
Dear Mr(s) ------------------- Thanks for contacting our Technical Support center, where we will give you the best service's quality and the answers for all your questions. Right now we know about this issues with this models nad we are working in order to launch a hot-fix to solve it, as soon as we launch it you will be able to donwload it from our website, thanks for all you information, we recommend you visit regularly the htc page for new updates www.htc.com/www, click on support,select your phone and click on download software.
roybotnik said:
Yes, they agreed to the GPL by using the linux kernel. Nowhere in the GPL does it say 'you can release your modified source whenever you feel like it, as long as you do it EVENTUALLY.' HTC is violating the GPL every second that the kernel source remains unreleased.
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Click to collapse
Exactly, we get engadget, etc to cover the 30fps cap but there is very little coverage on the GPL violations. We won't get any straight answers on these issues until the source is released, that is what we should be pushing for.
Oh well... I just gave you guys my interpretation on the situation. Everybody has their two cents and thats fine, lets just all agree to disagree... If the devs here have been busting their ass's to fix the cap and have got nothing, then thats just more proof that it is a hardware cap...
In the end it won't matter I suppose. when htc releases the kernel, regardless if its a software or hardware cap, we should be able to fix it.
We should all just wait it out and see what happens. The phone hasn't even been out for a month. Patience is a virtue I suppose...
It's getting pretty obvious that it's a hardware cap. With that said, why on earth would they do a hardware cap just for hdmi when most people will never even use it once? It's not like we'll use hdmi every minute of every day. Bad decision on HTC's part. "Hey, let's take away 50% of the graphics power and put it into hdmi, even though people won't use it everyday or even ever."
Sorry but as a programmer/developer I'm not happy with this, do you know how much code we'd have to add/change for a gimped EVO? I planned on developing some apps for android, but now I have to make special versions for the evo because of hardware fps caps... or I could just say "Because of hardware fps issues, it doesn't work with EVO, sorry EVO users!" I'm definitely not gonna program all my games and graphics applications to run at 30fps when everyone is running at 60fps, except the gimped EVO.
I'll be exploring other options like the droid x, droid 2, galaxy s.
Thanks HTC!
The phone has been out for two weeks. Lack of development on something we need the source code on to fix means jack ****.
Many device have too wait longer just for root much less anything significant.
Related
Hi everyone,
I'm in the midst of trying to understand the full potential of a rooted Android phone, and have started a thread here. I wish to invite users with good knowledge of what a rooted phone could do to contribute to the thread here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=6210151#post6210151
Looking forward to your participation.
potential
This phone is going to be incredible!!! the nexus one and its insane price tag will eat it bad on this one. Plus the Incredible is hands down better than the nexus, and thats just on paper!!! wait till it in our hands!!! lol I have a ROOTED Droid Eris (selling to help compensate for incredible) thats a month old, a ROOTED and OvrClocked Moto Droid thats a week old, and I already have pre-ordered a shiny new HTC Incredible (soon to be rooted lol).
about the droid
the droid is not hands down better then the nexous one
they are the same phones same processors and almost same everything
the droid has a better camera and more ram
thats it
so how is that hands down a better phone
i ordered mine and got it yesterday for my wife she is on verizon
i have the nexous one and after hella playing with both and testing both there about the same
my nexous one is faster but its rooted
i like the droids looks and how skinny it is but its not hands down better then the nexous one
also its does not have the Noise Cancellation technology but from what i can tell there both great call audio
p71ricky said:
This phone is going to be incredible!!! the nexus one and its insane price tag will eat it bad on this one. Plus the Incredible is hands down better than the nexus, and thats just on paper!!! wait till it in our hands!!! lol I have a ROOTED Droid Eris (selling to help compensate for incredible) thats a month old, a ROOTED and OvrClocked Moto Droid thats a week old, and I already have pre-ordered a shiny new HTC Incredible (soon to be rooted lol).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
3 new phones in a month? Wow. Can your reverse the root on the Eris and Droid and return them? I thought people had 30 days to evaluate and return.
He's a collector
sn95chico said:
the droid is not hands down better then the nexous one
they are the same phones same processors and almost same everything
the droid has a better camera and more ram
thats it
so how is that hands down a better phone
i ordered mine and got it yesterday for my wife she is on verizon
i have the nexous one and after hella playing with both and testing both there about the same
my nexous one is faster but its rooted
i like the droids looks and how skinny it is but its not hands down better then the nexous one
also its does not have the Noise Cancellation technology but from what i can tell there both great call audio
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well for one. It has better touch sensor technology, 8gig of internal memory for music/media/whatever/, actually can get reception? The noise cancel tech isn't really important and doesn't always work flawlessly. Just the better touch senor and reception make it FAR superior to the nexus one. Plus it has an Fm modulator and an 8mp cam that apparently takes great pics and video soo,
the droid is not hands down better then the nexous one
they are the same phones same processors and almost same everything
the droid has a bett
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well for one. It has better touch sensor technology, 8gig of internal memory for music/media/whatever/, actually can get reception? The noise cancel tech isn't really important and doesn't always work flawlessly. Just the better touch senor and reception make it FAR superior to the nexus one. Plus it has an Fm modulator and an 8mp cam that apparently takes great pics and video soo,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
See if you still feel the same when N1 is running Froyo while INC is still stuck on Eclair many months from now lol
modidlee said:
See if you still feel the same when N1 is running Froyo while INC is still stuck on Eclair many months from now lol
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Click to collapse
Please tell me you're joking.
I'm gonna throw this out there right now:
The Nexus One is JUNK.
Between the crap screen, crap touch sensor, crap network (mine was tmo), there's no arguing that the Incredible is better.
And check this out. You're probably unfamiliar with the concept, so I'll help drop some knowledge on you....
Custom Roms.
When Froyo is released for any phone, someone will package it for the Incredible (and every other device under the sun. Maybe we'll have to wait a week or two, maybe we won't. But I'll tell you this - I won't miss clicking my 'Browser' icon on my desktop and the piece of $h!t touchscreen sensor mistaking it for 'Phone'.
m1k3- said:
Please tell me you're joking.
I'm gonna throw this out there right now:
The Nexus One is JUNK.
Between the crap screen, crap touch sensor, crap network (mine was tmo), there's no arguing that the Incredible is better.
And check this out. You're probably unfamiliar with the concept, so I'll help drop some knowledge on you....
Custom Roms.
When Froyo is released for any phone, someone will package it for the Incredible (and every other device under the sun. Maybe we'll have to wait a week or two, maybe we won't. But I'll tell you this - I won't miss clicking my 'Browser' icon on my desktop and the piece of $h!t touchscreen sensor mistaking it for 'Phone'.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Im going to throw this out there for you....
Nexus one is far from junk.
I have it and I am on Tmo, I have excellent reception, the screen is loads better than many phones, and my touch screen works fine.
My Co-worker just got the incredible under my advisement when it became clear that verizon was passing on the nexus. I have played with it and put swype and the 3d gallery on it for her. It is a nice phone, sure it has some upgrades compared to the nexus but is is far from an "OMG this phone pwns" type of a situation.
As far as the firmware issue...not everyone wants to void their warranty and put custom firmware on their device, some people just want a legit OTA update in a timely fashion...me I always void warranties.
Different opinions are fine, but you dont have to be a closed minded douche about it.
Mike
I agree with Mike the N1 is not junk. I made the switch from the N1 to the Incredible. While I freaking love the Incredible (especially the fact that the touchscreen isn't laggy/glitchy) and have found it to be markedly more polished, I will always regard my N1 fondly. It was so nice knowing that root access was waiting for me before my device even arrived (it may be a while before this happens with the Incredible), and the level of customization available for the N1 made it a blast to play with (and made it fast as hell too). What I don't understand is why people get so pissy in these threads. I mean c'mon, we are only dealing with phones here. I would hate to see how some of these folks react in situations that actually matter
it's called credibility....
Until you guys, NOT MENTIONING ANY NAMES, can say that something "is better THAN" something else instead of "better THEN" you sound like an uneducated idiot. And I can't even finish reading your post because anything you say has no CREDIBILITY. sorry.
Ok but seriously, i'm on verizon, have had the vogue, hated WINMO, switched to blackberry pearl flip, which was nice to me, except locked gps, then found this awesome site, unlocked my vogue, put a 6.5 rom on it (thanks nfsfan) tried most of the android distros, and realized that a phone pumping some power paired up with android is the way to go. Ordered my incredible online, it arrived friday, waiting on me when i got home from work, and haven't looked back. I don't have direct comparison to a N1 or Eris, or any other android phone for that matter, but it is AWE-SOME..... Screen is brilliant, connectivity is easy, feels good in the hands... i also work for a company that sells sprint, so i will get to do a side by side with the EVO that is supposed to conquer anything else that is currently out. we'll see....
mike105105 said:
Im going to throw this out there for you....
Nexus one is far from junk.
I have it and I am on Tmo, I have excellent reception, the screen is loads better than many phones, and my touch screen works fine.
My Co-worker just got the incredible under my advisement when it became clear that verizon was passing on the nexus. I have played with it and put swype and the 3d gallery on it for her. It is a nice phone, sure it has some upgrades compared to the nexus but is is far from an "OMG this phone pwns" type of a situation.
As far as the firmware issue...not everyone wants to void their warranty and put custom firmware on their device, some people just want a legit OTA update in a timely fashion...me I always void warranties.
Different opinions are fine, but you dont have to be a closed minded douche about it.
Mike
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Uh, are you familiar with the touch controller's tracking issues? And that's not even to mention the 3g issues. Screens spontaneously cracking? N1 has issues.
As far as people wanting to keep their phones stock... To each their own for sure on that one.
However if you're one of those people, why would you even be here?
The point was that the Incredible wouldn't get Froyo for "several months" after the N1 does. That's a BS statement and I called him on it. If that makes me a ****, I'll take the hit.
Personally the N1 seems like a better phone because I don't have to deal with the bugs. But thats only because I don't own one of them yet.
m1k3- said:
Uh, are you familiar with the touch controller's tracking issues? And that's not even to mention the 3g issues. Screens spontaneously cracking? N1 has issues.
As far as people wanting to keep their phones stock... To each their own for sure on that one.
However if you're one of those people, why would you even be here?
The point was that the Incredible wouldn't get Froyo for "several months" after the N1 does. That's a BS statement and I called him on it. If that makes me a *****, I'll take the hit.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First off, the touchscreen issue is a combo of software and crap buildup on the screen, once I took care of those issues it hasnt happened again.
Like I said I have no issues with 3g.
A few random people out of a couple hundred thousand phones does not make the screen cracking a real issue, more than likely a user problem...though I am not placing blame just stating a very real possibility.
If you know what this site is like then you must know that many people come here for things other than custom firmware, from apps to Q&A, this site has more to offer than custom firmware.
And as for his original statement on froyo, he is probably right in that the nexus will get an OFFICIAL upgrade before the other phones.
And you are a **** because you used the term ****
Mike
mike105105 said:
First off, the touchscreen issue is a combo of software and crap buildup on the screen, once I took care of those issues it hasnt happened again.
Like I said I have no issues with 3g.
A few random people out of a couple hundred thousand phones does not make the screen cracking a real issue, more than likely a user problem...though I am not placing blame just stating a very real possibility.
If you know what this site is like then you must know that many people come here for things other than custom firmware, from apps to Q&A, this site has more to offer than custom firmware.
And as for his original statement on froyo, he is probably right in that the nexus will get an OFFICIAL upgrade before the other phones.
And you are a **** because you used the term ****
Mike
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Congratulations on not having the 3g issues like thousands of other people have had. Maybe it's because you're not a ****? Or maybe your N1 is magical? Or maybe you're just in denial about it?
At any rate, I don't believe your touchscreen issues were resolved with a kleenex. Many believe it's due to the actual controller in the phone. Maybe it could be fixed with software, maybe not. Either way nothing's been done about it to this point, so the issue still exists. But since we've established your N1 may be magical, you may not have these issues.
As far as an OFFICIAL SUPER DOPE FROYO RELEASE.
Hey, if you're naive enough to run a completely non-optimized stock ROM on your phone..... Have at it.
Again, your point was that we Incredible users would have to wait SEVERAL MONTHS for Froyo. We won't. Deal with it.
In terms of a Development Community the Nexus is the way to go(CyanogenMod, need i say more?).
But as far as a 'features' comparison goes the Incredible wins.
Also as far as a reliable network outside of major metro areas Verizon owns T-Mobile.
When the Incredible has root user access and superuser permissions enabled there will be less that separates the two assuming Sense is able to be removed and native 2.2 is able to be installed on the Incredible.
As a Verizon customer who wants reliable coverage, I had to go with the Incredible. If we all wait for the 'next best phone' well we would never buy a phone b/c that happens monthly. Let's do out best to support the developers and not piss off the Nexus one developers too much because if we are nice and supportive maybe they will work to enable the features that the Nexus One has with root access to our Incredibles, cyanogenmod included.
m1k3- said:
Congratulations on not having the 3g issues like thousands of other people have had. Maybe it's because you're not a *****? Or maybe your N1 is magical? Or maybe you're just in denial about it?
At any rate, I don't believe your touchscreen issues were resolved with a kleenex. Many believe it's due to the actual controller in the phone. Maybe it could be fixed with software, maybe not. Either way nothing's been done about it to this point, so the issue still exists. But since we've established your N1 may be magical, you may not have these issues.
As far as an OFFICIAL SUPER DOPE FROYO RELEASE.
Hey, if you're naive enough to run a completely non-optimized stock ROM on your phone..... Have at it.
Again, your point was that we Incredible users would have to wait SEVERAL MONTHS for Froyo. We won't. Deal with it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Look, I really wish this didnt have to spiral into childish bull. The whole point was you were acting like an **** before, and then you continue to act like an ****. Just GROW UP!! My phone is not magical it is just the fact that NOT EVERYONE HAS THOSE ISSUES.
Do some damn reading, capacitive touchscreens can be affected by conductive buildup on the screen...like greasy fingerprints and sweat, so yeah I have CM installed and I keep my screen clean and I have not had the issue again. How can it be the controller when that same controller is used in many other devices.
And once again, just because many people do have 3g issues doesnt mean everyone does. I have a constant 3g connection and have no issues, no magic involved.
And your last ridiculously stupid comment about running stock froyo...what is wrong with people possibly wanting to stick to a stock OS...that was not the original argument, the original argument was who was going to get an official update first, not weather stock is better than custom.
The problem with your arguments is that you are using an all or nothing logic, if some people have an issue it means everyone has that issue...regardless of what they tell you. You just make some nonsensical statements about their phone being magical, and some weak attempts at witty put downs.
THE ONLY THING THAT WAS BEING ARGUED IN THE BEGINNING WAS THE WAY YOU WERE ACTING.
TREAT PEOPLE WITH SOME RESPECT!
Mike
So the person that started name-calling (you) is lamenting that the thread has spiraled into something childish. Oh, the irony.
Why haven't there been a rash of complaints about touchscreen inaccuracy on any other android phone (at least not to the extent of the problems with the N1)? Oh wait, I know! N1 users must have greasier fingers than the average users of other android phones, right?
Wipe the screen? That's your fix? Seriously? I've used touchscreen phones for about 5 years now:
2 treos, 2 iphones, 3 android phones.
The ONLY touchscreen I've ever had ANY issues with is my N1. To be fair, the treos obviously weren't capacative, but still.
My argument isn't an all or nothing argument. Heck, I never even said the Incredible 'totally pwns' the N1. My only point is that the N1 had way too many bugs when it was first released. My opinion is that for the cost of the phone, some of the parts are a bit questionable.
And again, when it comes to Froyo, don't roll up on what's probably the largest android custom rom development site bragging about how the Incredible isn't going to get an OFFICIAL Froyo update until way after the N1. Because the 99% of us that are here are using custom roms (yourself included) and we just don't give a ****. Again, deal with it.
Thepoint in saying what he did about Froyo was basically 'HAHA THE N1 IS GONNA HAVE FROYO AND ALL OF ITS DOPE FEATURES MONTHS BEFORE YOUR INCREDIBLE WILL'. Again, it's simply not true and we all know it.
In the end, it's just my opinion about a phone.
MY problem is you made a bunch of matter-of-fact statements, I said that is not so with my phone, then you go and start mocking me saying that my phone must be magical.
Ok so you have used touchscreen phones for years...I am an electronics technician and an embedded systems programmer...but go ahead and tell me, because you know better, that a dirty capacitive screen, along with a sensor gain turned up too high in software cant cause the exact issues. I mean a bunch of people admitted that the problem went away after they changed firmware.
As far as the N1 having too many bugs, didnt the incredible already get an OTA because of a few major bugs.
And once again your lack of logic shows....the froyo thing....I will say it again, it doesnt matter how many people come here for custom firmware, most does not equal all so stop saying that just because many of the people here use CF, that is all everyone here uses. The point is still valid, the N1 will probably get an OFFICIAL update first. That word I used, official, is a qualifier...that means the argument I am making is based on that point being true.
mike105105 said:
MY problem is you made a bunch of matter-of-fact statements, I said that is not so with my phone, then you go and start mocking me saying that my phone must be magical.
Ok so you have used touchscreen phones for years...I am an electronics technician and an embedded systems programmer...but go ahead and tell me, because you know better, that a dirty capacitive screen, along with a sensor gain turned up too high in software cant cause the exact issues. I mean a bunch of people admitted that the problem went away after they changed firmware.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Word. Your theory could hold water. However, I'm a Linux Sys Engineer going on about 10 years now, so I do know a thing or two about Linux. And what I know leads me to believe otherwise. From the stock ROM, to the several versions of CM, to a few versions of KingClick's Desire ROM, ALL of them exhibit the touchscreen issues on my phone. This is probably due to the fact that while each one might run slightly modified kernels, the module that handles the touchscreen support is the same in all of them, since it's ultimately built from the same sources. Maybe it's my specific phone, but I find that hard to believe given the scope of complaints I've read here and elsewhere on the Internet.
mike105105 said:
As far as the N1 having too many bugs, didnt the incredible already get an OTA because of a few major bugs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Indeed, sir. But as far as I know it was only to resolve an exchange support issue. I'll gladly deal with this issue to have a properly working touchscreen. Again, I never said or even implied the Incredible is perfect.
mike105105 said:
And once again your lack of logic shows....the froyo thing....I will say it again, it doesnt matter how many people come here for custom firmware, most does not equal all so stop saying that just because many of the people here use CF, that is all everyone here uses. The point is still valid, the N1 will probably get an OFFICIAL update first. That word I used, official, is a qualifier...that means the argument I am making is based on that point being true.
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You're arguing with yourself on this one, dude.
My logic was quite lucid. My point was essentially that I believe 99% of the people who frequent these forums run custom ROMs on their handsets. Therefore other than using them for the purposes of building custom ROMs, no one really gives a rat's a** about 'official' ROMs, because 99% of the people here probably don't run them on their phone.
Furthermore, the 99% of us that do run custom ROMs will be running the Incredible's version of whatever Froyo ROMs are available.... Probably within a week or two of when they're available for the N1. We will not have to wait 'several months' as the other dude stated earlier.
I sent the following today to the following email addresses:
To:
dan(at)sprint
sprintcares(at)sprint
Peter_Chou(at)htc
HT_Cho(at)htc
Fred_Liu(at)htc
Keith_Nowak(at)htc
John_Wang(at)htc
Cher_Wang(at)htc
Mark_Baker(at)htc
Hello,
I am a brand new customer that came over from AT&T to buy the HTC EVO 4G.
I have been mostly happy with the phone, but very unhappy about the 30 FPS cap on the graphics ... the Nexus One runs on the same hardware and is able to push 60FPS or more. To add insult to injury, my EVO's screen is starting to separate at the bottom of the device, which means I am going to have to either return it or exchange it for a new EVO prior to the 30 day limit. At first I was content to just exchange my EVO for a new one, but here are my concerns:
1. Are these problems going to be fixed? If I get a new EVO, will HTC/Sprint ever fix the graphics problem? Will I have another instance of hardware failure (screen separation)? Further reading on this topic here: (links removed due to XDA policy)
2. I bought and paid about $30 to have a ZAGG shield installed on the face of the EVO (lifetime warranty permanent screen protector) ... if I exchange my EVO, there is another $30 I am paying. What happens if I keep having hardware failures? Do I have to pay $30 each time to have my ZAGG shield replaced? Unacceptable!
3. Screen Responsiveness - The top part of my EVO is not very responsive, possibly due to a improperly grounded screen. Yet another reason I have to return it. Unfortunately, there are none in my area so I have to wait until they come in. Will the new one have the same problems?
4. WiFi strength on the EVO is lackluster at best. More reading here: (Link removed due to XDA policy)
5. Evo 4G is the first 4G phone - too bad you can hardly ever get 4G reception and when you do, the speed is not nearly what Sprint has advertised. This is not a dealbreaker because this phone has so many great qualities, but the speed tests that I and others have done show that the speed on the 4G is not that great, not even better than AT&T's iPhone 3GS speeds much of the time. Very sad.
I would like to say I am going to be a loyal Sprint and HTC customer for many years, but with all these issues I am seriously considering returning my phone and cancelling my service within the 30 day window.
Can you help me understand how these problems will be fixed? What is your time frame for fixing them? Are the Sprint and HTC teams even aware of these issues and are you looking into them? I have found I love Android phones now, but I can just as easily cancel my contract and move to T-Mobile who supports a wide variety of Android phones (Nexus One, anyone?). Please help me understand why it is best to stay with Sprint and HTC. I *want* to be a loyal customer, but I need to know that my concerns are being heard and addressed.
Thank you in advance for your time!
Sincerely,
Tim D.
Also - Mods - can I get verified? How do I make that happen? Thanks, Tim.
At least you didn't ***** about the 10 dollar Premium Data. That + former AT&T customer = nice letter
Thanks ... I tried to keep it as positive as I could. I have had pretty good luck getting things accomplished with EECB's that are positive. (I recently had my Dell XPS m1730 repaired out of warranty after I aired my concerns to Dell)
I hope we can find a resolution. The EVO is a GREAT phone plagued by a few problems that hopefully can be resolved one way or another.
Edit: Perhaps if some other forum members would like to write up their own letters and send them, maybe we can get some movement on this.
Pull your ZAGG screen off and then get a warranty replacement for $5 shipping. They replace it free if you replace your device.
Thank you for that tip about the ZAGG shield - I was not aware of that... I will have to wait until the last second though to make sure I actually get a new EVO from Radio Shack
Maybe if we all send nice letters, we could MAYBE at least get the source.
Bump!
Nobody else has sent an EECB? might be a good way to get some much needed attention for these problems...
I was planning to and then got side-tracked. I shall later tonight. Much thanks for bringing it to my attention again!
timkdodson said:
Bump!
Nobody else has sent an EECB? might be a good way to get some much needed attention for these problems...
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My only complaint is the serious lack of WIFI, and even when i do have it the speeds are terrible. also 4g isn;t official in my area but i get it sometimes 1 or 2 bars max (only in 1 spot outside my house its kinda odd). The speeds are hitting close to 4mbps for me. I hope they finish installing 4g in the boston area.
So are those all the email addresses I need to email? Are they all .com?
Well, I just EECB'd them, putting a particular slant on the issue of releasing the source. I have a gut feeling that HTC is working to do this, but it would be really nice to get a straight answer out of them. (So, be nice to HTC.)
Hello, and to whom it may concern:
Like many other potential smartphone customers, I've been looking forward to the release of the HTC EVO 4G. I've been using prepaid phones for too long and had myself set on finally becoming a Sprint customer with an EVO.
As someone who was lucky enough to get an EVO from Google I/O this year, I've been using the phone for the past three weeks or so. While the phone has almost lived up to my expectations, there is one major flaw that I find unacceptable: the artificial graphics performance cap on the phone.
At Google I/O, Google and their partners showed off many different Android phones, both new and old. Most of the higher-end phones, including HTC's own Nexus One, have great performance. Games run speedily and smoothly and the interface positively flows. That, however, is not the case with the EVO. The EVO, even with its top of the line hardware, is artificially capped at rendering 30 frames per second. I find this very unfortunate, as a side by side comparison between the Nexus One, EVO, and iPhone will show that the Nexus and iPhone run their respective UIs and games much more smoothly than the EVO. I expected 3D performance to be a selling point with such a gorgeous phone—I guess not.
I, along with many others, have contacted HTC about this issue. HTC's official line is that the 30 FPS cap was intended to "improve battery life" and they have no plans to change this. While this is disappointing, it is HTC's right to build their firmware how they want. However, I ask HTC: please make this fact more public. This cap was a rude surprise to developers and has made many of them unhappy, even leading to some phone returns, as evidenced by the discussion on prominent phone dev boards: http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=620. (I've come close to wanting a refund—but my phone was free, so I have no hard feelings.)
In addition, I'd like to ask HTC to expedite the release of your Android kernel source so that developers like me can remove this cap. I'm sure many others will do the same, even if it does void their warranty and is not officially supported. It would be nice to have a phone that actually works as advertised.
HTC makes good phones; there's no reason to artificially limit the EVO from becoming HTC's best.
Thank you for your time and for listening to my concerns.
[My Name]
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redct said:
Well, I just EECB'd them, putting a particular slant on the issue of releasing the source. I have a gut feeling that HTC is working to do this, but it would be really nice to get a straight answer out of them. (So, be nice to HTC.)
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nicely written
redct said:
Well, I just EECB'd them, putting a particular slant on the issue of releasing the source. I have a gut feeling that HTC is working to do this, but it would be really nice to get a straight answer out of them. (So, be nice to HTC.)
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GREAT JOB. Very nicely written.
On another note, I have been reading about what may be Sprint's 2nd 4G phone, the Samsung Galaxy S Pro... I am thinking of returning my EVO and waiting for the Galaxy to drop... too many problems with the EVO. The sad thing is I have to do it within the 30 day money back timeframe, so I am quickly going to be coming up on a hard stop.... ARGH!
Instant response: f**k yeah!
EDIT: Got an reply from Dan Hesse's office saying that they'll reply w/more info within the next day or so.
Hello _______,
Thank you for providing us with the request for the sourc code for your EVO 4G, to which I understand you are entitled. I also understand that in the legal information of the phone it says to contact Customer Service with this request, although that is not entirely correct. From Technical Support, we can only pass along your request to the appropriate department, and as they do have your request it will be posted. This is not a gambit of any sort nor a desire to keep anything from our users; as to why it is not available yet, I do not know, nor do my supervisors. If we at Technical Support did have access to either send out the code or post it on the website, I would be more than happy to do so as I understand that you are anxious for it and I would love to be able to provide it.
I agree; the phone is great and I am fairly excited myself to see what you and the rest of the developers come up with.
The request has been made to the appropriate department, and when the code is posted it will be available at developer.htc.com. I apologize that it is not available at this very moment, and I thank you for your patience in this matter. If you have any other questions, feel free to contact us again. You can find additional support at support forums at community.htc.com. There is also a customer satisfaction survey for you to take if you are interested.
Philip
HTC Technical Support
www.htc.com www.twitter.com/htc
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WAY TO GO! that is freaking awesome!!
Instant response: f**k yeah!
EDIT: Got an reply from Dan Hesse's office saying that they'll reply w/more info within the next day or so.
Hello _______,
Thank you for providing us with the request for the sourc code for your EVO 4G, to which I understand you are entitled. I also unders
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-------------------------------------
Sent via the XDA Tapatalk App
redct said:
Instant response: f**k yeah!
EDIT: Got an reply from Dan Hesse's office saying that they'll reply w/more info within the next day or so.
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I wouldn't be surprised if Phillip is a lurker or even a member on XDA
timkdodson said:
WAY TO GO! that is freaking awesome!!
-------------------------------------
Sent via the XDA Tapatalk App
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That was from mid-tier customer support, so we'll also see if Sprint/HTC exec level people reply. Also, time to wait for the source code.
...looks like it's a waiting game now.
This is great news. Good job!!!
I registered just to say that this is great news. Hopefully it leads to a resolution.
Just posted this on the T-mobs forums and some of this is already in the "lets get the kernel thread" but I think we should make a single source for what information HTC is giving us in case this does proceed to legal action, etc. Had to futz a little with the hyperlinks since I'm a new poster to XDA but am not a new user of this blissful place. So here it is...
I call BS on the whole thing.
I've been trying to get HTC to release the source code and also bringing up the shenanigans that they pulled on us all with this root block and internal memory bait and switch crap. Here is my dealings with HTC so far. Love the blame game they switch at the end of our discussion. I know this is a lot to read but trust me that this back and forth is quite entertaining.
MY 1ST HTC MESSAGE
To whom it may pertain to... Just purchased a HTC T-mobile G2 aka HTC Vision and have been a avid HTC supporter for quite sometime. Ever since I owned my first HTC device the codenamed blueangel. The fact that HTC would work with the developer community pulled me toward your devices. I can't believe you guys (HTC) would lock down the successor to the device that helped you start the "open" revolution. I know it was most probably T-mobile that made you do it but that is besides the point. Especially since they have blamed you in the press. You have spit it the face of the developer community and shame on you and T-mobile. This protection will be broken I have no doubt of that but the fact that HTC put it there at all is what is in question. Please don't make this a race of protection...hack...protection...hack. OPEN means we should work together not against each other. So please do the right thing and help us either root these devices or give us the kernel source to help us along. Or even better do both of the above and show you respect the dev community like we all thought you did. Below I have included the first post of a stream that will become a torrent against HTC from the XDA devs. Thanks for your cooperation.
MY 1ST HTC REPLY
We cannot comment on whether or not HTC has blocked any customer from rooting or hacking their phone. Rooting the phone may open the phone up to virus attacks and other un-secure activities, as well as introduce intended functionality, and as such is very difficult for us to support. We cannot comment on whether or not HTC, Google, or T-Mobile has blocked any customer from rooting or hacking their phone. All three companies work very closely to bring you the best experience on the phone possible. I do understand how important it is to be able to use your device to the best of its capabilities. We are not withholding the kernel; we are currently working through the legal channels that we must go through to make the kernel available to you. Each product is individually under review. When the kernel is available, you will be able to find it on developer.htc.com. I apologize for any inconvenience you may have experienced, and thank you for your patience in this matter.
MY 2ND HTC MESSAGE
I understand the position of HTC to not comment on the situation at hand even though it has already been outed in the press by T-mobile that HTC did indeed lock the phone. So either you are saying that the T-mobile press release was a hoax and HTC did nothing with write protection or HTC just want's the problem to go away. As far as not wanting us to root because of unsafe activities.... Well I don't even know where to start with that comment. We are all big boys and girls and can handle the effect of our actions. It's like saying Toyota installed a system in my car that will only let a certified technician open the hood because I may insert washer fluid into the engine instead of oil. Most companies would love it if you would void your warranty. Does it not lead to less operating cost for HTC in the long run to not support it's products because the warranties are void? You don't want me to void my warranty then do as the GPS companies do and make a disclaimer that I have to read and agree to before I go any further. Also on the subject of voiding warranties did HTC not say that G2 had 4gb's of internal storage? Yet only 1.2gb are available for use because of this lock? Back to the car analogies. If Ford says your car has 200 horse power in the brochure and (AFTER!!!!) you buy it you learn that only 50 horse power is unlocked you might be a little angry. No? I understand the position of all big companies is to play dumb until something either is forgotten or legal channels make them play smart but I do have to say that I did not expect this out of HTC. This post isn't directed at you Sarah but merely my G2 and thousands of others crippled devices. If you could pass this and my prior message to someone higher up that might at least read it and think it over it would be greatly appreciated.
MY 2ND HTC REPLY
Thank you for contacting HTC Technical Assistance Center. I do understand your desire to fully explore the G2’s potential. Let me try and address your concerns one by one. In regards to your request for source code, HTC will typically publish on developer.htc the Kernel open source code for recently released devices. HTC will normally publish this within 90 to 120 days. This time frame is within the requirements of the open source community. As for your concerns about the internal memory space, the space listed on the box and in advertisements is the total storage capacity of the phone, and in fact does exist in the phone. The majority of the space is being used to make sure your phone is running at optimal performance levels. If you require more space, you can use the provided SD Card to add media and other files. Our SD card reader can support up to 16gb of extended storage. Try and look at it along the lines of your computer. Just because on a floppy disk you had 1.44 mb of space didn’t ever mean you could use all that. There was always an amount of space you could never use. This is true for any computer type related device with storage. Big or small there’s always an amount of “floating” space needed. At this point we will be happy to document your concern with the current release state of the phone. Your concerns are being forwarded to the proper departments. Beyond the information provided, however, we would have nothing additional to release
MY 3RD HTC MESSAGE
Ummm. The reply on the 1.44mb floppy is just crazy out of bounds. Yes I understand that if I install a 1tb drive on my computer some 100mb's or so may be floating but not 500 gigs of my drive!!! You guys commandeered over HALF of the internal storage of the G2. That's just crazy. Also on the (right?) that you have to release the source code in 90-120 days.... Who made up that number? Certainly not the GPL you are supposed to adhere to. An excerpt from freedom-to-tinker talking about the G2 source code. "Perhaps HTC (and T-Mobile, distributor of the phone) should review the actual contents of the GNU Public License (v2), which stipulate the legal requirements for modifying and redistributing Linux. They state that you may only distribute derivative code if you accompany it with the complete corresponding machine-readable source code." Notably, there is no mention of a "grace period" or the like. The importance of redistributing source code in a timely fashion goes beyond enabling phone rooting. It is the foundation of the "copyleft" regime of software licensing that has led to the flourishing of the open source software ecosystem. If every useful modification required waiting 90 to 120 days to be built upon, it would have taken eons to get to where we are today. It's one thing for a company to choose to pursue the closed-source model and to start from scratch, but it's another thing for it to profit from the goodwill of the open source community while imposing arbitrary and illegal restrictions on the code." Please release the code. =)
MY 3RD HTC REPLY
I understand how this can be frustrating for you. To start, we are aware of a situation where the phone is not properly reflecting the correct amount of storage available on the device and we are working with T-Mobile to figure out why this is happening and how to resolve it. I appreciate your patience with it. Next, we provide a timeframe of 90-120 days for the release of the source code as a courtesy for our customer. Unfortunately, HTC Technical Support has no control over what is or is not published on our website and we can only forward the requests to our software developement team and website administrator. The code will be released and when it is you may find it on our developer website. Unfortuantely, my office only handles the technical troubleshooting of our devices stock software and hardware. I do apologize for any inconvenience that you may have experienced through this.
I SMELL WEAK SAUCE ALL OVER THIS!!!!
Are you emailing HTC America about this? Not sure what you think that will accomplish given that none of their low level engineering is done in the US. Also, what's with the rage over root? Did the labelling on your G2 box promise root or bootloader access? I thought we all went into this with the assumption this would be a consumer device and as such was fair game for any sort of anti-cracking protection.
It's not really about the protection on the device as it is that they have to release the source code when they release the devices. HTC is getting out of hand with this. Google HTC GPL violation and you'll see what I mean.
Also the box did say that it had 4gb of internal storage. That turned out to be as true as me saying "I have a 12 inch **** but only when I have a certain signed key unlockable erection."
simobile said:
It's not really about the protection on the device as it is that they have to release the source code when they release the devices. HTC is getting out of hand with this. Google HTC GPL violation and you'll see what I mean.
Also the box did say that it had 4gb of internal storage. That turned out to be as true as me saying "I have a 12 inch **** but only when I have a certain signed key unlockable erection."
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lmfaooooooooooo i died reading this man hahahahahaha im in tears man. but that is true tho. what shocked is that this guys actually read and replied your messages. unbelievable, i would have thought they would send you one of those monotone messages like "thanks for contacting us, we appreciate your concern and we will get back to you type bologne " this shows that htc aint that bad but this still sucks, for now. two things lead me to believe that its gonna get rooted permanently:
1: this phone is bound to have updates which obviously isnt the stock that the phone came with. if this was a computer chip or whatever then any phone that comes with it wont recieve any updates because it will return to original way it came in the box right?
2: it will be really pointless releasing the source code if it wouldnt help with the rooting.
im not the best when it comes with source codes and rooting, im just thinking out loud is all. feel free to correct me.
Well done. The one thing that bugs me about HTC is that they make the hardware not the OS. It’s not like I'm opening the phone to change out chip sets. What I think we need is a well written stock letter that every member of XDA can e-mail by the masses to HTC and T-Mobile demanding them to release the open source code they use in there, so called “everything you” devices.
One person is noisy but a thousand or more is deafening.
what shocked is that this guys actually read and replied your messages. unbelievable, i would have thought they would send you one of those monotone messages like "thanks for contacting us, we appreciate your concern and we will get back to you type bologne "
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I do agree that I was also shocked that they were actually responding to my messages instead of some generic corportate bs. So I do give them Kudos for that.
Well done. The one thing that bugs me about HTC is that they make the hardware not the OS. It’s not like I'm opening the phone to change out chip sets. What I think we need is a well written stock letter that every member of XDA can e-mail by the masses to HTC and T-Mobile demanding them to release the open source code they use in there, so called “everything you” devices.
One person is noisy but a thousand or more is deafening.
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This is kinda what I envisioned for this thread. You could share your experiences with HTC or Tmobile if you have already contacted them and If you haven't hopefully it would prompt you too. I would like them to come out in November and say that that 90% of device complaint calls / emails were from the G2. Unrealistic I know but I can dream.
... Why do people keep bringing up the GPL? AFAIK, Android isn't released under the GPL. It's Apache licensed.
And even for the GPL, there's never been a 'the -instant- you release a product, the source must be there' - it's a 'you have to make the source available' (again, this is GPL, -not- Apache, just pointing out). That can be in the form of punch cards delivered via mule, if they want.
The GPL has many vagueness issues like this (or at least, v2 did, v3 fixed some of it, but who uses v3?).
I'd say HTC's being fairly good about it, in that they release the source at all, given that the Apache license doesn't require it.
I doubt they are withholding it just because they have nothing better to do. If you've ever worked with a large company, I'm sure you're aware of how the easiest tasks can take weeks of paper work and general BS to get done...
While I agree they should have it out a bit quicker, I'm really getting annoyed at all the whining (not necessarily directed at this thread). Most of the complaints are valid, but I wish people would just relax.
Despite the rooting issues, the "hidden" memory, hinge not being as firm as people want, etc...I still am happy with the phone. There's some preinstalled junk, but nothing like practically every other phone on the market. The hardware is nice, and there's already an update despite how new the phone is.
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using Tapatalk
Ditto
Jorsher said:
I doubt they are withholding it just because they have nothing better to do. If you've ever worked with a large company, I'm sure you're aware of how the easiest tasks can take weeks of paper work and general BS to get done...
While I agree they should have it out a bit quicker, I'm really getting annoyed at all the whining (not necessarily directed at this thread). Most of the complaints are valid, but I wish people would just relax.
Despite the rooting issues, the "hidden" memory, hinge not being as firm as people want, etc...I still am happy with the phone. There's some preinstalled junk, but nothing like practically every other phone on the market. The hardware is nice, and there's already an update despite how new the phone is.
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using Tapatalk
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Second that!
shograt said:
... Why do people keep bringing up the GPL? AFAIK, Android isn't released under the GPL. It's Apache licensed.
And even for the GPL, there's never been a 'the -instant- you release a product, the source must be there' - it's a 'you have to make the source available' (again, this is GPL, -not- Apache, just pointing out). That can be in the form of punch cards delivered via mule, if they want.
The GPL has many vagueness issues like this (or at least, v2 did, v3 fixed some of it, but who uses v3?).
I'd say HTC's being fairly good about it, in that they release the source at all, given that the Apache license doesn't require it.
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Your right about android being apache, that's why they can have closed source things like sense. HOWEVER the kernel is infact a moddified linux kernel, which in fact falls under GPLv2. According to the GPL violations angency has stated that they are infact in viaolation.
And simobile glad you started this thread, seems people were more concerned with my grammer the the problem at hand here...
Knock this **** off before HTC stops making quality phones for us because of little ****s like you. Sit back and wait, the phone's only been out a week. Quit ruining it for everyone else.
SuperDave81 said:
Knock this **** off before HTC stops making quality phones for us because of little ****s like you. Sit back and wait, the phone's only been out a week. Quit ruining it for everyone else.
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As someone who gives his hard earned money to HTC, how does he not have the right to ask them whatever he wants? If they don't respond, or blow him off, it'll turn a lot of us off HTC.
He isn't ruining anything other than your little bubble which I'm pretty sure no one else cares about.
One thing about their reply - they said the microSD card was max 16 gb. Whatever happened to the 32gb their other phones can read? Was this an error by customer services?
I know there is quite a few holes in the responses they gave me... 16gb vs 32gb, a bug that tmob and them are working on to fix missing memory? Quite odd indeed. Despite all those things I would urge everyone to send them a message and please post responses here. I'd like this to stay topical and not become a "oh I have a me too trolling comment in my head so let me reply" So please go to the link below and shoot them a message if you have a complaint about all this. The more people that do the better chance we won't have to sit back and wait 90-120 days for this source. It's super simple and they seem to respond pretty quick.
http://www.htc.com/www/about_htc_bymail.aspx
Man people are really butt hurt over everything not being perfect on launch day over this phone. Holy ****...
I mean come on guys. If your biggest problem is a lack of source code and part of the internal memory is supposedly missing then your life really isn't all that bad.
I'd like to think if the worst thing going on in my life is I'm mad at a cell phone then my life is at an all star level compared to most people.
Man people are really butt hurt over everything not being perfect on launch day over this phone. Holy ****...
I mean come on guys. If your biggest problem is a lack of source code and part of the internal memory is supposedly missing then your life really isn't all that bad.
I'd like to think if the worst thing going on in my life is I'm mad at a cell phone then my life is at an all star level compared to most people.
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Congratulations you win a bridge....You can live under it and charge people as they pass over. Jesus Christ your thoughts are so important go ahead and spill them.
Plus you might be interested in my new site
www.XDA-i<3-stockdevices.com
Since that's all the trolls seem interested in.
simobile said:
Congratulations you win a bridge....You can live under it and charge people as they pass over. Jesus Christ your thoughts are so important go ahead and spill them.
Plus you might be interested in my new site
www.XDA-i<3-stockdevices.com
Since that's all the trolls seem interested in.
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Ummm, wtf?
Funny how when a post doesn't adhere to the topic at hand it makes people go WTF? Now ask yourself did your post have anything to do with the topic of this thread? Or anything to do with the want to modify or dev a device?
SuperFly03 said:
Man people are really butt hurt over everything not being perfect on launch day over this phone. Holy ****...
I mean come on guys. If your biggest problem is a lack of source code and part of the internal memory is supposedly missing then your life really isn't all that bad.
I'd like to think if the worst thing going on in my life is I'm mad at a cell phone then my life is at an all star level compared to most people.
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Uhm, I spend $500 on a new phone, and I can't even count on the stupid thing to stay running through the day? Yeah, I'd consider that something to be pissed about. I've owned many HTC devices over the years, and have bought most of them outright in the release week. NEVER have I had one with as many issues as the G2. I took it back today, and told them even if they fix all these issues (screen, memory, random reboots and lockups, and trackpad spazzing out) I doubt I'd pick another one up.
I've got a funny feeling, that some of these issues tie directly into the locking down of rooting on this phone as well... Whether it be technical, or they just wasted all their time locking it down rather than doing some basic Q&A, it's a pretty big issue.
So yeah, I don't advise you coming in here and telling people that it is no big deal that a device that costs as much as a new laptop doesn't work worth ****.
SuperFly03 said:
Ummm, wtf?
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haha, just saw this. WTF are you doing on XDA if you don't want to mod your device?
I've been trolling around XDA for a few months because I've been improving my Evo and I have. When I first bought my phone, the battery lasted about six hours max, worse if I was on the web a lot. Now, the battery now lasts 24 hours and about 16 with consistent usage because I have Set CPU managing things in a custom kernel. It's also running a custom ROM (warm twoPointtwo) and the entire phone generally performs far better than when I first bought it.
My question is, why couldn't HTC/Sprint sell something like this? They wouldn't have had nearly as many complaints about the battery if they'd done a better job managing battery usage. I'm a weekend warrior and I figured out how to improve my phone dramatically in a few months of trolling around XDA's threads. So, why couldn't HTC $hit-hot engineers make the best phone possible taking full advantage of the hardware?
Why all the limits?
Because they're more concerned about the hardware than the software. They knew that the devs would tear it up once it was released, so they [email protected] tried. As long as they got out *something* that worked, they knew, given this is a Linux-based o/s, it would only be a matter of time before people would do their work for them.
Unfortunately, it makes sense.
whats77inaname said:
Because they're more concerned about the hardware than the software. They knew that the devs would tear it up once it was released, so they [email protected] tried. As long as they got out *something* that worked, they knew, given this is a Linux-based o/s, it would only be a matter of time before people would do their work for them.
Unfortunately, it makes sense.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know about all that. You have to keep in mind that this phone wasn't made for devs. It was made to attract a mass audience. Devs make up a fraction of the intended user base, and the majority of people who would buy it have never even heard of rooting or custom roms. They have never heard of a kernel before. These are the people they want to please, and these people rely on HTC to get it right, or they will return the phone.
Manufacturers don't make their phones for people on xda.
whats77inaname said:
Because they're more concerned about the hardware than the software. They knew that the devs would tear it up once it was released, so they [email protected] tried. As long as they got out *something* that worked, they knew, given this is a Linux-based o/s, it would only be a matter of time before people would do their work for them.
Unfortunately, it makes sense.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry but that just isn't true... sounds more like a biased opinion.
Fact is, there are a LOT more people who don't even know what a rooted phones means... there are even more people who don't have/use/want a rooted phone.
I won't act like I know all the reasons why a rooted phone with a custom rom/kernel works SO much better... but I do know they weren't banking on the masses hacking into the phones they make.
In one word time. It takes time to refine software and usually they are struggling to just get it working at all.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
Honestly, the EVO performs pretty well on a stock build. Rooting gives you options yes, but it's not absolutely neccessary like it used to be on WinMo devices.
And yes, I know you didn't root WinMo, but you know what I mean. WinMo had to be unlocked and had a custom ROM flashed, or it was nearly unusuable.
First off, I'm not a developer, I'm a web designer and would've had an iPhone if I were not locked into a Sprint family plan. I totally agree that an unrooted evo is an amazing device, but if I got better battery life, why couldn't HTC with a more improved HTC kernel? Did it just not occur to them? That and defaulting the phone to worst battery settings possible, really? I'm one of those consumers that a few months ago thought a kernel was a rank or food and rooting is something done to plants, let alone something you could adjust.
evo on tapatalk
I just had to spend a few days unrooted due to a hardware problem. Stock 2.2 is MUCH better than stock 2.1 was when the evo first came out. What I would like to see is HTC and the other hardware manufactures hire some of the devs or pay out to incorporate some of their fix's.
I really loved when one of them(dev's I can't remember which one) beat HTC to releasing 2.2 with sense!
whats77inaname said:
Because they're more concerned about the hardware than the software. They knew that the devs would tear it up once it was released, so they [email protected] tried. As long as they got out *something* that worked, they knew, given this is a Linux-based o/s, it would only be a matter of time before people would do their work for them.
Unfortunately, it makes sense.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
[highlight]Mod Edit: No need to be rude to others[/highlight]
Because the concern is to have a solid working device and when the evo launched it was and still is solid most people do not "root" their phone.
As good as custom ROMs are, more often than not they have bugs. With official ROMs a lot of time is spent on testing and are made to have the most reliable experience as possible. They prefer that over a 15% battery/performance improvement or the delay it'd probably add.
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk
All android phones' battery life suck. The hardware is out-tech'ing the battery.
The reason is simple. It's the same thing that goes on at my job. They have non-technical jackasses throwing out hard deadlines for projects they have no clue about how long should take or what's involved in accomplishing. So then the programmers throw together sloppy code to get things working as fast as possible to meet their deadlines so they can keep their jobs. Once things work, they have until the deadline to optimize as much as possible and what they don't get to ends up being "phase 2", or the first update. Of course if the deadline is way too short, the first update ends up being bug fixes instead of much needed optimizations. And then instead of working on those optimizations they have to start writing more sloppy code to meet the next short deadline for the next big project. This is the story of my life.
the evo is sprint's best decision ever made in the history of sprint.
i think they took a gamble and won.
i wouldve never thought such a phone would exist on sprint, and i hope it woke their sleepy eyes into investing more time and money in greater hardware for the future, because WE WILL BUY IT.
TorxT3D said:
the evo is sprint's best decision ever made in the history of sprint.
i think they took a gamble and won.
i wouldve never thought such a phone would exist on sprint, and i hope it woke their sleepy eyes into investing more time and money in greater hardware for the future, because WE WILL BUY IT.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed 100%
They made a good move with the Hero then knocked it out of the park with the EVO.
Obviously there are several teams at work. I'd like to hope HTC will slim down Sense and make better use of the juice And it would be great if Sprint would make all their crap-ware optional or at least uninstallable.
I have an upgrade right now so I hate to admit I'm already eagerly anticipating Sprint's next flagship, I just hope it comes from HTC.
Bottom line to this is that the sprint Kernel does what the masses need not just a few devs on xda or ppcgeeks.
to satisfy people who actually know what this is all about their sales would plummet, and the iphone toy would prevail. its about competition and market share.....period. no one would get a bigger portion of the market share trying to satisfy a miniscule portion of it.
I personally appreciate the miniscule portion of the market because the people in here kick butt and create some awesome things for those of us who dont understand developing.
Thanks XDA!!
jdh10475 said:
edited...
Because the concern is to have a solid working device and when the evo launched it was and still is solid most people do not "root" their phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess I should have explained more clearly. Yes, they released something that works, but they also knew that other people would make it *better*. If you think that there aren't devs from HTC on this site reverse-engineering kernels and what not and incorporating bits and pieces of them into HTC's stock builds for future releases, you need to think again.
if people could make these refinements when they first release things there would never be updates to software, never be updates to hardware and we'd all still be running around with 20lb laptops and zack morris cell phones.
Things need to be in the peoples' hands before refinements could be made. This was the first Wimax phone with the first attempt at HTC building software to make the wimax radio and huge screen as battery efficient as possible.
There is a reason we are on Android 2.2 (2.3 just released) and windows 7...if they released everything perfectly we would never need revisions or updates!
I think the person who mentioned higher ups with no technical knowledge making hard deadlines is right. The kernel in the latest OTA is supposedly pretty good, even by our standards. I've never tried it. I bet the higher ups allotted more time than they initially planned because of the public outcry.
Many industries now follow the release now, patch later mindset. HTC has been like that for as long as I've used their phones. If they were smart they'd be cherry picking the dev community. People deserve better roms and software. My girlfriend loves her phone now that I've rooted it and upgraded it for her.
Of course companies ship not fully optimized and improve later. The choice is between a shipping product with a revenue stream and no product/revenue at all.
It isn't ideal but this is the real world. I can't say I'm the biggest fan of this approach and I do have experience in the area.
Large (and small) projects require X amount of man hours to complete. If the time to deliver X is too long you can either push the timeline out or you can add more skilled staff. If the date is immobile and you can't add staff, the only other option is to deliver a subset of X and enhance down the road.
I personally feel HTC has done a good job with updates and I use cyanogen mod. I prefer the freedom, am well aware of the risks and can probably fix it if I break it.
Most users cannot
Swyped on my PC36100 using tapatalk!
xviiivx said:
The reason is simple. It's the same thing that goes on at my job. They have non-technical jackasses throwing out hard deadlines for projects they have no clue about how long should take or what's involved in accomplishing. So then the programmers throw together sloppy code to get things working as fast as possible to meet their deadlines so they can keep their jobs. Once things work, they have until the deadline to optimize as much as possible and what they don't get to ends up being "phase 2", or the first update. Of course if the deadline is way too short, the first update ends up being bug fixes instead of much needed optimizations. And then instead of working on those optimizations they have to start writing more sloppy code to meet the next short deadline for the next big project. This is the story of my life.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ding! Ding! Ding! Bingo!
Any manufacturing project has a deadline, typically set by some jackass that years ago developed something, typically enforced by some jackass bosses date that years upon years developed something. I've literally been told by my CIO that he built a cable company billing system in a weekend when he was in college, and we should do the same.
People in management positions are not in touch or positions to make proper deadline decisions for engineers. However, engineers are responsible to meet those decisions due to the "due date" given to the engineers. If the engineers had the say, they wouldn't release the product, but the chain of responsibility won't allow that.
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Froyogate/112615255487997
Just started this page, like it if you do. I will update tomorrow. I know it wont do much, but it makes me feel better. If anyone wants to help, PM me here or on Facebook.
Why worry about this when you see things progressing? You're wasting your time, watch development and you will be happier than you would be with stock froyo anyway.
I see things progressing because off our devs, not because of verizon or samsung. I'm tired of big business getting away with anything they want. I get your point, but I'm still trying to get answers.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA Premium App
Quite frankly, no one will care about a Facebook page. Even if everyone on XDA with a Fascinate liked it, it still wouldn't be anywhere near an impressive number.
And Verizon/Samsung haven't really 'lied' to us (not counting their lower level reps, but no one should be trusting them anyways), they've never officially promised any sort of release date AFAIK... meaning long as they eventually release it, they'll have kept their promise (things like 'soon' are totally subjective, which is why they say them).
Verizon/Samsung have, simply put, just given us terrible support. We're low priority for them- we're basically an offbrand (i.e. not a Droid) phone, with a relatively small userbase. We're small fish in a big sea. Taken on top of Verizon & Samsungs already poor support, it really shouldn't be a surprise to us that we're still waiting for Froyo (unfortunately that's a lot easier to realize in retrospect... if I'd realized it back then, I'd have likely gone with the Incredible).
It is so sad that we are considered "not a droid". The one thing that attracted me to my Fascinate was the nice hardware, sweet screen, and the Android OS. I don't know what I would do without the devs around here. It's a shame that we have been swept under the rug by Samsung and VZW.
Sent from my ComaVolted Fascinate running SC 2.9.2
KitsuneKnight said:
Quite frankly, no one will care about a Facebook page. Even if everyone on XDA with a Fascinate liked it, it still wouldn't be anywhere near an impressive number.
And Verizon/Samsung haven't really 'lied' to us (not counting their lower level reps, but no one should be trusting them anyways), they've never officially promised any sort of release date AFAIK... meaning long as they eventually release it, they'll have kept their promise (things like 'soon' are totally subjective, which is why they say them).
Verizon/Samsung have, simply put, just given us terrible support. We're low priority for them- we're basically an offbrand (i.e. not a Droid) phone, with a relatively small userbase. We're small fish in a big sea. Taken on top of Verizon & Samsungs already poor support, it really shouldn't be a surprise to us that we're still waiting for Froyo (unfortunately that's a lot easier to realize in retrospect... if I'd realized it back then, I'd have likely gone with the Incredible).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed, but if we never take any action, the corportations will continue as usual and we will get even less actions. Corporations already run this country. Its not we the people anymore, its whatever corporate america buys in our congress.
Just like it! Is that a lot to ask?
Just vote with your wallet and don't buy samsung phones anymore.
Also, always make it a habite to tell anyone shopping for a phone about how bad samsung is and why they shouldn't buy a samsung phone.
It's amazing how many people are complaining about froyo, yet they get really excited when they hear about the Galaxy S 2 that's coming out soon!!!!
modus81 said:
Just vote with your wallet and don't buy samsung phones anymore.
Also, always make it a habite to tell anyone shopping for a phone about how bad samsung is and why they shouldn't buy a samsung phone.
It's amazing how many people are complaining about froyo, yet they get really excited when they hear about the Galaxy S 2 that's coming out soon!!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I will NEVER buy another samsung phone, Eff the Galaxy S2. It's too bad, the fascinate has some great qualities, but I refuse to give money to someone who doesn't care. I was burnt once, not gonna get me again. I'm debating if I leave Verizon, quite honestly.
I completely agree with you about voting with your wallet!
I will always argue that you should make your decisions based on the hardware. Not the software, not the manufacturer, not the carrier. Hardware will always win out, and Samsung makes great hardware.
Kevin Gossett said:
I will always argue that you should make your decisions based on the hardware. Not the software, not the manufacturer, not the carrier. Hardware will always win out, and Samsung makes great hardware.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I used to say the same thing, based upon past experience with numerous WinMo phones.
I no longer agree. Not in the least. I had a Samsung WinMo, but my last two WinMo phones were HTC. Compared to this Samsung.....
a) The Samsung pulls 300ma max from the PC USB port. That is fine. It only pulls 650ma max from a 5 volt adapter. The phone can consume well over 650ma to operate as a car GPS (screen bright, downloading map data, etc). So, the battery can rather quickly die even plugged into a high rate charger in the car. I have never seen an HTC phone do that. If the operating current goes up, the HTC pulls more current from the charger. Usually up to about 1 amp. So if it is plugged into a high rate charger, the HTC phones will never drain the battery even in the worst conditions. Charge rate FAIL.
b) In total darkness, it is too bright. In bright sun, it is too dim. You can go to manual mode, and adjust to a good level, but that misses the point of having the AUTO sensor... Auto brightness adjust FAIL.
c) On my phone, when used for a long while on charge at high brightness (car again), the four bottom buttons appear to be pressed randomly. The phone becomes a worthless brick. According to Verizon, this is fairly normal for the generated heat and there isn't anything I can do but not use it when it is charging. FAIL button sensor sensitivity. (though I believe this is just my phone being defective, and I can't get it fixed)
d) Charge plug. Who designed that piece of garbage. Pretty much every plug I have, and I have a lot of them, had to be cut up in the front side to allow it to fully seat in the Samsung jack. FAIL plug placement.
e) No notification LED. What??? FAIL.
f) Minor items like the mediocre loudspeaker placement, no camera button, and slippery back cover add up to another FAIL IMHO.
I used to think highly of Samsung devices from my past experience. This device has tarnished that image. I would only recommend this phone to someone because I thought they might want to buy this one that I have.
So, I sent an email to verizon, and this is what I got....
Good afternoon Mr. ****,
Thank you for contacting Verizon Wireless through our website. My name is Nicholas and resolving your issue is my top priority. I sincerely apologize that you are dissatisfied with the new froyo software update not being available for the Samsung Fascinate. I can recognize the importance in having the newest, most sophisticated software when purchasing new equipment. Despite all, I'm eager to assist with all of your concerns today.
Mr. *****, I can understand your urgency in regards to this matter. However, before new software is released, it must be approved by the manufacturer ( Samsung ) and Verizon Wireless. Therefore, based on this process I'm unable to provide a definitive answer as to when the froyo software update will be available for the Fascinate. This information is not readily available for the public. Nonetheless, if or when it becomes available you will receive a text on the handset prompting you to update your phone.
Additionally, based on your inconvenience I've issued a $ 50.00 courtesy credit on the account. The total credit amount of ( $ 50.00) , will appear on your next billing statement, ( Apr. 26, 2011 ), and will include an additional adjustment for taxes if applicable. You can check your revised balance immediately by dialing from you wireless device, # BAL and the SEND button. You will be connected with an automated system which will relay your account balance as a free text message to your wireless phone. You may also continue to listen and follow the voice prompts to receive the information airtime-free. You will be provided with the amount and date of your most recent payment, as well as your current balance due.
Lastly, I am also pleased to offer you the option of obtaining a new device with the software update currently, if it doesn't become available for the Fascinate. This offer will not extend your contract nor upgrade date. If you wish to take advantage of this option, you may contact me directly at ( 803 ) 231 - 1825 / Mon - Fri / 2:30pm. - 11:00pm. For your added convenience, below I've listed a link that includes our available device line - up. I hope you find this information to be beneficial:
So it does pay to continue to fight the good fight! I suggest you ALL email verizon and let them know your unhappy!!!
My old Samsung dumb-phone was wonderful. I took crap care of it, and it took a beating (I'd frequently toss it), I'd never give a single concern for maintaining the battery, it got great signal pretty much everywhere (when I went to the woods with a bunch of people, the people on AT&T would have a paper weight, the other people on Verizon would have occasional signal, and I'd have consistent, albeit poor, signal), and I'd easily go a week on a charge.
Occasionally I'd get hit by a software bug, like once ever several months, but over the several years I had the phone (5+ I think?), those were quite few in number.
My Fascinate, on the other hand, other than the screen the hardware seems moderate at best. The processor/GPU don't matter a lot long as they're at least as good as what 'most people' have, since generally programs are designed to be used on the more common phones. Now the GPU could have been leveraged on Gingerbread, but, we don't really have Gingerbread, although people like PK are working on it.
There's also 'only' 384 MBs of usable RAM in the phone, meaning less apps can be kept asleep in the background, causing apps to have to save their state & be restarted more often (IIRC, all the other Galaxy S phones have 512 usable!).
Then there's the GPS. It was flat out broken when Samsung released this phone, and I still have a horrible GPS- the other day it took ~25 minutes for the GPS to lock (even after downloading AGPS data, and getting the no help that cellular triangulation and wifi location services provides), just in time for us to miss the turn to our destination! (resulting in everyone agreeing that my phone "sucked").
No notification LED... we've had to work around that with 'No LED' and BLN- hardly ideal solutions... more like clever hacks. 802.11N also doesn't support the 5Ghz band, apparently... lovely. The battery life is also nothing to write home about. And there's quite a number of other shortcomings with this phone's hardware.
Is the Fascinate's hardware horrible? No, with the exception of the screen (which is quite good), most of it's around par, some above, some below. But the Fascinate's problem is it's crippled by horrible software! Our Devs will fix that, you say? So how's that CM7 working for you? MIUI? AOSP? Your options, at this point, are either use a hacked up Samsung ROM, or lose various hardware support. Is it because our devs suck? Hell no, they've long since shown they're damn good at what they do- but even so they can only do so much at a time. Take the best hardware in the world, but put **** software on it, and you've got ****. Bad software will ruin any hardware.
Good software on bad hardware, though, can at least make the hardware bearable. Next time, I'm picking my phone based off which actually has a fully custom ROMs ported to it, like MIUI or CyanogenMod- that should be a good indicator of how good the software support should be- then I'll go by hardware.
Edit: New post while I was writing... Does "obtaining a new device" mean, "trade in for a phone with Froyo"? If so... that's quite surprising, and it'd be interesting exactly what phones are available for that. Although, at this point, I just feel like taking it until my renewal comes around- all the phones are going to be far superior by then, and, with any luck, this sort of BS will have been reined in by Google.
Im going to call tomorrow and see what that means....but its a start. 50 bucks off my bill is nice!
modus81 said:
Just vote with your wallet and don't buy samsung phones anymore.
Also, always make it a habite to tell anyone shopping for a phone about how bad samsung is and why they shouldn't buy a samsung phone.
It's amazing how many people are complaining about froyo, yet they get really excited when they hear about the Galaxy S 2 that's coming out soon!!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
but look at the specs on the galaxy S2, at least here in america its gonna have the samsung Exynos chip that is a 1.2 Ghz Dual Core, 1 GB of RAM a super AMOLED+ screen and does FULL HD VIDEO </Sarcasm>
sounds nice but knowing samsung it won't receive any support i've only had this phone since thursday and i really, really don't like it and wish that even with the locked bootloader i had gone with the droid X simply because i'd like to have gingerbread instead of eclair, though putting the miui alpha on it sorta make the fascinate worth while
420fan said:
So, I sent an email to verizon, and this is what I got....
Good afternoon Mr. ****,
Thank you for contacting Verizon Wireless through our website. My name is Nicholas and resolving your issue is my top priority. I sincerely apologize that you are dissatisfied with the new froyo software update not being available for the Samsung Fascinate. I can recognize the importance in having the newest, most sophisticated software when purchasing new equipment. Despite all, I'm eager to assist with all of your concerns today.
Mr. *****, I can understand your urgency in regards to this matter. However, before new software is released, it must be approved by the manufacturer ( Samsung ) and Verizon Wireless. Therefore, based on this process I'm unable to provide a definitive answer as to when the froyo software update will be available for the Fascinate. This information is not readily available for the public. Nonetheless, if or when it becomes available you will receive a text on the handset prompting you to update your phone.
Additionally, based on your inconvenience I've issued a $ 50.00 courtesy credit on the account. The total credit amount of ( $ 50.00) , will appear on your next billing statement, ( Apr. 26, 2011 ), and will include an additional adjustment for taxes if applicable. You can check your revised balance immediately by dialing from you wireless device, # BAL and the SEND button. You will be connected with an automated system which will relay your account balance as a free text message to your wireless phone. You may also continue to listen and follow the voice prompts to receive the information airtime-free. You will be provided with the amount and date of your most recent payment, as well as your current balance due.
Lastly, I am also pleased to offer you the option of obtaining a new device with the software update currently, if it doesn't become available for the Fascinate. This offer will not extend your contract nor upgrade date. If you wish to take advantage of this option, you may contact me directly at ( 803 ) 231 - 1825 / Mon - Fri / 2:30pm. - 11:00pm. For your added convenience, below I've listed a link that includes our available device line - up. I hope you find this information to be beneficial:
So it does pay to continue to fight the good fight! I suggest you ALL email verizon and let them know your unhappy!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you dont mind me asking, what all was in your email? It may be beneficial to know the way you went about contacting them if there are those (like myself wishing to get a tbolt lol) that want to go this route. Also what email address did you send the complaint to?
Neuman.Tim said:
If you dont mind me asking, what all was in your email? It may be beneficial to know the way you went about contacting them if there are those (like myself wishing to get a tbolt lol) that want to go this route. Also what email address did you send the complaint to?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yea, I emailed and they called me back. They offered to give me a new phone line instead... I would also have to pay for another phone... Bogus... What did you tell them?
I've looked for the email on yhier website and all and I can't find it. Anyone got a quick link to it?
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA Premium App
http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/contact/index.jsp
is the page I used.
Email I sent
Why am I still waiting for my fascinate to be updated to froyo? All the other galaxy S phones have received it, Samsung has given you the code, now I am curious as to why we still don't have it. I was told when I purchased the phone that it would be 'soon'. I did a lot of research and am tired of being lied to by your company. Your contract states that I can't lie to you, but your are not held responsible for what an agent tells me. WTF is that?? You will probably loose my business when my contract is up, and maybe even before if I can sell this phone. Why won't you take care of your existing customers? Too busy trying to sell 4G when its not even in my area. I was told 'soon' about that too! I understand that the email I will get will say Im sorry for the delay, but we are working hard at it....BLAH BLAH BLAH!!!!
420fan said:
I see things progressing because off our devs, not because of verizon or samsung. I'm tired of big business getting away with anything they want. I get your point, but I'm still trying to get answers.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm afraid I have to disagree with you. While it's very true that our devs are to be applauded for their efforts, the very reason that we have working Froyo roms like SuperClean (aside from jt's AOSP, which still is lacking a few features) is because of leaked builds from Samsung/Verizon. Our devs did not make those, only released them and cleaned them up a bit. We have three leaked builds total now, so there is no longer any basis upon which to claim that the official update will not be released. They would not be putting that much work into builds for this phone if they did not intend to release it once it's complete. Also, I think we should be grateful that they are taking the time to properly fix issues like GPS, which the new radio does, instead of rushing a new release with more bugs.
I too am disappointed at the time it's taking for them to get this release out, but it is clearly coming, and soon, if the last leak is any evidence at all, so I think we all just need to remain patient for a little bit longer. However, I do have one question. We have had working Froyo roms here for quite some time now. If you're posting here on XDA, I can only assume you're interested in modifying your phone, as opposed to leaving it stock, since that is, after all, what XDA is all about. If that is true, why are you still complaining about the lack of official release? Just install SuperClean or your rom of choice and move on.
Sent from XDA Premium on my Super Clean Fascinate