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Hi everyone,
I am about to buy my first PDA/phone, and the choice boils down to either the E-ten X500 or the HTC P3600.
The E-ten has got the lead where GPS is concerned thanks to SIRFIII but the 3600 has UMTS/HSDPA...
I have read as much as I could on the Qualcomm chip that is used in the P3600 and since the GPS feature is very important to me, I'm worried that the P3600 is not the way to go.
I would therefore like to ask your findings in the GPS usage, not only in Time Till First Fix (although ofcourse very important), but also in keeping the fix, re-acquiring a lost signal, etc...
Have a S300+ (french vodafone version) with the original ROM and Radio version and for me it's less than a minute.
Hi,
TTFF is impossible under 30 sec (except A-GPS), 30 secs is the minimum to acquire ephemeride in good conditions.
If you are searching the best sensitivity, sure, take the ETEN (sirf III) !
But, with my french Renault Clio and its athermic heat shield, no big issues, no delay over than 10 meters, even in city, hot start less than 5sec (tunnel exit).
So really happy, it's nearly like a BT antenna (in same conditions)...
I will post tomorrow some pics showing differences between radio 1.38.00.11 and 1.41.00.11 on the same route, there is no changes in quality so all people can upgrade to 1.41.0.11 (for the gps part)
hi I have a P3600 and a separate Rikaline 6033 BT GPS. "the only 32 Parallel Channel GPS receiver in the world - Uses the latest Fujitsu Japanese chipset giving excellent precision
- Superior than the Sirf III Chipset with greater sensitivity and lower power consumption"
I can say (marketing blurb aside!) the Rikaline is a superb device, and the P3600 is almost identical.
It finds a fix very quickly from cold (unless in a moving car) and the sensitivity of the P3600 seems to be nigh on identical to the Rikaline BT device. I did own another BT GPS for a short period of time - but found the sensitivity poor so returned it for the Rikaline.
I have to say the P3600 is a great solution. My only gripe is to do with the poor Voda 3G coverage in the UK.
I would say that phone reception is slightly better on my M600 - but that's going on number of bars in the signal strength....
Please put the full name: "Time To First Fix" I guess in addition to the abbreviation (TTFF) in your vote
It can be : Trinidad and Tobago Football Federation or something esle
We are in a PDA dedicated forum... and not every body is suited to understand such GPS abbreviations
Cyrus Kourosh said:
Please put the full name: "Time To First Fix" I guess in addition to the abbreviation (TTFF) in your vote
It can be : Trinidad and Tobago Football Federation or something esle
We are in a PDA dedicated forum... and not every body is suited to understand such GPS abbreviations
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
post edited... Dunno if I can change the poll though....
sickboy555 said:
hi I have a P3600 and a separate Rikaline 6033 BT GPS. "the only 32 Parallel Channel GPS receiver in the world - Uses the latest Fujitsu Japanese chipset giving excellent precision
- Superior than the Sirf III Chipset with greater sensitivity and lower power consumption"
I can say (marketing blurb aside!) the Rikaline is a superb device, and the P3600 is almost identical.
It finds a fix very quickly from cold (unless in a moving car) and the sensitivity of the P3600 seems to be nigh on identical to the Rikaline BT device. I did own another BT GPS for a short period of time - but found the sensitivity poor so returned it for the Rikaline.
I have to say the P3600 is a great solution. My only gripe is to do with the poor Voda 3G coverage in the UK.
I would say that phone reception is slightly better on my M600 - but that's going on number of bars in the signal strength....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thx for the great info!
Can anyone back this up?
The reason I ask is that it is generally accepted that SirfIII is better than the Qualcom, and from a technical standpoint I can understand and accept this. However, if usage on a day to day basis shows equal or near-equal performance, I could care less about reputation and would go for the P3600
Hell, some might argue that if the Qualcom gets the job done with less sattellites, it's actually a better solution for it
On the other hand, I already put an offer in on a used X500 and can't seem to find any decent priced used P3600's where I live, so that might end up being the deciding factor anyway. But still, if the GPS is fine and I do get a chance to purchase a used one, I won't hesitate
If it can help :
Cyrus Kourosh said:
Here is the test of the HTC P3600 GPS (Qualcomm gpsONE chipset) compared to SiRFstar III GPS chipset based devices
made by www.gpspassion.com
--> English version
--> French version
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Cyrus Kourosh said:
If it can help :
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I disagree with this test !
Got the S300+ SFR, and it works like a charm !
Depend of the radio version etc...
I already saw that one but thanx anyway
Actually, that was the review which caused me to start doubting the P3600 as far as GPS is concerned
The problem is that the only thing that is translated into real-world usage in this review is the slow Time Till First Fix they mention (though this is not reflected by the poll here I must say...Maybe thanks to the radio updates in the meantime...).
It does not really answer my questions on how GPS usage is affected on a daily basis.
Ok, there is deviance from a set route and you can witness that on the tracks they map, but how does this translate into the real world?
Does it point you in the wrong direction a lot?
Is it slow in giving you the right directions because of a more latent signal?
Does it lose its signal a lot?
Does it not reconnect quickly after connection is lost (tunnels and such)?
From what I'm seeing here on the forum (or from what I am not seeing actually: complaints ) this GPS seems to perform just fine so what is the relevance of the findings of the gpspassion comparison?
I'm not questionning these guys' work though, they seem particularly tech-savvy when it comes to GPS and I appreciate what they do.
But I'm starting to wonder in how far the SirfIII is actually any better.
I just set an appointment to pick up the X500 this weekend though, so if you guys are going to stop me from buying it, the window of opportunity is fading
I don't doubt that the X500 has better GPS but I'll never own an ETEN product again. Go with HTC.
Argh....we've been down this road a lot on this board already....
There's no actual winner here... I've used both a BT GPS mouse and now the Qualcomm in Trinity, and i can tell you there's no notable difference in the normal usage scenario's...
But hell...if you wanna start a chronometer everytime you fire up the nav, go right ahead Does it make you feel better if either one turns out to be just 5 seconds faster than the other ?
The P3600 is just as excellent (if not better) in keeping the fix and reacquiring it, it's got HSDPA/UMTS, it's already got WM6 by now, and just looks freakin' good as opposed to the freakin' ugly E-Ten...
Am I biased ? Hell no....
DisTreSs said:
I already saw that one but thanx anyway
Actually, that was the review which caused me to start doubting the P3600 as far as GPS is concerned
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Looking at that review it appears they tested it in an 'urban canyon' - city with lots of tall buildings type scenario. In that environment it is no surprise that the SIRF3 outperformed the Qualcomm chipset.
So whether or not it will work for you depends what the environment is like that you'll be using it in. If you are spending a lot of time in a city with lots of tall buildings and short streets (ie you'll be turning a lot) then maybe a SIRF3 based device is for you. But if you spend most of your time in the suburbs or open space then don't worry, the difference will be negligible.
DisTreSs said:
Does it point you in the wrong direction a lot?
Is it slow in giving you the right directions because of a more latent signal?
Does it lose its signal a lot?
Does it not reconnect quickly after connection is lost (tunnels and such)?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My answers to your question would be no, no, no and no...
Having used both a SIRF3 BT GPS module and the internal GPS on the Trinity I would say there is absolutely no difference in performance in the environment I use it in, which is mostly suburban driving with occasional trips into the city.
Also TTFF I found was negligible between the 2 - cold time was ~3mins on both, warm < 30s on both.
Only real difference I noticed was that inside my house I can get a fix on the SIRF3 in most places, with the Trinity internal GPS I can only get a within fix 1 - 2m from a window. But since I don't have much use for the GPS inside this is kinda irrelevant!
DisTreSs said:
....
Does it point you in the wrong direction a lot?
Is it slow in giving you the right directions because of a more latent signal?
Does it lose its signal a lot?
Does it not reconnect quickly after connection is lost (tunnels and such)?
...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hello:
my answers are NO, NO, NO and NO.
I get a faster fix when I'm not moving but it is always under 2 minutes (always with TT6).
The whole "fix-discussion" depends on where the satelites actually are and how many of them are "available" in the sky...
I did not recognize any differance between the radio roms for the GPS...
Antzzz said:
...
Only real difference I noticed was that inside my house I can get a fix on the SIRF3 in most places, with the Trinity internal GPS I can only get a within fix 1 - 2m from a window. But since I don't have much use for the GPS inside this is kinda irrelevant!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good point....
DisTreSs said:
Does it point you in the wrong direction a lot?
Is it slow in giving you the right directions because of a more latent signal?
Does it lose its signal a lot?
Does it not reconnect quickly after connection is lost (tunnels and such)?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No at all... (No signal lost, No wrong direction, No slow redirection, No slow reconnection ...)
For me, It is my first GPS... I never had one before, so I can not compare.
However, this GPS does not have such problems.... and works really perfect for classical/personal use.
I am using it extensively for months, and It fits all my needs and expectations.
Also, I do not have any experience with Eten.
But for me... the HTC Trinity is the best and the most complete communicating PDA never constructed
Now we're getting somewhere!
Thanks all for your great replies!!! Keep 'em comming
I'm starting to think about cancelling the X500 now damnit
Just when I thought I had it all figured out....
Antzzz said:
Only real difference I noticed was that inside my house I can get a fix on the SIRF3 in most places, with the Trinity internal GPS I can only get a within fix 1 - 2m from a window. But since I don't have much use for the GPS inside this is kinda irrelevant!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Except when you are drunk, it very useful to find the way to your bedroom Looooll
Yes and you wouldn't want to get stuck in the hallway for 10 minutes waiting to get a fix
DisTreSs said:
Yes and you wouldn't want to get stuck in the hallway for 10 minutes waiting to get a fix
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Click to collapse
The main problem for the GPS in this situation is to always show you the right direction while the world is turning, turning, turning....
I've written up a full review of the GPS:
http://briefmobile.com/samsung-epic-4g-gps-test
YouTube Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7PBst2OBCw&feature=player_embedded
I tested the GPS with Google Navigation, Maps, and My Tracks applications.
Observations overall:
- Accuracy was slightly off (as shown by My Tracks... worked perfectly in Google Navigation)
- Worked reliably over hours of navigating to and from destinations --- NEVER lost my car
- Compass seems off in My Tracks, shows correctly in Google Navigation
Check out my article for more details. Overall... thumbs up. GPS works well. Always worked with navigation perfectly.
Glad to see it works but still concerned about the lack of accuracy. The Evo my wife has seems to have a much more accurate lock than what was shown in the video.
kennethpenn said:
I've written up a full review of the GPS:
http://briefmobile.com/samsung-epic-4g-gps-test
YouTube Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7PBst2OBCw&feature=player_embedded
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1) Thanks for this test. So far I see no results that would appear to be a hard stop. But in the other thread, you mentioned that your Epic GPS accuracy was not as good as your G1. So I am still concerned. I think performance on this new, expensive, high-end Android should be at least as good as the performance of the oldest Android model.
Also, driving is the least demanding test of the low-level GPS, and there are many applications for it besides vehicular navigation. On other Galaxy S platforms, the GPS tracks seem to get smoothed or interpolated, which in driving tests seems okay most of the time because the motion of the vehicle ovewhelms the underlying errrors in the smoothing algorithm. The result is that the GPS seems great while moving pretty straight, but can veer off-course on turns, corners and stops. You did mention similar symptoms. (And then navigation programs mask errors further by snap-to behavior layered onto the smoothed GPS output.)
I know it must seem that I am never satisfied, but I am always interested in more rigorous testing. Often a better My Tracks test is over a walking course, preferably along with a benchmark device such as the G1. And the whole track -- not just isolated snapshots -- then can be shared with us via upload to Google.
For example, look at my own tests of the Vibrant vs G1 here.
(If you are worried about your own privacy, just test in some location other than your home. I went to an apartment complex in my neighborhood.)
2) Another set of GPS-bug symptoms reported on other Galaxy S platforms is the failure to use and lock on to enough satellites. That is best seen not through tracking or navigation apps, but by utilities that read and report the detailed performance of the GPS from the Android system. The two most popular utilities for this testing are GPS Test and GPS Status. Among other things, they will tell you how many satellites the GPS thinks it sees, their signal strength as SNR, and how many are actually being used for a fix. Could you try those utilites and report the results?
3) You haven't told us exactly how your test unit came into your hands. But we do know from other intelligence that at least some pre-sales demo units were selectively shipped before the latest Samsung software was installed. So it is useful to know the build date of your unit, as shown by internal file date stamps. (Perhaps this can clear up some confusion about other reported tests.)
4) From the latest build dumps we have seen, it appears that the Epic -- uniquely among Samsung S variants -- has a system utility called GpsSetup. Can you see any evidence that this utility is installed on your unit? If so, what does it do? Are there configurable settings? If so, what are the default settings, and what settings are you using?
Thanks again for your work.
Regarding the compass ...
From the review:
My Tracks Observations:
... Compass pointer totally off. ...
Google Navigation Observations:
... Compass points the right way.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think this simply means that the compass sensor -- and/or the low-level software that drives it -- remain bad on the tested Epic unit. In My Tracks, the compass is driven by the on-board magnetometer of the phone and is supposed to move when the phone's physical orientation changes. In Google Navigation, the compass is fixed relative to the maps streamed from the app's servers.
The FUBAR compass on Samsung S phones is sort of related to the GPS bugs, because some apps read both sensors. So users often perceive them as the same problem. But they are two separate issues.
Looks like it's the defective compass spoils the accuracy.
I know it's not going to prove much, but here is a video with another user saying the GPS is fine on the Epic:
http://androidandme.com/2010/08/news/sprint-epic-4g-qa-part-1/
6 minutes in.
It's also a good video worth watching if you'd just like to see the phone in action some more. I'll post this in the reviews thread as well I suppose.
hydralisk said:
I know it's not going to prove much, but here is a video with another user saying the GPS is fine on the Epic:
http://androidandme.com/2010/08/news/sprint-epic-4g-qa-part-1/
6 minutes in.
It's also a good video worth watching if you'd just like to see the phone in action some more. I'll post this in the reviews thread as well I suppose.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
With the correct gps settings no sgs phone has issues standing still. You wont see anything wrong with the gps until you use it while driving. Everyone with a sgs phone should know this. If I had a sgs phone & a epic the first thing I would do would test the gps while driving and post a video. I think its weird how no one will do this. I am getting a epic first thing tues am and will post video of speed of the epic vs sgs phone with lag fix, gps test while driving & video\pic quality. Since these are the main things in question.
shep211 said:
With the correct gps settings no sgs phone has issues standing still. You wont see anything wrong with the gps until you use it while driving. Everyone with a sgs phone should know this. If I had a sgs phone & a epic the first thing I would do would test the gps while driving and post a video..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, in my experience the opposite tends to be true about SGS phones. Driving tests tend to obscure the accuracy problems. Standing still and walking tracks are tougher tests of accuracy. And videos are not as detailed as actual My Tracks output uploaded to Google, where we can all zoom in an explore ther results in detail on a map or satellite background. Some problems that can show up driving are the cases where the GPS track veers off-road on turns and stops.
I have seen plenty of driving "reviews" and "tests" of the GPS in other variants of the phone that erroneously report everything is fine (which is why I still take the OP's results with a grain of salt, no offense). My own testing with Vibrants showed relatively decent tracking while driving, but very poor accuracy when stopped or moving as a pedestrian.
EDIT: I finally found and watched the newly linked Youtube video here, and was totally unimpressed by this reviewer. He was cluelessly misinformed about the status of the GPS problems on other platforms, and his andecdotal report of using the GPS on the Epic through Google Navigate app proved nothing at all.
BTW, for a good summary of the GPS problems on Samsung Galaxy S phones generally, see this post at the international I9000 forum. These issues are much more complex than superficial reviews engage.
boomerbubba said:
Actually, in my experience the opposite tends to be true about SGS phones. Driving tests tend to obscure the accuracy problems. Standing still and walking tracks are tougher tests of accuracy. And videos are not as detailed as actual My Tracks output uploaded to Google, where we can all zoom in an explore ther results in detail on a map or satellite background. Some problems that can show up driving are the cases where the GPS track veers off-road on turns and stops.
I have seen plenty of driving "reviews" and "tests" of the GPS in other variants of the phone that erroneously report everything is fine (which is why I still take the OP's results with a grain of salt, no offense). My own testing with Vibrants showed relatively decent tracking while driving, but very poor accuracy when stopped or moving as a pedestrian.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I understand what you are saying. Going over 60 mph the gps performs better then when going slow and making turns or tracking a run. But standing still I have never had it not lock and work. The only videos of the epic are of standing still lock times.
shep211 said:
I understand what you are saying. Going over 60 mph the gps performs better then when going slow and making turns or tracking a run. But standing still I have never had it not lock and work. The only videos of the epic are of standing still lock times.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not talking about an apparent locking problem. I'm talking about the other symptom of the GPS bug: lack of accuracy.
There are many reports -- and I have experienced this myself on Vibrants -- where the satellite signal appears to lock. But the accuracy of the lat/lon coordinates being reported is all over the place. And they can be outside the theoretical range of accuracy being reported. For example, GPS Test or GPS Status --reading the ouptut of the Android listeners, which in turn are reading the onboard GPS chip -- may say the fix is supposed to bee accurate within 20 feet. But the coordinates are a couple hundred feet away from the actual location, and meandering over time.
boomerbubba said:
Actually, in my experience the opposite tends to be true about SGS phones. Driving tests tend to obscure the accuracy problems.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with this. Driving programs "snap" to streets obscuring lateral positioning inaccuracy.
boomerbubba said:
EDIT: I finally found and watched the newly linked Youtube video here, and was totally unimpressed by this reviewer. He was cluelessly misinformed about the status of the GPS problems on other platforms, and his andecdotal report of using the GPS on the Epic through Google Navigate app proved nothing at all.
BTW, for a good summary of the GPS problems on Samsung Galaxy S phones generally, see this post at the international I9000 forum. These issues are much more complex than superficial reviews engage.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I absolutely agree. Where are the important tests????:
TTFF (time to first fix) from RTN (factory start) with several different devices, eg touch Pro 2, Evo, etc in same location.
TTFF from cold, warm and hot starts with competing models in same place. IE how well is assistance and cache working
Number of birds and SNR, ie how good is actual autonomous gps hardware "
HDOP, VDOP PDOP ""
I am seeing multiple poorly done youtubes that could easily be tower triangulation which under good conditions will get you >30' standing still but blow once you start moving. These guys are not just not reporting SNR, they are not even reporting number of sats and HDOP!
The ops tests (and thank you) are not too bad, but there is no data. For example he says: "Also, the GPS occasionally took more than 10 seconds to “lock on” with a cold start." That is the average for top smartphones for an actual cold start. a cold start is no current Ephemeris or almanac stored. starting up a data connection and pulling assistance data (almanac and ephemeris) of visible birds is a agps "cold start" and typically takes at least ten seconds (a few minutes in standalone gps)./
New '98 feet' bug on Epic GPS
Now that the Epic is out, we are starting to see the usual confusing mix of anecdotal impressions of GPS performance.
Over on another forum, one interesting fact is emerging: There seems to be a new bug, unique to the Epic's implementation of GPS: The imputed accuracy is being reported by several different testers in different scenarios, always at 98 feet! It is as if this number is hard-coded into the GPS firmware.
See Testing the GPS Satellite usage on your new Epic, the right way. Have "use wireless networks" off and Epic GPS - does yours work or not?
boomerbubba said:
Now that the Epic is out, we are starting to see the usual confusing mix of anecdotal impressions of GPS performance.
Over on another forum, one interesting fact is emerging: There seems to be a new bug, unique to the Epic's implementation of GPS: The imputed accuracy is being reported by several different testers in different scenarious, always at 98 feet! It is as if this number is hard-coded into the GPS firmware.
See Testing the GPS Satellite usage on your new Epic, the right way. Have "use wireless networks" off and Epic GPS - does yours work or not?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The gps has most of the same issues the others have but the epic doesn't lag when it does work.
Some gps videos I made while working Tuesday. Epic gps worked 1\3.
epic gps fail 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7HUQAKg6Lc
epic gps fail 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UV1Na51Dy5A
A 'known issue' with Epic GPS?
FYI, a user on another forum is reporting that Sprint tech support acknowledged a "known issue" with the GPS.
boomerbubba said:
FYI, a user on another forum is reporting that Sprint tech support acknowledged a "known issue" with the GPS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for the link. I have had the same issue where it wont lock and takes over 5 mins then when it does lock it takes 3-5 mins for it to get your correct location. It looks like the only thing they improved was agps but gps still needs the new driver coming out in September. I really hope Samsung fixes the gps issues.
boomerbubba said:
Now that the Epic is out, we are starting to see the usual confusing mix of anecdotal impressions of GPS performance.
Over on another forum, one interesting fact is emerging: There seems to be a new bug, unique to the Epic's implementation of GPS: The imputed accuracy is being reported by several different testers in different scenarios, always at 98 feet! It is as if this number is hard-coded into the GPS firmware.
See Testing the GPS Satellite usage on your new Epic, the right way. Have "use wireless networks" off and Epic GPS - does yours work or not?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I went into my local sprint store that had 2 epics on display with my wife. We were there to decide if they're worth almost $800(waiting for price drop). So I loaded gps status on both demo epics, accuracy 98ft, they also displayed 1-2 less sats than my g1 which had @20-60ft accuracy sitting on the counter 10" lower and directly between the epics. I know this is a static test and doesn't mean much, when I asked the sales people if I could drive around....just kidding.
I talked to a sprint district manager at work today and he confirmed the epics have a gps issue and button issue.. He said a fix is coming out for the gps issue, but the buttton issue is only on some first batch of epics and to take mine back..
kgold708 said:
I went into my local sprint store that had 2 epics on display with my wife. We were there to decide if they're worth almost $800(waiting for price drop). So I loaded gps status on both demo epics, accuracy 98ft, they also displayed 1-2 less sats than my g1 which had @20-60ft accuracy sitting on the counter 10" lower and directly between the epics. I know this is a static test and doesn't mean much, when I asked the sales people if I could drive around....just kidding.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yet another confrirmation of the new '98 feet' bug!
kgold708 said:
I went into my local sprint store that had 2 epics on display with my wife. We were there to decide if they're worth almost $800(waiting for price drop). So I loaded gps status on both demo epics, accuracy 98ft, they also displayed 1-2 less sats than my g1 which had @20-60ft accuracy sitting on the counter 10" lower and directly between the epics. I know this is a static test and doesn't mean much, when I asked the sales people if I could drive around....just kidding.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I got my captivate for $50 from amazon. Im sure the epic will drop to $50-100 with in 1 month on amazon. Its at $200 now with free activation.
http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Epic-..._1_4?ie=UTF8&s=wireless&qid=1283358779&sr=8-4
What I am finding is poor Signal to Noise, on average about 10db lower on average for the same birds than Touch Pro2 and Treo Pro are showing while keeping them all in the same spot. For example one satellite is showing me as very healthy 41 on Treo Pro (HTC made Palm), 39 on Touch Pro 2, and same bird is 27 on Epic. It also seems to jump to usage of some of the really bad snr birds.
I am also wondering about what is going on with trigger of almanac and ephemeris population over 3g. I am getting inconsistent results on that.
There is a third problem which is that with 4 >17 SNR birds in view, which should be adequate and give hdop of <2, position still seems to jump and be incorrect by an average of 30' to 60'
Can anyone tell me what your SNR values are? best would be compared to other known good gps smartphones in same location.
Do these things have a gps issue? I just came from an Evo, and gps reception on these sucks compared to Evo.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
herzzreh said:
Do these things have a gps issue? I just came from an Evo, and gps reception on these sucks compared to Evo.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Bwahahahaha!! The answer to your question is that all the Galaxy S variants have GPS issues!
Some people claim they have trouble
On my epic google maps takes a long time to lock
But on google navigator and sprint navteq it locks on no more than 20 seconds it usually locks on in 5 to 10 seconds
What's weird ,is that to use google navigator. You have to use google maps to get to google navigator
Open google maps type place or address then hit drive directions then it switches on to google navigator then instantly gps locks on
If you just open google maps and turn the gps on and hit my location the gps takes a while to lock....but not when u start google nav.
I have no problem since when i use google maps, I never use my location.
I look up address and for driving directions via google navigator.
The problem with the GPS is that the cache doesn't update unless you reboot the phone. The longer the phone has been on the worse it gets. If you follow the instructions below it cause the GPS to update the cache over 3G whenever you fire up a GPS App. It only takes a few seconds to do this and then you get a fast lock after that. The only problem is if you are in an area with no signal and try to use the GPS. If that is going to be the case then follow the instructions again and change it to Warm Boot. Here are the instructions:
Enter GPS debug/settings application by typing *#1472365#
click "Setup" tab
click "position mode"
Click "starting mode
Enable "Cold Start"
Back out.
Ah... well, my problem wasn't the lock-on. That was normal. It's the accuracy and ability to hold signal. Again, comparing it to the Evo... this phone had that huge circle of inaccuracy while driving and Evo did not at the same time. Slightest obstruction and this would lose the signal while the other phone would not. Very frustrating.
herzzreh said:
Ah... well, my problem wasn't the lock-on. That was normal. It's the accuracy and ability to hold signal. Again, comparing it to the Evo... this phone had that huge circle of inaccuracy while driving and Evo did not at the same time. Slightest obstruction and this would lose the signal while the other phone would not. Very frustrating.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
for lockon issues, which due to a bug in the cache system and will affect all users who don't cycle the phones cache, use the cold start as indicated above.
For accuracy issues it is important to remember to make sure to leave "use wireless networking" off.
aero1 said:
for lockon issues, which due to a bug in the cache system and will affect all users who don't cycle the phones cache, use the cold start as indicated above.
For accuracy issues it is important to remember to make sure to leave "use wireless networking" off.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I thought we were supposed to leave that on.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk
acegolfer said:
I thought we were supposed to leave that on.
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That advice is disinformation from Sprint customer service. They are trying to cover up the fact that the GPS has problems, so they advise users to enable the non-GPS location by cell towers, which is not as accurate.
aero1 said:
For accuracy issues it is important to remember to make sure to leave "use wireless networking" off.
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I tried that, still not too accurate compared to the other phone. What I noticed is that it IS accurate right after a hard reset, but then half an hour later it goes back to showing the circle.
herzzreh said:
I tried that, still not too accurate compared to the other phone. What I noticed is that it IS accurate right after a hard reset, but then half an hour later it goes back to showing the circle.
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Click to collapse
All the Galaxy S variants have a problem with SNR. Basically, the antenna has issues getting a strong GPS signal and some are worse then others; some can't even achieve a lock! Low signal = bad accuracy....
As for a fix, I'm not sure if Samsung can really fix it, if it's a design issue. On the Galaxy Forum, there was a guy that said it was possible to fix a low signal hardware flaw with software. Me, I'm highly doubtful it can be done where a Galaxy S GPS will ever be as good as the other Android phones currently on the market. I think they will eventually get it to the point where Nav will work most of the time, but not to where others are using there Android phones for Geo caching.
Didn't they fix it on fascinate?
sent from my epic 4g with no 4g
churro7 said:
Didn't they fix it on fascinate?
sent from my epic 4g with no 4g
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Nope... Just do a search on the Fascinate forum and you'll find it's got GPS problems too.
Rogers in Canada said their version of the Galaxy S (Captivate) will have the GPS fixed, but we'll know when it hits the market in a few days. It might take a couple weeks before we start seeing the reports roll in.... If they truly have a Galaxy S phone with a working GPS, I'd like to see the mainboard. If it's the same as other versions of the Galaxy S, then maybe they were able to fix it with software. If it's a hardware design change .... Well, then the rest of the Galaxy S owners may be SOL.
GPS on Epic = Epic FAIL
Shame on Samsung for releasing the Epic with a half assed implementation of a GPS.
It is just one of those "what were they thinking" situations.
I mean didn t they release a patch
sent from my epic 4g with no 4g
crabjoe said:
Nope... Just do a search on the Fascinate forum and you'll find it's got GPS problems too.
Rogers in Canada said their version of the Galaxy S (Captivate) will have the GPS fixed, but we'll know when it hits the market in a few days. It might take a couple weeks before we start seeing the reports roll in.... If they truly have a Galaxy S phone with a working GPS, I'd like to see the mainboard. If it's the same as other versions of the Galaxy S, then maybe they were able to fix it with software. If it's a hardware design change .... Well, then the rest of the Galaxy S owners may be SOL.
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The GSM versions of the Galaxy S, which includes the Captivate, Vibrant and International I9000, have one GPS chip -- the relatively new Broadcom BCM4751. The CDMA versions, the Epic and the Fascinate , use another -- the multipurpose Qualcomm QSC6085 radio that has been in use for three years. As far as the GPS is concerned, these are really two different devices: Different hardware. Different firmware. Different bugs. Different symptoms. (I have owned Vibrants and an Epic, and have tested the GPS rigorously on both. They behave very differently. The GPS bugs on the Epic are unique to the Epic as far as I know, although it is difficult to tell about the Fascinate from anecdotal reports and Verizon slapped a confusing user interface on the settings for location services and GPS.)
The only thing the two general designs have in common is general incompetence. Samsung managed to foul up two different GPS designs in two different ways.
But it is folly to try to make inferential comparisons between the two types.
churro7 said:
I mean didn t they release a patch
sent from my epic 4g with no 4g
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Yes, but it didn't work.
boomerbubba said:
The GSM versions of the Galaxy S, which includes the Captivate, Vibrant and International I9000, have one GPS chip -- the relatively new Broadcom BCM4751. The CDMA versions, the Epic and the Fascinate , use another -- the multipurpose Qualcomm QSC6085 radio that has been in use for three years. As far as the GPS is concerned, these are really two different devices: Different hardware. Different firmware. Different bugs. Different symptoms. (I have owned Vibrants and an Epic, and have tested the GPS rigorously on both. They behave very differently. The GPS bugs on the Epic are unique to the Epic as far as I know, although it is difficult to tell about the Fascinate from anecdotal reports and Verizon slapped a confusing user interface on the settings for location services and GPS.)
The only thing the two general designs have in common is general incompetence. Samsung managed to foul up two different GPS designs in two different ways.
But it is folly to try to make inferential comparisons between the two types.
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Click to collapse
You're correct that the GPS hardware is different and personally, I don't think either GPS chips are the problem. I think the problem is hardware design, as in placement or size of the GPS antenna.
It's like in the old days before cable was popular and everyone had rabbit ears on tops of the TV. Regardless of how good or bad the TV tuner was, the type or placement of the antenna made a huge difference. I remember putting tin foil on the antennas to try and get a better signal. I also remember my dad telling me to stand in a funny position or place, with the antenna in my hand, so he could watch his football. LOL...
I really think Samsung designers goofed, just like Apple did, on the antenna. Bad antenna = bad signal.
crabjoe said:
You're correct that the GPS hardware is different and personally, I don't think either GPS chips are the problem. I think the problem is hardware design, as in placement or size of the GPS antenna.
It's like in the old days before cable was popular and everyone had rabbit ears on tops of the TV. Regardless of how good or bad the TV tuner was, the type or placement of the antenna made a huge difference. I remember putting tin foil on the antennas to try and get a better signal. I also remember my dad telling me to stand in a funny position or place, with the antenna in my hand, so he could watch his football. LOL...
I really think Samsung designers goofed, just like Apple did, on the antenna. Bad antenna = bad signal.
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Click to collapse
I must say that I have zero accuracy issues whatsoever. I *do* have stale ephemeris data problems like nobody's business - cold-start mode won't help either if I'm connected to WiFi or 4G (though 4G seems to have better luck.) The software-reported accuracy issues are a hard-coded datum, which in the Captivate has now been removed.
If I don't exclusively sit on 3G, then either Hot-start or Cold-start are unreliable. If I *am* on 3G, then Hot-start pinpoints me exactly, and almost instantly. With cold-start, it takes a bit to narrow in, though the *initial* lock is often faster. Other times, I'll see (in GPS Status) that it has found all 10 satellites, but not locked - the ephemeris bug all over again. Disappointing to say the least. BTW, this is not fixed on Captivate - it cannot get a lock while on WiFi. This has got to be a software problem. Neither my Epic nor Captivate have any issues actually sticking to the satellites. If this were software, then the GPS itself would be unreliable *during* operation; not just initial lock.
crabjoe said:
You're correct that the GPS hardware is different and personally, I don't think either GPS chips are the problem. I think the problem is hardware design, as in placement or size of the GPS antenna.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The SNR levels on the Epic do seem moderately lower than what other phones report. Theroretically this could be due to antenna design. The SNR level itself is a complex estimate by the GPS chip, not an objective reality being metered. So another possible explanation is that the SNR calculation is buggy. The estimated accuracy calculation is obviously buggy, always reported at 30.0 meters as if it is hard-coded. So there could also be a bug in the calculation of SNR, too. As for antenna design, I don't even assume that the Epic has the same antenna design as other Galaxy S phones, because its form factor is completely different.
In any case, signal sensitivity cannot explain the locking behavior, which has been isolated by user testing to be caused by bad handling of the cache of GPS almanac and ephemeris data. This is a bug.
Poor signal sensitivity could explain problems with actual accuracy. But like APOLAUF, I don't think there is a problem with actual actual accuracy on the Epic. The way to test that empirically is by plotting the recorded tracks in software such as My Tracks. If have done that with my Epic, for both driving and walking tracks, simultaneously with benchmark tracks captured by a known good device. I used my venerable G1, which has excellent GPS performance. The actual accuracy of the Epic is just as good.
The other GSM-based Galaxy S devices have had problems with actual accuracy, verified by many tests with My Tracks. But they are wholly different devices.
It is hard to tell from anecdotal reports in forums how accurate GPS performance is. Some reports of poor accuracy can be explained by poor locking. Some can be explained by pilot error. It takes controlled testing to get at the facts. Unfortunately, most commenters in forums, including this one, haven't a clue how to test the GPS rigorously.
IMO
First I have a co-worker who has been working with a developer and can get a GPS lock on his captivate super quick. To aide he is using the cell towers to get him a list of applicable satellites to his approximate location and gets a massive list of responding sats.
The next point is that I think that there is likely an issue with the Antenna . . but I do not think that is exclusively the issue. If this were strictly a HW issue then the issue would not be alleviated after a restart of the phone. There are multiple accounts that this is what is occurring.
Personally (and perhaps because this is my first true GPS phone) it is a minor inconvenience and doesnt bother me too much. . . . but is annoying and something that I would expect Sammy to go after. . . or at least acknowledge
Hi today I bough a Samsung vibrant from T-Mobile an the date on the box is 10/26/10 and it came already updated software and I truer the GPS and its perfect locked in 8 seconds and while I was driving it kept on the road spot on. I had vibrants before maybe 4 of them and the back cover is smooth I think the ones I had before I fulfilled feel the dots now its smooth. I think they changed the phone internals becouse even the vibrants I had before after update the GPS was crap. Anyone had any experiance?
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Mine locks pretty quick too, I never had any GPS problems since I got the phone two weeks ago.
So does that mean the rest of us that got our phone, few months back are screwed?
That's what owning a samsung phone is like always getting screwed. The days are numberd
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
What?! Does this mean we wont get a fix for the other people? I'm always travelling and GPS is one of the most useful things I need... my old blackberry has a perfect GPS isn't this meant to be a smartphone
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
The thing is that all the phones have something wrong or screwed IP there is no phone that is perfect its just us we are beeping to perfectionists.
My wife and I got ours on the buy 1 get 1 free deal. Ours are both dated 09/26/2010. The SIM Serial # on hers ends in 22288F and mine end in 22296F.
It takes me about 45 second to a minute to get a lock running Axura 2.0.4 and I got a lock using 6 of 7 satellites with accuracy of about 70 feet.
My brother-in-law standing right next to me with a HTC Dream G1 locked on 12 of 14 satellites in about 9 -10 seconds and a accuracy of 10 feet running stock.
My wife running stock saw 2 satellites and never got a lock.
EDIT: This thread is now depreciated. Please visit http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=878970 for a fix. I thought I would put the edit here so you don't have to read to page 7 to see the link to the fix.
they didnt change the antenna..give it a few days and i gurantee u it wont work as good
My gps has worked since day one
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
You did not buy a GPS Receiver, you bought a phone with a GPS antenna which is used to track your movement. It just also happens to receive signals from GPS satellites that you are able to use. If you require dead on GPS location then you should go buy a GPS Receiver.
Think of all the things this phone does. It doesn't do any of them better than a device designed to do just that. All-in-one devices are never as good as the devices they are designed to combine.
Zylograth said:
You did not buy a GPS Receiver, you bought a phone with a GPS antenna which is used to track your movement. It just also happens to receive signals from GPS satellites that you are able to use.
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That is correct, BUT when pretty much EVERY other Android phone on the market out performs it in this aspect, there is a flaw in the system. As stated, the G1 locks on faster & stays locked on much better than this phone.
With that said, I tell the GPS where I want to go, and by the time I've left my neighborhood, it's working great. The fact that it takes 10 times longer to lock on doesn't really matter to me.
Using all of the Bionix ROMs and now using the Axura 2.0.5 ROMs, I've been happy with my GPS. When I was using complete stock, it was crap. IIRC, JI6 wasn't bad though.
I'm currently playing with a friends Galaxy Tab and inside nowhere near a window, it locked on and showed my location without the wireless network assist or verizon location assist being turned on (but that could just be because the phone is bigger and would therefore use a larger antenna).
It's just sad what has happened to businesses, they really just don't care about consumers. I really doubt we'll ever see a fix and if we do, i doubt it'll work for more than 50% of people. I've never been so disappointed with a company. The only thing we can do is just never buy samsung again. Just so disappointing all around.
Microwave frequencies antenna design is fraught with both peril and magic
tjhart85 said:
I'm currently playing with a friends Galaxy Tab and inside nowhere near a window, it locked on and showed my location without the wireless network assist or verizon location assist being turned on (but that could just be because the phone is bigger and would therefore use a larger antenna).
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Click to collapse
NOPE! All antennas must be designed with a physical length that matches the frequency they are designed to operate at. For GPS this is 1575.42 Mhz and therefore due to the physics of radio frequency ALL GPS antennas are about 7.5 inches long, they have to be to work. Antennas typically work better if they are designed with some type of coil (wrapped around something) so by the time you take 7.5 inches of wire and coil it the resulting antenna is quite small. You can also make a panel antenna by creating a trace of conductive line on a flat surface, but the length still has to be the same to work. Regardless of the size of the device it is going into, if you want the antenna to work at a specific frequency it must be a specific length - end of discussion.
So if the GPS issue varies from phone to phone so much, assuming the antenna is the problem, but it can be affected by software, what is likely the problem? Logic would say that it might be either poor quality control in manufacturing causing slight variances in length (at 1575.42 Mhz a small difference in length can make a big difference) or a design that partially obstructs the antenna. Software can not fix the physical antenna issue, but it can compensate by attempting to filter noise better thus increasing the receiver sensitivity, boosting transmit power, or by shifting phase of the signal to make minor adjustments to the effective conductive length of the antenna.
Another possible issue (but less likely because I see no way for software to effect this) is that Samsung did not get a good impedance match between their antenna and their radio. If this was the case you would lose a great deal of signal to and create a lot of noise because of reflective power. Transmitting at a lower power would reduce over all signal, and boosting power would just create a greater reflective power problem.
lolcopter said:
My gps has worked since day one
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Ditto
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
I too am a replacement Vibrant GPS lover now. Both phones were stock. It has been a week with the new phone and I have not seen any decrease in the GPS performance yet. The old phone had mic issues
I have read many of the GPS posts, but will admit I have not read them all so I don't know if this was talked about yet. While outside tonight as I was doing my daily test I turned the phone upside down so screen is facing the ground and my signal improved from the mid 30's of the "in use" sats to the low to mid 40's. It was nice to see a lot of green for a change. Accuracy improved too. Not sure how the GPS gear is mounted in the phone, but it sure looks like there is a lot stronger signal coming in the the back side then the screen side.
My "use wireless networks" is off
I did this test a number of times while keeping the phone the same distance from the ground. Same results. If there is any other questions or other tests I would be happy to do what I can.
So there you go, the GPS works great, we all just need to hold the phone above our heads..
Zylograth said:
You did not buy a GPS Receiver, you bought a phone with a GPS antenna which is used to track your movement. It just also happens to receive signals from GPS satellites that you are able to use. If you require dead on GPS location then you should go buy a GPS Receiver.
Think of all the things this phone does. It doesn't do any of them better than a device designed to do just that. All-in-one devices are never as good as the devices they are designed to combine.
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Click to collapse
My g1 and mytouch 3g and nexus all had great GPS. The sgs is advertised as the premier device. We have every reason to expect GPS to work and we have absolutely no reason to think one of the advertised features will be broken. GPS is a huge part of smartphones, and since its proven to work on thousands of handsets for years it should work on our vibrants. Maybe new technology gets flexibility but this is GPS we are talking about, its been done and been done perfectly a thousand times over. The phone has plenty of small bugs which is acceptable. Its not acceptable for GPS to be f****d. I think even Samsung would say its unacceptable that I have to carry around my nexus one for its GPS. My vibrant works until I'm about 2/3 of the way to my destination. So basically my screen starts spinning when I'm about as lost as possible. Thank God for my nexus one
GPS on the Vibrant is not a hardware issue. If they have change the hardware, which I doubt, it wouldn't have fixed anything unless they also changed the software. And if they've fixed the software -- which they did in JI2 and JI6 for most people -- then we'll get that fix with the official 2.2 release. OR you could just flash a custom wrong and get good GPS now.
Hi this is the software I have on the phone.
Firmware version. 2.1-update1
Baseband version. T959UVJI6
Karnel version. 2.6.29
Build number. ECLAIR.UVJI6
I don't know if anything diferrent.
Sent from my SCH-I800 using XDA App
I don't understand the comparison to other devices and talk of "I'll never buy another Samsung device."
Since the Galaxy's screen demolishes the competition, I guess the rest of the manufacturers out the are just junk. They are supposed to be top of the line devices so their screen should be as good as this subpar samsung.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
My GPS has worked since day one.
raverj said:
Ditto
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
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Click to collapse
+1
But certainly Samsung should be better at fixes and T-mobile couldn't be any slower.
Still by far the best device I've ever had, and I had a lot. Axura
And Froyo pull it all together.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Hello,
Got a gs2 and still have my incredible s so I tested GPS precision: got 4 meters for the HTC and not stable and lower precision 18/20 meters on gs2.
Is something adjustable with new kernels?
Another two questions : about voice low quality ( someone said that it depends from noise reduction filet) and low volume during a call are these issues already addressed by some roms?
Low volume and quality with earphones is addressed too?
Thanks!
GPS is a disappointment. On my old pda asus a696 precision is much better. I wish gps was working better for me, I use it with sport tracking software. I changed ntp server, played with all kinds of gps apps, updated AGPS data, helped a bit but fix is still slow and precision is almost always more then 30m.
If anybody saw an improvement on some ROM or kernel, please let me know.
Attached my device info.
bzpwhx2 said:
Hello,
Got a gs2 and still have my incredible s so I tested GPS precision: got 4 meters for the HTC and not stable and lower precision 18/20 meters on gs2.
Is something adjustable with new kernels?
No as no reported flaw in GPS so nothing with GPS altered that i have seen.
jje
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Click to collapse
i am honestly very disappointed with the sgs2's gps precision. tested it side by side with the HTC Chacha...rebooted, cleared gps data and redownloaded it (Gps status app), then run test on both devices for abt 2-3 mins.
SGS2 7/7 satelites, error 40m!!!
HTC Chacha 10/10 satelites, error 6-10m!!!
frm both rooted 2.3.4 and stock firmware ...
I agree that the precision (error) is bad on the S2. However, in my experience, when I open maps and look at the location, it seems to be just about dead on. Meaning, even though there is often a blue circle, the center of the circle is extremely close to my actual position. So, I think the issue may be with how the phone calculates the "error" and not with any real inaccuracy. It feels like the reported error value is double what it should really be based on my position on google maps. This is just my experience, ymmv.
TheSopranos16 said:
I agree that the precision (error) is bad on the S2. However, in my experience, when I open maps and look at the location, it seems to be just about dead on. Meaning, even though there is often a blue circle, the center of the circle is extremely close to my actual position. So, I think the issue may be with how the phone calculates the "error" and not with any real inaccuracy. It feels like the reported error value is double what it should really be based on my position on google maps. This is just my experience, ymmv.
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Click to collapse
I agree with this. I was puzzled at first too when I looked at the accuracy reading, but then I realized that the actual positioning was much better than the reported 'error margin'.
The GPS itself is fine, but whatever algorithm they use to report accuracy is flawed..or should I say, could be better.
TheSopranos16 said:
However, in my experience, when I open maps and look at the location, it seems to be just about dead on.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same here.
jimbiye said:
I agree with this. I was puzzled at first too when I looked at the accuracy reading, but then I realized that the actual positioning was much better than the reported 'error margin'.
The GPS itself is fine, but whatever algorithm they use to report accuracy is flawed..or should I say, could be better.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
GPS accuracy is a statistical estimate of the maximum error and many assumptions must be made when calculating this, and I don't think different manufactureres does this in the same way.
So a HTC could very well report better accuracy than SGS2 but provide worse position (or vice versa).
Here is an interesting article about GPS accuracy, it mainly concerns static accuracy (reported accuracy in specifications), but the problems are basically the same for dynamic accuracy.
http://www.romdas.com/technical/gps/gps-acc.htm
When I've logged driving on a highway with SGS2 (with my tracks, i e no map matching or other filtering) the position is often within the correct lane but still SGS2 reports 10 meter accuracy (good GPS reception). But once in a while the position drifts a bit further away, mabe 5-10 meters. I would guess I get similar results with other modern smart phones with good GPS even if they report 4 meter accuracy. What phone is wrong in this case? The one reporting 4 meter accuracy that often is correct or the one reporting 10 meters that is even more often correct?
So please compare the phones by logging routes simultanously with "my tracks" instead. I've seen very few tests doing this, and SGS2 seems to do very well in the few tests I've seen
But not only the accuracy is an issue but initial fix is very slow compared to other phones. Even in hotstart mode when it had fix ten minutes ago it still most times takes over a minute to get a fix vs 7 to 10 secs on my Sgs 1
Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk
I had this problem and found that disabling wifi with data enabled led to much faster first fixes - I assume because the a-GPS data could be obtained more quickly direct from the carrier rather than over the wifi?
Also my UK phone shipped with a US NTP time server. I have since rooted and used GPS Aids to change this and refresh the other GPS data and now have no problems getting a first fix, usually in under 10 seconds.
Last week i traveled to Bosnia and used GPS on my SGS2 for the first time. I have only good words for it as with IGo it was very accurate (in a meter).But as i see with Google maps app GPS is wrong up to 20m.
I was also concerned about the gps first cause it seemed to show very inaccurate results and I have used gps with running a lot. However after using it to track my tracks I have to say that its 98% perfect. Also used it to navigate while driving and its also perfect. Samsung has just done something which makes it look like it would be more inaccurate but reality it is not.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA Premium App
same here. I tested GPS performance a few times when i was walking (relatively static), the error was never under 10 meters, however it did not have a problem tracking my position.
In the other hand, I did have some long long GPS locks from time to time, once in a while the GPS just cannot seem to find my position, despite the fact that I am standing outdoors with no tall buildings around.
Overall experience, just acceptable.