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Dopod D810/Trinity GPS Question

Fellas and ladies,
I have heard good things about this phone (the OZ variety anyway). My question pertains to the GPS chip. Is this chip comparable to the SIRF-III (or something similar) in MIO A701? How is the reception/accuracy in the major cities? Melb, Sydney, Perth in particular?
Is there a "better" unit coming around the corner soon-ish? Ideally FM tuner would be good.
Also I am looking to ebay a bluetooth handset. Any cheapish (<$50-60) ones worthwhile spending molah on?
Cheers

I don't have anything to compare too, but use in suburban Melbourne with TomTom and was blown away by the accuracy.
Also even have it working indoors, where another GPS device we have at work requires an external antenna outside for it to work.

A few years ago I had an external GPS receiver by TomTom. In my car (with nice dark windows) I could only get a fix if I held the receiver near the sidewindow, no fix at all anywhere else in the car. With the Trinity I can have the device anywhere I like in the car and get a fix all the time.

Redbo1000 said:
Fellas and ladies,
I have heard good things about this phone (the OZ variety anyway). My question pertains to the GPS chip. Is this chip comparable to the SIRF-III (or something similar) in MIO A701? How is the reception/accuracy in the major cities? Melb, Sydney, Perth in particular?
Is there a "better" unit coming around the corner soon-ish? Ideally FM tuner would be good.
Also I am looking to ebay a bluetooth handset. Any cheapish (<$50-60) ones worthwhile spending molah on?
Cheers
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is not a SIRF III Chip but a Qualcomm Chip. I have the TomTom Bluetooth Mouse Mk-II which has a SIRF III and performs slightly better than the Trinity. I will sell that Mouse anyway, cause the difference is so small that I prefer not to carry 2 items around...

Comparison of several PDAs with internal GPS units here:
http://www.gpspassion.com/fr/articles.asp?id=175&page=6
Including both the Mio A701 and the Orange M700, which is the Trinity by another name.
Basically the conclusion was that the Qualcomm chipset used in the Trinity is not as good as SIRF3, but is not too bad.
I have a BT SIRF3 module (purchased before the Trinity) and I haven't noticed any significant difference in performance between it and the Trinity internal GPS. Though I'm not working it that hard - mostly using it in suburban, open type environments where a GPS lock is not difficult.

Thanks fellas... I was also trying around melbourne suburbs with excellent success... It also locks to GPS indoors (takes a while though)!!!

The only drawback to the Qualcomm is that it takes quite some time to get a first fix (cold start), and even forget about getting a fix at all if you're already moving around...
The performance when it has a fix, is truely remarkable though. Worth of notice; because of the Qualcoom performing the GPS, the GPS won't work if you have the phone shut down...

Best rom for P3600

Hi everyone, tomorrow I will go to buy the P3600, I do not know if is better to leave the WM5 or upgrade to WM6, what would you suggest? What is the best rom? Thanks

If you take a minute or two and search the forum, you'll see this question has been asked many, many times before

yawn.....next question?

liamhere said:
yawn.....next question?
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Alright, if you're so smart, I'll give you one nobody answered to date, despite my questions in many threads:
What about a quickfix program that works for the GPS unit?
P.S. I don't really understand why nobody cares about this one, probably nobody had a SirfIII in their hand before with quick GPS running, so they can tell the difference with the P3600....

It's not that we don't care or haven't used other types of devices, i find that i get a lock within a minute or two max, by the time my GPRS or 3G connection is established & details updated i'd have a locked in GPS anyway.

ozsmac said:
It's not that we don't care or haven't used other types of devices, i find that i get a lock within a minute or two max, by the time my GPRS or 3G connection is established & details updated i'd have a locked in GPS anyway.
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Before my P3600 I had a Glofiish X.500. The quick fix took exactly 3 seconds, in the middle of Paris with tall buildings around me. In the same location, my P3600 doesn't even fix at all. I have to be out on an open square with lots of visibility to the sky, then it's 1-2 minutes.
Believe me, even though the P3600 is a lightyear advanced in terms of quality compared to the Glofiish, on the GPS side I find it extremely hard to accept even a 1 minute fix when I had 3 seconds before ! (and yes, 3 seconds, not 20 like on the P3300 which I also found slow for a Sirf III chip).
I guess that the new Glofiish X.800 is becoming a serious competitor here, with a Sirf III chip and 3 second quick fix as well.
Actually I also have an external Royaltek 2010. This one takes only 20 seconds for a cold fix, inside a car, without any quickfix software !

it isn't that bad actually. Under the same condition, it took my D810 around 2 mins to get a fix,the N95 about 4 and the 6110 Navigator,despite it being marketed as a GPS phone,7 mins.There are better GPS phones of course, but the trinity is not the worst so lets not dwell too much on it.

Skyline R34 said:
it isn't that bad actually. Under the same condition, it took my D810 around 2 mins to get a fix,the N95 about 4 and the 6110 Navigator,despite it being marketed as a GPS phone,7 mins.There are better GPS phones of course, but the trinity is not the worst so lets not dwell too much on it.
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true, but when you're in a car, driving out of a parking lot, you don't want to wait for 1-3 minutes before getting a driving direction. 3 seconds only - that's what the Glofiish X500 needs, just as fast as a warm fix.

iphone3GS GPS accuracy/signal lock V HD2

Can anyone compare the two? My HD2 had a pretty good GPS lock and the accuracy of positioning couldn't be grumbled at. I hear that the 3GS isn't so good in this department?

No, the iPhone 3GS is very bad in that department. It's not very accurate and it can take minutes to get the fix, compared to about 5-10 seconds it usually takes with the HD2.
That's why TomTom sells its car kit for the iPhone with an additional GPS receiver. With that car kit, it's about as good as the HD2

sunking101 said:
Can anyone compare the two? My HD2 had a pretty good GPS lock and the accuracy of positioning couldn't be grumbled at. I hear that the 3GS isn't so good in this department?
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why asking about iphone forget about it it is not iphone forum

At my home, GPS puts me about 20miles from where I actually am, signal strength is bad in my area but HD2 has had the highest signal strength from all the phones I've used.
It's decent when I'm in town, has a circle and is about 500m off, circle is 2km big. Nireland ain't worth crying about so I'm not complaining.

MrMagicMushroom said:
At my home, GPS puts me about 20miles from where I actually am, signal strength is bad in my area but HD2 has had the highest signal strength from all the phones I've used.
It's decent when I'm in town, has a circle and is about 500m off, circle is 2km big. Nireland ain't worth crying about so I'm not complaining.
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Are you sure you're talking about GPS and not cell tower triangulation only?
I think you have not turned on GPS

sunking101 said:
Can anyone compare the two? My HD2 had a pretty good GPS lock and the accuracy of positioning couldn't be grumbled at. I hear that the 3GS isn't so good in this department?
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I had both (3GS) at the same time and compared them on several occasions. The longest trip I took was approx. 200 miles - I did not have them both turned on all the way (neither of the batteries would allow that), but had them turned on at the same time for part of the trip. The iPhone was running Navigon and the HD2 was running TomTom. They aquired the satelittes equally fast, but the iPhone seems better when on the move - the HD2 lost track of the satelites on several occasions and was a bit slower/a little behind the iPhone when displaying turns etc.
I did on a stock HD2 with the first ROM edition approx. 1 1/2 months ago - I no longer have my iPhone, so I havent compared with the newest ROM version.
Best regards,
Jacob

freyberry said:
Are you sure you're talking about GPS and not cell tower triangulation only?
I think you have not turned on GPS
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I just tried it there, used Quick GPS but it only downloads good satellite information, fiddled around with Google maps and hit the GPS button, I remember doing that before and it loaded for awhile. I left it longer and it got me a position which is on the spot, but it's still loading?
Silly me!

Which GPS chipset does the HD2 use?

Googling and searching these forums doesn't bring up anything obvious. So does anyone know what chipset it uses? Looking at logged data it is operating at 1Hz.

It's built-in the Qualcomm Snapdragon chipset, see here

Thanks. I'm just trying to work out if it will do as good a job as my external bluetooth sirf III one I used for racetrack lap timing with my previous phone.
For normal navigation the inbuilt GPS gets fast lock and seems to work okay but the more accuracy the better for the track.
Guess I can just run it and compare times to the electronic timing (which take 1-2 hours to be printed out and released hence the need for an instant solution).

it's the best inbuilt gps ive used gets a lock in under 10 sec my xperia used to take 30s to 1 min.

michaeljf said:
Thanks. I'm just trying to work out if it will do as good a job as my external bluetooth sirf III one I used for racetrack lap timing with my previous phone.
For normal navigation the inbuilt GPS gets fast lock and seems to work okay but the more accuracy the better for the track.
Guess I can just run it and compare times to the electronic timing (which take 1-2 hours to be printed out and released hence the need for an instant solution).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The SiRF chip is better than the GpsOne on Qualcomm SOCs.
And to above post, this might be because AGPS is actually working on this phone rather than the antenna being better.

dont think i have agps enabled if im correct it uses data, when i start igo 8 no connection is made, im just using antena.

my device recives signals even if iam in home and recives at least 3 satellites

michaeljf said:
Thanks. I'm just trying to work out if it will do as good a job as my external bluetooth sirf III one I used for racetrack lap timing with my previous phone.
For normal navigation the inbuilt GPS gets fast lock and seems to work okay but the more accuracy the better for the track.
Guess I can just run it and compare times to the electronic timing (which take 1-2 hours to be printed out and released hence the need for an instant solution).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
it will be down to how fast/often the app polls the gps surely?
I've been playing with it a fair bit (for the same purpose) and it certainly better than one or two stand alone gps

Getting satellites indoors or getting a fast satallite fix does NOT automatically indicate that the GPS chip is good.
Actually GPS on the HD2 is pretty poor compared to the SIRF III chip, or even compared to other HTC devices, I am talking about accuracy and stuff. This is a fact, so i don't want to hear any more about "how good it is because it gets a fast fix" or other crap
For more info:
GPS going crazy (proven with plot screenshots)
Weird GPS problem. Moving even while my car is motionless.
Recent ROM/Radio for the HD2 upgrades do seem to improve this bad GPS functionality though.

barty22 said:
Actually GPS on the HD2 is pretty poor compared to the SIRF III chip, or even compared to other HTC devices, I am talking about accuracy and stuff
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Accurate, scientific data to prove that assumption, please?

kilrah said:
Accurate, scientific data to prove that assumption, please?
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Click to collapse
I understand your viewpoint, actually I had such information (plots of the HD2 and of other devices), but I really can't be bothered to make them again and spend all the effort on it... just believe me when i say it (or don't believe it, i'm just sharing what i know)... or have a read through the topics i linked to (should be enough proof in there)

Well if I have time I'll try both at the same time this weekend at the track (still have my old phone and external GPS).
With the high speeds involved and a racing line that varies no more than 1-2m it becomes pretty easy to tell if the GPS is out when plotted on a track overlay.
Plus values for lat/long g forces and speed are all extrapolated so if these are out it becomes pretty obvious.

No more GPS problems

I bought my Galaxy S few weeks ago and I could barely use the GPS. It took way too long to get it working and still it was inaccurate.
Few days ago I flashed JM2 firmware and installed app called TrackerBooster (can be found in the Android Market). Now the GPS works perfectly, takes only few seconds to get it connected (outdoors). I have used it now like 15 times and max. time I had to wait was 20 seconds.
I'm not sure does TrackerBooster app need to be installed, might work well without it, haven't tested.
I hope this helps those who have problems with GPS but this is just my experience, I would wait for other comments before flashing new a firmware.

It's called new firmware flashing syndrom for GPS. Basically, if you flash to any new firmware, your GPS will work for a few days.

As Foxbat said, a full flash/reset cycle improves results on the pathetic, schizophrenic and overall random SGS GPS implementation. But I am not going to be a smart ass and insinuate you don't know what you're talking about.
Instead I'll just ignore all the previous "the GPS issue is fixed" claims by many users who prematurely yelled "fixed" and just cowardly quote one of my favourite authors..."Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." - Carl Sagan
Plus we shall also ignore the previous 308 users who have "cried Wolf"^-1. Please refer to your favorite fable author for proper reference.

Its occurred so many times, it actually has it's own syndrome!! FFS

Beowulf_pt said:
As Foxbat said, a full flash/reset cycle improves results on the pathetic, schizophrenic and overall random SGS GPS implementation. But I am not going to be a smart ass and insinuate you don't know what you're talking about.
Instead I'll just ignore all the previous "the GPS issue is fixed" claims by many users who prematurely yelled "fixed" and just cowardly quote one of my favourite authors..."Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." - Carl Sagan
Plus we shall also ignore the previous 308 users who have "cried Wolf"^-1. Please refer to your favorite fable author for proper reference.
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Click to collapse
So you still trolling the forums about your GPS problem even after you sold your Samsung if you ever had one from the beginning. I have never had serious problem as many others and if only 308 of millions have had a problem it must certainly be a really good GPS. Stop trolling you only because look like an ignorant user who really do not want to make the phone better but want to promote NOKIA.

For sure, milsjg. You can add me too as ignorant, 309th user who's GPS sucks d*ck hard.

I wish my GPS sucked d**k... that would at least make it useful! ) 310th user here noticing GPS issues... that said while I was on JM7, I managed to record a very very close to perfect track using mytracks... for the walking section of my test it went perfectly even showing where I retraced my steps to go to poo bins! But when I got on to driving it went a bit mental and I apparently drove through the fire station, the wrong way round roundabouts and demolished a few streets worth of houses, but occationally it did show me going down the right side of the road!

You forget that before he even got it, he was complaining that he was reluctant to buy the phone because of reports about lag and GPS (and then, proceeded to buy it anyway).
The main problem is that people have different quality of acceptance for GPS. Some people expect a signal which compares with a fitness GPS (accurate within 2 or 3 meters generally), and some of us don't care if it drifts off by 20m.
Any technology which doesn't have a definitive state will get various opinions...

andrewluecke said:
You forget that before he even got it, he was complaining that he was reluctant to buy the phone because of reports about lag and GPS (and then, proceeded to buy it anyway).
The main problem is that people have different quality of acceptance for GPS. Some people expect a signal which compares with a fitness GPS (accurate within 2 or 3 meters generally), and some of us don't care if it drifts off by 20m.
Any technology which doesn't have a definitive state will get various opinions...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But then when it comes to navigation (arguably the principal purpose of having GPS in these devices) things go totally haywire! ) Personally I wonder whether GPS was installed purely for marketing purposes, to allow app developers (and of course google!) to snoop as to where their users are and how they are using their devices. For that there's no need for close tracking! )

not sure why you would fault beowulf for buying, if as you indicate he had some concerns - the damn phone is drop dead gorgous. If any product could stimulate optimism or optimistic hope, even in a skeptic, this phone would. And that's what makes it so frustrating.
I'm going to hate sending it back (i negotiated an extended buyer remorse return period) but if GPS isn't corrected by mid sept, this phone is history
samsung having released it w/o working gps is maybe forgiveable, but then even assuming they didn't know about the issue before release, it's been over 90 days since the asian release, and it's still not working.
Lay on top of that that samsung announced the GPS had been "validated" in the EPIC 4G, and it turns out it isn't. That did nothing but strengthen my doubts on samsung delivering a solution.

Tried this tracker booster app, makes no difference, gps still horrendous. If some people think that a 20m accuracy variation is acceptable for a gps lock they are a bloody fool.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App

Bynar010 said:
Tried this tracker booster app, makes no difference, gps still horrendous. If some people think that a 20m accuracy variation is acceptable for a gps lock they are a bloody fool.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then it must be the firmware I flashed. There's a big difference with JM2 and the previous FW I had, if I remember right it was JF3.
The accuracy is good, for example Endomondo regonizes few meter changes. (like changing side of the road).

Sorry to offend you but Beowulf_pt has no SGS and still he is lurking around complaining. If you think about it ,there must be some reasons that I and several others have a perfectly normal (no correction) GPS on our SGS. Why is it working so different for different persons? Some logical alternatives would be error in a batch of phones (switch it), or operator programming has messed it up (get new operator), or just overload caused by program running in background, memory and task mangers etc ( educate yourself or wait for a proper kernel - see below) or in some cases just plain trolling of some non SGS owners (see my last reply).
The GPS chip is new and according to the web only recently the code for efficient low level drivers, for the linux kernel, has started to appear on internet (23 august). It will take some weeks before they are implemented so I would bet that they have fixed it by the end of September. You know, bad driver = slow, no calender etc. You will notice it specially when you use program that uses lots of resources (Maps and My tracker). It is much more efficient with Cardiotrainer for example or GPS test. (see my third conclusion above). I have noticed that (at least for me) it takes 5 - 10 sec to get a first lock in GPS test but half a minute at least in Maps or My Tracks.
Another tip is to run for example GPS test for one minute or so before My Track so the GPS gets some satellite data downloaded (calenders). The time also helps the GPS to calculate the exact position to use as a start point. You normally need a minute or so if the calenders are to old or you moved to get the right positions.
Iphone 4 has a good GPS (3 is crap according to some owners and it is not fixed. Do you hear any complaints?). The chip is one generation older than SGS and Apple do not need to wait for the kernel to be changed in there Iphone. They do it them self and by the way Iphone 4 is not really multitasking which means that GPS programs can easily be prioritized.
Well this is a short version. The net is filled with facts and if you start read a little you can start puzzle together what the cause is for your faulty GPS (nearly nobody believes its hardware any more).
By the way, I am not ignorant and I know rather much about GPS and how to evaluate tracking (I have written several scientific papers on tracking of wildlife where at least one was on the subject - evaluation of ARGOS tracking devices using GPS as reference). I have owned several mobiles and GPSes, programmed and built fish tracking devices, and did my thesis on wildlife tracking. I stating this not to try to end the GPS discussion but to make it a little bit more "scientific" and not so emotional like the comments on my last reply. There still nobody that knows how many that has a problem with the GPS. We only know that a few of millions have complained and a few of millions have said there satisfied with it.

Bynar010 said:
Tried this tracker booster app, makes no difference, gps still horrendous. If some people think that a 20m accuracy variation is acceptable for a gps lock they are a bloody fool.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
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Click to collapse
On the contrar my friend, 5 - 15 meters is what you can expect and that means that the fix has 95 % certainty to be in that interval. 20 is a little bit above what you can expect but not much. In good dedicated trackers or a good phones you can get 5 meters (which I often get after 30 sec outside) and 2,5 for some fixes but not constant. A mobile is not a dedicated GPS and with the suspected driver problem 20 would not be bad. Try with GPS test, under open sky, and holding it at the bottom of the phone. Before you start you should turn off and on the GPS and close all task managers and started programs. You know that home means often that you leave the program running in the background but using back shuts it down. And wait for 30 - 60 seconds. If you get 10 be satisfied it,s a phone and not a dedicated GPS.

My touch hd would actually follow the f$$king road. Not too much to ask that a brand new smart phone would do the same is it? Its nothing short of pathetic. Even my old tytn2 was superb as a gps device for navigation, this thing cannot be trusted.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App

I for one am getting SICK of installing fw's hoping for a fix for GPS.
They put a good hardware-wise device out.. But its kinda shoddy the fw development isn't equally as good. I have flashed nearly ALL the fw's to no real avail..
I am started to get frustrated after all this patience..

FWIW
Running 2.2 with no lag, fix no root, no apps to help. Google Nav and Co-Pilot work flawlessly. Mytracks follows me walking down the pavement at the correct position and on the correct side of the road with very few deviations.
I really cannot see what all the fuss is ablout here.

Tehpriest said:
FWIW
Running 2.2 with no lag, fix no root, no apps to help. Google Nav and Co-Pilot work flawlessly. Mytracks follows me walking down the pavement at the correct position and on the correct side of the road with very few deviations.
I really cannot see what all the fuss is ablout here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well try it in a car and get supprised...

praun said:
well try it in a car and get supprised...
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Click to collapse
That is where I use both Co-Pilot and Google Nav.....

Beowulf_pt said:
..y quote one of my favourite authors..."Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." - Carl Sagan
.
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Well I rather stick with Popper. Extraordinary evidence or support isn't that hard to get (look at the paranormal claims etc). What is more difficult and more fruitful to come by is some clever tests that eventually will or can refute a claim. If a theory will pass those tests it is actually more trustworthy then when it gets "extraordinary" evidence.
Again, no theory will stand till the end of time, how extra-ordinary our evidences may be.
Lol, back to the gps.