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Multitouch pinch to zoom is nice and all, but I mainly am looking forward to it in games to get the kind of experience the iPhone has been delivering with onscreen dpads and buttons. It's the kind of thing necessary to play Nesoid and others on the Nexus One.
There's a game in the market called ToonWarz Lite that tries to implement exactly that; the left side is a dpad and the right side is buttons and look direction. Problem is... it doesn't really work that well. It doesn't seem to track two fingers consistently, especially if the two touch points "cross" the same axis. The game looks pretty great, but control is still a mess in my opinion. I'm hoping it will/can improve.
Is this a limitation in hardware? SDK? Just bad design? Is it that clumsy on an iPhone too (I've never used one)? I know multitouch is supported, but I'm just concerned if there are still hardware limitations preventing it from working as well as I wish it would.
Android has supported multitouch for a long time. We're just now getting Google Apps w/ multitouch...that is all.
So to answer your question, the game's multitouch is poorly designed.
Deathwish238 said:
So to answer your question, the game's multitouch is poorly designed.
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That's reassuring. Especially because in those multitouch demo apps (like MultiTouch Visualizer) the same problem seems to be apparent. Pressing two points near the same axis just seems to kind of stick and not register correctly. And it doesn't seem to react instantly, there's a delay before it recognizes the second touch point.
Does anybody know of an app that demonstrates it better, without the problems I've mentioned above?
Otherwise I'll just sit tight and hope for better implementation one day
dudinatrix said:
That's reassuring. Especially because in those multitouch demo apps (like MultiTouch Visualizer) the same problem seems to be apparent. Pressing two points near the same axis just seems to kind of stick and not register correctly. And it doesn't seem to react instantly, there's a delay before it recognizes the second touch point.
Does anybody know of an app that demonstrates it better, without the problems I've mentioned above?
Otherwise I'll just sit tight and hope for better implementation one day
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Click to collapse
The last time I looked at the source for MTV it was using the "old style" of MT where it would infer the locations of the two fingers based on the "size" of the primary touch. This was the closest you could get back on 1.6 which lacked the true MT APIs. Also, this method involved a heuristic to determine when there was more than one touch - I think the size had to go over a threshold before it would try to decode the multiple touches. All in all it looked a lot like voodoo to me and I wasn't surprised by how flaky the results were, especially when crossing axes.
In 2.0 they now report each touch independently with its own size and pressure. I was going to hack the MTV app to do true multi-touch, but I never got around to it. Did you find a version of it that is "True MT" or is it still the same old original version that was doing it the old way?
http://androidandme.com/2010/03/news/is-multitouch-broken-on-the-nexus-one/
I hope this is a problem that can be fixed. Although it appears to be a hardware issue according to a Google engineer.
I have a Nexus One.
puuh..I read this..and I dont like to read it again, not even think of it
I downloaded the app, and it's not as bad on mine as his. The issue mine kept having was that it would snap to the grid line of the other touch point, and then it would start losing track of the original touch point. So if touch point 1 y intersected with touch point 2 x it would snap to X and then I could slide along X and the dot would not follow.
The touch panel in the N1 is a Synaptics ClearPad 2000 Series. No more than two points can register at once. It supports pinch zoom and pivot. The problem with axis flipping looks like a driver issue.
Does anyone know what the droid touchscreen uses?
Ouch. I don't like looking at it but ultimately I'd don't believe its enough to detour me from getting a nexus one. Mostly I'd us it for pinch zoom browsing and looking at images. Does suck if you try to play games though.
About the only real use for a "proper" multi-touch screen would be games.
However, this may also mean that the "palm-wrap" problem will never go away. :/
Does anybody know if the desire has the same panel?
I believe so, yes, as the Desire is also made by HTC.
One thing that worries me about the HD2 is the touchscreen sensors. If it's just the same ones as the Nexus One, Synaptics CP2000 with faulty multitouch, I might have to reconsider my options.
It does have true multitouch. Youtube it there are a bunch of videos out there.
After seeing YT videos, it looks like the same wonky multitouch in Nexus One. I'm disappointed
What is it you find "wonky" about it
No it's not. Some of the first run HD2s had some bad sensors, but we don't have any trouble crossing streams or whatever you N1 kids call it nowadays.
Like in this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTqh6u2OUFU
Sometimes it jumps all over the place.
And in here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hgrsq2-Vy7Q&feature=channel
It sometimes sticks when you're near the same axis.
The sticking is an auto-align in the driver.
Is there a way to turn that off? Does it support more than 2 fingers?
The limitation is currently the way the HTC code sends the data to other applications. It may be possible to get more points with a lower level hook, though I haven't yet gone that far as I want to investigate what can be done so far
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Back in Nov, guess they got lazy
Not sure about turning it off.
HD2 has multitouch, but can only recognize 2 touch points.
(WP7S min requirement is 4 touch points)
As you can see here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzhUzq6bTPg&feature=player_embedded
The N1 multi-touch issue is very pronounced and extremely different.
I just grabbed both Scilor and |3v5y apps for multitouch.
In the Scilor app (with two circles) you can see a clear snap when you are on the same x or y axis, but again this is driver behavior. Nothing unusual besides that.
In the |3v5y app, the x axis doesn't show any snapping, but crossing on the y axis (possibly a coding error?) swaps the 'paint stream' under the fingers, but still keeps with original positions.
This is similar to the droid on the youtube video above, where the blue and red dot might flip, but it doesn't lose track of what is being touched. Thus, not the same problem as the N1. Not the same sensor. Hurray, hurrah.
ahimberg said:
HD2 has multitouch, but can only recognize 2 touch points.
(WP7S min requirement is 4 touch points)
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Click to collapse
Not true. HD2 2-point multitouch is a driver (soft) limitation, if you read what I just quoted.
On that note does anyone know what sensor HD2 uses?
sorry if this was mentioned before, but i cant seem to find any related threads on hd2 forum, anyways here it goes
does anyone else find the hd2 handles multi touch really poorly compared to some other smartphones out there? like the iphone and samsung galaxy s. this is especially obvious when the two point are close to each other in either axis, which is demonstrated by the video attached below (not by me!), although htc desire is used in the video, i can replicate the same response on my hd2 easily
so my question is, is the htc hd2 hardware 'imperfect' or is it the driver for the touch screen the one that is causing the problem, cheers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVlsRCMltDg
edit: forgot to mention, what i mean by hd2 handles multi touch really poorly is when the 2 touches are close to each other in either axis, the hd2 sort of just merge the two axis, although they are not exactly in the same line!
Ill take the hd2 off your hands.
the touch panel is capable of it.... just bad drivers.... htc is known for f*cking good hardware with ****ty drivers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOD3cWrTuEY&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4IkVp3uWtE&feature=related
polo735 said:
Ill take the hd2 off your hands.
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Click to collapse
haha you wish
JJbdoggg said:
the touch panel is capable of it.... just bad drivers.... htc is known for f*cking good hardware with ****ty drivers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOD3cWrTuEY&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4IkVp3uWtE&feature=related
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i see, hope there will be a fix in the future, because HD2 is one of the most capable smartphone ever... kind of unfortunate when the software cant utilize its full potential!
It.s a known old problem on the HD2. It was a long hard debate that HD2 can only ,,pinch-to-zoom,,. HTC implemented the drivers to use the device just for pinching. There are some workarounds on WM 6.5 to use the MT (look at fpsece) but if you refer to android (games i assume) you will experience weird behavior on the HD2.
snowblindd said:
It.s a known old problem on the HD2. It was a long hard debate that HD2 can only ,,pinch-to-zoom,,. HTC implemented the drivers to use the device just for pinching. There are some workarounds on WM 6.5 to use the MT (look at fpsece) but if you refer to android (games i assume) you will experience weird behavior on the HD2.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dont see the problem personally, unless you are expecting three point touch. Trying one of the multi touch test apps in Android, it works fine... are you referring to the snapping when the points approach orthogonal? or maybe mixing it up with this: http://www.knowyourmobile.com/blog/326530/htc_hd2_leo_lacks_universal_multitouch.html
...which clearly is untrue.
Real multitouch?
HTC HD2 have Synaptics Clearpad 2000 - work only with two fingers.
So there is no chance to see real multitouch on HD2 :/
Producent page : http://www.synaptics.com/sites/default/files/Product_Brief_CP2000_01_0.pdf
HTC Evo 4G have new touch panel - Atmel MaxTouch mxt224 - UNLIMITED FINGERS!
@UP :
This videos don't show new drivers . It's practically impossible to write new drivers by normal person.
Even with 2 fingers MT does not work as it should, actually HD2 is capable only to ,,pinch-and-zoom,, (as i said there are some work-arounds but you can.t compare evo or iphone MT with HD2)
adamvanner said:
Trying one of the multi touch test apps in Android, it works fine...
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Click to collapse
it works, thats about it. the biggest problem i've had so far is when the two touches are quite close on the y axis, e.g. using a multi-touch keyboard, when i type o immediately after a, sometimes the o is registered as k or l, because the os somehow merges the two touches vertically, so they seem to be on the same horizontal line (sorry if i didnt explain this properly, but i think the video i've attached above should make this clear)
One thing that I noticed when using MultiTouch Visualizer 2 (free on Market) was that touch point 1 and touch point 2 would flip when using any Nexus builds. It is most apparent when touching between diagonal corners. Desire builds will show the two touch points recognized correctly. If anyone is having problems with Nexus builds, try this out. It may be part of the reason for your multitouch problems.
frostmourne said:
it works, thats about it. the biggest problem i've had so far is when the two touches are quite close on the y axis, e.g. using a multi-touch keyboard, when i type o immediately after a, sometimes the o is registered as k or l, because the os somehow merges the two touches vertically, so they seem to be on the same horizontal line (sorry if i didnt explain this properly, but i think the video i've attached above should make this clear)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i get this too if i type very fast only it happenes to me everywhere on the keyboard
the hd2 doesn't have the clearpad 2000 , i asked htc themselves , it is used in nexus and desire not hd2 , that is why we don't have the axe problems that they face , and the 2 point multitouch is a driver limitation as htc said to me
I just tested the multitouch capabilities of the Atrix. It only registered two fingers? wow I have expected that it will recognize at least 4.....I don't play games on my phone so I don't worry too much but still it leaves a bitter taste...
You can't really use more than 2 fingers on a 4" screen anyway unless you have tiny hands.
Why would you ever need 4 point multitouch on the atrix to begin with... I mean of all the things to complain about this is the lame...
dumasymptote said:
Why would you ever need 4 point multitouch on the atrix to begin with... I mean of all the things to complain about this is the lame...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First of all. I wasn't complaining. I just wanted to test how accurate the multitouch is because I am a former N1 user and the multitouch sucked. It was more by curiosity that I tried 3 fingers. I had also a Nexus S and a MT4G and they could register several fingers. I thought that all newer touch sensors were multi finger enabled...
BTW I like my Atrix very much and the screen responsiveness is better than on my HTC devices that I had.
from the build.prop file, it says 2 max touches.
I tried to change the value to 4 but it still would only register 2.
wierd my Nexus S allowed 5
and htc desire HD allowed 4
i think newer screens would allow more, not that it matters
just curious
Is by brand is not HTC so don't expect the same I guess it does suck tho , oh well
I looked at the fixit site and they say it is the same sensor as in the Nexus S: Atmel mXT224. But this beast should have unlimited touch according to the manufacturer. Interesting maybe it is disabled software wise.
As a former N1 user, this touch issue is not important. What is important is it registers two independent touches and never confuses them.
Why is this important? Virtual game joystick and buttons. You will never use more than two touches for that.
Yes there are a few games or apps that can do more than two touches and it is disappointing to not have that enabled. But we will almost never notice this.
snlu178 said:
As a former N1 user, this touch issue is not important. What is important is it registers two independent touches and never confuses them.
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Click to collapse
This has already been proven for the Atrix (that it treats multitouch correctly); read about it a few days ago on this very forum.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=11540136&postcount=56
The Atrix has the same ATMEL multitouch sensor as the Nexus S, EVO, etc. So we know it can register at least 5 screen inputs at once. The apps you are using to test the multitouch input simply does not support the device (yet), and will need to be updated in order to for this phone to register multiple inputs beyond 2. This is simply a case of outdated software on new hardware.
novaIS350 said:
The Atrix has the same ATMEL multitouch sensor as the Nexus S, EVO, etc. So we know it can register at least 5 screen inputs at once. The apps you are using to test the multitouch input simply does not support the device (yet), and will need to be updated in order to for this phone to register multiple inputs beyond 2. This is simply a case of outdated software on new hardware.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The EVO would not register more than two touch points while operating on the stock kernel - and it was shown after rooting and unlocking the bootloader that there were two different touch panels - one that could do three points and one that could do 5.
So hopefully the OE kernel enables the use of the max number of touch points supported by the screen and it is just a matter of outdated software.
so far I have downloaded multitouch test, touch test, multitouch visualizer 2, and multitouch tester all from the android market and the results are always dual imput, not multi...
Am I doning something wrong is the fact that it will not register a third or more imputs... I thought we had up to 5 digit touch
Can anyone confirm or deny?
Thanks
more than 2 fingers, Apple will give u a hard time
majik8ball said:
so far I have downloaded multitouch test, touch test, multitouch visualizer 2, and multitouch tester all from the android market and the results are always dual imput, not multi...
Am I doning something wrong is the fact that it will not register a third or more imputs... I thought we had up to 5 digit touch
Can anyone confirm or deny?
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Use the app phonetester. That is the most accurate.
dumasymptote said:
Why would you ever need 4 point multitouch on the atrix to begin with... I mean of all the things to complain about this is the lame...
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Click to collapse
This is a terrible problem. I had to stop playing metroid zero mission on my old phone, because you couldn't press the r trigger, the up button, and the b button simultaneously, and you needed to (those 3 buttons when pressed shoot misslles up) in order to kill the boss.
has anyone tried some emulators, like snes or psx or gameboid? i wonder if it reconizes more than two touch imputs..??
ronan_zj said:
more than 2 fingers, Apple will give u a hard time
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Click to collapse
DING DING DING finally someone remembers...
http://www.tgdaily.com/business-and...-back-at-motorola-with-multitouch-patent-suit
Apple, Google and device makers have been embroiled in patent lawsuits since the first Android devices were being made. It still continues. If folks recall, there was huge controversy when I think the original Droid (or was it even earlier, the G1 maybe?) came out and didn't have multitouch in the US, but the international version did. This is why and it continues to be an issue.
What are you talking about... The ATT captivate with the froyo ROM does 5 fingers...
Galaxy s has 5 touch