Database Users

Update to windows mobile 6.5 and 7

Hello Xda
i am wondering are we can able to upgrade to windows mobile 6.5 in the future and windows mobile 7 too.
also can we will be able to use multi touch function on hd device?

Well on past models HTC have released new ROMs with newer version of WM, so you would think they would release new updated ROMs for the HD.
Unless they have another new phone on the horizon! You would think they would wanna sell 1 or 2 HD's first though before they release another 'high end' handset.

Philio25 said:
Well on past models HTC have released new ROMs with newer version of WM, so you would think they would release new updated ROMs for the HD.
Unless they have another new phone on the horizon! You would think they would wanna sell 1 or 2 HD's first though before they release another 'high end' handset.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You would think so wouldn't you but then there was not much time between the diamond/Pro & the HD!

tingsagwaan said:
You would think so wouldn't you but then there was not much time between the diamond/Pro & the HD!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yer was very close, I heard mixed reviews of the Diamond/Pro so held of upgrading, then the HD popped up on the HTC website so waited for the HD instead!

winmo 7 is said to have hardware requirement of 256MB ROM for the OS. so should be fine.
WinMo 6.5 will probably be less than 256MB ROM too so all go there too.
TOUCH HD should be well future-proofed for WinMo updates (official or otherwise), and then there's the possibility of Android too......

I think and hope that they will release at least an update to winmo 6.5 But I also think you shouldn't hope for Multitouch! If i'm not totally wrong the HD use a resisitiv Touchscreen and they are all not cabable of Multitouch, doesn't matter which Firmware is running

There is supposed to be a pre-WM7 release, not sure what else is included but supposedly it will have a better version of the IE browser.

I imagine this may depends on how much WM7 will be a change and needs adjustment from HTC. Like... what will be the touch 3D layer then ?
My bet is, the more we are expecting from WM7 as a breaktthrough in the series the less me may use it on this version of the Touch HD.

Eitum said:
I think and hope that they will release at least an update to winmo 6.5 But I also think you shouldn't hope for Multitouch! If i'm not totally wrong the HD use a resisitiv Touchscreen and they are all not cabable of Multitouch, doesn't matter which Firmware is running
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, correct me if I'm wrong here, but resistive technology is able to detect multiple touches - and even laptop trackpads can too, it's just that there's never been any software developed for it, and the operating system has just been hard coded to ignore multiple touch points and averaged them out to somewhere in the middle of where touched.It's pretty much a case of trackpad and touchscreen designers going "hmm what about if someone touches with two points at the same time? Ah well, there's no reason for doing that, let's just average it out"
Now, more realistically speaking, what exactly is the benefit of multi-touch on a mobile operating system? Pinch zooming? The zoom bar on Opera seems pretty simple and actually easier to use to me! Anything else? New Macbooks use gestures for Expose (no use for that on a mobile), two finger scrolling (about the only day-to-day useful feature, but again useless on a mobile device with finger scrolling anyway!) Two finger rotating maybe (um, accelerometer does that for you!) so anybody got any more suggestions for making this gimmick actually useable on a portable device that can't do it better already?

How can you play an instrument like a keyboard without multi touch!
While such a functionality might be an intesting one, it also seems like a step backwards in certain aspects.
Single handed operation is one of the essential aspects of mobile phones.

chaosdefinesorder said:
Actually, correct me if I'm wrong here, but resistive technology is able to detect multiple touches
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
would be fine

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3Owgcos_KY
multi-touch on windows mobile on HTC diamond.....just not in the way you may expect.

chaosdefinesorder said:
Actually, correct me if I'm wrong here, but resistive technology is able to detect multiple touches - and even laptop trackpads can too, it's just that there's never been any software developed for it, and the operating system has just been hard coded to ignore multiple touch points and averaged them out to somewhere in the middle of where touched.It's pretty much a case of trackpad and touchscreen designers going "hmm what about if someone touches with two points at the same time? Ah well, there's no reason for doing that, let's just average it out"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No correction needed, this is 100% true. Touchscreens do not register clicks, or anything similar, the screen itself is nothing but a sensor. The screen sensor layer on the HD screen registers any surface part of the screen on which the pressure exceeds a given threshold and the output is translated by a driver into anything the OS uses for manipulation. Thus, theoretically, ANY touchscreen device can be multitouch.
chaosdefinesorder said:
Now, more realistically speaking, what exactly is the benefit of multi-touch on a mobile operating system? Pinch zooming? The zoom bar on Opera seems pretty simple and actually easier to use to me! Anything else? New Macbooks use gestures for Expose (no use for that on a mobile), two finger scrolling (about the only day-to-day useful feature, but again useless on a mobile device with finger scrolling anyway!) Two finger rotating maybe (um, accelerometer does that for you!) so anybody got any more suggestions for making this gimmick actually useable on a portable device that can't do it better already?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Many of the more objective iPhone users have indicated that multitouch should not be overrated. It is nice for picture viewing, but in practical terms such as with a browser, it can be frustrating to see people zooming in to 100% with a swift doubletap while the iPhone users themselves are having to place two fingers on the screen, prevent accidentally using your nails, and having to squeeze/pinch until the page looks right.
BUT... I for one believe that more natural forms of input, i.e. a Keyboard, REQUIRES multitouch to function 100% intuitively. You simply do not need to release your finger from one key in order to press another, and a singletouch screen does require this. This causes lots of mistakes when typing too fast, you have to be over-articulate while typing.
Then again, I see most iPhone users typing with one thumb even when sitting down and holding the phone with both hands, because it's their first smartphone Not fair... WinMo pro's should have received this years ago
Oops I am straying from objectivity here...

Windows mobile 7 prebeta video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-i2jHEFdD4

Muhamed said:
Windows mobile 7 prebeta video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-i2jHEFdD4
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No it's not.

^ The interface looks new and cool...If its not WM 7...then what is it?

Nara-e-Mastana said:
^ The interface looks new and cool...If its not WM 7...then what is it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
from the youtube video info:
Device: HTC Touch (elf)
Skin name: Windows Mobile 7 i3
(i3 = 3 interface)
Skin version: QVGA
was it really that hard to read? the info was RIGHT THERE.

where to find
Out of curiosity where do we find this skin? all I can find is that youtube video. At the moment I'm getting a little bored with my current ROM and right now am looking for a new replacement look on my vogue.

chaosdefinesorder said:
Actually, correct me if I'm wrong here, but resistive technology is able to detect multiple touches - and even laptop trackpads can too, it's just that there's never been any software developed for it, and the operating system has just been hard coded to ignore multiple touch points and averaged them out to somewhere in the middle of where touched.It's pretty much a case of trackpad and touchscreen designers going "hmm what about if someone touches with two points at the same time? Ah well, there's no reason for doing that, let's just average it out"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just another confirmation of this. Synaptics, the maker of most touchpads for laptops, released driver updates for laptops to include multi-touch pinching, gestures, zooming, and Chiral(circular) scrolling - These were for touchpads that could previous only do what WinMo does with multiple touches.
So, as everyone said, you're right. If the manufacturers wanted to, they *could* give us multi-touch, but WinMo doesn't have an implementation of that anyway so it's useless.
http://blogs.msdn.com/windowsmobile/archive/2007/05/04/dogfood-doesn-t-always-taste-good.aspx

chaosdefinesorder said:
(...)
so anybody got any more suggestions for making this gimmick actually useable on a portable device that can't do it better already?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
specially for hd which has almost no hardware buttons multitouch would be a nice feature videogame-wise... like shooting while running or steering while accelerating...
btw check out the blackstone rom development forum a custom rom with winmo6.5 beta has been released already. Just for testing purposes only though.

four point multi touch on hd2 screen

can the hd2 screen do four point multi touch (uses more than 2 fingers) or it needs another hardware

hoss_n2 said:
can the hd2 screen do four point multi touch (uses more than 2 fingers) or it needs another hardware
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I do remember an app that someone wrote that showed the HD2 could recognize at least 3 different fingers on the screen at once.

hoss_n2 said:
can the hd2 screen do four point multi touch (uses more than 2 fingers) or it needs another hardware
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The hardware is there. There's just no software capable of it yet. I'd be suprised if we don't get full multi-touch recognition apps at some point. (For people that don't understand what that last sentance actually means, please note that when I say full multi-touch I do not mean more than 1. I mean as many as you want.)

johncmolyneux said:
The hardware is there. There's just no software capable of it yet. I'd be suprised if we don't get full multi-touch recognition apps at some point. (For people that don't understand what that last sentance actually means, please note that when I say full multi-touch I do not mean more than 1. I mean as many as you want.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
aren't there any games that supports full multitouch for windows mobile or we should wait for for the wp7
series

johnk1973 said:
I do remember an app that someone wrote that showed the HD2 could recognize at least 3 different fingers on the screen at once.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
and if you remembered this application please post it here

johncmolyneux said:
The hardware is there. There's just no software capable of it yet. I'd be suprised if we don't get full multi-touch recognition apps at some point. (For people that don't understand what that last sentance actually means, please note that when I say full multi-touch I do not mean more than 1. I mean as many as you want.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
why then there are posts saying that hd2 did HD2 uses the clearpad 2000 capactive touch screen which only supports 2 point multitouch

Humm im sure playing super mario on morph gear i can run and jump right+2 round keys

colinp said:
Humm im sure playing super mario on morph gear i can run and jump right+2 round keys
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
tis true, all my snes games support at least 2 points......

colinp said:
Humm im sure playing super mario on morph gear i can run and jump right+2 round keys
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
then you used more than 2 fingers on hd2

hoss_n2 said:
why then there are posts saying that hd2 did HD2 uses the clearpad 2000 capactive touch screen which only supports 2 point multitouch
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Clearpad 2000 are used on Nexus One and Android HTCs. Maybe HD2 uses another brand of touchscreen. I'm not sure though.

mdmhd2 said:
clearpad 2000 are used on nexus one and android htcs. Maybe hd2 uses another brand of touchscreen. I'm not sure though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if only we can make a track fingure application to use it and see

any new progress (sorry for bumping but i want answers)

scilor.com/hd2-leo-real-multitouch.html
found this, but i can't get it to actually respond to multiple fingers

You might have to soft reset to get it to work. It won't recognize more than two fingers as documented elsewhere on here or on his site, guess he never got around to doing a lower-level hook.

Or is there a way to upgrade hd2 clearpad 2000 to 3000?

According to the Visual Multitouch Test App from the Android market, I can only use up to two points. I don't know if this is a restriction caused by the Android port, or if the HD2's digitizer/screen can only support two points at once.

Does the HD2 have true multitouch?

One thing that worries me about the HD2 is the touchscreen sensors. If it's just the same ones as the Nexus One, Synaptics CP2000 with faulty multitouch, I might have to reconsider my options.

It does have true multitouch. Youtube it there are a bunch of videos out there.

After seeing YT videos, it looks like the same wonky multitouch in Nexus One. I'm disappointed

What is it you find "wonky" about it

No it's not. Some of the first run HD2s had some bad sensors, but we don't have any trouble crossing streams or whatever you N1 kids call it nowadays.

Like in this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTqh6u2OUFU
Sometimes it jumps all over the place.
And in here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hgrsq2-Vy7Q&feature=channel
It sometimes sticks when you're near the same axis.

The sticking is an auto-align in the driver.

Is there a way to turn that off? Does it support more than 2 fingers?

The limitation is currently the way the HTC code sends the data to other applications. It may be possible to get more points with a lower level hook, though I haven't yet gone that far as I want to investigate what can be done so far
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Back in Nov, guess they got lazy
Not sure about turning it off.

HD2 has multitouch, but can only recognize 2 touch points.
(WP7S min requirement is 4 touch points)

As you can see here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzhUzq6bTPg&feature=player_embedded
The N1 multi-touch issue is very pronounced and extremely different.
I just grabbed both Scilor and |3v5y apps for multitouch.
In the Scilor app (with two circles) you can see a clear snap when you are on the same x or y axis, but again this is driver behavior. Nothing unusual besides that.
In the |3v5y app, the x axis doesn't show any snapping, but crossing on the y axis (possibly a coding error?) swaps the 'paint stream' under the fingers, but still keeps with original positions.
This is similar to the droid on the youtube video above, where the blue and red dot might flip, but it doesn't lose track of what is being touched. Thus, not the same problem as the N1. Not the same sensor. Hurray, hurrah.

ahimberg said:
HD2 has multitouch, but can only recognize 2 touch points.
(WP7S min requirement is 4 touch points)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not true. HD2 2-point multitouch is a driver (soft) limitation, if you read what I just quoted.

On that note does anyone know what sensor HD2 uses?

Multi-Touch problem in Nexus S?

I found that sometime when you touch two points at the same time, the phone doesn't response as expected. The screen only detect one point being pressed. This happens quite often and I am wondering if it is my phone's issue.
You can notice the problem easily when playing "Slice It".

hungyip84 said:
I found that sometime when you touch two points at the same time, the phone doesn't response as expected. The screen only detect one point being pressed. This happens quite often and I am wondering if it is my phone's issue.
You can notice the problem easily when playing "Slice It".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Multi touch is app dependent, some apps dont support it, open up google maps and pinch to zoom

Multi touch works fine for me. Nothing like the shennaigans of the Nexus One. Downloaded multitouch visulaizer 2 - my touch screen can detect 5 points of touch at once!
Edit - I see what you mean on sliceit. Sometimes if you put down 2 fingers simultaneously, it will lose the track on one of the fingers. All you have to do is lift that finger and put it back down again and it regains track.

hungyip84 said:
I found that sometime when you touch two points at the same time, the phone doesn't response as expected. The screen only detect one point being pressed. This happens quite often and I am wondering if it is my phone's issue.
You can notice the problem easily when playing "Slice It".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I noticed that with Slice It! too and was messing around investigating it. Also, I think it's the app's issue, since I've never had any other problems with multi-touch anywhere else.

sound like more of a bug with some specific Apps rather than a hardware issue.
as the multitouch test apps works just fine, if it were a hardware problem those test apps should be failing as well.

I don't know if you guys remember, but when the N1 got its first update to enable "multitouch", there was a lot of speculation that it wasn't true multitouch as Apple has it patented. I wonder if they're continuing on that same track or whether Google said screw Apple and dropped it in anyway.

allen099 said:
I don't know if you guys remember, but when the N1 got its first update to enable "multitouch", there was a lot of speculation that it wasn't true multitouch as Apple has it patented. I wonder if they're continuing on that same track or whether Google said screw Apple and dropped it in anyway.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No. back then they used thinkpad2000 or something like that. forgot the same. wasnt real one " much like what Sony is doing with xperia x10" right now
the nexus s has true multi touch.

On the subject do any of you guys have problems with zoom in your photo galleries. When ever i try to pinch to zoom in for example to someones face it will start to zoom somewhere else. Don't know if its just my phone or everyones.

I tried to do the multi touch test using multi touch visualizer and multi touch tester. In multi touch tester, it only detect one touch point when i touch two points at the same time. In multi touch visualizer, it detect two touch points but the second point has a 1-2 second delay when i do the same test. I did the same test using Droid and galaxy s and they don't have the problem mentioned...any thought?
Sent from my Nexus S using XDA App

Slightly off topic, but in the Gallery app in the Album thumbnail section, you can two-finger press an album and spread your fingers and it'll give you a mini-slide show right there. Very impressive.

hungyip84 said:
I tried to do the multi touch test using multi touch visualizer and multi touch tester. In multi touch tester, it only detect one touch point when i touch two points at the same time. In multi touch visualizer, it detect two touch points but the second point has a 1-2 second delay when i do the same test. I did the same test using Droid and galaxy s and they don't have the problem mentioned...any thought?
Sent from my Nexus S using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i never heard of a screen that has a multi touch problem as in hardware issue.
but try different nexus S. if its doing the same thing then your phone is fine.

allen099 said:
I don't know if you guys remember, but when the N1 got its first update to enable "multitouch", there was a lot of speculation that it wasn't true multitouch as Apple has it patented. I wonder if they're continuing on that same track or whether Google said screw Apple and dropped it in anyway.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Apple patented a specific method for implementing multi-touch... part of it is UI, which was only granted in the US, and part was technical... in either case, there are new ways of doing multi touch in technical terms, and as for UI Apple doesn't have a leg to stand on when it comes to "generic" actions like pinch to zoom, et al.

Some ppl in thus thread also experience the same problem. To me this is not a acceptable multi touch experience. I hope this can be fixed by an firmware update.
Sent from my Nexus S using XDA App

Atrix 4G- just two fingers multi touch?

I just tested the multitouch capabilities of the Atrix. It only registered two fingers? wow I have expected that it will recognize at least 4.....I don't play games on my phone so I don't worry too much but still it leaves a bitter taste...

You can't really use more than 2 fingers on a 4" screen anyway unless you have tiny hands.

Why would you ever need 4 point multitouch on the atrix to begin with... I mean of all the things to complain about this is the lame...

dumasymptote said:
Why would you ever need 4 point multitouch on the atrix to begin with... I mean of all the things to complain about this is the lame...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First of all. I wasn't complaining. I just wanted to test how accurate the multitouch is because I am a former N1 user and the multitouch sucked. It was more by curiosity that I tried 3 fingers. I had also a Nexus S and a MT4G and they could register several fingers. I thought that all newer touch sensors were multi finger enabled...
BTW I like my Atrix very much and the screen responsiveness is better than on my HTC devices that I had.

from the build.prop file, it says 2 max touches.
I tried to change the value to 4 but it still would only register 2.

wierd my Nexus S allowed 5
and htc desire HD allowed 4
i think newer screens would allow more, not that it matters
just curious

Is by brand is not HTC so don't expect the same I guess it does suck tho , oh well

I looked at the fixit site and they say it is the same sensor as in the Nexus S: Atmel mXT224. But this beast should have unlimited touch according to the manufacturer. Interesting maybe it is disabled software wise.

As a former N1 user, this touch issue is not important. What is important is it registers two independent touches and never confuses them.
Why is this important? Virtual game joystick and buttons. You will never use more than two touches for that.
Yes there are a few games or apps that can do more than two touches and it is disappointing to not have that enabled. But we will almost never notice this.

snlu178 said:
As a former N1 user, this touch issue is not important. What is important is it registers two independent touches and never confuses them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This has already been proven for the Atrix (that it treats multitouch correctly); read about it a few days ago on this very forum.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=11540136&postcount=56

The Atrix has the same ATMEL multitouch sensor as the Nexus S, EVO, etc. So we know it can register at least 5 screen inputs at once. The apps you are using to test the multitouch input simply does not support the device (yet), and will need to be updated in order to for this phone to register multiple inputs beyond 2. This is simply a case of outdated software on new hardware.

novaIS350 said:
The Atrix has the same ATMEL multitouch sensor as the Nexus S, EVO, etc. So we know it can register at least 5 screen inputs at once. The apps you are using to test the multitouch input simply does not support the device (yet), and will need to be updated in order to for this phone to register multiple inputs beyond 2. This is simply a case of outdated software on new hardware.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The EVO would not register more than two touch points while operating on the stock kernel - and it was shown after rooting and unlocking the bootloader that there were two different touch panels - one that could do three points and one that could do 5.
So hopefully the OE kernel enables the use of the max number of touch points supported by the screen and it is just a matter of outdated software.

so far I have downloaded multitouch test, touch test, multitouch visualizer 2, and multitouch tester all from the android market and the results are always dual imput, not multi...
Am I doning something wrong is the fact that it will not register a third or more imputs... I thought we had up to 5 digit touch
Can anyone confirm or deny?
Thanks

more than 2 fingers, Apple will give u a hard time

majik8ball said:
so far I have downloaded multitouch test, touch test, multitouch visualizer 2, and multitouch tester all from the android market and the results are always dual imput, not multi...
Am I doning something wrong is the fact that it will not register a third or more imputs... I thought we had up to 5 digit touch
Can anyone confirm or deny?
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Use the app phonetester. That is the most accurate.

dumasymptote said:
Why would you ever need 4 point multitouch on the atrix to begin with... I mean of all the things to complain about this is the lame...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is a terrible problem. I had to stop playing metroid zero mission on my old phone, because you couldn't press the r trigger, the up button, and the b button simultaneously, and you needed to (those 3 buttons when pressed shoot misslles up) in order to kill the boss.

has anyone tried some emulators, like snes or psx or gameboid? i wonder if it reconizes more than two touch imputs..??

ronan_zj said:
more than 2 fingers, Apple will give u a hard time
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
DING DING DING finally someone remembers...
http://www.tgdaily.com/business-and...-back-at-motorola-with-multitouch-patent-suit
Apple, Google and device makers have been embroiled in patent lawsuits since the first Android devices were being made. It still continues. If folks recall, there was huge controversy when I think the original Droid (or was it even earlier, the G1 maybe?) came out and didn't have multitouch in the US, but the international version did. This is why and it continues to be an issue.

What are you talking about... The ATT captivate with the froyo ROM does 5 fingers...

Galaxy s has 5 touch