Hi Guys,
Just wanted to know from those who are moving from HD to HD2.. how are you guys coping without a stylus??
I am so much in a habit to pull out the stylus from the blackstone...
Are the OK and the X easy to press... scroll bar??
Thanks guys!!
Having moved from a HD to a HD2 about six weeks ago (with 1st batch from Clove Tech) I have one reply for you "what's a stylus ?"
Seriously, it's very good. I have moved to using the Resco keyboard as the standard one is too sensitive and sometimes I use Swype which is amazingly accurate.
So far, I only miss the little metal pointy thing for SPB finance (vintage 2008) which really needs a stylus for operation. But, I'm now using http://sites.google.com/site/maximusmobileproject/Current-Apps/winmoFinance which seems a good alternative.
So, here's one delighted user that the stylus is gone. Second-hand HD with spare stylus anyone ?
Never used my stylus on my HD so not missing it at all. The down arrows in certain menus are a little tricky to operate some times (like changing the text message notification) but if you get the screen alignment right then you get it used where to press. But then, that's the OS problem rather than the phone so when WM7 comes along hopefully it'll all be great!
Moved from a Xperia, which is not useable without stylus, to HD2.
No problem.
well, just fine sometimes I hit the wrong thing, but now I'm adjusted to the sensitivity, I feel that I can text easier than on my iphone. I don't notice anything in the GUI that winmob was designed for a stylus. well,not really, though
Totally agree with the above, and I too came from a HD to a HD2, but had a very similar ROM on the HD, and had already got that as finger friendly as possible, so not much of a transition.
With respect to one particular question...
prateekgujral said:
scroll bar??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh they're actually fun to use! It goes wider where you put your thumb on it, so it's actually easier to use than it was with a stylus!
Sounds good.. thanks
I came to the HD2, from an Athena (X7500) for me the lack of a stylus has turned out to be a big issue*, I cannot enter data reliability nor use applications such as Cash Organizer or Pocket Informant reliably. It is a fine media phone though. I rather hope that the rumoured HTC patented stylus may be a help here
*(This is an opinion, because it may differ from other peoples opinion, it does not make me a Troll, Stupid, or a member of a vast anti-Windows-Mobile conspracy)
Coming from a Kaiser to Leo I thought I would miss both hardware keyboard and stylus, truth is I have missed neither. My typing speed is still not as quick but is getting better all the time.
I had an HTC Touch and then an MDA Compact IV (HTC Diamond). Of course, I still go for the stylus (conditioned reflex) but always realise that I really do not need it. I was very apprehensive when I ordered the HD2 but the apprehension vanished when I tried to use it without the stylus. No need for it at all. I even ported my Sudoku Mastersoft 2.0 and play it every time with no problem! It's true that, eventually, you come across bits that need a stylus and where finger pinching does not work, but that's once every 99 times you use the HD2. Fear not. Go for it. And take advantage of all the .cabs available here. I dowloaded a dozen of them, so had no need to touch the registry.
I've been using Touch Pro for more than a year now. After around 7 months I stopped using the stylus completely, even for Solitare. Without any problems.
HD2 is going to come to me next week and there is no way it could be worce, since it has a capacitive and huuuuuge screen.
Don't worry / don't hesitate to get one.
Using HD2 for 3 weeks. At first I thought I'd go to buy the HD2 stylus as soon as it is available, but now I have second thoughts.
Yes, it is much easier to work with a stylus. Even after practice, the finger is not as precise. Working with Listpro is a really difficult when I have narrow columns that shows exactly a checkbox. I hope listpro will soon release its finger friendly version, or another product will attract me to leave listpro.
I think many "old" applications will have similar troubles. Even some of the Windows screen (like the Connections setting screen) have small UI elements and are not really finger friendly. I can only hope things will improve in the future.
At first, the capacitive screen (and thus the lack of stylus) was a factor that nearly drove me to buy Omnia II instead of HD2. I still am not convinced whether one of these two devices is better than the other, but I heard the WM7 is going to be capacitve and so finger is the future.
PS: for legacy applications, it is very difficult to control the scroll bar when the list is long. When the list is short (say 100 entries), the finger sized scroll button is rather good to use. For big pages (say 300 entries, or the help file of swype), I found that it is nearly impossible to scroll. The list keep jumping around uncontrollably. For big lists, I am forced to use the swype page up page down buttons.
Within Sense UI it is very easy to use finger-only. Once you jump into WM it can get difficult to hit certain lists/buttons.
I have my HD2 for about38 days already. In the first week I was hunting high and low for a stylus and eventually bought 2 types ( meant for iphone). However I found is a waste of money as it takes a lot of hard presses to get the stylus working well; so both stylus gone into the trash can. Then I realized I just need to "exercise" my fingers to make best use of it. I am proud to say now I do not miss the stylus and I find that my finger presses had improved dramatically and accuracy of keys input is 99.99 % and pretty fast. I was on Swype for keyboard input for about 2 weeks ( a fantastic piece of software - highly recommended). However now I go back to use the default touch input for normal use as I have now find it very easy to use now. I now swype only for cases needing lots of data input .
Has the HTC HD2 Capacitive Stylus been released yet ?
I see it's being advertised here:
http://www.clove.co.uk/viewProduct.aspx?product=83E47B82-89E5-4C33-95D5-84F7AE3C3F50
no problem without stylus at all if somebedy have problems with any app, you can add this app to pinch to zoom whitelist, and than just zoom in and click on it
i sometimes miss my stylus, there is really a problem but others advantages of finger scrolling make no turning back! i have accepted the inconveniences!
can't play All Mobile Minesweeper anymore... and many other games...
Moved from the SE X1 where I did use my finger for some things (even typing with FingerKeyboard - brilliant piece of software). Haven't missed the stylus much except for using TotalCommander which can be a real pain!
Most of the time it is OK. But I wish there was an accurate stylus. All Mobile Mines was a favourite of mine. I find Total Commander impossible to use. Data on the Run 5 (a database app I use to record all my books) is a swine to use, as it is designed for stylus. Some apps do not show a scroll bar that expands, so are very difficult (Opera for one!) Zooming in can be hit and miss, and can zoom back out when you do not want it to.
Keyboard is OK (but I was quicker on hx4700) when desensitised (I use BsB 1.6).
Sense UI is very clever, but the icons are huge "off the shelf" and waste so much space.
I really miss easy access to task manager; on my hx4700 I used Magic Button but it is not happy with WM6.5, and I don't want more memory hoggers running. The small icons it creates for runing programs are too easy to miss-hit, and WM6.5 could not show as many as WM2003SE, so it was pointless using it. Now I have Task Manager shortcut in my home screen to switch between progs. I have not found a 16 icon home screen fix that works for me, but it is to my mind a must.
Related
Everywhere is announced the HD is great because of its multimedia functions.
For myself I have NO USE for multimedia (except taking good pictures for my work). What I need is:
a) a big screen for reading email, html email and so on
b) a big screen for my pocket office excel sheets (the more row/column I can see the better)
c) a touch keyboard not too small
d) a slim and compact device (I think that this eliminates devices with phisical keyboard)
e) a device that fits comfortably in your pocket: doesn't weight "a lot"
f) the best quality possible for pictures, the ideal would be that it can take pictures of documents and that later you are able to actually read them, looking at the picture taken
g) gps included
h) EXCELLENT battery consumption: so that with a "normal" use you can EASILY arrive at night without the need of having chargers all over (car/house/office)
In your opinion is the Touch HD good for the purpose? Maybe something else on the market is better?
Thanks for any comment.
P.S. so far I had Qtek 1010, 2020, Universal (in my opinion the WORST phone I had because of its bulky size and short battery life), Tytn, Cruise.
It's absolutely definitely the best thing you can buy for business if you don't need a qwerty keyboard.
As you mentioned before it has a big screen for web, email and office and it's still slim and light enough to fit in your pocket.
Windows Mobile is the only OS to choose for business (besides Blackberry) and the HD has the second best camera in a Windows Mobile phone which is absolutely sufficient for taking pictures of documents.
There's no better device (if you don't need a querty keyboard).
Hi claudioita,
I have exactly the same needs, and I am still unsure whether to go for the Xperia X1 or the Touch HD. I like the big display and the thinner device, but I think that TouchFlo will be quite annoying after a while (I prefer to see the time/date and my next appointments when I look at my device, not windscreen wipers ...). The X1 seems to be more flexible in installing other panels. On the other hand, it is not so flat ...
Well, at least here in Germany both devices are not available at the moment, so I think we have to wait and see if we can get hands on them once they appear in the stores around.
Eriol
You can disable TouchFlo if you don't linke it but I think it's the best interface IMHO even better than the iPhone.
Eriol said:
Hi claudioita,
I have exactly the same needs, and I am still unsure whether to go for the Xperia X1 or the Touch HD. I like the big display and the thinner device, but I think that TouchFlo will be quite annoying after a while (I prefer to see the time/date and my next appointments when I look at my device, not windscreen wipers ...). The X1 seems to be more flexible in installing other panels. On the other hand, it is not so flat ...
Well, at least here in Germany both devices are not available at the moment, so I think we have to wait and see if we can get hands on them once they appear in the stores around.
Eriol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
"I prefer to see the time/date and my next appointments when I look at my device"
The Touchflo Homescreen shows exactly that. and if you scroll down to switch to the advanced home screen, the clock becomes smaller and the list bigger, so you will see even more appointments. Alsom the screen on the X1 is smaller and as far as i have seen, you will have to use the stylus quite often In that case, the Touch HD is much better. The bigger Screen is also good when working on excel sheets and more. Also, the X1 is said to be a bit laggy sometimes when switching to landscape mode and back. I really recommend that you watch some videos about the interface.
oh and: there is a new "customize tab" feature on the HD. so you may be able to delete tabs and rearrange them
its a good phone but its based on the same hardware as the Diamond, so do a bit of guess work and some math and its power consumption can only be worse than the diamond, so unless battery is proportionaly larger its going to suck. I dont believe its going to have a larger battery than say around 1350 so to put it simply it'll last about 2 hours less than the touch Pro...
dazza9075 said:
its a good phone but its based on the same hardware as the Diamond, so do a bit of guess work and some math and its power consumption can only be worse than the diamond, so unless battery is proportionaly larger its going to suck. I dont believe its going to have a larger battery than say around 1350 so to put it simply it'll last about 2 hours less than the touch Pro...
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Click to collapse
Yep.
Exactly what I think. 3.8inch with that resolution ..... I won't buy it first. Will wait 1 or 2 months and check review on power consumption
Why not use a fold -up keyboard instead. You can leave in your briefcase and only take out when needed. This combination will ensure portability- thin and lightweight. Unlike the Uni which I also use.
Otherwise we should wait for the HTC Omni - if it will ever be launched!
Calli
calli said:
Why not use a fold -up keyboard instead. You can leave in your briefcase and only take out when needed. This combination will ensure portability- thin and lightweight. Unlike the Uni which I also use.
Otherwise we should wait for the HTC Omni - if it will ever be launched!
Calli
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your comments wiil be greatly appreciated
Calli
I have a bluetooth keyboard with my current PDA and will pass this onto the HD when it arrives. It is (for me) ideal, the phone is that bit smaller and I have almost full full-size keyboard when I need too.
claudioita said:
Yep.
Exactly what I think. 3.8inch with that resolution ..... I won't buy it first. Will wait 1 or 2 months and check review on power consumption
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am wondering the same since i heard of this device. But, i will definitly get this phone. I often heard that the diamond had a very bad battery life, but on the other hand, i have got an LG Viewty at the moment. This phone is said to have a very very bad battery. people even said it only lasts around 2 days without doing that much. many people wrote a bad review about this on amazon.
strangely, i use the viewty on a daily basis, for checking mails and writing sms or doing calls. so i even use hsdpa at least 2 or three times a day. and i can get a battery life of around a week!
But ofcourse, if i keep running on hsdpa the whole day, by browsing the net for hours for example i get have to plug it in the next day.
i really think that many people just use their mobilephones without ever thinking how much battery life is trained away, when they use gps, wlan and more the whole day. i am pretty sure that, with a normal usage, i can at least get a week or more out of the HD, as it has a better battery and higher standby and usage time as my viewty has got now.
btw, as you mentioned bluetooth keyboards.
are there any good devices out there? can you recommend some?
i am planning to use my Dinovo Mini for my Touch HD (i know it works) but maybe there are better keyboards out there
Business usability of soft keyboard
Hi,
I follow the discussions on a "Touch HD pro" version, but I am convinced that this would not be a good deal: The Touch HD's size is acceptable because it is really flat. A Touch HD pro would be at least as thick as an Xperia X1 or Touch pro. Thus, the whole device would be heavy and - for many users, I am sure - too big in all dimensions.
I wonder why all the videos we can see do not show the progress of a software keyboard in Toch HD. They all mention that "there is a software keyboard", but -well - we expect tghis, don't we? But: How usable is it?
I writing this because I am still unsure about Xperia X1, Touch HD (and may be Touch Pro). I really need a good argument for the keyboard question because I will need it quite regularly for emails. On the other hand, the Touch HD beats the Xperia in many other aspects ...
What do you guys think or know about the software keyboard?
Eriol
Eriol said:
Hi,
I follow the discussions on a "Touch HD pro" version, but I am convinced that this would not be a good deal: The Touch HD's size is acceptable because it is really flat. A Touch HD pro would be at least as thick as an Xperia X1 or Touch pro. Thus, the whole device would be heavy and - for many users, I am sure - too big in all dimensions.
I wonder why all the videos we can see do not show the progress of a software keyboard in Toch HD. They all mention that "there is a software keyboard", but -well - we expect tghis, don't we? But: How usable is it?
I writing this because I am still unsure about Xperia X1, Touch HD (and may be Touch Pro). I really need a good argument for the keyboard question because I will need it quite regularly for emails. On the other hand, the Touch HD beats the Xperia in many other aspects ...
What do you guys think or know about the software keyboard?
Eriol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
at the moment no one has the HD so noone can comment on this. biut irecommend that you go to youtube and look at some tests there. you can see how the keyboard looks and compare it to the diamond videos
Raziel1 said:
at the moment no one has the HD so noone can comment on this. biut irecommend that you go to youtube and look at some tests there. you can see how the keyboard looks and compare it to the diamond videos
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for this answer, well, I watched every and all videos about the HD on Youttube and other sites and in all avaliable languages (...). But I did not see any video that shows the soft keyboard in use (and esp. in landscape mode). All reviews I have seen stress the multimedia contents and the TouchFlo3D. For day-to-day business use, the keyboard is quite important, though. And I expect that there can be a quite useful soft keyboard implementation with such a big screen.
(BTW: Reading this forum, there are a lot of comments that make me think that the one or other must have seen the HD before posting comments! Some know many details that they can only know after having hands on the Touch HD!)
Eriol
Eriol said:
Thanks for this answer, well, I watched every and all videos about the HD on Youttube and other sites and in all avaliable languages (...). But I did not see any video that shows the soft keyboard in use (and esp. in landscape mode). All reviews I have seen stress the multimedia contents and the TouchFlo3D. For day-to-day business use, the keyboard is quite important, though. And I expect that there can be a quite useful soft keyboard implementation with such a big screen.
(BTW: Reading this forum, there are a lot of comments that make me think that the one or other must have seen the HD before posting comments! Some know many details that they can only know after having hands on the Touch HD!)
Eriol
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Click to collapse
i don't think so. all the details are out there since weeks. full hardware specs and all the features. there are many videos which show the keyboard and explain it a bit. but as it is the same as on the diamond or touch pro, theres no real change. i hope that you know that you can't use the keyboard in landscape mode. only if you install Gsen or Gyrator or how it's called.
Raziel1 said:
... i hope that you know that you can't use the keyboard in landscape mode. only if you install Gsen or Gyrator or how it's called.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Heck, no - I did not know that. I have a HTC Wizard at the moment running on WM6 and I surely can use the software keyboard in landscape mode with it (this also worked with WM5)! (Even though I do not use it because the Wizard has a hardware kbrd in landscape mode ...)
Why did they change this???
Eriol
Eriol said:
Heck, no - I did not know that. I have a HTC Wizard at the moment running on WM6 and I surely can use the software keyboard in landscape mode with it (this also worked with WM5)! (Even though I do not use it because the Wizard has a hardware kbrd in landscape mode ...)
Why did they change this???
Eriol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that was also in the diamond or pro. switching to landscape mode by using the g-sensor is only possible in opera and when viewing pictures. it should be possible to do it manually in windows, so what i ment was switching by using the sensor in touchflo3d. the good news is, that there are apps out like Gsen which activate full rotation in any app and window
Raziel1 said:
that was also in the diamond or pro. switching to landscape mode by using the g-sensor is only possible in opera and when viewing pictures. it should be possible to do it manually in windows, so what i ment was switching by using the sensor in touchflo3d. the good news is, that there are apps out like Gsen which activate full rotation in any app and window
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, understand ... so, installing Gsen and probably using a bluetooth keyboard if neccessary will make this device a good business solution (lack of TV-Out is not an issues to me as my experience is that in case of a presentation there will always be someone with a notebook around).
Eriol
Some specs show that there is a TV out. Far more impressive doing a presentation using your PDA though. I realy think that a software and a protable Stowaway keyboard is the way to go.
Calli
While I absolutely LOVE the TouchFLO interface, it's nearly impossible to navigate using the fingers. I always have to use my nail/ stylus. Is it just mine, or is it the same everywhere?
Also, WM6.1 is very un-finger friendly. It's a pain, especially the contacts and the messages.
Is there a ROM/similar available which completely transforms the whole thing, making it more finger friendly?
You may just need to get used to it. I used to have a similar problem with GTA Chinatown Wars on the DS, where I'd have to use my thumbnail (or in extreme cases get out the stylus) to do some of the touchscreen functions. After a while though I got better, and now I have no trouble mashing my thumb and controlling it. Same with TouchFLO, except I never had any trouble with it to begin with.
Edit: As for Windows Mobile, you're right. The native WM interface isn't very finger friendly on its own, especially on a tiny screen like the Touch has.
Well, it depends on how you look at it.
I lost my stylus 2 weeks back and I also lived with my touch, using my fingernails. (with a screen protector, of course )
HTC have created lots of modifications to Windows Mobile to enhance its finger friendliness.
while the gigantic 4.3" helps in making everything finger (or even foot) friendly, its still a windows mobile device. and many of the apps require some precision are written to be used with a stylus. i cant imagine using "Pocket Artist" or copy and pasting text using my finger on a WM device.
You guys think that this will be a problem with this device.
it's not a problem on the iphone, why should it be a problem on a device with a bigger screen? I don't remember ever using the stylus on my HD...never needed it. I don't expect I'll need it on this device either
twisted-pixel said:
it's not a problem on the iphone, why should it be a problem on a device with a bigger screen?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because iPhone applications are written on the assumption that they are being used on an iPhone without a stylus. Plenty of Windows Mobile apps are written on the assumption that you are using a stylus; this includes a number of utilities built into the operating system.
I used the Leo ROM on my Xperia X1 and can say as long as you stay inside windows (or said different inside the shipped software) you won't get any problems, its very finger friendly and I never went down to an old wm 6 skin. concerns are only there if you want to use some 3rd party software. there might be a problem with finger usage like said above or somewhere else as they don't have to be finger optimized.
Personally - I think it will be fine. Also with later revisions of WM6.5 and then hopefully WM7 I think the phone will get easier IF there are any issues. The issues will only occur when you come out of the HTC Sense layer anyway, which won't be that often.
I thought HTC patented the capacitive stylus?
Lack of stylus will not be a issue at all with that huge screen...I think. We see when its in our hands. Hope it will be very soon
I'm using a TyTN II and almost never dig out the stylus. Over time I moved to apps that were finger friendly. And with the current design trends, I'm guessing even more apps will become available that don't require a stylus.
-Bob-
12aon said:
I thought HTC patented the capacitive stylus?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
afaik yes but on no pics can you find where it is placed i think and then they will probably release it with a largish price tag like the car dock...
All of you who are using resistive screens with LEO ROM, your impressions are worthless (regarding how the LEO ROM will behave on the real HD2) because resistive screens are more accurate than capacitive screens, even if you use just your finger (not to mention you can still use fingernail with resistive).
HTC said that since the LEO has capacitive screen, it can not operate well without the new MANILA, and for that reason, they said that they didn't give an option to disable MANILA, and went even further to say that if some programer will try to disable it, they did everything they could in order for him to find it "very challenging".
Noam23 said:
All of you who are using resistive screens with LEO ROM, your impressions are worthless (regarding how the LEO ROM will behave on the real HD2) because resistive screens are more accurate than capacitive screens, even if you use just your finger (not to mention you can still use fingernail with resistive).
HTC said that since the LEO has capacitive screen, it can not operate well without the new MANILA, and for that reason, they said that they didn't give an option to disable MANILA, and went even further to say that if some programer will try to disable it, they did everything they could in order for him to find it "very challenging".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What makes you say this? There have been plenty off leo roms out that seem to leave that function intact
Noam23 said:
All of you who are using resistive screens with LEO ROM, your impressions are worthless (regarding how the LEO ROM will behave on the real HD2) because resistive screens are more accurate than capacitive screens, even if you use just your finger (not to mention you can still use fingernail with resistive).
HTC said that since the LEO has capacitive screen, it can not operate well without the new MANILA, and for that reason, they said that they didn't give an option to disable MANILA, and went even further to say that if some programer will try to disable it, they did everything they could in order for him to find it "very challenging".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't use my Touch Diamond's stylus, and the Touch Diamond has a much smaller screen so I think the huge screen of the HD2, coupled with the capacitive touch sensivity, should be fine.
And if that second bit is true, I'm surprised because that means they went to the trouble of making it easy to disable TouchFLO 3D and TouchFLO on older devices...
And if that second bit is true, I'm surprised because that means they went to the trouble of making it easy to disable TouchFLO 3D and TouchFLO on older devices...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True, because the TouchFLO 3D and TouchFLO were sold on devices with *resistive* screens, these devices can handle Windows Mobile screens without any trouble. The HD2 on the other hand has the capacitive screen, and HTC knows that operating the WM UI with such device is going to be a problem, such a problem that no one even believe capacitive will reach WM before version 7.0, yet HTC came with the MANILA 2.5 solution, so I can very much understand them when they say they don't want you to defeat MANILA 2.5.
O2 are offering me this phone as an upgrade. I need a decent keyboard and am loathed to part with my TP2!
Does anyone have any experience of using any of the screen "keyboards" for emails etc? If so, can it really replace the hardware keyboard?
May be a silly question, I don`t know much about different screen types but cant you just use another stylus instead of your finger? I always have a pen/stylus in my pocket at work and never use the provided stylus with my HD
kjt57 said:
May be a silly question, I don`t know much about different screen types but cant you just use another stylus instead of your finger? I always have a pen/stylus in my pocket at work and never use the provided stylus with my HD
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You need a special kind of stylus for capacitive screens.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NEW-CAPACITIV...ries_MobilePhoneBatteries?hash=item2ea897a251
Noam23 said:
All of you who are using resistive screens with LEO ROM, your impressions are worthless (regarding how the LEO ROM will behave on the real HD2) because resistive screens are more accurate than capacitive screens, even if you use just your finger (not to mention you can still use fingernail with resistive).
HTC said that since the LEO has capacitive screen, it can not operate well without the new MANILA, and for that reason, they said that they didn't give an option to disable MANILA, and went even further to say that if some programer will try to disable it, they did everything they could in order for him to find it "very challenging".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Very interesting information Noam23. Being able to use a phone effectively with your finger most of the time when you have to use your finger all of the time is not acceptable to me.
I also have the same issue mentioned in your other post where I would want to turn off Manila/HTC-Sense. The fact that they've tried to prevent this proves how unusable WM6.5 is on a capacitive screen.
Oh well, that's just saved me a lot of money!
Can't help but think everyone is being a little binary here
The UI is the launch pad for the device ... It will be possible to disable TouchFlo3D. HTC were probably saying this to detract people from the ever present concerns with exposure to the native OS UI.
All the other apps you use on the device have their own UI. Once launched, it is almost (back to that in a moment) irrelevant what the OS UI is. The concern will be if those desktop class apps we love on WM in spite of WM itself are not easy to use on the HD2.
I don't see many apps I have that will be a problem ... infact, the only ones would be Resco Explorer, utilities like SKtools, data entry tools like Softmaker Office and PhatNotes (although I'll probably be ok with the on screen keyboard given the capacitive touch and size of display ... and for laptop 'replacement' use, I'll use the BT Stowaway keyboard and mouse) and drawing tools .... which some I'm sure want .... I personally (and therefore subjective) have never used them ... so it isn't an issue for me.
It is true to say that PI and Flexmail could do with more focus on touch ... and given the iPhone apps Alex was working on (I'm a little out of date) ... I'm sure that will come soon.
Also .. I'm not sure if it waning enthusiasm or a change of focus ... but having used PI extensively for years ... when using Mobile Shell 3 and things like PocketBreeze, I realised I rarely went to PI any more .... With FlexMail ... it is a superb product ... but it always had problems with storage ... and after the WM client supported HTML ... it was less needed ... with TF3D ... again ... makes it even easier ... so PI will remain for micro text month view and tasks ... FM will remain for when I need to do complex searches of mail (a real weakness of the native clients on all phones), but I will rarely touch them in normal daily use.
So ... although I resisted the 'hype' around capacitive ... and thought a stylus would always be needed .... in practice ... I'd like to get an HTC capacitive stylus if it ever makes it off the drawing board ... but I doubt I'll really need one.
I used to always want the keyboard ... but after having 4 TyTNs and 3 TyTNIIs respectively before I got one that didn't have some keyboard or mech / ribbon issue .... and the TP2 that had the loose mech issue ... I finally decided I wanted to simplify all mechanical bits ... so I'm looking forward to the HD2. I like others think the 5 buttons + the rocker will allow aebutton+ control where needed in older games.
And the benefit to the Capacitive screen for me will be a smoother more responsive touch (I'm not commenting of accuracy ... because no one that hasn't used it can really comment ... and they certainly can't comment on what it maybe like if and when the HTC Stylus comes out ... if it does) .... and it should also be less reflective ... and therefore clearer in different light conditions ... and it will have a harder surface ... which will (to me) feel better.
So in summary ... given TF3D or MS3.5 will cover most of the OS UI requirements ... as well as the front end to native apps which are touch optimised and most of the big apps I will use will be fine with their own UI ... I think the HD2 with it's display and external simplicity has hit the market at the right time and will in practise be more than fine for everyone happy with a device this size that doesn't need drawing apps on day one.
I also suspect that the internal 512M + a good fast 16 or 32 GB MicroSDHC will more than meet the requirements of the WM7 1 chassis .... and in a year or 18 months ... when I have itchy feet .... I will get a ROM from XDA .... that will rejuvinate the machine ... I can't say this for certain ... and no one at present can say it will or won't be a possibility ...
Mine is on order for Clove ... it is genuinely the first time I've been excited about a WM device since the TyTNII was announced ...
Moandal said:
Very interesting information Noam23. Being able to use a phone effectively with your finger most of the time when you have to use your finger all of the time is not acceptable to me.
I also have the same issue mentioned in your other post where I would want to turn off Manila/HTC-Sense. The fact that they've tried to prevent this proves how unusable WM6.5 is on a capacitive screen.
Oh well, that's just saved me a lot of money!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe you should try it before drawing any conclusions?
Really interested in seeing how Opera performs on the HD2 and whether or not clicking links is difficult.
It's easy to tap small links on the iphone, why should it be difficult on the HD2? All this "it won't be possible to use because of the capacitive screen" debate is just FUD, IMO.
I didn't want to hijack the 'lack of stylus/capacitative screen' thread, but I currently have an original Tilt collecting dust while I've been using a borrowed iPhone 3G until something much better comes along (re: TP2, HD2, Droid??) etc
As mentioned in the other thread, one of the key differences between the iPhone and WinMo devices, is that iPhone developers knew they were developing for devices without styluses or d-pads or keyboards etc, so they suited the app for that experience.
With WinMo, there are so many great legacy applications (productivity and most notably games) that rely on a stylus and/or a dpad to successfully navigate and use the applications. I know from personal experience I was apt to use the stylus less and less on my Tilt because I was able to navigate menus quickly with the dpad etc when they were small.
I know the lack of d-pad is the new trend with a lot [most] WinMo devices and I was hoping someone could comment on that from a usability standpoint. I'm even thinking of simple games like Kevtris etc...I know for some games when you have an option to popup the onscreen keyboard that may alleviate some issues, but I know there are other games that go full screen and don't even remotely give that option...thoughts? Am I overlooking something here?
Thanks!
Don't know anything about Kevtris, but a lot of (if not most) games are unusable on Touch HD.
Apart from games, there are some situations when I miss a d-pad, usually in situations of scrolling through lists. Drop-down lists on web pages in Opera is an especially annoying example. In most other cases though there are arrow keys on the HTC keyboard, which do the job, but you only see half of the screen (the other one is occupied by the keyboard).
So, to summarize, lack of a d-pad is a problem sometimes, but on the other hand not a huge one really, and I wouldn't change my HD for anything but HD2, which also lacks one.
vangrieg said:
So, to summarize, lack of a d-pad is a problem sometimes, but on the other hand not a huge one really, and I wouldn't change my HD for anything but HD2, which also lacks one.
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quoted for truth ...
When I first began using smartphones, my first one, the HTC Hermes, had a D-Pad. I have to admit, I was addicted to it instantly.
It made everything so simple. Controlling music, scrolling, and notably J2ME apps/games all worked better with it. When I had upgraded to a Fuze, I lost the D-Pad, and did miss it really badly at first. However, over time, I eventually stopped caring so much for it.
The way I used my device had to be adjusted, but it was nothing so major. However, if there is one thing that is annoying about lack of D-Pad, it is that many J2ME apps/games simply didn't work well without it. I got over that because many J2ME apps/games didn't work well with a VGA/WVGA screen either. Still, it was a rather significant blow.
Would I like a D-Pad on all my devices? Yes, but I no longer view it as necessary.
Thanks for the replies guys- it sounds like the consensus is that there is no good 'workaround', and that it's a legitimate issue, but in general the benefits/features of the new device outweigh those cons.
For lack of D-pad on games, someone here on xda has developed a software to use the accelerometer to send the d-pad buttons (not just for games actually).
I think's it's called gpad or something.
The software is still being developed but it allowed me to play worms on a device without d-pad.
There might be other software, anyone else found anything?
If we support developments like that, we can actually eliminate the 'worry' of not having a d-pad, and still enjoy our games, with more fun actually!
Yep, Virtual D-Pad v0.9 is the future way to go...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=466002
galaxys said:
Yep, Virtual D-Pad v0.9 is the future way to go...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=466002
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Awesome! This is why I love all the guys here!
hello, every body! (first post!)
great to see all the work done on this forum.
would be interested in HTC HD2, but lack of pad is really annoying. Lots of app need one, just for example navigate in calendar (agenda fusion for me.)
Could it be a solution to write a virtual keybord with ONLY the 4 arrows and an OK button? (and no others letters, to gain display space)
i am definitively not a developper, can't do anything about coding, sadly.
excuse me for my bad english, btw.
1otherfred
shouldnt be that hard, you have everything already, just rip out the arrows and ok button and replace them, or make new ones... unfortunatly im no coder, but maybe I can play around in photoshop/paint
I have developpid one, based on fingerkeyboard.
you can find it here
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=483218
Greetings here! A few months ago, when I saw the "new" touch pro 2 phone, I knew it was "THE" phone for me. Well, I must say it really was, but I just decided to try the new HD2. So, from TP2 to HD2, what can I say? Perhaps my point of view coul help some tp2 owners to choose between "I keep my tp2" or "I buy the hd2"? Here is my opinion:
1) ROM / programs / games / ect...
Well... I can't say. It's the same basically. Evertything the hd2 has, the tp2 can have (with cooked roms at least). Of course, the hd2 is much faster, and can launch many more app in the same time (much more memory). Even after some days without soft-reseting, the thing is still fast and good responding (I must say I use some taskmanager to kill apps I don't use)
2) Keyboard
I must say I write about 4-5 emails each day. The lack of physical keyboard on the hd2 was my worst fear. Well, I was quite disappointed with the hd2 software keyboard, as many people in this forum. Then I tried fingerkeyboard, it was better. Then again, I tried Touchpal, and it was MUCH better. Of course, I can't type as fast as I was used to with my tp2 but... I can type quite fast using touchpal. I can say I'm satisfied with typing on this phone.
3) Battery life
Well, 1'500 Mah for the tp2, and "only" 1'200 for the hd2. I can see the difference. But I'm not using the battery too much (average use: 30 min phone, 1 hour music, 1 hour reading / answering mails, perhaps 30 min on internet, no wi-fi, no bluetooth, and some playing with differents apps), and the hd2 can do it for 2 days without problems.
4) Screen
Is there any need to comment? 3.6' resistive VS 4.3' capacitive? The difference is HUGE!
5) Size
Well, I find that, finally, the hd2 isn't so big compared to the tp2. Much more thinner. I use my hd2 with 2 hands... but I was used to do the same with my tp2 (I didn't ever tried to use it single-handed)
6) Phone / Signal quality
It's still a phone, isn't it? I find the signal quality is the same as it was with my tp2 (flashed with the last radio). Phone quality is very good. The sound is clear and good, better (in my opinion) than on the tp2.
7) GPS
The fix is quite fast, nothing to say, I'm satisfied. Perhaps faster than it was on the tp2.
8) Windows mobile 6.5
My tp2 was 6.1 version (at least until I flashed it). I don't see much differences, and I don't care, actually. I like windows mobile. Why is that? simply because I can choose exactly what I want for my mobile phone. I mean I can choose between (at least):
* Manilla "Sense UI"
* WM6.5 Titanium (not so bad)
* SPB Mobile shell 3.5 (using it right now and quite pleased)
* PointUI Home 2 (long to test and configure, but you can do everything you want with this one. I had some lag with my tp2, but everything runs fine with the hd2)
* ...
9) Camera:
I don't think the hd2 is much better than the tp2... Well, I don't really care. If I want to take a picture, I generally use a "real" camera...
10) Keys:
There is 1 more hardware key on the hd2 (if you don't consider the tp2 hardware keyboard and on/off button). I don't really care about the key functions as I remap them all using AE Button (which I use as taskmanager mapped on a button also). I must even say AE button works better with the hd2 (no idea why... but finding which button was what on the AEB button list was harder on the tp2).
Well... I think that's all. I see many threads flaming the hd2 here, and I don't really understand why so... I decided to share my experience.
PS: Sorry for my english, it's not my main language
Thanks for sharing your experience I upgraded from Touch HD to HD2 and it was a right decision. This phone is just great.
hey mate, well I have a TP2 from work and a HD2 as my personal phone.
Some good points above but I'll add the following:
A)- The TP2 is atrociously slow with the newer 'sense' official ROM's from HTC - Seems the 1Ghz CPU really does make allot of difference when using the WM6.5 ROM's.
B)- The camera is way better than the TP2 - no flash on the TP2 for a start but the overall quality is better on the HD2....
C)- I find the TP2 bulky but thats the compromise you have to make for having a keyboard - one well worth it taking into account the excellent well spaced out keyboard on the TP2 - And I agree with you - the HD2 keyboard is quite sensitive - takes some getting used to.
The way I see it - The TP2 is an excellent business tool and the HD2 is an excellent multimedia / consumer tool. I wouldn't give up my TP2 for work use as I type on the excellent keyboard allot (using MS Communicator) but don't need it for personal use hence the HD2 is well suited for that purpose.
Usual principles apply - everyone has their personal preferences
hehe thanks for your sharing
I'll probably switch from my s710 to the hd2 (what a huge change)
• The speaker in TP2 is the double of sound volume (it has 2 speakers). You can watch films without headphones without any problem as it is very loud and clear
• The screen in TP2 is brighter than HD2 even when both are to the maximum of bright. Also TP2 by default is always in the maximum when HD2 is not to keep the weaker battery safe. The extra bright doesn’t compensate the screen size but makes easier to see it in sunlight and movies with dark-night environments
• TP2 is extremely reliable out the box, HD2 is buggy. Simply don’t try to upgrade TP2 to 6.5 than offers little new and uses more memory.
• TP2 keyboard is perfect, the best ever. HD2 is faulty but you always can train yourself to compensate it.
• TP2 touch screen is predictable; it does what you try to do. HD2 screen is unpredictable. It doesn’t really work in a lot of programs with old menus.
• HD2 browsing internet and movie player is very powerful and way ahead to TP2.
I find very handy also the tilt support of the TP2 when placed in a table. You can have the correct vision angle to see movies at same time you have the keyboard to pause, go backwards and forwards etc. When I see a movie in HD2 everything is ok except if I need to do these operations as the touch screen is not acurate and send me to any part of the movie except the one that I'm looking for.
In general I find HD2 a god with broken legs and TP2 and well rounded hero.
touchpro2 all the way
Honestly I think HD2 has some software issues and do not recomend it. Some programs that work on windows mobile 5,6,6.1, for some reasons do not work on HD2. Especially the games . Wait for an update before getting HD2.