Database Users

HTC Mogul vs HTC Touch - Touchscheen hardware?

Okay,
So I am a power user, and that might be putting it lightly. When it comes to deciding between the Mogul and the Touch, I want the Mogul. Well, I DO want the Touch because its thinner, but I couldn't stand using a touch-screen keyboard with my fingers (or even worse, a stylus). I need a separate keyboard that doesn't take up any screen space while browsing.
What I'm curious about is this: Are the touchscreens on the Mogul and the Touch actually different? Forget dimensions etc., but i mean in terms of the technology, are they the same? If they are the same, then all the current hacks to try to turn the Mogul into a Touch-like phone will eventually (who knows how long) mature enough to work almost identically, is that correct?

madador03 said:
If they are the same, then all the current hacks to try to turn the Mogul into a Touch-like phone will eventually (who knows how long) mature enough to work almost identically, is that correct?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They are indeed the same, last I checked. There was a rumor that the touch would be multi-touch (ala Iphone), but clearly that wasn't true. The term "touch" merely relates to the suite of touch-centric software that actually sits on top of WM.
That's right, there's nothing fancy about the touch that you can't do with the same software. That software, I'd like to add, has already been extracted as .cab files that can be installed on virtually ANY WM5 or WM6 HTC pocket pc.
So, I don't know what this "maturing" is that you're talking about, or why you think it would be "almost" identical... its the same darned thing!!!
The stuff that's being developed currently is to take it beyond the touch, and more like the finger scrolling iPhone interface.
All of the stuff, I'd like to point out again, sits on TOP of Windows Mobile, meaning its just a program that can sometimes get in the way of how WM was actually designed to work.
Sometimes its convenient to have, but in general, I find any of the touch / finger / iphone add ons to be more trouble than their worth, and that goes for the ACTUAL htc touch as well!!

Dishe said:
They are indeed the same, last I checked. There was a rumor that the touch would be multi-touch (ala Iphone), but clearly that wasn't true. The term "touch" merely relates to the suite of touch-centric software that actually sits on top of WM.
That's right, there's nothing fancy about the touch that you can't do with the same software. That software, I'd like to add, has already been extracted as .cab files that can be installed on virtually ANY WM5 or WM6 HTC pocket pc.
So, I don't know what this "maturing" is that you're talking about, or why you think it would be "almost" identical... its the same darned thing!!!
The stuff that's being developed currently is to take it beyond the touch, and more like the finger scrolling iPhone interface.
All of the stuff, I'd like to point out again, sits on TOP of Windows Mobile, meaning its just a program that can sometimes get in the way of how WM was actually designed to work.
Sometimes its convenient to have, but in general, I find any of the touch / finger / iphone add ons to be more trouble than their worth, and that goes for the ACTUAL htc touch as well!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Um... please show me where I can download the touchflo interface that works exactly like the touch. All the versions I've gotten require the use of buttons instead of touch, and are extremely buggy. If you you know of a cab that gives the mogul all the touchflo features, by all means let me know...

my suggestion, if you have Sprint...wait
Sprint's versio of the HTC Touch is apparently due out in November. It'll be only a matter of time before someone extracts those cabs and/or creates a new touch-based, CDMA-based rom that can be more easily ported to the mogul.
I for one am interested in the new on screen keyboard interfacethe new touch is supposed to have...
I tried using the other method to get the home-brewed (button-based) touch, but I ran into a few problems and uninstalled.

Quick question.
Does or can wm6 support multi touch hardware?

The touch from sprint will have twice the memory (128mb ram) - i don't know about you guys, but I'm constantly filling up the supposed 64mb realistic 47mb really 17mb after cache/etc of memory that this device has...
-mark

Is the iPhone the only one with a multi-touch interface? What is the next phone that will have it?

HTC Touch HD for business use

Everywhere is announced the HD is great because of its multimedia functions.
For myself I have NO USE for multimedia (except taking good pictures for my work). What I need is:
a) a big screen for reading email, html email and so on
b) a big screen for my pocket office excel sheets (the more row/column I can see the better)
c) a touch keyboard not too small
d) a slim and compact device (I think that this eliminates devices with phisical keyboard)
e) a device that fits comfortably in your pocket: doesn't weight "a lot"
f) the best quality possible for pictures, the ideal would be that it can take pictures of documents and that later you are able to actually read them, looking at the picture taken
g) gps included
h) EXCELLENT battery consumption: so that with a "normal" use you can EASILY arrive at night without the need of having chargers all over (car/house/office)
In your opinion is the Touch HD good for the purpose? Maybe something else on the market is better?
Thanks for any comment.
P.S. so far I had Qtek 1010, 2020, Universal (in my opinion the WORST phone I had because of its bulky size and short battery life), Tytn, Cruise.

It's absolutely definitely the best thing you can buy for business if you don't need a qwerty keyboard.
As you mentioned before it has a big screen for web, email and office and it's still slim and light enough to fit in your pocket.
Windows Mobile is the only OS to choose for business (besides Blackberry) and the HD has the second best camera in a Windows Mobile phone which is absolutely sufficient for taking pictures of documents.
There's no better device (if you don't need a querty keyboard).

Hi claudioita,
I have exactly the same needs, and I am still unsure whether to go for the Xperia X1 or the Touch HD. I like the big display and the thinner device, but I think that TouchFlo will be quite annoying after a while (I prefer to see the time/date and my next appointments when I look at my device, not windscreen wipers ...). The X1 seems to be more flexible in installing other panels. On the other hand, it is not so flat ...
Well, at least here in Germany both devices are not available at the moment, so I think we have to wait and see if we can get hands on them once they appear in the stores around.
Eriol

You can disable TouchFlo if you don't linke it but I think it's the best interface IMHO even better than the iPhone.

Eriol said:
Hi claudioita,
I have exactly the same needs, and I am still unsure whether to go for the Xperia X1 or the Touch HD. I like the big display and the thinner device, but I think that TouchFlo will be quite annoying after a while (I prefer to see the time/date and my next appointments when I look at my device, not windscreen wipers ...). The X1 seems to be more flexible in installing other panels. On the other hand, it is not so flat ...
Well, at least here in Germany both devices are not available at the moment, so I think we have to wait and see if we can get hands on them once they appear in the stores around.
Eriol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
"I prefer to see the time/date and my next appointments when I look at my device"
The Touchflo Homescreen shows exactly that. and if you scroll down to switch to the advanced home screen, the clock becomes smaller and the list bigger, so you will see even more appointments. Alsom the screen on the X1 is smaller and as far as i have seen, you will have to use the stylus quite often In that case, the Touch HD is much better. The bigger Screen is also good when working on excel sheets and more. Also, the X1 is said to be a bit laggy sometimes when switching to landscape mode and back. I really recommend that you watch some videos about the interface.
oh and: there is a new "customize tab" feature on the HD. so you may be able to delete tabs and rearrange them

its a good phone but its based on the same hardware as the Diamond, so do a bit of guess work and some math and its power consumption can only be worse than the diamond, so unless battery is proportionaly larger its going to suck. I dont believe its going to have a larger battery than say around 1350 so to put it simply it'll last about 2 hours less than the touch Pro...

dazza9075 said:
its a good phone but its based on the same hardware as the Diamond, so do a bit of guess work and some math and its power consumption can only be worse than the diamond, so unless battery is proportionaly larger its going to suck. I dont believe its going to have a larger battery than say around 1350 so to put it simply it'll last about 2 hours less than the touch Pro...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep.
Exactly what I think. 3.8inch with that resolution ..... I won't buy it first. Will wait 1 or 2 months and check review on power consumption

Why not use a fold -up keyboard instead. You can leave in your briefcase and only take out when needed. This combination will ensure portability- thin and lightweight. Unlike the Uni which I also use.
Otherwise we should wait for the HTC Omni - if it will ever be launched!
Calli

calli said:
Why not use a fold -up keyboard instead. You can leave in your briefcase and only take out when needed. This combination will ensure portability- thin and lightweight. Unlike the Uni which I also use.
Otherwise we should wait for the HTC Omni - if it will ever be launched!
Calli
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your comments wiil be greatly appreciated
Calli

I have a bluetooth keyboard with my current PDA and will pass this onto the HD when it arrives. It is (for me) ideal, the phone is that bit smaller and I have almost full full-size keyboard when I need too.

claudioita said:
Yep.
Exactly what I think. 3.8inch with that resolution ..... I won't buy it first. Will wait 1 or 2 months and check review on power consumption
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am wondering the same since i heard of this device. But, i will definitly get this phone. I often heard that the diamond had a very bad battery life, but on the other hand, i have got an LG Viewty at the moment. This phone is said to have a very very bad battery. people even said it only lasts around 2 days without doing that much. many people wrote a bad review about this on amazon.
strangely, i use the viewty on a daily basis, for checking mails and writing sms or doing calls. so i even use hsdpa at least 2 or three times a day. and i can get a battery life of around a week!
But ofcourse, if i keep running on hsdpa the whole day, by browsing the net for hours for example i get have to plug it in the next day.
i really think that many people just use their mobilephones without ever thinking how much battery life is trained away, when they use gps, wlan and more the whole day. i am pretty sure that, with a normal usage, i can at least get a week or more out of the HD, as it has a better battery and higher standby and usage time as my viewty has got now.

btw, as you mentioned bluetooth keyboards.
are there any good devices out there? can you recommend some?
i am planning to use my Dinovo Mini for my Touch HD (i know it works) but maybe there are better keyboards out there

Business usability of soft keyboard
Hi,
I follow the discussions on a "Touch HD pro" version, but I am convinced that this would not be a good deal: The Touch HD's size is acceptable because it is really flat. A Touch HD pro would be at least as thick as an Xperia X1 or Touch pro. Thus, the whole device would be heavy and - for many users, I am sure - too big in all dimensions.
I wonder why all the videos we can see do not show the progress of a software keyboard in Toch HD. They all mention that "there is a software keyboard", but -well - we expect tghis, don't we? But: How usable is it?
I writing this because I am still unsure about Xperia X1, Touch HD (and may be Touch Pro). I really need a good argument for the keyboard question because I will need it quite regularly for emails. On the other hand, the Touch HD beats the Xperia in many other aspects ...
What do you guys think or know about the software keyboard?
Eriol

Eriol said:
Hi,
I follow the discussions on a "Touch HD pro" version, but I am convinced that this would not be a good deal: The Touch HD's size is acceptable because it is really flat. A Touch HD pro would be at least as thick as an Xperia X1 or Touch pro. Thus, the whole device would be heavy and - for many users, I am sure - too big in all dimensions.
I wonder why all the videos we can see do not show the progress of a software keyboard in Toch HD. They all mention that "there is a software keyboard", but -well - we expect tghis, don't we? But: How usable is it?
I writing this because I am still unsure about Xperia X1, Touch HD (and may be Touch Pro). I really need a good argument for the keyboard question because I will need it quite regularly for emails. On the other hand, the Touch HD beats the Xperia in many other aspects ...
What do you guys think or know about the software keyboard?
Eriol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
at the moment no one has the HD so noone can comment on this. biut irecommend that you go to youtube and look at some tests there. you can see how the keyboard looks and compare it to the diamond videos

Raziel1 said:
at the moment no one has the HD so noone can comment on this. biut irecommend that you go to youtube and look at some tests there. you can see how the keyboard looks and compare it to the diamond videos
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for this answer, well, I watched every and all videos about the HD on Youttube and other sites and in all avaliable languages (...). But I did not see any video that shows the soft keyboard in use (and esp. in landscape mode). All reviews I have seen stress the multimedia contents and the TouchFlo3D. For day-to-day business use, the keyboard is quite important, though. And I expect that there can be a quite useful soft keyboard implementation with such a big screen.
(BTW: Reading this forum, there are a lot of comments that make me think that the one or other must have seen the HD before posting comments! Some know many details that they can only know after having hands on the Touch HD!)
Eriol

Eriol said:
Thanks for this answer, well, I watched every and all videos about the HD on Youttube and other sites and in all avaliable languages (...). But I did not see any video that shows the soft keyboard in use (and esp. in landscape mode). All reviews I have seen stress the multimedia contents and the TouchFlo3D. For day-to-day business use, the keyboard is quite important, though. And I expect that there can be a quite useful soft keyboard implementation with such a big screen.
(BTW: Reading this forum, there are a lot of comments that make me think that the one or other must have seen the HD before posting comments! Some know many details that they can only know after having hands on the Touch HD!)
Eriol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i don't think so. all the details are out there since weeks. full hardware specs and all the features. there are many videos which show the keyboard and explain it a bit. but as it is the same as on the diamond or touch pro, theres no real change. i hope that you know that you can't use the keyboard in landscape mode. only if you install Gsen or Gyrator or how it's called.

Raziel1 said:
... i hope that you know that you can't use the keyboard in landscape mode. only if you install Gsen or Gyrator or how it's called.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Heck, no - I did not know that. I have a HTC Wizard at the moment running on WM6 and I surely can use the software keyboard in landscape mode with it (this also worked with WM5)! (Even though I do not use it because the Wizard has a hardware kbrd in landscape mode ...)
Why did they change this???
Eriol

Eriol said:
Heck, no - I did not know that. I have a HTC Wizard at the moment running on WM6 and I surely can use the software keyboard in landscape mode with it (this also worked with WM5)! (Even though I do not use it because the Wizard has a hardware kbrd in landscape mode ...)
Why did they change this???
Eriol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that was also in the diamond or pro. switching to landscape mode by using the g-sensor is only possible in opera and when viewing pictures. it should be possible to do it manually in windows, so what i ment was switching by using the sensor in touchflo3d. the good news is, that there are apps out like Gsen which activate full rotation in any app and window

Raziel1 said:
that was also in the diamond or pro. switching to landscape mode by using the g-sensor is only possible in opera and when viewing pictures. it should be possible to do it manually in windows, so what i ment was switching by using the sensor in touchflo3d. the good news is, that there are apps out like Gsen which activate full rotation in any app and window
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, understand ... so, installing Gsen and probably using a bluetooth keyboard if neccessary will make this device a good business solution (lack of TV-Out is not an issues to me as my experience is that in case of a presentation there will always be someone with a notebook around).
Eriol

Some specs show that there is a TV out. Far more impressive doing a presentation using your PDA though. I realy think that a software and a protable Stowaway keyboard is the way to go.
Calli

SO,How is XpErIa?

After using the device for last two weeks now i want to think does it really made us happy,if it's then how much? Haven't you guys think for a single moment that it is not worthy. Is there any real competitor or better out there?

i was actually skeptical in the beginning, but the more i use it the happier i get with it.

aaahhhhh................ I love this phone. i bought it this afternoon. i think te best thing about this phone is the 3,5inch jackplug (my last phone was a hermes with an mini usb audio plug GGGRRRRRrrrrrrrrrr!!! for 4 times i had to buy a new converter cable because of the crapy quality.)
For a phone with a qwerty keyboard it a pretty slim phone, not?
simply love this one!

i like it.
and i dont..
there are a lot of things that i would have like to see a bit different.
the software things i can change with time
not the hardware, so gues i have to get used to that.

boinger66 said:
i was actually skeptical in the beginning, but the more i use it the happier i get with it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True
Very very happy...

anheuer said:
i like it.
and i dont..
there are a lot of things that i would have like to see a bit different.
the software things i can change with time
not the hardware, so gues i have to get used to that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I also own a Diamond and a X1 - I thought the SE would be an great evolution from the Diamond.
The Diamond was the revolution - a great phone. The SE is not really great in any way, however it's - quite good in everything.

I originally upgraded to the C905 but decided to changed it for the X1. So glad that I did as I'm loving it. Had it for 2 weeks now and I'm still finding out new things about it. It's my first WinMob phone so there's so much more you can do with it. Can't wait for more apps to be released and a system upgrade would be nice.

I'm even happier now i've given up on trying to use the TouchFlo CAB's.
I think if you embrace the phone interface as it was intended you'll get much more enjoyment from it.

x1 + tflo3d rulez... quick phone, quick gps, good wifi, hw keyboard needs only some time to get comfortable... I'm very happy

It's great, just... great
I had an Iphone 3G before so even if the screen is more little, the WVGA is great.
The battery is good, the keyboard is nice and at last I can use Real VNC or Remote Desktop to access my servers without a laptop and with a decent resolution.
And of course, it's fast.
There are still some problems (wifi password lost, BT disconnecting) but I guess it can be solved by an updated firmware.
But in the end, I just like it

The Xperia is my 4th. HTC device and the 2nd that I am happy with. The first was a Palm Treo 750W.
The other 2 HTC branded devices I have owned (touch Dual & Touch Diamond) were junk with poor support for any technical issues from HTC.
It appears to me that the major handest manufacturers like Palm & Sony who OEM thru HTC, actually specify, test and produce a much more professional product.
I certainly will never buy another HTC branded product again

The only gripe I have with it is the crappy signal, but that should be amended with a radio upgrade.

From a total package perspective, the X1 is a very good smartphone.
Sure there are some areas that needs more work, but they are not fatal and do not detract from the overall high quality of the device. It is well designed and well built, and the specifications are about one of the best in the market right now.
I am very happy with my X1, and is one of the better buys that I've made over the past year or so.

I'm not too happy with the panels. They are so slow and they are not even real representations of the screen. My appointments are all default made up ones and it takes like 5 seconds just to change from the fake panel to the real one. Panels don't even remember where you were in the panel which is retarded. For instances if I am on the main today screen of the SPB panel and i leave the panel and go back it defaults back to the programs page. There is not even a setting to make it always show the today page. Dumb. Also, there is no Start menu on the panels screen so I always have to select a panel just to select the start menu. STUPID.
Device is cool, but panels are not the reason. Who cares if I can move a bunch of fake panels around the screen in different ways if they are not even real representations of the screens just look the same all the time? Also, screen orientation does not change anywhere near instantly. Sure, faster then my old qtek 9100, but still not instant and has plenty of delays for some strange reason.

kiwiandy said:
The Xperia is my 4th. HTC device and the 2nd that I am happy with. The first was a Palm Treo 750W.
The other 2 HTC branded devices I have owned (touch Dual & Touch Diamond) were junk with poor support for any technical issues from HTC.
It appears to me that the major handest manufacturers like Palm & Sony who OEM thru HTC, actually specify, test and produce a much more professional product.
I certainly will never buy another HTC branded product again
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This I agree with you regarding the poor support of HTC even in Singapore. Before using the X1, I have tried out Diamond which is my first WM device and after Touch Pro launch, I switch to Touch Pro due to the lack of memory and laggy of the Diamond.
Touch Pro is a little better than Diamond as both are also using Touch Flo 3D and Touch Pro has little memory more than Diamond.
I have no regrets switching to X1 as it is a lot faster and responsive than HTC device as SE has a better after sales support in terms of service centre and phone support compared to HTC.
I don't think I will ever buy any HTC product in future too cos after sales support is important to me as there are no product which is perfect and problem free in this world.

contaygious said:
I'm not too happy with the panels. They are so slow and they are not even real representations of the screen. My appointments are all default made up ones and it takes like 5 seconds just to change from the fake panel to the real one. Panels don't even remember where you were in the panel which is retarded. For instances if I am on the main today screen of the SPB panel and i leave the panel and go back it defaults back to the programs page. There is not even a setting to make it always show the today page. Dumb. Also, there is no Start menu on the panels screen so I always have to select a panel just to select the start menu. STUPID.
Device is cool, but panels are not the reason. Who cares if I can move a bunch of fake panels around the screen in different ways if they are not even real representations of the screens just look the same all the time? Also, screen orientation does not change anywhere near instantly. Sure, faster then my old qtek 9100, but still not instant and has plenty of delays for some strange reason.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
dude you have failed to internalise the purpose of panels. It's a desktop profile based on the time of the day. You don't switch panels like you switch windows!
before you call the concept stupid, understand it first. Using it for wrong purpose is like buying a 2 door sports car for cargo delivery purpose and claim the car manufacturer stupid for designing the car that don't meet your needs!

I miss something between "very very happy" and "just about OK".
It's better that "just about OK", but it's not perfect.
I love the small overall size, the stylisch metal cover, the keyboard, the good standby time, the good performance, the big memory, the hi-res display, ...
But then again, the panels aren't that great, I miss some application buttons, the soft reset button location is plain stupid, the screen resolution causes troubles with some programs, the screen size is only just big enough, I miss an option to disable the optical DPad per application (it's great in many apps, but esp. in some games, it really sucks...), ... Mostly only minor things, but stopping me from being "very very happy"...

i m proud of using xperia

akechi84 said:
i m proud of using xperia
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Me too, it is so sexy and light compared to my previous Touch Pro, just like bringing out a BRICK.

contaygious said:
They are so slow and they are not even real representations of the screen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The "screenshots" in the panel selection screen are only rough examples. They're really only something like "improved icons" for selection, and do not represent the actual contents.
Panels don't even remember where you were in the panel which is retarded.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The device does remember the last panel, if that's what you mean. Just press the red phone button to go back to that.
Though I admit it would've been a way better idea to return to the last panel with the panel button and then open the panel selection with another press of the button. Or even better, show the next panel after a short press and show the selection with a long press.
For instances if I am on the main today screen of the SPB panel and i leave the panel and go back it defaults back to the programs page.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's probably up to the panel itself. If SPB doesn't save the last panel contents, you can't blame the panel concept. For example, the SE panels do remember the selected blocks. But I think SPB wanted it that way, just like the Now screen in "normal" Mobile Shell always initializes with the same contents.
Device is cool, but panels are not the reason.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed, but not (only) because of the reasons you named.
I think panels are more or less an unnecessary reprogramming of the Today screen (esp. the SE panel "blocks" would have made great plugins...).
With good plugins and a way to have more plugins than just the currently visible ones (e.g. with UltimateLaunch, PocketPlus, some SBSH plugins, ...), you get similar results way faster, more easy to handle, and using less system resources. OK, no nice 3D animations, but except for showing off they've got no use there, anyway...
Who cares if I can move a bunch of fake panels around the screen in different ways if they are not even real representations of the screens just look the same all the time?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As said, it's more like shuffling around hi-res icons...
Also, screen orientation does not change anywhere near instantly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Usually, it takes not even a second on my device.

Partial comparison with iPhone

Hello
I have been a happy HTC Touch (regular not HD) user for 12 months, doing extensive customisation on my phone. Recently, mainly because my Touch was really slow (only 64Ko of memory, still slow even after replacing with a faster ROM), I bought an iPhone 3G.
After a few months of use, there are pros and cons of course. Now that the HD is out, I am wondering if I should switch back to the HTC Touch HD.
So here are my first conclusions, but of course since I don't have a Touch HD, I cannot answer many of the points.
Please use this thread to complete a really detailed comparison between the iPhone and the Touch HD, not what you can find on standard sites comparing basic features.
General response time: big disappointment as this was my main driver. The iPhone (I have 4 pages of apps installed, so what, I should not use the phone fully???) is really slow. Calendar or contact can sometimes takes up to 5 seconds to open: UNACCEPTABLE. Inside the apps sometimes it is slow as well. Hope the Touch HD is better than the Touch
Calendar: Iphone standard Calendar is much easier to use with a finger than default WM version. However I was using ThumbCal and it was fine with finger even on small HTC Touch screen. Not sure if HTC Touch HD enlarges standard WM calendar (everything is larger) or simply packs more info on a signle page? Also I don't like the fact in iPhone that tasks are not managed by Calendar, annoying!
Contacts: iPhone is much better than default WM or HTC Touch features (one again mainly because easier to use without a stylus). However replacement app such as PocketCm does a better job on WM than on the iPhone: Easier scroll through contact on main page by showing the first letter that will be displaid if releasing the finger. SMS are visible from the contact directly, no need to open SMS app like on the iPhone. Much better group and filter management also: ability to filter contacts by groups (ok also on iPhone, but management of groups creates constraints in Outlook), by city, by company... no equivalent on iPhone.
Phone: better on iPhone: the screen locks itself while speaking, to prevent pressing keys, this is good, don't think it's available on Touch HD? Bigger keys on dialer. Better display format of phone numbers on dialer (grouping of digits). Good pad showing up when on the phone to have the need options on iPhone (speaker phone, contacts, calendar...). And finally Visual Voice mail is useful!
Internet browsing: hard to compare, as I could not really use opera mini on the Touch. I must say Safari does the job quite well, allowing you to access most sites, without flash of course. Does Opera allow to see flash sites? Safari sometimes crashes, but still acceptable. Speed depends on quality of connection. One great thing is integration with iPhone programs: for instance you look on Google for a store. You find it with phone number displaid on Google search page. CLicking on the phone number allows you to call it directly. If you make the call, in call history it will diplay correctly the name of the store to be entered directly in contacts! Fantastic, probably not available in WM and Opera?
Mail: hard to compare as I was not using it on Touch. But the iPhone feature is excellent. I use Yahoo mail. Configuration was very simple, and mails are pre formatted to the iPhone scrren, making it easy to use. Does Touch HD reformat properly mails?
Other programs in general: I would say most progams are more mature on WM, but harder to use since designed to use with a stylus. Not sure once again if the Touch HD enlarges same surface on the screen or simply packs more info in one page, still requiring use of stylus.
Profile Management: my biggest problem with iPhone: Apple does not allow to create a progam that will switch automatically several profile parameters. What is this? A profile is a set of parameter such as screen brightness, ring tone/vibrate, blue tooth on/off, wifi off, 3G on/off, GPS on/off... With Phoneweaver I was able to create as many profiles as needed and change at the touch of a finger. In iPhone, a real nightmare. Let's say you want to activate 3G and GPS: it takes at least 15 clicks... just for these 2 options. UNACCEPTABLE.
SpringBoard: this is the ability to use icons on the today screen: much better on the iPhone by default, but once again with additional program in WM such as iLauncher I was able to get a better result by creating categories which is not really possible in iPhone (I tried Categories, way too slow! and Stacks is odd to use).
GPS: well without TOmTOm I don't see the use of the GPS in the iPhone...
This is a first shot, please give some input!
Olivier

How is this a comparison if you don't even have the Touch HD? It is just your opinions of the iPhone 3G.......on a Touch HD forum of all places.

You can not compare the htc touch with the iphone 3G
the iphone 3G is a newer model which was released 1 year after the htc touch

Also the HD has all the phone features you are saying are better on the iphone and unavailable on the HD. You can either autolock phone when you make a call or use the light sensor on the earpiece. And you get the pad type thing.

i suggest you actually use the HD before posting a comparison in here.

I dont think this guy has used a windows mobile device at all, let alone the Touch HD. he sounds like an apple fan who has just 'heard a bunch of stuff' about Windows Mobile.
Most of it is unfounded.. I mean, how are iPhone contacts better than the Touch HDs? Which is VERY finger friendly.

Calm down with the fanboi defensive stuff guys.
I've had both (sold the Iphone).
Touch HD pro: great form factor, fabulous screen, the resolution makes it so much more usable for bigger webpages. The tweakability of WM too.
Touch HD cons: lots of little irritating things - it's a shoddy unfinished product in a lot of ways. GPS popping offline, wifi problems, those damn freezes, the incompleteness of T3D, the need to tweak all sorts of things that should already have been done (eg opera tweak so you don't need to zoom before clicking). Youtube app doesn't work at all on mine. No BBC iplayer (not HTC's fault of course, but still an issue for consumers). Lots of other small things that should never have happened with a finished product, let alone one costing more than most laptops.
Now that looks like a lot of cons relative to the pros, but the thing is the hardware is just a baseline, a starting point. The excellence of the screen allows it to be whatever product you want - none of the failings are critical for me, and by tweaking/customizing I've fixed/bypassed most of them.
Basically, the Touch HD is a better product than the Iphone, but let down by software quality control.

arfster said:
Calm down with the fanboi defensive stuff guys.
I've had both (sold the Iphone).
Touch HD pro: great form factor, fabulous screen, the resolution makes it so much more usable for bigger webpages. The tweakability of WM too.
Touch HD cons: lots of little irritating things - it's a shoddy unfinished product in a lot of ways. GPS popping offline, wifi problems, those damn freezes, the incompleteness of T3D, the need to tweak all sorts of things that should already have been done (eg opera tweak so you don't need to zoom before clicking). Youtube app doesn't work at all on mine. No BBC iplayer (not HTC's fault of course, but still an issue for consumers). Lots of other small things that should never have happened with a finished product, let alone one costing more than most laptops.
Now that looks like a lot of cons relative to the pros, but the thing is the hardware is just a baseline, a starting point. The excellence of the screen allows it to be whatever product you want - none of the failings are critical for me, and by tweaking/customizing I've fixed/bypassed most of them.
Basically, the Touch HD is a better product than the Iphone, but let down by software quality control.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agree, although the Opera thing is not a bug, it's a feature We are spoiled with the HD screen which allows you to actually read huge pages without zooming. On other devices, you hardly can, let alone click a link in any accurate fashion, so you will want to be able to zoom first without accidentally clicking some link in the process... Everyone has their opinion about this of course but this is the reason behind it.

nin2thevoid said:
Agree, although the Opera thing is not a bug, it's a feature We are spoiled with the HD screen which allows you to actually read huge pages without zooming. On other devices, you hardly can, let alone click a link in any accurate fashion, so you will want to be able to zoom first without accidentally clicking some link in the process...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hrrm, don't see why. What's the benefit of zooming first? You can still do it if you want.
Looks to me like HTC just installed Opera and didn't bother testing/tweaking it.

arfster said:
Hrrm, don't see why. What's the benefit of zooming first? You can still do it if you want.
Looks to me like HTC just installed Opera and didn't bother testing/tweaking it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Apparently the meaning of this is that one click in zoom out mode means hovering the mouse to that area. Some websites depends heavily on mouse and hover menus, and without this these sites would be unusable.

I have only 1 thing to say...I had Iphone and HTC X7500....Sold both of them and bought Touch HD...I am really happy with it

Why do people insist on compare a toy with professional devices with all features need and many more ? OMG and even comparing devices you don't have with toys, iPhoney is just a toy with many limitations, there's absolutely no way to compare it with the HD, for those who like to use the expression "iPhone killer" you can stop that, that device was already killed by past HTC devices and others. Stop creating Threads like this one.
Best regards

PJMDS said:
Why do people insist on compare a toy with professional devices with all features need and many more ? OMG and even comparing devices you don't have with toys, iPhoney is just a toy with many limitations, there's absolutely no way to compare it with the HD, for those who like to use the expression "iPhone killer" you can stop that, that device was already killed by past HTC devices and others. Stop creating Threads like this one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry, but that's just silly. Of course you can compare them - as cameras, as music players, as web browsers, as video players etc etc. Same as any other multimedia phone. Personally my take is that the Iphone still has the best interface going, and benefits from a mass captive market that others don't have. It took until the touch hd before I actually bought a replacement - none of the other potential "iphone killers" were was good as even the original device (including previous HTC products).
What is with all the fanboi rubbish for and against the iphone? It's a device. If you like it you buy, if not you don't. People seem to take to "supporting" their favourite product like a football team.

There are just a few basic things in my opinion that make the HD far superior to the iPhone.
1. iPhone has no copy and paste...how stupid is that?
2. iphone has no working GPS software with built-in maps and voice navigation...huge omission.
3. iPhone doesn't multitask, you have to close an app to start another...OMG!
If these points don't convince someone that they should get the HD over the iPhone then that's fine, different strokes for different folks. The iPhone is iCandy...period.

concerning web browsing, iphone is much better than the touch hd.
Even though its screen is a bit smaller, the pages load much faster and the scrolling is way smoother.
The keypad is also much better on the iphone, at least for me. When pressing a key, you see above your finger whiwh key you pressed.
Not mentionning the audio part for which the hd doesn't come close to the iphone.
I guess you're wondering what i'm doing here and why i haven't sold my hd yet ? The hd is the best wm based device i've ever had. Being able to install whatever you want and to tweak at will is great.
Now, if a good gps software is someday released for iphone, i may reconsider and leave the touch hd unless it's been improved for web browsing notably in the meantime

...
well, on the other hand some pages in Safari doesn´t work correctly and I don´t understand what you mean the audio part - the quality of 3,5 jack output are comparable (according to independent tests - see gsmarena for example)...iphone´s jack output is just good, not outstanding quality.

catinthehat said:
i suggest you actually use the HD before posting a comparison in here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Second that....
totally useless post, if u actually not even own a HD

hannawald said:
well, on the other hand some pages in Safari doesn´t work correctly and I don´t understand what you mean the audio part - the quality of 3,5 jack output are comparable (according to independent tests - see gsmarena for example)...iphone´s jack output is just good, not outstanding quality.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True. Forgot to mention it's the software side i was talking about : i find it easier to navigate all my music on the iphone. Htc tried to mimic this interface but it doesn't match the original
This is of course subjective, but at least it comes from a guy who has both devices in his pocket =)

well all i have to say on the subject is this....

David Balfour said:
well all i have to say on the subject is this....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hehehe you missed the battery....

How r u guys coping without a stylus?

Hi Guys,
Just wanted to know from those who are moving from HD to HD2.. how are you guys coping without a stylus??
I am so much in a habit to pull out the stylus from the blackstone...
Are the OK and the X easy to press... scroll bar??
Thanks guys!!

Having moved from a HD to a HD2 about six weeks ago (with 1st batch from Clove Tech) I have one reply for you "what's a stylus ?"
Seriously, it's very good. I have moved to using the Resco keyboard as the standard one is too sensitive and sometimes I use Swype which is amazingly accurate.
So far, I only miss the little metal pointy thing for SPB finance (vintage 2008) which really needs a stylus for operation. But, I'm now using http://sites.google.com/site/maximusmobileproject/Current-Apps/winmoFinance which seems a good alternative.
So, here's one delighted user that the stylus is gone. Second-hand HD with spare stylus anyone ?

Never used my stylus on my HD so not missing it at all. The down arrows in certain menus are a little tricky to operate some times (like changing the text message notification) but if you get the screen alignment right then you get it used where to press. But then, that's the OS problem rather than the phone so when WM7 comes along hopefully it'll all be great!

Moved from a Xperia, which is not useable without stylus, to HD2.
No problem.

well, just fine sometimes I hit the wrong thing, but now I'm adjusted to the sensitivity, I feel that I can text easier than on my iphone. I don't notice anything in the GUI that winmob was designed for a stylus. well,not really, though

Totally agree with the above, and I too came from a HD to a HD2, but had a very similar ROM on the HD, and had already got that as finger friendly as possible, so not much of a transition.
With respect to one particular question...
prateekgujral said:
scroll bar??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh they're actually fun to use! It goes wider where you put your thumb on it, so it's actually easier to use than it was with a stylus!

Sounds good.. thanks

I came to the HD2, from an Athena (X7500) for me the lack of a stylus has turned out to be a big issue*, I cannot enter data reliability nor use applications such as Cash Organizer or Pocket Informant reliably. It is a fine media phone though. I rather hope that the rumoured HTC patented stylus may be a help here
*(This is an opinion, because it may differ from other peoples opinion, it does not make me a Troll, Stupid, or a member of a vast anti-Windows-Mobile conspracy)

Coming from a Kaiser to Leo I thought I would miss both hardware keyboard and stylus, truth is I have missed neither. My typing speed is still not as quick but is getting better all the time.

I had an HTC Touch and then an MDA Compact IV (HTC Diamond). Of course, I still go for the stylus (conditioned reflex) but always realise that I really do not need it. I was very apprehensive when I ordered the HD2 but the apprehension vanished when I tried to use it without the stylus. No need for it at all. I even ported my Sudoku Mastersoft 2.0 and play it every time with no problem! It's true that, eventually, you come across bits that need a stylus and where finger pinching does not work, but that's once every 99 times you use the HD2. Fear not. Go for it. And take advantage of all the .cabs available here. I dowloaded a dozen of them, so had no need to touch the registry.

I've been using Touch Pro for more than a year now. After around 7 months I stopped using the stylus completely, even for Solitare. Without any problems.
HD2 is going to come to me next week and there is no way it could be worce, since it has a capacitive and huuuuuge screen.
Don't worry / don't hesitate to get one.

Using HD2 for 3 weeks. At first I thought I'd go to buy the HD2 stylus as soon as it is available, but now I have second thoughts.
Yes, it is much easier to work with a stylus. Even after practice, the finger is not as precise. Working with Listpro is a really difficult when I have narrow columns that shows exactly a checkbox. I hope listpro will soon release its finger friendly version, or another product will attract me to leave listpro.
I think many "old" applications will have similar troubles. Even some of the Windows screen (like the Connections setting screen) have small UI elements and are not really finger friendly. I can only hope things will improve in the future.
At first, the capacitive screen (and thus the lack of stylus) was a factor that nearly drove me to buy Omnia II instead of HD2. I still am not convinced whether one of these two devices is better than the other, but I heard the WM7 is going to be capacitve and so finger is the future.
PS: for legacy applications, it is very difficult to control the scroll bar when the list is long. When the list is short (say 100 entries), the finger sized scroll button is rather good to use. For big pages (say 300 entries, or the help file of swype), I found that it is nearly impossible to scroll. The list keep jumping around uncontrollably. For big lists, I am forced to use the swype page up page down buttons.

Within Sense UI it is very easy to use finger-only. Once you jump into WM it can get difficult to hit certain lists/buttons.

I have my HD2 for about38 days already. In the first week I was hunting high and low for a stylus and eventually bought 2 types ( meant for iphone). However I found is a waste of money as it takes a lot of hard presses to get the stylus working well; so both stylus gone into the trash can. Then I realized I just need to "exercise" my fingers to make best use of it. I am proud to say now I do not miss the stylus and I find that my finger presses had improved dramatically and accuracy of keys input is 99.99 % and pretty fast. I was on Swype for keyboard input for about 2 weeks ( a fantastic piece of software - highly recommended). However now I go back to use the default touch input for normal use as I have now find it very easy to use now. I now swype only for cases needing lots of data input .

Has the HTC HD2 Capacitive Stylus been released yet ?
I see it's being advertised here:
http://www.clove.co.uk/viewProduct.aspx?product=83E47B82-89E5-4C33-95D5-84F7AE3C3F50

no problem without stylus at all if somebedy have problems with any app, you can add this app to pinch to zoom whitelist, and than just zoom in and click on it

i sometimes miss my stylus, there is really a problem but others advantages of finger scrolling make no turning back! i have accepted the inconveniences!

can't play All Mobile Minesweeper anymore... and many other games...

Moved from the SE X1 where I did use my finger for some things (even typing with FingerKeyboard - brilliant piece of software). Haven't missed the stylus much except for using TotalCommander which can be a real pain!

Most of the time it is OK. But I wish there was an accurate stylus. All Mobile Mines was a favourite of mine. I find Total Commander impossible to use. Data on the Run 5 (a database app I use to record all my books) is a swine to use, as it is designed for stylus. Some apps do not show a scroll bar that expands, so are very difficult (Opera for one!) Zooming in can be hit and miss, and can zoom back out when you do not want it to.
Keyboard is OK (but I was quicker on hx4700) when desensitised (I use BsB 1.6).
Sense UI is very clever, but the icons are huge "off the shelf" and waste so much space.
I really miss easy access to task manager; on my hx4700 I used Magic Button but it is not happy with WM6.5, and I don't want more memory hoggers running. The small icons it creates for runing programs are too easy to miss-hit, and WM6.5 could not show as many as WM2003SE, so it was pointless using it. Now I have Task Manager shortcut in my home screen to switch between progs. I have not found a 16 icon home screen fix that works for me, but it is to my mind a must.