Well, was talking to a friend earlier, and she told me government started to ask phone companies to put in GPS chips into cell phones and 99% phones after 2005 have GPS chip build in, so when we call 911, the government can know where we are... at first I though it's not possible, because if is it so, then there won't be phones that actually said "Build in GPS" ? so she said the phone companies just want to earn more$... and yeah I knew how cheap a GPS chips are nowadays... anyway even I though it was a joke or something, I look into it more, and GPS chips build into a cell phone by factory, required by law, seems to be true...
Read it on few other web page saying "Cell phone companies didn't originally want to put GPS receivers into cell phones. But several years ago, the Federal Communications Commission required them to come up with a way to locate their customers for rescue workers and 911 calls."
and "There is a small GPS unit built into the phone, This unit uses the GPS system to determine you location. When you call the cellular 911 operator this information is sent to the 911 system. Below is an Excerpt from the Nov 19th 2005 Milwaukee Journal that dedscribes the system and it's limitations.
Even in counties that will be able to locate cell phone callers to 911, a variety of factors, including the location of wireless towers, tall buildings, bad weather and even sunspots, can affect the system's accuracy, said Richard Tuma, director of emergency preparedness for Waukesha County, the first county in the state to implement the technology.
Two technologies, which work together in most areas, are used to notify 911 call centers of the location of cell phone callers.
One uses global positioning system technology, in which GPS-equipped phones receive satellite signals and relay the location coordinates to the 911 center receiving the call.
The other technology uses three cell towers to "triangulate" the coordinates of the 911 caller.
The GPS system is more accurate, Tuma said, and is capable of locating a caller within 50 meters (about 165 feet) 67% of the time. The triangulation technology can locate a caller within 150 meters 67% of the time, he said. Those standards have been mandated by the Federal Communications Commission.
But each system has its flaws, Tuma said.
To get an accurate GPS location, a caller needs to have a properly equipped cell phone and be standing outside. Being inside any structure, to some degree even a car, can skew the coordinates being picked up from the satellites, he said.
"The GPS system needs a line of sight to the satellites," he said.
Cloudy, rainy and snowy weather also can interfere with both technologies, and nearby tall buildings can throw off the triangulation system, Tuma said."
And I also see this software mologogo can unlock some of the GPS in phones in order to use it as a tracking device...
But since the Universal is made in the middle of 2005, it doesn't have the hidden GPS build in Chip, right?
Thanks
I think the triangulation method is more common for locating callers. The Uni doesn't have built in GPS, if it did they'd certainly advertise it as an additional feature!
Bad news for you - your parents fooled you when they told you Santa is bringing the gifts on xmas.
Don't believe in anything what's written in the web.
there is a slot but no radio rom
Hi SOG,
the Universal hardware has a slot free were you could solder in a GPS chip. The missing chip is a RFR6250. This builds up the GPS backend for MSM6250 chipset.
But there will be no chance to use it, even with the chip soldered.
What is missing, is an ugly hacked radio rom to access the hardware in a proper way.
Regards
Highc
I see! thanks for all the input guys~ I am gonna try to install trackme and see how it goes with my Universal and BT GPS
I use Google Maps
on a few devices. Universal is the only one that does not provide the current location, reads 'feature is unavailable for your device' or something along those lines. So current location has to be entered manually if one wants to get directions to and fro.
enigma1nz said:
on a few devices. Universal is the only one that does not provide the current location, reads 'feature is unavailable for your device' or something along those lines. So current location has to be entered manually if one wants to get directions to and fro.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have no problem with google maps and my GPS (although I have sto set manually)
I have no complaints with my gps. I have tomtom. I only need to start my tomtom software and take out my gps device out of my glovebox and press on. They connect automaticly with each other (eg turning on bt and connecting). Im only using gps in my car. So really i maybe only waste 10 seconds out of my life with my jasjar not having gps...
Related
I was watching the idiot box the other day and it indicated that due to the 911 phone issue and requirement, all mobile phones were required to be able to be located to an address when calling 911, and thus all phones were required to have GPS unit installed, is this correct?
If that is so, are these phones illegal in the US as they dont have one, or do they have one and we dont know about it?
In the UK it is possible to track a mobile phone, and is done with 999 call in certain circumstances a number of ways. But I don't believe they use GPS in any of them yet. the main way is to tri-anglated (spelt sommit like that!) where the signal came from, which pin-points it to a faily small, but not perfect, radius.
The US are normally slightly more advanced with that sort of thing, but probably use a similar system.
Sorry, I just read your post again, the located to an address might be what we in UK do as a Subscriber Check, which is how we locate the owners of mobile phones in the police in UK. It can only be done in certain circumstances again, due to human rights, data protections, etc etc. But does not locate where the phone is when the signal was made, instead informs us who owns and registered the phone, and to what address.
Great if the phone is a contract phone.... But with PAYG it's not always that simple... you can pick these up anywhere now, and some people don't bother registering them...
When you use your mobile phone it can usually communicate with more than 1 base station & pick the nearest, it will also identify which transmitter on the base station has the strongest signal. You may also move between base stations as signal strength varies.
This information along with the amount of time to send & receive a signal can be used to identify the location of the mobile.
If the mobile can only see 1 base station it can be used to identify the location of the mobile in relation to the base station along with the distance.
If it can see 2 or more base stations it can be used to triangulate location.
Hope this helps.
Mike
Operators are required to upgrade their networks to support E911 service and have (I seem to remember) until November 2006 to complete said upgrade. There is presently no provision requiring individual handsets to provide GPS coordinates - or any other location-indicating function. There are several initiatives being explored that, if they come to fruition, would require location-reporting functions to be an integral part of new handsets.
Many of the dumb phones (Motorola etc) do already have some kind of GPS receiver, mostly AGPS (Assisted GPS) where the mobile network provides time, ephemeris and almanach, and the receiver only needs to listen to the sat time.
But only the HP iPAQ 6515 and 6915 have a similar chip at the moment, other smartphones or Pocket PC phones (like the Universal) don't have it. With all the hype around LBS it won't take long, maybe two or three generations of devices, until this is standard anyhow.
The E911 compliance has been delayed over and over again, and will be delayed through november. To cite the late Douglas Adams "I like deadlines, especially the swooshing sound they make when they pass by."
I was told by my friend who works at Sprint today that they will be unlocking the GPS in Quarter 4 of this year.
She said that originally they did not unlock it as they were having issues with the hardware and software, but are prepping to unlock it soon to us.
Sorry if this has been put out there already, but thought I would share what I heard. hopeful anyway, huh?
Is this guy a reliable source of info? Or is he a rep who hears stuff through the grapevine like the rest of us? (I've heard some crazy misunderstood info coming from people who "work for sprint")
Over at ppcgeeks.com someone dissasembled their Mogul and the general conclusion was that the GPS had been disabled via hardware, although they admit they're not sure.
The rumor also was that it would be available to us with the Rev A update due to come out soon. Although no one knew for sure where this info came from. Could be someone made it up, wishful thinking.
So, yes, this rumor has been around, but we're still waiting for someone to actually confirm it.
Honestly, I'll beleive it when I see it.
Dishe said:
Is this guy a reliable source of info? Or is he a rep who hears stuff through the grapevine like the rest of us? (I've heard some crazy misunderstood info coming from people who "work for sprint")
Over at ppcgeeks.com someone dissasembled their Mogul and the general conclusion was that the GPS had been disabled via hardware, although they admit they're not sure.
The rumor also was that it would be available to us with the Rev A update due to come out soon. Although no one knew for sure where this info came from. Could be someone made it up, wishful thinking.
So, yes, this rumor has been around, but we're still waiting for someone to actually confirm it.
Honestly, I'll beleive it when I see it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This person is a software engineer at Sprint, and she said that the reason they didn't have it unlocked in the beginning was due to a hardware/software conflict, but that it will be unlocked in an upcoming ROM update. She said that Sprint had announced it somewhere internally.
I have a few contacts in sprint, I'll try verifying this tommorow
From what I understand, the Mogul has A-GPS. This is the same GPS that allows them to find you if you make an emergency call. It does not work off sattelites but rather from cell towers.
On the bright side, it shares the same Qualcomm 7200 chip that the Kaiser will use.
Some maintain that the Kaiser has built in GPS, others claim it has no satellite antenna and requires an external antenna.
Sprint originally advertised the phone as having GPS. Now that has been removed from their advertisement.
It will be ineresting to see what will happen with the evdo rev. a upgrade later this year.
rambo6 said:
From what I understand, the Mogul has A-GPS. This is the same GPS that allows them to find you if you make an emergency call. It does not work off sattelites but rather from cell towers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly. The bottom line from what I understand is that the Mogul does not have the built-in hardware to do full GPS that will work with independent mapping software (Google, etc).
[RANT]This is getting a bit old - people claiming that A-GPS does not work off satellites.
Please do some research before posting this type of mis-information.
A-GPS is Assisted GPS. It uses information from the cellular network to ASSIST the GPS for faster TTFF.
And the Mogul uses a different chipset than the Kaiser. One uses the 7200, while the other 7500.[/RANT]
Ok... so now that you ranted... is it your opinion that the Mogul will or will not be able to do full GPS?
And actually.... A-GPS doesn't directly work off of the satellites. Since it takes a long time for a cell phone device to download the positioning data from the GPS satellites, what the A-GPS system does is let the A-GPS servers at the cell towers download and accumulate the data, the cell phones then talk to the A-GPS servers to get the data (which happens within seconds).
When A-GPS is enabled, would it have the possibility to work with Mobile GMaps ? Or is the Java still restricted?
Don't we have A-GPS already enabled? Isn't that the little GPS icon in the phone dialer? I know I have the option to turn it off/on in the phone settings just like all other agps handsets.
If something is going to be "enabled" with a new update, that means it will most likely be real standalone GPS.
TC1, no one knows that for sure. It was speculated.
I AM POSTING THIS FOR THE LAST TIME
The Mogul has the Qualcomm msm7500 as its cpu. BUILT INTO the cpu is the gpsone chipset. This is able to achieve AGPS as well as GPS. It runs in 4 different modes. To have the serial link to work with applications the chipset must be run in standalone mode.
It is on the damn phone as it is part of the cpu! It is currently not in standalone mode so there is no way to access the chip. The only true thing up in the air is whether or not the phone can obtain a satellite lock in standalone mode.
Dishe said:
Don't we have A-GPS already enabled? Isn't that the little GPS icon in the phone dialer? I know I have the option to turn it off/on in the phone settings just like all other agps handsets.
If something is going to be "enabled" with a new update, that means it will most likely be real standalone GPS.
TC1, no one knows that for sure. It was speculated.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Correct, like almost every modern cell phone, A-GPS is enabled. There is no debate there.
I agree with you regarding speculation on the "stand-alone GPS" aspect. I've never seen definitive info from HTC that says yes or no on this subject. If there is real info regarding this, some links would be nice.
HTC's site says:
It is widely rumored that this phone has a GPS chip that has been disabled. Will there be a hack or workaround to enable GPS capabilities?
Answer: Not likely, it is AGPS which requires a connected call to get data location.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sonix6 said:
HTC's site says:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thats from their wiki site, so its not necessarily true
/me keeps fingers crossed
This would be good news. I'll be keeping my fingers crossed for this.
gpsone (in most all msm chipsets including kaiser and mogul):
How gpsOne Works:
The gpsOne technology functions in four different modes of operation. Chosen automatically or specified by software, the
four modes are Standalone GPS, Mobile Station (MS)-based, MS-assisted and MS-assisted/Hybrid. In the A-GPS modes,
gpsOne technology utilizes assistance data from a location server in the wireless network in combination with A-GPS circuitry
and software in the wireless device.
Note: The common term used by standards bodies for the handset/terminal device in CDMA2000 is "Mobile Station" (MS) and in WCDMA (UMTS)/GPRS/GSM/HSDPA/EDGE is
“User Equipment” (UE). For simplicity in this document, references to the handset/terminal will be "MS," but this use implies both MS and UE.
Standalone GPS: The GPS receiver calculates a position without using any assistance data and without a connection to
the wireless network.
MS-Based: The GPS receiver calculates the position using assistance data from a location server to increase cold-start
sensitivity and reduce the start time for an initial position calculation.
MS-Assisted: The GPS receiver uses assistance data from a location server to make measurements related to its distance
from the GPS satellites, then sends this information to the location server where the position is calculated. This mode also
increases cold start sensitivity and reduces the start time for an initial position calculation.
MS-Assisted/Hybrid: Wireless network information is added to GPS measurements as part of the position calculation by
the location server, integrating the relative strengths of GPS information and available wireless network location information
for increased positioning reliability in difficult GPS environments.
In assisted operation, a gpsOne-enabled handset receives
a small “assistance data” message from a network location
server using standardized protocols
• The handset then reads information from GPS satellites to
measure its distance from all the satellites it can see (called
“ranging” information).
• The handset then uses this ranging information to create a
position “fix,” or sends the ranging information back to the
server where it can be combined with network information
to produce an even better fix.
• gpsOne also operates in Standalone mode, without requiring
any assistance data from the network
straight from the gpsOne document.
interesting indeed... question is, will Sprint release firmware that allows it to run in standalone mode?
I suppose the truth is, even if it doesn't, someone can figure out how to enable it with some sort of hack eventually since its just software controlled according to this document.
has anyone played with this reg key?
\HKCU\ControlPanel\PhoneExtendFunction\CDMA\GPSOneSetting = 0
Edit: the value does not contain a space between "GPSOne" and "Setting", but vbulletin modifies my text when i post....
I don't know if this info helps or not... I spoke to a HTC TS and they told me the 6800 has GPS but is sprint decision to enable it or not. He also told me that it can be unlock but sprint is the only one with the code and he can not provide me with that info.
New poster old reader, may be found some info.
I found Many info that may me can help somebodies about the msm 7500 (gpsOne technologie)...It is hard to know what to believe 'cause half/half
people say that this is impossible, and the other half say that gonna happen soon. I think that we should make our own idea by our own knowledge . I found many topic on many forum (htc, gpsunderground,here...ask me if interressed) One Qualcomm offical site i've got pdf about msm chips, and gpsOne tech... (Snap track location service for gpsOne may be a good start point to invest)
Interessing link's:
FCC test repport for tita100 (titan) (That include plane mode settings):
https://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas...lledFromFrame=N&application_id=391628&fcc_id=
Here it seem to be codes:
http://www.wlt.net.cn/index0/FD-800/pdf/CNI FD-800 gpsOne Menual ver1 0_0117.pdf
Similar:
http://www.wlt.net.cn/index0/FD-800/pdf/FD-800_Application_Guide ver1 0(1).pdf
And found other about SDK from Qualcomm API's seem to be aivalaible to third party dev. Also seem to be hard to be registred as dev. But hope...
And if internal budies have code it is just a time question before a solution.
So i wish that i'm not making more mistake or false info...if tell me.
And for gps freak who will tell that different anthenna needed, diffrent frequencies for GPS...see the end of the document FD-800 manual (2nd link).
So thank for this helpfull forum, forgive my poor english expression, and lack of programming knoledge , my is disignig pcb, and electrical pannels, but not to programme them's( not enough )...
The other day the GPS had the weirdest issue. I was stuck in traffic and decided to turn on Google Maps to find out how long the traffic is going to be. To my disbelief, the GPS showed me in a different town and MOVING on the street and then onto some freeway about 50 miles from my location. I thought the GPS satellites are screwed up but my car was showing me in the right place (and never has made such a stupid error).
Makes me wonder if the GPS info is actually going to Google servers and coming back to the phone as I guess I was getting someone else's GPS data and the lines were crossed somehow. This continued to about 30 minutes as I was enjoying the error and wondering at the same time. Holding the phone out of the window and stuff did not work. Eventually I reboot (oops! I meant I took the battery out because HTC apparently thinks we never need to reboot te G1 so there is no PIN hole for reboot like most other phones).
has anyone else experienced the same issue?
brooklynite said:
The other day the GPS had the weirdest issue. I was stuck in traffic and decided to turn on Google Maps to find out how long the traffic is going to be. To my disbelief, the GPS showed me in a different town and MOVING on the street and then onto some freeway about 50 miles from my location. I thought the GPS satellites are screwed up but my car was showing me in the right place (and never has made such a stupid error).
Makes me wonder if the GPS info is actually going to Google servers and coming back to the phone as I guess I was getting someone else's GPS data and the lines were crossed somehow. This continued to about 30 minutes as I was enjoying the error and wondering at the same time. Holding the phone out of the window and stuff did not work. Eventually I reboot (oops! I meant I took the battery out because HTC apparently thinks we never need to reboot te G1 so there is no PIN hole for reboot like most other phones).
has anyone else experienced the same issue?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The GPS is not being relayed to google... but google maps may be the thing that is wrong here. You can't get your "lines crossed" when using google maps but the maps may be downloading the wrong set. I know I have seen it do some weird things but that is expected to happen when you have several countries you have to have maps for.
As for the reboot issue... is it really that hard to hold down the power button? You do realize that the pin hole on previous devices is for emergencies only. It could really screw up the phone. Similarly like using your computer and unpluging it while it is on... or just pressing its reset button.
Maybe this is the reason for your problems with your G1.
I was just browsing my location and found that the location was in my local Radio Shack that was 2 blocks away. I tried to refresh but wouldn't allow me to.
G1 uses assisted GPS, which performs some calculations away from your phone. Could have been your A-GPS server was sending back some faulty data.
Some Application in G1 read Location info from Proprietary GPS Chip and also relies on Cell Tower GPS Coordination if GPS Signals is not available, in India my Airtel Company have Bad GPS Coordination in my Cell Tower, I Personally know which Cell Tower i am hooked to while i am at home but the Cell GPS Coordination is 8 Miles away from my Cell Tower.
Check that your GPS Signal were Strong and you have not just started seeing maps when that error occured.
I think it was stong. I had all my bars full and the 3g logo on it. Oh well I'll probably fiddle with it a little more tomorrow after I try to get a screen protector for the phone
I thought the problem had gone away until last night it happened again, with one difference. I still had me being shown 20-30 miles away (interestingly not across the globe but simply 30 miles away) the problem corrected itself after about 5 minutes.
I have a car GPS and a portable GPS and I have never seen this happen before. The issue is definately the A-GPS. I always thought during WAR the military may scramble the GPS data to confuse the enemy, I guess that is what promted Europeans to install their own GPS that is much more accurate than ours.
And there are controversies over this as well. Google is recording my location and my cell towers and IP addresses and URLs according to its NO privacy policy. This is definitely not fun.
Sending my GPS info to Google servers (which is in fact the case) without me knowing it and sending it back to my phone through internet channels it not something I am comfortable with. Especially if Google releases information to law enforcement one day that may be incorrect showing me somewhere I really was not at!
CORRECTION: A-GPS is for phones without GPS. It does not apply to this thread.
brooklynite said:
CORRECTION: A-GPS is for phones without GPS. It does not apply to this thread.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Where do you get your information? aGPS is for phones with GPS... it uses a data connection to locate you within so many meters than uses the GPS signal to pinpoint so you are located faster.
brooklynite said:
CORRECTION: A-GPS is for phones without GPS. It does not apply to this thread.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wrong.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GPS_Phone
http://www.apple.com/iphone/features/gps.html
I have the same dxmn problem with the gps f-ing up. It started with RC30...When I was on RC19...I had NO PROBLEMS with gps.
It would pinpoint my location in 5sec. Now it's take 10-15min to pinpoint me. Google need to fix this fast.
whether it is related to this thread or not...A-GPS....
, generally abbreviated as A-GPS, enhances the startup performance of a GPS satellite-based positioning system. It is used extensively with GPS-capable cellular phones
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
same problem here. i also think it started with the update.
Guys, I am not wrong.
A-GPS as Google calls it (and there are other versions of it), is for phones without a GPS chip (thats how Google Maps find you on a T-Mobile WING), it started after an fcc mandate to be able to locate 911 callers from cell phone. It finds your location using a triangulation of the cell towers you are connected to and this particular technology and the extensive data that is required is owned by Google however Google may not call it AGPS.
http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/11/28/google-mobile-maps-pinpoints-your-location-without-gps/
Now it seems to me that Google is enhancing its data network of cell towers using our phones to collect location data. So it collects the cell towers we are connected to with the strength+ the GPS info from our phones and puts all this data in a server to that non-GPS phones using Google Maps can have a better triangulation as more data is gathered from across the country. Eventually the system could be perfected to locate any cell phone without a GPS chip or to locate a cellphone with the GPS feature turned off for privacy, and that is what concerns me.
When my phone shows me 20 miles from where I am, on the freeway, cruising at 55MPH while I am sitting in traffic on the other side of town, it concerns me.
brooklynite said:
Guys, I am not wrong.
A-GPS as Google calls it (and there are other versions of it), is for phones without a GPS chip (thats how Google Maps find you on a T-Mobile WING), it started after an fcc mandate to be able to locate 911 callers from cell phone. It finds your location using a triangulation of the cell towers you are connected to and this particular technology and the extensive data that is required is owned by Google however Google may not call it AGPS.
http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/11/28/google-mobile-maps-pinpoints-your-location-without-gps/
Now it seems to me that Google is enhancing its data network of cell towers using our phones to collect location data. So it collects the cell towers we are connected to with the strength+ the GPS info from our phones and puts all this data in a server to that non-GPS phones using Google Maps can have a better triangulation as more data is gathered from across the country. Eventually the system could be perfected to locate any cell phone without a GPS chip or to locate a cellphone with the GPS feature turned off for privacy, and that is what concerns me.
When my phone shows me 20 miles from where I am, on the freeway, cruising at 55MPH while I am sitting in traffic on the other side of town, it concerns me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Where are you getting your information? The link you provide just says they support phones without GPS but they never say it is only for phones without GPS. In fact it says that it will work on phones with GPS... that is what the whole article is about that phones in the future will have GPS and google maps will be able to pinpoint their location faster. Basically it says they are using A-GPS.
In the link above he links to http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/11/28/google-earth-heading-towards-extinction/ Which says people will be able to add their own commentary about places like a wiki. Nothing about using other peoples devices to send information for google to collect.
It also has this link http://www.google.com/intl/en/press/annc/20071128_maps_mobile_my_location.html Which is googles official press link saying it will work with both GPS and non-GPS phones by using the Cell ID and a special formula that google developed to pinpoint your location within a certain amount of distance. Nothing says it uses other peoples GPS signals. In fact it says "This approximation is anonymous, as Google does not gather any personally identifiable information or associate any location data with personally identifiable information as part of the My Location feature."
All in all I think you are misreading and need to look over your data again.
neoobs said:
Where are you getting your information? The link you provide just says they support phones without GPS but they never say it is only for phones without GPS. In fact it says that it will work on phones with GPS... that is what the whole article is about that phones in the future will have GPS and google maps will be able to pinpoint their location faster. Basically it says they are using A-GPS.
In the link above he links to http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/11/28/google-earth-heading-towards-extinction/ Which says people will be able to add their own commentary about places like a wiki. Nothing about using other peoples devices to send information for google to collect.
It also has this link http://www.google.com/intl/en/press/annc/20071128_maps_mobile_my_location.html Which is googles official press link saying it will work with both GPS and non-GPS phones by using the Cell ID and a special formula that google developed to pinpoint your location within a certain amount of distance. Nothing says it uses other peoples GPS signals. In fact it says "This approximation is anonymous, as Google does not gather any personally identifiable information or associate any location data with personally identifiable information as part of the My Location feature."
All in all I think you are misreading and need to look over your data again.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Regardless of above, and you may be correct and I may be wrong, but the thread is getting distracted from the main subject. My main issue is this: Why is the GPS reporting me in the wrong location, and even MOVING which is weird. It was pretty obvious to me from what I saw that the Google Maps software in my phone was reading someone else's location data from someone else's GPS. I could see the person move through the streets and speed up and slow down. This makes me wonder if my locatio data is being sent to Google servers somewhere and then back to the phone (and in some cases crossed over with another persons data). This feels especially more true because Google MAPS has slowed down dramatically from finding "My Location" compared to "pre RC30" upgrade and even compared to the GPS-Chop-Free WING and even my ancient car's GPS system.
Have you talked to Google about this? I think you are just speculating what you want and have a hidden agenda. Did it locate you within so many feet? or was it a real location? If it was a real location than it couldn't be Google as it only pulls the map the actual lat, long is coming straight from the sats... possibly it pulled the wrong location for that tower while using A-GPS and then this calculated the wrong GPS coordinates.
Since you don't know what or how A-GPS works this may be hard to understand. A-GPS works by using that method you described for non-GPS cellphones to narrow the search for satalites. This doesn't find your location it only finds the vicinity. You can see the A part of A-GPS work when it says your location within so many meters. This is what works on your wing. The actual pinpoint location is based only off the GPS and isn't sent to google. Google only needs the map coordinates to download. Your GPS is what tracks you on the map. This is why google maps always load in blocks.
To fully understand a map system you must learn how maps work and be educated in the art of cairegraphy
I think the real concern is that brooklynite was seeing himself moving through traffic while he was actually stationary. I can understand that perhaps the GPS got the wrong co-ords and the incorrect map was loaded showing him in another location, but you would still expect him to be shown stationary in the wrong location. So why would it show him moving when he was stationary?
The fact that he was moving on the map means the data must have been coming from another device doesn't it? How else could you explain it?
I would be concerned too.
neoobs said:
.... Did it locate you within so many feet? or was it a real location?...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A real location about 50 miles away from my location. Somewhere I have never been since I have had this phone so it cannot be using the old data in my phone as sometimes it shows my locations from "last night".
...possibly it pulled the wrong location for that tower while using A-GPS and then this calculated the wrong GPS coordinates...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I always have the "use wireless networks" off, afterall, the GPS chip is one of the main reasons I switched to the G1 from my older WING.
....
I have to add that I am amazed by the GPS accuracy, it even notices when I cross the stree, turn into a driveway or the side of the street I am standing on. When I switch to Sat. view, it literally shows my exact spot on the sidewalk, not in the middle of the street like a car GPS does.
Probably getting too far off topic but car GPS units are just as accurate, it's just that most of them have a correction feature to fudge your position onto the nearest road on the map if for some reason it is not. For the most part a driver doesn't care where he is on the road in relation to the curb....only that he is on the road he thinks he should be on.
Yesterday, our dog ran off in the woods. She was OK, but she got too far then couldn't find us, and the puppy kicked in and she started running..
They have GPS dog collars, but they either require a (fairly large) monthly fee, or, like the Garmin ones, are $600+. I only want one to snap on her collar when we go in the woods, so that if she does run off again or ever get hurt, I can find her.
BUT: I want to track it on my phone (since it's with me all the time and I get service everywhere). Is there such a device?
I would be interested in this, too.
Me too, but for my girlfriend ;-)
She calls me serveral times per week lost so I bought her a Garmin for Xmas but she is techno-challenged. Ok she is not the sharpest tool in the shed but she is the sweetest ;-)
No such thing as a terrestrial GPS transmitter for public use.
Our phones, Garmin and TomTom, et al, devices, are GPS receivers.
The geosynchronous GPS satellites are the transmitters.
The mobile units, such as Garmins and our phones, listen for data streams from multiple satellites (that is why the more satellites "seen", the more accurate your location) and cell towers (in the case of smarphones). All these transmitters, which are pre-programmed with their location information, are saying "this is me and this is where I am". The reciever takes this information and calculates the mobile unit's location relative to the transmitters. Since the transmitters are telling the world where they are and the receiver has figured out where it is relative to them it can conclude "this is where I am".
The reason the "trackers" require a subscription is that, once the mobile unit figures out its location based upon its calculations from the satellite data streams, it sends its location to the service which makes it available to the subscriber.
I don't know what dedicated doggy trackers cost, but several cellphones are available from providers with a service like this. ATT has FamilyMap
https://familymap.wireless.att.com/finder-att-family/howWorks.htm
Verizon has Family Locator
http://support.vzw.com/clc/features/data_services/family_locator.html
and you have your imagination.
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"EDIT" UPDATE (7 oct. 2010)
Well you dont need to go actually much further then this first post!
Things got out of context over here, furthermore I decided to give
my external gps receiver a break and run some more tests with
the internal one of my SGS.
And the results I got were much better than any
other phone I tested before. Except the ones with a build-in SirfstarIII chipset.
If you have Gps issues,Just move on to this thread:
2nd edit (20 Oct, 2010): That thread was removed without any warning or explanation so I posted the videos in another thread:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=8903056#post8903056
END EDIT
RCinFLA said:
Like to share my experience as cellphone chipset designer and my dealing with various parties involved with GPS in phones.
Many of the issues are caused by business interests involved and there are quite a few parties plying to control location based services revenue stream.
SUPL, secure user plane protocol AGPS was created by network operators interest in mine, with the objective of putting them in the controlling position when it comes to extracting revenue from location based applications on their network.
Control plane AGPS is a general system where network operator independent entities can create a assist server along with possible services offering. They can encrypt their access to allow only subcribed (paying) users to access their service. The network operators has little control over this scheme.
With SUPL, in most cases, network operators outsource the location server function. Network operator hold location of their cell tower, as a total database, in close confidence. The network tower locations are also very dynamic over time. I believe the AGPS contractors don't get reliable and timely updates from the network operators.
Then there are third party business like 'Skyhook' which is trying to work around the network operator roadblocks by establishing a 'ponzi scheme' server database. If your phone has a good GPS location lock and detects a WiFi network, Skyhook's background app will have your phone send a message to their server reporting the SSID of the WiFi and its location. They then sell their server AGPS service to other companies, like Motorola, for inclusion in their phone software. Motorola may run into conflict with network operators. A network operator might refuse to buy a Motorola phone model with Skyhook installed on it. I noticed from the Captivate forum that the ATT version of Galaxy S has Skyhook capability.
Google is the 900 pound gorilla and is trying to wrestle control of location based services from network operators.
Finally there are the GPS chip manufacturers. Almost all of them have an AGPS server scheme of their own and try to promote it. The frontend processing (up to recovery of raw 50 bps satellite data) has unique hardware and firmware that are considered proprietary by the GPS chip manufacturer. In most cases a phone manufacturers like Samsung or Motorola are not allowed to have the software source code for this firmware or information on the actual interface protocol to the GPS chip. They are given a bundled binary file that the phone manufacturer software just dumps to the GPS chip at startup.
It is now up to the phone manufacturer to implement the GPS chip and antenna systems (along with WiFI, Bluetooth, Near Field Comm, and multi-band cellular) and provide software interfaces and drivers necessary to run the GPS function.
For size and cost reasons most recent GPS chips rely on the main application processor within the phone to actually do the GPS fix calculations. The software for this is provided by the GPS chip supplier but it must be coordinated with the particular applications processor chip used by the phone. It must share processing time slicing with the apps processor and work with operating system software resources such as RAM and ROM management running on the phone.
This is the first obsticle as most of the GPS chip suppliers have little expertise in the OS's that may be used (like Android or Symbian). The phone manufacturer usually has to provide help to create and debug the GPS driver software but the drivers are responsible/owned by the GPS chip supplier. There can be unique hardware/software interfaces that must be dealt with, like providing GPS TCXO calibration and cellular corrected frequency timebase to the GPS chip.
Then there is the OS's GPS interface. There can be translation software layers involved here. One such interface is based on GPS NMEA protocol but with additional hooks for things unique to phone operation like battery saver power strobing, and the complicated Secure User Plane or Control plane interface.
The AGPS system design landscape is litered with intellectual properties (patents) by many parties. Qualcomm is a dominate player here since their aquistion of SnapTrak company years ago. Royalties are paid to Qualcomm for every WCDMA phone sold, not only in AGPS area, but on basic CDMA patents used in a UMTS (Wideband CDMA) phones.
Now as to Samsung Galaxy S implementation of Broadcom GPS.
I think there is a lot of evidence that Samsung had early issues with the GPS antenna contact hardware. This has probably been corrected on recently manufactured phones.
I think the firmware supplied by Broadcom has the bandwidth of the correlators tighted down to provide greater sensitivity. This is great as long as there is a very good AGPS system to provide initial satellite ephemeris data. Without a good AGPS network providing satellite information the initial search and lock can take a very long time with narrow bandwidth frequency bins.
I have not seen evidence with my experience that my two Vibrants are receiving any reliable AGPS information from the T-Mobile network. They do seem to get rough Almanac satellite info from Google or other third party apps. These may be based on WiFi detection more then T-Mobile cell tower locations.
In LBStest I noticed that GPS Operational Mode has been set to 'Standalone'. I interpret this to mean AGPS is deactived. I don't see any difference when I switch to MS based assist, and clear the GPS saved memory to prevent it from prejudicing time to first fix lock test. Switching SUPL server to supl.google.com and port 7276 (with MS based operational setting) just seems to make my phone lockup for short periods of time.
Once phone does get full lock on satellites its performance is quite good. (my two Vibrant's were purchased in early Feb 2011). It rivals my Garmin SiRFstar III based GPS unit in locked on sensitivity while inside a building.
I think the AGPS system issues will get worked out over time.
The Qualcomm based CDMA2000 systems (like Verizon) will likely have better initial coordination on AGPS system operation. CDMA2000 also provides network timebase directly compatible with GPS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
*******************************************************************
All this nagging about GPS.....that it is not working in many devices and it's working in other many.....and of course I am talking about those ones who still would go for ONLINE gps navigation.....
In my humble opinion, what you guys should be asking yourselfs and the big corporations is, why nowadays, 99% of the smartphones(so not just sgs), even the most expensive ones are build with weak, less capable internal gps receivers, forcing users to go online(celular network /a-gps) or using external bluetooth gps receivers to get stable satellite fixes that means stable navigation.
Years ago, many of the first smartphones came with sirfstar chipsets or alike , so once again, why not now? That's the question that should not be ignored or forgotten.
A friend of mine, that would not dare to pay more than a 100 box for a phone, bought an ancient ETEN device on a sale for 40 box with that old windows mobile 5 and guess what...the internal gps get fast fixes just like any standalone gps device because it got the same sirfstarIII chipset
Why the heck, the expensive so called high-end smartphones of today are not build with better gps chipsets? Why A-gps? So we are forced to get data accounts?
And what happens when I want to navigate abroad? Roaming?
For data transfer and internet I use wifi; I have it at home and I find hotspots everywhere...I will save those extra 120 euros(or more) per year (data account costs)
And nobody will force me to get one(internet/data account); not even for gps navigation that I so much use..
I use gps navigation only offline, using a external bluetooth device on a daily basis and, many times abroad; it works like a charm on my SGS; and I am talking about serious GPS car navigation software like iGo, Sygic, Navigon etc. .
Don't even use Google maps or alike.
I cannot tell you how my sgs is doing on online navigation, I dont have a data account so I wont even try it.
But once Samsung get this online gps navigation thing fixed, you guys should concentrate your energy on the real issue:
The A-gps scam
And for all the corporations out there: Just deliver a device with a capable gps chipset and you will sell millions..
And for all the users out there: Just get a good compact external bluetooth gps receiver and stop nagging....
Thanks to 3rd party developers, the Android OS on my SGS can be "fooled" and I can connect any navigation software to my bluetooth gps receiver threw programs like Bluetooth Gps Mouse Unlimited and Gps Provider.
I do have to " allow mock locations" at settings first...
« »
¿Ein? You don need data to get GPS fix, A-GPS is only an aid to get faster fixes
I thtink you're a littel misinformed
LOL.. o boy.. the AGPS is to help say if your indoors so you can get a faster lock... the phone will work without it.
Ummm I can see why you would think what you think, but I do believe you are wrong.
Firstly: as far as I'm aware, the SGS has the same GPS chip as the latest TomTom standalone unit.
Secondly: I guess AGPS is a data feature, it uses the triangulation of cell towers and pulls information to assist a sat lock, but it is not really a different way of using GPS. Ultimately you still need to get a sat lock to use a GPS App.
So it may speed up this lock, but it won't replace it. It just means it'll take you a little longer to get a sat lock than without it.
So you have the choice use it or don;t use it, no-one is forcing you to use data.
Logicalstep
Oletros said:
¿Ein? You don need data to get GPS fix, A-GPS is only an aid to get faster fixes
I thtink you're a littel misinformed
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol those online translators dont work that smoothly...
I don't need a data/internet account to use celular networks aid, that means a-gps.That mean going online via 3g or 2g...
But IF I don.t have a data/internet account added to my phone subscription, my phone costs will be much higher depending on my use....
You are missing the point anyway...
betoNL said:
Lol those online translators dont work that smoothly...
I don't need a data/internet account to use celular networks aid, that means a-gps.That mean going online via 3g or 2g...
But IF I don.t have a data/internet account added to my phone subscription, my phone costs will be much higher depending on my use....
You are missing the point anyway...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, you're missing the point, you don't need any kind of data connection to use GPS, you can use it offline
Exactly...already the first line of Wikipedia says it: "Assisted GPS, generally abbreviated as A-GPS, is a system which can improve the startup performance of a GPS satellite-based positioning system."
There is, however, a related issue w/r/t A-GPS and a data account. Back on WinMo, I could download the ephemeris data to speed up the GPS fix for one week in advance (I think it was called QuickGPS or something on my HTC TouchHD, also had sth. like it on an old Eten). This allowed you to get a quick fix for said week, even without a data connection. Android, on the other hand, seems to download this data on the fly - meaning that if you don't have a data account you will experience a slow fix until your almanac has been filled "naturally" by the satellites you're seeing. I experienced that while on vacation this year without a roaming data contract - it took me a good 3-5 minutes to get the first fix and it was good from there on (well, as good as the SGS GPS gets ). I'd love to have some tool that does exactly what QuickGPS did, but I am not aware of anything like it.
TriC_101 said:
LOL.. o boy.. the AGPS is to help say if your indoors so you can get a faster lock... the phone will work without it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have always smile in my face when someone thinks he can get a lock indoors..
Yes in a cartoon box you can. Not in real building I'm afraid.
And for all those who think SGS's GPS is usable without A.
Try it.
You will see.
Dont post things you just caught on wikipedia.
xan said:
I have always smile in my face when someone thinks he can get a lock indoors..
Yes in a cartoon box you can. Not in real building I'm afraid.
And for all those who think SGS's GPS is usable without A.
Try it.
You will see.
Dont post things you just caught on wikipedia.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can get a lock on 6-7 Sat no problem inside.... and so can lots of others.. don't know what your doing wrong but its not hard to get a lock inside.
Pics or it didnt happen
seems you all are little misinformed as to how the gps on android specifically sgs works. It is actually three systems at work here. Gps standalone without gprs and cell triangulation which gets lock within a minute same as standalone bluetooth units (they also take up to a minute from cold boot but because generally it is plugged in the car lighter and always on people think its blazing fast).then you have agps that downloads preloads data regarding satellite location in regards to your position via network instead of downloading same data directly from satellite thereby saving time. Both these can be used without checking network location in settings so to recap if your network location is unchecked you are still using agps as long as you have network connection (data connection that is).and samsungs system for agps being better than others cause it downloads data for while week as opposed to others downloading data everyone gps is turned on. Third level is network triangulation via cell towers that gets you that instant lock at the cost of accuracy useful mainly to let apps get your general location without having to engage real gps thereby saving power as well as give maps a chance to start calculating route while gps is still getting lock therefore appearing to operate faster.
Idan73 said:
Gps standalone without gprs and cell triangulation which gets lock within a minute same as standalone bluetooth units (they also take up to a minute from cold boot but because generally it is plugged in the car lighter and always on people think its blazing fast)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Standalone gps's got their batterys, and thus they start "warm".
Thing is, standalone SRIF3/4 gps gets a warm lock without any AGPS nor network triangulation within 5-10 seconds. SGS (and bunch of top-of-the pack devices) cant come even close to that.
the GPS on the SGS works fine offline
i don't even have data on when going on long road trips
you just need an offline GPS software with maps, like CoPilot or some other one you like
xan said:
Standalone gps's got their batterys, and thus they start "warm".
Thing is, standalone SRIF3/4 gps gets a warm lock without any AGPS nor network triangulation within 5-10 seconds. SGS (and bunch of top-of-the pack devices) cant come even close to that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sure they do. Sgs warm lock is 5 to 10 seconds as well. To test get the lock first then turn of data and network lock then start gps.restart of the phone same as restart of the standalone counts as a cold boot and takes about minute.
xan said:
Pics or it didnt happen
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here ya go.... I don't have to prove anything just look on youtube.. This is the phone on for just 10sec.. if I had waited it would get down to about 10 feet... this pic was taken in a room where I get the lowest signal. and I live in a Condo with 2 foot concrete walls.. I don't have a digital camera.. this was taken with my old Samsung dumb phone.. but it does prove you can get a lock inside no problem.. also if i'm in a house I can get 6-7 sats to lock in the condo 5 at the most in that room.
only 3 sats and maybe the walls are thin
Polarfuchs said:
only 3 sats and maybe the walls are thin
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL Trust me the walls and not thin.. i'm on the 10th floor of a 25 floor Condo complex. I get alot more signal is a house.. Now my X10 can get about 7 Sats locked in the same room. and down to 5 feet. but the point was you can get a lock inside..
I'll try it.
I live in a 3 stories house at ground floor. The shutters are down and I'm 1 meter away from the windows.
After 3 Minutes I get 5 sats in view but none used.
I'll hang on.
Even after 10 Minutes I only have 5 satellites in View and zero in Use.
So no fix for me.
The numbers on top of the bars are from 15 to 25.
Logicalstep said:
Ummm I can see why you would think what you think, but I do believe you are wrong.
Firstly: as far as I'm aware, the SGS has the same GPS chip as the latest TomTom standalone unit.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Most of Tomtom devices got a SiRFstarIII™ GPS chipset
If the GS got such one the amount of GPS threads in this Forum would be reduced considerably
What is your awareness based on?
Oletros said:
No, you're missing the point, you don't need any kind of data connection to use GPS, you can use it offline
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Idan73 said:
seems you all are little misinformed as to how the gps on android specifically sgs works. It is actually three systems at work here. Gps standalone without gprs and cell triangulation which gets lock within a minute same as standalone bluetooth units (they also take up to a minute from cold boot but because generally it is plugged in the car lighter and always on people think its blazing fast).then you have agps that downloads preloads data regarding satellite location in regards to your position via network instead of downloading same data directly from satellite thereby saving time. Both these can be used without checking network location in settings so to recap if your network location is unchecked you are still using agps as long as you have network connection (data connection that is).and samsungs system for agps being better than others cause it downloads data for while week as opposed to others downloading data everyone gps is turned on. Third level is network triangulation via cell towers that gets you that instant lock at the cost of accuracy useful mainly to let apps get your general location without having to engage real gps thereby saving power as well as give maps a chance to start calculating route while gps is still getting lock therefore appearing to operate faster.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL... Lets put things in perspective :
1) Wich car navigation software do you use
2) when you UNcheck wireless networks =a-gps(in location and security) and you CHECk "use GPS satellites = build-in gps receiver and then you go outside, you start your car navigation software in you gs( taking into consideration that you have the righ map installed) how long does it take to get a fix so you can start driving?
3) Do you know the difference between a cold and warm start? Why the heck some of you mention car lighters????
Please just answer me these 3 questions and meanwhile I will post some educative information