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Are our Universals compatible with the new T-Mobile 3G network in the US? Ive searched the internet, some say no, others say yes....
ATLDON said:
Are our Universals compatible with the new T-Mobile 3G network in the US? Ive searched the internet, some say no, others say yes....
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Well I don´t know in USA, but in México with my Uni I can´t connect to any 3G network as Universal has only for Europe and Asia networks, I think is the same for your country, shame...
orb3000 said:
Well I don´t know in USA, but in México with my Uni I can´t connect to any 3G network as Universal has only for Europe and Asia networks, I think is the same for your country, shame...
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Interesting.......no tweaks?
Just have to see....3G won't be available in my area until the beginning of the year anyway
UPDATE:
T-Mobile 3G works on my I-Mate Jasjar in the Jacksonville Florida area. The only adjustments I had to make was a minor MMS settings change.
Anybody in the northwest US able to connect to T-Mobile's 3G network?
I try to force my band to WCDMA and specify the UMTS freq as 2100, but then it simply doesn't seem to want to register with the network. When I set it to auto, it appears to simply be using GPRS.
Somewhat related, anybody know of a way to force displaying an icon indicating EDGE vs default GPRS connection?
Edit: I just recalled that there's no EDGE support on the Uni, unless I'm mistaken, so disregard that...
Edit (again): So if I'm understanding this properly... The Uni only operates on UMTS/WCDMA/whatever 2100, not 1700, which T-Mobile US uses. It was designed for uk/other 3G usage, not future US 3G usage. So we've got 3G support outside the US, but as far as I can tell - we shouldn't be able to use 3G in the US, at least on T-Mobile's network, since they're using 1700 mhz band/AWS range, and the 2100 mhz band used elsewhere is not compatible. I THINK. I'm honestly just learning about this sort of thing now as I go, despite having had my Uni for a while and having known about T-Mobile rolling out 3G coverage for some time.
ATLDON said:
UPDATE:
T-Mobile 3G works on my I-Mate Jasjar in the Jacksonville Florida area. The only adjustments I had to make was a minor MMS settings change.
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Could you give some more details on this?
Please correct me if I am wrong, but I think the deal is basically, as postulated by orb3000 - no 3G for US Universal users.
I was told by a T-Mobile rep on the phone that if I can connect to 1700 or 2100 mhz band, I should be able to use 3G... So I wonder... Huh.
GRiM_BoB said:
I was told by a T-Mobile rep on the phone that if I can connect to 1700 or 2100 mhz band, I should be able to use 3G... So I wonder... Huh.
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Ive heard not all areas have 3G on both bands. Probably your area doesnt have 2100 mhz yet.
ATLDON said:
Ive heard not all areas have 3G on both bands. Probably your area doesnt have 2100 mhz yet.
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So can you confirm if T-Mobile uses 1700/2100 as:
1700 down/2100 up
1700 voice/2100 data
1700 OR 2100?
Because I've seen a lot of different things saying different things. =/
Incidentally, please go to http://www.dslreports.com/mspeed and tell me what speed you get on your phone.
GRiM_BoB said:
So can you confirm if T-Mobile uses 1700/2100 as:
1700 down/2100 up
1700 voice/2100 data
1700 OR 2100?
Because I've seen a lot of different things saying different things. =/
Incidentally, please go to http://www.dslreports.com/mspeed and tell me what speed you get on your phone.
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T-Mobile uses 1700 AND 2100 mhz bands....sent and recieved data ARE NOT SPLIT between the two bands.....voice and data ARE NOT split between bands.
Ill check my speed tonight when I get off work....
I can see the difference between 3G and GPRS though. I have a HTC Wizard that supports EDGE, and my Imate JasJar is only slightly faster than my Wizard. My girlfriend has the new Mobile G1 and her 3G speed run rings around my Imate JasJar internet speed this is probably so because the age of our Universals.
3G Coverage U.S 2100 Frequency With The Univerisal
ATLDON said:
T-Mobile uses 1700 AND 2100 mhz bands....sent and recieved data ARE NOT SPLIT between the two bands.....voice and data ARE NOT split between bands.
Ill check my speed tonight when I get off work....
I can see the difference between 3G and GPRS though. I have a HTC Wizard that supports EDGE, and my Imate JasJar is only slightly faster than my Wizard. My girlfriend has the new Mobile G1 and her 3G speed run rings around my Imate JasJar internet speed this is probably so because the age of our Universals.
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I have a Qtek 9000 and am waiting for the 3G coverage for my area with T-Mobile which should be in the spring of 2009. Over the past few years I have done a great deal of research on this and have also spoken to very knowledgeable Tier 3 T-Mobile staff that are familiar with this and this is what they told me. The universal will work on the 2100 frequency with T-Mobile. T-Mobile will be using the 1700 & 2100 frequency bands in the U.S. for 3G frequency. I know when I visited my relatives in Germany in 2004 Year in the summer as I can speak, read & write German as good as English even though I am first generation in the U.S. which I visit my relatives every 5 years and due to visit them in the summer of 2009 year. The 2100 band was already released in the spring of 2004 year in Germany. But since T-Mobile has only certain cities available that have the 3G coverage in the U.S. which is spotty at this time. Since the T-Mobile G1 was deployed in October this should make the rollout faster in the U.S. for the 1700 & 2100 mhz frequency. Can you please confirm on your I-mate Jasjar on what your 3G speeds are? They should be at least 384 k.p.s. It is also nice to know that the send & receive data, voice & data are not slit between the two bands of 1700 & 2100 mhz frequency.
MobileSpeedTest.com
533.35 KB/sec
Park and ATLDON, thanks for all the info - this is all very good to know, and great news for US Universal users. I'll just have to wait for 3G 2100 to be active here in Portland, then.
Oh, and ATLDON - one more question. Under your Phone Settings, where you can select GSM and UMTS band and Network Type, did you set it to Auto, or force UMTs, or did you even change anything?
GRiM_BoB said:
Park and ATLDON, thanks for all the info - this is all very good to know, and great news for US Universal users. I'll just have to wait for 3G 2100 to be active here in Portland, then.
Oh, and ATLDON - one more question. Under your Phone Settings, where you can select GSM and UMTS band and Network Type, did you set it to Auto, or force UMTs, or did you even change anything?
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I have it set on Auto.
this is interesting stuff, i just got my jasjar as an anniversary gift from my girlfriend and i love the device however anyone that has used HSDPA which i had on my kaiser before i sold it 500-900k going to GPRS has been something that would make one want to cry, and its good news to hear this because i need some form of high speed again, and i'd like to confirm this working because i am going to get a t-mobile prepaid or flex paid sim ASAP to get this going, i am in new york anyone from around here to confirm 2100Mhz?
also anyone able to do a screenshot ?
Funny, I was just trying to get an answer as to whether or not there was a delay in deploying 3G over 1700 vs 2100 mhz to a given area, and I ended up being told "definitively" that unless my handset is able to connect to both freqs, I would be unable to utilize 3G access. CONFUSION. I think there are some disconnects between staff at the T-Mobile customer support, and I haven't really gotten much further than what I would imagine to be tier-two tech support.
I trust in ATLDON's success story, so... Maybe I'll just have to wait and see.
Do you get a 3G indicator somewhere in the taskbar or system tray when you're connected? And what was the MMS setting you had to change? What server are you using for net access? Do you have the $6/mo T-MobileWeb access or one of the other plans?
Sorry for all the questions, just very curious and hopeful that I would soon be able to really use my Uni.
GRiM_BoB said:
Funny, I was just trying to get an answer as to whether or not there was a delay in deploying 3G over 1700 vs 2100 mhz to a given area, and I ended up being told "definitively" that unless my handset is able to connect to both freqs, I would be unable to utilize 3G access. CONFUSION. I think there are some disconnects between staff at the T-Mobile customer support, and I haven't really gotten much further than what I would imagine to be tier-two tech support.
I trust in ATLDON's success story, so... Maybe I'll just have to wait and see.
Do you get a 3G indicator somewhere in the taskbar or system tray when you're connected? And what was the MMS setting you had to change? What server are you using for net access? Do you have the $6/mo T-MobileWeb access or one of the other plans?
Sorry for all the questions, just very curious and hopeful that I would soon be able to really use my Uni.
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The 3G indicators don't work on the 6.1 Roms I use. I havent tried any of the WM 5 roms to see if their indicators work
The MMS connect, I had to change it from T-Mobile MMS to the Internet to send/receive multimedia.
I have the 19.99 unlimited data plan.
I use epc.tmobile.com
Are there any other US Uni users in different areas who can report 3G connectivity?
Thus far I've found my own interactions with T-Mobile tech support to be thoroughly useless in getting any sort of details on AWS/3G/2100mhz deployment (maybe I'm just not talking to the right people?)
So, a couple weeks later (and still impatient ) - anyone else in the US with a Universal able to access T-Mobile's 3G network?
ATLDON said:
MobileSpeedTest.com
533.35 KB/sec
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Interesting. 3G has a maximum of 384Kbs to get faster you need HSDPA which AFAIK the Uni does not have...
i would like to know as well i am going to be off of ATT by the 10th of January and i am in nyc i would really like to know so i can make the switch ASAP
I have just taken a job in the states and brought my phone with me. I was expecting to be able to get 3g when I insert an AT&T or T-Mobile sim card. Unfortauntely the best that the phone seems to be able to get is Edge.
After doing a bit of research it seems that in the US they are using differnt frequencies.
Does anyone know of a fix which would allow my phone to get 3g in the states?
kdrover said:
I have just taken a job in the states and brought my phone with me. I was expecting to be able to get 3g when I insert an AT&T or T-Mobile sim card. Unfortauntely the best that the phone seems to be able to get is Edge.
After doing a bit of research it seems that in the US they are using differnt frequencies.
Does anyone know of a fix which would allow my phone to get 3g in the states?
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Click to collapse
T-Mobile are, I think, UMTS 900 / 2100 (perhaps like Vodafone in the UK and elsewhere, which is why we can all use T-Mobile-based rooted HTC ROMs in our phones).
AT&T is UMTS 850 and 1900.
At the moment no phone on earth can do both UMTS 850 *and* UMTS 900. These frequencies are used to provide longer range coverage in low-density service areas - in other words, most city-edge and countryside places.
UMTS 1900, 2100 and other higher numbered frequencies are used in higher-density areas to provide more calling / data capacity, but with the downside of more limited range.
It seems (googling) that AT&T do 850/1900 and T-Mobile do 1700 (as of May '08 sez Wikipedia), though the T-Mobile MyTouch3G does 1700 and 2100....so maybe T-Mobile now do 2100 as well (at least in some places). There doesn't appear to be much, if any overlap on 3G frequencies between carriers and users must be EDGE only on the telco that doesn't match their phone. Everyone does EDGE.
In New Zealand, where I am, one carrier does 850 and the other 900...but they both support 2100....and a 3rd carrier will soon be offering 2100 later this year.....so you do get *some* 3G on just one phone in built up areas where telcos need more capacity and use 2100....but you get nothing in the countryside and have to used EDGE/GPRS.
There are about 7 UMTS frequency bands all up (Wikipedia).....so any single device is going to be seriously challenged to support all those well.....and what telco would want their phones to do that anyway? Frequency incompatibilities prevent their customers from leaving.......which explains why there aren't any phones that do all 7.
linuxluver said:
T-Mobile are, I think, UMTS 900 / 2100 (perhaps like Vodafone in the UK and elsewhere, which is why we can all use T-Mobile-based rooted HTC ROMs in our phones).
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If Vodafone (UK) & T-Mobile (US) are using the same UMTS frequencies, does this mean that I should be able to get 3g in the states? I am currently using a T-mobile (US) sim card but the phone is only getting an Edge connection. Maybe I need a ROM update??
maybe your in a area with no 3g coverage?
go to t mobiles website or better yet go here
http://coverage.t-mobile.com/default.aspx?pageType=idealer
and press the data coverage tab....are you in a purple place?
glendawg619 said:
maybe your in a area with no 3g coverage?
go to t mobiles website or better yet go here
http://coverage.t-mobile.com/default.aspx?pageType=idealer
and press the data coverage tab....are you in a purple place?
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I checked on the t-mobile site and Tampa, FL appears to be all purple.
Have you checked your settings?
Settings -> Wireless controls -> Mobile networks -> Make sure 2G only is "Un-ticked"
If it doesn't work, maybe you would like to consider selling your one on ebay and buying a Magic {or other handset} from the US
I was lamenting on my lack of foresight, getting a HD2 without researching the different bands that AT&T and T-Mobile use for 3G coverage, when just the other day...
NOTE: This was on a call to AT&T Support and the tech tells me:
a) Once unlocked from TMOUS, I should do a search on "AT&T APN's" and that if I search diligently, I will find APNs on AT&T's network that support HD2 3G Bands
b) AT&T techs, right in his data center have this working.
So I research a bit, and, apart form everyone and his brother professing to be 3G Band experts, and saying all I will see is Edge if I put the HD2 on AT&T. (Which is troublesome, since Wikipedia claims Edge is being dropped to facilitate more 3G bandwidth, so potentially I would lose even THAT).
Here is what official information I could find on the two:
The U.S. T-Mobile network predominately uses the GSM/GPRS/EDGE 1900 MHz frequency-band. T-Mobile's UMTS (3G) service is now active in over 30 major US cities
Further all official documentation states that AT&T uses:
* 850 MHz UMTS/HSPA/HSPA+ 3G
* 1900 MHz UMTS/HSPA/HSPA+ 3G
Finally look at my screenshot, taken from the GSM 3G toggle on the "Settings Tab" of Manila. I am running a NRG ROM (see signature) and I KNOW this is wishful thinking. This screen in particular is no doubt a function of the many devices NRG cooks for, but really, can anyone explain to me why this technically would NOT WORK (other than "just because", LOL)?
AT&T's CEO recently gave an interview and stated that the company's 3G service is being migrated to the 850MHz band with a target date of 2010:
http://www.intomobile.com/2009/02/24/att-3g-network-going-850mhz-nationwide-by-2010.html
For what it's worth, I think the Australian version of the HD2 might have a band that overlaps with US AT&T bands.
Whos gonna buy me one?
Mase_Mase said:
AT&T's CEO recently gave an interview and stated that the company's 3G service is being migrated to the 850MHz band with a target date of 2010:
http://www.intomobile.com/2009/02/24/att-3g-network-going-850mhz-nationwide-by-2010.html
For what it's worth, I think the Australian version of the HD2 might have a band that overlaps with US AT&T bands.
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Yes, I have been hearing the same. Problem is, I am not likely to fork out $$ for ANOTHER HD2. I just wanted to get the most out of the one I have. Thx!
if something like this WAS possible, it would have to be through something like a rogue apn setup on non-standard frequencies on ATT's network...but good luck finding anything like that, it wouldn't be able to remain a secret if it existed. also, if the hd2 had the ability to use those native frequencies, it would have had to have been certified as such by the FCC (which of course it wasn't).
To summarize, the only way to make it happen is if ATT did indeed somehow sneak in alternative-frequency apn's across it's entire network. Let us know how the search for those turns out
SmartAs$Phone said:
The U.S. T-Mobile network predominately uses the GSM/GPRS/EDGE 1900 MHz frequency-band. T-Mobile's UMTS (3G) service is now active in over 30 major US cities
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Sorry.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-Mobile_USA
3G (UMTS/HSPA/HSPA+) service by T-Mobile exclusively uses the AWS 1700/2100 MHz frequency-band, making it incompatible with other existing 3G UMTS/HSPA networks already established in the United States.
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Its not physically possible. The hardware would have to be changed. They don't make radio chips with all the bands in it. I see this all the time, some random csr from whatever company says it can be done, but its just not true. Cell phones are designed and made for a specific company. They don't make universal radios and just turn off some bands. They don't exist, though I did read a few months back that Motorala was working on making one.
Although I understand the reason for your wishful thinking (and you did do some research which is always great), unfortunately it is just that and I'll gladly (though not happily) tell you why.
As you stated "U.S. T-Mobile network predominately uses the GSM/GPRS/EDGE 1900 MHz frequency-band" which is correct (and it also uses the 850 band for edge as well....though this is usually more 'roaming' aka you're using another companies cell tower because tmobile made a contract with them to allow you). You were also correct in stating that "Further all official documentation states that AT&T uses:
* 850 MHz UMTS/HSPA/HSPA+ 3G
* 1900 MHz UMTS/HSPA/HSPA+ 3G"
Also, ironcroth was also correct in quoting that "3G (UMTS/HSPA/HSPA+) service by T-Mobile exclusively uses the AWS 1700/2100 MHz frequency-band" which alone might not answer your question.
So where is the problem if both use 1900 and 850 bands? Well, the problem is that in the hardware, there is a difference between GSM/GPRS/EDGE and 3G/UMTS/HSPA/HSPA+. In other words, you can't use 1900 and 850 Edge frequency of the HD2's radio chip to get 3G (UMTS/HSPA/HSPA+); they are incompatible. This is why phone spects always list both seperatly and not just all the frequencies that it supports.
The above reason alone will make the TmoUSA HD2 incompatible with AT&T's 3G, but there's even more. When Tmobile says that it uses the (for example) 1900 frequency band for Edge, it doesn't actually mean that it uses 1900-1999 frequencies; instead it only uses a part of that spectrum (buying the full 100 frequency range would be expensive so they only buy what they need). Instead they only use maybe something like 1943-1978. And this range will likely not overlap with the frequncies that AT&T uses for their 3G (you can look up the exact values on the internet if you'd like). This second reason is why a european phone which supports 2100 band for 3g will not work on Tmobile's 3G 2100 frequncy (because they don't actually overlap).
Lastly (and I almost forgot to mention this), the screen shot you posted from your ROM can indeed be changed by a cook to whatever they want (though it won't actually make any difference since it all depends on the hardware). However, in this case, it's likely because htc actually made the error and never updated that screen and just used it from their previous builds from previous phones (this was stated on the forums before and I'm sure you'd be able to find it given some searching).
Hope this helps.
sirphunkee said:
To summarize, the only way to make it happen is if ATT did indeed somehow sneak in alternative-frequency apn's across it's entire network. Let us know how the search for those turns out
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Quite unlikely, the AWS bands are licensed to TMO, im sure TMO would notice real quick if there were unlicensed cell towers on the AWS band and the FCC would be slapping ATT with fines pretty quick. quite alot of work goes into setting up cell towers and the frequencies each cell segment runs on, If a rouge cell tower went up overlapping TMO's frequencies, all hell would likely break loose as far as customers being able to get usable service in the area.
also as far as the terminology APN's don't operate on a "frequency" an APN is more or less and authentication/proxy server on the data network after the data has transferred over the air interface.
Maybe the best way to think of it is similar to a cell tower being like a wifi access point, and the APN being like an authenticating router/firewall on a standard tcp/ip network. yeah i know its not quite the same, but that might be a simple way to visualize it for those familiar with networking
d0ug said:
Quite unlikely, the AWS bands are licensed to TMO, im sure TMO would notice real quick if there were unlicensed cell towers on the AWS band and the FCC would be slapping ATT with fines pretty quick. quite alot of work goes into setting up cell towers and the frequencies each cell segment runs on, If a rouge cell tower went up overlapping TMO's frequencies, all hell would likely break loose as far as customers being able to get usable service in the area.
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Exactly
d0ug said:
also as far as the terminology APN's don't operate on a "frequency" an APN is more or less and authentication/proxy server on the data network after the data has transferred over the air interface.
Maybe the best way to think of it is similar to a cell tower being like a wifi access point, and the APN being like an authenticating router/firewall on a standard tcp/ip network. yeah i know its not quite the same, but that might be a simple way to visualize it for those familiar with networking
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Right, very true...I should have said "apn's attached to alternative-frequency radios" Are you a Ham d0ug?
sirphunkee said:
Exactly
Right, very true...I should have said "apn's attached to alternative-frequency radios" Are you a Ham d0ug?
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Click to collapse
Haha no, though i do have scanners and listen in on HAMs sometimes and have read up on the stuff somewhat. never gotten myself licensed.
On the subject of scanners, there isnt all that much interesting to listen too anymore. Here in tampa the police and sheriff are on analog trunked now, so its impossible to follow anything without a trunking scanner, and about the only other things you can listen to are cabbies, tow truck drivers, aircraft, and hams. I don't even know why scanners still have the 800mhz blocks anymore, analog amps cellular has been dead a few years now. you find lots of digital noise scanning around though, just about everything is transmitted digitally now. i've got an icom R20 that goes from 150khz all the way upto 3ghz
So why don't you put in an AT&T sim card with a 3G data plan and let us know if you get 3G on your HD2?
Svegetto said:
Although I understand the reason for your wishful thinking (and you did do some research which is always great), unfortunately it is just that and I'll gladly (though not happily) tell you why.
As you stated "U.S. T-Mobile network predominately uses the GSM/GPRS/EDGE 1900 MHz frequency-band" which is correct (and it also uses the 850 band for edge as well....though this is usually more 'roaming' aka you're using another companies cell tower because tmobile made a contract with them to allow you). You were also correct in stating that "Further all official documentation states that AT&T uses:
* 850 MHz UMTS/HSPA/HSPA+ 3G
* 1900 MHz UMTS/HSPA/HSPA+ 3G"
Also, ironcroth was also correct in quoting that "3G (UMTS/HSPA/HSPA+) service by T-Mobile exclusively uses the AWS 1700/2100 MHz frequency-band" which alone might not answer your question.
So where is the problem if both use 1900 and 850 bands? Well, the problem is that in the hardware, there is a difference between GSM/GPRS/EDGE and 3G/UMTS/HSPA/HSPA+. In other words, you can't use 1900 and 850 Edge frequency of the HD2's radio chip to get 3G (UMTS/HSPA/HSPA+); they are incompatible. This is why phone spects always list both seperatly and not just all the frequencies that it supports.
The above reason alone will make the TmoUSA HD2 incompatible with AT&T's 3G, but there's even more. When Tmobile says that it uses the (for example) 1900 frequency band for Edge, it doesn't actually mean that it uses 1900-1999 frequencies; instead it only uses a part of that spectrum (buying the full 100 frequency range would be expensive so they only buy what they need). Instead they only use maybe something like 1943-1978. And this range will likely not overlap with the frequncies that AT&T uses for their 3G (you can look up the exact values on the internet if you'd like). This second reason is why a european phone which supports 2100 band for 3g will not work on Tmobile's 3G 2100 frequncy (because they don't actually overlap).
Lastly (and I almost forgot to mention this), the screen shot you posted from your ROM can indeed be changed by a cook to whatever they want (though it won't actually make any difference since it all depends on the hardware). However, in this case, it's likely because htc actually made the error and never updated that screen and just used it from their previous builds from previous phones (this was stated on the forums before and I'm sure you'd be able to find it given some searching).
Hope this helps.
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Click to collapse
Thank you very much. I myself had been wondering why I couldn't get an HTC Desire (honestly, pretty much the only phone I'd change my HD2 for unless a GSM version of the Supersonic becomes available) and have it work in the US at the 2100 frequency.
When I asked before, people would tell me that a phone would have to support both bands (1700/2100) to actually run on T-Mobile because one did HSDPA and the other did HSUPA, but that didn't make sense to me since all you need is a single band frequency to handle both D and U data streams.
Your explanation makes a lot more sense. It's a sad thing, though.
I remember reading somewhere that a chip manufacturer (motorola?) was working on a all frequency chip. I also read that the inherent problem with that would be the antenna.
It would be awesome to have an all band phone that world travelers could utilize. I love the HD2, I had upgraded from a long time use of a Treo 750. That phone was pretty close (quad GSM, triple umts). However when Tmo rolled out it's 3G on 1700 I was still stuck on edge with the 750.
Finally bit the bullet for an HD2, really like this phone. The 750 seems antique now heheh
moonchaser said:
I remember reading somewhere that a chip manufacturer (motorola?) was working on a all frequency chip. I also read that the inherent problem with that would be the antenna.
It would be awesome to have an all band phone that world travelers could utilize. I love the HD2, I had upgraded from a long time use of a Treo 750. That phone was pretty close (quad GSM, triple umts). However when Tmo rolled out it's 3G on 1700 I was still stuck on edge with the 750.
Finally bit the bullet for an HD2, really like this phone. The 750 seems antique now heheh
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Click to collapse
Building a multi frequency chip isnt all that hard. software defined radios have existed for quite some time. basically a simple reprogramming allows it to xmit/rec on a different frequency. the trouble comes in the antenna design. antennas must be designed to work at specific frequencies to be the most efficient at transmitting and the most sensitive at receiving. trying to make a single antenna capable of xmit and rec anywhere in a bandwidth ranging from 700mhz upto say the 2500mhz that wimax uses, is going to make for quite a ****ty antenna at any frequency. When you see the piece of foil antennas in todays phones, they may just look like a simple piece of foil, but a lot of design goes into them to make them work well at the frequencies they need to work with.
I guarantee if you compared the internal antenna of the Euro, AUS and USA HD2 there are slight differences. Ill bet the radio chip in them is for the most part identical, there may be something modified on them to keep people from interchanging the radio roms between them though since that would invalidate any FCC or other country equivalent certification for that phone to operate
Its one thing to run a hacked rom, its something completely different to use an uncertified radio rom. Could cause all kinds of havoc with the cellular network, and get slapped with FCC fines if they could track down your trouble causing phone
d0ug said:
Building a multi frequency chip isnt all that hard. software defined radios have existed for quite some time. basically a simple reprogramming allows it to xmit/rec on a different frequency. the trouble comes in the antenna design. antennas must be designed to work at specific frequencies to be the most efficient at transmitting and the most sensitive at receiving. trying to make a single antenna capable of xmit and rec anywhere in a bandwidth ranging from 700mhz upto say the 2500mhz that wimax uses, is going to make for quite a ****ty antenna at any frequency. When you see the piece of foil antennas in todays phones, they may just look like a simple piece of foil, but a lot of design goes into them to make them work well at the frequencies they need to work with.
I guarantee if you compared the internal antenna of the Euro, AUS and USA HD2 there are slight differences. Ill bet the radio chip in them is for the most part identical, there may be something modified on them to keep people from interchanging the radio roms between them though since that would invalidate any FCC or other country equivalent certification for that phone to operate
Its one thing to run a hacked rom, its something completely different to use an uncertified radio rom. Could cause all kinds of havoc with the cellular network, and get slapped with FCC fines if they could track down your trouble causing phone
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Click to collapse
Yeah that's on par with what I had read, you do well at explaining it.
Maybe some futuristic worldphone designer would opt for interchangeable external antenna's... I could live with that or maybe multiple builtin foils with a software driven switch between them and the radio... that would be neat. Not holding my breath though...
Interesting on the FCC, hadn't thought of that.
moonchaser said:
Yeah that's on par with what I had read, you do well at explaining it.
Maybe some futuristic worldphone designer would opt for interchangeable external antenna's... I could live with that or maybe multiple builtin foils with a software driven switch between them and the radio... that would be neat. Not holding my breath though...
Interesting on the FCC, hadn't thought of that.
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Click to collapse
Thanks, I was just again looking at the spec differences between the euro and TMO HD2s and i really don't know why HTC did not also give the TMO HD2 850/900mhz HSPA/WCDMA to truly make it a world 3G phone. According to the tech specs over at HTC.com, TMO HD2 can already use 850/900mhz for GSM/GPRS/EDGE so the antenna is obviously quite capable of both. The only other frequency the TMO HD2 has to handle that the euro doesn't is 1700mhz
Part of me thinks it was probably done so the HD2 couldn't be used over on AT&T
d0ug said:
Thanks, I was just again looking at the spec differences between the euro and TMO HD2s and i really don't know why HTC did not also give the TMO HD2 850/900mhz HSPA/WCDMA to truly make it a world 3G phone. According to the tech specs over at HTC.com, TMO HD2 can already use 850/900mhz for GSM/GPRS/EDGE so the antenna is obviously quite capable of both. The only other frequency the TMO HD2 has to handle that the euro doesn't is 1700mhz
Part of me thinks it was probably done so the HD2 couldn't be used over on AT&T
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Click to collapse
It had nothing to do with AT&T, it's because there's a difference between Edge and 3g radio frequency. More than that, there is no phone radio chip that supports all those frequencies and even more so, htc doesn't manufacture radio chips, they purchase them and put them in their phones....just like the majority of the hardware
Srs wow hd
How do you get SRS WOW HD downloaded onto the HTC HD2?
Svegetto said:
a european phone which supports 2100 band for 3g will not work on Tmobile's 3G 2100 frequncy
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Click to collapse
I think this is incorrect -- the 2100 band support on the HD2 is in fact expressly intended for 3G compatibility in Europe/Asia, and people have reported being able to get 3G in Europe with their US HD2.
1700 == US-only 3G
2100 == Europe, Asia 3G
What's missing, I believe, might be 3G support in certain areas of places like Latin America which may follow US frequencies but don't have T-Mobile USA there to provide 1700 service... e.g., no 2100 and no 1700 either.
T-Mobile U.S. uses both AWS 1700mhz and 2100mhz for 3G. The 2100mhz band is used for transmit and 1700mhz is used for receive. Hence the incompatibility with other carriers phones that only operate in one spectrum.
Cheers.
~Jasecloud4
Will Samsung Galaxy S work on 3G fido/Rogers
Hello,
I live in Toronto, Canada and I have phone with Fido. The 3G frequency for fido/rogers are 850/1900. I have found the phone on ebay unlocked that supports HSDPA 900 / 1900 / 2100.
I heard many posts here about that. I just want to confirm If rogers/fido support 850/1900, however the phone only supports HSDPA 900 / 1900 / 2100.
Will I still get 3G network or not?
No 850 MHZ available yet. You'd get 2g, but not 3g. I'm sure the 850 Mhz version will be popping up soon.
Yes, but The phone support 1900 and rogers list 1900 as one of the two band frequencies for 3G, so it's should get 3G using 1900 frequency in some areas, right?
Re: Will Samsung Galaxy S work on 3G fido/Rogers
It should work on the 1900 band. You just need to make sure that you have strong 1900 band coverage for 3g in your area. Check gsmworld. Com for the maps.
Sent from my Nexus One
1900 is the secondary band. you'll only get it in certain areas.
and by certain, i mean very few.
even then, would you want a phone that can't connect when you're in one part of town to another
Okay so I was just reading this older article on IntoMobile: http://www.intomobile.com/2009/02/24/att-3g-network-going-850mhz-nationwide-by-2010.html
Here is an excerpt:
The news that AT&T is aiming to complete their 3G network migration to the more capable 850Mhz GSM ban came straight from de la Vega, so it’s a fairly reliable goal-line to look towards. Unfortunately for folks with 2G-limited (EDGE) devices, AT&T’s decision to co-opt the higher-frequency band for 3G services will means that 2G services will now rely on the more finicky and shorter-range 1900Mhz band. In fact, you may have already started noticing a drop in 2G performance in your area. Still, the push to migrate 3G services to the 850Mhz band highlights AT&T’s ongoing effort to improve their 3G network.
So basically by getting a phone that works on the less reliable portion of at&ts network we are definitely asking for trouble. So as much as I hate hate hate waiting. I think that I will have to wait for an official us version.
doctajay said:
Okay so I was just reading this older article on IntoMobile: http://www.intomobile.com/2009/02/24/att-3g-network-going-850mhz-nationwide-by-2010.html
Here is an excerpt:
The news that AT&T is aiming to complete their 3G network migration to the more capable 850Mhz GSM ban came straight from de la Vega, so it’s a fairly reliable goal-line to look towards. Unfortunately for folks with 2G-limited (EDGE) devices, AT&T’s decision to co-opt the higher-frequency band for 3G services will means that 2G services will now rely on the more finicky and shorter-range 1900Mhz band. In fact, you may have already started noticing a drop in 2G performance in your area. Still, the push to migrate 3G services to the 850Mhz band highlights AT&T’s ongoing effort to improve their 3G network.
So basically by getting a phone that works on the less reliable portion of at&ts network we are definitely asking for trouble. So as much as I hate hate hate waiting. I think that I will have to wait for an official us version.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good call.
I think that if we don't get an 850 mhz US one right away they'll probably get one in australia or somewhere else where 850 is used. Same deal with people who want the HD2 on AT&T.
850 Mhz version "Not likely" imo...
paulthepwner said:
Good call.
I think that if we don't get an 850 mhz US one right away they'll probably get one in australia or somewhere else where 850 is used. Same deal with people who want the HD2 on AT&T.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can comment from personal experience here.. I'm going to hedge a bet that there will not be an 850Mhz Galaxy S... If there were going to be, it would have been submitted to FCC by now, but I could be wrong.
I bought an OmniaHD last June, which is also 900/1900/2100 and it's never hooked up to 3G in Canada.
I can scan UMTS (using service menus) but cannot connect. I always get an unauthorized access message.
The real issue is that Canadian Carriers are making THE CORRECT business decision by using UMTS on 850Mhz.
850 gives you a larger coverage area, with the trade off of less subscribers per radio. this fits Canada's geographic demographic to the tee.. vast area, not many people.
It could be argued that 1900 should be enabled in metro areas, but Rogers is reserving the 1900 for additional voice capacity (is what I've come to learn).
I guess 1900 would be enabled if 850 became flooded.. so here's to iPad causing conjestion on the 850... iPad being pure data.. Hopefully this will be the case and 1900 will be enabled.
FYI there is an approved 'Tmobile' version of the Galaxy S. Tmobile uses 1700/2100.. and so does WIND
engadget.com/2010/04/11/samsung-galaxy-s-hits-the-fcc-with-atandt-bands-onboard/
at&t will be calling it the Captivate and its coming in late July.
kirbo20 said:
engadget.com/2010/04/11/samsung-galaxy-s-hits-the-fcc-with-atandt-bands-onboard/
at&t will be calling it the Captivate and its coming in late July.
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Click to collapse
Thanks for the link...
From Engadget, you can click on the fcc image to get the the fcc application. This link: (rf exposure info)
fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/oet/forms/blobs/retrieve.cgi?attachment_id=1263518&native_or_pdf=pdf
page 4 indicates that the application is for WCDMA 1900Mhz.. GSM will operate both 850 and 1900, however 3G is 1900. (also 2.4Ghz application for BT and WIFI..
So you're out of luck if your carrier has enabled 3G on 850 only....
Hope Rogers enables 1900, because I WANT THIS PHONE!
ps. Page 12 is neat-it looks like they radiate Brain and Muscle tissue equivalents to see the effects of rf The details on test configurations and results are there as well.. I wonder if they'll come out with a corded version....
giz02 said:
The real issue is that Canadian Carriers are making THE CORRECT business decision by using UMTS on 850Mhz.
850 gives you a larger coverage area, with the trade off of less subscribers per radio. this fits Canada's geographic demographic to the tee.. vast area, not many people.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why is it that they're not using 900 instead of 850? How much of an "incorrect" business decision would that be?
Aqua1ung said:
Why is it that they're not using 900 instead of 850? How much of an "incorrect" business decision would that be?
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Click to collapse
That... is a mystery unsolved ...
Prayers Answered
Samsung Captivate is the phone.. Now What about that Galaxy S Pro.. will we be seeing a flash for the camera???
I just received my Samsung Galaxy S and it's working on Rogers 3G. No problems all day.
bigbuffalo said:
I just received my Samsung Galaxy S and it's working on Rogers 3G. No problems all day.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you in a strong 1900 Mhz area? Where did you buy your Galaxy S from?
trinikartel said:
Are you in a strong 1900 Mhz area? Where did you buy your Galaxy S from?
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Click to collapse
I live in Richmond Hill. I have been all over including downtown, and it seems to be working so far. I bought it off a seller on eBay that is located in Markham.
Samsung Galaxy S 3g working in the (Greater Toronto Area) with Rogers on 1900 MHz
bigbuffalo said:
I live in Richmond Hill. I have been all over including downtown, and it seems to be working so far. I bought it off a seller on eBay that is located in Markham.
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@bigbuffalo, thanks for the tip about the guy in Markham, I met up with him yesterday and bought the Samsung Galaxy S. Man What a device!!! I replaced my Motorola Milestone as I had enough of the Motorola BS. Don't get me wrong, I still think its one of the best 2.1 devices in Canada but if you read the Motorola forums you can see what my frustrations have been all about.
I can confirm that the Galaxy S does indeed have 3G coverage all over the GTA (South Eastern Ontario, Canada) including Milton on the 1900 MHz band but if you drive 5 minutes west of Milton it goes down to EDGE. Oh forgot to mention that the 3G is 3.5G as I see an H (HSDPA, HSUPA) more often then I see 3G. I hope this helps.
The device is a work of art, smooth,thin, light, sexy and packs a punch. I would recommend this device to anyone over the Nexus One, Milestone and the Sony X10. The Samsung blows them out of the water in every way.
Also if anyone is interested here is the company I bought the Samsung Galaxy S from:
NCI Sales Support Team
Neway Communication International
newayci.com
1-888-839-5639
Now if I can only find some accessories..
Thanks again guys..
Regards,
oscicluna
@oscicluna
Glad you were able to get one. It is one superb piece of software. Not sure if your device has the Singtel firmware on it (Asia), but mine did and I found it to lag quite a bit. When I did my research, apparently that firmware really slows down the device. I since updated to JF2 firmware, and rooted, and now it runs fantastic. I would highly recommend to get rid of the Singtel firmware. Enjoy your device.
bigbuffalo said:
@oscicluna
Glad you were able to get one. It is one superb piece of software. Not sure if your device has the Singtel firmware on it (Asia), but mine did and I found it to lag quite a bit. When I did my research, apparently that firmware really slows down the device. I since updated to JF2 firmware, and rooted, and now it runs fantastic. I would highly recommend to get rid of the Singtel firmware. Enjoy your device.
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Click to collapse
hmm...i'm pretty much sold on this phone. Just gonna wait until Tuesday to see what they officially unveil in terms of US carriers (AT&T in particular). The (possible) removal of the front facing camera on the Captivate really ticked me off..but apparently they added a 6 axis sensor for gaming etc. Hoping they root the Captivate soonish after launch in the event I opt to go that route and save some $$. Decisions...decisions.....
Any one use this phone in CANADA with Rogers / Fido...
i'm use with Rogers...some time show at 3G mode or HSPA mode...but seem this phone is not support Rogers 3G network...can someone explain it.......also when i use Fido i can in roaming mode...the date is not working until i check the roaming date box........
Just curious if anyone is using the MT4G on AT&T and how well that's working? I know we can unlock it for use with any carrier but wanted some feedback before I spend the money to get my gf (now using iphone 3gs) an MT4G to use on AT&T.
I already know that 4G won't work. I got her a Captivate for Christmas but she really likes Sense and AT&T's phones are so locked down it's stupid. Can't use custom ringtones, can't sideload apps, etc.
Can anyone help out?
So I'm doing some research and it looks like there's minial wcdma overlap which means spotty 3g coverage? Is that right? I really don't know how to interpret what I'm seeing though so I would be really appreciative for the input of someone more informed than I.
LINKY
CAPTIVATE
GSM 850
GSM 900
GSM 1800
GSM 1900
WCDMA 850
WCDMA 1900
WCDMA 2100
MYTOUCH 4G
GSM 850
GSM 900
GSM 1800
GSM 1900
WCDMA 1700
WCDMA 2100
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Click to collapse
Courtesy of PhoneScoop.com
i am using my MT4G on att and its preety good reception wise. I got 15 dollar unlimited data plan. Bec this is tmobil made hardware so i only get edge.
Why not just grab her an att nexus one and flash sense into it? Evil D's ports are really good!
Phateless said:
I already know that 4G won't work.
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3G won't work either. My question is why on earth would you want to take a MT4G over to the [IMO] worst network of all time?
Only bands 1& 4 right?
Although the captivate supports 2100, at&t only operates 850 & 1900 in the us. Some phones have 2100 for global roaming because that's what most others use.
While at&t does have a larger footprint, I just paid them $180 to get out of my contract and I'm much happier with tmobile. Texts actually send and web pages actually load.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App
It works just fine, just slower, obviously.
And yes, it is 3G.
Let me be super clear about this... 3G WILL NOT WORK on AT&T. The MT4G just doesn't have the right radio. However, the Vibrant (surprisingly) does have the 850 band on its 3G radio, and does sort of work for AT&T.
If you want an Android phone on AT&T, I recommend buying something unlocked from Canada. Rogers and Bell both share AT&T's 3G bands (850 & 1900), and have a better selection than AT&T itself.
Really great comments here. She's got a year left on her contract, that's why. She's gonna find out her termination fee tomorrow cuz she loves my mt4g, lol.
I always knew that an N1 is definitely her best bet but can't find one used and have an mt4g in the works for $260.
We're talking slightly different things here as well. HSPDA on ATT won't work.
However, "EDGE" describes a family of service classes, not a single speed. Depending on your location and the service speeds there, EDGE may in fact be qualified to be called 3G according to the ITU (the international body that certifies this nomenclature).
As the radio in this phone most certainly does support EDGE, whether or not you can get 3G speeds on AT&T will depend on your location. For most of us this will still be a "no," but if the OP is in one of the special markets (LA, NYC, ATL) you can see it. Since OP is in Oakland, I figured he might get lucky.
I swap cards a bit on mine (one SIMM or work, and one for personal use) and have been in areas where the EDGE network was nearly as fast as the supposed 4G on the other card.
I should probably start using the that bandwith meter app and record my results. It could be interesting.
ReverendJasen said:
We're talking slightly different things here as well. HSPDA on ATT won't work.
However, "EDGE" describes a family of service classes, not a single speed. Depending on your location and the service speeds there, EDGE may in fact be qualified to be called 3G according to the ITU (the international body that certifies this nomenclature)...
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Click to collapse
EDGE is not generally considered a 3G technology, although it is a significant improvement over GPRS, and it offers speeds approaching true 3G speeds.
Calling EDGE "3G" is somewhat like T-Mobile calling HSPA+ "4G"; it's playing a little fast and loose with the definitions. I do agree that in ideal circumstances, EDGE speeds can be pretty good, but it really falters when it comes to streaming media or any other data-intensive task.
Please post questions in Q&A section.