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Does Anyone knows how to get the Internal GPS to work with Windows Live Map?
Thanks,
gpsone isn't in standalone mode so it cannot be accessed by applications
There are rumors that it'll be activated in the EVDO Rev A update this fall.
so wait... mogul has a gps?
it's built into the qualcomm cpu like the kaiser. it's assumed the gps shares the cell antenna since there's no gps antenna on board and the documentation states this is possible. the kaiser has the 7200 the mogul has the 7500. kaiser w/ test rom allows for the gpsone to run in standalone mode and the kaiser seems to have an antenna so it works.
as of right now it's assumed gps will work when unlocked but it's still a gray area; there may or may not be an antenna
The FCC application describes the Mogul as
"a CDMA850/CDMA1900 (1XEVDO / 1XRTT / IS-95A/B) Pocket PC Phone with wireless LAN, bluetooth, and GPS functions."
https://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/ViewExhibitReport.cfm?mode=Exhibits&RequestTimeout=500&calledFromFrame=N&application_id=391628&fcc_id='NM8TITA100'
the listing of gps functionality is ambiguous; all cellphones are required to have agps for e911 emergency in the usa as mandated by the fcc. gpsone is in quite a few htc devices but only a handful have antennas attached
how accurate is agps? versus standalone gps?
someone on PPCgeeks reported that Live Search was working on Sprint Moguls using tower triangulation. I'm not sure if this is different than AGPS, but it sure it neat to have location based services, even if accurate only to a few hundred yards...
Dishe said:
someone on PPCgeeks reported that Live Search was working on Sprint Moguls using tower triangulation. I'm not sure if this is different than AGPS, but it sure it neat to have location based services, even if accurate only to a few hundred yards...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A-GPS = tower assisted GPS.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assisted_GPS
i had my telenav rep confirm when the rev a patch is released that the GPS will be unlocked as well.
samspoon said:
the listing of gps functionality is ambiguous; all cellphones are required to have agps for e911 emergency in the usa as mandated by the fcc. gpsone is in quite a few htc devices but only a handful have antennas attached
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Click to collapse
All cell phones certainly DO NOT have aGPS. Please do not confuse aGPS for tower triangulation.
aGPS is assisted GPS meaning it uses the cell phone towers to assist an existing GPS chipset.
So if the Mogul has aGPS, then it has to have GPS by definition.
he is right though. FCC does now require that ALL new phones in the united states have GPS (to an extent) for at least e911.
TC1 said:
A-GPS = tower assisted GPS.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assisted_GPS
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, I'm aware of the definition.
The way AGPS is described is similar to how articles are describing the technology Sprint and MS are using... and since every Sprint phone is mandated by the FCC to have 911 AGPS capabilities, I'm wondering if this is the same thing.
samspoon said:
as of right now it's assumed gps will work when unlocked but it's still a gray area; there may or may not be an antenna
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Kaiser has a big "GPS" on the back where you can hook up an external antenna. No such luck with the Mogul.
But I still can hope that _some_ kind of GPS would come with Rev.A. Sucky GPS is better than no GPS...
I think you guys know as well as I do, that even if the phone has a functional gps and a antenna sprint will still never unlock it. Its not that they dont want to, they are lazy. There have been lots of firmware "updates" I have been waiting for on other sprint phones that they were going to release and never did.
As for external GPS recievers what do you guys think of this one?
http://www.semsons.com/wo44chawaauo.html
That supports A-GPS you think that would work?
Madzilla said:
I think you guys know as well as I do, that even if the phone has a functional gps and a antenna sprint will still never unlock it. Its not that they dont want to, they are lazy. There have been lots of firmware "updates" I have been waiting for on other sprint phones that they were going to release and never did.
As for external GPS recievers what do you guys think of this one?
http://www.semsons.com/wo44chawaauo.html
That supports A-GPS you think that would work?
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Click to collapse
if you are going to go with an external BT reciever any should work, since its not using the phones GPS at all
If you want an external, get a Holux M-1200. Tiny, cheap, and works amazing. I love mine!
ok, so any external gps will work? some of them say A-GPS compatible and others dont. Does that matter at all?
I was told by my friend who works at Sprint today that they will be unlocking the GPS in Quarter 4 of this year.
She said that originally they did not unlock it as they were having issues with the hardware and software, but are prepping to unlock it soon to us.
Sorry if this has been put out there already, but thought I would share what I heard. hopeful anyway, huh?
Is this guy a reliable source of info? Or is he a rep who hears stuff through the grapevine like the rest of us? (I've heard some crazy misunderstood info coming from people who "work for sprint")
Over at ppcgeeks.com someone dissasembled their Mogul and the general conclusion was that the GPS had been disabled via hardware, although they admit they're not sure.
The rumor also was that it would be available to us with the Rev A update due to come out soon. Although no one knew for sure where this info came from. Could be someone made it up, wishful thinking.
So, yes, this rumor has been around, but we're still waiting for someone to actually confirm it.
Honestly, I'll beleive it when I see it.
Dishe said:
Is this guy a reliable source of info? Or is he a rep who hears stuff through the grapevine like the rest of us? (I've heard some crazy misunderstood info coming from people who "work for sprint")
Over at ppcgeeks.com someone dissasembled their Mogul and the general conclusion was that the GPS had been disabled via hardware, although they admit they're not sure.
The rumor also was that it would be available to us with the Rev A update due to come out soon. Although no one knew for sure where this info came from. Could be someone made it up, wishful thinking.
So, yes, this rumor has been around, but we're still waiting for someone to actually confirm it.
Honestly, I'll beleive it when I see it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This person is a software engineer at Sprint, and she said that the reason they didn't have it unlocked in the beginning was due to a hardware/software conflict, but that it will be unlocked in an upcoming ROM update. She said that Sprint had announced it somewhere internally.
I have a few contacts in sprint, I'll try verifying this tommorow
From what I understand, the Mogul has A-GPS. This is the same GPS that allows them to find you if you make an emergency call. It does not work off sattelites but rather from cell towers.
On the bright side, it shares the same Qualcomm 7200 chip that the Kaiser will use.
Some maintain that the Kaiser has built in GPS, others claim it has no satellite antenna and requires an external antenna.
Sprint originally advertised the phone as having GPS. Now that has been removed from their advertisement.
It will be ineresting to see what will happen with the evdo rev. a upgrade later this year.
rambo6 said:
From what I understand, the Mogul has A-GPS. This is the same GPS that allows them to find you if you make an emergency call. It does not work off sattelites but rather from cell towers.
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Click to collapse
Exactly. The bottom line from what I understand is that the Mogul does not have the built-in hardware to do full GPS that will work with independent mapping software (Google, etc).
[RANT]This is getting a bit old - people claiming that A-GPS does not work off satellites.
Please do some research before posting this type of mis-information.
A-GPS is Assisted GPS. It uses information from the cellular network to ASSIST the GPS for faster TTFF.
And the Mogul uses a different chipset than the Kaiser. One uses the 7200, while the other 7500.[/RANT]
Ok... so now that you ranted... is it your opinion that the Mogul will or will not be able to do full GPS?
And actually.... A-GPS doesn't directly work off of the satellites. Since it takes a long time for a cell phone device to download the positioning data from the GPS satellites, what the A-GPS system does is let the A-GPS servers at the cell towers download and accumulate the data, the cell phones then talk to the A-GPS servers to get the data (which happens within seconds).
When A-GPS is enabled, would it have the possibility to work with Mobile GMaps ? Or is the Java still restricted?
Don't we have A-GPS already enabled? Isn't that the little GPS icon in the phone dialer? I know I have the option to turn it off/on in the phone settings just like all other agps handsets.
If something is going to be "enabled" with a new update, that means it will most likely be real standalone GPS.
TC1, no one knows that for sure. It was speculated.
I AM POSTING THIS FOR THE LAST TIME
The Mogul has the Qualcomm msm7500 as its cpu. BUILT INTO the cpu is the gpsone chipset. This is able to achieve AGPS as well as GPS. It runs in 4 different modes. To have the serial link to work with applications the chipset must be run in standalone mode.
It is on the damn phone as it is part of the cpu! It is currently not in standalone mode so there is no way to access the chip. The only true thing up in the air is whether or not the phone can obtain a satellite lock in standalone mode.
Dishe said:
Don't we have A-GPS already enabled? Isn't that the little GPS icon in the phone dialer? I know I have the option to turn it off/on in the phone settings just like all other agps handsets.
If something is going to be "enabled" with a new update, that means it will most likely be real standalone GPS.
TC1, no one knows that for sure. It was speculated.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Correct, like almost every modern cell phone, A-GPS is enabled. There is no debate there.
I agree with you regarding speculation on the "stand-alone GPS" aspect. I've never seen definitive info from HTC that says yes or no on this subject. If there is real info regarding this, some links would be nice.
HTC's site says:
It is widely rumored that this phone has a GPS chip that has been disabled. Will there be a hack or workaround to enable GPS capabilities?
Answer: Not likely, it is AGPS which requires a connected call to get data location.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sonix6 said:
HTC's site says:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thats from their wiki site, so its not necessarily true
/me keeps fingers crossed
This would be good news. I'll be keeping my fingers crossed for this.
gpsone (in most all msm chipsets including kaiser and mogul):
How gpsOne Works:
The gpsOne technology functions in four different modes of operation. Chosen automatically or specified by software, the
four modes are Standalone GPS, Mobile Station (MS)-based, MS-assisted and MS-assisted/Hybrid. In the A-GPS modes,
gpsOne technology utilizes assistance data from a location server in the wireless network in combination with A-GPS circuitry
and software in the wireless device.
Note: The common term used by standards bodies for the handset/terminal device in CDMA2000 is "Mobile Station" (MS) and in WCDMA (UMTS)/GPRS/GSM/HSDPA/EDGE is
“User Equipment” (UE). For simplicity in this document, references to the handset/terminal will be "MS," but this use implies both MS and UE.
Standalone GPS: The GPS receiver calculates a position without using any assistance data and without a connection to
the wireless network.
MS-Based: The GPS receiver calculates the position using assistance data from a location server to increase cold-start
sensitivity and reduce the start time for an initial position calculation.
MS-Assisted: The GPS receiver uses assistance data from a location server to make measurements related to its distance
from the GPS satellites, then sends this information to the location server where the position is calculated. This mode also
increases cold start sensitivity and reduces the start time for an initial position calculation.
MS-Assisted/Hybrid: Wireless network information is added to GPS measurements as part of the position calculation by
the location server, integrating the relative strengths of GPS information and available wireless network location information
for increased positioning reliability in difficult GPS environments.
In assisted operation, a gpsOne-enabled handset receives
a small “assistance data” message from a network location
server using standardized protocols
• The handset then reads information from GPS satellites to
measure its distance from all the satellites it can see (called
“ranging” information).
• The handset then uses this ranging information to create a
position “fix,” or sends the ranging information back to the
server where it can be combined with network information
to produce an even better fix.
• gpsOne also operates in Standalone mode, without requiring
any assistance data from the network
straight from the gpsOne document.
interesting indeed... question is, will Sprint release firmware that allows it to run in standalone mode?
I suppose the truth is, even if it doesn't, someone can figure out how to enable it with some sort of hack eventually since its just software controlled according to this document.
has anyone played with this reg key?
\HKCU\ControlPanel\PhoneExtendFunction\CDMA\GPSOneSetting = 0
Edit: the value does not contain a space between "GPSOne" and "Setting", but vbulletin modifies my text when i post....
I don't know if this info helps or not... I spoke to a HTC TS and they told me the 6800 has GPS but is sprint decision to enable it or not. He also told me that it can be unlock but sprint is the only one with the code and he can not provide me with that info.
New poster old reader, may be found some info.
I found Many info that may me can help somebodies about the msm 7500 (gpsOne technologie)...It is hard to know what to believe 'cause half/half
people say that this is impossible, and the other half say that gonna happen soon. I think that we should make our own idea by our own knowledge . I found many topic on many forum (htc, gpsunderground,here...ask me if interressed) One Qualcomm offical site i've got pdf about msm chips, and gpsOne tech... (Snap track location service for gpsOne may be a good start point to invest)
Interessing link's:
FCC test repport for tita100 (titan) (That include plane mode settings):
https://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas...lledFromFrame=N&application_id=391628&fcc_id=
Here it seem to be codes:
http://www.wlt.net.cn/index0/FD-800/pdf/CNI FD-800 gpsOne Menual ver1 0_0117.pdf
Similar:
http://www.wlt.net.cn/index0/FD-800/pdf/FD-800_Application_Guide ver1 0(1).pdf
And found other about SDK from Qualcomm API's seem to be aivalaible to third party dev. Also seem to be hard to be registred as dev. But hope...
And if internal budies have code it is just a time question before a solution.
So i wish that i'm not making more mistake or false info...if tell me.
And for gps freak who will tell that different anthenna needed, diffrent frequencies for GPS...see the end of the document FD-800 manual (2nd link).
So thank for this helpfull forum, forgive my poor english expression, and lack of programming knoledge , my is disignig pcb, and electrical pannels, but not to programme them's( not enough )...
Hello all,
I have been reading these forums for years, but never actually posted a new question.
I was reading the Wiki-FAQ for the Hermes and ran across the fact that there is actually a GPS chip installed, however is not currently in use. I read this to mean that we cannot currently use the GPS for map location.
My question is: What about e911? I thought that e911 allowed emergency responders to track the location of the phone? Isn't this only possible with GPS? I mean, cellular signal triangulation I cannot see being very accurate. Doesn't e911 rely on the use of GPS? How does an operator track your location?
Thanks for any responses!
JBHorne said:
Hello all,
I have been reading these forums for years, but never actually posted a new question.
I was reading the Wiki-FAQ for the Hermes and ran across the fact that there is actually a GPS chip installed, however is not currently in use. I read this to mean that we cannot currently use the GPS for map location.
My question is: What about e911? I thought that e911 allowed emergency responders to track the location of the phone? Isn't this only possible with GPS? I mean, cellular signal triangulation I cannot see being very accurate. Doesn't e911 rely on the use of GPS? How does an operator track your location?
Thanks for any responses!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Tracking can be by either Cellular signal (tower) or GPS, see here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enhanced_911
Scroll to: "A second phase of Enhanced 911"
Mike
Is it possible that the GPS chip is actually enabled in our phones, but only for the purpose of e911?
JBHorne said:
Is it possible that the GPS chip is actually enabled in our phones, but only for the purpose of e911?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, it's not connected for GPS purposes and has no aerial attached. It is actively disabled for this function - not powered, pins removed etc. We know this because there was a serious attempt to get it working as a viable GPS receiver - but all these major problems were discovered.
Mike
how do i enable agps on my rogers elf plz help
Sadly Rogers touch Elf does not have GPS capabilities. The Vogue is the one with GPS. See Bell CDMA Touch otherwise known as the Vogue.
i know they dont have gps but i heard with 6.1 its to have agps
assisted gps ... which uses gprs not sat
Yes It Does
hotrod101 said:
Sadly Rogers touch Elf does not have GPS capabilities. The Vogue is the one with GPS. See Bell CDMA Touch otherwise known as the Vogue.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hi i do have software ,is call imobium,i dont know how to send it to u ,but it is such a gps on htc touch elf GSM from rogers. i bought one of those phones and i'm using imobium.
replay if u have another channel where i can send u the specs of the program and the posibility of sending u the program it self.
Good Luck.
Yami
If agps uses gprs not sat then would you incur heavy data use charges? I don't have any type of data plan (they are rediculous in price) besides, where I live, there is pretty much an open wifi hotspot anywhere I go so I have just been using the WIFI whenever I need to. I am interested in learning more. I did some googling and my understanding was that AGPS still required GPS. IF AGPS can work using GPRS Only, what can you do with that? Can you still use navigation software on the device and have turn by turn directions etc..., Can you use it to tell your speed altitude etc.. while driving? If you drive through a zone with no coverage, then AGPS would not work? There are several of these "Dead Zones" in my area in the North of Ontario Canada. (Dead zones for all cell phones no matter who your carrier is)
From what I have read there are a lot of phones that have AGPS however, most have it completely locked up so that there is no way to use it though. (Providers use it for their own purposes I guess - TO SPY ON US) I don't know about the Elf though. Haven't done that much research on it yet. Since there is no official WM 6.1 Rom release (For the Elf) to release the AGPS capabilities, maybe one of the custom roms from this site can do it. If it can be opened up for use with a ROM that is.
Assisted GPS, generally abbreviated as A-GPS, enhances the startup performance of a GPS satellite-based positioning system. It is used extensively with GPS-capable cellular phones..... Taken from WIKI
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assisted_GPS
Funnily enough, A-GPS did actually come out as a data based gps solution back when EDGE came to the scene.
But suddenly phones started coming out with their own GPS units installed. UH OH, the carriers said. This imense source of data revenue, is now going to go away.
What to do? What to do?
I GOT IT! We redefine what A-GPS is. Instead of being simply data capable phone tracking system, we take phones with existing, and fully functioning GPS units, convince people that we are actually "helping" the performance of the GPS units with our networks and VOILA, we make even more money than before.
FYI, A-GPS was actually basically the same technology that Google Maps now uses for their "My Location" which is to normalize or coordinate, your location from several cell towers, and have a pretty good approximation of where you are.
All that was required was software (ie MAPS) that could take advantage of this technology that existed from when cell phones came into being.
That is why if you were one of the early adopters of set technology (originally came out with CDMA 2000) companies, you would have noticed that your so called "A-GPS" was as good as your reception was.
So really the more modern A-GPS, should be called GPS-A-CellCOMPANIESmakeMONEY.
But my suggested name did not fly so they decided to stick with A-GPS.
Does both Rogers and AT&T Samsung Focus have a built in GPS (don't need a data plan)? Ever site I've looked at for the specs gives conflicting information.
fastmhc said:
Does both Rogers and AT&T Samsung Focus have a built in GPS (don't need a data plan)? Ever site I've looked at for the specs gives conflicting information.
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As I understand, my focus at&t has built in GPS that can be used with and without a data plan. It just depends what GPS software you are using for instance any GPS software that uses realtime updates or online maps requires data to be used while GPS is enabled...some 3rd party software use stored on device offline maps that would not require a data plan. As for specific programs that use online and offline maps I don't know. I use a data plan so I don't have to worry about that stuff.
This is my understanding so if anyone has better insight be my guest
All WP7 phones have a GPS, just like they all have a camera, three front buttons, a gravity sensor, proximity sensor, ambient light sensor and a compass. There are free GPS apps that are on the Marketplace that will allow you to see the GPS does work.
In time, there will be standalone gps navigation apps for sale on the Marketplace, it just takes a little patience.
I just don't want assisted GPS (A-GPS). I want an integrated GPS chip. All phones dont' have a built in GPS (I think older iphones). I currently have a Samsung i8910 and it has an integrated GPS. I bought Garmin software to use the GPS maps and when I am overseas I just need to buy the maps for that region to access the maps. If you have A-GPS you have to buy a data plan from that country's carrier and using their network, you access the internet (google maps) to get your maps. I hope that is clear??
You totally misunderstood what A-GPS is.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
Maybe I don't? this is a quote for the wiki page for GPS navigation for phones
" Some phones with GPS capability work by assisted GPS (A-GPS) only, and do not function when out of range of their carrier's cell towers. "
WP7's have A-GPS. They use both radio towers and satellites to obtain a fix on your location.
So yes, once a proper mapping application is released, you can travel to other countries without needing a data plan.
From wiki, sums it up pretty well i would say:
""Standalone" or "Autonomous" GPS operation use radio signals from satellites alone. A-GPS additionally uses network resources to locate and utilize the satellites faster as well as better in poor signal conditions."
Source:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assisted_GPS
fastmhc said:
Maybe I don't? this is a quote for the wiki page for GPS navigation for phones
" Some phones with GPS capability work by assisted GPS (A-GPS) only, and do not function when out of range of their carrier's cell towers. "
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Most of today's cell phone GPS chips can work either in standalone mode or Assited mode. A(ssited)-GPS helps to speed up your initial satellite lock by downloading satellite information from network. If you have no data connection, the chip will fall back to standalone mode. With A-GPS properly working, you can achive first lock within 10 seconds. Without it, you may have to wait for couple minutes for your first lock. After the initial lock these GPS chips work autonomously unless you use MS-Assited A-GPS mode. With the power of today's Smartphone, there is zero reason for using MS-Assisted mode unless you're using it in E911 situations.
It is ultimately the navigation software you choose determines whether or not you need cell data connection. Currently standalone navigation software on WP7 is quite limited or non-existent. If that is important to you, you may want to look for other Smartphones like iPhone or Android phones. Your old WM software won't work in WP7.