Database Users

Rom Kitchen and ROM Usage

I have searched around but can't seem to find the exact answer to this question. I apologize if it has been covered and I missed it.
When I use a ROMKitchen, yours or Yorch's, there are optional software I can choose to add. When I do so it gives me a memory usage indicator. For example, with the 4_00_05 I currently have, Yorch asys I have 3.9 megs of space to put software in. I understand that there is 15 for Rom and 15 for RAM, RAM being what I get to use as a user.
I install almost every software program onto a storage card. The only device memory I use is the stuff various software put onto the device by default.
My question is, If I don't put any extra software, will I gain any extra space on the device? either for running program space or anything else?
Or am I just wasting the 3.9 megs I'm alotted.
Thanks,
Matt

Hi ...
There is difference between the flash ROM and RAM.
The flash ROM is usually of a fixed size of 32 MB (for XDA I at least), it's used to store the system and any ROM application code like those you select to add while cooking the ROM.
When the system starts, CE will use part of the RAM to run in addition to any other application you will run by your self. Hence, the RAM is managed by CE to be allocated for either "running" CE and applications, and the rest is for storing the DATA like e-mails, cashe files, contacts, ...etc. The RAM size can vary from 32 MB up to 128 MB
When you install non-ROM application, if you decide to install it to the device memory it will be installed to the RAM in the programs portion which will decrease the available amount of memory for either "running" applications or stored data. If it's installed on SD card, it will save the space of the code but will still run in the RAM.
So, the answer to your question is YES, you should make the max use of the available space in ROM.

Load up as many progs as possible into the rom, it saves your program/storage ram and the programs in rom cannot be lost by hard reset, if you dont use the available space in rom then it is a waste of space.

Was just wondering, but does the 'permanent save' feature require me leave some space for it on the ROM? or is that saved yet somewhere else?

Man! This is GREAT!
I hope I am not mistaken, but, if I COOK a ROM with ALL my favorite programs, I save on space (than when I install it separately), since extra space on ROM is wasted anyways?
I didnt know that!

drean said:
Was just wondering, but does the 'permanent save' feature require me leave some space for it on the ROM? or is that saved yet somewhere else?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This uses a seperate area of flash storage as far as I know.

still no easy way to build our rom without unix & a lot of retuals needed to create it! right? i understand there is a tool for XDA2 but not XDA1 which could be great

the more i visit these forums,the more confused i get!help!!

I'm all confused as to what rom is the best to install
I installed 1.60a, and used it thinking it was the best....higher version number!
It was so cool, that I wanted to read every single post, and all the excitement you guys have had while getting it to work...started reading at 10 in the night, kept reading every post, one by one, until 4:00am next morning!!!!
I then realized, holy ****, 1.50i.xx is the latest, and is more practical!!
Believe it or not, i did a complete reinstall after that at 4:00am
I further continue reading, i read that 1.60a with a ram disk is a better option!! now, i'm all confused as to what i need to install
Somebody help!!!!
Thanks guys in advance!
And Buzz.....where the hell did you get your brains from man? Do you work at ROM Cooking division of Microsoft during day, and have an MPD...morph into a hacker at night or what???!! What IDE do you use to build ROMs for microsoft....a hex editor?? Whatever, you're absofuckinlutely rocking dude!!
Best,
San

Just my two cents...
I use 1.60a because the 16MB storage + 16 MB ExtROM are persistent. Every program and data that you install into these two are still there even if the battery is dead.
Originally 1.60a was limited as it only offered a max of 32 MB to install programs and data (16MB + 16MB). But with the ramdisk you can install many more programs. However, the programs or data installed in the ramdisk are of course not persistent, which means you will lose it if the battery goes dead.
Hence, if you value persistence above storage, go for 1.60a and use the ramdisk for additional storage capacity.
If you don't care about persistence and always carry a spare battery with you, go for the 1.5xxx versions according to your storage needs.
Cheers
Pat

Hey thanks very much for your reply!
I really dont care how much device memory i have. I have a max of 10 megs of apps that need to go on device memory. The problem i faced was that, the 14 meg storage disk kept getting filled up to something around 10 megs....and i was worried where all the common dlls etc. would also end up going into this (even if i install the app onto my storage card) and end up consuming the entire storage space.
Btw, how do you gain access to other 16 meg partition? Do i need to use an ext rom unlocker or something? Where can i grab that?
Also, how do i create a RAM disk on 1.60a? I read the post, but it seems to confusing...and i didnt know what to do. Besides, i didnt have the ramdisk cab file for 1.60a. Would be great if you could mail it to me or something!
Heres my mail id - [email protected]
Once again, thanks very much!!
Best,
San

Here is Toe's file to unlock the ExtROM. Copy to PPC, start and softreset. Cheers
Pat

Please, please rom gurus...this idea can help everyone

Ok, plain and simple...if ya can change paging poll ya can change device storage...shrinking it...more program memory = less storage...has to be a rom for minisd`s owners...

I'm not a ROM Guru (so don't beat me in the head), but what exactly are you asking them to do? Shrink the paging file so there's is more RAM avalible? If so, how does that translate to more memory, but less storage? As in a WM5 device RAM is no longer used to store applications, no?
I'm just all confused and assuming the ROM Guru's would be too so i'm hoping you can clarify.

no, the paging file is already shrink in most modern roms, i mean the storage memory...the one that shows as internal storage...in my case i install allmost everithing in the minisd card so i have 33mb free of internal storage...i gladly give at least 16mb (or even 20mb) of that to have more program memory...
To be more specific:
settings - system - memory - main: move 16mb from the left to the right column...cant be more specific...

Moving From Program To Storage

hI,
IS THERE A POSSIBLE SOLUTION TO MOVE MBs FROM PROGRAMS TO STORAGE?

what do u mean? do you want to move your installed applications in the phone to memory card? nope! it will corrupt i think, you have to uninstall it then re install it. however, some programs which are related to the system (like helmi dialer) will be automatically installed to phone memory....

and if you mean mem as the old 2003 slider for deviding mem between app and storage then no
that vent away when ms made wm5
maybe progs like DOC or flashdisk can merge extended rom with storage if you need more storage

I mean the possibility, having 60 mb for programs and only 3 mb ffor storage, to move for example 10 mb from the first too the last: the situation will become: programs 50mb storage 13 mb.

from where you get 3 mb of storage and aditional 60 mb for programs, in blueangel we have 60 mb storage and 128 mb ram (so called program memory), or maybe you do not have Blueangel device
Please tell us your device and rom version, and you will get advice

anyway storage is flash and as such have a limited nr of write it can take before it dies
if it was used as application ram it would die very! fast
also why is it ppl want so much application ram?
programs take as much ram as they require the fact that there is plenty left dont make them faster at all
free app ram is just empty doing nothing

also BA has 128 MB ram more than most pocketpc's on the market why you need more ?

the problems is i have installed some applications that must be installed on the device; after these operations i stay with the following indications:
storage 3.68 mb (remaining);
programs 60 mb (remaining).
I'll ry 2 applications i found that could zip and unzip automatically all the files (and applications) resident on the device.
I'LL LET YOU KNOW IF I SOLVED THE PROBLEM

success!!!!
SUCCESS!!!
I HAVE USED : POCKET MECHANIC PRO AND MEMMAID.
tHE RESULT AS FOLLOW:
STORAGE USED DECREASED FROM 98% TO 68% WITHOUT UNISTALLING NOTHINGS.an OTHER USEFULL APPLICATION I FOUND WAS swelldisk.
With this one i succeded to increase as follow:
extended rom from 16 mb to 32 mb;
sd card from 2 gb to 4 gb

Swelldisk isn't the best option AFAIK. Try to find in the forum, that was discussed, and few people lost their data from the SD.

laura_kim said:
SUCCESS!!!
I HAVE USED : POCKET MECHANIC PRO AND MEMMAID.
tHE RESULT AS FOLLOW:
STORAGE USED DECREASED FROM 98% TO 68% WITHOUT UNISTALLING NOTHINGS.an OTHER USEFULL APPLICATION I FOUND WAS swelldisk.
With this one i succeded to increase as follow:
extended rom from 16 mb to 32 mb;
sd card from 2 gb to 4 gb
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sounds interesting. Can you explain how you did it.

THEY HAVE MANY TOOLS BUT THE MOST IMPORTANT ONE IS IN POCKET MECHANICH AND IS CALLED "STORAGE"; IN FEW WORDS YOU CAN CHOOSE A FOLDER/APPLICATION ON THE MAIN STORAGE AND DECIDE TO MOVE TO A SD CARD.
any reference to this original forlder (also registry keys) change their behaviour/pointing action to the new "location"

laura_kim said:
SUCCESS!!!
I HAVE USED : POCKET MECHANIC PRO AND MEMMAID.
tHE RESULT AS FOLLOW:
STORAGE USED DECREASED FROM 98% TO 68% WITHOUT UNISTALLING NOTHINGS.an OTHER USEFULL APPLICATION I FOUND WAS swelldisk.
With this one i succeded to increase as follow:
extended rom from 16 mb to 32 mb;
sd card from 2 gb to 4 gb
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hello
I have the same prob
I have downloaded the progs you used
I don't know how to increase Storaqge mem. like you did...
Please could you tell me the procedures you followed to do that ?
Cheers

"I don't know how to increase Storaqge mem. like you did...", you can't. You can only reduce usage by careful planning...Install programs to storage card, configure IE cache and temp files to storage card..... Swelldisk only work on external storage.

move the cache and all the avaiable dll to storae card: it works

I found a safe way to achieve the above:
1. Create a folder Sotage Card\ Windows
2. Include this folder name in "path"
3. Freely move any DLLs into this folder from \Windows to Storage Card\Windows
I used SKTools for achieving this. I am not sure which DLLs may be required in original \Windows folder during reflashing ROM, though I had absolutely no problem in reflashing with all DLLs moved, but better to move back system related DLLs back to original path before reflashing.

laura_kim said:
move the cache and all the avaiable dll to storae card: it works
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Cache will be recreated if you move the contents to another location, so you dont achieve any thing, rather waste space on storage card. If you really want to do this, change the registry settings too.
Moving DLLs to another location without declaring location name in "path" is incorrect way.

i tried but i dont know how to Include the folder name in "path"

Nishann said:
i tried but i dont know how to Include the folder name in "path"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Use SKTools free demo version

ROM sizes - max ROM size / maximum ROM size

First of all Happy New Year to all of you!
I'm going to cook some roms in the next few days and was wondering what the max working ROM size is. I want to build a ROM with as much apps as possible. Are there any known problems if I use up almost all the ROM space? I remember that there was this "not enough free memory" bug in one of the B&B or Meschle's ROMs. That actually happened although his ROM was extra-small I think.
And talking about the max. size why not talk about all the sizes. I read that the minimum size is a little over 50 MB. In theory there should be 128 MB available, right?
UPDATE: This is what I found out, no need to read the entire thread. I flashed a lot and coud reach a maximum of 65.546 KB, 65802 was too much for it. This ROM included ONLY the OS, I was able to flash a 20 MB Ext. ROM, maybe even larger is possible but doesn't make any sense to me. The RadioROM and the other stuff uses space too, that's the reason why you can't use 128 MB for your ROMs.

Registerme said:
First of all Happy New Year to all of you!
I'm going to cook some roms in the next few days and was wondering what the max working ROM size is. I want to build a ROM with as much apps as possible. Are there any known problems if I use up almost all the ROM space? I remember that there was this "not enough free memory" bug in one of the B&B or Meschle's ROMs. That actually happened although his ROM was extra-small I think.
And talking about the max. size why not talk about all the sizes. I read that the minimum size is a little over 50 MB. In theory there should be 128 MB available, right?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If I'm not mistaken WM5 and 6 use persistent strorage - hence ROM is used for storing apps and data, whereas RAM is used for running apps and 'volatile' data. This was different in WM2003se earlier, as RAM was used for both installing apps and running apps and data. ROM was only used for the OS, and for 'built-in-storage', which was like a RAM drive (or ROM drive !!!).
So if you filled up your ROM (extended ROM) with apps, you'd not be able to install anything as there would be no space left. Correct me if I'm wrong.
PS that's why carrier's extended ROMs are only a couple of megs

Thanx for that info, but that's what I'm planning to do. Create a ROM with all the apps that I need so I don't need to install anything later.
I was only wondering because most ROMs seem to be about 50 MB in size but there is only 50 MB free space left to use. Doesn't the Artemis have 128 MB ROM?

Registerme said:
Thanx for that info, but that's what I'm planning to do. Create a ROM with all the apps that I need so I don't need to install anything later.
I was only wondering because most ROMs seem to be about 50 MB in size but there is only 50 MB free space left to use. Doesn't the Artemis have 128 MB ROM?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, the atermis has 64mb ram and 128mb rom. I don't know if other space is reserved for the radio rom and the bootlooder etc. I expect that's the case. Good luck with building your ROM, please let me know how you get on.. my email is greenleef (at) talk21 (dot) com if you get a chance.
I want to build an extended ROM too, put all of my cabs in there. I'm just worried about using up valuable application storage space. But then again I install most larger apps to my storage card. What tools do you use, and do you need to CID unlock it first? I'm running the stock WM6 rom from 02.

I use Hyper Core Kitchen, Cook-Your-LLT, OK Package Creator 5.4 and BuildDSM. I also use UPX4PPC to shrink the .exe and .dll files on my pda and then copy the shrinked files back to the packages. I'm still working on that. You only need to use CID unlock if you have a CID locked ROM on your device.
I've succesfully created my first ROMs, 65 MB seems to be the maximum for the OS file, I tried a 20 MB extended ROM that worked out kinda ok. I must have made some mistake because the files installed but nothing was there afterwards to use. I think I might unlock the ext rom and use it as storage space, it's easier that way.

Registerme said:
I tried a 20 MB extended ROM that worked out kinda ok.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Interesting, but - what for? If you use ExtROM, you reserve space for installers, and even more valuable storage space would be occupied for installed executables and data files.
Perhaps you can achieve better results installing programs from (and maybe - to) microSD card. At least, easier to manage, than reflashing ExtROM.
Anothe side effect: when I install programs to SD Card, after flashing it is enough to copy several .lnk files - and those programs are ready to use, without running installers.
In my opinion, ExtROM is a place for patching OS or keeping very necessary programs, which you could not inject into OS for some reason. Nothing more.

That's what I use my ext rom for, I put my system tools and other programs in there that don't fit in the os-rom. Those are tools I always use and that I haven't deleted in years, so I thought it would be a good idea to have them on my device in case my sd card ever dies or I have to do a hard reset.

Registerme said:
That's what I use my ext rom for, I put my system tools and other programs in there that don't fit in the os-rom. Those are tools I always use and that I haven't deleted in years, so I thought it would be a good idea to have them on my device in case my sd card ever dies or I have to do a hard reset.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I like the idea of having apps and cabs in extrom, If I can figure it all out I plan to do it. I still use Cabinstall from 2003se on my Dell axim, as I find CABS going missing after i install them. I use PIM backup for PIM, and SPB backup for cloning my working rom with manually installed apps. All big apps go on storage card, which usually don't need registry keys so they're happy run from there - even TOMTOM6.
As far as my MicroSD giving up on me, I use symantec ghost, take an image of my SD every couple of weeks, and leave the image on my laptop.
One thing I really would like to do - remove all the useless .exes and things from my image... If I can free up 10meg from my ROM, I could unlock the extROM and use it as a storage area like you mention.... I think ROM is a lot faster than SD....