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Hello.. I have been sinking my teeth into this realm for several weeks, and have noticed there seems to be a fairly important topic that is rather underdocumented.
People throw the word "ROM" around, but really with these devices there are several layers of software at work in this regard. I'm about to sound like the ultimate noob, so forgive me. But for example, users hear of a "splash screen ROM".. we read about SPL and its variants.. and of course the OS images everyone here loves.. somewhere in here there is a region accessed and manipulated by MTTY. So what it means to "flash a ROM" can vary wildly.
What I need (and many others would benefit from) is a link to a document that maps this out, describing each of the divisions of the device's low-level software, how they fit into the boot sequence and overall picture, and ideally, which of our tools they are connected to.
What happens once Windows loads is well documented, but what happens before this seems to be as crucial as it is undocumented (that I know if). Many people on these forums are quite technical, despite admitted ignorance of mobile device architecture. A better understanding of the playing field would eliminate much of the confusion users face. Many of the tools themselves are well documented in terms of usage, but their actual technical impact is a mystery to many.
Can anyone recommend any such reference(s) that might de-mystify the architectural aspect of our beloved phones and ROMs?
what u guys think about the camera on the G1, I think it's pretty good.I had a wing and it's definitely better than that one(not by a blowout but better)but my only problem with it is u can't customize the settings for it like saturation brightness etc... and it takes like 5 seconds to take the picture after u press the button. I also wanted to know if it's better than the iphone camera, I never really messed with the iphone like that so i don't know how the camera is.
the iphone 3g camera i must say is very good and very clear thhe G1 camera is good but you have to be in very well lit areas to get any type of good picture in other wise it will be dark. i personally still use my dash camera because of the auto focus and backlighting
It's slow because the camera button is 2 stage, half way to focus, then all the way to take the picture.
Do you think they will add an app for the camera to fix the lighting, cuz I read from a tmobile rep somewhere that they was gonna release a video recording app for the camera so u can capture video but they took it down and it'll prolly be up soon,tech wise the iphone has a 2.0mp camera and the G1 has a 3.0mp so it should b better.
There is suppose to be an app released through the market on Monday that will do video and flash support. Sounds too good to be true but I really hope it is true.
As far as the camera if you hold the button down half way till you see the green light then take the picture it works really well. As far as adjusting the settings someone just needs to make an app to control it.
megapixels has NOTHING to do with camera quality. I have an old 2 megapixel Canon PowerShot A40 that will run rings around a ton of 5 megapixel crap cameras. You need a good lens and a good sensor, that is it.
The G1 lens is decent for a digital camera and pretty damn good for a camera phone. The downside is that it's a very slow lens and needs a long shutter release to get enough light. That's with any tiny camera though. They either jack up the gain and make the pictures look like crap or they slow down the shutter and if you move or your subject moves, it looks like crap.
I am very impressed that the autofocus can go from about 3" to infinity. I've never had a cameraphone w/ autofocus and it's helpful for taking pictures up close. My Eten X600 couldn't cope with anything less than about 2 feet away.
I am very impressed with the camera hardware. I would like the software to be updated soon though, current software seems incredibly slow and is unable to compensate in low-light situations.
Well if you ask me its disappointing. Camera on dash is ten times better. I know that apps will be made to improve settings options but no zoom, wtf??? I know developers will make an app for it but why on earth was something so basic not included? It seems like they decided to lean on developers a little too much. Seems the developers of this phone threw it together really lazy like and I for one am extremely disappointed. Not in phone itself just the way a lot of stuff works and all the basics missing from g1.
I'm disappointed that a lot of little things were left out like a decent camera app but it seems as though it would be at least another 6 months of work to make everything missing. At least we have stable phones in-hand right now.
Unrelated note: I have only had one phone-related lockup and that's because it couldn't get register on the network on the 10th floor in my downtown office building. Everything else has been 3rd party app related.
stats555 said:
Well if you ask me its disappointing. Camera on dash is ten times better. I know that apps will be made to improve settings options but no zoom, wtf??? I know developers will make an app for it but why on earth was something so basic not included? It seems like they decided to lean on developers a little too much. Seems the developers of this phone threw it together really lazy like and I for one am extremely disappointed. Not in phone itself just the way a lot of stuff works and all the basics missing from g1.
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Here's my take on Android and the thinking behind it. I think Google intentionally made it in it's current state so we have the choice to upgrade it the way we see fit. It's kind of like when a cook creates a lite cooked rom. We add the apps we want on top of it. Remember they're doing what wm does and are making an os that works on many different handsets. So they probably left out some components they felt that not everyone will utilize, at least not at the moment, such as advanced camera features, virtual keyboard, etc. Over time, once they see what the consumer wants, they'll add such components. Like the virtual keyboard they said in Q1 '09. That'll most likely be pushed up since that's a common complaint for the G1, but is not a priority because we have a keyboard. Now let HTC make Touch HD with Android OS and i bet you'll see that keyboard in a week. Just my take on it
I really hope they do release that camera app come monday! That was be awesome, should compliment the G1 camera.
papito2181 said:
Here's my take on Android and the thinking behind it. I think Google intentionally made it in it's current state so we have the choice to upgrade it the way we see fit. It's kind of like when a cook creates a lite cooked rom. We add the apps we want on top of it. Remember they're doing what wm does and are making an os that works on many different handsets. So they probably left out some components they felt that not everyone will utilize, at least not at the moment, such as advanced camera features, virtual keyboard, etc. Over time, once they see what the consumer wants, they'll add such components. Like the virtual keyboard they said in Q1 '09. That'll most likely be pushed up since that's a common complaint for the G1, but is not a priority because we have a keyboard. Now let HTC make Touch HD with Android OS and i bet you'll see that keyboard in a week. Just my take on it
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I guess but it sounds like a lame excuse if you ask me. Google screwed up and left off basic things by accident. Then people (fanboys) and (Google) use the excuse of letting developers fix the f*cked up OS. Yeah, added stuff is okay but to have to add the basics is just crappy. They just need to admit there were mistakes made (And it is okay! It's a first generation OS!) and quit using the excuse of it's an open platform os and we'll leave that to the developers. What about your developers, Google? What have they done? They implemeted a few ideas with a linux core and made a very basic os for a mobile device. It's good but it's nothing special. I'm not impressed with anything. Most of the wow factor was borrowed from apple, wm, and htc.
They have done nothing inventive. And how open is this new platform? Not very from what I have seen. Developers are charged $25 (albeit not very much money, but still!) to add something on their marketplace store. This discourages freeware and SDK is pain in the ass. Most non-market apps. won't work because they were written with the older SDK. Everytime Google updates something will the SDK change with it? Who knows but they are off to a very iphone-like start to me at least. Sorry to rant, I actually expected worse problems! So far so good but I expected basics were covered, file explorer, camera settings, and so on. Just wish the BS excuses would go away. but then again, maybe the 3rd party developers can fix it,
sino8r said:
I guess but it sounds like a lame excuse if you ask me. Google screwed up and left off basic things by accident. Then people (fanboys) and (Google) use the excuse of letting developers fix the f*cked up OS. Yeah, added stuff is okay but to have to add the basics is just crappy. They just need to admit there were mistakes made (And it is okay! It's a first generation OS!) and quit using the excuse of it's an open platform os and we'll leave that to the developers. What about your developers, Google? What have they done? They implemeted a few ideas with a linux core and made a very basic os for a mobile device. It's good but it's nothing special. I'm not impressed with anything. Most of the wow factor was borrowed from apple, wm, and htc.
They have done nothing inventive. And how open is this new platform? Not very from what I have seen. Developers are charged $25 (albeit not very much money, but still!) to add something on their marketplace store. This discourages freeware and SDK is pain in the ass. Most non-market apps. won't work because they were written with the older SDK. Everytime Google updates something will the SDK change with it? Who knows but they are off to a very iphone-like start to me at least. Sorry to rant, I actually expected worse problems! So far so good but I expected basics were covered, file explorer, camera settings, and so on. Just wish the BS excuses would go away. but then again, maybe the 3rd party developers can fix it,
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I am sorry but all I see is you whining and crying about something so simple and stupid. I mean do you honestly think they have been sitting on their a$$es this entire time? How long is the new Windows Mobile been in development? Do you think it will release sometime soon? You whine and cry and B!+ch and moan about the phone not being released for several months maybe even a couple years. So they speed it up and give it to us pretty damn fast and now you whine and moan about them not taking the time to add the basics? Last I checked at least you can take pictures. Ohhh boo hoo you can't zoom... you can't zoom on most cell phones... the zoom feature is just digital not like you can't zoom after the photo is taken or crop. Before you start blaming developers you should be happy to just have one in your hands. To cry and moan about not having the features you want in a 1st generation phone is stupid, and you don't deserve one if that is all you are going to do.
BTW... open source is the greatest feature about the phone. It allows anyone and everyone to fully modify the crap out of our phones. the iPhones are now locked... and I am sure that the new windows mobile will be too. Embrace the developers around you... you never know which one is gonna make the next version of android.
neoobs said:
I am sorry but all I see is you whining and crying about something so simple and stupid. I mean do you honestly think they have been sitting on their a$$es this entire time? How long is the new Windows Mobile been in development? Do you think it will release sometime soon? You whine and cry and B!+ch and moan about the phone not being released for several months maybe even a couple years. So they speed it up and give it to us pretty damn fast and now you whine and moan about them not taking the time to add the basics? Last I checked at least you can take pictures. Ohhh boo hoo you can't zoom... you can't zoom on most cell phones... the zoom feature is just digital not like you can't zoom after the photo is taken or crop. Before you start blaming developers you should be happy to just have one in your hands. To cry and moan about not having the features you want in a 1st generation phone is stupid, and you don't deserve one if that is all you are going to do.
BTW... open source is the greatest feature about the phone. It allows anyone and everyone to fully modify the crap out of our phones. the iPhones are now locked... and I am sure that the new windows mobile will be too. Embrace the developers around you... you never know which one is gonna make the next version of android.
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neoobs said:
I am sorry but all I see is you whining and crying about something so simple and stupid. I mean do you honestly think they have been sitting on their a$$es this entire time? How long is the new Windows Mobile been in development? Do you think it will release sometime soon? You whine and cry and B!+ch and moan about the phone not being released for several months maybe even a couple years. So they speed it up and give it to us pretty damn fast and now you whine and moan about them not taking the time to add the basics? Last I checked at least you can take pictures. Ohhh boo hoo you can't zoom... you can't zoom on most cell phones... the zoom feature is just digital not like you can't zoom after the photo is taken or crop. Before you start blaming developers you should be happy to just have one in your hands. To cry and moan about not having the features you want in a 1st generation phone is stupid, and you don't deserve one if that is all you are going to do.
BTW... open source is the greatest feature about the phone. It allows anyone and everyone to fully modify the crap out of our phones. the iPhones are now locked... and I am sure that the new windows mobile will be too. Embrace the developers around you... you never know which one is gonna make the next version of android.
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Click to collapse
neoobs said:
I am sorry but all I see is you whining and crying about something so simple and stupid. I mean do you honestly think they have been sitting on their a$$es this entire time? How long is the new Windows Mobile been in development? Do you think it will release sometime soon? You whine and cry and B!+ch and moan about the phone not being released for several months maybe even a couple years. So they speed it up and give it to us pretty damn fast and now you whine and moan about them not taking the time to add the basics? Last I checked at least you can take pictures. Ohhh boo hoo you can't zoom... you can't zoom on most cell phones... the zoom feature is just digital not like you can't zoom after the photo is taken or crop. Before you start blaming developers you should be happy to just have one in your hands. To cry and moan about not having the features you want in a 1st generation phone is stupid, and you don't deserve one if that is all you are going to do.
BTW... open source is the greatest feature about the phone. It allows anyone and everyone to fully modify the crap out of our phones. the iPhones are now locked... and I am sure that the new windows mobile will be too. Embrace the developers around you... you never know which one is gonna make the next version of android.
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Humm... a camera that can't zoom never heard of one, except those cheap, desposable 35mm cameras. Did I even mention that? Nope... But that is what you can expect from a non-contributing newbie... And btw, we have been modding WM way before you were here or your precious Android OS. Do you even know what basics are? They are what one SHOULD START WITH. Skipping the basics is just foolish. About development, don't forget about WM6.1. They develop their software until it is ready. Alot more things to deal with than Android. As of right now at least. I didn't cry or moan about any release. I rather they get it right before a release. What are you talking about?Why are you quoting me if you didn't read what I wrote?! This is supposed to be a smartphone not basic p.o.s. cellphone. It SHOULD HAVE ZOOM, video recording, and ambience controls. I'm not saying I don't like my new G1... just a little disappointed in the way Google wants the 3rd party developers to do their OWN developers work for them. But this what we get for trusting a search engine to develop a mobile OS, lol! How dare you say WM is locked down?! How is it locked down? We have a WHOLE FORUM THAT WOULD BEG TO DIFFER FROM YOUR STUPID STATEMENT!Go say that in the development and hacking section! What have they been doing for years now! Apple is locked but not Windows Mobile... This is first non-WM device on this forum! You sir, are mildly retarded... to say the least!
sino8r said:
Humm... a camera that can't zoom never heard of one, except those cheap, desposable 35mm cameras. Did I even mention that? Nope... But that is what you can expect from a non-contributing newbie... And btw, we have been modding WM way before you were here or your precious Android OS. Do you even know what basics are? They are what one SHOULD START WITH. Skipping the basics is just foolish. About development, don't forget about WM6.1. They develop their software until it is ready. Alot more things to deal with than Android. As of right now at least. I didn't cry or moan about any release. I rather they get it right before a release. What are you talking about?Why are you quoting me if you didn't read what I wrote?! This is supposed to be a smartphone not basic p.o.s. cellphone. It SHOULD HAVE ZOOM, video recording, and ambience controls. I'm not saying I don't like my new G1... just a little disappointed in the way Google wants the 3rd party developers to do their OWN developers work for them. But this what we get for trusting a search engine to develop a mobile OS, lol! How dare you say WM is locked down?! How is it locked down? We have a WHOLE FORUM THAT WOULD BEG TO DIFFER FROM YOUR STUPID STATEMENT!Go say that in the development and hacking section! What have they been doing for years now! Apple is locked but not Windows Mobile... This is first non-WM device on this forum! You sir, are mildly retarded... to say the least!
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You sure are full of a lot of WHINE and ***** for an early adopter. Maybe you're just not cut out for this. If you really are going to let this phone turn every post into a slurry of barely legible insults I suggest you take the G1 back to the store while you are still within the 14 day remorse period and buy it again when you start getting jealous of all of us who can sit tight without opening our mouths and making fools of ourselves.
Cooled down yet? Hope so.
Comparing a 6.1 platform to a 1.0 platform is a little deceptive.
All of this over a camera application... Yea the current camera application is basic, I agree. It will be updated of course and that's enough for me... And keep in mind that through most of your argument you really aren't differentiating between digital and optical zoom. I can't think of any more than one or two monstrosities that have optical zoom. All the rest is digital, and what is the problem with cropping your photos when you are done taking them, it's exactly the same as a digital zoom, and you can be a little more careless about how centered you shoot when you take the photo. That's the way I've always taken photos... I do agree though, it needs a better feature set in the camera application.
I'm just pointing out that basic camera functionality is fine.
And I don't believe Google is being irresponsible in leaving something to be desired. What if the experts at Cannon/Kodak etc decide to write competing camera applications? We would all win, the apps would be higher quality and more feature rich than anything Google could EVER whip up. Google has left the door open for them to do it...
syrusfrost said:
You sure are full of a lot of WHINE and ***** for an early adopter. Maybe you're just not cut out for this. If you really are going to let this phone turn every post into a slurry of barely legible insults I suggest you take the G1 back to the store while you are still within the 14 day remorse period and buy it again when you start getting jealous of all of us who can sit tight without opening our mouths and making fools of ourselves.
Cooled down yet? Hope so.
Comparing a 6.1 platform to a 1.0 platform is a little deceptive.
All of this over a camera application... Yea the current camera application is basic, I agree. It will be updated of course and that's enough for me... And keep in mind that through most of your argument you really aren't differentiating between digital and optical zoom. I can't think of any more than one or two monstrosities that have optical zoom. All the rest is digital, and what is the problem with cropping your photos when you are done taking them, it's exactly the same as a digital zoom, and you can be a little more careless about how centered you shoot when you take the photo. That's the way I've always taken photos... I do agree though, it needs a better feature set in the camera application.
I'm just pointing out that basic camera functionality is fine.
And I don't believe Google is being irresponsible in leaving something to be desired. What if the experts at Cannon/Kodak etc decide to write competing camera applications? We would all win, the apps would be higher quality and more feature rich than anything Google could EVER whip up. Google has left the door open for them to do it...
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Agree with you 150%... Anyway it is a camera, I dont buy a smart phone for a camera... Do you remember when Windows CE came out???? Sucked... and that was the beginning of Windows on smart phones, now compare it to Android 1.0. There is no comparison with this OS...
Yos025 said:
Agree with you 150%... Anyway it is a camera, I dont buy a smart phone for a camera... Do you remember when Windows CE came out???? Sucked... and that was the beginning of Windows on smart phones, now compare it to Android 1.0. There is no comparison with this OS...
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So far Android is a hell of a lot better than WM ever was, I can remember rebooting my WM phones several times within the first couple days due to lock ups and low memory issues. So far I have yet to need to reboot the phone for any issues like this. Who cares about the camera, I have never seen a good camera phone, they are just good for taking decent quick photos thats it. Want a good camera buy a real camera.
I personally think they did a great job with Android so far. Just wait, later on people will be asking for a "vanilla" version- which is what we have right now
I also think the camera works as good as any I have ever used on a cell phone. I love the 2 position button, and my real camera doesnt do barcodes either
ranger7424 said:
So far Android is a hell of a lot better than WM ever was, I can remember rebooting my WM phones several times within the first couple days due to lock ups and low memory issues. So far I have yet to need to reboot the phone for any issues like this. Who cares about the camera, I have never seen a good camera phone, they are just good for taking decent quick photos thats it. Want a good camera buy a real camera.
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The only time I use my phone camera is actually when I forget mine good camera and I am in a baseball game or something like that... BTW you are right about restarting WM because of low memory issues. It used to drive me crazy... Android is by far more stable... Even keeping 6 apps open at one time
agreed that it could use some more features and that they will be coming. That was kinda the promise of Android from day 1: it's open source so anyone can make anything for it. As an aside, I'm guessing that's a no on that flash/camera app since monday is almost over.
I just want to start out by saying that this is in no way a knock at any developers, or Google, it's just a question I had. I'd figure it out myself, but I haven't had a chance to delve into Android development yet (too busy with other work) so I thought I'd ask some experts.
I love my Nexus One, and I'm a big fan of Android. I'm blown away how far it's come in such a short time, and how much potential I see in its future. One of the only areas I feel the phone is lacking, is in attractiveness of the OS and apps. I feel that people are drawn to pretty things, and it's one of the reasons that the iPhone is so popular. Apple puts a tremendous amount of effort into aesthetic design of their software, and it shows. From what I've seen so far, I feel like a lot of Android apps (or at least third party apps) are lacking in that design and polish, and in many cases seem to indicate that developers are taking the path of least resistance.
I don't think that Android is ugly whatsoever, but I do feel that most of the apps I've seen are not as pretty as they could be. Sure, the HTC widgets add a lot, but I'm talking more on a fundamental level of design, and I actually have a great example to illustrate where I think things should go.
The Gallery app. This is a beautiful work of design in my opinion. The design of the entire application is simple, yet elegant. I love the rounded, clean look of the icons, and the menus, and the way the pictures are displayed and how you traverse the application. To give a contrast, if I go into one of my favorite apps functionality-wise (Last.fm - who has a gorgeous website and 360 app), I'm totally turned off by the appearance. It's plain, and gray, and drab. It's just got those arrowed clickable areas, and that's about it. Seesmic, another great app, is also extremely drab and unappealing. It gives me a feeling of looking at an application created in Visual Basic 6 (if anyone has experience with this ha!). Heck, they just implemented multiple accounts, and instead of having a slick screen, it's just a list of accounts that probably took 3 minutes to implement. The moment I looked at the screen I thought to myself how this would be the perfect place for a Windows 7ish login screen; an enlarged view of your portrait with your info underneath that allows you to swipe back and forth to choose which account you want to use.
I know this is a long post, but I just wanted to illustrate my feelings. My question; is this a matter of Google not providing the proper toolsets, an abundance of armchair developers who don't have the resources to make pretty UI's/lack of professional developers, or just plain lazy developers?
Any insight would be appreciated. I feel that this is one huge component Google needs to focus on to be able to properly compete with Apple. I can understand in the past allowing the TPM's to customize their builds how they want them to look, but with the launch of the Nexus, I feel it's time for Google to step up to the plate and really focus on the design of their OS.
xSiraris said:
I just want to start out by saying that this is in no way a knock at any developers, or Google, it's just a question I had. I'd figure it out myself, but I haven't had a chance to delve into Android development yet (too busy with other work) so I thought I'd ask some experts.
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i think you said it yourself, "too busy with other work"
well in terms of Google, one thing I've never regarded them for is design. look at their online presence. it's not all that attractive. functional and optimizable, yes. slick looking, no. but that's their business. Apple really concentrates on the 'feel' of total UX, but at the expense of personalization. Google is more about providing service, but at the expense of design.
that being said, the iPhone OS desktop is looking more and more boring to me all the time. I genuinely like the how Android desktop looks (except for maybe the notification bar).
as for apps, I think the rough edges around Android apps will disappear as Android gains market share. right now, devs don't have all that much incentive to concentrate on Android while iPhone is king. I'm sure inthe next few years it will even out (although I do expect the iPhone to dominate for a good while to come).
j.books said:
well in terms of Google, one thing I've never regarded them for is design. look at their online presence. it's not all that attractive. functional and optimizable, yes. slick looking, no. but that's their business. Apple really concentrates on the 'feel' of total UX, but at the expense of personalization. Google is more about providing service, but at the expense of design.
that being said, the iPhone OS desktop is looking more and more boring to me all the time. I genuinely like the how Android desktop looks (except for maybe the notification bar).
as for apps, I think the rough edges around Android apps will disappear as Android gains market share. right now, devs don't have all that much incentive to concentrate on Android while iPhone is king. I'm sure inthe next few years it will even out (although I do expect the iPhone to dominate for a good while to come).
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The OS itself isn't really the issue. I'm talking more the controls provided. I think they could be improved, and I feel they ARE improved in the Gallery app. I'd like to see that kind of design in more apps, as opposed to what I'm seeing in most now. There's certain standards of design that just are not found in most apps outside of the first party ones (I think maps, finance, gallery and the browser are all great looking apps, while Calendar, and Translate could use some work).
And Google may not have had to focus on design to this point, but if they want to go up against Apple, I think they will have to.
I think app wise, its due to Android being open & no one is saying yes or no to apps. Developers can slap a few sounds together & call it a soundboard, there's a new app in the market.
Apple, on the other hand, has the final say. If it doesn't look the way they want or up to their standards, they can turn it down. I bet if Apple just let anyone submit apps at any time, you'd see a lot of crap there too.
Its just a matter of having standards... no one is forcing Android developers to make a pretty app. As cool as it is having an open market, it would be that much better to have some sort of standards.
This just being my opinion of course... I have an iPod touch & ever since Android came out, I haven't bought an app from the app store. If Apple let go of the reigns a little, I think they would be so much better. But I don't like being told what I can & can't have on my phone, which is why my iPod is jailbroken.
Google could do a lot just by making their notification bar/widgets/etc black. This (imho) goes a long way to making android look more like a competitor in the smartphone arena.
Doesn't it also have to do with the "default" button style in Android? This might make no sense so sorry if it doesn't.
Go into calendar and choose New Event from the menu. There you see the "default" buttons for Android which are used throughout - the buttons for the time and date. The little grey ones with the slight gradient. I think that the Android SDK just has very limited built in design tools / default buttons to choose from that just make it uglier. I feel like I saw a demo of the iPhone SDK once and they had like a design screen where you could graphically design the UI and they had a bunch of objects to choose from that you could customize but they were all really nice looking.
Android doesn't seem to have anything like this - no "design" view or anything in the SDK and very limited built in design tools or default objects.
Part of the difference you're noticing is in he two SDKs. The iPhone app design is really locked down in a lot of ways. When building a GUI for the iPhone, you start out with Apple's default set of super shiny buttons so it's difficult to make an app that doesn't look pretty and cohesive. If you do manage to do so, your app isn't approved.
With Android, Google gives developers just a framework. Everything is minimalist and bare. This of course gives developers more freedom to build unique GUIs but like you said most don't and like others said, there is no moderation. Making a truly great GUI is a LOT of work and most devs are just engineers. Only the teams with lots of money hire designers and graphics artists. Both methods have their pros and cons
cboy007 said:
Doesn't it also have to do with the "default" button style in Android? This might make no sense so sorry if it doesn't.
Go into calendar and choose New Event from the menu. There you see the "default" buttons for Android which are used throughout - the buttons for the time and date. The little grey ones with the slight gradient. I think that the Android SDK just has very limited built in design tools / default buttons to choose from that just make it uglier. I feel like I saw a demo of the iPhone SDK once and they had like a design screen where you could graphically design the UI and they had a bunch of objects to choose from that you could customize but they were all really nice looking.
Android doesn't seem to have anything like this - no "design" view or anything in the SDK and very limited built in design tools or default objects.
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No one has commented on the Gallery buttons I referenced. I think these are much better looking than the controls found in other apps. If they were to use something more along those lines in other apps, I'd be much happier.
But I understand what is being said, and I hope Google does something about it. I appreciate the freedom they are giving to developers, but appearance counts, and if developers don't have the time or resources to make the pretty GUI's, then Google should provide the tools to help them do so.
I just had an idea that may actually help. One of the things third party developers are complaining about (I'm talking about the professionals here, not armchair) is that their apps aren't being seen, or bought, and getting lost in the shuffle. What if Google created an authorized/registered developer program, where a third party developer could register with Google. At this point, they would be held up to higher standards and practices, but Google would create a separate place on the marketplace, or some way to filter by registered/authorized developers.
The way it is now, everything is getting lost in the shuffle. This method would give the exposure the professionals want, it would improve the quality of apps on the marketplace, all while leaving the open market that exists today.
I agree. Sounds like a good idea--right now, even the most polished, best apps can easily get overlooked if they aren't spammed up on several tech/Android blogs. It's why it took me so long to discover, say, Home++
desktop app browser
also, an online desktop app catalogue would help, simply because there is not enough space on a small screen to display a lot of variety. I guess they want to keep everything on-phone, as opposed to iTunes where you have to be plugged-in to install apps, but they could do something where you choose an app from your desktop browser and it pushes a notification to your phone. then when you go to the notification, it brings you to the app in the market, where you can DL and install it.
this would preserve the ability to get apps on the go if you need them with the expanded view of a desktop, creating more visibility for the apps, without compelling you to connect your phone to your desktop.
S
j.books said:
also, an online desktop app catalogue would help, simply because there is not enough space on a small screen to display a lot of variety. I guess they want to keep everything on-phone, as opposed to iTunes where you have to be plugged-in to install apps, but they could do something where you choose an app from your desktop browser and it pushes a notification to your phone. then when you go to the notification, it brings you to the app in the market, where you can DL and install it.
this would preserve the ability to get apps on the go if you need them with the expanded view of a desktop, creating more visibility for the apps, without compelling you to connect your phone to your desktop.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Orrr you can just go to AndroLib.com, scan the app, and donwload it in the market!
Several reasons...
1. Google simply doesnt have a good visual design team or a good visual design lead.
The gallery app looks wonderful becuase it was made by cooliris. Not google.
I admit they have gotten better. The transition to home/apps and live wallpapers are great and have great visual appeal.Standard N1 UI w/a live wallpaper is better looking than iphone and just slightly behind a palm pre. Where as it was way behind in 1.6
So they obviously have tried to focus more on there visuals.
They still have some improvements to make but its always iffy since they dont have a track record for great visuals.
2. The visualtools arent uniform. Thats a good thing for Devs not needing to get "approved" for everything... But it does mean that Iphone apps are drawing from a pool of buttons/icons/layouts that were made by some of the visual people in the business.
3. Even without that the visual people on the Mac/Apple side of things are more talented. To be long winded theres a world of designers and coders. Few VERY few can do both well. Its become clear to me in a short time just how good Android devs are on addressing needs and issues. Heck even the OS experience changes becuase of there talents.
But they cant visually design worth a damned.
Very few apps on iphone even from the jailbreak community seemed as well made or intuitive. Even there hallmark cydia was utter crap. It could be apples closed system of course but just got a sense of clunkiness and low level winmo app making.
4. $$$$$$$
At the end of the day a company or App dev can make beautiful apps on iPhone with little gambling. Its easier to make money in the Apple store thus easier to hire quality visual people to give coders great layouts pieces to work with.
Not much incentive to go hire out some UI designer when you can slap together some easy photoshop stuff yourself.
If Fandango or Directv (just examples) hire some visual dudes to help make its app for iphone..then 6 months later for android the chances are really high hes going to see the lack of Apple given/mandated visuals and realize he has to do everything himself. Unless hes really dedicated hes not going to max out that potential hes going to slap together the best look alike he can.
This has and is happening regularly from what I understand.
Thats it in a nutshell.
Just a blog re: ICS enabling full hardware acceleration of the GUI. We've all figured it would make our tablets sprint but this is putting things in a new light so I figured I'd post it here.
Linky
I'm sure the programmers and people on top of Android out there knew this. It sort of worries me though. Keeping in mind, Apple is running a totally different system - it sort of makes me respect iOS more so, to know that such a smooth system exists within the limits of 256MB of Memory when we're going upwards of 512MB and still having 'issues'. Don't jump down my throat, I don't want iOS (or an idevice), I'm just sayin'.
Jesus. I've known for a long time that there is something wrong with the way Android accelerates stuff and the whole UI design paradigm, but that's just boneheaded o_o That begs the question though: who made the decision to implement acceleration in such a horrible way and why wasn't it designed properly from the get-go? Anyone who has the slightest experience in OpenGL programming would've been able to tell them they're doing it wrong.
What a stunningly stupid way to implement things.
Just goes to show how much difference it really makes when it comes to having experience in OS development...
I like Android, but this design choice was just... dumb.
FloatingFatMan said:
What a stunningly stupid way to implement things.
Just goes to show how much difference it really makes when it comes to having experience in development...
I like Android, but this design choice was just... dumb.
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Well, there are several shortcomings to Android exactly because of these kinds of brainfarts, like e.g. the permissions system is terribly sketchy and should've received a lot more Q/A. But now that it's released there's little Google can do about it without breaking compatibility as they didn't even plan for it to be extendable.
I do quite like Android, but it's too uneven to really feel professional or trustworthy. I just recently pondered about what I'd want from a future mobile tablet on my Google+ page and while I didn't mention it there, I feel like Win8 would've been in a terrific position for the OS on such a device if they didn't decide to remove traditional desktop from the ARM-version. I know Windows and Microsoft aren't popular here, but they've got a lot more experience with OS-development than Google and are a lot better at power-management design and acceleration of UI and its drivers, plus they've really put some real effort into security lately. Alas, with them scrapping traditional desktop from ARM-version Win8 won't cut it, either.
You guys should read Google's blog post. That article misses one huge point: the trade off. This was far from a bad implementation, it was just a very different one. If you read the article you would know that ios freezes if you hold your finger on screen while loading a large list, Android does not. Android balances the CPU threads for ui display and data processing somewhat equally, while ios grants utter priority to their ui display thread . Basically, if the ui display thread is busy, data processing stops. Android is the winner, it is ios that will now be limited in speed with this configuration until it is optimized for new hardware much like how Android currently works!
autom8r said:
You guys should read Google's blog post. That article misses one huge point: the trade off. This was far from a bad implementation, it was just a very different one. If you read the article you would know that ios freezes if you hold your finger on screen while loading a large list, Android does not. Android balances the CPU threads for ui display and data processing somewhat equally, while ios grants utter priority to their ui display thread . Basically, if the ui display thread is busy, data processing stops. Android is the winner, it is ios that will now be limited in speed with this configuration until it is optimized for new hardware much like how Android currently works!
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Click to collapse
Uh, it is a bad implementation. You can have both a good implementation AND still balance priority of both the rendering queue and application threads, they are not mutually exclusive.
WereCatf said:
Well, there are several shortcomings to Android exactly because of these kinds of brainfarts, like e.g. the permissions system is terribly sketchy and should've received a lot more Q/A. But now that it's released there's little Google can do about it without breaking compatibility as they didn't even plan for it to be extendable.
I do quite like Android, but it's too uneven to really feel professional or trustworthy. I just recently pondered about what I'd want from a future mobile tablet on my Google+ page and while I didn't mention it there, I feel like Win8 would've been in a terrific position for the OS on such a device if they didn't decide to remove traditional desktop from the ARM-version. I know Windows and Microsoft aren't popular here, but they've got a lot more experience with OS-development than Google and are a lot better at power-management design and acceleration of UI and its drivers, plus they've really put some real effort into security lately. Alas, with them scrapping traditional desktop from ARM-version Win8 won't cut it, either.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If Microsoft is dumb enough to kill desktop mode on ARM, that really destroys the Win8 tablet market outside of running on Intel chips, which puts them at sub-par graphics. I suppose the only hope then is if AMD steps in and I'm not all that much a fan of AMD, though they have tried to make good efforts in the mobile arena with their A-series chips and having decent GPUs.
I suppose I'll keep an eye on this and see what Microsoft does. Given their lack of intelligent decision making of late (ie. far dumber than their normal stupidity), I don't hold out much hope. Pity, Win8 tablets were looking strong, too.
Gnoop said:
If Microsoft is dumb enough to kill desktop mode on ARM, that really destroys the Win8 tablet market outside of running on Intel chips, which puts them at sub-par graphics. I suppose the only hope then is if AMD steps in and I'm not all that much a fan of AMD, though they have tried to make good efforts in the mobile arena with their A-series chips and having decent GPUs.
I suppose I'll keep an eye on this and see what Microsoft does. Given their lack of intelligent decision making of late (ie. far dumber than their normal stupidity), I don't hold out much hope. Pity, Win8 tablets were looking strong, too.
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Click to collapse
The Metro-interface is aimed for touch-based devices, including tablets. Desktop-mode doesn't work too well on such. The problem is that Win8 tablet could serve as BOTH a mobile device AND a desktop computer if Microsoft played its cards right and thus reserve a very nice spot for itself.
WereCatf said:
The Metro-interface is aimed for touch-based devices, including tablets. Desktop-mode doesn't work too well on such. The problem is that Win8 tablet could serve as BOTH a mobile device AND a desktop computer if Microsoft played its cards right and thus reserve a very nice spot for itself.
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Click to collapse
Indeed. Being able to handle both of those would hook me in pretty easily.
I started this off as a response to another thread inquiring about bugs or issues with 9.0, but ended up writing up a full piece about the useability and functionality of the system and decided to make it a new thread. In short, I suggest to anyone considering the update, if you're happy with your current set up and are not fond of relearning how to use something you carry and depend on every day, then you will probably want to stay on 8.1.
I used it from the day it released up until 2 days ago and found it to be a massive clusterf*ck of UI/UX inconsistencies, glaring white, and broken useability features. Notifications are a mess, settings and features which were organized into reasonable categories are now buried in unrelated submenus and renamed confusingly, reliable UI/UX features have been swapped with newer less obvious actions, gestures, and unclear UI elements, drastically unrelated font families have been thrown together to create a very visually jarring reading experience, the system UI has enough white-on-white you could use the phone as a beacon in a storm, and the color choices seem to have been based on focus groups conducted with toddlers. Maybe it's just me getting old and stubborn towards change, but the consistency and predictability of 8.1 is nowhere to be found in 9.0.
As for the backend, a lot has been added, more than I can recall or understand, but the PrivateDNS and MAC randomization are nice security upgrades that are actually useful for those who live in places with ubiquitous but often sketchy, less-than-open internet fuctionality. It is noticeably faster visually, but also particularly faster in dealing with larger files and database types of information. Small tweaks, like the media volume default, and the dynamic rotation icon in the navbar, are welcome additions, but those come at the expense of the god-awful, take it or leave it, reworking of the Recents overview page. I know it's currently optional, but I gave the new gesture system a go, and eventually got used to it. However, it's going to take some massive tweaking down the road for it to be anywhere near as efficient and simple as the old navbar and vertical card overview.
Core device functionality is fine and battery was fair, almost the same, but I run a very lean system and also disable a lot of services since I currently live in a country with restricted Google access and most of those features are useless to me. Camera is still best-in-class and shouldn't be expected to change since the core camera functionality is in the hardware, the Camera app, and the Pixel Visual Core extension app. Basically any system apps that update via the Play Store should and do function as expected without any noticeable problems. While not specifically a Google problem, it's still worth mentioning that some apps are not yet ready for 9.0 and need to be updated by their developers.
My personal opinion, 9.0 is Android's "Windows Vista" moment, and they'd be smart to pull the whole thing back to beta and hold the release until they get their UI/UX overhaul ready for a full primetime roll-out. The system runs like it was built and tuned specifically for the Pixel hardware, but the user experience made me cringe every time I picked up my phone.
I spent the last 36 hours downgrading to 8.1 from a full wipe, clean setup, and restoring an adb backup. I now have a phone that I actually enjoy using again and I couldn't be happier with it.
Edit:
In considering a few friends opinions regarding Betas and Developer Previews, I'm inclined to temper my opinions, but only slightly.
Yes, I agree, that taking part in the Beta and Developer Preview (DP) process of OS releases helps determine many important aspects of the OS. However, in the case of entities this large, that involvement is really only meant to be as bug chasers. Beta and DP user's opinions on UI/UX matters are largely ignored, as they do not fit within the framework of said entities larger goal: Mass Usage (i.e. the lowest common denominator, AKA the ignorant child-like masses). They only want you for your ability to create and willingness to report showstopping bugs. They don't need the developer or niche user community to make UI/UX choices, they have focus groups for that. Unfortunately, the customer isn't always right, and people don't usually know what they actually like or why. Chase opinions, focus groups, ad engagement, click data, and the fastest dollar, and eventually we'll all be living in a Fisher-Price world (see: Asia).
The second problem with participating in these not-really-beta and almost-but-not-quite-developer-previews is that, not only have they already made all of the major decisions about how it's going to look and be used, expert use and experience be-damned, but by participating in these programs, the user is effectively subjecting themselves to a brainwashing scheme meant to dull the discerning mind into believing that "vX.X is so much better now than when it first hit public preview". It's the equivalent of software Stockholm Syndrome. Public Beta and DP users have deluded themselves that this final release is ok based on how they saw it change from the first public preview release. It's still just as awful as it was when it first went public, it's just a slightly better shade of awful.
It's a damned shame such a powerful and well running OS feels like it had such an awful UI/UX thrown on top of it. It's inconsistent, half baked, and feels like a grab at the ignorant, screen-obsessed masses, if they were color-blind with 20/200 vision. This is professional grade coding with pre-alpha grade UI/UX. A system built for power with a GUI designed for infantiles, on a device aimed at enthusiasts. They should be ashamed.
I'm not struggling like you with the UI. But, in order to get the new hidden/back end benefits and avoid most of UI issues, why not just run a different launcher?
WibblyW said:
I'm not struggling like you with the UI. But, in order to get the new hidden/back end benefits and avoid most of UI issues, why not just run a different launcher?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I always do. Been a die hard Nova user for years. But there are some really weird glitches with how 9.0 and third party launchers interact. I managed to work most of them out but never regained that full, fluid, native UX like with previous versions.
Finally, someone who understands. I've been thinking that I'm the only one disgusted by this release.
How did you revert back to 8.1?
Unlock bootloader, flash-all script, re-lock?
harisyks said:
Finally, someone who understands. I've been thinking that I'm the only one disgusted by this release.
How did you revert back to 8.1?
Unlock bootloader, flash-all script, re-lock?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Backed up everything with Titanium, did a full /sdcard backup to pc via adb, full partition wipe via TWRP, then ran the flash-all script from the July image.
Afterwards, same as my usual manual update. Boot to TWRP flash kernel, and Magisk.
Followed by the painstaking process of a full manual setup of clean device.
Then installed Titanium and SD Maid, disabled all unnecessary services and activity hooks, restored SD Maid settings via Titanium, cleaned caches, then restored my /sdcard via adb, then restored user apps and user app settings via Titanium.
Then individually redownloaded all the individual app files that didn't make it in the backup.
And now, here I am, posting from my 8.1 device like the last two weeks never happened.
Edit:
If you're bootlocked, then you'll need to backup your important /sdcard files via file transfer or adb, unlock to do the fastboot method of restoring the stock 8.1 July image, then just relock, restore your /sdcard via file transfer or adb, and then manually download and setup all your apps fresh.
If I had to do all that, I would have either suffered with 9.0, or waited till I had enough whiskey and coffee on hand to suffer through a long weekend of a full manual setup.
@jallenhayslett thanks for the detailed reply, I appreciate it.
I'm don't have a lot to back up, so a clean flash isn't a major issue for me. I'll probably wait for the September security patch to see if they've changed anything and then decide.
So many tears about very minor UI changes. I don't get it. I feel like it the time you spent complaining about it you could have learned to use it.
crixley said:
So many tears about very minor UI changes. I don't get it. I feel like it the time you spent complaining about it you could have learned to use it.
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Click to collapse
I tend to live by the "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" ethos. "Just shut up and learn to love it" only exists in the section of my dictionary labeled "if absolutely necessary".
Mind you, I live and work in a country where ignoring things until they become festering, puss filled, infected boils is almost as commonplace as breathing, so I'm well acquainted with how I should just adjust and get by. I refuse to accept garbage products here as well, despite knowing it won't change many opinions.
jallenhayslett said:
I tend to live by the "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" ethos. "Just shut up and learn to love it" only exists in the section of my dictionary labeled "if absolutely necessary".
Mind you, I live and work in a country where ignoring things until they become festering, puss filled, infected boils is almost as commonplace as breathing, so I'm well acquainted with how I should just adjust and get by. I refuse to accept garbage products here as well, despite knowing it won't change many opinions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Many like the changes, so who decides that it is or isn't garbage? I like it personally, so is your opinion the only valid one, is mine? Etc.. It's changed, either adapt or move to something else.
crixley said:
Many like the changes, so who decides that it is or isn't garbage? I like it personally, so is your opinion the only valid one, is mine? Etc.. It's changed, either adapt or move to something else.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Glad you like it, regardless of my opinion. I did, however, move on, or back, rather.
Interesting though that I am not the only one to have similar opinions. opinions that have been mentioned and discussed as far back as the first preview build. But our opinions don't matter, and they aren't about the preview builds, they're about the release build, and our opinions matter even less in regards to public release builds.
Why these opinions and the opinions of countless others matter, is because, while occasionally drenched in colorful, subjective language, they actually address some very objective, glaringly obvious missteps taken by the departments responsible for UI and UX. Missteps which, whether you like, dislike, approve, or disapprove, resulted in repeatable glitches, slowdowns, and inefficiencies. Missteps which those departments chose to gloss over and/or ignore for the sake of shipping a subjectively better looking, subjectively cleaner, and subjectively prettier product on schedule, despite grievances aired by the developer community during testing phases.
So, yes, I agree. My opinion really doesn't matter. But, if that's the case, then neither does yours. Whether the opinions themselves address objective or subjective matters, at the end of the day, they are nothing but feelings. And feelings don't matter. Only facts.
I don't really understand what you say about never getting back the old fluidity, I've found no problems myself: the few gestures they have are simple to adapt to, and I'd personally probably have gone the whole hog and replaced the back button with a swipe left on the pill (easier to reach than a button that's off to the left, though I've customised my nav bar to move it in closer). I genuinely haven't felt any loss of usability, and use some features more (i.e. I occasionally remember the quick swipe to switch to last app, never remembered the equivalent with the old recents button).
I actually prefer the new "recent apps". Mind you, I always disliked the old "rolodex" style, so pretty much anything would be an improvement, but I often find it useful that I can actually read information off my recent apps without switching to them (e.g. when I'm looking something up in one app and using the information in another). So it's a matter of what you use the phone for and how you use it, but overall I find it better. Please don't feel obliged to label me as a member of the "ignorant, child-like masses" for having a different opinion from you.
Aesthetically I would prefer a more muted colour scheme in the settings, but Oreo was also blindingly white. And at least you no longer need substratum if you just want a dark notification slider with a light wallpaper (though we are back to needing root for proper theming, which is a regression, though since this is XDA we shouldn't find that a big problem).
Besides which, Vista's problems were of a different order to this
jallenhayslett said:
Glad you like it, regardless of my opinion. I did, however, move on, or back, rather.
Interesting though that I am not the only one to have similar opinions. opinions that have been mentioned and discussed as far back as the first preview build. But our opinions don't matter, and they aren't about the preview builds, they're about the release build, and our opinions matter even less in regards to public release builds.
Why these opinions and the opinions of countless others matter, is because, while occasionally drenched in colorful, subjective language, they actually address some very objective, glaringly obvious missteps taken by the departments responsible for UI and UX. Missteps which, whether you like, dislike, approve, or disapprove, resulted in repeatable glitches, slowdowns, and inefficiencies. Missteps which those departments chose to gloss over and/or ignore for the sake of shipping a subjectively better looking, subjectively cleaner, and subjectively prettier product on schedule, despite grievances aired by the developer community during testing phases.
So, yes, I agree. My opinion really doesn't matter. But, if that's the case, then neither does yours. Whether the opinions themselves address objective or subjective matters, at the end of the day, they are nothing but feelings. And feelings don't matter. Only facts.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again "glaringly obvious" is opinion based. You're treating your opinion as factual.
I'm not saying my opinion matters either, what I'm saying is based on fact. Whether or not you like it, or I like it, it exists and is how it is.
Now, again, you can adapt to it, or just not update ever. I don't really care what you do, but I don't think much else is going to cure your grievances.
For every person that didn't like it during tested, at least 1 did.
I suppose you could write to them and tell them they should design it how you like it. Or to hire you, since you obviously know what everyone else wants on the UI.
jallenhayslett said:
I started this off as a response to another thread inquiring about bugs or issues with 9.0, but ended up writing up a full piece about the useability and functionality of the system and decided to make it a new thread. In short, I suggest to anyone considering the update, if you're happy with your current set up and are not fond of relearning how to use something you carry and depend on every day, then you will probably want to stay on 8.1.
I used it from the day it released up until 2 days ago and found it to be a massive clusterf*ck of UI/UX inconsistencies, glaring white, and broken useability features. Notifications are a mess, settings and features which were organized into reasonable categories are now buried in unrelated submenus and renamed confusingly, reliable UI/UX features have been swapped with newer less obvious actions, gestures, and unclear UI elements, drastically unrelated font families have been thrown together to create a very visually jarring reading experience, the system UI has enough white-on-white you could use the phone as a beacon in a storm, and the color choices seem to have been based on focus groups conducted with toddlers. Maybe it's just me getting old and stubborn towards change, but the consistency and predictability of 8.1 is nowhere to be found in 9.0.
As for the backend, a lot has been added, more than I can recall or understand, but the PrivateDNS and MAC randomization are nice security upgrades that are actually useful for those who live in places with ubiquitous but often sketchy, less-than-open internet fuctionality. It is noticeably faster visually, but also particularly faster in dealing with larger files and database types of information. Small tweaks, like the media volume default, and the dynamic rotation icon in the navbar, are welcome additions, but those come at the expense of the god-awful, take it or leave it, reworking of the Recents overview page. I know it's currently optional, but I gave the new gesture system a go, and eventually got used to it. However, it's going to take some massive tweaking down the road for it to be anywhere near as efficient and simple as the old navbar and vertical card overview.
Core device functionality is fine and battery was fair, almost the same, but I run a very lean system and also disable a lot of services since I currently live in a country with restricted Google access and most of those features are useless to me. Camera is still best-in-class and shouldn't be expected to change since the core camera functionality is in the hardware, the Camera app, and the Pixel Visual Core extension app. Basically any system apps that update via the Play Store should and do function as expected without any noticeable problems. While not specifically a Google problem, it's still worth mentioning that some apps are not yet ready for 9.0 and need to be updated by their developers.
My personal opinion, 9.0 is Android's "Windows Vista" moment, and they'd be smart to pull the whole thing back to beta and hold the release until they get their UI/UX overhaul ready for a full primetime roll-out. The system runs like it was built and tuned specifically for the Pixel hardware, but the user experience made me cringe every time I picked up my phone.
I spent the last 36 hours downgrading to 8.1 from a full wipe, clean setup, and restoring an adb backup. I now have a phone that I actually enjoy using again and I couldn't be happier with it.
Edit:
In considering a few friends opinions regarding Betas and Developer Previews, I'm inclined to temper my opinions, but only slightly.
Yes, I agree, that taking part in the Beta and Developer Preview (DP) process of OS releases helps determine many important aspects of the OS. However, in the case of entities this large, that involvement is really only meant to be as bug chasers. Beta and DP user's opinions on UI/UX matters are largely ignored, as they do not fit within the framework of said entities larger goal: Mass Usage (i.e. the lowest common denominator, AKA the ignorant child-like masses). They only want you for your ability to create and willingness to report showstopping bugs. They don't need the developer or niche user community to make UI/UX choices, they have focus groups for that. Unfortunately, the customer isn't always right, and people don't usually know what they actually like or why. Chase opinions, focus groups, ad engagement, click data, and the fastest dollar, and eventually we'll all be living in a Fisher-Price world (see: Asia).
The second problem with participating in these not-really-beta and almost-but-not-quite-developer-previews is that, not only have they already made all of the major decisions about how it's going to look and be used, expert use and experience be-damned, but by participating in these programs, the user is effectively subjecting themselves to a brainwashing scheme meant to dull the discerning mind into believing that "vX.X is so much better now than when it first hit public preview". It's the equivalent of software Stockholm Syndrome. Public Beta and DP users have deluded themselves that this final release is ok based on how they saw it change from the first public preview release. It's still just as awful as it was when it first went public, it's just a slightly better shade of awful.
It's a damned shame such a powerful and well running OS feels like it had such an awful UI/UX thrown on top of it. It's inconsistent, half baked, and feels like a grab at the ignorant, screen-obsessed masses, if they were color-blind with 20/200 vision. This is professional grade coding with pre-alpha grade UI/UX. A system built for power with a GUI designed for infantiles, on a device aimed at enthusiasts. They should be ashamed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just buy a Samsung phone and you won't have to worry about Pie for another year or two.
DuckRuckus said:
Just buy a Samsung phone and you won't have to worry about Pie for another year or two.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This.
Large Hadron said:
Besides which, Vista's problems were of a different order to this
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That we can agree on. It was a nightmare of a different sort. That's just the best analogy I could come up with at the time.
As for yours and everyone else's reponse regarding this being just opinion, I agree. I just had such a visceral reaction to the changes that it prompted me to write about it, and the more I wrote, the more disgusted I became. It's 90% subjective opinion.
I do, however, stand by what I've said, especially regarding their use of white, the color choices, and most specifically the mixing of unrelated font families within the same app. From a design perspective, theoretically, they just shouldn't work, but clearly they do for some people and that's just baffling to me. Moreover, it doesn't simply just not work for me, it makes me physically uncomfortable to use them. I've even gone so far as to turn off updates and detach from the market any of the apps which will be getting the MD2.0 makeover. For me they are so aesthetically revolting that using them is actually a chore.
So yeah, it is all subjective opinion. It's just very difficult for me to understand how something that elicited such a gut wrenching physical revulsion from me has either the opposite or no effect on other people. I would have expected a much larger amount of agreement. Such is the nature of opinion and perception, I suppose.
As for the "ignorant idiot" comments, that was not intended to make anyone feel as such. It was meant to illustrate how most of these companies, for the sake of money and reaching the widest possible audience, are in a race to the bottom. If 90% of the population happens to respond to infantile visuals, then that is what they will strive to create. The problem with that, however, is that it creates a negative feeback loop that results in ever decreasing usability and a perpetual dumbing down of not only the system, but of the people that use the system. It reaches a point where it's no longer about the balance between function and form, but whether or not a 3 year old will smile and giggle when they pick it up. Sophistication goes out the window in favor of raw simplicity. Think "Idiocracy", but applied to consumer tech instead of life and politics.
DuckRuckus said:
Just buy a Samsung phone and you won't have to worry about Pie for another year or two.
Click to expand...
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I'd rather die in a raging house fire in a cabin in the woods alone on Christmas Eve than ever buy another Samsung phone.
jallenhayslett said:
As for the "ignorant idiot" comments, that was not intended to make anyone feel as such. It was meant to illustrate how most of these companies, for the sake of money and reaching the widest possible audience, are in a race to the bottom. If 90% of the population happens to respond to infantile visuals, then that is what they will strive to create. The problem with that, however, is that it creates a negative feeback loop that results in ever decreasing usability and a perpetual dumbing down of not only the system, but of the people that use the system. It reaches a point where it's no longer about the balance between function and form, but whether or not a 3 year old will smile and giggle when they pick it up. Sophistication goes out the window in favor of raw simplicity. Think "Idiocracy", but applied to consumer tech instead of life and politics.
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This is so hilariously pompous, you must have an insanely high opinion of yourself.
The fact that a UIs design elicits this degree of a response from you is ridiculous.
You seem to think that anyone that doesn't share your opinion on design is an idiot, which is pathetic.
"I don't really like Jackson Pollock" "Oh the world is burninggggg! it's Idiocracy! Wahhhhh"
crixley said:
This is so hilariously pompous, you must have an insanely high opinion of yourself.
The fact that a UIs design elicits this degree of a response from you is ridiculous.
You seem to think that anyone that doesn't share your opinion on design is an idiot, which is pathetic.
"I don't really like Jackson Pollock" "Oh the world is burninggggg! it's Idiocracy! Wahhhhh"
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Funny. I actually don't really like Jackson Pollock. Good call.
I'm not having any of these problems, I went and did a complete wipe and Flash the factory image not the OTA, TWRP and rooted, with ElementalX kernel
This post threw me for a loop. I guess mileage will vary??? I've been on 9 for several days now and I love it. It's snappier and there are features available now that I debated selling the phone over. I'm glad I stuck with it. I had a touch screen latency problem that is gone now. If it wasn't I would have ditched it and moved on to something else. Not much substance or quantification in this post but my vote is solidly with 9.0. My opinion only. I firmly believe 8.1 looked good but had some serious issues. I've always believed form should follow function. It can look great but if it doesn't work, it doesn't matter.