Database Users

KINm - revival or double flop?

It seems to me that the KINm phones (or atleast the TWOm) are the only product in a specific niche of the cell phone / smartphone market, namely they offer WiFi browsing w/o an expensive data plan.
I would suspect that there is a pretty big group of users who would want exactly that. But, they probably don't know the option exists, especially if Verizon doesn't really advertise this phone. (They don't even have it in Verizon stores that I have been to, only online, listed under feature phones). Of course, it's not really in Verizon's best interest to promote this, considering they _want_ you to pay for a data plan.
So, this leaves me feeling very uncertain whether this "relaunch" of the KIN phones will ever catch on?
Also, is anyone else on the board interested in this phone still? I thought Kin threads were fairly active, but maybe it's just me?
Jon

jon2012 said:
It seems to me that the KINm phones (or atleast the TWOm) are the only product in a specific niche of the cell phone / smartphone market, namely they offer WiFi browsing w/o an expensive data plan.
I would suspect that there is a pretty big group of users who would want exactly that. But, they probably don't know the option exists, especially if Verizon doesn't really advertise this phone. (They don't even have it in Verizon stores that I have been to, only online, listed under feature phones). Of course, it's not really in Verizon's best interest to promote this, considering they _want_ you to pay for a data plan.
So, this leaves me feeling very uncertain whether this "relaunch" of the KIN phones will ever catch on?
Also, is anyone else on the board interested in this phone still? I thought Kin threads were fairly active, but maybe it's just me?
Jon
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree that if Verizon would advertise this phone it would possibly catch on. As for the Kin in Verizon stores, that's actually where I got mine and I've seen Verizon's reps trying to persuade people into getting the phone.

The phone seems to be getting pretty good reviews and response from buyers, but like you said Verizon is doing a poor job of promoting it.
And there are a handful of us both here and on Microsoft's forum site that have been trying many different approaches, but unforturnately none of us are experts in routing phones. A few us have bricked phones now, and we still haven't made to much progress, but still hoping someone can make progress.
This link rates the twom as the best messaging phone.

Kin TwoM= Win!
I am switching to the kin twom from a HTC Thunderbolt. I have a xoom as well, so I really don't need to keep paying for data on my handset. I have had several android phones, and for that matter several winmo phones in the past. I am excited about this because this really is a great phone for a "feature phone". No data, but having wifi is really sweet. I want to hack it and port android to it, which may not be possible, but either way, I think this really is a win, especially if you have a tablet.

Spectredroid said:
I am excited about this because this really is a great phone for a "feature phone". No data, but having wifi is really sweet. I want to hack it and port android to it, which may not be possible, but either way, I think this really is a win, especially if you have a tablet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that depends on the point of view. For me, even if i'm pretty naughty with it, it isn't a great phone, caused in most part by the software..
- Software lags a lot (should not for the "few" resources that we use).
More if you take in account that we are using a tegra device with a 0'6Ghz CPU. My crappy PDA with 203mhz can play Age of empires mobile without lagging, and this phone can't just run the menu smoothly (sometimes). I smell bad optimization...
- The browser support for rtsp is kinda lame (no flash support and just redirection to mobile sites to a streaming protocol). Browser in general is pure **add your favourite badword here**.
- The wifi detection is barely ok, but several times it can't find the ESSID even if it's near it (@ my home wifi router) and you have to turn on, turn off the wifi till it awakes.
- Suffers from random reboots (if some software freezes). Happens to me sometimes, even with the phone playing the "i'm like a brick" game alone over my desk.
- It's battery is fastly drained by the OS, cause you cant close apps, and they are surely running in the background, like other windows ce OS's. If you open your browser after rebooting, it's there forever. If i could add only 1 app to a kin in the wooorld, i would add a battery/app ultraconfigurator to reduce so.
- Sometimes it can't even load some apps and shows a "loading..." window till it's... well loaded.
.....
On the other hand, the screen is pretty well done, imo. It detected my touchs almost perfect, whenever i tried.
At least, they solved the old bug that the original kin two had, where you set a wifi and can't reenter wifi settings cause the os hanged doing so (one or several reboots needed).
It would be so cool if it was sold unlocked & without contract for 100$. Then use dataplan with the company you want, and with installable apps.

Can I get a backup that can restore my phone without resorting to rooting the phone?

Without root, can I make a backup, that will allow me to restore to a previous point in time? That means my apps and their data, and my customizations. That means NOT OTA to some pirate's server.
Thanks!

IT_Architect said:
Without root, can I make a backup, that will allow me to restore to a previous point in time? That means my apps and their data, and my customizations. That means NOT OTA to some pirate's server.
Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Without root, you can't backup system apps and data. You can backup user apps and data. In fact...Google will do it for you by having Google backup your app data (since Google Play already has the apps). Settings-General-Backup
Sent from my Note 3 via Tapatalk

donc113 said:
Without root, you can't backup system apps and data. You can backup user apps and data. In fact...Google will do it for you by having Google backup your app data (since Google Play already has the apps). Settings-General-Backup
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How do I determine exactly which are user apps and data, and which are system apps and data? I would envision:
1. I could restore any apps and data that didn't come with the phone.
2. Not restored would be shortcuts created, screen organization, customized wall papers, custom widgets, settings for WiFi, POP, IMAP, or Exchange E-Mail accounts, SMS/MMS messages, and any changes made in the phone's Settings from factory defaults.
I would also assume that programs such as Holo and Helium leverage the same underlying technology with the option of doing it locally.
Thanks!

IT_Architect said:
How do I determine exactly which are user apps and data, and which are system apps and data? I would envision:
1. I could restore any apps and data that didn't come with the phone.
2. Not restored would be shortcuts created, screen organization, customized wall papers, custom widgets, settings for WiFi, POP, IMAP, or Exchange E-Mail accounts, SMS/MMS messages, and any changes made in the phone's Settings from factory defaults.
I would also assume that programs such as Holo and Helium leverage the same underlying technology with the option of doing it locally.
Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Pretty much anything you can't uninstall is a system app.
To your 1 & 2 items above...yes to both.
No idea what Holo or Helium programs are.
Sent from my Note 3 via Tapatalk

So you actually have a valid reason not to root? You can install SS, do backups, etc. You can root cloak if you want. Odin back to stock if you need to.
Or you can use the slow, bloated, gimped, and otherwise poor excuse of a stock ROM for your DD. not sure why you would want that backed up anyway?

xdadevnube said:
So you actually have a valid reason not to root?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's a brand new phone under warranty, support when needed, automatic OTA updates...
xdadevnube said:
You can install SS, do backups, etc. You can root cloak if you want. Odin back to stock if you need to.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Which leaves the KNOX counter at 0x1. There is no exploit to use in KitKat like there was in Jelly Bean and prior.
xdadevnube said:
...bloated, gimped, and otherwise poor excuse of a stock ROM for your DD. not sure why you would want that backed up anyway?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm accustomed to being able to do a bare metal restore to a previous point in time with my current phone. It has worked several times when things went bad, and I could even restore to a new phone of the same model if that were necessary. I'm trying to duplicate that as much as possible of that with Android.
Situation: I've installed two products, one called Holo, previous named Carbon, and the other called Helium. With Holo, which runs on the PC, I just did a full backup via USB 3 to my laptop. It says it can do the system apps and data too, but doesn't recommend doing it, so I didn't. I then deleted the data and applications through Application Manager. After that, I did a full restore. The apps and data were exactly like they were. Helium I'm guessing uses the same API, but is installed on the phone, and backs up to the SD card. I don't have an SD card yet, and I didn't want to use the one that Android emulates when it doesn't have one, so I haven't tested that one yet. The advantage of Helium is it allows you to select what you want to backup and restore. It doesn't allow backing up any system apps or data.
I'm currently documenting the changes I make to settings while it is all fresh in my mind, so if I do have to do a factory reset later, I can get back to where I was as painlessly as possible. I will do a factory reset tonight to prove the backups work, before I rely on Holo's restores.
Other: I've used custom ROMs in the past. I always ended up returning to the factory ROM due to fewer bugs, and compatibility issues that I encountered when installing programs that needed something the developer removed. The reason rooting Android is tempting for me, is that I'm missing the basic functionality of being able to do call recording while I'm on Bluetooth. OTOH, I can understand why Samsung will not support a phone that has been rooted.
Thanks!

Im not sure why you say that the Knox counter will be tripped. I have had my phone rooted since almost the day I got it when it was on MJE, upgraded it to NC4 after root was available and even just odined it back to stock at the beginning of this week. Screen was cracked and I got a replacement. I had to return the old one and when it got dropped in the mail, it was no longer rooted, fully stock, and a Knox counter of 0x0. This replacement phone with Kit Kat (NC4) on it was rooted withing hours of receiving it, nandroid restored to the identical setup as the phone it was replacing, and the Knox counter is, you guessed it, 0x0.

mikeyk101 said:
Im not sure why you say that the Knox counter will be tripped. I have had my phone rooted since almost the day I got it when it was on MJE, upgraded it to NC4 after root was available and even just odined it back to stock at the beginning of this week. Screen was cracked and I got a replacement. I had to return the old one and when it got dropped in the mail, it was no longer rooted, fully stock, and a Knox counter of 0x0. This replacement phone with Kit Kat (NC4) on it was rooted withing hours of receiving it, nandroid restored to the identical setup as the phone it was replacing, and the Knox counter is, you guessed it, 0x0.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please tell me how to do that, or point to where I can learn how.

IT_Architect said:
Please tell me how to do that, or point to where I can learn how.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just did a chat with One Click Root, which went as follows:
ME: I just purchased a new Verizon Note 3 with the newest KitKat. I don't want to mess up the warranty or support. However, an unrooted phone cannot record calls under Bluetooth. I heard there was a problem with rooting phones with KitKat with files after some date in June. I also want to be able to unroot if necessary for update and warranty purposes. Can One Click Root accomplish these goals?
One Click Root: Warranty will be voided if you root your device and ota updates will remove the root totally. I don't actually know if warranty will be back if you unroot your device.
ME: What about KNOX?
One Click Root: Won't be affected.
ME: How much does One Click Root cost if I decide to do this?
One Click Root: We have 2 packages to choose from: $29.95 package which includes root only and $39.95 which includes rooting + removal of bloatware + 30 days free tech support.
ME: I'm guessing the $39.95 for the tech support would be worth it. The removal of bloatware might not since if I did, and unrooted it to get an OTA update, the update would fail if the bloatware were not there to be patched.
One Click Root:We need to check first if your device is rootable. May I know the exact model number and android version?
ME: OK, I'm going into settings now...
One Click Root: Great! Your device is rootable.
ME: You've helped me TONS! I will make sure I want to do this, but you can be sure here is will I come when I do. I need to learn a little more about rooting, unrooting, and being able to get it back to factory so I can get service if I need it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My question is how/where can I learn how to be able to achieve this?
mikeyk101 said:
...I have had my phone rooted since almost the day I got it when it was on MJE, upgraded it to NC4 after root was available and even just odined it back to stock at the beginning of this week. Screen was cracked and I got a replacement. I had to return the old one and when it got dropped in the mail, it was no longer rooted, fully stock, and a Knox counter of 0x0. This replacement phone with Kit Kat (NC4) on it was rooted withing hours of receiving it, nandroid restored to the identical setup as the phone it was replacing, and the Knox counter is, you guessed it, 0x0.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you!

Maybe Im missing what you are asking. There are several threads on here that detail what to do. To root, use towelroot and it will cost you nothing. Then you will have to install SuperSU but make sure to use 2.13 version. This will also give you the option to disable Knox. Then install busybox and finally you can install safestrap.

mikeyk101 said:
...To root, use towelroot and it will cost you nothing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Doesn't it make more sense to use "One Click Root" instead since it allows unrooting?
mikeyk101 said:
Then you will have to install SuperSU but make sure to use 2.13 version. This will also give you the option to disable Knox.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Will do
mikeyk101 said:
Then install busybox, and finally you can install safestrap.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Got it. I will look for more threads about this. Thanks TONS!

Supersu also allows you the option to do a full unroot as well.

mikeyk101 said:
Supersu also allows you the option to do a full unroot as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Got it!
Thanks!

xdadevnube said:
So you actually have a valid reason not to root? You can install SS, do backups, etc. You can root cloak if you want. Odin back to stock if you need to. Or you can use the slow, bloated, gimped, and otherwise poor excuse of a stock ROM for your DD. not sure why you would want that backed up anyway?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not there yet, but I'm drifting closer to your way of thinking. However, from what I read, custom ROMs have shorter battery life and S-Pen problems. I'm not after a hot rod. I'm after usable, as in not crippled.
I'd like to see a Windows 8.1 ROM for it like is on the Surface Pro 2. Android and IOS are just too limited.

IT_Architect said:
I'm not there yet, but I'm drifting closer to your way of thinking. However, from what I read, custom ROMs have shorter battery life and S-Pen problems. I'm not after a hot rod. I'm after usable, as in not crippled.
I'd like to see a Windows 8.1 ROM for it like is on the Surface Pro 2. Android and IOS are just too limited.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you want Windows....have your boss get you a Nokia. You will never see a Windows ROM on a Note.....talk about a bloated and crippled OS.
Sent from my Note 3 via Tapatalk

donc113 said:
If you want Windows....have your boss get you a Nokia. You will never see a Windows ROM on a Note.....talk about a bloated and crippled OS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think we have different expectation in how we want to use the phone. LOL!
I have been the CTO of two different tier-1 automotive suppliers, and now own my own IT company, so I am the boss. They haven't made Windows phones in a while. The last Windows phone was Windows Mobile, at which time they were big player. There isn't a trace of Windows in "Windows Phone #x". It's their old game console, with a phone added. Microsoft used the same game console operating system in the tablet market and failed miserably until they put Windows on it with the Surface Pro 2. It will be no different with phones.
With the power coming to p;hones and tablets, this year I got interested in settling on a device that the guys could carry off duty to do emergency tech support when we get a server alarm or frantic call while in the mall. We currently use laptops and Dell XPS 12 convertibles and Windows Mobile phones, which I even had myself until recently. PMing with a developer at XDA that I've worked with over the years, he also laments about the loss of Windows as the most productive and capable development environment, but things are what they are. The problem with the old phones was the small screen and slow data speeds make them something you only use in emergencies. The upside is they did in 2009 everything that the new phones aspire to. I have been attempting to duplicate their capabilities in either IOS or Android. Now that the Note series and Android have achieved parity in the handwriting recognition and speech to text, an HD screen, a usable RDP client, SFTP Terminal and file manager apps, it has shown itself to be usable for us in that role. I have no interest in root per se, in fact I'd rather not because playing with phones is not what we do. I'm simply attempting to fill in the few remaining usability shortfalls. The most major is call recording that works the same whether on or off Bluetooth. Another one we would like to have back is bare metal restores.
Thanks!

IT_Architect said:
I think we have different expectation in how we want to use the phone. LOL!
I have been the CTO of two different tier-1 automotive suppliers, and now own my own IT company, so I am the boss. They haven't made Windows phones in a while. The last Windows phone was Windows Mobile, at which time they were big player. There isn't a trace of Windows in "Windows Phone #x". It's their old game console, with a phone added. Microsoft used the same game console operating system in the tablet market and failed miserably until they put Windows on it with the Surface Pro 2. It will be no different with phones.
With the power coming to p;hones and tablets, this year I got interested in settling on a device that the guys could carry off duty to do emergency tech support when we get a server alarm or frantic call while in the mall. We currently use laptops and Dell XPS 12 convertibles and Windows Mobile phones, which I even had myself until recently. PMing with a developer at XDA that I've worked with over the years, he also laments about the loss of Windows as the most productive and capable development environment, but things are what they are. The problem with the old phones was the small screen and slow data speeds make them something you only use in emergencies. The upside is they did in 2009 everything that the new phones aspire to. I have been attempting to duplicate their capabilities in either IOS or Android. Now that the Note series and Android have achieved parity in the handwriting recognition and speech to text, an HD screen, a usable RDP client, SFTP Terminal and file manager apps, it has shown itself to be usable for us in that role. I have no interest in root per se, in fact I'd rather not because playing with phones is not what we do. I'm simply attempting to fill in the few remaining usability shortfalls. The most major is call recording that works the same whether on or off Bluetooth. Another one we would like to have back is bare metal restores.
Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hummm.....haven't made a Windows Phone in years? I suggest you look at this site:
http://www.windowsphone.com/en-us
You wanna do "bare metal" recoveries? Just root and it's a piece of cake.
Oh...my background? I did some programming in this new fun language called BASIC in 1963, then moved on to FORTRAN in '68. Switched carreers in '70 so didn't get back to programming until early 80s and that was pure assembly language. Then C and then converting COBOL to SQL.
I had more fun with hardware so became a UNIX System Administrator and Oracle DBA in the mid 80s.
Retired in late 90's from my government job and worked for 14 years as a UNIX SA, Sybase DBA and Window's Administrator for British Telecom here in the US in the VideoConferencing nitch.
So I kind of have a computing background and in my experience, most CTO's come from the sales and marketing side of the business, not the technical side.
Obviously I have no idea if any of the above applies to you.
Sent from my Note 3 via Tapatalk

IT_Architect said:
I think we have different expectation in how we want to use the phone. LOL!
I have been the CTO of two different tier-1 automotive suppliers, and now own my own IT company, so I am the boss. They haven't made Windows phones in a while. The last Windows phone was Windows Mobile, at which time they were big player. There isn't a trace of Windows in "Windows Phone #x". It's their old game console, with a phone added. Microsoft used the same game console operating system in the tablet market and failed miserably until they put Windows on it with the Surface Pro 2. It will be no different with phones.
With the power coming to p;hones and tablets, this year I got interested in settling on a device that the guys could carry off duty to do emergency tech support when we get a server alarm or frantic call while in the mall. We currently use laptops and Dell XPS 12 convertibles and Windows Mobile phones, which I even had myself until recently. PMing with a developer at XDA that I've worked with over the years, he also laments about the loss of Windows as the most productive and capable development environment, but things are what they are. The problem with the old phones was the small screen and slow data speeds make them something you only use in emergencies. The upside is they did in 2009 everything that the new phones aspire to. I have been attempting to duplicate their capabilities in either IOS or Android. Now that the Note series and Android have achieved parity in the handwriting recognition and speech to text, an HD screen, a usable RDP client, SFTP Terminal and file manager apps, it has shown itself to be usable for us in that role. I have no interest in root per se, in fact I'd rather not because playing with phones is not what we do. I'm simply attempting to fill in the few remaining usability shortfalls. The most major is call recording that works the same whether on or off Bluetooth. Another one we would like to have back is bare metal restores.
Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can root and install safestrap and still retain your normal functionality. Only adding the options to backup and restore. I would root/install busybox/ install safestrap and wipe and flash the stock deodex version. Beans has a nice clean nc4 base posted. Before you end up with to much on your phone that you dont want to wipe it. You will also want to odin the nc2 kernel before booting up your custom setup for the first time. I can assure using the listed setup will keep superb battery life and all stock functions and features.

donc113 said:
...most CTO's come from the sales and marketing side of the business, not the technical side.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've never heard of one that was in a Tier-1 Automotive supplier. BTW, I was also a CIO. Basically, when you are CIO, you are responsible for the direction and implementation of the corporate information structure. You do that after working with department heads and watching the department functions. You discuss your thoughts and direction with the CTO and flesh out the details. As CIO, you then budget the project. You keep the CFO in the loop on requirements, and for optimizations, you work with him to get him on board. During the board meetings, we hammered out the whens because it may be something not IT related makes the most sense to do first. Everyone also scrutinizes your plan and offer suggestions. The marketing side in a Tier-1 Automotive supplier is the sales team and/or organization, who work closely with the Engineering department for costs and timing. It really helps to be technical before you become a CIO.
Social life in high school for me was studying solid state electronics. In college studied automotive technology, and I designed an electronic ignition system for one teacher, and helped another who was writing a book to come up with the formula for calculating ratios for a compound planetary gear set. Prior to my CTO work, I also was military, but full-time guard, aircraft mechanic supervisor, then I bought a plane and learned to fly, then a military academy on an age waiver, then Signal Officer, which means wired and tower communications and COMSEC, then a command, then flight school on an age waiver, then served my commitment flying for the guard. Thus, in civilian life, they threw developing a Tool and Die CNC department, then sent me to their production plant to write an fully integrated ERP package. I used Faircom's C-Tree that time around, and wrote my own translator to use CB86 syntax. I also designed and built the electronic circuits for automation and was farmed out by them to, of all places, a large food distributor who needed a system to monitor their temperatures and gas on weekends so they didn't come back on Monday with thousands in loss. (Who was a friend of the owner) I started an Industrial Design company, only two of us, and did that for two years, but made a lot of money. Someone then made us an offer we couldn't refuse. One of the employees of one automotive supplier became part owner in another, that was in trouble from an IT standpoint and GM expectations, learned I was free, and they started taking me to lunch. I also authored a full ERP system for them, and we went from the cut list to the top 3% GM supplier rating. It was there I was featured in two national publications, one you may remember since you go back that far, was Application Development Trends. This was built on a DBMS. I publicly challenged Oracle at a developer conference on their query optimizer, and they could not deliver.
I enjoyed being high energy, but one day one a friend there said to me, "I have no idea why you do what you do. I would never do what you do even if I could." He got me thinking. I had lots of vacation time, but no time to take them. I wasn't sure of the ages of my kids or their birthdays. After a few months of thinking about it, I told them I was resigning to start my own business, and that I would give them 2 months before leaving. As the time approached, they said they wanted me to do a project, and if I finished it withing 5 months, they would pay me a sizable bonus, and pay me after I left for another 6 months to help start my new business. The CFO didn't think it was possible to get done in that time, and I wasn't too sure either, but I took the gamble. When they wanted to carve a week out of my time for another project, I then told them that they then also need to tack on a week to the 5 months, which they did. I was completely oblivious at the time how important my stipulation would be. It was implemented and in place, and working with only with just under 2 days to spare because I had to cancel 2 roll outs on other weekends for issues. (Shutting down GM can cost you your business) When I was about to get out, I had a daughter wise beyond her years show me her research about home schooling, and said she did that because she noticed how much more enjoyable it was to be around home school kids. I was concerned about socialization, but she did her homework, and in this area, they have a school, gym, and teachers for classes you can't do at home. There was far more socialization, and the kids were totally transformed in 6 months to being nice, with brothers and sisters tripping over themselves to help each other and others. In basketball, they mopped the Class A teams in our area, and finished 3rd Class D in the nation. They started college at 17, and Magna Cum Laude. I've been on my own for several years now. Well, they are gown up. It's easier to build and run a company than what I was doing. I have UNIX servers and one site that does 5 1/2 million unique visitors a month, so this may sound crazy, but I miss the board room and the pressures...and my dad tells me I am crazy to miss it. LOL! I think what I miss most is working with lots of people and lots of critical problems to solve. I also had fun as a speaker at quarterly meetings. While not every move I've made has been a good one, you don't know what works until you try. We seem to have a lot in common, and both like to learn. The chemistry, electronics, math, and physics has been fun to learn, but oddly, the most fun is working with people on projects, at the gym, or running. You may have some time over me, but I haven't been sitting still either.
Lest anyone believe that I had much of a hand in any of this, I will dispel that right now. There are heal marks from being dragged every place I've been. I bought a plane and learned to fly because when flying with them as a crew I would be sick for two days. One day a pilot took me aside and told me that he used to be just like me, and it took learning to fly to get over it. I went to a military academy because people encouraged me to, and that I needed to to achieve my potential. You can't name one thing in my life that didn't go similarly, and all of this happened from the Lord dragging me to through this to prove to me that through trust in Him, all things are possible. All I can say is it worked. An there is a huge thanks on my part to the people who spent time with me to give that opportunity, and I'm far from some religious or pious guy.
donc113 said:
There isn't a trace of Windows in "Windows Phone #x". It's their old game console, with a phone added. Microsoft used the same game console operating system in the tablet market and failed miserably until they put Windows on it with the Surface Pro 2. It will be no different with phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you do a little research, you will see what happened there. You can also research and find that killing Windows Mobile was Steve Balmer's greatest regret. In his words, I put Microsoft way behind in this area. There are different kinds of users. Steve saw the boom in the gamey non-technical side, but he didn't have that market. He came late to the party using the gaming platform, but in doing so he lost his mobile business market and developers. Their developers were faced with one of two options, the closed platform of IOS and being Apple's slave, or the open Android market and fierce competition. The new Windows Phone couldn't even connect to Microsoft's own products, while the iPhone/IOS/BSD could. Things are better now, but until Microsoft comes back to the market with a real Windows phone to tie the Enterprise, desktop, and cloud back together, Google will be the Microsoft of mobile devices, and Apple will be happy with their high-end 15%.
donc113 said:
I had more fun with hardware...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And you AND I know darn well I shouldn't be playing with phones, but I have the same illness. Currently, we can wear our noise-cancelling Bluetooth and record conversations with customers. It's our note taker and we send them to each other to pick up on. It's a money saver when you confront someone with what they asked someone to do. Now add to that no backups after you get the phone all set the way you want it? I have NovaLauncher not because I don't like Touchwiz, it's because I can restore the setup without rooting, and Helium or Holo can do the non-embedded stuff, but the Bluetooth thing leaves me seething. As far as rooting goes, yes, that can be done, and it complicates things when one needs service. It just rubs me the wrong way when a phone built in 2009, using technology from 2002 (XP), can do what an Android phone from 2013 prevents me from doing without risking and hacking. With WinMo, when you did a factory reset, you actually got a factory reset. It erased everything on the phone, and copied back the factory operating system. I like to put things in place that are a thing of beauty, and get it behind me.
Of course what I really came here for, I don't have an answer for. LOL! How little can I get away with, when rooting a phone? Why do I want Safestrap when I don't want a custom ROM? Isn't just rooting, SuperSU, and Xpose all I want? This is new ground for me.

PS: I'm looking at the best way to root on another thread without messing up the warranty.

Concerns for Security? (no, not the lockscreen video)

Hi,
I am currently testing a few dual-sim phones for use by a few people within my company. We purchased one Note 9, a few S9s and a OnePlun 6T (it's like Christmas early at my work).
First discovery was that "new, factory unlocked dual-sim" on Amazon doesn't always mean that. Since dual/sim phones aren't sold directly by Samsung, we had to buy them on Amazon and at the very least, one of the S9s was not new. It had a specific knox setting for a bank in south america so that did not come from the factory. So not having a trusted source for dual-sim Samsung is not something I like.
I then purchased a 6T directly from OnePlus and this one is clearly straight from the manufacturer. I'm happy with that and with the fast updates, but now that two phone manufacturers are making the news for security reasons, it doesn't make me confident that OnePlus doesn't gather data without users knowing. Huawei and ZTE are being boycotted left and right for security purposes, companies are shifting towards what I think in an illusion of safety by focusing on products made in the US (doesn't mean chips aren't made in China).
So for my own curiosity, are there people out there concerned by the fact that OnePlus phones are made in China and that as of right now, two electronics manufacturers are involved in security concerns?

Everyone is spying on everyone : Rule #1 , destroy one country's economy by hitting it's strongest companies : Rule # 2
Now all depends what kind of security you are looking for. Samsung has made an "enterprise edition" of the Note9. with
Huawei has very slow updates and being in the US (i guess you are based there) forget about it. This for obvious guarantees, etc...
OnePlus is a great company, it had it's issues in the press oneplus-phones-collecting-sensitive-data But i think this was dealt with.
now depends in what business you are in, and how sensitive your information is.
I hate to say this, but Apple does offer good security (apparently) and now you can order dual SIM cards, or even use e-sim + nano SIM.
Now if someone REALLY wants to know things about you, they will find out. Thus the famous "I gOt nOtHinG tO HiDe".

Everyone is logging data they shouldn't and without consent I'm sure OnePlus is still doing it even if you select disagree, Google is the worst offender all of their services log everything best way to avoid is to run AOSP and FOSS apps avoid stock roms and Google services if you value privacy.

Nic2112 said:
Hi,
I am currently testing a few dual-sim phones for use by a few people within my company. We purchased one Note 9, a few S9s and a OnePlun 6T (it's like Christmas early at my work).
First discovery was that "new, factory unlocked dual-sim" on Amazon doesn't always mean that. Since dual/sim phones aren't sold directly by Samsung, we had to buy them on Amazon and at the very least, one of the S9s was not new. It had a specific knox setting for a bank in south america so that did not come from the factory. So not having a trusted source for dual-sim Samsung is not something I like.
I then purchased a 6T directly from OnePlus and this one is clearly straight from the manufacturer. I'm happy with that and with the fast updates, but now that two phone manufacturers are making the news for security reasons, it doesn't make me confident that OnePlus doesn't gather data without users knowing. Huawei and ZTE are being boycotted left and right for security purposes, companies are shifting towards what I think in an illusion of safety by focusing on products made in the US (doesn't mean chips aren't made in China).
So for my own curiosity, are there people out there concerned by the fact that OnePlus phones are made in China and that as of right now, two electronics manufacturers are involved in security concerns?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Turn off all feedback to OnePlus and the phone does not make any pings to strange servers.
I have my phone rooted and have installed apps that log access to ip addresses. I haven't see anything strange in a month.
I'm not concerned and turned logging off.

tech_head said:
and have installed apps that log access to ip addresses.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm listening...

I don't buy any devices that can't run Lineage. You can remove the logging programs entirely if you are worried about them still reporting back to OnePlus after opting out. I removed a long list of things, and my phone still works. The couple Huawei devices I've had, and actually are still in the house, run Lineage, so not really worried about them either.
I only buy devices that can be unlocked, and with the intent of running Lineage on them, so I don't really care what software comes on them. Heck my OP 5T sat new in the box until Lineage was released, I used my Nexus 5X while I waited.

Thanks for your feedback.
There's a huge push towards not using Huawei network equipment or not doing business with people who do so. I'm not worried about someone knowing too much about what I do with my phone because between Facebook and Google, anyone can buy that information. The security I'm more concerned about is information theft, leaking screenshots like OnePlus supposedly did at one point, text files filled with "key words" like another news story mentioned. We are even reconsidering laptops and putting a huge emphasis on computers not made in China. I'm guessing the political situation with the Huawei CEO isn't helping the situation either.

Nic2112 said:
The security I'm more concerned about is information theft, leaking screenshots like OnePlus supposedly did at one point, text files filled with "key words" like another news story mentioned.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You have a OnePlus device? Remove the offending programs if you insist on running OxygenOS? You can secure your own device. Don't like Google collecting information, you can go without Google if you really wanted too. I just see this whole thing as a none issue I guess?
Nic2112 said:
We are even reconsidering laptops and putting a huge emphasis on computers not made in China. I'm guessing the political situation with the Huawei CEO isn't helping the situation either.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Which leaves you with? What devices aren't made in China or made from components from China? I'm not sure any one device is more secure than another.
Anyone see this story:
Germany Refuses To Ban Huawei, Citing Lack of Real Evidence
This is why open source, and open devices are so important. We need things we can update, and things that can be audited. Some people may argue that makes them vulnerable but I disagree.

OhioYJ said:
Which leaves you with? What devices aren't made in China or made from components from China? I'm not sure any one device is more secure than another.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's also something I brought up, you can say Samsung phones don't say "Made in China" but it's highly likely that some components in there are which would have their own security flaws.

OhioYJ said:
You have a OnePlus device? Remove the offending programs if you insist on running OxygenOS? You can secure your own device. Don't like Google collecting information, you can go without Google if you really wanted too. I just see this whole thing as a none issue I guess?
Which leaves you with? What devices aren't made in China or made from components from China? I'm not sure any one device is more secure than another.
Anyone see this story:
Germany Refuses To Ban Huawei, Citing Lack of Real Evidence
This is why open source, and open devices are so important. We need things we can update, and things that can be audited. Some people may argue that makes them vulnerable but I disagree.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is exactly why I unlock my BL and root my phone.
Once that is done, I own it and can do what I want.

Does anyone here own a Samsung Galaxy Tab A (8.4) (SM-T307U)?

Seems like a simple enough question but I've been having a really difficult time trying to gain traction about information on this tablet or any tablet.

Yes. i've owned one since is was released last year but there is NOTHING on xda. Even though it's new and fairly speedy, no one has worked on an ROM for this. I wanted to unlock and root it so I can use it on another ISP/Mobile.

Gasaraki- said:
Yes. i've owned one since is was released last year but there is NOTHING on xda. Even though it's new and fairly speedy, no one has worked on an ROM for this. I wanted to unlock and root it so I can use it on another ISP/Mobile.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's very very frustrating, there seems to be very little support for it. Do you know if you can charge while having a thumb drive hooked up? Like OTG style? I have purchased 2 tablets so far and neither have this capabilities. I don't want to be purchasing a third with the same result

Gasaraki- said:
Yes. i've owned one since is was released last year but there is NOTHING on xda. Even though it's new and fairly speedy, no one has worked on an ROM for this. I wanted to unlock and root it so I can use it on another ISP/Mobile.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just ordered o e and it showed up today and it also does not charge while a thumb drive is hooked up. Have you found any information or help on this product anywhere. Do you know of any other forums where people actually answer problems? I am so impossibly frustrated

Gasaraki- said:
Yes. i've owned one since is was released last year but there is NOTHING on xda. Even though it's new and fairly speedy, no one has worked on an ROM for this. I wanted to unlock and root it so I can use it on another ISP/Mobile.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No need to root to switch to another isp. get unlock code from current isp, install odin 3.14.1 and install any isp firmware you want from https://galaxyfirmware.com/model/SM-T307U/ I had an at&t branded with android9, and now i am running wind/freedom android11 firmware.

bbortnick said:
No need to root to switch to another isp. get unlock code from current isp, install odin 3.14.1 and install any isp firmware you want from https://galaxyfirmware.com/model/SM-T307U/ I had an at&t branded with android9, and now i am running wind/freedom android11 firmware.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi, thnx for the useful info. Did you have trouble getting the unlock code from at&t? Where did you enter that code? A specific app on the at&t rom I'm guessing?
Getting a sprint version of this device, but want to use it t-mobile. Have read that just factory reset device and use odin to flash other firmware would work, does that sound feasible to you? I'm kind of doubting that but have no idea really.
It used to be flashing diff rom would sim unlock, but not anymore I don't think.
thnx for taking the time, so little info for this available.
cheers

No problem with at&t, although i had to impersonate a US location. Start here: https://www.att.com/deviceunlock/unlockstep1
Like I said, vendor unlock, install odin on your pc, use odin to install the desired firmware you downloaded.
The firmware should boot up, but maybe the radio bands are different between the two isp's? and therefore the LTE part of the tablet may not work. i don't care since I don't install a sim card, just use it on wifi.

Thanks a lot for the info guys. For anyone else reading, I used 'T307UVLS6CUH1' (BMC) - and it is unbranded and doesn't have a ton of bloatware.
Also, since there are so few users on this thing, will also drop that I made a stand for it here:
Galaxy Tab A Stand by xnappo
This is a horizontal stand for the Samsung Galaxy Tab A 8.4 (2020). Admittedly it is a bit specific because of the not-so-popular tablet and the use of a NetDot Gen10 magnetic USB cable. One could use this with USB-C directly - but I do really recommend that (likely stress on USB port). You...
www.thingiverse.com
xnappo

Hello,
I got unlocked ATT SM-T307UZNAATT from eBay.
My provider is Red Pocket, and I have ATT-compatible SIM.
When I try to place a call - ATT window appears and askes to log in to ATT account or create one.
How could I place calls?
Would appreciate any help!

xnappo said:
Thanks a lot for the info guys. For anyone else reading, I used 'T307UVLS6CUH1' (BMC) - and it is unbranded and doesn't have a ton of bloatware.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How is the speed/lag? This tablet is mega slow, but I was wondering if I loaded different firmware (currently on AT&T) that it might help, since it can't be rooted.
My 8-yr old rooted Galaxy Tab S 8.4 is better than this thing, but alas a few apps won't run on 32-bit architecture. I think I will relegate this AT&T "brick" to my exercise bike for an entertainment interface.

kodiak799 said:
How is the speed/lag? This tablet is mega slow, but I was wondering if I loaded different firmware (currently on AT&T) that it might help, since it can't be rooted.
My 8-yr old rooted Galaxy Tab S 8.4 is better than this thing, but alas a few apps won't run on 32-bit architecture. I think I will relegate this AT&T "brick" to my exercise bike for an entertainment interface.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Meh - no better. It is pretty ridiculous - I was very happy with my 2015 Galaxy Tab S2 8.0 - but it started crashing all the time. This one is slower, thicker, lower resolution, and heavier! 32 GB really isn't enough storage either.
It is super annoying there are not any good 8 inch Android tablets. The Huawei M6 8.4 looks okay, but being in the US it is a bit of a pain to get.

xnappo said:
Meh - no better. It is pretty ridiculous - I was very happy with my 2015 Galaxy Tab S2 8.0 - but it started crashing all the time. This one is slower, thicker, lower resolution, and heavier! 32 GB really isn't enough storage either.
It is super annoying there are not any good 8 inch Android tablets. The Huawei M6 8.4 looks okay, but being in the US it is a bit of a pain to get.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The only great 8" tablet is the Lenovo Legion Y700, running SD870 with 12gb ram. 2560x1600, but IPS and not OLED.
I own the Tab S 8.4 (2014), the Tab A 8.4 (2020) and the Y700 (2021, 8.8").
Tab A is terrible.
It's painfully slow.
It needs root.
It has the same RAM as a tablet 6 YEARS older than it, with LOWER resolution and ! much worse performance. I wish it could be fixed.... Android 10 Lineage is out for Tab S 8.4.

kodiak799 said:
How is the speed/lag? This tablet is mega slow, but I was wondering if I loaded different firmware (currently on AT&T) that it might help, since it can't be rooted.
My 8-yr old rooted Galaxy Tab S 8.4 is better than this thing, but alas a few apps won't run on 32-bit architecture. I think I will relegate this AT&T "brick" to my exercise bike for an entertainment interface.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have done quite a few mods/tweaks to system/Global/Secure settings and also disabled Gaming Optimization Service (GOS) via Alliance Sheild X, it has made a MASSIVE difference. This device's (SM-T307U) performance is being HEAVILY limited by software-based restrictions. Most of which can be disabled without root. I can go into more detail as to how ive sped up this device if anyone is interested.
NOTE - If someone has the ATT version and can drop the .IMG or Firmware .zip that'd be awesome.
Ill keep trying to find a way to root this device until i get a new one, if anyone else has any success, DM me.

K0mraid3 said:
I have done quite a few mods/tweaks to system/Global/Secure settings and also disabled Gaming Optimization Service (GOS) via Alliance Sheild X
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've already deleted, turned-off and disabled everything I can. It's a good bit snappier, but still a dog.
I actually have 2, so I may play around with deleting/disabling apps via ADB. But it's not battery drain, which with some securetask special permissions I've gotten it to SIP power while the screen is off (varies, as low as 2% per day up to about 6-7%).
I checked the usual sources and couldn't find any AT&T image files.

kodiak799 said:
I've already deleted, turned-off and disabled everything I can. It's a good bit snappier, but still a dog.
I actually have 2, so I may play around with deleting/disabling apps via ADB. But it's not battery drain, which with some securetask special permissions I've gotten it to SIP power while the screen is off (varies, as low as 2% per day up to about 6-7%).
I checked the usual sources and couldn't find any AT&T image files.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah this this is good on power, it is just severely limited. Judging from similar devices with the same exynos processor, there's got to be something holding it back. I again recommend using SetEdit or something similar to modify some params in the settings tables. The line I highlighted is in both this tablet and my Galaxy S22 & S21. I also found a param in there called "Enhanced CPU responsiveness" which was set to off, after turning that on, I noticed a massive gain in my tablet.
Also worth noting is I added the line "Allow_more_heat_value" with a value of "30" and it allows all cores to boot to max.

K0mraid3 said:
I again recommend using SetEdit or something similar to modify some params in the settings tables.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'll have to give this a shot. I wouldn't think AT&T throttled the CPU, which means Sammie did it for some reason. Probably to hit some sort of battery life benchmark. Or maybe it caused instability in some devices. But being a mid-tier processor you wouldn't expect that it needed to be throttled.
I believe Sammie is giving up on the Exynos processors. I bet they had issues on this tablet, said "screw it" and just **** this out with a throttled cpu.

kodiak799 said:
I'll have to give this a shot. I wouldn't think AT&T throttled the CPU, which means Sammie did it for some reason. Probably to hit some sort of battery life benchmark. Or maybe it caused instability in some devices. But being a mid-tier processor you wouldn't expect that it needed to be throttled.
I believe Sammie is giving up on the Exynos processors. I bet they had issues on this tablet, said "screw it" and just **** this out with a throttled cpu.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's 100% a Samsung related throttle. From my understanding, it's done because they use many of the same parts/processors in various devices, so as a way to control device specific performances, they set limitations. For example, this tablet has the same processor as some of their other "Higher-end" models (if I'm not mistaken), so to keep this tablet from outperforming the others, it's limited. I'm sure there are other reasons, like the battery benchmark bit that you mentioned too.
But yeah. This is 100% a Samsung based throttling.

K0mraid3 said:
I have done quite a few mods/tweaks to system/Global/Secure settings and also disabled Gaming Optimization Service (GOS) via Alliance Sheild X, it has made a MASSIVE difference. This device's (SM-T307U) performance is being HEAVILY limited by software-based restrictions. Most of which can be disabled without root. I can go into more detail as to how ive sped up this device if anyone is interested.
NOTE - If someone has the ATT version and can drop the .IMG or Firmware .zip that'd be awesome.
Ill keep trying to find a way to root this device until i get a new one, if anyone else has any success, DM me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I’d be interested in how you tweaked this tablet to function better.

K0mraid3 said:
I have done quite a few mods/tweaks to system/Global/Secure settings and also disabled Gaming Optimization Service (GOS) via Alliance Sheild X, it has made a MASSIVE difference. This device's (SM-T307U) performance is being HEAVILY limited by software-based restrictions. Most of which can be disabled without root. I can go into more detail as to how ive sped up this device if anyone is interested.
NOTE - If someone has the ATT version and can drop the .IMG or Firmware .zip that'd be awesome.
Ill keep trying to find a way to root this device until i get a new one, if anyone else has any success, DM me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can you please share the mods/tweaks you've done?

I have one of these purely for its size, I travel over Europe and as the seating space is limited the smaller the better. I am running the Canadian Wind software but if anyone can give me a run through on disabling apps/services to speed up a bit that would be helpful.
I am going to buy the Lenovo Legion Y700 but only when a global version with LTE is available.
Cheers
Nick

Doing my first OS replacement or ROM replacement.

I am currently looking for an alternative OS or ROM on a phone. My big challenges are I have a great grand fathered in at&t data plan. I don't want to loose and There is no good phone that is both on their list and seems to give me the option to try different ROMS or OS's if one dose not fit my needs.
I truly believe if there is a place that linux could fit best it is on my private device. I don't mind windows for my Daily desktop but in the past few months I have watched the location data icon flash on the top of my phone despite having turned location data off. It would be nothing for google to truly allow us to make this choice on our own. An it always felt wrong to get a google phone hack it and then side load a ROM like copper or even lineage.
I haven't looked into Paranoid Android user yet. The real thing I keep bumping my head against is compatibility with AT&T so I guess I am here to ask the following questions.
If I do a custom OS like Post Market OS, Sailfish, even Ubuntu touch. Will some screw with my AT&T plan while others don't. Its not like I am going to tell them I switching the OS but I imagine there is something in there that allows them to throttle remotely and prevents tethering etc? perhaps one of the choices spoofs that. What is the best ROM/OS for this? Crapy call by the courts on that one BTW when that decision was handed down, and kudos to the absolute BOSS who went after AT&T. Funny thing is I am not even that big of a hot spot user. I have no problem with cafe wifi. It's not like I am doing banking there and I air gap that Laptop from my home wifi. The rare occasion that I have needed it was a recent business trip and even that wasn't allot of data. But I digress.
Second question I want to support the linux community that are building new OS's for existing devices as I think that is really the week point for adoption at this time. I have been thinking about it and I think the best way to do it would be to hire a new developer to give a hand to an existing project for a few weeks. Fresh eyes and all that. Any recommendations on how to select one?
It's not that there is anything wrong with ROM's but they all use AOSP and allot live hardware designed for there retail version android meaning they get at least a licensing fee for each one. I am big believer in actual capitalism in divers markets with real consumer choice. What we have today is not it and supporting the behemoths in any way isn't really the key to success. I could take you down the rabbit hole of how the problem is the government and things like the CIA investment corporation AKA In-Q-Tell. Picking winners and loser's and taking free market's to the wood shed and shooting it in the head. However I think that is enough and it gives my disposition. So, you might Have a good Idea on how to guide me.
Thanks for any help.

WoW no response at all. Did I post this in the wrong place maybe it should be someplace else.

As per the mod bump i guess