Database Users

[Q] Some Questions About Software Update

Hey everyone,
Just wanted to ask a quick question regarding the firmware
I got my UK unlocked S5 last week and as soon as I set it up, an update came through, which is 100mb, the note regarding say "Improved performance", the update download, but I haven't installed it yet. Mainly because of a bad experience I had after updating my S3. I haven't come across any bugs since I've been using it, and I'm concerned that if I update, the battery will drain quicker, or perhaps cause an error in the recovery mode(these things happened to my S3 after updating to 4.3). So 2 main questions.
1. Has anyone here downloaded this 100mb software update their S5? If so, what differences did you notice?
2. Suppose I updated and wasn't happy with the new changes? Would it be possible to go back to the original firmware version that my phone came with when I took it out of the box, *without rooting my S5?
Hope some people on here can shed some light on these questions.
Thank you in advance*

1. It's just a system update. The phone is new there are bound to be updates as issues are ironed out
2. You can odin any firmware whenever you want
Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

MasterfulNinja said:
Has anyone here downloaded this 100mb software update their S5? If so, what differences did you notice?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your instincts are dead on. Updates may fix bugs or add a desireable feature. But just as often they introduce new bugs, break root or disable root exploits, break a few apps and add noxious DRM frameworks like the Knox qfuse warranty bit. They can seriously mess up a custom ROM and may depreciate features like MSC or car dock that may be important to you personally.
Updates cannot always be reverted. Try downgrading your Kitkat baseband to Jellybean and see what happens. Or try removing the Knox security bit after you take the update that introduced it. I disable automatic updates and wait to hear what early adopters find before upgrading.
Unfortunately you didn't tell us the all important version of your update. Or even tell us what your current firmware version and carrier are. Your update might be similar to the recent ATT /Verizon OTA adding the mixed blessing of reactivation lock. That is causing bootloops for some people with custom kermels. 4.4.3 is mostly bug fixes, with a few UI tweaks. And I believe 4.4.4 took aim at closing yet another open-SSL exploit and reverting some of the new 4.4.3 bugs.
No matter what an update intends to do, a few new bugs and unexpected conflicts usually turn up. A quick Google finds reports like this:
International Business Times said:
Issues Spotted for the Android 4.4.3 Kitkat
The Android 4.4.3 Kitkat system update is pretty much all about improving performances, strengthening stability and fixing a couple of bugs. However, it reels in a couple of issues experienced by users of Nexus devices that have already been upgraded to the latest update.
According to IT Pro, some of these issues include wi-fi problems, crashes and reboots and bugs found in apps. Google has not yet given any statement about how to deal with these issues nor has there been any word if these issues are only experienced by a handful.
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fffft said:
Your instincts are dead on. Updates may fix bugs or add a desireable feature. But just as often they introduce new bugs, break root or disable root exploits, break a few apps and add noxious DRM frameworks like the Knox qfuse warranty bit. They can seriously mess up a custom ROM and may depreciate features like MSC or car dock that may be important to you personally.
Updates cannot always be reverted. Try downgrading your Kitkat baseband to Jellybean and see what happens. Or try removing the Knox security bit after you take the update that introduced it. I disable automatic updates and wait to hear what early adopters find before upgrading.
Unfortunately you didn't tell us the all important version of your update. Or even tell us what your current firmware version and carrier are. Your update might be similar to the recent ATT /Verizon OTA adding the mixed blessing of reactivation lock. That is causing bootloops for some people with custom kermels. 4.4.3 is mostly bug fixes, with a few UI tweaks. And I believe 4.4.4 took aim at closing yet another open-SSL exploit and reverting some of the new 4.4.3 bugs.
No matter what an update intends to do, a few new bugs and unexpected conflicts usually turn up. A quick Google finds reports like this:
.
.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you very much for your detailed answers! That's exactly it! And I know from experience that updating firmware can cause a negative affect to the phone's performance. My iPhone 4S is still on iOS 5.1 but runs perfectly, while friends who updated their 4S to 7.1 experience freezes and heavy lag. Maybe companies do this deliberately, so people get frustrated and end up having to get the latest, more powerful model so the OS to run smoothly?
I do exactly the same, I always wait to see what people about an update before updating. The only difficulty with Android updates is that there seem to be so many different versions of updates. For example, when I researched the 100mb one for the S5,* various sites mentioned it, but others say the size of the update was 30mb, which were called "improved performance" I also heard about updates not always being able to be reverted to the previous version,* and also about Knox. So, you can see why I'm hesitant to update.
I know quite a bit about using Android, but have very limited knowledge regarding rooting and custom roms and so on. Also, after reading that rooting a phone incorrectly can turn it into a brick, I'm happy to just leave it as it is. I've attached a photo which shows my current firmware version, as well as other information. Also, as my S5 is unlocked, the only updates I'll receive will be from Samsung. I asked my carrier (T-Mobile UK) and that's what they told me. Only phones from bought from them include added apps that they put on, and I think they may also be able to tweak the updates received, by adding their own features.
Some more questions for you;
1. Do you recommend a factory reset after each software update?(I had to factory reset my S3 to stop the battery draining issue that 4.3 caused. But was wondering if it's best to factory reset after each and every update on Android devices)
2. I know you said that sometimes reverting back to a previous firmware isn't always possible, but can't using Odin with the correct firmware version work? Like Goldie mentioned in the above reply. And does changing the firmware via Odin require rooting the phone?

MasterfulNinja said:
Thank you very much for your detailed answers! That's exactly it! And I know from experience that updating firmware can cause a negative affect to the phone's performance. My iPhone 4S is still on iOS 5.1 but runs perfectly, while friends who updated their 4S to 7.1 experience freezes and heavy lag. Maybe companies do this deliberately, so people get frustrated and end up having to get the latest, more powerful model so the OS to run smoothly?
I do exactly the same, I always wait to see what people about an update before updating. The only difficulty with Android updates is that there seem to be so many different versions of updates. For example, when I researched the 100mb one for the S5,* various sites mentioned it, but others say the size of the update was 30mb, which were called "improved performance" I also heard about updates not always being able to be reverted to the previous version,* and also about Knox. So, you can see why I'm hesitant to update.
I know quite a bit about using Android, but have very limited knowledge regarding rooting and custom roms and so on. Also, after reading that rooting a phone incorrectly can turn it into a brick, I'm happy to just leave it as it is. I've attached a photo which shows my current firmware version, as well as other information. Also, as my S5 is unlocked, the only updates I'll receive will be from Samsung. I asked my carrier (T-Mobile UK) and that's what they told me. Only phones from bought from them include added apps that they put on, and I think they may also be able to tweak the updates received, by adding their own features.
Some more questions for you;
1. Do you recommend a factory reset after each software update?(I had to factory reset my S3 to stop the battery draining issue that 4.3 caused. But was wondering if it's best to factory reset after each and every update on Android devices)
2. I know you said that sometimes reverting back to a previous firmware isn't always possible, but can't using Odin with the correct firmware version work? Like Goldie mentioned in the above reply. And does changing the firmware via Odin require rooting the phone?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. Yes, a data factory reset after a update/flash a rom is remmended and gives best performance and stability;
2. I haven`t tried flashing a older rom itself but it should be possible i guess as this is not dowgrading like from 4.4.2 to 4.3. You could try it and if it fails there`s no harm done as you can flash your current rom back.
3. Installing a update or flash a rom usualy will kill root, though superSU Pro offers a survival mode to keep root after a update. You can also flash a rom with Mobile Odin Pro and enable everroot and the 2 other options so you will not loose root.

@MasterfulNinja
I don't automatically accept updates. Someone more impulsive, or indifferent can be the guinea pig. That approach is effective in avoiding some unpleasant firmware surprises. Often an older firmware version runs smoother and is more stable as in your IOS 5 vs 7 example. Running an older firmware means that you may have unpatched security vulnerabilities but in practice this usually isn't a great or unmanageable problem. It is a point to keep in mind though.
Rooting isn't nearly as dangerous as many people think it is. Someone who can follow directions and avoid flashing firmware from a completely different device will rarely brick a phone. And even if you did, you can usually recover from the mishap. I mention this because one of the best ways to maintain a stable phone OS is to install a decent custom ROM (which typically requires root). And then most of the heavy lifting is done by the developer who has already removed bloat, restrictions and other objectionable pieces. And monitors and releases tailored and usually stable updates for those using his ROM.
Android updates vary in size because they are screened by carriers, each deciding what update components and /or custom bits goes into their version of the update. More restrictive Apple manages all IOS updates centrally from their California servers i.e. they don't relinquish direct control to carriers. Still it isn't hard to find articles giving a good summary of what issues android firmware updates are addressing.
Some people believe that you should accept every update and as soon as it becomes available. I don't see a compelling need to update unless you are trying to resolve a current bug or are enticed by a specific new feature. I don't recommend a factory reset after each update. I do recommend that you clear the system cache from recovery mode though. A factory reset usually won't benefit you but it is time consuming to reinstall and reconfigure your phone.
Having said that, if you have a specific issue, such as the 4.3 battery drain then you have a rationale for doing so. But I have to say that I experienced the same S3 issue and clearing the cache was sufficient to stabilize the phone for me. Some phones will develop corruption or configuration conflicts over time, especially if you install a lot of apps. Or if you have a specific app that makes a mess of your file system. With that in mind, I do do a factory reset about once a year to clean up the phone, the same as I would do for a laptop OS. But I don't see a reason to do it after every update.
Odin is a Samsung product, complete with DRM. So no, you cannot flash anything with Odin. You can flash most stock firmware and in particular Odin will look for OEM signatures if you try to change the bootloader or modem. In the case of downgrading, it is the Knox qfuse on your phone that will cause the Odin flash to fail. If you try to downgrade you end up with a partial flash which can soft brick your phone and trip the Knox flag.
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Confused Noob+H990DS - Unlock/Root+TWRP Official Custom ROM possible (W/ 2. Screen)?

hi folks!
I am pretty confused now. I am looking to get the V20 H990DS, but i am more confused now after reading here. My questions:
1. Is Bootloader unlock possible?
2. Can i install TWRP?
3. Can i root?
4. There is LOS official i know, but is the problem with 2. screen now fixed / going to be fixed?
Seems so good of a device, but i am insecure about it now after reading here. My old Mi4/Cancro is one of the best supported phones out there, so i dont expect it to be the same with V20, but i need working LOS with Root and working 2. screen (or the outlook on it working in the future) to be confident in buying it.
I hope you forgive me my nood questions,
Greetings

With sadly no replys, let me add what i know now:
1. + 2. + 3. Still no easy way in sight AFAIK. EDIT: To be clear: There IS a way, Dirty Santa, but the instructions are somewhat too complicated to be confident with trying. Have had rooted Phones with custom ROMs since over 5 years and never again a stock device, but i dont dare it. The 300€ i payed are much to much to have spend it on a bricked device. Will try to find more dirty Santa noob friendly explanations and post them here. EDIT2: For those who DO dare it, here the thread: https://forum.xda-developers.com/v20/development/dirtysanta-h990-t3624296
4. Second screen still a problem, nothing new heard for quite a long time.
Anyone with knowledge to add or correct, please help! Stock ROM is not as bad as i thought, but without Root, Android is not fully usable for me.

thank you pro for this thread
very useful for me.

Stele88 said:
With sadly no replys, let me add what i know now:
1. + 2. + 3. Still no easy way in sight AFAIK. EDIT: To be clear: There IS a way, Dirty Santa, but the instructions are somewhat too complicated to be confident with trying. Have had rooted Phones with custom ROMs since over 5 years and never again a stock device, but i dont dare it. The 300€ i payed are much to much to have spend it on a bricked device. Will try to find more dirty Santa noob friendly explanations and post them here. EDIT2: For those who DO dare it, here the thread: https://forum.xda-developers.com/v20/development/dirtysanta-h990-t3624296
4. Second screen still a problem, nothing new heard for quite a long time.
Anyone with knowledge to add or correct, please help! Stock ROM is not as bad as i thought, but without Root, Android is not fully usable for me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i dont get about your complain. you said already using phone with root for 5 years so i guess you've been here on xda for a while. if you really want a phone which support custom rom go with phone which support unlock bootloader like HTC, Oneplus, or even xiaomy. its not that hard finding them on XDA. 300euro for briked devices? well, if you read v20 section carefully you knew most people here bought this devices for the camera, audio, and other things like removable battery, etc. i never found someone who bricked their devices while rooting here, even if they do we already had flasher tools like LG up which already tested fully working by some members. and whats the problem with second screen? its working for whatever it made for. are you expecting to watch movie on those 2.1 inch display? i had lg v20 h990ds rooted with magisk and had no problem so far. bought some apps like grenify and titanium backup for debloated and my phone rocking solid for abouth 2 month. if you cant wait for LOS just bought lenovo zuk2 or oneplus 3t on the same price range.

No problem doing 1+2+3 with DirtySanta exploit/procedure. It's not as complicated or dangerous as it might seem from the instructions. I thought I had soft-bricked my phone twice after rebooting normally with the old kernel instead of straight to TWRP to update the kernel first, but it was easy to re-flash the 10d factory firmware file I had and start over again without any issues both times.
Basic summary of procedure:
1. Flash factory firmware version earlier than 31 December 2016 (only needed if installed firmware version is after 1 January 2017).
2. Do DirtySanta exploit to unlock bootloader and install TWRP and root.
3. Use kdzwriter to update phone's system/modem/cust partitions to latest firmware version without overwriting unlocked bootloader/TWRP, reinstall root (SuperSU or Magisk) from TWRP.
4. Disable automatic OTA updates so that any future firmwares won't automatically install and overwrite bootloader/recovery and remove root and set ARB 1. If that ever happens then TWRP/root will probably be gone forever.

provided you follow the instructions carefully, it's safe to root with DirtySanta.

xoose said:
No problem doing 1+2+3 with DirtySanta exploit/procedure. It's not as complicated or dangerous as it might seem from the instructions. I thought I had soft-bricked my phone twice after rebooting normally with the old kernel instead of straight to TWRP to update the kernel first, but it was easy to re-flash the 10d factory firmware file I had and start over again without any issues both times.
Basic summary of procedure:
1. Flash factory firmware version earlier than 31 December 2016 (only needed if installed firmware version is after 1 January 2017).
2. Do DirtySanta exploit to unlock bootloader and install TWRP and root.
3. Use kdzwriter to update phone's system/modem/cust partitions to latest firmware version without overwriting unlocked bootloader/TWRP, reinstall root (SuperSU or Magisk) from TWRP.
4. Disable automatic OTA updates so that any future firmwares won't automatically install and overwrite bootloader/recovery and remove root and set ARB 1. If that ever happens then TWRP/root will probably be gone forever.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Using the steps on #3, would it be safe to say that we can update the device to oreo and still keep root?

nurse_chuck said:
Using the steps on #3, would it be safe to say that we can update the device to oreo and still keep root?
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Click to collapse
No, right now if you update you'll lose root as the engineering aboot isn't compatible with Oreo and you have possibly non working data, invalid sim issues etc
Sent from my LG-H910 using XDA Labs

cnjax said:
No, right now if you update you'll lose root as the engineering aboot isn't compatible with Oreo and you have possibly non working data, invalid sim issues etc
Sent from my LG-H910 using XDA Labs
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Too bad. Your earlier post actually got me excited. Hehe. Anyway, hopefully someones starts working on rooting the oreo firmware.

The short answer? @Stele88
Yes. To all of it.
The long answer starts with the Dirty Santa root process. Believe me, I was daunted by it as well, but as long as you follow it (or the noob version of the guide you can find by searching around the same section the original guide is in) and take your time, you'll be okay. It's what I did and I'm now where I am today.
I'll address a couple things since I have the same device as you. If you want to get your device working properly on LineageOS/ResurrectionRemix (LOS with more customisation) then it's a long process.
1. Start by following the bootloader unlock process for Dirty Santa. Depending on what firmware your device gets shipped with, you may need to downgrade to (in the case of the H990DS) the v10c firmware. Once done, then you can Dirty Santa the bootloader and get it unlocked.
2. Once that's done and you're rooted with the initial TWRP from the thread installed, you'll want to look into KDZWriter. It's a program by the same emdroidle who did the Dirty Santa process for us that allows you to update your STOCK system software to newer versions and keep root. You can use it for example with the H990DS firmware KDZ files and go from rooted 10c -> rooted 10f -> rooted 10xx -> etc. until you're on the latest available 7.0 KDZ for the H990DS. This will be the longest part of your process, but it ensures that everything is up to date before going to AOSP/Lineage/Resurrection, specifically the modem partition. I recommend using the TWN region of firmwares if you're just going to convert to a custom ROM anyway, but any region will work fine (the only real difference is that, for example, the Australia region of firmwares comes with more bloat than the TWN region).
2b. You can also use KDZWriter from an updated TWRP you can get in the thread by Phoenix591, his latest TWRP versions have KDZWriter built-in so you don't have to run it off the computer, you can do it all with the kdz files in recovery.
3. Yes, you can root using the Dirty Santa method on v10c kdz firmware. I recommend Magisk for root over SuperSU.
4. There's no official LineageOS that is as up to date as the unofficial ones, and there's no official ones with second screen enabled full stop. That being said, the unoffcial LineageOS 15.1 by x86cpu has been my rock solid daily driver for about 2 months now and I've never had any issues that stop me from using it. The same can be said for ResurrectionRemix 6.2 by Blaises. To use either of these, you will need the updated TWRP from Phoenix591.
4. Second-screen enabled builds of LineageOS and ResurrectionRemix do exist, and in this case ResurrectionRemix is (as of this post) more up-to-date than the LineageOS 15.1 second screen version. If you find yourself needing additional features that aren't in the stock kernels for those ROMs (such as KCAL configuration to help with burn in, among other things), then I maintain the second-screen version of the Gamma Kernel by Omar-Avelar. People are successfully using this with second-screen ROMs and have full functionality. You can purchase the app BoredSigns from the play-store to add additional functions to the second-screen.
As I said at the start, it is a long process, but a very worthwhile one. The jump from stock to custom-ROMs is absolutely incredible. Again, in short, yes. You can get everything you want.
Just do your searching around the forums for the processes I outlined above, ask any questions you have, pre-download your kdz firmwares from HERE and any software you need, and just take your time. It's maybe a couple hours to get setup with a rooted stock system that's up-to-date, and maybe another hour or so to go from stock to Lineage/Resurrection.
P.S: If all goes well with the Dirty Santa process, but you get screen distortion after rebooting when flashing the TWRP from Dirty Santa, just pull the battery instead of rebooting.
Good luck, good searching, and remember to not be afraid to ask questions in the relevant threads.
---------- Post added at 04:50 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:49 AM ----------
nurse_chuck said:
Too bad. Your earlier post actually got me excited. Hehe. Anyway, hopefully someones starts working on rooting the oreo firmware.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's highly doubtful this will happen, but one can hope. Right now the best way to get Oreo is through a custom ROM, purely because of how security is implemented by LG in the stock Oreo ROMs.

iDefalt said:
It's highly doubtful this will happen, but one can hope. Right now the best way to get Oreo is through a custom ROM, purely because of how security is implemented by LG in the stock Oreo ROMs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually it is possible runningnak3d has already said awhile ago he has a process to root stock oreo he's just not releasing it yet so LG can't patch it before the Oreo roll out is complete
Sent from my LG-H910 using XDA Labs

UK Fingerprint rom question

If i install the UK fingerprint version here . Will the update still come to my phone? I see they have new updates now and oreo 8 is coming. Will i be able to install those from within the device or will i run into issues?
Also are there any issues using the UK rom over the US rom?
Also are there any better ways to enable the fingerprint sensor without install the UK version?
Does it also void warranty?
Thanks!

I'm in the US & I installed the UK ROM you link to above. It works as advertised. I wondered about receiving the update as well and read through the entire thread. It says you will be able to receive updates and you won't void your warranty since you are flashing official firmware. Of course that is just a post on an internet forum and carries no weight. Other than the warranty does it really matter? You can always update using Flashtool.
Yesterday I updated to 8.0 following this thread https://forum.xda-developers.com/x-compact/how-to/stock-8-0-root-recovery-t3747479 and now I have 8.0, my bootloader is unlocked, I have root, adaway, my phone passes safetynet, and most importantly it still works..
There are some subtle differences between N & O that have made it worthwhile. Sorry I can't be of more help, I can only share my positive experience.

rjglenn said:
I'm in the US & I installed the UK ROM you link to above. It works as advertised. I wondered about receiving the update as well and read through the entire thread. It says you will be able to receive updates and you won't void your warranty since you are flashing official firmware. Of course that is just a post on an internet forum and carries no weight. Other than the warranty does it really matter? You can always update using Flashtool.
Yesterday I updated to 8.0 following this thread https://forum.xda-developers.com/x-compact/how-to/stock-8-0-root-recovery-t3747479 and now I have 8.0, my bootloader is unlocked, I have root, adaway, my phone passes safetynet, and most importantly it still works..
There are some subtle differences between N & O that have made it worthwhile. Sorry I can't be of more help, I can only share my positive experience.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if you unlocked your bootloader, while you might be if there is an update, you can't just download and apply it from phone. If you're only interested in major android upgrade, this won't be a problem as at most we probably will only got one more android major version update (or none, it will be close to two years after device release).
If you are interested on monthly security update though, this could be a pain to flash manually each month

So if i just install the UK via the xperia flash tool method here (https://forum.xda-developers.com/x-compact/how-to/fingerprint-reader-version-flash-t3470154) , will i get OTA updates for security patches? Or do i have to manually do it every time?

mystycs said:
So if i just install the UK via the xperia flash tool method here (https://forum.xda-developers.com/x-compact/how-to/fingerprint-reader-version-flash-t3470154) , will i get OTA updates for security patches? Or do i have to manually do it every time?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, you will receive updates as long as you do not tamper with the bootloader or recovery. If for some reason it doesn't work you can always use flashtool to apply an update. The convenience of the fingerprint reader working far outweighs the inconvenience of having to update a phone with a computer.

Either of these guides still work for installing TWRP on latest update?

I just got an S8, on Oreo, may security patch and before I try to install TWRP I want to make sure samsung didn't change anything important in their latest update that would cause issues (baseband version is CRE3)(I think that's right information)
Both guides are easy to follow, but I just want to make sure Samsung didn't change anything in their latest update that would cause me to brick my phone
This one seems most promising as it is titled post Oreo, but that was back in March when it was updated last
The other one, much bigger thread, but hasn't had any updates since August, but it is still kind of active
Thanks

Still on Build number: NPN25.137-33 (Brand New Handset) XT1687 - Need Advice

Greetings devs and members:
I have recently begun using a Moto G5 Plus (XT1687 - N. American SKU) that was never updated (due to being in a drawer someplace).
I know that many things have been unlocked and improved by the devs for this particular handset. My question is simply this:
How should I update it? Should I update it?
Should I go OTA (retus) (currently blocking), or should I bypass everything and go directly to Oreo (using the update file, after a factory reset and such)?
Or, hell should I stick with Nougat right now? It seems that lots of folks are having issues, and I just wanted a more informed opinion.
Thank you.

sinister008 said:
Greetings devs and members:
I have recently begun using a Moto G5 Plus (XT1687) that was never updated (due to being in a drawer someplace).
I know that many things have been unlocked and improved by the devs for this particular handset. My question is simply this:
How should I update it? Should I update it?
Should I go OTA (retus) (currently blocking), or should I bypass everything and go directly to Oreo (using the update file, after a factory reset and such)?
Or, hell should I stick with Nougat right now? It seems that lots of folks are having issues, and I just wanted a more informed opinion.
Thank you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To stay with Nougat is not a bad choice, it's a well working system.
If you want to get to Oreo just apply all the OTA updates until you're there. No need to do anything else if your device isn't rooted or the system has been tampered in any other way.
Both firmwares seem to work well.

If the phone is not rooted, then OTA updates are the easiest. Make sure the phone is fully charged or plug it in first. Go to about phone, go to check system updates, accept OTAs until it says up to date, which is likely be Oreo. If it stops at -18 the it may take a few days before the phone alters you to Oreo update.