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My Eris has been running very smoothly for several weeks with ELB 2.7 with JIT enabled and most of my apps relocated to the SD card. But a few days ago, I started experiencing crashes when waking up the phone or answering a call, and then last night I started getting FCs anytime I tried to launch an app located on the SD card.
The FAT partition works fine, and the EXT partition appears intact when I mount it, but nothing located there will launch.
I've resolved the issue (sort of) by reinstalling the apps I need on my phone, and switching off App2SD, but now I'm wondering what the next step should be. Does this indicate that my SD is dying, or should I try repartitioning the card -- either to eliminate the EXT partition entirely or to recreate it?
just try reformatting the card...if you start experiencing it again...then your card is most likely dying... sorry...
Even if you got your Eris on the first day it came out, your card shouldn't be close to "dying" yet. Maybe it was defective to begin with. I'd bet willing to be its not the card. I know a2sd is harder on it, but I just doubt it killed it already.
Copy your apps to PC, reformat SD Card, Copy apps back, and see what happens.
Please report back, I'd be interested to see what happened.
Apps2SD isn't recommended by a lot of the devs for a reason. It causes unnecessary wear on the SD card. SD cards have a limited life span of around 100k cycles. When you access a program on the SD card it doesn't just make 1 cycle (read/write), it makes many during the usage of the program. 100k for picture taking and other standard use is quite a bit, but when an app is accessing the SD card constantly while running 100k is reached very quickly.
I'm going to take a guess and say your card is dying for reasons stated above. Try reformatting as recommended, if that doesn't work, replace the card.
The only time this would be a concern is if you moved dalvik-cache to the SD card (as that is constantly updated). When you put an application on the SD card, the data related to the card is stored in /data/data, which is not moved to the SD card (this is why internal storage continues to decrease after you move apps and dalvik-cache to the SD card).
Also, it's 100,000 cycles per block of memory. Most SD cards have wear-leveling technology that helps with this issue, so it will take a while before the card becomes bad (if it is a good quality card).
I would say he has a failing card. It happens once in a while.
Unheard said:
Apps2SD isn't recommended by a lot of the devs for a reason. It causes unnecessary wear on the SD card. SD cards have a limited life span of around 100k cycles. When you access a program on the SD card it doesn't just make 1 cycle (read/write), it makes many during the usage of the program. 100k for picture taking and other standard use is quite a bit, but when an app is accessing the SD card constantly while running 100k is reached very quickly.
I'm going to take a guess and say your card is dying for reasons stated above. Try reformatting as recommended, if that doesn't work, replace the card.
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yeah u gotta be very careful with app2sd
I followed the advice of several people and repartitioned reformatted my sd card. I decided to go without app2sd for awhile so I just did a single fat partition. So far so good...everything is working again.
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I was wondering if anyone has done a test of a Focus with and without a memory card installed for speed. There are Youtube videos showing that the Focus will boot into games faster than the HD7. The thought seems to be that the HD7 is using SD cards and the Focus is using NAND memory.
If you install an SD card in the Focus does it slow down because it is now also using SD memory and that is now the bottleneck?
When I installed a class 6 16GB MicroSDHC, I did hard reset via the att website instructions, not the quick guide ones. It showed around 22.?GB of space. I got errors when trying to use Netflix, YouTube, and few other apps. When I powered off and back on my memory was wiped, and it showed around 15GB space. I din't have time to notice speed. As far as browsing the phone it didn't seem different with or with out memory.
If WP7 truly stripes the data between NAND and micro-SD, it should be faster with the card as long as the SD card is not twice as slow as NAND memory (assuming you use an 8GB card). Would like to hear the real life results though.
Hi All,
I was wondering if someone who has added an SD card to their Focus could comment on the performance of it with it in and with it out.
Maybe a video of before and after showing a game loading or just a general comment on what they've noticed?
Thanks very much and looking forward to your responses!
Jonno
I got my Focus yesterday. Played with it all afternoon and evening. I already had a 16GB Sandisk class 2 card which is listed as compatible, so I went ahead and installed it.
Set everything back up and played with it some more, plus this morning. I've noticed no slowdowns or lagginess of any kind. I've got 22GB free after the install. Also tried the tethering and it worked great.
FYI: I did order the 16GB Kingston class 4 card, but didn't want to wait for it. I'll put that one in my old phone.
Verdict: very happy!
Thanks very much!
I saw a video just now with someone who had added a SD card to their Focus and it still outperformed the HD7. BUT, it was relatively empty (< 2 GB of storage used) which means that it is possible that more of the data was on the NAND memory than on the SD Card.
It would be interesting to see someone install an app without the card in and run it to see how long it takes, then add a card and install the same app and time it, and then fill up the card with media and THEN install the app (once the storage is almost full) and then time it.
May take some time but should be worth it in the end .
I know the data is supposed to be spread across any of the storage facilities available but we're not sure how it is done (simply filling it up, striping the data).
Yes, that's video was unfair, need a full data card to test, waiting
Http://Ricky119.com
Jonno2343 said:
Hi All,
I was wondering if someone who has added an SD card to their Focus could comment on the performance of it with it in and with it out.
Maybe a video of before and after showing a game loading or just a general comment on what they've noticed?
Thanks very much and looking forward to your responses!
Jonno
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I ran for a week without an SD card and encountered many of the same issues reported (app hang/crash, marketplace lag/hang). I had to reboot a couple times my first week for one reason or another.
I've since added a class 2 sandisk 8gb and do not notice any difference, performance or otherwise. Incidently I have not had to reboot since I added memory. I have rebooted it once only verify the data was still there after reset.
Hope this helps,
I tested my coworker's Focus vs mine. He had a 16GB Sandisk class 2 card with >8gb of data. I had no card with ~7GB of data. I launched ilomilo on each phone about the same time. They finished pretty much at the same time.
I'll second the above, I've noticed no difference between having a card and not having a card except for the amount of storage available. I'm not saying there's no difference, I'm saying I've noticed no difference so I didn't bother measuring. Programs load and run at the same speed either way, media loads and plays at the same speed...no difference.
Guess I should add that mine is an 8GB Sandisk class 2 card. No problems whatsoever as far as speed, rebooting or anything else.
In my opinion, the best type of test would be a stock Focus vs a Focus with an added micro sd card with the phone+card loaded to the max with content.
I will test this and report back. I have a Focus stock and my wife has one with a 16GB Sandisk Class 2 card in it. I'll load it up and see if there is a difference over the weekend.
My Focus with no memory card has not crashed in the marketplace yet, my wife's does a lot...
Great, thanks very much!
Looking forward to the results.
This is really weird. My first test has one focus with a Class 2 Sandisk 16GB card but only 4.5 GB used total on the phone. The other Focus is stock with no card and about 4.5 GB used also.
Speed tests so far
Stock Focus -
- Marketplace and browsing the catalogs - much faster the first time I tested. after however it was mixed and occasionally the 16GB was quicker.
- People Hub - faster load and browsing.
- Bing Faster load just barely.
Focus+16GB - faster at loading Uverse and Netflix
- Loads Uverse faster
- Loads Netflix a second faster.
Both phones always get back to the main screen at the same speed, weird Also, occassionally the 16GB is slower, then the next test its faster.
I'll load up the card and report back.
The way you should test
Try this place the sd card in then add 9 gb of music and videos then install the program. I highly doubt the sd cards are causing program and marketplace crashes as I can get those to more noticably with wifi on. Also no one really knows what is running in the background. There is multitasking just not available to 3rd party apps so who knows if we are getting facebook syncs when things act weird. I would suggest not setting any accounts up and power off the phone then power it back on if you want a real comparison. The OS files would run from the NAND so dlls and other files that games and programs use should always run from the NAND but not the program it's self so loading the card with data that fills the nand then installing a program to the sd card would show if there are performance issues.
I've been very curious about this. I have a pny 8gb class 4 in mine. I've been paranoid about performance decreases, but i haven't seen any clear difference. But i would certainly appreciate a video or something confirming that there is no performance decrease, just to settle my paranoia.
When I first bought my Focus it was about a week before I actually installed a SD Card in it. Im using a 8gb Sandisk class 2 right now and have noticed NO difference in performance at all. Its still fast, smooth and runs beautifully. Ill be getting a 16gb Sandisk class 2 card very soon...I would assume that wont change things either....Seems Sandisk is the way to go if you wanna be safe...since Sandisk in used for phone memory by Samsung.
I have the Kingston 32GB card in... no issues what so ever and I have over 15GBs on the card to date. I took the chance and so far *KNOCK-ON-WOOD* nothing has come up
Should be getting a Sandisk 16GB Class 10 soon, will update.
Has anyone laid out the procedure for what to do with a new SD card and WP7 install? I've noticed many posts about it but no one saying exactly "this is what to do". I think this might be why there are so many posts about SD card failures. So if I have a new SD card and an HD2 and I want WP7, what do I do? Thanks ahead of time... Mod if there is an answer to this, I couldn't find it.
thuddome said:
Has anyone laid out the procedure for what to do with a new SD card and WP7 install? I've noticed many posts about it but no one saying exactly "this is what to do". I think this might be why there are so many posts about SD card failures. So if I have a new SD card and an HD2 and I want WP7, what do I do? Thanks ahead of time... Mod if there is an answer to this, I couldn't find it.
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Click to collapse
If you're just planning to run WP7 (so no fancy dualbooting with Android), there's not much to do, besides backing up anything on the card that you would like to keep. Your phone will create the necessary partitions and take care of the formatting on first boot, if I'm not mistaken.
Not really sure what you mean by "SD card failures". I don't recall reading any posts about that, unless you're referring to the random problems people are having with WP7 and some brands/types of SD cards (not really the result of any card failure).
aye what he said, if you have issues such as lag, wifi not working, random reboots etc then its an SD issue, that means you are out of luck with that current card, . Dont believe anyone when they tell you to buy a spacific card, there is no consistancy in the building of these things so where as you might have issues, someone else with the same card may be fine.i personally have had a wee bit of luck by filling my card with more music
the story is, i had no issues at all with my SD card, but one day after dumping some more music on i started getting reboot issues, took the music off and all was well, then i tried slapping more music on, about 200MB more, and that was it, all is ok again.
its a pure guess, well perhaps an educated guess, but i believe that for whatever reason WP7 had issues accessing a portion of my card, by filling it up some more it prevented WP7 from using it, and thus all is ok again, to be clear, the music played fine however!
dazza9075 said:
aye what he said, if you have issues such as lag, wifi not working, random reboots etc then its an SD issue, that means you are out of luck with that current card, . Dont believe anyone when they tell you to buy a spacific card, there is no consistancy in the building of these things so where as you might have issues, someone else with the same card may be fine.i personally have had a wee bit of luck by filling my card with more music
the story is, i had no issues at all with my SD card, but one day after dumping some more music on i started getting reboot issues, took the music off and all was well, then i tried slapping more music on, about 200MB more, and that was it, all is ok again.
its a pure guess, well perhaps an educated guess, but i believe that for whatever reason WP7 had issues accessing a portion of my card, by filling it up some more it prevented WP7 from using it, and thus all is ok again, to be clear, the music played fine however!
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Click to collapse
That's interesting because I have had the same experience. I have been playing around with multiple size cards and brands. I have yet to get one work right. I have also discovered how you format them makes a difference; for example I have a Patriot class 4 16GB card that using EASEUS to format (low level) it worked but had lag at certain times, for example when going through setup on a fresh install of WP7. It was at a dead crawl with the same config with Android. I then formatted it with Minitool and it was unusable (dead dead crawl) with either WP7 and Android. I also tested a Kingston class 4 32GB w/ wp7 and it was about the same as the Patriot w/ EASEUS formatting. No card I have found outperforms (in the phone) the Sandisk Class 2 16GB card that came with the phone. My suspicion is that the cards that came with the phones have had something done to the sectors by the phone manufacturers. I need to hear from someone who really knows the I/O and Cardbus architecture of phones. My point is there should be a way to get all cards working with any phone, might not be to specs of the card but between tweaking formatting and other hacks they all should work.
thuddome said:
That's interesting because I have had the same experience. I have been playing around with multiple size cards and brands. I have yet to get one work right. I have also discovered how you format them makes a difference; for example I have a Patriot class 4 16GB card that using EASEUS to format (low level) it worked but had lag at certain times, for example when going through setup on a fresh install of WP7. It was at a dead crawl with the same config with Android. I then formatted it with Minitool and it was unusable (dead dead crawl) with either WP7 and Android. I also tested a Kingston class 4 32GB w/ wp7 and it was about the same as the Patriot w/ EASEUS formatting. No card I have found outperforms (in the phone) the Sandisk Class 2 16GB card that came with the phone. My suspicion is that the cards that came with the phones have had something done to the sectors by the phone manufacturers. I need to hear from someone who really knows the I/O and Cardbus architecture of phones. My point is there should be a way to get all cards working with any phone, might not be to specs of the card but between tweaking formatting and other hacks they all should work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My phone came with a Sandisk 2GB card and WP7 has offered me a SD Card Failed message regardless of what technique I have used to Format it...
thuddome said:
That's interesting because I have had the same experience. I have been playing around with multiple size cards and brands. I have yet to get one work right. I have also discovered how you format them makes a difference; for example I have a Patriot class 4 16GB card that using EASEUS to format (low level) it worked but had lag at certain times, for example when going through setup on a fresh install of WP7. It was at a dead crawl with the same config with Android. I then formatted it with Minitool and it was unusable (dead dead crawl) with either WP7 and Android. I also tested a Kingston class 4 32GB w/ wp7 and it was about the same as the Patriot w/ EASEUS formatting. No card I have found outperforms (in the phone) the Sandisk Class 2 16GB card that came with the phone. My suspicion is that the cards that came with the phones have had something done to the sectors by the phone manufacturers. I need to hear from someone who really knows the I/O and Cardbus architecture of phones. My point is there should be a way to get all cards working with any phone, might not be to specs of the card but between tweaking formatting and other hacks they all should work.
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Click to collapse
Lower class sd-cards have way better random reads/write speeds. This means they are better for storing file-caches, system files, and other rather small/scatered files. A higher class card will have awesome read/write speeds, but they do sacrifice the random speeds (they will preemptively load huge chunks of the file they are writing/reading to/from. So, they will have an overhead when accessing a file, that will be attenuated only if the operations made with that file are long. If u wanna write/read a large chunk of small non-sequential file/s, a class 2 is awesome. Which means that these cards are adequate form OS being run from them. Of course, when syncing with zune, you WILL notice a very decreased speed (since the files are being passed sequencially), but the system per se will operate silky smooth.
Hope this helped. Kudos mate
ei05035 said:
Lower class sd-cards have way better random reads/write speeds. This means they are better for storing file-caches, system files, and other rather small/scatered files. A higher class card will have awesome read/write speeds, but they do sacrifice the random speeds (they will preemptively load huge chunks of the file they are writing/reading to/from. So, they will have an overhead when accessing a file, that will be attenuated only if the operations made with that file are long. If u wanna write/read a large chunk of small non-sequential file/s, a class 2 is awesome. Which means that these cards are adequate form OS being run from them. Of course, when syncing with zune, you WILL notice a very decreased speed (since the files are being passed sequencially), but the system per se will operate silky smooth.
Hope this helped. Kudos mate
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just about to write all of that myself but you beet me too it!
to add to that, no two cards are alike, make and model makes no difference hence my issue with the "working SD card" thread on here, there is no way to know other than trying it
My wee issue is possibly related to some dodgy parts within the card, it reports perfect but if internal components are not consistant it may explain my rather odd situation
dazza9075 said:
just about to write all of that myself but you beet me too it!
to add to that, no two cards are alike, make and model makes no difference hence my issue with the "working SD card" thread on here, there is no way to know other than trying it
My wee issue is possibly related to some dodgy parts within the card, it reports perfect but if internal components are not consistant it may explain my rather odd situation
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In your situation i'd risk say it might have occured some corruption when transfering those musics. At least, considering that all is well now. It is unlikely that a sector of your card is/was permanently damaged, as repeting the operation worked, aye? Also, since I don't know what the file system is used by WP7, I do not know what maintenance the file system requires (such as defragmentation and whatnot)
perhaps, but it is repeatable, if i remove 400MB of music from my device its fine, if then copy 200 on to the card it reboots randomly, if i then copy the additional 200 back to the card it works fine
Potentially your correct, it may be some sign of wear on the card, but either way the music plays fine, which possibly suggests the random access speeds issue again, if it is sub-par sectors on the card that may explain it
Anyone noticed the phone slowing down after inserting micro SD card? I had Transcend 300X 32GB and tried to format it as internal but the process was going on for about 30 minutes showing 20%, after that phone suddenly rebooted by itself leaving me with unusable micro SD card which none of my devices recognizes no more. I used the phone this morning without micro SD card and it was more "lively" and snappy. Later bought Transcend 300S Silver series declared to 95Mb /s reading speed as the Nokia itself recommends cards with reading speed above 80Mb/s for non laggy experience. But I can still see some lagging, while opening gallery, playing videos, etc. Anyone else has the same issue?
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Yes, having same issue. Having 16GB internal, its need of the day, so patient on slowing down.