Related
Ok, there is plenty of speculation on Android and can we run it on our HTC devices, etc. I have started this new thread dedicated to the MSM7K Kernel release, and what it will take to get this running on our phones.
I would like this thread to become a resource, rather than just general theorizing. For example: "I know we need driver X to run Y on HTC device Foo." What I am not looking for: "Android is so l33t, plez tell me how to run on my Zaurus kthx". The difference is that the first example is constructive, and adds to the discussion.
The signal to noise ratio on the Android gGroup is terrible, and mostly consists of wild theorizing, self-promotion, and arguing. I have a feeling it will improve, but for now I'd like to discuss this subject away from all the SuperKoolNewAndroidForum.com forums.
My Goals for this Thread:
Establish what is known to work, and what the kernel is sorely lacking.
a) I know we have booted Linux on HTC devices, has it been done on the most current devices? (please link to thread/proof)
b) What are the main major roadblocks preventing Linux from being run on more HTC devices? (Obscure hardware design, bricking phone)
Compile a list of needed and helpful software for loading Android: bootloaders, useful Linux tools, filesystem images
Provide continual updates with photos/logs as we (hopefully) make progress
My bet is that the current 'gPhone' in the videos is an HTC device not unlike yours or mine. [link to my blog] IMHO, the hype over 'When will the first gPhone be released' is irrelevant, as Google has been working closely with HTC and Qualcomm for a long time -- and the specs for Android are so low, Google clearly expects to be able to run Android on existing hardware, without needing new hardware technology.
Of course, the tools and software we need are all in existence already, someone at Google is doing a good job of keeping their mouth shut. Therefore this is not an impossible task, just difficult, but I know you xda-hackers like a challenge! So, Let's go!!
Charles
FYI: I am aware XDA was founded with the Xanadux project, so this should be the perfect place to hack us a gPhone. I've also browsed threads, read the Wiki, studied up on the Hermes Linux project -- but things seem to have died since Feb 07, I'm hoping this latest development with Android will spark interest again, and we will be able to run Linux on our current, most powerful devices. I could make educated guesses about the state of the Xanadux project, but I'd rather hear it from XDA devs themselves who are most familiar.
Reserved for knowledge & files
Ok, I'll start:
Android.com *Now redirects (finally) to OpenHandsetAlliance.com
Download Android SDK
Official Android Dev gGroup
Here's what I know:
Announcement of the Kernel on the ARM Linux Mailing List
GIT Repository
gGroup for MSM7K Kernel Issues
[credit to Brian Swetland, Linux Kernel Lead, Android Project]
gGroups thread: Compiling C Binaries for Android
Filesystem dump from Android running on SDK Emulator: gGroups thread discussion | Benno's blog post with files
reserved for Android installation instructions
[ reserved ] Hopefully we will get this far
polyrhythmic said:
I've also browsed threads, read the Wiki, studied up on the Hermes Linux project -- but things seem to have died since Feb 07
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you are interested in the facts, and not some google-related hype, please
check this one
http://www.handhelds.org/moin/moin.cgi/UniversalStatus
My Android News blog (now on Russian language)
English version cooming soon.
http://android.my1.ru
Now it is under construction
Much thanks cr2!
n00bs are everywhere I'm trying not to be one of them.
I have been doing a lot of reading, things have been quiet on the Kaiser front but that soon will change. I just read the #htc-linux logs from the past few days, see you there after work!
Charles
(sent from das Kaiser)
WoW!
Is this going to be like getting Linux OS on my Trinity? I like the browser but a lot of the apps in teh demo vid rely too much on 3G. Data rates in the UK are prohibitive at the moment so I stick with WIFI
welcome to join AndroidPort group
hello:
you are welcome to join the AndroidPort group, where the
idea is to make Linux and Android work on a real or virtual
hardware phone platform.
looks like you are quite advanced in this area. we would
welcome your presence and expert knowledge.
have a look at our website. you will find a lot of
information for this subject in 1 place.
AndroidPort
http://groups.google.com/group/androidport
Aaron
Cool initiative, will write about it in my next News collection.
polyrhythmic said:
Ok, there is plenty of speculation on Android and can we run it on our HTC devices, etc. I have started this new thread dedicated to the MSM7K Kernel release, and what it will take to get this running on our phones.
I would like this thread to become a resource, rather than just general theorizing. For example: "I know we need driver X to run Y on HTC device Foo." What I am not looking for: "Android is so l33t, plez tell me how to run on my Zaurus kthx". The difference is that the first example is constructive, and adds to the discussion.
The signal to noise ratio on the Android gGroup is terrible, and mostly consists of wild theorizing, self-promotion, and arguing. I have a feeling it will improve, but for now I'd like to discuss this subject away from all the SuperKoolNewAndroidForum.com forums.
My Goals for this Thread:
Establish what is known to work, and what the kernel is sorely lacking.
a) I know we have booted Linux on HTC devices, has it been done on the most current devices? (please link to thread/proof)
b) What are the main major roadblocks preventing Linux from being run on more HTC devices? (Obscure hardware design, bricking phone)
Compile a list of needed and helpful software for loading Android: bootloaders, useful Linux tools, filesystem images
Provide continual updates with photos/logs as we (hopefully) make progress
My bet is that the current 'gPhone' in the videos is an HTC device not unlike yours or mine. [link to my blog] IMHO, the hype over 'When will the first gPhone be released' is irrelevant, as Google has been working closely with HTC and Qualcomm for a long time -- and the specs for Android are so low, Google clearly expects to be able to run Android on existing hardware, without needing new hardware technology.
Of course, the tools and software we need are all in existence already, someone at Google is doing a good job of keeping their mouth shut. Therefore this is not an impossible task, just difficult, but I know you xda-hackers like a challenge! So, Let's go!!
Charles
FYI: I am aware XDA was founded with the Xanadux project, so this should be the perfect place to hack us a gPhone. I've also browsed threads, read the Wiki, studied up on the Hermes Linux project -- but things seem to have died since Feb 07, I'm hoping this latest development with Android will spark interest again, and we will be able to run Linux on our current, most powerful devices. I could make educated guesses about the state of the Xanadux project, but I'd rather hear it from XDA devs themselves who are most familiar.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
where is the video?
anheuer said:
where is the video?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
YouTube Your best friend , along with google obviously
anyone thought of this ? with all the smart developers here I'm sure it';s very doable.
like the Lenovo laptops have the VeriSign sofware. something similar for our ppcs. it would be pretty cool. sorry if it was already discussed maybe.
if it was maybe you can point me in the right direction. thanks
android has a free program something wallet that uses the camera to look at your eye before unlocking. great program if you dont want anyone looking into ur phone
jaygriggs,
I've searched all about xda-developers for the program you mentioned.... do you know where I can find it? Thanks
pclight said:
jaygriggs,
I've searched all about xda-developers for the program you mentioned.... do you know where I can find it? Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i'll bet if you get ahold of a g1 you'll find it
hey if your in luck GOOGLE may even have something on it.... not like they have lots of information cataloged, or that they at all had a hand in the android operating system.....
biowallet
ask and you shall receive
http://whyandroid.com/mobile-news/205-biowallet-secure-your-device.html
But biowalett is for G1 and android only, is there an alternative for windows mobile?
BioWallet isn't even available yet. From the web site:
Availability
Many of you have shown interest in BioWallet these months and have asked us about the availability of the product. We really appreciate it.
Some of you even have got a T-Mobile G1, the first public Android device and want to install BioWallet in it.
The bad news is we haven't been given the possibility to get one and we don't want to release a product that hasn't been thoroughly tested on real hardware. We think it wouldn't be neither professional nor fair for you.
The good news is we keep working hard to deliver a software that meets your highest quality expectations. We will try to get a device somehow in the next few weeks and then our intention is releasing a version through the Android Market and other distribution channels.
If you want to be in the loop just subscribe to the list of BioWallet News and we will keep you posted!
By the way, once we complete the initial tests we want to start a beta program to test BioWallet in as many Android platforms as possible. So if you have an Android device and want a free BioWallet copy to help us to test it, just subscribe to the list of Beta Testers and you could be selected!
* - We respect your privacy and we won't share your data with anybody.
Last Updated ( Wednesday, 29 October 2008 22:53 )
So when the kernel is released what will that mean for us. What kind of things can we look forward to?
Is pending some license/certification completion issues.
Thats what my email from elocity said in my latest response from them. Hoping it's sooner than later. Even explained in the email why getting the kernel released would be good for thier business. They need to deliver something whether it be the A10, the kernel or upgrade options. Wonder how possible that would be. Send your A7 in to get the multitouch screen put in. Anyways when I hear anything I will post more.
With kernel source every developer could:
- make a full ROM (kernel + any version of Android from released sources)
- improve stability and performance
- fix issues before official techsupport
- add new features
That's so important!
If we would get kernel source in summer - that might be too late. Many eLocity owners might change their devices to new Xooms, Flyers, Asus eeePads, Samsung 8.9s and etc...
That is basically how I worded it in my email, pointing out that everyday more people are selling thier a7's and getting a different device. And that if they released the kernel it would practically eliminate that. Also that thier company needs to release something soon, yet to see any branded accessories a10 is delayed and our a7 we want the kernel. give us something before you lose your future market.
I think they have to much on there hands with a10, maybe after they will release something for the a7, keep your fingers crossed
smallba said:
I think they have to much on there hands with a10, maybe after they will release something for the a7, keep your fingers crossed
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Zipping files and emailing them takes about 2 minutes ... doing so will relief them from working more on the A7 has the community will be able to developpe stuff for the A7, otherwise the A7 will just die there.
I suggest we all email [email protected] and ask for those files to be released ASAP.
I would even say that someone just write an email template to copy and paste that email
If they care about having a future market the sooner they release the kernel the better.
masterfred said:
I would even say that someone just write an email template to copy and paste that email
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here.
Code:
Code:
<a href="mailto:[email protected]?subject=Petition for release of A7-040 kernel&[email protected]&body=This message is a petition to release the A7 kernel for independent development.%0A%0AThis will show good faith to your existing customers, and keep them around for the release of your future products.%0A%0AIf there is a issue with a petition being carried out this way please let us know on the A7 section of the XDA forums.">
Result yielded:
To: [email protected]
BCC: [email protected]
Subject: Petition for release of A7-040 kernel
Body:
This message is a petition to release the A7 kernel for independent development.
This will show good faith to your existing customers, and keep them around for the release of your future products.
If there is a issue with a petition being carried out this way please let us know on the A7 section of the XDA forums.
----------------------------------------------------------------
I am not going to make this live, I don't know what kind of legalities would be involved if eLoicty found a flood of e-mails harassing.
You might want to add that XDA and Dexter are even in big reseller's review (Aka Tiger Direct) ... wich is mainly why people would buy an A7 has of today ...
masterfred said:
You might want to add that XDA and Dexter are even in big reseller's review (Aka Tiger Direct) ... wich is mainly why people would buy an A7 has of today ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am not publishing it anywhere, I just made the template and created a Gmail account to track how many people use it, if any.
Like I said in the post, I don't know what kind of legalities would come into play should eLocity deem it harassing. With the whole thing being able to be composed and sent in 2 clicks I can see it being easily abused. I don't plan on being the fall guy should it result in thousands of messages.
Not to sound like an idiot but how do I post this.
rombold said:
Not to sound like an idiot but how do I post this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1.Copy contents of code window.
2. Paste into HTML document.
3. Remember that you are the one responsible when eLocity gets angry.
Dexter what are your thoughts on this?
Here is an encouragement from eLocity Team :
Regarding the kernel information, I have been working to get our overseas team to release it so developers can really take the A7 to new heights. I am hoping to be able to share the kernel info soon and will certainly reach out to Dexter, the XDA community and others so they'll have a new tool to make exploring and developing easier.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't abuse those emails, but for sure, we're making a difference, if it's done properly, I can't imagine a company being mad for receiving interest in their products ...
Sorry, I didnt see this thread when I posted the other new thread...but there is some slightly newer info there.
Kernel
If they release the code does that have any impact on anny new releases of the OS for the A7? Are we assuming the eLocity is done? Is there any chance for a major upgrade before they are done?
@masterfred: your quote from them confirms all my suspicions.
"Over seas development team" my ass. eLocity is just a reseller, at most installing a different launcher and fielding (not to the best of their ability btw) the tech calls. Compal has been the ones pulling the strings the whole time.
So where does it go from here? I have very little faith that Compal will be on any rush to help the development community. They even backed out of marketing this tab under their own branding. I don't trust companies that operate from.the shadows like that.
elocity a7 source code
If you google the whats above you will find many places that reps stated elocity plans to release the source/kernel so keep smiling and be patient.
rombold said:
elocity a7 source code
If you google the whats above you will find many places that reps stated elocity plans to release the source/kernel so keep smiling and be patient.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, they are probably waiting for Compal to release it to them.
Hi, a developer called pulser_g2 developer called codeworx made this petition for Samsung to be more open and be a lot more developer friendly, this petition is for all Samsung android devices, not just the s2. So I thought I would post it here in the hope a few of you may consider singing it please
http://www.change.org/petitions/sam...t-achieve-full-potential-of-purchased-devices
Thank you
Edit: Sorry I made a mistake, the developer Codeworx just heavily promoted the petition, pulser_g2 is the developer who made it, and thanks entropy512 for pointing the mistake out
danielsf said:
Hi, on the galaxy s2 forum, the cm9 developer called codeworx made this petition for Samsung to be more open and be a lot more developer friendly, this petition is for all Samsung android devices, not just the s2. So I thought I would post it here in the hope a few of you may consider singing it please
http://www.change.org/petitions/sam...t-achieve-full-potential-of-purchased-devices
Thank you
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually pulser_g2 created it - codeworkx is just pushing it hard. (he deserves to as he's the one maintaining CM9...)
Also consider pestering them on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/#!/search/users/samsung
Signed
10char
Im hoping the lack of posts in this thread just means people arent commenting in this thread but have signed the petition
I submitted this as a tip for the portal page, hopefully it gets picked up, since being on the portal would generate more interest in this
DT3CH said:
Im hoping the lack of posts in this thread just means people arent commenting in this thread but have signed the petition
I submitted this as a tip for the portal page, hopefully it gets picked up, since being on the portal would generate more interest in this
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Only reason it's not on the portal is because pulser forgot his portal password (He even said so elsewhere.)
(This petition was filed by one of our senior moderator team.)
I haven't signed yet, but that is because I plan on writing a fairly decent bit on why cooperating with developers will benefit Samsung in my "Reason" field and need a bit more time.
signed!
10char
signed
Signed.
10char
IMO, in this day when manufacturers are locking down devices and intentionally making it very difficult for any development, Samsung has really catered to this small community. Companies like Motorola go as far as sabotaging their products to prevent any type hacking, rooting etc.
Sure, Samsung's official software upgrades are slow but I give them a lot of credit for reaching out in ways such as offering some of our top developers free devices.
Entropy512 said:
Only reason it's not on the portal is because pulser forgot his portal password (He even said so elsewhere.)
(This petition was filed by one of our senior moderator team.)
I haven't signed yet, but that is because I plan on writing a fairly decent bit on why cooperating with developers will benefit Samsung in my "Reason" field and need a bit more time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL shows you what I know
Dont know any of the mods here
Joe T said:
IMO, in this day when manufacturers are locking down devices and intentionally making it very difficult for any development, Samsung has really catered to this small community. Companies like Motorola go as far as sabotaging their products to prevent any type hacking, rooting etc.
Sure, Samsung's official software upgrades are slow but I give them a lot of credit for reaching out in ways such as offering some of our top developers free devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The problem is they have, over time, become increasingly antagonistic to platform developers.
They are now failing to comply with the GPL with kernel source for many devices on a regular basis. The Infuse AT&T update took a month for source to show up, and Samsung ignored multiple requests for source in compliance with the GPL. The one time they answered, they claimed that they didn't have to provide source because they had stopped providing the update - that's bull****. If you provide a binary to someone, you MUST provide them the source - even if you are no longer providing binaries to other people.
They go out of their way to avoid releasing source whenever possible - see the AR6000 driver fiasco on the Tab 7 Plus.
The Galaxy S II hardware donation to the Cyanogenmod team was nothing but a PR stunt. If you follow the progress of CM9 on the I9100, you'll see that in addition to not providing any assistance to codeworkx and xplodwild, they are actively throwing barriers in the way. For example, secure containers (used by many apps) are disabled if a custom kernel is used in ICS.
Compare this to Sony, who provided technical assistance to the Cyanogenmod team leading to their entire 2011 lineup being well supported by CM, and also open-sourcing their sensor HALs when they didn't need to. They have also provided OFFICIAL ICS alphas and betas including source in compliance with the GPL, while everyone else just has leaks.
Unless Samsung changes their attitude - my next phone will be a Sony or a Nexus of some sort.
Entropy512 said:
The problem is they have, over time, become increasingly antagonistic to platform developers.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow, I didn't realize all of that. As a GNex owner, I suppose I'm looking at things through rose colored glasses. I thought they changed a lot since the Froyogate fiasco which they received a lot of bad press. Thanks for the info, petition signed!
Signed
Especially since I have 2 Samsung devices currently
Entropy512 said:
The problem is they have, over time, become increasingly antagonistic to platform developers.
They are now failing to comply with the GPL with kernel source for many devices on a regular basis. The Infuse AT&T update took a month for source to show up, and Samsung ignored multiple requests for source in compliance with the GPL. The one time they answered, they claimed that they didn't have to provide source because they had stopped providing the update - that's bull****. If you provide a binary to someone, you MUST provide them the source - even if you are no longer providing binaries to other people.
They go out of their way to avoid releasing source whenever possible - see the AR6000 driver fiasco on the Tab 7 Plus.
The Galaxy S II hardware donation to the Cyanogenmod team was nothing but a PR stunt. If you follow the progress of CM9 on the I9100, you'll see that in addition to not providing any assistance to codeworkx and xplodwild, they are actively throwing barriers in the way. For example, secure containers (used by many apps) are disabled if a custom kernel is used in ICS.
Compare this to Sony, who provided technical assistance to the Cyanogenmod team leading to their entire 2011 lineup being well supported by CM, and also open-sourcing their sensor HALs when they didn't need to. They have also provided OFFICIAL ICS alphas and betas including source in compliance with the GPL, while everyone else just has leaks.
Unless Samsung changes their attitude - my next phone will be a Sony or a Nexus of some sort.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
very well said
Done
Thanks for the info...
Everything to help the devs...
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium
signed.. hope this petition will do something
Joe T said:
IMO, in this day when manufacturers are locking down devices and intentionally making it very difficult for any development, Samsung has really catered to this small community. Companies like Motorola go as far as sabotaging their products to prevent any type hacking, rooting etc.
Sure, Samsung's official software upgrades are slow but I give them a lot of credit for reaching out in ways such as offering some of our top developers free devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I totally agree.I would like Sammy to be more open, like Sony, but I understand they are a company and they have certain policies which will increase their profits...Since my tab has unlocked bootloader and I can flash anything I want I'm ok.
sent from my nokia 3210
Signed.... suggest you do also...
Sent from my Inspire 4G using XDA
signed........let us know how it goes
Signed. Glad to see this.
Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk
I read @Entropy512 write somewhere "we are more in need of developers than of testers at the moment"
To that effect I want to make an appeal to @maxwen @XpLoDWilD @Entropy512 @pulser_g2 and all other people who started the initiative to properly document out a few things
1. If a device maintainer wants to get his device added to omni ROM what should the steps be ?
2. To set up a omni ROM - compliant device tree what are the prerequisites. As in omniROM trees have been seen to be using a format of aosp.mk+custom.mk device makefiles where aosp.mk makes it AOSP-compliant and custom.mk is the omni additions. How custom.mk is to be made (a template maybe ?) should be be documented. In fact I would go out to say a device/custom/sample tree should be made as an example
3. Are there any guidelines as to how much the hardware side codes can be hacked with to make the devices supported ? (Many groups of developers have forks of hardware/qcom/* repos that are pretty liberally spread with #ifdef's and makes them break CTS/CDD in a huge way). How much will these hacks be supported ?
4. Obvious point, what are the fields in which you need help most badly as of now. That is to say ril/telephony experts are highly needed right now or are features the topmost priority or is the highest concern to make the hardware repos tip-top so that devices are completely stable
Also publishing some guides on how to get sources and build the ROM would be good too, but since you are looking for "Developers" right now, it can be assumed that they will figure that much out on their own at least
This documentation will be done.
Actually one of the key goals of omni is to properly document things.
Bear in mind exactly how early this is in the process - it was only yesterday we even made the links available for github...
Documentation will be a large part of going forward and it has been ongoing for a while. Currently that's the biggest task actually, much moreso than the actual development.
Developers don't only write code, they also write docs
To that effect, http://docs.omnirom.org is going to be the home
Among other things I want to do is a "patches for a given feature" document so it's easier to find out how a given feature (such as status bar brightness) was implemented.
I really want to do it before I have too many patches to put in there, but I also have tons of stuff to fix!
Entropy512 said:
Among other things I want to do is a "patches for a given feature" document so it's easier to find out how a given feature (such as status bar brightness) was implemented.
I really want to do it before I have too many patches to put in there, but I also have tons of stuff to fix!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What do you think about this idea? These common kernel patches could also fit into that document.
pulser_g2 said:
This documentation will be done.
Actually one of the key goals of omni is to properly document things.
Bear in mind exactly how early this is in the process - it was only yesterday we even made the links available for github...
Documentation will be a large part of going forward and it has been ongoing for a while. Currently that's the biggest task actually, much moreso than the actual development.
Developers don't only write code, they also write docs
To that effect, http://docs.omnirom.org is going to be the home
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if I can be of any help let me know,
I would love to see this project start off right from the beginning with proper documentation about EVERYTHING
also +100 to @Entropy512 's idea. documenting each feature and how it has been added is really important
I strongly urge that submissions via gerrit should be enforced to have a well written description in the commit message too. (it is so much easier now with gerrit 2.7+ we can do it right inside our browser after the patch has been uploaded too)
championswimmer said:
if I can be of any help let me know,
I would love to see this project start off right from the beginning with proper documentation about EVERYTHING
also +100 to @Entropy512 's idea. documenting each feature and how it has been added is really important
I strongly urge that submissions via gerrit should be enforced to have a well written description in the commit message too. (it is so much easier now with gerrit 2.7+ we can do it right inside our browser after the patch has been uploaded too)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yup. I've always tried to have a detailed commit message in anything I create, but I think we may need to start enforcing it so everyone does it.
Is there any kind of current features / bugs / patches list on the official build? Or even just a changelog?
orangekid said:
Is there any kind of current features / bugs / patches list on the official build? Or even just a changelog?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There are no official builds yet. Too early for that.
so much work to do.
Entropy512 said:
There are no official builds yet. Too early for that.
so much work to do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh, I was under the impression there was a compiled "official" version for the N4, N7, etc...
No worries, in due time I'm sure. Be looking forward to the Nexus 5 build..
orangekid said:
No worries, in due time I'm sure. Be looking forward to the Nexus 5 build..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
give us the device first
I follow Omni for the Nexus 5. Nightlies have started since Monday so I'd like to know if there's a general Omni changelog now or a specific one for each device.
I'm a developer without much ROM/Android development. I'd love to give a hand wherever possible, but like @championswimmer said, it's kind of overwhelming to jump in and help. I'm totally cool to be relegated to documenting things if that helps, but I also understand the interruption that it would cause for you guys to slow down long enough to explain what I need to know.
What I do have experience with:
Java
Jenkins
Minimal app development
Other crap that might or might not be helpful