I have a Moto G4 Play with a cell plan on it.
I like it a lot, and am thinking of getting another one. eBay offers this phone for around $50-60 new, and these are Verizon locked.
Suppose that I don't care about using the phone to call people, but instead, want to use it for WiFi and for experimental purposes like rooting and for catching the Nougat update when it comes.
Does this type of cheap offer make sense, or am I missing something somewhere?
glenmccl79 said:
I have a Moto G4 Play with a cell plan on it.
I like it a lot, and am thinking of getting another one. eBay offers this phone for around $50-60 new, and these are Verizon locked.
Suppose that I don't care about using the phone to call people, but instead, want to use it for WiFi and for experimental purposes like rooting and for catching the Nougat update when it comes.
Does this type of cheap offer make sense, or am I missing something somewhere?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can't unlock the bootloader via official Motorola method on Verizon branded handsets.
The verizon variant xt1609 is cheaper because it supports limited LTE and CDMA bands specifically for the verizon network, no GSM bands, unlike the xt1607 US retail version for example. See https://www.frequencycheck.com/models/GL1Wr/motorola-moto-g4-play-4g-lte-xt1609-motorola-affinity and https://www.frequencycheck.com/models/AzWPV/motorola-moto-g4-play-td-lte-xt1607-motorola-affinity for comparison.
Sprint sold to T-Mobile and T-Mobile is selling off Sprint bands between now and Q1 2022 requiring a phone change to stay on their network. I like my V20 and am not impressed with the new Android phones on offer. (*)
Are there any US providers with whom a Sprint V20 will still work? Good 4G performance (1-10Mbps) is fine for my needs and I need to have reliable SMS. I don't want 5G, HD video, gaming performance, or anything like that. I've checked the usual AT&T, Verizon, etc. but unless I'm misreading something, their networks will not accept this phone.
(*) I just sent back a Pixel 5a/5g after preferring the V20 in a side-by-side comparison.
Verizon
I checked with the IMEI and Vzn says it is not comaptible?
Which V20 do you have? vs995 is the Verizon model, and will work on Verizon. us996 is the unlocked model, and will work on Verizon (that's what I use on verizon). Other models of the v20 will be tied to their particular carrier.
Mine says LS997 in one of the panels. As mentioned in the original post, I am currently with Sprint. The phone boots with a Sprint splash screen but should be unlocked. Hoping to find a compatible provider.
That is the Spring Model, apparently only compatible with Spring. Sorry. :-(
The Sprint V20 isn't configured to get VoLTE and doesn't pass any whitelist or IMEI compatibility check for the 3 U.S. carriers, so you'll have to switch to one of the other carrier-branded models, either the H918 for T-Mobile, H910 for AT&T, or VS995 for Verizon.
If your LS997 really is SIM-unlocked, and you can change APN settings (Sprint phones are notorious for having that option grayed out, regardless of whether they are SIM-unlocked or not), then you may still be able to get it to work on T-Mobile without VoLTE until they shut down both 3G and 2G networks next year. However, even before their shut downs, T-Mobile may start actively blocking phones at any time like AT&T do, so I wouldn't go with an LS997 as the only phone.
This blows so much in the wrong ways. Still have the ls997, but had get free a71 to keep service for TMobile. Tech waste at its finest. Forced to do unwanted.
Thanks, everyone. Looks like I am out of luck and have to get another phone regardless of cellular provider.
I am interested in recommendations something 2 or more years old that I could get refurbished to work with what's coming so I can trawl eBay. I'll look for other V20s per @C D but options would be good.
What I like about the V20 and would like to carry over in no particular order.
- Replaceable battery (hence older models)
- Notifications are fast (The Pixel 5a/5g I returned had issues)
- Camera with manual settings. Not an expert photographer but the manual mode has come in handy
- Runs the few apps I care about effortlessly (BlueMail, Newpipe, Berlin Philharmonic apps)
- Slot for a memory card
- Second screen
- Rock solid Bluetooth performance
Rich_Palermo said:
Thanks, everyone. Looks like I am out of luck and have to get another phone regardless of cellular provider.
I am interested in recommendations something 2 or more years old that I could get refurbished to work with what's coming so I can trawl eBay. I'll look for other V20s per @C D but options would be good.
What I like about the V20 and would like to carry over in no particular order.
- Replaceable battery (hence older models)
- Notifications are fast (The Pixel 5a/5g I returned had issues)
- Camera with manual settings. Not an expert photographer but the manual mode has come in handy
- Runs the few apps I care about effortlessly (BlueMail, Newpipe, Berlin Philharmonic apps)
- Slot for a memory card
- Second screen
- Rock solid Bluetooth performance
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Based on that, I'd say if you can go with Verizon or its MVNOs, the Verizon LG V50 would fit most of these. It has roughly the same size as the V20 and still has the fingerprint scanner on the back, too. I guess you'd have to test the notifications and Bluetooth performance, but as long as whatever seller you go with has a good return policy, that shouldn't be a problem.
The second screen doesn't really exist in any phone other than the V10 and V20, and a removable battery only exists in phones (Samsung Galaxy XCover Pro and Teracube 2e) that are more of a sidegrade/downgrade to the V20 while missing many of its features.
If you need compatibility with all U.S. carriers and don't mind the bigger size and lower screen resolution, there is a carrier model of the V60 for each of the big 3 carriers.
Another notable older all-rounder that's easy to find renewed/refurbished on eBay would be the Samsung Galaxy Note 9 if you don't mind the curved screen and being stuck on Android 10.
I own both a Sprint V50 and a Note 9 (both rooted), and while they lack the removable battery and second screen, they both have an LED notification light (though the V50 has a weird one on the back that's also the 5G logo) and absolutely blow away the V20 in both performance and battery life. Unfortunately, I can't recommend the Sprint V50 yet since I can't seem to get a signal to stay on T-Mobile, and while it does work perfectly on an AT&T MVNO, AT&T could block it at any point since it's not on their whitelist.
You may be able to find most of these for around $300 or less in mint/refurbished/open box shape, and it's up to you to decide if those are worth over getting a different V20 at likely less than half the price.
I will chase all of these down! The Pixel 5a/5g I tried was Android 12 and I thought it was hard to use compared to prior versions. Lots of UI customization features I don't need/want at the expense of core capabilities. My V20 has Android 8 and it works just fine.
I think Sprint is out of the equation and whatever I get has to be for one or more of the other carriers/their resellers.
Hi guys,
I realize that the main carriers in the US will be dropping the old network protocols in 2022, which means my current V20 will no longer work for voice calls. From what I gather, I'd need to run a stock/stock-based ROM to get VoLTE working, which is a deal breaker for me. I need recent security updates and modern Android releases on my phones.
With that being said, any thoughts on a replacement device this coming year? I will certainly miss the replaceable battery the most. Is there a device you recommend that has a relatively easy battery to replace? Honestly, the phone is used for light browsing, email, etc. Pictures and movies are frequently taken from it, so a good camera is a must. The memory card is paramount today, but unsure how long this can last. A device with an active development history with root access, should it be needed, is required for this replacement.
I've been spoiled with the V20 for years now. I just don't know where to start replacing it. Your opinions are greatly appreciated!
The options in the U.S. for a proper replacement are slim to none, depending on your priorities. I don't know much about how easy it is to replace batteries for newer phones, but I can give you an overview for most of the other stuff:
- Phones with hand-removable batteries: Probably not worth going for at this point. Most have specs that are barely better than the V20 with lower screen resolutions, and spare batteries are much less common to find for them. And half of them are from Europe and therefore have almost zero usable LTE bands in the U.S.
- Phones with non-stock custom ROMs that have VoLTE working in the U.S.: Probably limited to the Google Pixels, Motorola, and OnePlus models. Forget about all LG and Samsung phones here since they both use closed-source proprietary files that makes it pretty much impossible for anyone to figure out how to get VoLTE and other stock features to work on AOSP or LineageOS-type ROMs. And unfortunately, Pixels and the higher end OnePlus phones have no microSD card slots, and Motorola phones haven't been known for top quality cameras in a long time.
- Others: There are also Sony phones, but their higher end models are so expensive that I never bothered looking far into any of them.
So, it looks like you'll have to decide which features are must-haves for you and which are OK to let go in order to widen your options a bit.
C D said:
The options in the U.S. for a proper replacement are slim to none, depending on your priorities. I don't know much about how easy it is to replace batteries for newer phones, but I can give you an overview for most of the other stuff:
- Phones with hand-removable batteries: Probably not worth going for at this point. Most have specs that are barely better than the V20 with lower screen resolutions, and spare batteries are much less common to find for them. And half of them are from Europe and therefore have almost zero usable LTE bands in the U.S.
- Phones with non-stock custom ROMs that have VoLTE working in the U.S.: Probably limited to the Google Pixels, Motorola, and OnePlus models. Forget about all LG and Samsung phones here since they both use closed-source proprietary files that makes it pretty much impossible for anyone to figure out how to get VoLTE and other stock features to work on AOSP or LineageOS-type ROMs. And unfortunately, Pixels and the higher end OnePlus phones have no microSD card slots, and Motorola phones haven't been known for top quality cameras in a long time.
- Others: There are also Sony phones, but their higher end models are so expensive that I never bothered looking far into any of them.
So, it looks like you'll have to decide which features are must-haves for you and which are OK to let go in order to widen your options a bit.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for taking the time. I really appreciate the input. Yeah, this is pretty much what I expected. The reason I am leaving the V20, and also a Samsung Note 4 isn't because they no longer work for me, but because of the VoLTE push. It makes me sad. ;(
I have looked at the removable battery options, and to your point, the specs are horrible. I don't think a truly removable battery will work. However, if there's a phone with a non-removable battery that doesn't take an act of God to change, that would be an option.
I do not want to spend hundreds and hundreds of dollars every couple of years for a new device. Custom ROMs have made these devices last years and years. It's also better for the environment. I don't need 20 cores and a TB of RAM in a phone based on my use cases unlike everyone seems to think they do. Without the ability to custom ROM, once the manufacturer ditches the device, it forces one to spend again even though it could last many more years. It seems many aren't really too worried or informed about running a computer in your pocket missing critical security updates. These truths irk the **** out of me!
I wonder if a Pixel would suffice despite the lack of external storage... I know they get updates pretty quickly, are being supported for like 5 years by Google, etc. I think development is pretty active for them too, but I'll have to investigate. The Sony suggestion was a good one to mention, but yeah, ridiculous in price.
I guess I'll start there. If anyone else has other suggestions or advice, I greatly appreciate it. I haven't had to stay up with things because of these wonderful devices and the plethora of options over the years. All good things must come to an end...
I, too, would like to find a more current phone with an easily replaceable battery (pref. without using a heat gun). But it needs to be rootable.
The Galaxy Xcover Pro looked promising (replaceable battery), but isn't rooted.
Wish the Fairphone would come to the states.
Anyone else care to share?
From what I have read, any device that has 3g, phones or other devices - are screwed. All forced upgrade.
Mysticblaze347 said:
From what I have read, any device that has 3g, phones or other devices - are screwed. All forced upgrade.
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Yup, exactly. So, coming from a V20, and based on my loose requirements above, have you any suggestions for a new device?
DaCHeF36 said:
Yup, exactly. So, coming from a V20, and based on my loose requirements above, have you any suggestions for a new device?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wish I did. Removable battery and specs is key. Then features. All phones in the US are non removable battery that are 5G able which is required at most if not all carriers. I personally am with Sprint - well now Tmobile. I still have my V20 (out of service). Free downgrade was Samsung A71 5G. It sucks. Decent specs with no OEM Unlock. No current support anywhere to root.
I have been looking but no luck so far.
Mysticblaze347 said:
I wish I did. Removable battery and specs is key. Then features. All phones in the US are non removable battery that are 5G able which is required at most if not all carriers. I personally am with Sprint - well now Tmobile. I still have my V20 (out of service). Free downgrade was Samsung A71 5G. It sucks. Decent specs with no OEM Unlock. No current support anywhere to root.
I have been looking but no luck so far.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, North American Samsung phones have locked bootloaders. The only current way to get some of them rooted is if they haven't been updated past a certain date due to anti-rollback (Sounds awfully familiar to us LS997 owners, doesn't it?) and then go through a paid service like this one (you can see the supported devices and required software versions – bootloader version numbers are the 5th digit from the right in the baseband version – in the 2nd post).
My understanding is that our phones (V20) will continue to work for now since they have 4g. Yes, we can also access the 3g band, but my phone rarely switches to it. We should be fine for a while on the V20 on 4g.
PS - That's presuming our phones are stock or near-stock and still have functioning VoLTE / HD calls. Stock Android and A_O (Alpha Omega) ROM has this. I believe these phones are safe to use in 2022 and beyond when 3g drops.
baldybill said:
My understanding is that our phones (V20) will continue to work for now since they have 4g. Yes, we can also access the 3g band, but my phone rarely switches to it. We should be fine for a while on the V20 on 4g.
PS - That's presuming our phones are stock or near-stock and still have functioning VoLTE / HD calls. Stock Android and A_O (Alpha Omega) ROM has this. I believe these phones are safe to use in 2022 and beyond when 3g drops.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Right, but it also depends on what the carrier supports as AT&T and Verizon use whitelists.
In the U.S., VoLTE support on the American V20 models goes something like this (and of course stock-based ROMs are a must for this):
- H910 gets VoLTE on AT&T and its MVNOs
- H918 gets VoLTE on T-Mobile and its MVNOs
- VS995 gets VoLTE on Verizon and its MVNOs
- US996 may get VoLTE on some of the above. I've gotten it to work on T-Mobile, 1 out of 2 T-Mobile MVNOs (worked on Tracfone's T-Mobile card but not Liberty Wireless), and an AT&T MVNO (Red Pocket's GSMA).
- LS997 is not configured to have VoLTE out of the box, so any LS997 that has been updated past May 2017 will for sure soon be useless in the U.S. for making and receiving phone calls. For the few of us who still have the older rooted LS997 models, I will soon look into installing Alpha Omega ROMs from the US996 to see if VoLTE can get enabled through there since the hardware is likely present, but I'm not getting my hopes up.
baldybill said:
My understanding is that our phones (V20) will continue to work for now since they have 4g. Yes, we can also access the 3g band, but my phone rarely switches to it. We should be fine for a while on the V20 on 4g.
PS - That's presuming our phones are stock or near-stock and still have functioning VoLTE / HD calls. Stock Android and A_O (Alpha Omega) ROM has this. I believe these phones are safe to use in 2022 and beyond when 3g drops.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not 100% sure about the V20, but I know the Note 4 has 4G, but for data only. It requires calls over 3G on non-stock ROMs. I don't run stock LG ROMs because they are way behind on security updates. Just upgraded to LOS 18.1 giving me security updates from 12/2021. It's much safer.
If you mean that VoLTE will work on a stock-base ROM, you are probably correct. However, that's not an option for me, and in reality, it really shouldn't be for others too! Many, many people are either ignorant to or just don't care about security. There are so many vulnerabilities, including RCE ones, addressed constantly. This is a handheld computer, so it's just like leaving unpatched systems on your network. If you're running Windows 7 still, for example, you're asking to get owned. Bad idea.
Thanks for your feedback though. It is appreciated! If you have any replacement recommendations, I am all ears!
I'll be watching this thread to see where others land, as far as their next device.
Both my wife and I have US996's on Verizon. I'm on A-O Oreo with HD calling enabled. Hers is not on A-O Oreo, hd calling is enabled in the account, but I can't get the toggle in the settings to be "un-greyed". Tried the trick to turn it on and off online, but the page errors out everytime. Guess I'll have to make the time to get her phone flashed to see if that fixes it.
All that aside, I too have been facing the same dilemma as the OP. SD card, root, and straight forward disassembly would be my main needs. IR blaster would be nice. I don't mind replacing a non-removable battery, have disassembled many devices requiring heat.
pistacios said:
I'll be watching this thread to see where others land, as far as their next device.
Both my wife and I have US996's on Verizon. I'm on A-O Oreo with HD calling enabled. Hers is not on A-O Oreo, hd calling is enabled in the account, but I can't get the toggle in the settings to be "un-greyed". Tried the trick to turn it on and off online, but the page errors out everytime. Guess I'll have to make the time to get her phone flashed to see if that fixes it.
All that aside, I too have been facing the same dilemma as the OP. SD card, root, and straight forward disassembly would be my main needs. IR blaster would be nice. I don't mind replacing a non-removable battery, have disassembled many devices requiring heat.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry to hear you're in the same predicament...
I'm trying to justify my SD requirement these days. Why is it one for you exactly?
DaCHeF36 said:
Sorry to hear you're in the same predicament...
I'm trying to justify my SD requirement these days. Why is it one for you exactly?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mainly because if anything happens where I can't access internal phone storage due to hardware failure, at least I know I can salvage data from the SD card externally.
C D said:
Right, but it also depends on what the carrier supports as AT&T and Verizon use whitelists.
In the U.S., VoLTE support on the American V20 models goes something like this (and of course stock-based ROMs are a must for this):
- H910 gets VoLTE on AT&T and its MVNOs
- H918 gets VoLTE on T-Mobile and its MVNOs
- VS995 gets VoLTE on Verizon and its MVNOs
- US996 may get VoLTE on some of the above. I've gotten it to work on T-Mobile, 1 out of 2 T-Mobile MVNOs (worked on Tracfone's T-Mobile card but not Liberty Wireless), and an AT&T MVNO (Red Pocket's GSMA).
- LS997 is not configured to have VoLTE out of the box, so any LS997 that has been updated past May 2017 will for sure soon be useless in the U.S. for making and receiving phone calls. For the few of us who still have the older rooted LS997 models, I will soon look into installing Alpha Omega ROMs from the US996 to see if VoLTE can get enabled through there since the hardware is likely present, but I'm not getting my hopes up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Crossing my fingers that my US996 (w/AO Rom) will work with Verizon. So far, I can toggle the "HD Calls" switch in the settings, so I'm hopeful.
If not, I'll prob. use the VS995.
pistacios said:
Mainly because if anything happens where I can't access internal phone storage due to hardware failure, at least I know I can salvage data from the SD card externally.
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That makes perfect sense. BTW, pistachios rock! lol..
baldybill said:
Crossing my fingers that my US996 (w/AO Rom) will work with Verizon. So far, I can toggle the "HD Calls" switch in the settings, so I'm hopeful.
If not, I'll prob. use the VS995.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My US996 w/A-O on Verizon has made calls over 4gLTE. The only way I'm able to confirm that is if the recipient of the call is also "HD calling", it will show an "HD" icon in green during the call.
Really wish I could figure out WIFI calling. That would probably take flashing a VS995 ROM, and that still is a gamble.
Another wish would be if LG would have just released the propietary files to make it all work with a Lineage based ROM, since they are no longer in the mobile game and have closed the bootloader unlock service as of late November.
Does anyone share concerns over running stock-based software that hasn't been updated for years to continue using these devices? Are you aware of the critical vulnerabilities released monthly for Android OSes? I just want to make sure everyone understands the risks of such an approach.
pistacios said:
Really wish I could figure out WIFI calling. That would probably take flashing a VS995 ROM, and that still is a gamble.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wi-Fi calling is heavily carrier-based, and since there never was a universal all-carrier USA V20 model, you almost certainly have to be on VS995 firmware to get it. Another lesser-known thing to try would be changing your US996's IMEI number to another one that still passes Verizon's IMEI check if you happen to have a phone like that around. I cannot openly discuss the method here since it's illegal in some countries (but not the U.S. – more info here) but it's quite simple to do, and you can message me if you need some pointers. This can be done on my LS997 and US996 but not the H918.
DaCHeF36 said:
Does anyone share concerns over running stock-based software that hasn't been updated for years to continue using these devices? Are you aware of the critical vulnerabilities released monthly for Android OSes? I just want to make sure everyone understands the risks of such an approach.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To me, it mainly depends on what you do on your phone. My usage is likely quite different from yours. You can see my view on this and what my post-V20 daily driver phone has been since September in a similar topic thread on the V20 Subreddit from a few months ago.
And if you want to have a deeper look, you can see most of the stuff of what I've been running on my V20s over here.