Database Users

[Q] HTC Dream vs Nokia 5800

Hi guys!
I had (well stiill have it somewhere) an old HTC wizard and i loved it, XDAdevs helped me a lot with it but well, i needed and upgrade so I bought a Nokia 5800XM. Im happy with it, but now I have the opportunity to change it for an HTC dream, and Id really like to go back to HTC and I dont like symbian very much, Id like to give droid a try.
Yes, I did use the search, i thought there would be some thread like this (since they are similar devices and were released very close) but I couldnt find any.
So, I did comparisons between their specs, and for what i see, the main differences are, dream has qwerty keyboard (big plus, i dont like touch keyboards), capacitive screen (so i guess it means multitouch, vs 5800s resistive), 500something mhz and 192mb ram (5800= 128 ram 400something processor, not big difference but it is something) and hmmm, dont know i got lost.
The 5800 is a bit smaller, has a better screen (360x640 16M, vs Dreams 320x480 65K), FM radio, 3.5 jack (i dont know what kind of plug the dream uses, i would like to know please), TV out, more battery time, better camera (carl zeiss, flash (i use it as a flashlight and works really good), and secondary camera for videocall).. and i think thats it.
Now, you guys, as users, what would you recommend? well if im asking here i guess most of you would go for the dream, but please, tell me ANYTHING, EVERYTHING i should know before making the swap..
is accelerometer good? is GPS good? (my 5800 works fine, but it takes 10 minutes to find satellites so it makes it kind of useless for short trips through the city, it might be because im in Argentina tho)
what about music/video playback? build quality?
If you think i forgot something, or that there is anything i should know before going through with the swap, please let me know! also when im doing the exchange if i decide to go through with it, what should i check is ok and test so i dont get scammed with a broken device?
Sorry if its too long, hope you read it, and that you would help me! Im counting on you guys
Thanks!

You can have the most advanced hardware in the world, but with crap software, it is still junk. Dream is BY FAR the superior.
Commented inline:
jinxie said:
capacitive screen (so i guess it means multitouch, vs 5800s resistive)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Capacitive does NOT mean "multitouch". It means it has a HARD surface designed for use with your fingers. Resistive is a SOFT surface requiring (for proper use) a stylus.
FM radio, 3.5 jack (i dont know what kind of plug the dream uses, i would like to know please), TV out, more battery time, better camera (carl zeiss, flash (i use it as a flashlight and works really good), and secondary camera for videocall).. and i think thats it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is no fm radio, the 3.5 headphone jack is available if you buy a converter from HTC's weird almost-USB plug, there is no tv out (can't think of a single reason you'd want this....), all phone cameras suck -- **ALL**.
Now, you guys, as users, what would you recommend? well if im asking here i guess most of you would go for the dream, but please, tell me ANYTHING, EVERYTHING i should know before making the swap..
is accelerometer good?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes.
is GPS good? (my 5800 works fine, but it takes 10 minutes to find satellites so it makes it kind of useless for short trips through the city, it might be because im in Argentina tho)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The GPS is good... if you do NOT have a DATA NETWORK CONNECTION, it can take a while to connect. WITH a data network connection, you get assisted GPS and very fast locks.
what about music/video playback?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hardware accelerated.
build quality?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Haven't broken mine yet in near 2 years, so must be ok....
If you think i forgot something, or that there is anything i should know before going through with the swap, please let me know! also when im doing the exchange if i decide to go through with it, what should i check is ok and test so i dont get scammed with a broken device?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Make sure it turns on and boots up. If it gets stuck rather than booting up, then it could have been bricked. Some people will do stupid things, like installing 1.33.2005 SPL and end up with a non-functional device.

thank you! thats all im looking for, some reassurement
Make sure it turns on and boots up. If it gets stuck rather than booting up, then it could have been bricked. Some people will do stupid things, like installing 1.33.2005 SPL and end up with a non-functional device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
heh yeah i know, i mean some device specific stuff like.. with my old wizard, the miniUSB soldering was very weak, and also the buttons..
You can have the most advanced hardware in the world, but with crap software, it is still junk. Dream is BY FAR the superior.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
true.
Capacitive does NOT mean "multitouch". It means it has a HARD surface designed for use with your fingers. Resistive is a SOFT surface requiring (for proper use) a stylus.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
but with a capacitive multitouch can be achieved by software, whilst imposible with a resistive.. or well thats my guessing Dream is multitouch right?
There is no fm radio, the 3.5 headphone jack is available if you buy a converter from HTC's weird almost-USB plug, there is no tv out (can't think of a single reason you'd want this....), all phone cameras suck -- **ALL**.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah i already have those converters in my wishlist, but i think that it will come with one. TV out is not of great use thats true, but it is a cool feature to display pictures and videos taken with the device, and also you can watch a movie or something (not the best quality but can be handy at times).
Yeah, all phone cameras suck, but I like to capture the moment and upload it on facebook to share with friends, and even if the quality is not the best, you can at least distinguish whats happening in the picture, even in clubs at night. also the app to use the flash leds as a flashlight is really usefull, but well i guess i could use a white screen app for that.
Haven't broken mine yet in near 2 years, so must be ok....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thats really good to hear!
Again, thanks a lot!

jinxie said:
but with a capacitive multitouch can be achieved by software, whilst imposible with a resistive.. or well thats my guessing Dream is multitouch right?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Incorrect on all accounts.
Dream is NOT multitouch -- not really, except with some nutty hacks that *kinda* work.
And your idea about multitouch being impossible with resistive... well my ASUS T91MT tablet/netbook would disagree with you. It has a resistive multitouch panel.
yeah i already have those converters in my wishlist, but i think that it will come with one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Highly unlikely that it will "come with" one. They did NOT ship with those converters from the factory, and not many people bother with them.... you know, with wired headsets being totally obsolete in favor of bluetooth.
Yeah, all phone cameras suck, but I like to capture the moment and upload it on facebook to share with friends, and even if the quality is not the best, you can at least distinguish whats happening in the picture, even in clubs at night.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The camera works not too bad all things considered. I caught some pictures of a fox snooping around my house a few months ago, turned out nice, but taken outdoors in daylight. LED flashes don't work well -- they just don't give you the same kind of output that a proper flash will, so trying to use it in a dark and psychedelic place won't be yielding very good of results.
also the app to use the flash leds as a flashlight is really usefull, but well i guess i could use a white screen app for that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just turning the display ON in a pinch works OK. I wired up a circuit breaker panel that way once.... however, if you want a flashlight, you should probably buy a flashlight.

lbcoder said:
Incorrect on all accounts.
Dream is NOT multitouch -- not really, except with some nutty hacks that *kinda* work.
And your idea about multitouch being impossible with resistive... well my ASUS T91MT tablet/netbook would disagree with you. It has a resistive multitouch panel.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I got it all wrong then :$
lbcoder said:
Highly unlikely that it will "come with" one. They did NOT ship with those converters from the factory, and not many people bother with them.... you know, with wired headsets being totally obsolete in favor of bluetooth.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah but i think the guy has one.. bt headsets are expensive here in the 3rd world...
lbcoder said:
The camera works not too bad all things considered. I caught some pictures of a fox snooping around my house a few months ago, turned out nice, but taken outdoors in daylight. LED flashes don't work well -- they just don't give you the same kind of output that a proper flash will, so trying to use it in a dark and psychedelic place won't be yielding very good of results.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
should be enough then
lbcoder said:
Just turning the display ON in a pinch works OK. I wired up a circuit breaker panel that way once.... however, if you want a flashlight, you should probably buy a flashlight.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah but i wont be carrying a flashlight with me all the time lol
Thanks!

jinxie said:
yeah but i wont be carrying a flashlight with me all the time lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You should pick up a keyring flashlight like this:
http://www.sourcinggate.com/kaisaiw...ht-led-lamp-mini-size-keying-blue-p-7359.html

Just some words upon the topic: HTC Dream last official firmware is Android 1.6 Donut - it has no multitouch feature. But you can quite easily install Android 2.2 Froyo (CyanogenMOD e.g.) - it has such functionality. As the example, i can say that while navigating through picture gallery you can zoom in and out the image with two fingers movement - and it really works...
GPS: it takes one or two minutes outdoors to catch the satellites without AGPS.
Audioconverter HTC ExtUSB -> 3,5 audiojack costs $5 at ebay.com (item id 335ea04db3 e.g., sorry, no link due to new users policy of xda forum).

CrusaderNN said:
Just some words upon the topic: HTC Dream last official firmware is Android 1.6 Donut - it has no multitouch feature. But you can quite easily install Android 2.2 Froyo (CyanogenMOD e.g.) - it has such functionality. As the example, i can say that while navigating through picture gallery you can zoom in and out the image with two fingers movement - and it really works...
GPS: it takes one or two minutes outdoors to catch the satellites without AGPS.
Audioconverter HTC ExtUSB -> 3,5 audiojack costs $5 at ebay.com (item id 335ea04db3 e.g., sorry, no link due to new users policy of xda forum).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thanks for replying, i already have my dream!
if a "normal" person asked me what i would recommend, i would suggest they get the 5800.
me? im happy with my g1, i just need to find the right rom for me and also a high capacity non-extended battery. im getting one of those adapters this weekend

Hi jinxie
Have you got your new battery? seems like the 1700mAh battery is the largest that conforms to the original form factor.
For myself, I'm thinking of going with a remote that has a 3.5mm headphone port, probably HTC RC E100, instead of one of those multi port USB adapters.
I'm curious to know which ROM you went with?

hey!
i am just ordering the battery right now.. but intl delivery sucks big time for latin america.. so I will tell you in a month lol
about the adapter, i wanted it because the guy who i made the trade with forgot to give me the headphones that come with the device, but now i have them, and i must say im impressed, despite the looks they fit really well (and thats an issue for me, headphones often fall from my ears, but not these), and sound quality is great, even music with heavy bass sounds good, so i think im gonna stick with these for a while..
and about the rom, im open to suggestions, havent found what im looking for yet, CM6 didnt work for me, im currently using biffmod but not happy with it neither, i wanted to try superF, but im not sure if all the issues it had are fixed yet, also i was waiting for the OTA release, so there must be some new stuff now, but actually what i was really looking for was an equivalent for the dream of the milestone's eclairless, i want the most RAM available i can get without the hack (im rethinking that), im really sick of FCs.
i might flash something today as i came to XDA today to look for a ROM, hope i find sth interesting.. what are you using?

I broke my last dream going from CM6.0.0 to biff's. I did manage to get another second hand dream, in good condition, of craig's list and i'm going to chill on rooting for now.
So, did you order a battery that requires a special back cover? For myself, I ordered the 1700mAh battery, just because I really like my case and I wouldn't be able to use my case with one of the super sized batteries that change the form factor.
I really miss having the music controls on the lockscreen and I can't seem to get that feature,at least for free, on cupcake with the stock music app, so I ordered a remote with headphones because, the stock HTC headphones, though sound awesome but are too big for my ears, and keep falling out. With this remote, since it has a 3.5mm jack, I should be able to use my favorite earbuds from sony, that is if I don't like the ones that come with my order.
I attached a picture of the remote / headphones
The most annoying thing I'm finding, is only having sixty megs or so, for apps, and not being able to remove the stock stuff included that I don't use, like Quickoffice, and such.

yeah i saw that remote, looks cool, but i heard that it might not work depending on the rom youre using.. or sth like that, look it up here in the accesories forum..
how did you "break" it? didnt you just brick it? im sure theres some way to recover it.. but tell me how you did it because i dont want to do the same.
still havent flashed anything new yet, since with the low bat life i get im not using the phone that much, but i might try the new cyanogen 6.1.. but im not sure yet..
btw yes i also ordered the 1700mah, the pohne is big and heavy as it is, with an extended battery i might aswell buy a netbook :/
chences are that you will get your bat way before i get mine, so tell me how much more juice you get from it!
edit: so finally today i flashed chromatic 3.9.1.1 (eclair)
so far so good, very fast, i changed adw launcher for launcher pro, now i want to remove all the extra stuff i dont need/use. then lets see how it goes with all my apps loaded, lets give it a few days

here's my post from the CM forum: regarding my broken Dream. I believe there is a JTAG solution, but I figured just get another used for cheap instead of taking the nonbooting dream apart, buying the necessary equipment, learning how to fix it, or getting someone else to, etc. now I'm using it as an extra charger.
The remote I order wasn't the one I really wanted, but it's coming with the earbuds I prefer, instead of the stock ones that are way too big for my ears.
If I still have this phone, I might get one of the 2850mAh batteries just to see if I can get a full days use on a single charge. But I'm thinking of getting a HTC Desire Z from bell off contract, and using it with rogers.

Galaxy S: is it all about hardware issues solved in recent manufacturing?

Edit 30 dec 2010:
see my last post in page 4
GPS suc*s when tested in high roads density urban areas
Hi,
I see many debate here about Galaxy S issues, mainly lag and GPS.
I was scared when got one, but finally, becoming a fan boy too:
In answer to this topic:
DSF said:
1) Test Google search (press and hold option button in home). Press a leter, for eg N. Now you have to wait seconds. Just web, apps are in searchable items. Without web suggestions
2) Swype
3) Manage apps
4) List processes
5) Apps shortcut
6) TouchWiz app drawer
7) Browser (still on JP6 ATM)
And so many issues.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So I tested in my SGS, recently bought (3 weeks):
GPS driving on road behaves like my Sirf III module (but under Navigon, google maps not tested)
Google search is fine (lag less than 1sec)
Swype: really smooth
Manage apps: small lag, max 1 sec or less
Apps shortcut: first time just 1-2 sec, than instant
App drawer is fine, lag is really minimal to abscent, far less than 1 sec when it is there
Browser: no issues
It came with JM7 bundled, never updated firmware as I don't see the need. Bought it in october, just after an out of stock long period
I'm really thinking there are some hardware issues solved recently. My SGS seems to behave like the one from "fanboy"
I'm not going to become a fanboy, just maybe helping with my case. If it is really hardware dependent issues, a mass RMA would help samsung to admit the problems (that they look like have solved in newer devices?). After all, Apple, with their small antenna bug was finally more fair than Samsung.
I really open this topic to give a positive feedback. I also wonder why I have a "perfect" SGS, while many have a bad one? If it is not hardware, what can it be?
Maybe people that get new units, bundled stock with a new firmware (mine was JM7), should give a feedback here.
If it is hardware, why not RMA and put pressure on Samsung

jonny_ftm said:
Hi,
I see many debate here about Galaxy S issues, mainly lag and GPS.
I was scared when got one, but finally, becoming a fan boy too:
In answer to this topic:
So I tested in my SGS, recently bought (3 weeks):
GPS driving on road behaves like my Sirf III module (but under Navigon, google maps not tested)
Google search is fine (lag less than 1sec)
Swype: really smooth
Manage apps: small lag, max 1 sec or less
Apps shortcut: first time just 1-2 sec, than instant
App drawer is fine, lag is really minimal to abscent, far less than 1 sec when it is there
Browser: no issues
It came with JM7 bundled, never updated firmware as I don't see the need. Bought it in october, just after an out of stock long period
I'm really thinking there are some hardware issues solved recently. My SGS seems to behave like the one from "fanboy"
I'm not going to become a fanboy, just maybe helping with my case. If it is really hardware dependent issues, a mass RMA would help samsung to admit the problems (that they look like have solved in newer devices?). After all, Apple, with their small antenna bug was finally more fair than Samsung.
I really open this topic to give a positive feedback. I also wonder why I have a "perfect" SGS, while many have a bad one? If it is not hardware, what can it be?
Maybe people that get new units, bundled stock with a new firmware (mine was JM7), should give a feedback here.
If it is hardware, why not RMA and put pressure on Samsung
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Many people still have release-day SGS's and they work just as good as yours; some people have the problem and some just do not. Was there a hardware update? We don't know and if there was, why would Samsung not announce something and try to put themselves in a terrible position?
We just don't know. I have a release-day SGS myself and the only problem I've had was the button's delaying (which is quite annoying) and "the Black Screen of Death" a few times (which was fixed by not putting on a hard-case from Bell).

hol17 said:
Many people still have release-day SGS's and they work just as good as yours; some people have the problem and some just do not. Was there a hardware update? We don't know and if there was, why would Samsung not announce something and try to put themselves in a terrible position?
We just don't know. I have a release-day SGS myself and the only problem I've had was the button's delaying (which is quite annoying) and "the Black Screen of Death" a few times (which was fixed by not putting on a hard-case from Bell).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi. Just a couple of questions for you if you dont mind.
1.) When you say "Black Screen of Death, do you mean the weird Coma/Crash syndrome? Mine from Bell as well just started doing this about 60 days into owning it and it has happened a total of 3 times in the last 5 days or so.
2.) What do you mean it was SOLVED by not putting on a Hard Case from Bell? I have one from Bell (looks like leather on the back) and you now have me wondering. I have had the case almost since day one though and my phone just started the Coma/Crash as mentioned above about 60 days after owning it. Please advise...
3.) A bit off topic but I see you are rooted on JH2. Can you please tell me how you rooted the device? I have tried the update.zip files I have found before but none of them ever work for me. Do you need to be sim unlocked for the root to work? Please advise...
Thank You...

@yiannisthegreek
1.) When you say "Black Screen of Death, do you mean the weird Coma/Crash syndrome? Mine from Bell as well just started doing this about 60 days into owning it and it has happened a total of 3 times in the last 5 days or so.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes; try to wake the phone and I just can not, no matter what I do and thats when...
SEGWAY
2.) What do you mean it was SOLVED by not putting on a Hard Case from Bell? I have one from Bell (looks like leather on the back) and you now have me wondering. I have had the case almost since day one though and my phone just started the Coma/Crash as mentioned above about 60 days after owning it. Please advise...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'll break it down for you; my problem with the BSOD started to happen after I attached my cases I bought from Bell (the semi-clear hard grey case and the fake crocodile skin case). The cases felt VERY snug to my phone, almost 'death-gripped' (which meant the cases were difficult to take off, almost 'ripping-the-backplate-off' difficult) and I could feel heat through the case. After taking them off, I have never had the BSOD since, although my phone feels a bit naked. I had also UNROOTED my phone but the BSOD happened a few days later (with the case on).
3.) A bit off topic but I see you are rooted on JH2. Can you please tell me how you rooted the device? I have tried the update.zip files I have found before but none of them ever work for me. Do you need to be sim unlocked for the root to work? Please advise...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is the post where I got my update.zip:
Code:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=7536130&postcount=11
The steps were guide-lined here:
Originally Posted by AllGamer
Step 1. root your phone
Bell's I9000M is slightly different than the regular I9000
most of the root methods mentioned on other topics will not work.
Even the 3 button recovery mode has been disabled
After some experimentation this is the working method
download the update.zip from this topic (Thanks to jentech)
http://ip208-100-42-21.static.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=7536130&postcount=11
then you need to run adb devices to make sure your phone is listed
(ADB is part of Android SDK, download it from the source http://developer.android.com/sdk/index.html )
if you get something like
Code:
adb.exe devices
List of devices attached
900098c722a9 device
(if you run adb.exe devices and comes back with an empty list, then make sure you have set the phone into debugging mode Application > Settings > Development > USB Debugging)
then you are can execute
adb.exe reboot recovery
this will take you to the recovery screen
now if your device works with the Power + Volume Up + Home button, then you can skip that, however in my case the 3 button mode didn't work
select the update.zip with the volumen up down button, then hit home screen, it should say installing in yellow, then you are done, it reboots back to normal, and now you can install Busy Box
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hope that helps

I got mine also after the "outstock" period.
Got 2, first one had weird issue, rebooted for no reason and, in the end, USb would work and, everytime I pluged it in (PC or recharge) it would reboot in a loop :S
All of this in the first week
Got it exchange and since then, no reboot, no connection issue, no "lag" and GPS is more than decent (I use it to track jogging and it's right on the spot)
Manif. date of this one is 10.09.21 (specific date on the battery, on the device itself it's 10.09, no day)
I do wonder the same thing as you do, might be a good idea to note the manif. date and if user has issue or not...It might give help to some of us with unreliable SGS get it exchanged!

If the manufacturing date gives different hardware, I would definitely send it back again to get a latest one. My replacement didn't solve the GPS issue...will talk to orange uk again tomorrow...

I agree with thread creator. My SGS works fine right at the beginning (except the lag). I see a date on the battery which is 2010.08.03.
I also think it may be hardware-related issues.

Car navigation software such as Navigon accepts an enormous range of errors though. But the errors are exposed when using GPS for fitness purposes (because if the tracks swing wildly side to side then you do the 10km jog in 7km).
I think it might be hardware these days, but waiting for froyo official to see. After that I'll return my phone as many times as necessary

apart from the gps inaccuracy, there's nothing to complain about! the sgs is simply brilliant however, i'd be happy if they put in more ram on the device :|
the gps update frequency is bad, and sometimes is terribly inaccurate

Has anyone tested, one of these phones, with a bluetooth sirf 3 gps?
I would assume, to a certain extent, that it would help prove, if it is a hardware fault or not.
Are there other factors involved, however?

@jonny_ftm just try a Froyo build. I was pretty happy with Eclair in terms of performance (of course some issues where there too, but not that many).. but froyo has some nice additions (eg: input cursor, copy text from browser, flash support, etc) but it sucks in terms of performance. Even the latest builds (JPO, JPA) seems to suck as some realistic people report.
I have ~ 150 apps in app drawer

I will check the date of manufacture of my phone later and report back.
It could be a good idea to start with this to see if there's really a trend to better hardware with later manufacturing dates.
Sadely, it is not that simple. If in mobile phone industry it works just like in PC electronics, even manufacture date of phone won't help. I explain: intel chipsets on motherboards were often "buggy" in some extent on first production. Later, they enhance the product and produce new build versions of chipset correcting hardware issues. Now, it's upon to motherboard manufacture to use the last chipset build or not. Most time, motherboard manufacture will use old chipset stocks before moving to new one.
So, if we want to know this for sure, only SN and build dates on chipsets inside the phone will be the ultimate proof. Sadely, unlike in PC world, less people open their phones to check components unless they break the screen...
Anyhow, phone manufacturing date can help as early dates would have necessarly early components. Later built phones could or not have the last chipset though.
DSF said:
@jonny_ftm just try a Froyo build. I was pretty happy with Eclair in terms of performance (of course some issues where there too, but not that many).. but froyo has some nice additions (eg: input cursor, copy text from browser, flash support, etc) but it sucks in terms of performance. Even the latest builds (JPO, JPA) seems to suck as some realistic people report.
I have ~ 150 apps in app drawer
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
- I won't try Froyo. Until it is final, we can't say Samsung s**ks, it is just beta testing. My phone works great with original JM7 it came with, I don't need Beta Froyo features if they make the phone unusable. Now, I understand people that need these features getting frustrated. Hopefully, it is not my case, so can't help here
- I only have around 30 applications, I think I won't have more than 50-60 include stock apps. Even a PC with quadcore CPU, 16 Gigs of extreme fast RAM, RAID setup and tons of applications/processes installed will slow down. I don't expect a tiny smartphone to do a better job there. The only OS that was rock stable despite tons of applications is Palm OS, now dead :-(

Mine had 16 6 10 on the battery and I experience the gps issue.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App

Latest phone aren't struggling with lag out of the box anymore.

householddog said:
Has anyone tested, one of these phones, with a bluetooth sirf 3 gps?
I would assume, to a certain extent, that it would help prove, if it is a hardware fault or not.
Are there other factors involved, however?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I tried using my external holux bt gps (which really kicks ass)....but to my surprise i figured android doesn't support external bt gps devices natively! so, google maps or navigation does not bother picking up gps info from the external device. android still has no support....bottom line so we're pretty much stuck with what our sgs can do! sucks i know!

Actually, from what I was led to beleive from the test in the accesories, BT GPS seems to work with everything:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=818688&highlight=GPS
See post #10

nope....even in post#10 he mentions that "in theory"! it just wouldnt work and i did a serious amount of research only to realize android doesnt support external bt based gps devices. however, i havent tried in froyo....will do it tomorrow and post if i have any luck!

All working fine here - manufacturing date 25/08/2010

Very interesting, the date manufacture theory I stated seems not that wrong from the few feedback in this thread. If we have more feedback, it will become evident, for those doubting it, that Samsung is just making fun of his customers. They don't intend to admit any defect and won't recall phones unless forced by a massive customers action.
I'm happy I got mine only in October. When I receive my microSD card, I'll open it and add my contribution with manufacturing date for my working out of the box phone.
All this means it is very bad news for people with very laggy, battery consuming and bad GPS phones

dreamtheater39 said:
nope....even in post#10 he mentions that "in theory"! it just wouldnt work and i did a serious amount of research only to realize android doesnt support external bt based gps devices. however, i havent tried in froyo....will do it tomorrow and post if i have any luck!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just install Bluetooth GPS Provider. It's simple.

[Q] touchwiz/general query

morning all,
Ive just got a s4 after 2 years with an lg optimus 3d (a phone which im very happy with). Now for some queries:
info: its a 9505
Touchwiz: if i use another launcher like Nova or Apex do i lose all of the goodies like the smart eye tracking stuff?
Rooting: i see a lot of topics on this but none have specifically addressed this simple core question, is it safe? can i brick my device i managed to softbrick my optimus 3 times during its life and i didn't feel good about any one of them (and had massive relief when i fixed it) what i'm looking for is a one click solution that gives me the access without all of the recovery ****ery
durability: after taking it out of the box i was instantly struck by how brittle it feels and a web search on said topic didn't fill me with confidence either, can anyone recommend the most effective case for a clumsy individual (i've never dropped my phone but with what feels like a phone mate of chalk i guarantee it'll happen)
HDMI & USB on the go: are the two mutually exclusive? ive seen hdmi connector cables with micro usb slots but all of the example pics suggest the micro usb is for charging only.

My Z4 Tablet Pros and Cons

This might help people eyeing the Z4 Tablet, but are unsure of what positives and negatives there are. Of course, this is highly subjective, but this is my list. It's influenced by my personal competing choices which were the Samsung Galaxy Tab S2 and the Google Pixel C. I'm happy I chose the Sony Xperia Z4 Tablet.
Pros:
Fast SoC (Qualcomm Snapdragon 810)
This is Qualcomm's 2015 flagship SoC and from what I've experienced it's really fast. Android flies. It also runs 64-bit, which it should anyway, but for example Samsung's Tab S2 doesn't. I don't know about the graphical performance as I don't really play games.
'Compatible' SoC (Qualcomm Snapdragon 810)
This opens up the way for optimized-for-specific-SoC apps (like RSBrowser, which is Snapdragon-optimized and significantly faster than stock Chrome/Chromium) and CyanogenMod support, that need documentation/drivers. For example, Samsung's (faster) Exynos SoC's are a black box for developers, which makes things like this very hard and has the result of devs abandoning it.
Big internal storage (32GB)
32GB is plenty of storage for apps and a reasonable amount of media. But that can be stored on the microSD.
microSD capability (up to 128GB)
This is a major benefit for a media consumption device like this, which many devices don't have.
Good multitasking
I could have mentioned 3GB RAM, but that doesn't tell the whole story. Multitasking on the Z4 is pretty darn good. It swtiches quickly and is generally very snappy. My Samsung Galaxy S6 with 3GB RAM has pretty bad RAM management in comparison. I'm still trying to find a custom kernel for it that keeps the phone snappy after 2 days.
Huge screen solution, high ppi on a big screen
2560x1600, 299ppi. On a big 10.1 inch screen. This is wonderful.
16:10 aspect ratio screen
Which is good for widescreen content like movies and dSLR photo's. 16:10 also beats 16:9 for me because of the added screen height.
Screen has natural, accurate colors
Very subjective, but compared to several other screens I've found this one to be superior.
Front facing stereo speakers
A rare thing among Android devices. Good design choice.
Lightweight (~390gr), thin
It's pleasantly light to hold.
NFC, notification LED, GPS, vibration motor
These features are often overlooked, but are important to me. I use NFC for LastPass, the (multicolor!) LED with LightFlow to see what exactly is asking my attention when in standby, vibration to still be notified when I want the tablet to be silent and GPS for the occasional navigation need or social app check-in.
Qualcomm Quick Charge 2.0
Another nice bonus, which isn't mentioned much. Quick Charge makes a major difference to charging speed. Needs a compatible charger though.
Big battery (6000mAh)
Can't yet say battery life is amazing, because I'm using it a lot and crank the screen brightness up quite high so don't know what to expect. Reviewers seem to agree it's great though.
Bootloader can be unlocked (so the road is open for rooting)
No waiting for an exploit if you're OK with going this route. Just follow Sony's instructions and you'll have root in no time.
Marshmallow announced
Should come January '16 I heard, but these things always get delayed :| At least it's coming.
AOSP commitment by Sony
Sony's Open Device Program is nice and all, but their sources are a bit troublesome and don't seem to produce functional ROMs. Still, Sony's stance on it might bode well for future things.
Water-/dustproof
I don't care much myself, but it's a nice bonus. At least it takes some worries away (dropping liquids on it, no fear for dust particles between the screen and the glass).
Keyboard dock option
Nice for when you want to use a physical keyboard that is fully compatible and is also attachable. I use a 3rd party BT keyboard, but I'm constantly fighting with fixing incompatible button mapping stuff.
Important root-specific things that work
These things are not guaranteed to work or be available on any rooted device, and are pretty major in adding possibilities, so I consider them pros to be working on the Z4T:
Xposed Framework
For most people anyway (Some are having issues). This is a thing to be happy about, because if it didn't, chances are it wouldn't be fixed anytime soon because of the small user/dev base. Xposed opens up many possibilities which really enhance a device. To me it's a selling point.
Native KCAL support
Another Qualcomm exclusive. I believe this is actually fully present on the stock ROM, but not fully controllable (limited to RGB in the Settings menu). KCAL support enables you to tweak various image parameters, like RGB, saturation and contrast with a tool like Color Control or Kernel Adiutor. It's pretty great and you don't see it often.
Cons:
SoC might overheat in extreme circumstances
Haven't had any problems myself, and I stress the tablet pretty hard, but I've read some reports about issues. At least of a guy bringing the tablet to the beach. It's mostly just people saying it's fine, even with heavy usage.
Speakers are lacking in bass
No surprise, but it's still a letdown.
Bad low-light camera performance, no flash
Picture quality in low light is disturbingly bad. Having no flash makes this unusable in those situations. Not a big deal for me personally, I don't take pics with a tablet.
Screen isn't that bright
Compared to several others, the screen isn't that bright and needs to be cranked up pretty much, even indoors. Outdoors, this is a problem. The big screen reflectiveness doesn't help either. Indoors it fine, it just that the needed high brightness level eats battery.
Screen lacks deep blacks
This is compared to (S)AMOLED, specifically. Those screen blacks are amazing and darker colors are also good for battery on those screens. IPS screens just don't have that. Using dark themes won't help battery life on the Z4T, it may even be worse with them.
Stock charger isn't Quick Charge 2.0
Come on, Sony.
No hardware navigation buttons
This is a real PITA for me because this requires Android's soft keys / navigation bar which take up valuable screen space. This is especially problematic in landscape mode on this 16:10 ratio in which you'll want every screen height you can get. Fortunately, this can be overcome by tools like GMD Full Screen Immersive Mode (with full screen keyboard typing restrictions so you'll have to switch back to type :S) combined with All in One Gestures, both of which don't reqquire root. Better yet is a build.prop edit that declares to Android the tablet has hardware buttons, removing the soft keys entirely, while keeping the ability to type anywhere. I navigate using All in One Gestures, because GMD GestureControl sometimes stops working. Which isn't very nice when you don't have navigation keys
No user-land root exploit (yet)
Because of this, you'll need to unlock the bootloader to gain root access. Which will destroy your TA partition, which will in turn remove Sony-proprietary functions. Which I personally don't use and don't see much use for anyway. Also, unlocked bootloader can't be undone without Sony noticing, so as a non-EU citizen you'll possibly have warranty issues.
Small user/dev community
Not many people own a Z4 Tablet (bad availability in the US and it's expensive) and because of this, there's next to no development for it. Luckily, we have @AndroPlus who's made a custom kernel and ported TWRP (which unfortunately has a bug that keeps us from restoring the system partition from a backup). @DHGE worked on root, which made it possible in the end I think. Still, custom ROMs would be nice. Also, if you run into device-specific problems, there's not many others that can help, because you're either the only one or one of very few who have that problem.
It's expensive
The price is very high and a bit hard to justify.
What I miss:
Wireless charging
This is sooo convenient. It also spares the precious MicroUSB port, which is used for charging, data-transfer, USB-OTG and adb/fastboot. If it breaks, you're done.
Removable battery
Batteries do not have eternal life, so eventually it will be completely dead. Which will render the tablet dead as well.
Any thoughts, questions, additions or critique is welcome.

jelbo said:
[*]Small user/dev community
Not many people own a Z4 Tablet (bad availability in the US and it's expensive) and because of this, there's next to no development for it. Luckily, we have @AndroPlus who's made a custom kernel and ported TWRP (which unfortunately had a bug that keeps us from restoring the system partition from a backup). @DHGE worked on root, which made it possible in the end I think. Still, custom ROMs would be nice. Also, if you run into device-specific problems, there's not many others that can help, because you're either the only one or one of very few that have that problem.
.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hello jelbo. Let's discuss about it. First of all, our tablet is not alone with some sort of problem. z3+ and z5 devices are the same story. I don't really understand how can we have aosp sources but not to have its rom. So what the problem, some building problem, or is it true that aosp roms works without working sensors? People give different feedback. Did you try some aosp rom? I just want to cook aosp rom in ubuntu.

alex009988 said:
Hello jelbo. Let's discuss about it. First of all, our tablet is not alone with some sort of problem. z3+ and z5 devices are the same story.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, they're similar. Which actually makes me think about a positive point as development for those devices can also benefit Z4T owners. For example @[NUT]'s efforts may eventually reach us, or when an Xperia user-land exploit is found, it will likely be shared among different devices.
I don't really understand how can we have aosp sources but not to have its rom. So what the problem, some building problem, or is it true that aosp roms works without working sensors? People give different feedback. Did you try some aosp rom? I just want to cook aosp rom in ubuntu.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not too sure about the reasons, but what I've seen is that 1) the Sony sources are/have been a bit buggy/messy 2) not many people compile ROMs from it (I've only seen 2 XDA users and the FXP Team).
I haven't yet dared to flash any AOSP build because I've been too busy on getting stock rooted to my liking and troubleshooting my Xposed issues and I don't want to interrupt that. It seems to be quite easy to flash ROMs though, it's either a TWRP flashable .zip, Flashtool flashable .tft or fastboot flashable .bin files.
I'm also curious about the mixed reports about 'sensor stuff not working' and 'everything works fine' on Sony-sourced AOSP builds, but so far no-one has answered my or your questions about it. Seems we'll have too find out ourselves at some point Best leave that part of questions and discussion in their respective threads to keep things organized.

Nice summary, thanks for the effort; its clear and concise.

jelbo said:
it's either a TWRP flashable .zip,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think free xperia team jeer at us cause twrp has a serious bug and it can't flash any roms for the time being whereas we can see exactly .zips at their site.
Interesting, had they even tested themselves what they uploaded

jelbo said:
Yes, they're similar. Which actually makes me think about a positive point as development for those devices can also benefit Z4T owners. For example @[NUT]'s efforts may eventually reach us, or when an Xperia user-land exploit is found, it will likely be shared among different devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've put XZDualRecovery on 'feature freeze' for 2.8 well over a year ago, because it needs some work to keep it working on the ever changing Android eco-system. As a consequence, I also stopped adding devices to the supported devices list. For XZDR 2.9 things will change and I will start adding devices again, remember that I am just on my own, from time to time I have a helper but they generally drop out after a while and I'm on my own again after that... I have a busy real life and a very busy job, which consumes most of my energy, leaving only little amounts of it for use on the XZDR development unfortunately... and I have big plans with it which I'd rather deploy sooner then later.
As security features increase, so do the difficulties to keep XZDR working properly... For the Z3+/Z4/Z5/M4 Aqua it is dm-verity, which throws a tantrum once the system partition is modified, which in turn causes a reboot (and with that a bootloop). This behavior has hampered the Stock Based custom ROM development and made it generally impossible to root the device...
A backup-ta with a built-in root exploit (similar to the XZDR installer) to allow a backup of the TA partition would kick-start the development for these models. People don't mind unlocking their devices but do mind losing their warranty on a 500-700 euro device... so most of them wait for the possibility to backup their TA partition.

Oh, and to actually participate in this topic:
I have to say the Z4 tablet takes my fancy and tics just about all the boxes of things I like about tablets... I own a Xperia Tablet Z, well, the misses has it now and I can 'occasionally' touch it :silly: and I have been looking for a new tablet to actually use myself
I don't have the funds to purchase a TabZ4, but I would really like to have one with the keyboard dock

[NUT] said:
Oh, and to actually participate in this topic:
I have to say the Z4 tablet takes my fancy and tics just about all the boxes of things I like about tablets... I own a Xperia Tablet Z, well, the misses has it now and I can 'occasionally' touch it :silly: and I have been looking for a new tablet to actually use myself
I don't have the funds to purchase a TabZ4, but I would really like to have one with the keyboard dock
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hello. Thanks for participating our thread. Tab Z4 is a great device with cool hardware, but it is less developed in comparison with Samsung to my regret. All we want for this moment are a fix of bug for twrp, problem with mounting the system, and some customs roms. And the very big dream is cyanogenmod of course

@jelbo, where in NL do you live? Did you root your TabZ4 yet?
---------- Post added at 02:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:26 PM ----------
alex009988 said:
Hello. Thanks for participating our thread. Tab Z4 is a great device with cool hardware, but it is less developed in comparison with Samsung to my regret. All we want for this moment are a fix of bug for twrp, problem with mounting the system, and some customs roms. And the very big dream is cyanogenmod of course
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, I am assuming that custom ROM's will come as soon as there is a viable way to flash them
I wonder why @AndroPlus wasn't able to fix the TWRP mount issues yet...

alex009988 said:
Hello. Thanks for participating our thread. Tab Z4 is a great device with cool hardware, but it is less developed in comparison with Samsung to my regret. All we want for this moment are a fix of bug for twrp, problem with mounting the system, and some customs roms. And the very big dream is cyanogenmod of course
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm pretty confident CM will support the 'karin' at some point. Many other Sony phones/tablets are officially supported.
[NUT] said:
@jelbo, where in NL do you live? Did you root your TabZ4 yet?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'll tell you in a PM Yeah, I've unlocked my bootloader and rooted it. I couldn't restrain myself anymore It's so much better now. Just some littles gripes left that'll be fixed sooner or later.
Well, I am assuming that custom ROM's will come as soon as there is a viable way to flash them
I wonder why @AndroPlus wasn't able to fix the TWRP mount issues yet...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Time restraints, who knows? He did post a v11 version of the kernel some days ago though @dl12345 who greatly helped him getting TWRP to work, may be able to fix it, but he hasn't been around. You can follow some technical details about it in the AndroPlusKernel thread.
It's just /system/ that cannot be restored though. Which is bad, but you can get out of a bad situation pretty quickly with restoring /data/ and using Helium/Titanium Backup, I think. Unless you really fried the ROM and need your /system/ back, then you can only go the flashtool route now

jelbo said:
I'm pretty confident CM will support the 'karin' at some point. Many other Sony phones/tablets are officially supported.
I'll tell you in a PM Yeah, I've unlocked my bootloader and rooted it. I couldn't restrain myself anymore It's so much better now. Just some littles gripes left that'll be fixed sooner or later.
Time restraints, who knows? He did post a v11 version of the kernel some days ago though @dl12345 who greatly helped him getting TWRP to work, may be able to fix it, but he hasn't been around. You can follow some technical details about it in the AndroPlusKernel thread.
It's just /system/ that cannot be restored though. Which is bad, but you can get out of a bad situation pretty quickly with restoring /data/ and using Helium/Titanium Backup, I think. Unless you really fried the ROM and need your /system/ back, then you can only go the flashtool route now
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
* [NUT] pokes @AndroPlus to join this conversation.
Due to lack of time on my side to read the entire topic, what exactly fails when restoring system?
@jelbo, do you have his kernel installed (a.k.a. have you unlocked your bootloader)?

[NUT] said:
* [NUT] pokes @AndroPlus to join this conversation.
Due to lack of time on my side to read the entire topic, what exactly fails when restoring system?
@jelbo, do you have his kernel installed (a.k.a. have you unlocked your bootloader)?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes and yes. Basically anyone here who's rooted their tablet is running AndoPlusKernel and have manually unlocked their bootloader.

jelbo said:
Yes and yes. Basically anyone here who's rooted their tablet is running AndoPlusKernel and have manually unlocked their bootloader.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I see, that un-complicates testing a lot

Gotta say... amazing tablet all together and the first device that i havent seen the mighty snapdragon handwarmer throttle from heat in. I kept roasting it for about 3 hours with simpleplanes and PC minecraft (boardwalk app) and it didnt lose any performance just got a bit hot on the back middle. I find the battery life to be good enough for a day of being on and off watching youtube and occasional gaming but i do keep screen brightness on auto at all times and features such as BT NFC and GPS off. Also a app that i think the tablet should have from factory: OGYoutube, you can have floating resizeable youtube above other apps or play in background or with screen off and download in mp4 or mp3.

I'd picked up a Z4T about 4 months ago to replace two different devices, my aging and finally dead cell phone (I hung on to my old Samsung S3 for way too long), and my laptop, which is a still functional but extraordinarily heavy beast of a 17" macbook - about 6 years old on its own as well. What can I say, they were still working so why buy new?
I have to say I'm very glad I made the purchase. I picked up a SBH52 handset to make phone calls more convenient, and splurged on the sony docking kb for the added ruggedness of using it as a "case" - which it does like a champ. Calls are nice and clear, and I've had pretty much no troubles - aside from some occasional static when using the handset (which I owe to the handset itself being a bit flaky). Even with an unlocked BL, remote play on my PS4 still works, only the Bravia screen mirroring to my TV is kaput. It serves very well as a laptop for those like me that need something lightweight for overnight trips, let with a big enough screen to be able to remote desktop troubleshoot back to the main office.
Would this replace every computer I own? Obviously not. I still own a high end desktop for videos, games, and intense word processing (the sony kb is just a bit small if you were attempting to write a novel for example); and my PS4 for console games; but for light end use and for traveling, it's almost the perfect laptop replacement. And as a combo cellphone laptop? I couldn't ask for better. My overall data usage has also dropped, because I'm using far more wireless on this device (I want to make sure it's connected for the stability if nothing else), but I can always drop out to a cell connection if no wireless is available - or if I don't feel like paying the stupid prices at the hotel the convention is being held at.
Now for the Cons:
I've really only got two, one of which was mentioned here. The damn thing is not cheap. Since I live in the states, the LTE version is not available directly. You need to pick up an international version from amazon or another reputable source. Hence the reason I have a kb with extra non-english symbols on it. Not that I mind, but it confuses some people when they look at it. When I picked mine up, the tablet kb and handset ran about $900 US all together. so not something you want to accidentally brick, or drop, or leave behind in a restaurant....
The second one is convenience. Given that it is a tablet - and a fairly large one, most people aren't going to go the phone replacement route like I did. You can't exactly just slip it into your pants pocket. And since the handset is BT, you can't exactly leave the tablet in the car and just use the handset inside most restaurants either (unless you park really close to the building). I'll often leave mine at home if all I do is run to the store for a dozen eggs or something, just because it's easier not to pack it up. But then half an hour of being unconnected and out of touch doesn't bother me - it might bother some though.
So there you have it, a much less technical review, from yet another satisfied user.

begalund said:
I'd picked up a Z4T about 4 months ago to replace two different devices, my aging and finally dead cell phone (I hung on to my old Samsung S3 for way too long), and my laptop, which is a still functional but extraordinarily heavy beast of a 17" macbook - about 6 years old on its own as well. What can I say, they were still working so why buy new?
I have to say I'm very glad I made the purchase. I picked up a SBH52 handset to make phone calls more convenient, and splurged on the sony docking kb for the added ruggedness of using it as a "case" - which it does like a champ. Calls are nice and clear, and I've had pretty much no troubles - aside from some occasional static when using the handset (which I owe to the handset itself being a bit flaky). Even with an unlocked BL, remote play on my PS4 still works, only the Bravia screen mirroring to my TV is kaput. It serves very well as a laptop for those like me that need something lightweight for overnight trips, let with a big enough screen to be able to remote desktop troubleshoot back to the main office.
Would this replace every computer I own? Obviously not. I still own a high end desktop for videos, games, and intense word processing (the sony kb is just a bit small if you were attempting to write a novel for example); and my PS4 for console games; but for light end use and for traveling, it's almost the perfect laptop replacement. And as a combo cellphone laptop? I couldn't ask for better. My overall data usage has also dropped, because I'm using far more wireless on this device (I want to make sure it's connected for the stability if nothing else), but I can always drop out to a cell connection if no wireless is available - or if I don't feel like paying the stupid prices at the hotel the convention is being held at.
Now for the Cons:
I've really only got two, one of which was mentioned here. The damn thing is not cheap. Since I live in the states, the LTE version is not available directly. You need to pick up an international version from amazon or another reputable source. Hence the reason I have a kb with extra non-english symbols on it. Not that I mind, but it confuses some people when they look at it. When I picked mine up, the tablet kb and handset ran about $900 US all together. so not something you want to accidentally brick, or drop, or leave behind in a restaurant....
The second one is convenience. Given that it is a tablet - and a fairly large one, most people aren't going to go the phone replacement route like I did. You can't exactly just slip it into your pants pocket. And since the handset is BT, you can't exactly leave the tablet in the car and just use the handset inside most restaurants either (unless you park really close to the building). I'll often leave mine at home if all I do is run to the store for a dozen eggs or something, just because it's easier not to pack it up. But then half an hour of being unconnected and out of touch doesn't bother me - it might bother some though.
So there you have it, a much less technical review, from yet another satisfied user.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for sharing

So I am coming to this device from the Nvidia Shield Tablet and I love the device thus far for all of the positive reasons mentioned. Also with respect to screen brightness listed as a con my own experience is that it is much better than what I was coming from.
The battery life is truly great with this device and my needs are small when it comes to the development area. I simply need it to be rooted because I prefer to remove all of googles garbage that I don't use and rooting and bootloader unlock was very simple.
All in all I am really liking this device, had it about 10 days now. I have the LTE version but only because I may use it at some point.
Overall very pleased with the device so far.

ThePhoneGeek said:
So I am coming to this device from the Nvidia Shield Tablet and I love the device thus far for all of the positive reasons mentioned. Also with respect to screen brightness listed as a con my own experience is that it is much better than what I was coming from.
The battery life is truly great with this device and my needs are small when it comes to the development area. I simply need it to be rooted because I prefer to remove all of googles garbage that I don't use and rooting and bootloader unlock was very simple.
All in all I am really liking this device, had it about 10 days now. I have the LTE version but only because I may use it at some point.
Overall very pleased with the device so far.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was seriously considering the Shield because of the dev scene and the price. What made you switch?

jelbo said:
I was seriously considering the Shield because of the dev scene and the price. What made you switch?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The device itself just isn't very efficient on battery and I needed something with a slightly larger screen. It does ok but it's really designed more as a gaming device IMO which wasn't what I needed. Also the specs are a bit outdated now.

I noticed in the op that he said being a non eu customer when unlocking bootloader they will notice. Im an eu user, does this mean that they wont notice if I try claim warranty after bootloader unlock? I havent unlocked yet but I was getting slow WiFi and disconnections. I really want root but im not sure about this WiFi issue I set the WiFi to turn off at sleep and it seems better also the issues are caused less im concerned what would you guys do? ive sent it off to Sony once already they said nothing was wrong with wifi. Can someone help me decide? Much appreciated, many thanks.

Brand New Pixel C, had some general questions

Hey Everyone,
I recently purchased a brand new sealed 64GB Pixel C for $275. I have ALWAYS wanted one but never really needed a tablet until recently. My kindle crapped out, and I have been listening to some audiobooks and I wanted a way to combine the 2. I also plan on maybe watching some movies from my Plex server, some Netflix, and that's probably it...oh and some comics as well....
I had some general questions for those of you who have had a Pixel C for some time.
1. I know there are some screen issues, and I believe based on the serial (i'll confirm when it arrives in two days) mine seems to be made in 2016 sometime, and even though I am in the US, it's a EU version.... Do the problems seem to be on all C's or just a specific run of them?
2. If you were me, and only wanted a tablet for ebooks/audio books and of course some media, but no apps that are super intensive, would you just upgrade from the 6.0 to the 8.0 that's official (or 7.0 if it's good?) , or install a custom rom. If the latter, any recommendations from personal experience?
3. Since it's 2020 and this tablet is coming up on almost 5 years....do you feel I overpaid? This is a completely irrelevant question, I just REALLY REALLY wanted one, I hate Samsung and wanted something with as close to a pure google experience like my Pixel phone. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. I have seen them selling used in good shape in the upper 100's range, and most are 32GB.....
4. Anything else I should know that I don't see jumping out at me in the forums that you would pass along to a new C owner?
Thanks everyone in advance!
Hank

Hank_Rearden said:
Hey Everyone,
I recently purchased a brand new sealed 64GB Pixel C for $275. I have ALWAYS wanted one but never really needed a tablet until recently. My kindle crapped out, and I have been listening to some audiobooks and I wanted a way to combine the 2. I also plan on maybe watching some movies from my Plex server, some Netflix, and that's probably it...oh and some comics as well....
I had some general questions for those of you who have had a Pixel C for some time.
1. I know there are some screen issues, and I believe based on the serial (i'll confirm when it arrives in two days) mine seems to be made in 2016 sometime, and even though I am in the US, it's a EU version.... Do the problems seem to be on all C's or just a specific run of them?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am not aware of better or worse serial numbers. I assume later is better? Mine has image retention / ghosting & a purple shift in white balance but I never got the half screen failure or other issues.
2. If you were me, and only wanted a tablet for ebooks/audio books and of course some media, but no apps that are super intensive, would you just upgrade from the 6.0 to the 8.0 that's official (or 7.0 if it's good?) , or install a custom rom. If the latter, any recommendations from personal experience?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I recommend either Pixel Experience 10 or LineageOS 17 if you are at all comfortable with flashing. ROMs are little more work. But they offer the latest patches, some new features, some specific fixes for our aging hardware, and because you have to install TWRP first you have that safety net for when things go wrong. I also happen to really like Android 10 for what that's worth. You might have to use Magisk Hide to get some apps working, and you probably have to sideload Netflix from APKmirror but it should work just fine.
If you don't mind how it works out of the box, and you don't care for fiddling with it, and you aren't concerned with the screen lock bug, then stock is perfectly fine. Some people say 7 was better than 8 because of some video driver bug that broke a few Unity based games. I have zero idea if this was fixed in any of the ROMs.
3. Since it's 2020 and this tablet is coming up on almost 5 years....do you feel I overpaid? This is a completely irrelevant question, I just REALLY REALLY wanted one, I hate Samsung and wanted something with as close to a pure google experience like my Pixel phone. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. I have seen them selling used in good shape in the upper 100's range, and most are 32GB.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am considering selling my Galaxy Tab S6, even though it is nicer in so many ways, because I just disagree with so many Samsung UX decisions. So I continue to use the Pixel C and I hope you like yours. I am a little envious you found a good condition 64GB one! There are countless little touches where the Pixel C does what I expect and my Samsung devices do not. Using an USB audio device? Pixel C can use it for music and also to make VoIP calls. Believe it or not many Samsungs cannot route 'phone' type audio over USB. Music only! Using a mouse? Open Chrome, right-click on a link. Notice that beautiful options menu that pops up? Try the same thing on a Samsung and notice it is just Android back function. Back to the Pixel C, try to middle-click on a link and notice it opens in a new tab in the background. Just like on desktop Chrome! Then, try with a Samsung and notice middle-click is the same as Android home function. Samsung just decided to break mousing and I hate it. Even things like display scaling work well on the Pixel C and badly on Samsung devices. Want everything to be very small? That's easy to do, and basically everything scales (except the nav bar, but there is a fix for that). On my Samsungs some parts of the UI scale and other parts don't. You end with comically unmatched icons and other elements like the notification shade. I really thought DeX could fix these issues for me and it didn't, but that is a different story. I like Samsung features but by golly they suck at the basics IMO.
4. Anything else I should know that I don't see jumping out at me in the forums that you would pass along to a new C owner?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not everything in Google-land is good. The Pixel C was never trouble free and still isn't with even the best ROMs. 3GB of RAM was too little for a 'productivity device' in 2015 and obviously still isn't enough (your use-case should be fine however). The storage speed is slow, it is prone to occassional jank (probably combination slow storage & low RAM), and if the battery isn't perfectly healthy you will experience bad CPU throttling (this is fixed in ROMs and in my case was a night and day difference). You are already aware of the screen problems. The headphone jack quality is not good, and the bluetooth range for headsets is about 5 ft (I am not joking, it's astonishingly bad!). There used to be many WiFi reception complaints but I think it was fixed long ago. Reception is on the weak end however. The touch screen is sensitive to interference and you can get ghost touches when using a low quality charger (YMMV on that one, my hardware might be faulty). Last thing that comes to mind is that occassionally, and seemingly randomly, your lock screen PIN will just... stop working. If you are on stock software with a locked bootloader then all you can do is factory reset!! This alone is a great reason to go with ROMs.
Thanks everyone in advance!
Hank
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good luck and welcome to the community!

locuturus said:
I am not aware of better or worse serial numbers. I assume later is better? Mine has image retention / ghosting & a purple shift in white balance but I never got the half screen failure or other issues.
I recommend either Pixel Experience 10 or LineageOS 17 if you are at all comfortable with flashing. ROMs are little more work. But they offer the latest patches, some new features, some specific fixes for our aging hardware, and because you have to install TWRP first you have that safety net for when things go wrong. I also happen to really like Android 10 for what that's worth. You might have to use Magisk Hide to get some apps working, and you probably have to sideload Netflix from APKmirror but it should work just fine.
If you don't mind how it works out of the box, and you don't care for fiddling with it, and you aren't concerned with the screen lock bug, then stock is perfectly fine. Some people say 7 was better than 8 because of some video driver bug that broke a few Unity based games. I have zero idea if this was fixed in any of the ROMs.
I am considering selling my Galaxy Tab S6, even though it is nicer in so many ways, because I just disagree with so many Samsung UX decisions. So I continue to use the Pixel C and I hope you like yours. I am a little envious you found a good condition 64GB one! There are countless little touches where the Pixel C does what I expect and my Samsung devices do not. Using an USB audio device? Pixel C can use it for music and also to make VoIP calls. Believe it or not many Samsungs cannot route 'phone' type audio over USB. Music only! Using a mouse? Open Chrome, right-click on a link. Notice that beautiful options menu that pops up? Try the same thing on a Samsung and notice it is just Android back function. Back to the Pixel C, try to middle-click on a link and notice it opens in a new tab in the background. Just like on desktop Chrome! Then, try with a Samsung and notice middle-click is the same as Android home function. Samsung just decided to break mousing and I hate it. Even things like display scaling work well on the Pixel C and badly on Samsung devices. Want everything to be very small? That's easy to do, and basically everything scales (except the nav bar, but there is a fix for that). On my Samsungs some parts of the UI scale and other parts don't. You end with comically unmatched icons and other elements like the notification shade. I really thought DeX could fix these issues for me and it didn't, but that is a different story. I like Samsung features but by golly they suck at the basics IMO.
Not everything in Google-land is good. The Pixel C was never trouble free and still isn't with even the best ROMs. 3GB of RAM was too little for a 'productivity device' in 2015 and obviously still isn't enough (your use-case should be fine however). The storage speed is slow, it is prone to occassional jank (probably combination slow storage & low RAM), and if the battery isn't perfectly healthy you will experience bad CPU throttling (this is fixed in ROMs and in my case was a night and day difference). You are already aware of the screen problems. The headphone jack quality is not good, and the bluetooth range for headsets is about 5 ft (I am not joking, it's astonishingly bad!). There used to be many WiFi reception complaints but I think it was fixed long ago. Reception is on the weak end however. The touch screen is sensitive to interference and you can get ghost touches when using a low quality charger (YMMV on that one, my hardware might be faulty). Last thing that comes to mind is that occassionally, and seemingly randomly, your lock screen PIN will just... stop working. If you are on stock software with a locked bootloader then all you can do is factory reset!! This alone is a great reason to go with ROMs.
Good luck and welcome to the community!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you so much for the detailed response. I am glad I am not the only one who feels that way about the Samsung tablets. I ALMOST bought an S4, then I ALMOST bought an S5E, but just don't like the way they do Android. I checked my tracking and the tablet comes today! So I think what I will do is just upgrade to the most recent official, leave the device lock off for now as I don't plan on going anywhere with the C, and see how it goes. I have dabbled in ROMS in the past for a lot of phones I have had through the years, so I assume this is not too far different as far as the process. The Lineage ROM seems to be a little better for the C from reading some of the known issues, but I will take a look at them after I assess the performance of the C. I really don't want to have the unit hit 70% then completely crap the bed on the performance side....
The Bluetooth range is sad to hear considering i JUST ordered the Sony WH-1000XM3 headphones. They will be here either Friday or Saturday. If i need to hear something beyond the range of it sitting close to me I'll just use my phone.
I'll report how things are going once I receive it, and thanks again for the detailed response. It has put me at ease!
Cheers
Hank

It came and was exactly as described. Did the update and now it's charging. Updated some apps and it's moving pretty well. We shall see what happens when I get more stuff loaded on there, but I will say it's better than I expected. Such beautiful hardware.....

1. I know there are some screen issues, and I believe based on the serial (i'll confirm when it arrives in two days) mine seems to be made in 2016 sometime, and even though I am in the US, it's a EU version.... Do the problems seem to be on all C's or just a specific run of them?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I bought an used Pixel C with its keyboard and a pouch and its screen seems still fine. A Youtube video pointed the issue for its cable in the middle behind the screen panel being pressed so I thought keyboard&pouch may have prevented it.
2. If you were me, and only wanted a tablet for ebooks/audio books and of course some media, but no apps that are super intensive, would you just upgrade from the 6.0 to the 8.0 that's official (or 7.0 if it's good?) , or install a custom rom. If the latter, any recommendations from personal experience?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mine was on stock 8..1 and now is LineageOS 17 based on Android 10. Stock 8.1 seemed to work fine. I preferred some Android 10's swiping features such as swiping from left or right to go back and swiping up to go to homescreen or other running apps to buttons and black bottom bar previous versions. Netflix HD still works.
On the other hand, unlocking bootloader caused additional 30 seconds to boot with caution message and weird beep noise in boot sequence. As you might know, even when locked in setting, in recovery mode, someone could physically connect your device to another and steal files in the device. Some error messages with security warning pops up in notification so the rom might not fully support Android security features. (I have little knowledge on this.)
When its brightness set close to lowest level, screen seemed to be turned off or brightness seems a bit unstable. (Being able to set close to the mininum is still good.) BTW some of gamepad buttons mapped incorrectly (not sure it was due to LineageOS).
3. Since it's 2020 and this tablet is coming up on almost 5 years....do you feel I overpaid? This is a completely irrelevant question, I just REALLY REALLY wanted one, I hate Samsung and wanted something with as close to a pure google experience like my Pixel phone. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. I have seen them selling used in good shape in the upper 100's range, and most are 32GB.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's display ratio is better than 16:10 from other android tablets for e-books, pdf files, comics. Someone wrote its ratio fits for two pages side by side. Among Android tablets as far as I know, there are not many with 3:2 or 4:3. Nexus 9's screen could be great but it has only 2GB ram and other flaws. Xiaomi MiPad doesn't support Netflix HD. iPads would match the need but it seems you didn't want one. What I looked for was an Android tablet which is not Samsung or Huawei and supports Netflix HD. Of course, newer APs have advantages in power consumption, better game support, weight etc. Galaxy Tab S6 lite supports S-pen which is good for pdf notetaking. I tried to write in pdf files with Xodo PDF app and Bamboo Tip stylus and it wasn't so successful. Still, I like mine.
4. Anything else I should know that I don't see jumping out at me in the forums that you would pass along to a new C owner?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its PCB is on the left side so it gets hot when running intensive apps or charging. (The bottom of the display turned a bit yellowish. Because of keyboard attached?)
USB PD laptop chargers works but the left side feels hotter compared to charging with 5V 3A chargers.
With its keyboard is good to use on lap or as a stand but it would be pricey to buy a new one.