Seeing as the first Android P Preview came out today, I'm wondering what (and how long) it would take to port it to Project Treble compatible devices.
Considering it is closed source, hard to say...
Though many people are on this.
phhusson said:
Considering it is closed source, hard to say...
Though many people are on this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nice to know!
When the source code is usually released? With the official release of the new Android version? In this case we should wait September 2018 for android P...
Can't we just flash GSI of already released pixel images?
espireso said:
Can't we just flash GSI of already released pixel images?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Released images are not GSI.
phhusson said:
Released images are not GSI.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've learned it from the hard way. I extracted system.img out of newly released pixel.zip. It didn't boot ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
phhusson said:
Considering it is closed source, hard to say...
Though many people are on this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
does it always go open source only after all dp r released and stable is out?
zohaibahd said:
does it always go open source only after all dp r released and stable is out?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes
I too have a question. what if the manufacturer no longer updates their device to android P but the device is trebled supported on Android O. will the devs still can update the device to android P and so on?
Because on not trebled enabled devices still getting the latest OS thru custom roms and powered also by snapdragon SoC.
If we gotta wait until the source is released then what's the point of project treble compared to the usual custom rom developement process ? Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't treble supposed to allow any device that got a vendor partition to boot any system partition regadless of the hardware used by the given device ?
If I'm not mistaken:
Treble allows for a generic system image to be used. The Android P developer previews are very likely not GSIs: they target a particular vendor configuration. (I wouldn't be surprised to find that they include an updated vendor partition to go along with them.)
A GSI doesn't target a particular device, it targets only the known services specified by a particular release of Android - an Android GSI could theoretically target any specified vendor interface, be it 8.0, 8.1, 9.0, or whatever future interface appears, or even multiple if someone wanted to put in the effort.
That doesn't get past the fact that there is no source for Android P yet, so a GSI can't really be built for it. And the vendor interface doesn't mean that any image will boot on any device - maybe one that depends on a strict subset of what's provided in the vendor interface on a particular device, but I wouldn't be able to grab a Pixel image and load it on a Galaxy S9 or Mate 10 Pro, or otherwise for any mix of devices. They all have dependencies on vendor-specific pieces in their vendor partition, at the very least; there's also /product, /oem, and /odm on the Mate 9, which is also depended upon by it's system.img. A GSI can't depend on the existence of those things, an OEM image can.
Maybe, with a fair bit of work, someone could rip apart the Pixel system image and make a GSI out of it, but P would probably be out before that made significant headway into making it a GSI.
irony_delerium said:
If I'm not mistaken:
Treble allows for a generic system image to be used. The Android P developer previews are very likely not GSIs: they target a particular vendor configuration. (I wouldn't be surprised to find that they include an updated vendor partition to go along with them.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yup, vendor partition has been updated.
And all your explanation is correct
Are GSIs for future versions of Android going to be released by Google or some other official entity? I thought this was the whole point of Project Treble :|
bemymonkey said:
Are GSIs for future versions of Android going to be released by Google or some other official entity? I thought this was the whole point of Project Treble :|
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Google does make GSIs available to oems for testing (cts/vts) -- you can find evidence of this in the android-vts google group. I suppose they could make those publicly available, but if they are just stock aosp (with no google apps) they probably don't want to do that yet.
GSIs are a nice outcome of Treble, but that wasn't the main goal.
There is a really good podcast discussing what Treble is over at Android Developers Backstage (episode 75).
Yall need to seriously learn to chill out and enjoy what you have for a second, for real. The P preview is exactly what it is and has always been...a PREVIEW. Just like before when it was only available to nexus devices, it's the same for pixel. Plus, it's highly unstable and buggy as hell right now, and like most previews before this one, a lot of the features will be removed and more added in as time goes.
And to answer your question, ge-n, about what the difference is, it's not an instant invitation to see what Google releases as a preview. For us, our greatest advantage is if you're running a S9 per say (bloated to hell and grossified by their "Samsung experience" aka former TouchWiz) you can get a more stock version if you'd like.
It seems like there's been some movement on this...
How long will we get Stable Treble rom?
MAH35H said:
How long will we get Stable Treble rom?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As long as it takes you to develop one.
Will be interesting to see how the P beta program is distributed since it's a lot of treble devices that's getting it now!
Related
Will Mi A1 get project treble with oreo update?
what is that?
I hope YES...
mahla13 said:
what is that?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Android 8.0 release includes Project Treble, a major re-architect of the Android OS framework designed to make it easier, faster, and less costly for manufacturers to update devices to a new version of Android. Treble is for all new devices launching with Android 8.0 and beyond (the new architecture is already running on the Developer Preview for Pixel phones).Project Treble separates the vendor implementation (device-specific, lower-level software written by silicon manufacturers) from the Android OS framework via a new vendor interface.
In Android 7.x and earlier, no formal vendor interface exists so device makers must update large portions of the Android code to move a device to a newer version of Android.
But as far as I know project treble is only useful if they are using a custom UI like MIUI, Flyme or Touchwiz. Isn't it treble superfluous without a custom UI?
Localhorst86 said:
But as far as I know project treble is only useful if they are using a custom UI like MIUI, Flyme or Touchwiz. Isn't it treble superfluous without a custom UI?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There are some little things, like Xiaomi's camera app. With treble Google could update the OS directly, and Xiaomi could update camera separately.
Am I right? It's more a question than an affirmation
Mendibil said:
There are some little things, like Xiaomi's camera app. With treble Google could update the OS directly, and Xiaomi could update camera separately.
Am I right? It's more a question than an affirmation
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know. But I imagine Xiaomi could simply realease and update the camera app through the play store. Blackberry does this with it's core apps which can only be installed on blackberry devices.
Localhorst86 said:
I don't know. But I imagine Xiaomi could simply realease and update the camera app through the play store. Blackberry does this with it's core apps which can only be installed on blackberry devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True. Motorola used to do the same (I don't know if actually does). Maybe Treble it's not that important for us, Android One users.
While Treble is focused on official Android OEMs, Project Treble should also be revolutionary for aftermarket Android ROM projects
https://www.xda-developers.com/why-current-oneplus-nokia-phones-wont-be-project-treble-certified/
We have /system/vendor....
But on the other hand, we have dual partitions, so maybe they dare to repartition. The beta will be out soon, so we will see.
More details about project treble https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/09/android-8-0-oreo-thoroughly-reviewed/2/#h1
so, any update about this as Beta is released in Mi a1. Did anyone find anything?
I can't find the link anymore, but I've had people test it on Oreo firmware and it was confirmed not to have Treble.
Unfortunately we will not
Until we don't get 4.4.x kernel, we won't get project Trebel. I've never seen a SD625 phone running the 4.4.x kernel so we should blame Qualcomm instead of Xiaomi (tested on a Moto G5 Plus).
Will Project Treble make porting rom easy, like a one-day job?
Could we port roms between different hardware platforms on devices have Treble support?
For example, can we flash the system.img of Honor 9 into an Essential Phone PH-1 and boot EMUI 8.0 on it, or boot Essential's system image on Honor devices?That's not possible before Treble.
The short answer: no. System images from Huawei/Honor phones reference a ton of vendor-specific stuff that isn't available on other phones.
MishaalRahman said:
The short answer: no. System images from Huawei/Honor phones reference a ton of vendor-specific stuff that isn't available on other phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In fact the EMUI camera port is partly working on a xiaomi device,even rhe camera is related to a vendor.xxx.so file that is vendor-specific .The phone even don*t support treble.So I wonder if the vendor stuffs could also be ported.
Hi.
I will turn arround the question.
Will we be able to use the same ROM file (it can be LineageOS) on 2 different devices ?
The hardware specific applications can be installed like now we do it with weather service or root service for LOS or open gapps .
Tomek0000 said:
Will we be able to use the same ROM file (it can be LineageOS) on 2 different devices ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, of course, it already works, check other threads
Hi all,
I am searching and wondering for any guides/ experience/ instructions about:
Can Project Treble be ported to a device where the support is not introduced by the official vendor?
What would be required to do so? I wonder if it would be possible to use the information provided from a released kernel source in combination with some re-partitioning (?), but these are just guesstimates.
So can anyone share some insight please? I think the possibilities such a project could introduce for custom rom developments would be even much more noticeable than right now. But that's just my 2 cents.
Looking forward to hear your thoughts and productive input.
P.S.: Please keep it friendly and productive as I know this is a topic with high chances for very different point of views and that is a good thing as long as everyone is not judging, polite and fine with co-existing opinions.
---
Update: 9th May 2018
I found an interesting lead for enabling treble on devices which current partition layout would not allow it otherwise:
https://github.com/Lanchon/REPIT
Given my understanding of project treble, I would say no. This is due to the fact that you would have to have the individual drivers and their own partitions. So I believe you would have to have those drivers and the partitioning set up from the vendor in order to do it. Then again, this is xda...someone may figure out a way to do all this and make some magic!
@BakedTator Do you reckon an open-source Treble-compatible alternative could be made?
We could call it "Bass".
majamee said:
Hi all,
I am searching and wondering for any guides/ experience/ instructions about:
Can Project Treble be ported to a device where the support is not introduced by the official vendor?
What would be required to do so? I wonder if it would be possible to use the information provided from a released kernel source in combination with some re-partitioning (?), but these are just guesstimates.
So can anyone share some insight please? I think the possibilities such a project could introduce for custom rom developments would be even much more noticeable than right now. But that's just my 2 cents.
Looking forward to hear your thoughts and productive input.
P.S.: Please keep it friendly and productive as I know this is a topic with high chances for very different point of views and that is a good thing as long as everyone is not judging, polite and fine with co-existing opinions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd say it's possible.
There are some good tentatives on the way on some devices, and it seem to have nicely progressed.
It is still not able to boot GSI, but I'm quite confident.
FWIW, this has basically nothing to do with kernel sources, and not with partitioning either.
phhusson said:
I'd say it's possible.
There are some good tentatives on the way on some devices, and it seem to have nicely progressed.
It is still not able to boot GSI, but I'm quite confident.
FWIW, this has basically nothing to do with kernel sources, and not with partitioning either.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for the info, especially for the FWIW part. Nevertheless, could you please be so nice to share what you know what is neccessary instead? I'm not finding any good leads/ information sources about this topic so far. Would be appreciated
zoomer296 said:
@BakedTator Do you reckon an open-source Treble-compatible alternative could be made?
We could call it "Bass".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You heard the man...he says it's possible...I would listen to him over me any day! Lol. Would be nice to see it happen...make more rooms reach more devices
mi5devs are porting Treble to Xiaomi MSM8996 devices (Mi5, Mi5S, mi5S plus, Mi Mix, Mi Note 2)
https://review.lineageos.org/#/q/topic:xiaomi8996-treblize-all-the-things
Nice... the avalanche is starting
Codeworkx is working on bringing treble to Oneplus 5/5T.
https://review.lineageos.org/#/c/205186/
Yes: https://forum.xda-developers.com/re...other-development/rom-lineageos-15-0-t3690465
Another device with Treble ported, Redmi 3S (Land)... @TeamMex has brought in initial Treble support to Redmi 3S just like it was done on Redmi Note 4, using Cust as the Vendor partition... Hope He has great success in it...
Source: https://plus.google.com/u/0/+klozzjesus/posts/5REcrMxfq67
Correct me if I'm wrong. To use Treble device must have /vendor partition right? So if device have this partition by default it will be easier to implement it?
Sent from my Nexus 5X using XDA Labs
Banan PL said:
Correct me if I'm wrong. To use Treble device must have /vendor partition right? So if device have this partition by default it will be easier to implement it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, but devices that have extra AOSP unused partitions, such as the Xiaomi /cust and Motorola /oem can have those partitions mounted as /vendor for treble ports. I'm guessing what's most important is that the partition has enough space for all the vendor blobs
I'm wondering about why they can make their devices (like xiaomi redmi 4 .Etc) adapt to treble.
The vendor code is close-source isn't it? So they write the code completely by them selves????
KuwaLee said:
I'm wondering about why they can make their devices (like xiaomi redmi 4 .Etc) adapt to treble.
The vendor code is close-source isn't it? So they write the code completely by them selves????
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No. There were HALs before Treble, they just connect the old HALs to binderized HALs, Google even wrote several such converters.
(That's a big simplification, they still had to do a lot of work for that, that's not easy)
phhusson said:
No. There were HALs before Treble, they just connect the old HALs to binderized HALs, Google even wrote several such converters.
(That's a big simplification, they still had to do a lot of work for that, that's not easy)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I didn't thought it was possible without rewriting the blobs...are you willing to share some more details/resources to help other people do the same with other terminals?
For example, the whole Xperia X line has an oem partition which can be used as vendor (in the aosp version is used to store the blobs, and they also have some HALs binderized https://github.com/sonyxperiadev/device-sony-common/blob/master/manifest.xml)...but there is still something missing for full treble support.
Thank you
@phhusson when we get Android P dev preview images can we extract/make something to get them work on every treble device or do devs need sources released?
stunned said:
@phhusson when we get Android P dev preview images can we extract/make something to get them work on every treble device or do devs need sources released?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hard to say. I'd say we'll need the sources.
That means that unsupported MTK devices that are still stuck on 6.0 would be able to use treble?
Then if kernel source are necessary for treble would it be possible for devices using MTK Helio Cpus to be finally updated to 8.1 as Kernel Sources are only available for a couple devices using Helio X SOCs?
For instance Helio X20 source are available from Vernee that helped developers building a semi-stable 7.1 ROM for LeEco X62x devices while the Redmi Note 4 MTK is stuck on AOSP 6.0
I think there is a way. We need to explain how Treble Works (I think anybody know's but casual users)
Devices with Treble Support had a /vendor partition with vendor, kernel and all things needed to boot, Before treble all these things will be on /system partition. Now what we can do ?
We can:
- add /vendor partition by adb
What developers need to know to port Treble sucessfully
- Developers need to know how to mount all drivers to be visible for android in /vendor partition
I got a new OP5 (had a OP3). I unlocked the bootloader, installed TWRP, and was looking to root and load LOS 15.1.
I did that, sort of, but then got spooked because every zip I flashed, I got this error:
failed to mount partition '/vendor' (invalid argument)
I flashed back to stock and all seemed well, though I also got stock recovery. When I installed TWRP again and then a custom kernel, I got the same error. Then I couldn't boot with the custom kernel and now I'm headed back to stock.
When I go in to Mount in TWRP, it won't let me select vendor to be mounted.
What's causing that and how do I fix it?
TWRP is just complaining about the missing 'vendor' partition, that only exists in Project Treble ROMs. Therefore, there's nothing to fix. Ignore the error.
https://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=76621704&postcount=285
That one has been modified to remove the warning.
As already wroted, it's just a "cosmetic" bug. Imho it's not a good thing to fix it: every time TRWP release a new patch of their software, you have to wait a lone programmer that modifies the new patch in order to remove this message error.
Consider also this: with next release of Android, named P for now, that is already available as beta for Oneplus 6, the project Treble will be mandatory and not optional as for Android Oreo. There are already some rumors that Oneplus 5/5T will receive update to Android P, and the problem with vendor partition will be gone forever.
Elleby said:
As already wroted, it's just a "cosmetic" bug. Imho it's not a good thing to fix it: every time TRWP release a new patch of their software, you have to wait a lone programmer that modifies the new patch in order to remove this message error.
Consider also this: with next release of Android, named P for now, that is already available as beta for Oneplus 6, the project Treble will be mandatory and not optional as for Android Oreo. There are already some rumors that Oneplus 5/5T will receive update to Android P, and the problem with vendor partition will be gone forever.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's true, but till then, this lone programmer (me ) will patch any updated TWRP that is released so that the the error isn't displayed if you aren't on a treble-compatible ROM.
Thanks all. That makes sense, and also explains why I didn't see it previously with TWRP for OP3.
Elleby said:
As already wroted, it's just a "cosmetic" bug. Imho it's not a good thing to fix it: every time TRWP release a new patch of their software, you have to wait a lone programmer that modifies the new patch in order to remove this message error.
Consider also this: with next release of Android, named P for now, that is already available as beta for Oneplus 6, the project Treble will be mandatory and not optional as for Android Oreo. There are already some rumors that Oneplus 5/5T will receive update to Android P, and the problem with vendor partition will be gone forever.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Source of this, please?
Astur_Torque said:
Source of this, please?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Check out this article, point 3 under "Will my device benefit from Project Treble".
Official statement on Oneplus forum. That part in particular:
Over 135,000 of our users signed up to review the OnePlus 6 early via The Lab. With the OnePlus 6 device in their hands, they'll be among the first in our community to be able to download the Android P Build. (OnePlus 5/5T friends, we'll have something nice lined up for you later this year.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For me that means that they will release Android P on Oneplus5/5T after the initial release for Oneplus 6.
And Project Treble mandatory, link on discussion on reddit. That part in particular:
Devices launching with Android O will come Treble-enabled out of the box.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
shadowstep said:
Check out this article, point 3 under "Will my device benefit from Project Treble".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But there does not mention anything about that is compulsory Treble on Android P (on preoreo phones), just it says its compulsory on Oreo recent-released devices
Astur_Torque said:
But there does not mention anything about that is compulsory Treble on Android P (on preoreo phones), just it says its compulsory on Oreo recent-released devices
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's true for Android Oreo and above. Treble is the reason why there are Android P Betas available for non-Google devices. Also, here's an excerpt from this article: "Going forward, updates to phones will become far more common, as all devices that launch with Android Oreo or newer are required to implement Treble."
shadowstep said:
It's true for Android Oreo and above. Treble is the reason why there are Android P Betas available for non-Google devices. Also, here's an excerpt from this article: "Going forward, updates to phones will become far more common, as all devices that launch with Android Oreo or newer are required to implement Treble."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes I agree with you with that... However... "All devices launched with oreo"... One plus 5 is not one of those... Just 6 and incoming..
Enviado desde mi Oneplus 5 mediante Tapatalk
Astur_Torque said:
Yes I agree with you with that... However... "All devices launched with oreo"... One plus 5 is not one of those... Just 6 and incoming..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're spot on. I never said that OP5/5T will definitely get Treble. Also, I'm not the OP, if you haven't realized that yet. OnePlus got away with having to mandatorily provide Treble to the OP5/5T by launching the device with Nougat (but making it upgradeable to Oreo) -- meaning that these devices don't come under the category of devices that launch with Android Oreo, thereby putting OnePlus under no compulsion to provide Treble to these devices. However, there are rumours that have been floating around that even though there is no compulsion, OnePlus is considering providing Treble to these devices.
Hey everyone I just wanted to ask what this trebel label means, my lack of understanding and research tells me its kinda like OTA but for a more secure way to push updates to devices? being someone who has been using my device fine, am just a bit wonderous wondering what this Trebel means for my favorite ROM, Recovery and Kernel
dalebaxter01 said:
Hey everyone I just wanted to ask what this trebel label means, my lack of understanding and research tells me its kinda like OTA but for a more secure way to push updates to devices? being someone who has been using my device fine, am just a bit wonderous wondering what this Trebel means for my favorite ROM, Recovery and Kernel
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
for the moment, forget about it
it's very green and brings more troubles than solutions or any gain in particular. We will see how things develop with time.
You can read more about treble in here
https://www.xda-developers.com/how-project-treble-revolutionizes-custom-roms-android-oreo/
bornlivedie said:
for the moment, forget about it
it's very green and brings more troubles than solutions or any gain in particular. We will see how things develop with time.
You can read more about treble in here
https://www.xda-developers.com/how-project-treble-revolutionizes-custom-roms-android-oreo/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Reading the article I'm still a bit confused by what all this would mean for the end user, I really enjoy AEX since I moved from RR and it seems like this is the "latest and greatest" type of situation, yeah okay launches are tough but when everything smoothed out what would this treble allow us all to do?
dalebaxter01 said:
Reading the article I'm still a bit confused by what all this would mean for the end user, I really enjoy AEX since I moved from RR and it seems like this is the "latest and greatest" type of situation, yeah okay launches are tough but when everything smoothed out what would this treble allow us all to do?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In reality, it means little to the end user. It could theoretically mean that ROMS require less development time, since all roms in theory are based on a single image.
You can kinda of see this with Google's OEM Partners. At Google I/O they listed a number of partner OEMs that were the first to use treble and for the most part they have released upgrades quicker and more reliably then there non-treble counter parts. This also can be extended to the modding community and in general means that porting roms and developing them on a new phone should be easier.
This is all part of a bigger push by Google to gain uniformity across devices. They started requiring security updates in there SLA's and now are pushing treble.
Trebles's All the benifits goes to vendor and stock rom users Rights. As we are Custom Rom users what are the benefits we getting from Treble Projects?
https://www.androidpolice.com/2018/05/13/project-treble-impact-android-custom-rom-community/
alwynjoshy said:
Trebles's All the benifits goes to vendor and stock rom users Rights. As we are Custom Rom users what are the benefits we getting from Treble Projects?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In the future you will be able to flash the custom treble image specific for your hardware, and then a GSI (Generic System Image) of your choice: RR, AEX, DU, Tesla, etc... that will be generic and able to be flashed in any hardware. That means that GSI development teams will be able to maintain their roms and apply the security fixes without the need to create custom rom versions for each hardware. So, finally we will have real OTA updates for custom ROMs. We all hope LineageOS 16 to have more or less this philosophy too. Well see it in September.
So, benefits for the user:
More ROMs to choose for your device (actually all of them!!!)
More frequent upgrades from custom GSI teams.
Oki said:
In the future you will be able to flash the custom treble image specific for your hardware, and then a GSI (Generic System Image) of your choice: RR, AEX, DU, Tesla, etc... that will be generic and able to be flashed in any hardware. That means that GSI development teams will be able to maintain their roms and apply the security fixes without the need to create custom rom versions for each hardware. So, finally we will have real OTA updates for custom ROMs. We all hope LineageOS 16 to have more or less this philosophy too. Well see it in September.
So, benefits for the user:
More ROMs to choose for your device (actually all of them!!!)
More frequent upgrades from custom GSI teams.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thanks you well explained ?️.
I have question, If we flashed treble once, are we able to flash any treble based rom, for example any devices treble roms
alwynjoshy said:
thanks you well explained ?️.
I have question, If we flashed treble once, are we able to flash any treble based rom, for example any devices treble roms
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Once you have the Treble framework in place and have then flashed a device specific vendor image you can from that point on flash any GSI ROM. The thing to note is that so far NFound's Treble ROMs have included vendor image files in them which makes them device specific, you need to check for and remove any vendor image files from Treble ROMs created for other devices if you wish to try the ROM on a device other than what it was made for.
alwynjoshy said:
thanks you well explained ?️.
I have question, If we flashed treble once, are we able to flash any treble based rom, for example any devices treble roms
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A treble rom is hardware specific, so you cant flash a treble rom designed for a different device. Only GSIs are compatible with multiple devices, and it is this way since the hardware dependant part is only in the treble rom.
Right now there are not fully treble roms available for the Axon7. The currently available roms labeled as treble are delivered and work as a usual full rom. The treble and system parts are still mixed up in those roms. It will take some time until we could enjoy a fully wotking treble rom in the Axon7.