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So I LOVE THIS PHONE, it has been everything I ever wanted in a phone except one key part; The low ligth performance.
I have taken a bunch of pics in darker settings (at work, in clubs, restaurants) and all my pics look blurry/oily (oil painting effect) and the only time I get sharp pics is on close up pics (really close up) with flash.
Is this the norm for this phone? Is samsung releasing an app update?
Do you guys have any apps that solve this issue and can you post them here/the setting you use with them. I have attached some pics below to show examples
I have the same problem.
have you tried it with the smart stabilization mode on ?
For me it turned out the smart stabilization mode was the culprit, disabling it fixed it.
yamensati said:
have you tried it with the smart stabilization mode on ?
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Yep and it only makes things more bright with no real advantage...it still looks blurred/oily and details are hard to make out; but hey I have a little bit more contrast/better colors
Updates wont' fix it - it's the hardware.
Take a look at the tiny little lens on the back of your Note 3. Then compare that with a point & shoot camera. Then realize N3's camera takes in a fraction of the light and has a miniscule sensor. Do you really expect similar performance?
You really need to play with settings, to squeeze maximum performance in low light and one setting for all won't work, but one thing is for sure, get as much light as possible from flash or elsewhere. If you ever watch pros making movies, half of their equipment is lights and light bouncing screens and they use them even in the daylight even with huge lenses costing thousands of dollars. I do agree Samsung could fine tune low light performance a little better, possibly having dedicated low light/night mode and explain "smart stabilization", which is not stabilization, but custom HDR, little better, but it's not that bad, considering small lens and sensor. I've seen that oil painting effect myself, but only in really low light where even DSLR would have hard time to cope.
pete4k said:
You really need to play with settings, to squeeze maximum performance in low light and one setting for all won't work, but one thing is for sure, get as much light as possible from flash or elsewhere. If you ever watch pros making movies, half of their equipment is lights and light bouncing screens and they use them even in the daylight even with huge lenses costing thousands of dollars. I do agree Samsung could fine tune low light performance a little better, possibly having dedicated low light/night mode and explain "smart stabilization", which is not stabilization, but custom HDR, little better, but it's not that bad, considering small lens and sensor. I've seen that oil painting effect myself, but only in really low light where even DSLR would have hard time to cope.
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Click to collapse
what setting do you use in low light?
As I already said there is no one setting for all, but just to give an example, don't use smart stabilization for close distance , because then flash won't fire and here flash will give best results. On the other hand if you were shooting sunset, don't use flash because exposure will be too dark, unless you have people right in front as main subject etc. Smart stabilization won't work for moving objects, since it stocks multiple exposures on top of each other, but it may work pretty well for some static pictures. You could also try to manually set ISO and again it all depends, higher ISO will give you shorter exposure but much more noise, so for static picture you could try lower ISO and brace the phone against some hard surface to avoid shake, or even make a tripod. But nothing beats the light, so always try to position yourself with light behind you, so let's say inside the house have window behind you, not in front of you.
Ive owned every single Android device to date.. yes you read right, every one and if theres one thing Android Devs Can NOT get right out of the box .. its the freaking cameras.
Googles own Nexus 5 needed a few updates from LG to fix it. LGs own G2.. the camera is smudgey and noisey and needs a firmware update.
The LTE version of the S4 (I9005) had shutter lag out of the box, leaving pictures burred and noisey, which was fixed.. eventually... in 4.3.
Thank you so much for this post OP, I was considering a Note 3 as a back up to my Lumia 920 (WP8), soon to be a Lumia 1020.. Its getting ridiculous the way devs are treating us buyers like ****.. "Oh dont worry we can release an OTA next month".
Seriously, take it back and send an email to Samsung "Ram it Samsung", then go buy an HTC One Max.
Stop letting Devs Q&A treat us like ****, return your phones, then send Samsung a Scanned copy of the refund reciept.. explaining it didnt work out of the box.. theyd soon kick their Q&A into gear.
NightOrchid said:
Ive owned every single Android device to date.. yes you read right, every one and if theres one thing Android Devs Can NOT get right out of the box .. its the freaking cameras.
Googles own Nexus 5 needed a few updates from LG to fix it. LGs own G2.. the camera is smudgey and noisey and needs a firmware update.
The LTE version of the S4 (I9005) had shutter lag out of the box, leaving pictures burred and noisey, which was fixed.. eventually... in 4.3.
Thank you so much for this post OP, I was considering a Note 3 as a back up to my Lumia 920 (WP8), soon to be a Lumia 1020.. Its getting ridiculous the way devs are treating us buyers like ****.. "Oh dont worry we can release an OTA next month".
Seriously, take it back and send an email to Samsung "Ram it Samsung", then go buy an HTC One Max.
Stop letting Devs Q&A treat us like ****, return your phones, then send Samsung a Scanned copy of the refund reciept.. explaining it didnt work out of the box.. theyd soon kick their Q&A into gear.
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Click to collapse
I would but I don't know another phone that has a pen. THe pen alone has been the one saving grace for me. I'm a very disorganized guy, ESPECIALLY PAPER and being able to have all my notes in one place has been really convenient. But I don't know, I would like to find a way to get forums to get in contact with Sammy and get them to fix cameras.
BTW does anyone know if the note 2's camera is a better camera and if it would be worth it to return the Note 3 for a Note 2
WHat makes me angry is that most reviewers swear the Note 3 camera is godly. Well not at all in low light
edo101 said:
I would but I don't know another phone that has a pen. THe pen alone has been the one saving grace for me. I'm a very disorganized guy, ESPECIALLY PAPER and being able to have all my notes in one place has been really convenient. But I don't know, I would like to find a way to get forums to get in contact with Sammy and get them to fix cameras.
BTW does anyone know if the note 2's camera is a better camera and if it would be worth it to return the Note 3 for a Note 2.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, It has an 8MP camera on it and its a brilliant camera, Its actually better than the S3, especially in low light. As an amateur photographer, I understand that 13MP dont mean squat.. 8MP cams are better.. less MPs for it to process.. I used to own a Note 2 and I loved it. The photos were truely amazing and Sammy have had a few years to iron out the bugs.. so it works beautifully and smooth.. nice fast shutter speeds with reasonable low light.. oh and the speaker on the back is fantastic and loud, with a rich sound from the wolfson DAC, plus the screen on the Note 2 isnt crappy Pentile either.
Its a great phone and you wont be dissapointed.
EDIT:
Yep I know, but reviewers all do that, its amazing what a new free phone will do to grease a reviewers wheels. I tend to watch independent YouTube reviewers, theres a few honest ones around if you look for them. There seems to be an obession that bigger is better, and in the terms of Camera MPx.. No its not.. trust me,. Look at the HTC One 4 Ultra Pixel.. Its fantastic, the Note 2 is a great phone and its cheap now. Go for it
Good luck
note 2 camera is I can tell for sure at least 40% better than the note 3 camera in low light... that's my personal experience
NightOrchid said:
Yes, It has an 8MP camera on it and its a brilliant camera, Its actually better than the S3, especially in low light. As an amateur photographer, I understand that 13MP dont mean squat.. 8MP cams are better.. less MPs for it to process.. I used to own a Note 2 and I loved it. The photos were truely amazing and Sammy have had a few years to iron out the bugs.. so it works beautifully and smooth.. nice fast shutter speeds with reasonable low light.. oh and the speaker on the back is fantastic and loud, with a rich sound from the wolfson DAC, plus the screen on the Note 2 isnt crappy Pentile either.
Its a great phone and you wont be dissapointed.
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Click to collapse
So I suppose the question now is, is it worth going back to the Note 2 for despite the other advancements in hardware?
With Note 2, do the native updates give it some of the more useful features of the Note 3?
edo101 said:
So I suppose the question now is, is it worth going back to the Note 2 for despite the other advancements in hardware?
With Note 2, do the native updates give it some of the more useful features of the Note 3?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Now that I cant say, sorry. I know the Note 2 did get some added updates from the Note 3 OS, but due to the half-baked flaky bullsh*t OS that samsung, LG and other devs keep giving us "Out of the Box" with their bug ridden, faulty, un-tested devices from a lazy QA depatment over and over again.. I gave up on latest Android new release devices and went to Nokia WP8, but thats just me
And yet we keep buying these faulty release day Android devices.
---------- Post added at 04:18 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:13 AM ----------
NeoDJW said:
note 2 camera is I can tell for sure at least 40% better than the note 3 camera in low light... that's my personal experience
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Click to collapse
Agreed , Its a great camera.
NightOrchid said:
Now that I cant say, sorry. I know the Note 2 did get some added updates from the Note 3 OS, but due to the half-baked flaky bullsh*t OS that samsung, LG and other devs keep giving us "Out of the Box" with their bug ridden, faulty, un-tested devices from a lazy QA depatment over and over again.. I gave up on latest Android new release devices and went to Nokia WP8, but thats just me
And yet we keep buying these faulty release day Android devices.
---------- Post added at 04:18 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:13 AM ----------
Agreed , Its a great camera.
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Click to collapse
Hmm I guess you wouldn't know which one has a wider camera view?
edo101 said:
Hmm I guess you wouldn't know which one has a wider camera view?
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Click to collapse
How do you mean by wider camera view?, are you talking about how much of the picture you take is in a single frame? or do you mean aperture?
The note 2 has an f2.6 aperture lens where as the Note 3 has a wider f2.2 aperture lens, meaning on paper, the Note 3 should let in more light, however, due to the huge number of 13Milion pixels compared to the less crowded 8Million, the aperture size may not matter here.
Also the Note 2 and Note 3 both have a digital zoom, meaning it expands the actual pixels themselves, not the image like a better Optical zoom, but they both have O.I.S and both have panorama shot for expanded images.
EDIT:
You mean as in how much you see through the viewfinder on the screen.. I think the Note 2 is the wider view, but Im not sure someone else reading this may know though
Hope that helps
edo101 said:
I would but I don't know another phone that has a pen. THe pen alone has been the one saving grace for me. I'm a very disorganized guy, ESPECIALLY PAPER and being able to have all my notes in one place has been really convenient. But I don't know, I would like to find a way to get forums to get in contact with Sammy and get them to fix cameras.
BTW does anyone know if the note 2's camera is a better camera and if it would be worth it to return the Note 3 for a Note 2
WHat makes me angry is that most reviewers swear the Note 3 camera is godly. Well not at all in low light
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
AFAIK, the pen functionality in the Note 3 is better.
The camera on the note 2 sounds like a winner...
I guess you need to choose. Since it is only dark in so many situations, I would err on the better specs and forward thinking of the note 3 in terms of android trim, better specs, and future updates.
A $80 point and shoot will do even better than a note 2.
NightOrchid said:
How do you mean by wider camera view?, are you talking about how much of the picture you take is in a single frame? or do you mean aperture?
The note 2 has an f2.6 aperture lens where as the Note 3 has a wider f2.2 aperture lens, meaning on paper, the Note 3 should let in more light, however, due to the huge number of 13Milion pixels compared to the less crowded 8Million, the aperture size may not matter here.
Also the Note 2 and Note 3 both have a digital zoom, meaning it expands the actual pixels themselves, not the image like a better Optical zoom, but they both have O.I.S and both have panorama shot for expanded images.
EDIT:
You mean as in how much you see through the viewfinder on the screen.. I think the Note 2 is the wider view, but Im not sure someone else reading this may know though
Hope that helps
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If you can get a wider picture from the Note 2. Note 3 seemed to have a narrow wide angle. (so lets say Note 2 was 16:9, Note 3 would be 16:11) thats what I mean. you can capture more area with the Note 2 camera
Hey all, received my Note 4 today and the camera quality isnt great, the pictures look blurry even when keeping the camera perfect still. I have taken the plastic film of the lens. Just wondering if anyone else is having this problem
Can you upload an example? Does this happen in low light, outdoors or both?
They were all taken indoors, some with light from room light and sun light through window and others just with a room light (on ceiling). Obviously one with a flash (flash was on auto for all of them but was only used on one after changing iso and white balance). They all just seem a bit grainy and blurry... or is it just me, ill try get some outside tomorrow
Indoor shots will look worse because the ISO will be higher and there's more chance of blurriness with a slow shutter.
Also make sure that you take a photo soon after a focus lock. When I'm indoors,I tend to use touch to shoot and touch on the part of the image I want the camera to focus on.
Sent from my SM-N910U
indoor the camera sucks. the only mini fix i have found is to take iso off auto and put it on 100 for indoor shots.
Ill use the touch to take pic and try the iso at 100, i dont understand cameras lol
Also i read somewhere to put the metering mode on matrix, its comes on centre weighted so should i leave it on that?
The Note 4 camera isn't very good. For perfectly still shots it's not so bad but any movement at all and the pictures turn into a blur fest. There is something wrong with the software on the phone, there is lag in places there should not be. The note 3 out performs the 4 by a large margin. I think this lag is the reason the camera cannot handle movement. I have tested several Note 4's. Some from TMO and some from Verizon (mine is Verizon) and it affects all the ones I tested except for the demo model I tried at Target. For some reason that one blurred much less and was much quicker when snapping pictures.
I use my camera a lot, this will probably be a deal breaker for me. I was hoping to see a good rom that would fix the lag issues and hopefully the camera problems with it.
Couldnt it be fixed in a firmware update? I have also noticed it to be a bit sluggish in places.
Theres also a hair inside the camera, underneath the glass but luckily its not over the lens,theres a hair inside the heart rate sensor bit as well. So dont know if that will affect anything
Schwuar said:
Couldnt it be fixed in a firmware update? I have also noticed it to be a bit sluggish in places.
Theres also a hair inside the camera, underneath the glass but luckily its not over the lens,theres a hair inside the heart rate sensor bit as well. So dont know if that will affect anything
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Click to collapse
That right there would be the ultimate deal breaker for me. Any hair, human or otherwise, in my phone is an automatic return or warranty repair. I can handle some non-uniformity of the screen and stuff like that, but hair? Ick.
I've noticed that the indoor camera sucks pretty bad. Everything's a bit yellowish. Images can be adjusted a bit with the included software, but still not great. Outdoor photos are not so bad. But considering how hyped the camera was on this phone, it's a major letdown.
I think the camera is great considering it's a phone and not a digital camera (people seem to forget that sometimes) Almost all Android camera's perform bad in low light because of shuttertime limitations in de Android camera API (it simply does not provide long opening times) . Not much any Android smartphone manufacturer can do about that. Also if you're using flash indoors it's a LED not Xenon flash. Even the cheapest digital camera is using a real flash and outperforms a LED flash device.
regards
Seems it will get much better possibilities in Android L
http://www.anandtech.com/show/8274/understanding-androids-camera-hal3
marleyb said:
I think the camera is great considering it's a phone and not a digital camera (people seem to forget that sometimes) Almost all Android camera's perform bad in low light because of shutertime limitations in de Android camera API (it simply does not provide long opening times) . Not much any Android smartphone manufacturer can do about that. Also if you're using flash indoors it's a LED not Xenon flash. Even the cheapest digital camera is using a real flash and outperforms a LED flash device.
regards
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Click to collapse
All true. They just need to stop hyping these cameras as digital camera replacements and all that. It sets unrealistic expectations.
marleyb said:
I think the camera is great considering it's a phone and not a digital camera (people seem to forget that sometimes) Almost all Android camera's perform bad in low light because of shuttertime limitations in de Android camera API (it simply does not provide long opening times) . Not much any Android smartphone manufacturer can do about that. Also if you're using flash indoors it's a LED not Xenon flash. Even the cheapest digital camera is using a real flash and outperforms a LED flash device.
regards
Seems it will get much better possibilities in Android L
http://www.anandtech.com/show/8274/understanding-androids-camera-hal3
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This camera is worse than what it should be. I hate to see apologists come in and make light of something that is obviously very wrong with the note 4.
TIGGAH said:
This camera is worse than what it should be. I hate to see apologists come in and make light of something that is obviously very wrong with the note 4.
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And your information is based on what? It's no apologize that Android camera API is limited, it's a fact. What you don't understand about that? In other words you can put a professional CCD chip in a Android phone and it can only profit to certain amount of it because of OS limitations to access the hardware. Lucky the Google developers have seen the light and in Android L there will be improvement.
Hell no! Ur camera is ok! Its just ur eyes
Sent from my SM-N910C using XDA Free mobile app
marleyb said:
And your information is based on what? It's no apologize that Android camera API is limited, it's a fact. What you don't understand about that? In other words you can put a professional CCD chip in a Android phone and it can only profit to certain amount of it because of OS limitations to access the hardware. Lucky the Google developers have seen the light and in Android L there will be improvement.
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Click to collapse
I have very realistic expectations of what the camera should/can do and it doesn't do it. Also the in general lag is not right for the processor this thing has.
Like I said the note 3 has it over the 4 performance wise.
I'm hoping it's just simple software fix and things will be in an acceptable state.
TIGGAH said:
I have very realistic expectations of what the camera should/can do and it doesn't do it.
.
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That's your expectation, I can't argue with that. I do know for sure there is no Android Smartphone on the market, which camera performs better then a cheap 60 bucks digital camera . Which is logical because of OS limitations I mentioned.
TIGGAH said:
Also the in general lag is not right for the processor this thing has.
Like I said the note 3 has it over the 4 performance wise.
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The lag (if there is any) is mainly caused by TW AFAIK . I can tell you from first hand that the Note 3 does not perform better then the Note 4 as they are laying both in front of me now in my desk. Also you have take in account, that the Note 3 is longer on the market and most bugs (if any) are tackled with software updates, while the Note 4 is just 4 weeks on sale.
TIGGAH said:
I'm hoping it's just simple software fix and things will be in an acceptable state.
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You're disappointed in your new phone because of your own expectations, if you can't live with it ,trade it in against? Honestly I wouldn't know which phone to choose then myself.
Thanks for this thread. Its convinced me to stick with my note 3 after all. I've been waiting for an honest discussion on medium/low light shots indoors with the note 4.
Funny how no review sites pick up on this issue. Hopefully lollipop will make my note 3 take better shots anyway.
To me there is no good reason now to get a Note 4, especially with lag reports.
A n6 is maybe still a consideration having dual speakers, which is now the only significant upgrade to me. That or pass on upgrading this year.
IMO the lag on the note 4 is no worse than that on any other android phone I've had (I'm on the third plus three different tablet models) and I don't think it's all that bad.
Drop by your local store and give it a try for yourself though from what I've read, there's no compelling reason to upgrade from a note 3.
skibadee said:
Thanks for this thread. Its convinced me to stick with my note 3 after all. I've been waiting for an honest discussion on medium/low light shots indoors with the note 4.
Funny how no review sites pick up on this issue. Hopefully lollipop will make my note 3 take better shots anyway.
To me there is no good reason now to get a Note 4, especially with lag reports.
A n6 is maybe still a consideration having dual speakers, which is now the only significant upgrade to me. That or pass on upgrading this year.
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Click to collapse
Some reports did compare..... and note 4 outperforms note 3 buy a huge margin.
1. Not all cameras have ois, not even the note 3. Note 4 has it and that allows for relatively long shutter speeds like 1/8s (I've seen note 4 do 1/4 once but that's rare). That's a huge upgrade from note 3.
2 . The note 4 uses sony's IMX 240 sensor which is 1/2.6 inch size. The note 3? And older generation sensor is of a smaller 1/3.06 size. Now. Note 3 is 13MP and note 4 is 16MP. So individual pixel size of both cameras is of the same 1.12 um size. However it's a known quantity that IMX 240 's has better iso performance than I'm 135. Thus note 4 should have better low light shots.
3.its been known that the note 3 takes bad low light shots due lack of ois and the old IMX135 sensor.
4. Almost all galaxy series engage in some kind of "image stacking" software to reduce noise in low light shots. Aka night mode. This is probably low light shots EXIF data is eroded .
As for the lag. What lag ? Jerkiness in viewfinder? Lag in auto focus?
From phonearena
" Outdoors at night, the Galaxy Note 4 soaks in quite a bit more light than the Galaxy Note 3, which results in more visible illuminated details at the expense of overexposure. Photos taken by the Galaxy Note 3 look decidedly darker and noisier in comparison. They are also much softer, while the Galaxy Note 4 retains fairly sharp detail. Low-light photography has seen a big improvement in the new phablet, and by dialling down the exposure setting a notch, you will emerge with more usable night photos than before. "
From Engadget
"But low-light performance is what impressed me the most about the Note 4. While ISOCELL helped improve the GS5 over the Note 3, it still wasn't very good. Optical image stabilization has made a tremendous difference here; objects that barely show up at all on other Samsung cameras can be easily seen on the Note 4. In fairness, the images still don't look as natural here as they do on the iPhone 6 Plus, but this is by far the best nighttime imaging performance I've seen on a Samsung phone."
If your note 3 does better low light shots than note 4. Your phone is probably faulty or you picked the wrong settings for the camera.
It's funny how so many people here expect unrealistic results from this camera. Is this camera better than a PnS camera? Nope.
This this camera worse? Not really.
If you're talking about junk market for PNS cameras. They use a 1/2.3 inch sensor which is not all much bigger than note 4.
A lot of them don't have OIS or Sony's newer image sensors ( Sony's sensors are widely used in many brands).Note 4's image quality is probably better
If you're talking about the mid segment. They use approx a 1/1.7 inch sensor which can probably do a little better low light shots. But they are not really cheap anymore. Eg canon s120. Olympus xz2 etc...
Note 4 loses out a bit here. But that's cause these cameras are meant to be an upgrade from smartphone cameras
If you're talking about about the premium segment. Eg canon gx7 gx1 Sony rx100. Most of them have 1 inch sensors which boast relative great low light performance.
(They still suck compared to mirrorless or dslrs though). However they are probably as expensive as your note 4 or even more.
Albert Poon said:
May I ask you guys with M9 to take pics using manual mode? A tripod, phone holder, low ISO, long explosure to take some night views?
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This was missing in the flickr album. Long exposure 1/4, 1/2 or 1s shots. And please use flickr so we can see exifs easily. board attachments and imgur strip exifs out. I notice the phonearena samples have no exifs in them at all.
Though i have to say i like this one. Just enough silhouette to set the mood.
ISO 80 and 1/40 WHAT!!! for late afternoon Seattle in winter. I can't tell if its HDR or not.
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xxquicksh0txx said:
https://plus.google.com/10388377056...6126393456474303042&oid=103883770561517758752 Link to the beetle picture on his Google+ with a resolution of 1108 x 625. Definitely cropped/compressed
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Taken with VSCO cam, ISO 50, 1/268. So ample light.
Also used flash. Sharpness is set to soft.
A nice photo.
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vegetaleb said:
Here a comparison of crop between M9 and Note 4 in not very low light conditions taken by the Tweakers review, you can clearly see the superiority of the Note 4 in the details like the logos of Goodyear and the wheel:
I know it's not final software but this M9 camera is giving the same results the SE C905 could give 6 years ago
M9
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"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
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"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
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Note 4
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Note 4 is ISO 400, 1/10
M9 is ISO 640, 1/14
About half a f-stop difference.
What if the M9 tried to get that with ISO 300 ie ISO 200 +0.3 at 1/7 ? or go slower still ISO100+0.3 at 1/3 ? can't do these tricks with the note, slowest it will get is 1/8 and then its auto night mode kicks in which did not happen in this picture. S5 & note 4 have improved their low light capability over their predecessors in auto but i bet you can come close to matching it if not exceeding it with manual on m9.
Light in this shot is quite low btw.
th3 said:
This obsession is what makes every product better in every field, than its predecessor.
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That pair is not as important as you think it is and that applies for all with good light.
Where this 'trounces' occurs is in low light. I've already said what needs to be done.
Without this obsession, there can be no better or worse product, and you'll still be saying "good enough" to the HTC Desire camera
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with macros yeah i would because there is no difference there. I've seen three year old devices do excellent macros. Hint: macros are not a good demonstration of what the latest camera can do.
The only real innovation we've had in sensors is BSI over the last two years. More sensitive in low light. You couldn't do that with 2013 devices, m7 was the sole exception. The rest is processing, how much of it or lack thereof.
On a more general level the trick with these devices is to know when to compromise and when to be maximalist. There is no perfect device so what you end up with is what you can tolerate over what you cannot do without. Every device has this trade off. Unfortunately you are alone with making this decision. Unless you are lucky to find others whose requirements match yours closely. Now do you see why i said minor. its minor in a larger context.
What you're saying... 'Moving the goalpost' it's called. Common trick.
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no tricks. calling it straight.
i don't trust auto.That on some devices its always flawless is a myth. auto goes wrong even on dslrs. what will you do then ? blame the device or your own ignorance. better to understand why and what went wrong and then fix it. and you can.
What i'm sensing here is an unwillingness to do so. That is something else.
Your opinion is not supported by the data we all have.
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That does not make what i said wrong. Its up to people here to provide that data. particularly low light with manual.
Its right because i've seen the same done with numerous devices already. This is how cameras work. They need light.
Give them that and you get a good shot. simple.
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tryfound said:
No, your whole post is invalid. I'm testing AUTO, feel free to grace us all with your superior photography skills when you get your M9.
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actually i should have said your tests were pointless and it was a waste of my time to go through them. test the note 4 in low light with manual in m9 that's what you should have done.
I wanted to see manual being used in the low light. You've got no excuses when the camera provides it. If you can't do that then its your problem not the m9.
bad auto does not mean bad camera. bad auto will be fixed. The Z1 took 3 months to get it right. What did people do, the lamers whined whereas the rest got busy with manual and got good shots from day 1.
make up your mind or sell.
---------- Post added at 10:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:19 AM ----------
vegetaleb said:
At last a camera comparison between M9 and Note4 http://www.phonearena.com/reviews/HTC-One-M9-vs-Samsung-Galaxy-Note-4_id3963/page/3
In daylight the Note 4 is significantly better, the M9 will smudge
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Click to collapse
Show me smudge in daylight, i want to see how much. actually link the shots.
In low light even resized to 640x480 the M9 is very blurry and smudgy, the Note 4 is millions years ahead.
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Click to collapse
All the low light shots have the m9 using high iso in guess what auto. The reviewer did not even try manual and blurred one of the shots because he could not hold a 1/7.
Conclusion: unless you want to use your photos only from daylight situations and only resized to Facebook and other social medias (of course no crop at all) . you should consider the Note 4 as a very good choice of camera phone in every situations.
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Click to collapse
Do you realise that to display on a HD device you only need 1MP or on a full HD it only takes 2MP. Anything more than that gets resampled.
You don't let facebook or anybody else resize it you do it yourself then upload wherever.
tryfound said:
You're so full of yourself. How dare I waste your precious time.
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Click to collapse
Look, you're not helping me, i'm helping you to help yourself as well as others in this thread.
Make up my mind or sell? Sell what? Some people here asked to see comparisons with the Note 4 and I gave them.
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And i'm pointing out why there were inadequate. They do not add anything above what reviews are saying.
I did not bother going through the imgur stuff since there are no exifs to see there. Assessing image quality let alone commenting without exifs is pointless.
To suggest that I should be tweaking manual settings on an M9 to achieve the quality of the Note 4's auto shots is beyond comprehension.
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Click to collapse
auto shots are average x average, is this what people base their opinions on ?
manual means you take a test auto shot then see whether you can improve it in manual. That is how you will exceed what the reviews have shown and we get to see the best this camera can do. This is what any owner that wants to improve and exploit manual is going to do over time.
Why someone would not want to improve his shots is beyond my comprehension.
tryfound said:
Some more shots with the M9, large res then small res second. Had to use imgur because of filesize so these are compressed images, don't bother zooming for details, some of the higher res images I took have been reduced to a size smaller than the 'small' res images due to their original filesize, I guess that's imgur's way of compressing.
http://imgur.com/PeWfBMx
http://imgur.com/CNrpmW7
http://imgur.com/fOi00v3
http://imgur.com/dMQ1yXV
http://imgur.com/JmvdebB
http://imgur.com/MnF3Fue
http://imgur.com/2AtDjvr (HDR)
http://imgur.com/mP0g0aP (HDR)
http://imgur.com/NApwPvt
http://imgur.com/U8yHyuV
http://imgur.com/i04j8vr
http://imgur.com/1FPUAw7
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Click to collapse
I just looked at images and they look really good. I am surprised M9 managed to capture that pristine detail I never seen before. White balance too looks so great not like previously green tint that was all over images.
One thing I am not able to find is camera data in adobe bridge and also colour space is untagged. That usually happens when photo being stripped of exif data. Have you by any chance gave some editing to them?
Thanks
I agree with a pack that camera should perform to the best on auto. If it doesn't , software has to be optimised if it's not then it's engineers faults Or hardware limitations.
it applies to the majority of the smartphone photographers . People want point and shoot.Even being enthusiast photographer and love digging my camera and phone camera I hate when auto underperforms when I simply want to take my phone out of the pocket and shoot.Every enthusiast can tweak but that defeats AUTO purpose .
There are average performers good and very good. Unfortunately M9 is not very good.Good ? Maybe....if light is favourable...at the moment it is consistently weak in certain situations. The usual wash out reminded me of the spill that when lets say camera lens gets in the studio shot or outside and for this purpose hood is used . This is one of the speculations I come up with. Somehow HTC phones consistently suffer from that. Could be they have same team of engineers that can't find the key to successful Software optimization or not so decent hardware just guessing here. Being visualphile that particular trade off with HTC devices just kills me.
nebulaoperator said:
I agree with a pack that camera should perform to the best on auto. If it doesn't , software has to be optimised if it's not then it's engineers faults Or hardware limitations.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
.
I've seen this issue with other devices. xperias camera software was never quite ready at launch. Lots of bashing. Took them a few months to get it right. Mostly auto. Then shots come out with lower ISO which you could have got yourself if you tried. Image quality is better now. why ? iso is lower. So if auto is taking high iso then low iso will get you a better shot.
So when people say camera is not working its auto. No other issues i can see so far. They will fix it but in the mean time if manual settings are tweaked you will get the results you want today. Most do not know how to do that or worse do not want to.
it applies to the majority of the smartphone photographers . People want point and shoot.Even being enthusiast photographer and love digging my camera and phone camera I hate when auto underperforms when I simply want to take my phone out of the pocket and shoot.Every enthusiast can tweak but that defeats AUTO purpose .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
General advice i give to people who cant take photos is go with the koreans or apple. if you want more then look at others.
First time i came across an iphone camera after seeing the usual controls in nokias and android was wtf do i do with this. Some shots can't be got with auto. when there is no access to manual then you are stuck. take it or leave it. its only a phone camera, you're not supposed to do anything more. Who said so ?
Many people take shots and figuring out who is at fault is a tricky business. Of course the tendency is to blame the device but the person taking the shot is the most responsible, always.
There are average performers good and very good. Unfortunately M9 is not very good.Good ? Maybe....if light is favourable...at the moment it is consistently weak in certain situations.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Low light with auto. From what i've seen consistently boosts auto up. There are even night modes which to date i've not seen anybody even try. HELLO!
So auto is not picking these modes for some reason. Its a bug. But if you set it yourself then what is the result. Much better i bet.
The usual wash out reminded me of the spill that when lets say camera lens gets in the studio shot or outside and for this purpose hood is used .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A lens hood decreases lens flare and saturates colours. Take a shot in shade of a sunny area. If you're getting lens flare then its clearly user error. Not just with this device but with any. I would just use my hand out of camera to block some of the light or avoid unwanted reflections. Here is a good example
https://www.flickr.com/photos/palmsolo/sets/72157651089646798/with/16274675233/
cloudy day, massive light box in the sky. Colours are all rich. Which is best. i cannot tell
interestingly enough the low end devices suffer less from this problem because the sensors are not as sensitive. They can take good shots in awful bright light which would be washed out with more capable sensors. Not much use indoors though.
This is one of the speculations I come up with. Somehow HTC phones consistently suffer from that. Could be they have same team of engineers that can't find the key to successful Software optimization or not so decent hardware just guessing here. Being visualphile that particular trade off with HTC devices just kills me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The ones typically from what i've seen blow out the sky. They are a little more quirky in getting those blue skies. Overexposed. HDR is one way to do it but it can be tricked also. i remember this work around from the m8 forum where this guy pointed close to the sun to lock exposure and then recomposed back on the scene. The picture was remarkably better. You don't have to do this all the time only in certain situations.
Review on bunch of cameras.
Gizmodo: The Best Smartphone Camera: Samsung Galaxy S6 Edition. http://google.com/newsstand/s/CBIw4ZO08yA
tryfound said:
Some more shots with the M9, large res then small res second. Had to use imgur because of filesize so these are compressed images, don't bother zooming for details, some of the higher res images I took have been reduced to a size smaller than the 'small' res images due to their original filesize, I guess that's imgur's way of compressing.
http://imgur.com/PeWfBMx
http://imgur.com/CNrpmW7
http://imgur.com/fOi00v3
http://imgur.com/dMQ1yXV
http://imgur.com/JmvdebB
http://imgur.com/MnF3Fue
http://imgur.com/2AtDjvr (HDR)
http://imgur.com/mP0g0aP (HDR)
http://imgur.com/NApwPvt
http://imgur.com/U8yHyuV
http://imgur.com/i04j8vr
http://imgur.com/1FPUAw7
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
jauhien said:
Some yesterday snaps here:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/we88grvt72bldy8/4PDA_REQUEST.zip?dl=0
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Click to collapse
One Twelve said:
.
Disclaimer: I should learn how to use quotes.
I've seen this issue with other devices. xperias camera software was never quite ready at launch. Lots of bashing. Took them a few months to get it right. Mostly auto. Then shots come out with lower ISO which you could have got yourself if you tried. Image quality is better now. why ? iso is lower. So if auto is taking high iso then low iso will get you a better shot.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Whether it's ISO OIS or else it does not stop camera to perform well. Take A look at Iphone 6 it works wonders. Low light is not on the par with M7 m8. The thing you have to understand , strongly camera orientated phone should not come with a sticker on the box " want a better image use manual"
[/QUOTE]So when people say camera is not working its auto. No other issues i can see so far. They will fix it but in the mean time if manual settings are tweaked you will get the results you want today. Most do not know how to do that or worse do not want to.[/QUOTE]
A lot people say because AUTO doesn't work. Why would I have buy "they will fix it" if I pay 500-600 GBP for a phone. It doesn't work like that. And in most cases software improved performance but only to a point .I own M7 and know it's weaknesses.And I don't want to use manual though I know my phone from inside to outside.
[/QUOTE]General advice i give to people who cant take photos is go with the koreans or apple. if you want more then look at others.
First time i came across an iphone camera after seeing the usual controls in nokias and android was wtf do i do with this. Some shots can't be got with auto. when there is no access to manual then you are stuck. take it or leave it. its only a phone camera, you're not supposed to do anything more. Who said so ?
Many people take shots and figuring out who is at fault is a tricky business. Of course the tendency is to blame the device but the person taking the shot is the most responsible, always.[/QUOTE]
I saw ifone users don't even know AE/AF lock exist till I showed. Iphone 6 has the simplest UI that can be invented I also call it Dummy proof. I think you can get an app to have access to tweaks option otherwise it's a bit limited to my taste. I can blame phone camera without long hesitation for two reasons: if hardware sucks or software or both. Then no amount of tweaks can help you. M7 is notorious for washouts, poor dynamic range. I found HDR was never a strong suite of M7 neither M8 or M9. However if you can tweak settings you might get away bringing images to photoshop. That's what I do. On the other hand only minority people are enthusiast like we are and the majority should be at least faulted for what smartphone manufacturer didn't do in the first place. If iphone , nokia, samsung(from 2014) proved there is a lot more that can be done with camera.
[/QUOTE]Low light with auto. From what i've seen consistently boosts auto up. There are even night modes which to date i've not seen anybody even try. HELLO!
So auto is not picking these modes for some reason. Its a bug. But if you set it yourself then what is the result. Much better i bet.[/QUOTE]
Low light was nevera weak spot for HTC One line(until now M9) it was cloudy weather condition with little contrast, also situation when I have half frame window in and the other half room. It would go into extremes overexpose the light in the window or underexposedarks barely visible. Sensor and software is not coping with dynamic range. I kind of like night mode but found it to slow in some situation due to the shutter speed so I just used normal mode it did great though. I wish I could try RAW mode but unfortunately I am selling my phone today ( Not sure if RAW will be brought to lollipop for M7)
[/QUOTE]A lens hood decreases lens flare and saturates colours. Take a shot in shade of a sunny area. If you're getting lens flare then its clearly user error. Not just with this device but with any. I would just use my hand out of camera to block some of the light or avoid unwanted reflections. Here is a good example
https://www.flickr.com/photos/palmsolo/sets/72157651089646798/with/16274675233/
cloudy day, massive light box in the sky. Colours are all rich. Which is best. i cannot tell
interestingly enough the low end devices suffer less from this problem because the sensors are not as sensitive. They can take good shots in awful bright light which would be washed out with more capable sensors. Not much use indoors though.[/QUOTE]
I worked with photographer who used hood for the headshots and it was game changer.
For instance Iphone6 is least prone to that error but most Android camera phones I came across are. I was surprised by Note 4 results and S6 I would never think they can do so well. So it must be bug or hardware or both as I mentioned earlier. Nice photos from M9 but WB is somehow a bit off sometimes on the blue side( couple of weeks before it was to yellow green Funny enough you are the first I came across that used hand to block the light I do that too. I guess we both come from the same/similar trade.
[/QUOTE]
The ones typically from what i've seen blow out the sky. They are a little more quirky in getting those blue skies. Overexposed. HDR is one way to do it but it can be tricked also. i remember this work around from the m8 forum where this guy pointed close to the sun to lock exposure and then recomposed back on the scene. The picture was remarkably better. You don't have to do this all the time only in certain situations.[/QUOTE]
AE/AF is a very handy tool. I am glad smartphones have this simple yet very effective feature.
Quadrider10 said:
Review on bunch of cameras.
Gizmodo: The Best Smartphone Camera: Samsung Galaxy S6 Edition. http://google.com/newsstand/s/CBIw4ZO08yA
Click to expand...
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I didn't think the M9 looked bad. Need to use a computer instead of my note 4
Sent from a mobile gadget...
---------- Post added at 05:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:52 PM ----------
And guys, chill out. I don't think M9 will have the best camera, but it will hopefully be enough. What I'm worried about is the speed of the camera and SOT. I will probably buy it anyway because I love HTCs mix.
Sent from a mobile gadget...
You're not helping anyone mate. Pig with lipstick is still a pig. No matter how much spin you are putting on it.
Everything you are saying is your subjective opinion not backed by any reviewer or already debunked. No data at all.
I don't see any fruit in continuing this back and forth "I think" or "you can do this in software" discussion with you. I, and 99% of users, only care about how the product performs out of the box. A few may go further, with manual. That's it.
Lame apologist excuses don't hide that. If you can do x with M9, you can also do better with S6/iP6/N4 etc starting from a better base.
I'll have the M9 31st March. Then, we'll see.
One Twelve said:
Look, you're not helping me, i'm helping you to help yourself as well as others in this thread.
And i'm pointing out why there were inadequate. They do not add anything above what reviews are saying.
I did not bother going through the imgur stuff since there are no exifs to see there. Assessing image quality let alone commenting without exifs is pointless.
auto shots are average x average, is this what people base their opinions on ?
manual means you take a test auto shot then see whether you can improve it in manual. That is how you will exceed what the reviews have shown and we get to see the best this camera can do. This is what any owner that wants to improve and exploit manual is going to do over time.
Why someone would not want to improve his shots is beyond my comprehension.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
One Twelve said:
That pair is not as important as you think it is and that applies for all with good light.
Where this 'trounces' occurs is in low light. I've already said what needs to be done.
with macros yeah i would because there is no difference there. I've seen three year old devices do excellent macros. Hint: macros are not a good demonstration of what the latest camera can do.
The only real innovation we've had in sensors is BSI over the last two years. More sensitive in low light. You couldn't do that with 2013 devices, m7 was the sole exception. The rest is processing, how much of it or lack thereof.
On a more general level the trick with these devices is to know when to compromise and when to be maximalist. There is no perfect device so what you end up with is what you can tolerate over what you cannot do without. Every device has this trade off. Unfortunately you are alone with making this decision. Unless you are lucky to find others whose requirements match yours closely. Now do you see why i said minor. its minor in a larger context.
no tricks. calling it straight.
i don't trust auto.That on some devices its always flawless is a myth. auto goes wrong even on dslrs. what will you do then ? blame the device or your own ignorance. better to understand why and what went wrong and then fix it. and you can.
What i'm sensing here is an unwillingness to do so. That is something else.
That does not make what i said wrong. Its up to people here to provide that data. particularly low light with manual.
Its right because i've seen the same done with numerous devices already. This is how cameras work. They need light.
Give them that and you get a good shot. simple.
---------- Post added at 10:19 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:14 AM ----------
actually i should have said your tests were pointless and it was a waste of my time to go through them. test the note 4 in low light with manual in m9 that's what you should have done.
I wanted to see manual being used in the low light. You've got no excuses when the camera provides it. If you can't do that then its your problem not the m9.
bad auto does not mean bad camera. bad auto will be fixed. The Z1 took 3 months to get it right. What did people do, the lamers whined whereas the rest got busy with manual and got good shots from day 1.
make up your mind or sell.
---------- Post added at 10:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:19 AM ----------
Show me smudge in daylight, i want to see how much. actually link the shots.
All the low light shots have the m9 using high iso in guess what auto. The reviewer did not even try manual and blurred one of the shots because he could not hold a 1/7.
Do you realise that to display on a HD device you only need 1MP or on a full HD it only takes 2MP. Anything more than that gets resampled.
You don't let facebook or anybody else resize it you do it yourself then upload wherever.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sent using Tapatalk
th3 said:
You're not helping anyone mate. Pig with lipstick is still a pig. No matter how much spin you are putting on it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Went right to the end for the punchline
I'll have the M9 31st March. Then, we'll see.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hah so despite the s6 camera 'trouncing' the m9, you actually went in for what ? .....<drum roll>....the M9 <applause>
Confirms what i said earlier, the image quality differences weren't enough to deter you.
Lame apologist excuses don't hide that. If you can do x with M9, you can also do better with S6/iP6/N4 etc starting from a better base.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah so why didn't you get one of them then ? riiiiightt. Why the narrow obsessions with image quality somehow don't pan out in the end. Bigger forces at play.
With ip6+ and 3rd party camera with manual controls. you can improve over stock auto. With the same on the iP6 or even iP5x and a steady hand you can come close if not match the plus.
S6 & N4 or even the G3 don't offer shutter speed control so there is no way to tell how effective their OIS is, its just stated and i believe its there but no way to tell like say with the iP6+ that can do a 1/4 handheld. Night mode on the recent samsungs is good. Much improved over earlier versions. They boosting sensor gain and fiddling around. To get a similar shot would require an exposure two times longer with other devices including the m9. So you will have to work at it.
No idea when raw support will come for the above. But i bet you get it on the m9 before them. Your details issues will disappear at that point but you have to process each image yourself.
Everything you are saying is your subjective opinion not backed by any reviewer or already debunked. No data at all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So you do not understand that delaying shutter and lowering iso will improve image quality in low light ? This applies only with stationary subjects btw, forget doing it with people or anything that won't sit still.
Sop with any camera that allows manual control, i can show you manual lumia 930 vs note 4 where it gets pretty close and auto did not. When more people post later you'll see what i mean.
I'm most interested in the low light shots and rarely bother with daylight comparisons because they are pretty similar. In fact my problem with smartphone cameras is too much detail strange as that may sound. because it makes isolating subjects harder. Everything is so damn clear. Because its the equivalent of an f11 lens in 35mm speak. Depth of field is deeper. Great for macros but not others.
I don't see any fruit in continuing this back and forth "I think" or "you can do this in software" discussion with you. I, and 99% of users, only care about how the product performs out of the box. A few may go further, with manual. That's it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you want better photos what i said works. 99% or not is meaningless. This is xda, do 99 % care about rooting, custom firmwares, or any number of hacks people share here ? So what 99% are you referring to and why do they matter. If anything i'm more interested in the 1%.
what i've said wrt to manual is no different. In fact its common knowledge to anyone who has a clue.
---------- Post added at 04:32 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:01 AM ----------
*Emix* said:
https://curved.de/news/galaxy-s6-one-m9-iphone-6-im-grossen-kameravergleich-236192
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Why they didn't use iP6+ ?
1. night shots all soft because iso got boosted on m9. 2nd shot wrong wb for m9. 4th shot all have blown lights, cannot do this without blending.
2. again iso got boosted on m9. second selfie, because background is brighter so iso drops and looks normal.
3. is about where you set exposure.
4. macros are similar. contrast can be improved in post.
5. panoramas, heh all not to my liking because of cylindrical projection. no straight horizontals with such a wide fov.
6. food, can be improved in post or use manual. That ISO is maybe close to 600 try to get it at half.
curiousgeorge1893 said:
Not quite on topic but I've got an M8 coming, I'm ditching my Xperia Z2 for it, is that a good idea do you think?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What is it about the Z2 that you don't like ? You'd be trading fantastic video stabilisation for none.
The scene modes should help in low light if you use them right. However the lack of shutter control can be frustrating. A quick tweak can't be done. More trial & error.
I was put off by the 4MP camera as i admit I like to zoom and crop, however I like a phone that is good in lowlight.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What does 4MP do ? sharpens the mind. You have to think more carefully about what you want to get it right. If you want to zoom & crop then you need to be closer to your subject. if you can't do that then 4MP is out.
Also, I like a phone that offers manual controls and shutter speed, HTC phones are the only ones that do this plus a like a phone that has a good flash and takes photos quickly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
m8 is a fast shooter in auto. But this gap has been closed with the S6 and the S5 is fast too. Have you considered them ? No shutter control though. Given what they've done may or may not be that critical. These samsungs are primarily auto shooters. If they get what you want great, if not don't complain because you can't do much.
As for similar manual controls the hybrid zooms had them first and optical zoom is a plus. crop in camera not afterwards. K zoom or wait for the successor. Slower though. And apertures are smaller. 3.1 all the way to 6.3. Working OIS.
I was planning on getting a secondhand M9 later in the year but to be honest I am disappointed as I feel that HTC have go fowards then 2 steps backwards with the M9 camera. Whilst it's great it has a higher resolution, the f/2.0 aperature in the M7 and M8 is now f/2.2 on the M9, in my opinion it should have been f/2.0 or f/1.9, also lack of OIS is disappointing and it seems lowlight on the M9 isn't as good as the M8? Very disappointing if so.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The difference between f2.0 and 2.2 is a quarter a f-stop. That's like getting a shot at ISO 200 instead of 250. Or 1/50 instead of 1/40. Its insignficant as one or the other parameter will compensate anyway so not really as notable as reviewers make out.
However the m9 isn't as fast a camera as its predecessors.See the camera speed benchmark. Almost twice as slow as the m8. And the Z2 is faster than the m9. Does this matter ? only if you're rushed. And if you are you're not going to get very good shots to begin with. Is the choice no shot or passable. In that case look at an advanced compact with a 1 inch sensor. Much more light, faster lens and better quality. For the same money.
BoneXDA said:
I do notice the white balance shifting sometimes on the goldish side around sunlit areas, and the M9 tends to underexpose in such conditions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've noticed twice that it gets confused with halogen and neon lights, turning cream and red into green. With a yellow i can see how green can happen by wb adding blue, so just need to use a fluorescent wb or more. But cream into green is inexplicable for me. If its a bug then only a firmware update can fix it.
---------- Post added at 08:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:25 PM ----------
curiousgeorge1893 said:
I like the Z2 but not the post processing, it smudges details, I read on here that the Z3 does the same?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Whenever camera has to produce a jpg and do it fast it has to make a call between preserving detail (ie more noise) or smoothness (less noise). I've seen smudging happen with vegetation, it happens with all jpg outputting devices to varying degrees. To make larger features look good means smaller are going to appear less sharp. Must have the lowest ISO with a longer shutter that means anything that moves is out unless light is good or smudging gets worse.
Only way is raw but you have to process every image yourself, and its a much bigger file so it will be slower than 4mp jpg.
Compare these two from nexus 5. Jpg vs processed RAW. Pull the full resolution and pixel peep all you want.
The originals come from fv5 site.
You control what should be more in detail or not instead of some average one size fits all algorithm with an impossible task that is optimised for speed by trading off image quality. Image quality here isn't file size but a function of how much luminance and chroma noise is preserved or not.
That algorithm and its implementation is the source of lots of heated argument over which is the better camera. Silly really.
SPreston2001 said:
The whole camera comparison may be silly, but 90% of users just want to pick up the phone and snap good pics. Most users don't fiddle around with the camera settings or even know what they do for that matter lol. All they see are which photos look the best when they pick up their phone and take a pic. The M9 camera seems to be alot better than the M8s camera but it still tends to fall behind Apples and Samsungs imaging abilities.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then those people should stick with the brands mentioned. Those brands are for people with no interest in photography. WHAT took the shot is more important than WHO took it. That is the mindset auto everything encourages, what did the owner do, just press a button. Still I would not be surprised to find people even on those boards complaining about something or the other.
Where i'm coming from is what if you don't want those brands for whatever reasons. What then ?
You wait for firmware upgrades and you learn how to get better shots. What went wrong and how to get around it.
My attitude is you are stuck with this thing and you are going to have to make the best of it. Few months later you will find people here doing just that. A review can never match it.
One Twelve said:
Then those people should stick with the brands mentioned. Those brands are for people with no interest in photography. WHAT took the shot is more important than WHO took it. That is the mindset auto everything encourages, what did the owner do, just press a button. Still I would not be surprised to find people even on those boards complaining about something or the other.
Where i'm coming from is what if you don't want those brands for whatever reasons. What then ?
You wait for firmware upgrades and you learn how to get better shots. What went wrong and how to get around it.
My attitude is you are stuck with this thing and you are going to have to make the best of it. Few months later you will find people here doing just that. A review can never match it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So HTC phones are for people who have interest in photography?? Lol they usually have the worst cameras amongst flagship devices yet theyre for photography minded people?? You act as of HTC is the only manufacturer that has the ability to tweak the camera settings. Most "serious" photographers won't use a cellphone to take a pic. The whole idea of cell cams is to capture quick and beautiful everyday life pictures. The ability to tweak the settings is just a added bonus for those who want to get a little more serious with it.
But to each his own I guess. When it comes to cell cams I just wanna pull it, out take a pic, and expect it to look good. If tweaking the settings to get the perfect shot is for you then that's fine. But all I'm saying is those same things can be done with other manufacturers cams too.
gavinfabl said:
This is a photos thread. We need photos! The weather for another day is gales and heavy rain here, so ruined my planned day of shooting again. Using manual settings I have captured some good shots (but private photos of family). Lowering resolution down a fraction helps in lower light. Auto is OK but when I take control even with a single tweak the difference is noticeable. I've used the S6 and S6 Edge and compared it with my Note 4. The S6 has a good auto mode.
This is my S6 and S6 Edge camera shots , and vs Note 4 camera. http://gavinsgadgets.com/2015/03/19...sung-galaxy-s6-and-s6-edge-plus-camera-shots/
I will have more in depth analysis when it's stops raining .....
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Can't say my experience with the s6 / edge was similar. On the camera front yes the camera is fast. But I found a huge issue with white balance and somewhat heavier than normal post processing (pretty evident when you look at the photos on a camera). The problem is even in pro mode, the camera still struggles with white balance. I am a white balance whore to be honest and when I see a camera struggle, I shudder.
Touchwiz lagged for me. Immensely. I kept flicking through the homescreen, not many widgets above the stock ones, and there were multiple times the device just locked up. Even after rebooting the device quite a few times, there was lag. Off topic, I watched the verge podcast recently and they also affirmed a lot of the lag I experienced with my model.
So far, I'm semi disappointed. The devices are light (like physically, I expected something much heavier). The GS6 felt boxy and somewhat sharper for my tastes while the Edge just "fit" in my hand like a really nice glove. I was stunned that the edge was the more interesting feeling device. Both devices are fingerprint magnets though almost to the point of being disgusting. After 10 minutes of handling, I was in awe with the amount of smudges and oil the back of the device accrued from general handling.
Handling is something that the Edge excels in for the most part. It feels "natural" to swipe at an edge point and get a hamburg menu from Google. And you do in GMAIL, Google Play, and a myriad of other areas. It just feels like touchwiz didn't necessarily provide too many gesture driven tasks that would really take benefit of the edge display. II mean sure you get the call context menus and the light up gimmick, but that's about it sadly. The shame of it all is that above that, the GS6 is a beautiful iphone 5-5s ripoff and the Edge is something of a quagmire begging for a developer to put it to good use. It can be obtrusive but not so much to the point it ruins the user experience.
Overall, I'm left somewhat underwhelmed with the devices. Sure, the screen is gorgeous with marvelous viewing angle fitting for a flagship. But it feels like the GS6 / edge is a iterative step in a unique and bold direction that didn't fully deliver.
Shame actually. Most people will love the GS6 / Edge. Me, I'll be forever disappoint
SPreston2001 said:
So HTC phones are for people who have interest in photography??
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What purpose is there to provide manual controls then ? nokia started this btw.
Lol they usually have the worst cameras amongst flagship devices yet theyre for photography minded people??
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its a mindset that comes naturally to those that are into photography. They are going to try a great deal more before throwing in the towel.
Very obvious when i see Jesse's photos. You make the shot not the camera. newbies whenever they see a nice photo always want to know what camera took the shot. The person, well he just clicked. How hard could it be. They like to hide behind their cameras. Often i see shots that are horribly taken and well it was the camera's fault.
HTC is a bad camera with people who cannot take a photo. I've never bought into the 4MP was bad. A full HD screen can only display 2MP anyway. if you're not zooming or need to then you're focus is on how nice the shot looks rather than whether you can count hairs on somebody's head. I've seen people post nice photos here. if you need to crop your photos then you ain't thinking about your shots or your use case exceeds what 4MP can provide.
You act as of HTC is the only manufacturer that has the ability to tweak the camera settings.
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lets be clear on what manual settings i'm referring to here. Who else offers shutter speed control ?
apple only woke up to the fact in their latest OS. prior to which you could do squat cos um turtle neck deemed it unecessary. Nokia had them early and the cheapest lumias 635 ? do too. samsungs don't not even in their latest. neither does moto, or LG which went backwards with the G3 or Sony. The Chinese provide some more. So yeah HTC since the m8 was the only android offering on a fixed focal lens that offered shutter control. Makes it easy to fix things if you were so inclined. Samsung's galaxy camera is the only other that can claim to have had it first on android earlier and its a compact.
Most "serious" photographers won't use a cellphone to take a pic. The whole idea of cell cams is to capture quick and beautiful everyday life pictures. The ability to tweak the settings is just a added bonus for those who want to get a little more serious with it.
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A cam is a cam and you can learn photography with any cam and play more with one that allows manual settings. I don't have a DSLR because i've not got to the point where i need one. I take shots every day and i like to tweak them because auto cant get it right. Its very normal to have access if not always necessary. But i'd rather have them and not need them than the other way around.
If you drive a stick shift you won't enjoy driving a cruiser.
But to each his own I guess. When it comes to cell cams I just wanna pull it, out take a pic, and expect it to look good. If tweaking the settings to get the perfect shot is for you then that's fine. But all I'm saying is those same things can be done with other manufacturers cams too.
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I never expect it to look good, if it does then conditions were perfect and i was lucky, i will usually take a auto shot and if it fine leave it at that or try to tweak things about and take a couple more. I always try to take more than one. A phone is going to get thrown into so many varied situations that would challenge a pro. To expect to get it right in one take with a phone camera when pointing at anything you can think of isn't realistic.
nebulaoperator said:
Whether it's ISO OIS or else it does not stop camera to perform well. Take A look at Iphone 6 it works wonders. Low light is not on the par with M7 m8. The thing you have to understand , strongly camera orientated phone should not come with a sticker on the box " want a better image use manual"
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A tweak here or there will always improve a shot. How many people know that. Then there is the question of will. if its there and you don't use it then its not the camera's fault. It is there for flexibility.
iphone 6 no, but 6+ will get shots at 1/4. Apple thinks slower than 1/12 is not feasible for iP6. To go slower than 1/4 have to use 3rd party soft to tweak things. iphone camera has always been capable but until ios8 there was no way to access camera parameters so low light was never good.
I saw ifone users don't even know AE/AF lock exist till I showed. Iphone 6 has the simplest UI that can be invented I also call it Dummy proof. I think you can get an app to have access to tweaks option otherwise it's a bit limited to my taste.
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yes its useful there is also a way to do some exposure comp but it changes metering to spot from average or whatever apple equivalent is. A review was comparing 6 & 6+ and saying photos looked better with 6+ until i saw the exifs and pointed out both were using different metering. So of course shots will look different.
With the latest ios you have much more options than before. Curious apple did a u turn there. But not stock just with 3rd party software.
A lot people say because AUTO doesn't work. Why would I have buy "they will fix it" if I pay 500-600 GBP for a phone. It doesn't work like that. And in most cases software improved performance but only to a point .
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So wait for a few months then decide. As for firmware improvements. If you take a shot with firmware a at ISO 200 and compare with firmware b at ISO 200, there will be little difference.
What i mean is they can lower ISO for lower light shots so it does not boost it so high. This will improve auto some. But to go further it requires manual. Possible now, if somebody would try.
They can improve white balance with auto but it will get tricked some times so only up to a point.
I can blame phone camera without long hesitation for two reasons: if hardware sucks or software or both. Then no amount of tweaks can help you. M7 is notorious for washouts, poor dynamic range. I found HDR was never a strong suite of M7 neither M8 or M9. However if you can tweak settings you might get away bringing images to photoshop. That's what I do. On the other hand only minority people are enthusiast like we are and the majority should be at least faulted for what smartphone manufacturer didn't do in the first place. If iphone , nokia, samsung(from 2014) proved there is a lot more that can be done with camera.
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They are trying to make it easy for the average person in the hope of selling more products. The traditional way is to learn how to use the product. I know the washouts you mean, blown skies etc. But once a person is aware of that you can improve it.
Low light was nevera weak spot for HTC One line(until now M9) it was cloudy weather condition with little contrast, also situation when I have half frame window in and the other half room. It would go into extremes overexpose the light in the window or underexposedarks barely visible. Sensor and software is not coping with dynamic range. I kind of like night mode but found it to slow in some situation due to the shutter speed so I just used normal mode it did great though. I wish I could try RAW mode but unfortunately I am selling my phone today ( Not sure if RAW will be brought to lollipop for M7)
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So what are you getting ?
freedcam can already output raw on m7 & m8 and by the looks of it m9 too. htc made this easy.
I worked with photographer who used hood for the headshots and it was game changer.
For instance Iphone6 is least prone to that error but most Android camera phones I came across are. I was surprised by Note 4 results and S6 I would never think they can do so well. So it must be bug or hardware or both as I mentioned earlier. Nice photos from M9 but WB is somehow a bit off sometimes on the blue side( couple of weeks before it was to yellow green Funny enough you are the first I came across that used hand to block the light I do that too. I guess we both come from the same/similar trade.
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It was an accidental discovery. I was taking shot of somebody outside the house from inside with a tab (!) and wondered why the clothes were so saturated.
There is something up with the m9's WB i can see from numerous photos. But nobody is trying manual to fix it.
Was looking at latest world press photo contest. Many with pro dslrs and i saw one person entered an iphone photo and its in the list of winners. Out of 95k entries !!! smartphone photo..Can you believe it
Lol this thread is very entertaining to say the least
twoeleven99 said:
Lol this thread is very entertaining to say the least
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So what's your take on the M9 pictures, if I may ask?
Sent using Tapatalk
Here's some shots taken with a 3rd party app called Snap Camera. Enjoy!
Hmm limited file size attachments. Here are links to the originals!
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bx_9X4Ugo_yaUWZvek1BM1R0TUU/view?usp=drivesdk
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bx_9X4Ugo_yaMkx3VnFDYkoyYXM/view?usp=drivesdk
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bx_9X4Ugo_yaTGgxTVU4QXVGWjA/view?usp=drivesdk
I put Google camera and open camera on mine and while they seem better both are somewhat slow to auto focus and snap oic. For a camera on phone to me that quick snap is important. May try the one you mentioned to see if better.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-T817A using XDA Free mobile app
SWBgHz said:
I put Google camera and open camera on mine and while they seem better both are somewhat slow to auto focus and snap oic. For a camera on phone to me that quick snap is important. May try the one you mentioned to see if better.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-T817A using XDA Free mobile app
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It has zero shutter lag, instant photos, really recommend it. Let me know if you want my settings! I'm not 100% sure but It may be a paid app, i think i'd purchased it sometime in the past.
Edit - Tried Open Camera - not very good output, couldn't get Google Camera to work for some reason.. Snap Camera is definitely the best I've seen so far.
Paulrgod,
Thank you so much for this post. What a difference snap makes. No focus breathing and stabilization built in. Huge win as the camera is so important to me as it is my daily picture taker for my family and the biggest concern for this phone...but not any more.
Thanks again!
No problem, happy to help.
I took some photos of my son playing in the living room the other day and it was awful, unacceptable quality really.
So I decided to see if any other apps would make a difference. The quality of the photos I posted above were better quality than comparison shots I took on my Note 5!
Still struggling in low light a bit though, but I've found keeping the ISO in check, set at 400 / 800 the shots are acceptable, but can be difficult getting it to take the shot.
Those shots are extremely noisy, lacking detail and soft ... they just feature heavy post processing (by the app) to make it more attractive to the average punter - saturation, contrast and smoothing. The camera absolutely isn't capable. In fact, many phones of similar price have better selfie sensors than this phone does main camera ...
Well someone's a bit grumpy. Did you click the links to see the full versions? The attachments in the first post are poor due to size rrestrictions. I'm quite happy with them actually.
They came out better than compatible shots taken at the same time on my Note 5.
Kinda hilarious that an app can do a better job than the phone manufacturer's own software.
I tried Snap camera too, but A Better Camera does better in terms of instant focus, or just it seemed to me
3rd party cams also do better in WB and details.
The camera is absolutely horrendous.
I felt like I went back in time to 2009
I've been using the Samsung Note since it first launched.
The note 5 camera is excellent
The mi mix is profusely bad
CorruptedSanity said:
The camera is absolutely horrendous.
I felt like I went back in time to 2009
I've been using the Samsung Note since it first launched.
The note 5 camera is excellent
The mi mix is profusely bad
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It's a matter of perspective. I too ha a note 5 and yes, it's one of the best phone camera's, as well documented through the year the note 5 has been on the market. So, by that logic, nearly every other phone camera will be disappointing.
However, from my unscientific observation of the note 5, Mi Max (not Mi Mix) and Lenovo Phab 2 Pro, the Mix is better than the Max or Phab 2 Pro. Focus and processing is faster and moving targets can be captured with some resemblance to the image photographed.
Could be the SOC (Max and P2P are SD 652 while Mix is SD 821).
I am enjoying the phone, even though the camera is less than really good. I'm willing to trade the 6.4 inch screen and condensed body for the lesser camera.
Just one man's perspective.
audscott said:
It's a matter of perspective. I too ha a note 5 and yes, it's one of the best phone camera's, as well documented through the year the note 5 has been on the market. So, by that logic, nearly every other phone camera will be disappointing.
However, from my unscientific observation of the note 5, Mi Max (not Mi Mix) and Lenovo Phab 2 Pro, the Mix is better than the Max or Phab 2 Pro. Focus and processing is faster and moving targets can be captured with some resemblance to the image photographed.
Could be the SOC (Max and P2P are SD 652 while Mix is SD 821).
I am enjoying the phone, even though the camera is less than really good. I'm willing to trade the 6.4 inch screen and condensed body for the lesser camera.
Just one man's perspective.
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Couldn't agree more on the bolded part as an owner of the Note 5 and returned the Phab 2 Pro after less than a week of ownership. Phab 2 Pro could of been a nice phone if they didn't cut corners in certain areas. Then again its all subjective to ones opinion.
Regarding the camera, wished it was as good as Samsung phones but I've used the 6.4" screen more than I've taken pictures so I'm ok with the traded of.
Do you know if this 3rd parry camera is actually capturing a photo and processing it? Or just basically screenshoting the image on the screen like SnapChat does...
Also does it have HDR?
VeryCoolAlan said:
Do you know if this 3rd parry camera is actually capturing a photo and processing it? Or just basically screenshoting the image on the screen like SnapChat does...
Also does it have HDR?
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Definitely Capturing and processing the image. Yes it does HDR - of which you can customise a hell of a lot - exposure values, delays between shots etc..
I've never seen a camera app with as many settings as this actually.
I do photography as a serious hobby.
Mix camera has its strength and weakness. (Native app)
The colour balance is quite accurate most of the time but it definitely love to over saturate.
The auto focus is snappy enough.
The auto exposure is surprisingly good as well.
The low light is terrible but ALL phone sucks at it.
HDR works and they keep the effect to the lower end which I like. While pixel has super good HDR results, sometimes the effect is way over used.
I really like the sharpening level they choose. It feel just right (More on the soft side)
Overall I would say the biggest flaw is that it's unreliable. Occasionally the colours are just way over saturated, but hey that's why I have a camera
To anyone that is rooted and has enabled the Camera2 API (adding persist.camera.HAL3.enabled=1 to build.prop), give ProShot by Rise Up Games a try. Manual Camera by Geeky Devs Studio doesn't work when I mess with the shutter speed or ISO setting but ProShot does. Now both of these are paid but I'm sure you have Play Reward credit spare
I waited for MIUI 9 to see if it would bring an improvement in the camera application but now that I have it, I don't see any improvement. So I decided for now to use Snap Camera. Can someone tell me what would be the best settings to use Snap Camera in the MIX?
Is the Snap Camera app, better then the Google Camera app downloaded from the Oneplus 5 thread?
This camera is just so bad in low light. Any fixes? I upgraded from a M8 but damn the camera is so far behind.
Bad how? I think it's good, if you hold it steady. It doesn't have OIS which is a shame, but the sensor seems particularly good and it has a wide aperture lens.
OpTune said:
This camera is just so bad in low light. Any fixes? I upgraded from a M8 but damn the camera is so far behind.
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Every review mentioned low light performance as one of the only 'Cons.'
OpTune said:
This camera is just so bad in low light. Any fixes? I upgraded from a M8 but damn the camera is so far behind.
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Yes, there is a fix.
Turn lights on, or pick a well lit scenario.
Jokes aside, it's just how this camera is. The sensor is bad in low light situations, as I guess it enjoys turning the ISO way high, and while a lower ISO would probably give you better pics, it would turn out blurred because the sensor is not mechanically stabilized.
It's not too bad, but shooting in auto mode tends to bump up the iso, which results in a noisy photo. I usually switch to manual mode, keep the iso around 400 and adjust shutter time according to the situation. It's maximum 1/3 of a second, so you shouldn't have too much trouble holding it still for that long.
Photos come out more detailed and sharper that way. Much better than in auto mode.
Also coming from the m8.. camera quality and detail really suck in comparison. Especially detail.
Considering this is the same camera as the Galaxy s7... Motorola could have done a lot more with the firmware.
Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk
Ok, now I agree...
I'm actually very upset at how bad the camera sucks, it's quite upsetting. After reading about what sensor it has, it's actually quite shocking how really bad this phone's camera is.
I was getting better pictures on my Oneplus One that was over three years old when the Moto G5 Plus came out, there simply is no reasonable excuse for performance this poor.
I think I'll want to never buy another Moto/Lenovo product again, unless they do something to remedy this situation.
critofur said:
I'm actually very upset at how bad the camera sucks, it's quite upsetting. After reading about what sensor it has, it's actually quite shocking how really bad this phone's camera is.
I was getting better pictures on my Oneplus One that was over three years old when the Moto G5 Plus came out, there simply is no reasonable excuse for performance this poor.
I think I'll want to never buy another Moto/Lenovo product again, unless they do something to remedy this situation.
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If you root your phone and enable camera 2 api you will see drastic improvement.. But currently if you root you will loose access of Stock OTA..
Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk
critofur said:
I think I'll want to never buy another Moto/Lenovo product again, unless they do something to remedy this situation.
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They wont, you have a mid range phone that is only going to get one major update, lets be honest if you wanted better you should have bought another flagship.
---------- Post added at 10:17 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:13 AM ----------
OpTune said:
This camera is just so bad in low light. Any fixes? I upgraded from a M8 but damn the camera is so far behind.
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The M8 had a sensor with large pixels and a low pixel count specifically to perform better in low light.
It's a shame that no one buys products and reviews them for the community, so they can make an informed decision on the pros and cons of a particular product before spending a bunch of money on them...
Well, my experience has been totally opposite, this thing has probably the best low light camera along with top dogs like s7/8 u11, pixel.
although it requires moded libs for it.
My experience is that the low light on mine is comparable to my m8 the color is poor but after color correction they come out decent.
kraatus90 said:
Well, my experience has been totally opposite, this thing has probably the best low light camera along with top dogs like s7/8 u11, pixel.
although it requires moded libs for it.
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You're joking, right? Swapping in hacked libs that make your phone take crappy 2MP photos in exchange for "software enhanced" photos is not putting it on par with the S6/7 lol
mikeyinid said:
You're joking, right? Swapping in hacked libs that make your phone take crappy 2MP photos in exchange for "software enhanced" photos is not putting it on par with the S6/7 lol
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No i'm not talking about 2mp photos but full 12mp.
Ofc it's not going to give you 100% same results cuz there are still some hardware is lacking like OIS. but you haven't paid 100% same price either.
so you gotta consider that too .
I think it's something to do with the image processing. The Snapdragon 625 has pretty decent low light image processing but I don't think it's as good compared to something like the sd 820, 821 or even 835.