Database Users

FAQ: Why You Shouldn’t Be Using a Task Killer with Android (geekfor.me)

Here's an article posted at http://geekfor.me that is by far the best explanation I've ever seen on this issue:
flipz: said:
FAQ: Why You Shouldn’t Be Using a Task Killer with Android
I see this come up over and over again. People saying that a task is running in the background and they think it is killing their battery or hogging all of their memory. So their natural reaction is to download a program made to kill tasks. Here’s the thing… you are likely doing more harm than good by killing tasks that aren’t ready to end. I was the same way when I first got my CDMA Hero. There were tons of things running that I didn’t want so I just kept killing them. After a few weeks I realized that if I stopped using a task killer (and totally uninstalled it in fact) my phone actually began to run better! The applications would close themselves and things just seemed to be running better. I get that there may be short term benefits from clearing a task, but you should still take the time to read through this.
Here is some information directly from Android’s developer page. I have put the important parts in bold. This is quite a lengthy read but honestly I think it’s important. If you want the full read then you can check out the dev page here. If you just want the quick TL;DNR version then scroll to the bottom.
Google: said:
By default, every application runs in its own Linux process. Android starts the process when any of the application's code needs to be executed, and shuts down the process when it's no longer needed and system resources are required by other applications.
A content provider is active only while it's responding to a request from a ContentResolver. And a broadcast receiver is active only while it's responding to a broadcast message. So there's no need to explicitly shut down these components.
Activities, on the other hand, provide the user interface. They're in a long-running conversation with the user and may remain active, even when idle, as long as the conversation continues. Similarly, services may also remain running for a long time. So Android has methods to shut down activities and services in an orderly way:
An activity can be shut down by calling its finish() method. One activity can shut down another activity (one it started with startActivityForResult()) by calling finishActivity().
A service can be stopped by calling its stopSelf() method, or by calling Context.stopService().
Components might also be shut down by the system when they are no longer being used or when Android must reclaim memory for more active components.
If the user leaves a task for a long time, the system clears the task of all activities except the root activity. When the user returns to the task again, it's as the user left it, except that only the initial activity is present. The idea is that, after a time, users will likely have abandoned what they were doing before and are returning to the task to begin something new.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Google: said:
Activity lifecycle
An activity has essentially three states:
It is active or running when it is in the foreground of the screen (at the top of the activity stack for the current task). This is the activity that is the focus for the user's actions.
It is paused if it has lost focus but is still visible to the user. That is, another activity lies on top of it and that activity either is transparent or doesn't cover the full screen, so some of the paused activity can show through. A paused activity is completely alive (it maintains all state and member information and remains attached to the window manager), but can be killed by the system in extreme low memory situations.
It is stopped if it is completely obscured by another activity. It still retains all state and member information. However, it is no longer visible to the user so its window is hidden and it will often be killed by the system when memory is needed elsewhere.
If an activity is paused or stopped, the system can drop it from memory either by asking it to finish (calling its finish() method), or simply killing its process. When it is displayed again to the user, it must be completely restarted and restored to its previous state.
The foreground lifetime of an activity happens between a call to onResume() until a corresponding call to onPause(). During this time, the activity is in front of all other activities on screen and is interacting with the user. An activity can frequently transition between the resumed and paused states - for example, onPause() is called when the device goes to sleep or when a new activity is started, onResume() is called when an activity result or a new intent is delivered. Therefore, the code in these two methods should be fairly lightweight.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The following diagram illustrates these loops and the paths an activity may take between states. The colored ovals are major states the activity can be in. The square rectangles represent the callback methods you can implement to perform operations when the activity transitions between states.
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
So… the TL;DNR Version:
Android is hard coded to automatically kill a task when more memory is needed.
Android is hard coded to automatically kill a task when it's done doing what it needs to do.
Android is hard coded to automatically kill a task when you haven't returned to it in a long time.
Most services (while possibly running in the background) use very little memory when not actively doing something.
A content provider is only doing something when there is a notification for it to give. Otherwise it uses very little memory.
Killing a process when it isn't ready only causes it to have to reload itself and start from scratch when it's needed again.
Because a task is likely running in the background for a reason, killing it will only cause it to re-spawn as soon as the activity that was using it looks for it again. And it will just have to start over again.
Killing certain processes can have undesirable side effects. Not receiving text messages, alarms not going off, and force closes just to name a few.
The only true way to prevent something from running at all on your phone would be to uninstall the .apk.
Most applications will exit themselves if you get out of it by hitting "back" until it closes rather than hitting the "home" button. But even with hitting home, Android will eventually kill it once it's been in the background for a while.
Questions? Concerns? Feel that I’m wrong? Comment below and let’s discuss!
Addendum:
One thing that I forgot to even address here is that memory works a bit differently in linux than it does in Windows. In general the way memory works is you really only need as much as you plan on using. So if your combined running programs use 100mb of memory, 150mb is more than enough. There is no need to clear what's running in memory before you hit that 150mb cap. Now in Windows it seems that the system performs a bit better when you have less stuff in memory, even if it's not full. No doubt those who have been on computers for a while will remember there used to be programs that could clear your memory in Windows also.
Linux however isn't generally affected by this. While I admit that I don't know the architecture and reason for this& linux will run the same regardless of if you have 20mb free memory or 200mb. And as I outlined above, Android will automatically start to kill applications if you do get low on memory! Stealing a quote from Chris Johnston, Buffers and cache in RAM being cleared is silly. Imagine a professor, who rather than writing all the way across the chalkboard, finishes a sentence and immediately erases and starts writing in the upper left corner AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN OR imagine you like a song. You record it to the beginning of a cassette tape. When you want a new song, do you re-record over the first song or record after it?"
I have also seen people incorrectly assume that the more memory in use, the faster their battery will die. This would actually be more attributed to the amount of processor cycles (CPU %) going on and not the amount of memory being taken up by a certain program. However, that does lead to a good point! When can a task manager be a good thing?? To help you determine what IS slowing down your phone; what may actually be draining your battery faster. That is actually what helped us discover that there appears to be a bug still left over from 1.5 that is causing slow downs on our CDMA Hero's even today. While an item using up memory isn't going to hurt things, an item chewing through your CPU absolutely will. Now I still don't suggest using a task killer to kill a program that is using up your processor (unless of course it is a zombie process that is going crazy, but you should probably just reboot in that case). But it can help you see what's going on with your phone.
I hope this has helped someone. With all of that said& I always encourage experimenting. It is your phone, and you can do with it what you please. If you swear that a task killer makes your phone amazing, then by all means use it! Thanks for reading.​
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Another great resource:
A video from Google's Android Team:
Androidology - Part 2 of 3 - Application Lifecycle
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITfRuRkf2TM​
And finally:
Check out the application "Task Manager". You'll notice dozens of processes running that you didn't even know were running. Here's my phone right now:
Look at the CPU usage column (the rightmost column) and notice that almost everything is at 0%. (The exception is TaskManager which is constantly polling since it's the active app. Menu -> Quit stops it.)
This is the best visualization that killing "running" apps will do nothing, since they're not really doing anything anyway. I have all these apps open yet they're all using 0% CPU. And I have "only" 47 MB free.
From monitoring this over the weeks, I've had as many as 60+ processes listed, and as few as 10. I've had as high as 200+ MB free and as low as 30 MB.
And my phone ran just the same. ​
Get rid of all your task killers for a week (and get WatchDog instead) and see how your phone feels.
Hope this helps clear up any confusion.
.

Paul is always great for good information. Everyone should look over his comment's to learn new things
Got a question though, with certain apps like Music and SIPagent there's not a way to close them. I can only pause music and there's no way to exit SIPagent without using a task killer. Shouldn't I use a task killer on these two applications?

ap3604 said:
Paul is always great for good information. Everyone should look over his comment's to learn new things
Got a question though, with certain apps like Music and SIPagent there's not a way to close them. I can only pause music and there's no way to exit SIPagent without using a task killer. Shouldn't I use a task killer on these two applications?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that's a good question; some apps doesn't have that quit button, like the Skyfire browser, so if i were to use the browser and close it, will still be running in the background? shouldn't i have to kill that app somehow?
anyway, will remove task killers now and give it a shot

Great thread as always, Paul, but which "Task Manager" are you talking about?
http://www.appbrain.com/search?q=task+manager
There are quite a few
I don't use a task manager, but I *have* used SeePU++'s task kill feature a couple times.
I think I found it:
http://www.appbrain.com/app/com.houmiak.taskmanager
And if you guys don't believe Paul:

jblazea50 said:
that's a good question; some apps doesn't have that quit button, like the Skyfire browser, so if i were to use the browser and close it, will still be running in the background? shouldn't i have to kill that app somehow?
anyway, will remove task killers now and give it a shot
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They all work the same way as described in the post. You don't have to quite Skyfire, the Music app, SIPagent, or anything at all. Read through the post again, the Android OS will stop those when it needs memory.
For example, if Music is playing, it asks the Android system to consider it foreground, so it will never get forced to quit. But when music is paused it just runs as a normal app. When Android needs the memory, it force quits it immediately.
Same with Skyfire, it will remain loaded in the background if no other process needs the memory. This way if you leave and go back to it quickly it will be there, and won't have to reload. When something else needs the memory Android closes Skyfire. If you force it to close all the time, you only force it to load more often when you need it again, wasting time and battery life.

So how do I get more ram?

muncheese said:
So how do I get more ram?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You don't. Applications will be closed automatically by the OS when you need more RAM.

Clarkster said:
They all work the same way as described in the post. You don't have to quite Skyfire, the Music app, SIPagent, or anything at all. Read through the post again, the Android OS will stop those when it needs memory.
For example, if Music is playing, it asks the Android system to consider it foreground, so it will never get forced to quit. But when music is paused it just runs as a normal app. When Android needs the memory, it force quits it immediately.
Same with Skyfire, it will remain loaded in the background if no other process needs the memory. This way if you leave and go back to it quickly it will be there, and won't have to reload. When something else needs the memory Android closes Skyfire. If you force it to close all the time, you only force it to load more often when you need it again, wasting time and battery life.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thanks for the explanation; i already removed the task killers from my phone and will see how it goes

muncheese said:
So how do I get more ram?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're in luck my friend!
Here you go:
http://www.downloadmoreram.com/index.html
Your phone will FLY!

Paul22000 said:
You're in luck my friend!
Here you go:
http://www.downloadmoreram.com/index.html
Your phone will FLY!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Awesome, I left a little on the server for you guys.

Re: FAQ: Why You Shouldn’t Be Using a Task Killer with Android (geekfor.me)
I have a problem with the way android does this multitasking because when I send opera or skyfire to the background, I want it to stay there no matter what. Most of the time It's still there when I switch back to it in a few moments. But sometimes the OS has decided to close it, even though I only switched away a few moments ago to read a quick email, and my webpage is completely gone. This is a major problem for me. It's especially maddening when you then see that the OS closed opera or sky fire to pre load a bunch of apps that I haven't used in a month. Like sms backup. That's an app that I need once a month to back up my texts. So I DON'T want to uninstall it.
-------------------------------------
Sent via the XDA Tapatalk App

I agree with your post but there are a few reasons to have an app that allows you to control your apps and yes, kill them from time to time. The main one is some apps need to run in the background to work properly and it can be a quicker way to kill them when you are done with them. One I use like this is trapster. Trapster uses a lot of battery. In order to kill it I have to switch to it and drill a menu. I dont kill it because of memory concerns, I kill it because of battery usage which is not a fault, it needs to run in the background to work properly. Rather than do that though I just click one icon and kill all with my tool of choice, systempanel. I'll get back to that.
Systempanel gives you a lot of information about what your apps are doing both in real time and can log. CPU cycles used, data, etc. With it you can easily locate that app that is killing your battery or just get real data about your processes and their consumption. Just a few days ago my battery took a 10% dump in an hour and I had not even been using the phone. Only took a minute with systempanel to figure out an app I had called quick settings had been smoking crack and gone bat**** on me. One uninstall/reinstall later, all good. Try that with atk. I set up so that all my frequently used apps are excluded from a kill all as well as lower level processes. This means in the odd case like after running trapster when I kill all I'm only killing apps that would have likely been completely shut down and need to fully restart anyways and I probably wasnt going to use them regardless because they are not frequently used apps. In other words I lose somewhere between very little and nothing but save the hassle of drilling menus to kill an app I want to stop. Im pretty high on this app, you can read more here http://androidforums.com/android-ap...task-killer-people-who-hate-task-killers.html

Re: FAQ: Why You Shouldn’t Be Using a Task Killer with Android (geekfor.me)
I understand all that, but I DON'T run anything but stock apps plus opera. So I DON'T have any unique situations of certain apps needing to be running for things to work properly. If you saw my system panel list you would see how downright simple my phone setup is, yet something like opera can't even stay open because the OS killed it. It's a horrible multitasking mechanism.

I was responding to a different post Roger, sorry for the confusion. Yours and several others came in before I was done typing.
I have had that one a couple times myself. I have been keeping my eye out for a good startup manager. Something that will allow me to stop amazon and others alltogether as well as manage when apps can startup. Something along the lines of only when the phone has been asleep for a set amount of time and so on. Might be a guy could make it so that the problem is reduced that way although it doesnt attack the problem directly.

Re: FAQ: Why You Shouldn’t Be Using a Task Killer with Android (geekfor.me)
Oh sorry I got confused.
Well anyway I don't have it in me to make a long detailed post, but I'm finding that android's multitasking is seriously flawed on a fundamental level. In fact it does the exact opposite of what I'm trying to do in many instances.
One quick example, load up a few webpages in the default browser, maybe an article or 2 and have the pages fully load so they are there to read. Great, now minimize the browser and go to the homescreen and then back to the browser. Your pages are still there, good.
Now I lost my data connection cause I'm commuting on the the train to work in a tunnel. If I open up any other app the OS closes the browser. When I reopen the browser all my loaded pages are still there in memory to read, but the browser immediately tries to refresh the pages, which won't work cause no data connection, and now my cached page disappears. Horrible. I purposely loaded those pages to read offline. The ass kicker is that all the while this happened because the OS decided to pre load a bunch of apps during this time which were not running previously and caused this browser to close. Apps I've not used in weeks, yet the app I WANT suffers.
I have more extreme examples but don't have the energy to post them now. But Google has closed out this item on their suggestion/bug forum.

RogerPodacter said:
Oh sorry I got confused.
Well anyway I don't have it in me to make a long detailed post, but I'm finding that android's multitasking is seriously flawed on a fundamental level. In fact it does the exact opposite of what I'm trying to do in many instances.
One quick example, load up a few webpages in the default browser, maybe an article or 2 and have the pages fully load so they are there to read. Great, now minimize the browser and go to the homescreen and then back to the browser. Your pages are still there, good.
Now I lost my data connection cause I'm commuting on the the train to work in a tunnel. If I open up any other app the OS closes the browser. When I reopen the browser all my loaded pages are still there in memory to read, but the browser immediately tries to refresh the pages, which won't work cause no data connection, and now my cached page disappears. Horrible. I purposely loaded those pages to read offline. The ass kicker is that all the while this happened because the OS decided to pre load a bunch of apps during this time which were not running previously and caused this browser to close. Apps I've not used in weeks, yet the app I WANT suffers.
I have more extreme examples but don't have the energy to post them now. But Google has closed out this item on their suggestion/bug forum.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You could easily download taskpanel, and add apps you do not need to the "auto kill list". I didn't know stock (which you said you were on a while ago) was so horrible when it came to memory, your problems don't even exist on my phone. I'm curious, if you installed Cyanogen would your problems away. If my browser closed on me after having too many apps open, I would be irritated as well.
I can have about 50-60 applications idle, or whatever, and the browser would never close. I don't use Opera, or Skyfire, though.

Paul22000 said:
Here's an article posted at http://geekfor.me that is by far the best explanation I've ever seen...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nice find, I got this article since a couple of weeks in my signature, in another forum and killed my taskkiller since then

I use a Task Manager that separates system tasks from app tasks. Anything I use on a regular basis, or even at all, including widgets I use and such, I add to the ignore list. I use it to kill background apps that try to run when they don't need to run. Why don't they need to run? Because I don't need stocks and twitter apps running because I don't use them and it won't let me uninstall them. Next best thing to do is to put them on an auto kill list, though it isn't quite aggressive enough. I really don't want to root just to uninstall the massive amount of bloat that comes from Telstra.

Paul22000 said:
You're in luck my friend!
Here you go:
http://www.downloadmoreram.com/index.html
Your phone will FLY!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
O.M.G.!!!!! This totally worked for me. This link should be stickied. Easy to use and simple.
muncheese said:
Awesome, I left a little on the server for you guys.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There can never be too much.
Now, a question. How about a program that polls for a signal, like google maps? Will it not look for things like my location? Please educate me, I want to believe.

wow great info and its really starting to help out after a few days. Think i got a pretty good question though. I understand the killing of apps and all of that now but what do yall think of a startup manager and picking and choosing before or while the system is booting (ive been using startup manager i found in the market). Just wanted to see what everyone thought. thanks, veritas

I know the task killer argument, but admit it, they still work..

So, I was just checking the downloads section on the market for new updates, and as u may know, previous purchases you made that aren't installed, stand out with their bright orange "Purchased" status at the bottom.
I bought Advanced Task Manager back when I had my Nexus One and found it very helpful. Against the suggestions of many who say to avoid task managers, I decided, "what the heck, let me try it again," because of all the great reviews the app was still getting. I opened it up, ended all of the apps running, and then started opening, closing and reopening apps again just to test for a difference.
I am shocked at how much of a performance improvement I was missing out on. The phone is running snappier than ever and I am very thankful for my 99 cent purchase. So, contrary to popular (belief?), this task manager/ task killer is doing a lot more good for me than any harm. I urge you guys (and girls?) to just give it a try.

Aspeds2989 said:
So, I was just checking the downloads section on the market for new updates, and as u may know, previous purchases you made that aren't installed, stand out with their bright orange "Purchased" status at the bottom.
I bought Advanced Task Manager back when I had my Nexus One and found it very helpful. Against the suggestions of many who say to avoid task managers, I decided, "what the heck, let me try it again," because of all the great reviews the app was still getting. I opened it up, ended all of the apps running, and then started opening, closing and reopening apps again just to test for a difference.
I am shocked at how much of a performance improvement I was missing out on. The phone is running snappier than ever and I am very thankful for my 99 cent purchase. So, contrary to popular (belief?), this task manager/ task killer is doing a lot more good for me than any harm. I urge you guys (and girls?) to just give it a try.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nice. The JI6 update includes the addition of a task manager. I'm going to do some testing and see if I notice any differences.

trunkstar1 said:
Nice. The JI6 update includes the addition of a task manager. I'm going to do some testing and see if I notice any differences.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
this is an ok one to use since it doesnt auto kill apps.

Aspeds2989 said:
So, I was just checking the downloads section on the market for new updates, and as u may know, previous purchases you made that aren't installed, stand out with their bright orange "Purchased" status at the bottom.
I bought Advanced Task Manager back when I had my Nexus One and found it very helpful. Against the suggestions of many who say to avoid task managers, I decided, "what the heck, let me try it again," because of all the great reviews the app was still getting. I opened it up, ended all of the apps running, and then started opening, closing and reopening apps again just to test for a difference.
I am shocked at how much of a performance improvement I was missing out on. The phone is running snappier than ever and I am very thankful for my 99 cent purchase. So, contrary to popular (belief?), this task manager/ task killer is doing a lot more good for me than any harm. I urge you guys (and girls?) to just give it a try.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I second this, I use my phone a lot. ATK really helped me with my phone overall performance.

Strange, I quit using ATK and didn't notice any difference, except that my battery life increased because I quit opening up ATK every hour to kill programs.
If it works for you, cool, although if you're noticing performance drop, it's probably from running services, not applications.

I usually just press back on an app so that it closes, just out of habit. This should work just as efficiently as ATK?

richan90 said:
I usually just press back on an app so that it closes, just out of habit. This should work just as efficiently as ATK?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly!!!
Anyone with a JI6 base press the home button after redding this post and then enter the JI6 task manager. XDA & the market (among other apps) will constantly hit the cpu.
I think it's really up to the end user to be selective in the apps & services they choose to run. Make sure you are ending your apps correctly & uninstall apps with running services you don't use... Then all should be fine.

richan90 said:
I usually just press back on an app so that it closes, just out of habit. This should work just as efficiently as ATK?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea, I do that too to exit every app that allows it. However, there is still a lot of useless stuff running in the background that I never open (Media Hub, Visual Voicemail, TTS...), but that automatically starts up and uses memory, and ending those apps will significantly improve your phone's available memory. If you just try it you will see, you have nothing to lose by just trying it (there's a free version), but I'm not trying to convince anyone, I'm just saying..
Also, the convenience of just having that "end all running tasks" widget on the homescreen is worth it alone. With one click, your phone feels like like it just rebooted.
Btw, I am running Bionix's rom which is great.. This just keeps everything even smoother.

trunkstar1 said:
Nice. The JI6 update includes the addition of a task manager. I'm going to do some testing and see if I notice any differences.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The J16 task manager is the crappiest and least useful app they could put together. Every popular task manager on the market is miles ahead of it.
Here I took two screens at the same time to show how much the J16 manager leaves out..
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}

Aspeds2989 said:
ending those apps will significantly improve your phone's available memory. .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've never had an issue with memory. I don't think I've ever dropped below 60megs free, and it's usually around 100. I'm running Bionix 1.8 (Jac's Voodoo at 200/1200), have tons of widgets going, and I never see lag or low memory issues. I guess everyone's hardware is different though.

Kubernetes said:
I've never had an issue with memory. I don't think I've ever dropped below 60megs free, and it's usually around 100. I'm running Bionix 1.8 (Jac's Voodoo at 200/1200), have tons of widgets going, and I never see lag or low memory issues. I guess everyone's hardware is different though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea I never had a problem with the memory either, I just mentioned it because the app displays it. Either way, I do see an impact when ending all of the apps/processes that I don't use (even the ones that use barely any memory). Oh well. Whatever works for everyone.

finally someone that agrees with me, my battery lasts way longer by using ATK, also my vibrant is super fast and responsive compared to my friends vibrant with lagfix and all that, i also never have app problems with force closes or hangs and the ignore list is awesome to make sure you never kill needed apps like email and stuff. ATK is a must have. I do however dont recommend using the auto-kill feature, that caused problems for me.
PS: sometimes hitting back all the way till the app exits doesn't always close it

trunkstar1 said:
Nice. The JI6 update includes the addition of a task manager. I'm going to do some testing and see if I notice any differences.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The ji6 task killer is crap! It doest show al the running apps
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

ld006 said:
finally someone that agrees with me, my battery lasts way longer by using ATK, also my vibrant is super fast and responsive compared to my friends vibrant with lagfix and all that, i also never have app problems with force closes or hangs and the ignore list is awesome to make sure you never kill needed apps like email and stuff. ATK is a must have. I do however dont recommend using the auto-kill feature, that caused problems for me.
PS: sometimes hitting back all the way till the app exits doesn't always close it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea I'm not even using the auto-kill feature. I'm just using the "end all" widget every once in a while and it works wonders. Btw, I'm not the only one who agrees with you, about 90% of thousands of people who reviewed it on the market are praising it too

Alex530 said:
The ji6 task killer is crap! It doest show al the running apps
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You guys just don't get it don't you... your built in process manager is showing you ONLY active processes and services running... and the ad_ware type task/app killer crap is telling you that everything is running so you believe what the 3rd party app is telling you verses what your system is telling you... Now I see why these sleazy programmers used the internet and the fear of viruses and spyware, to make tons of money ....
" Click here to install our free spyware scanner "
then
" You have 456 possible spyware files on your system, please purchase to clean your computer now "
You guys remember those days?. Well some people still fall for these scams.... and now it has come to android in the form of task/app killers...
Not all the apps that are being reported by these task killers as running is actually running.... most of them are in idle mode , not doing anything , thus why the system ignores them THEY HAVE NO EFFECT ON THE SYSTEM, until they are called into action again...
This is why Google has chosen to stop apps from killing other apps in 2.2 and up , in other words if you have an app that is killing your battery , don't use a task killer to kill it, report it to the developer so they can fix it, if its an oem system app , then, they need to know that the crap that they put on the phone is killing the battery and you want it fixed....
People in here love to start threads about crap like "where's my froyo" or "I sold my vibrant" , not one was ever started with a list of battery draining apps that needs to be fixed....
The developer of ATK has gone as far as to call Google ' evil ', because Google won't allow them to use their app to kill other apps on Google's OS...

dan0zone said:
You guys just don't get it don't you... your built in process manager is showing you ONLY active processes and services running... and the ad_ware type task/app killer crap is telling you that everything is running so you believe what the 3rd party app is telling you verses what your system is telling you... Now I see why these sleazy programmers used the internet and the fear of viruses and spyware, to make tons of money ....
" Click here to install our free spyware scanner "
then
" You have 456 possible spyware files on your system, please purchase to clean your computer now "
You guys remember those days?. Well some people still fall for these scams.... and now it has come to android in the form of task/app killers...
Not all the apps that are being reported by these task killers as running is actually running.... most of them are in idle mode , not doing anything , thus why the system ignores them THEY HAVE NO EFFECT ON THE SYSTEM, until they are called into action again...
This is why Google has chosen to stop apps from killing other apps in 2.2 and up , in other words if you have an app that is killing your battery , don't use a task killer to kill it, report it to the developer so they can fix it, if its an oem system app , then, they need to know that the crap that they put on the phone is killing the battery and you want it fixed....
People in here love to start threads about crap like "where's my froyo" or "I sold my vibrant" , not one was ever started with a list of battery draining apps that needs to be fixed....
The developer of ATK has gone as far as to call Google ' evil ', because Google won't allow them to use their app to kill other apps on Google's OS...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dude, I used to be on your side of the argument too. I hadn't used a task killer on my Vibrant since buying it, because of all the anti-task-killer rhetoric out there.. But after seeing the benefits of it, I can't deny it. On my Nexus One, the task killer didn't make much difference after it was on 2.2 and that's why I uninstalled it.. Until we have 2.2 on here, it's a little early to call whether it'll be useless on here too after that upgrade. So, we'll have to wait to call that one, but for now.. On 2.1, it's pretty handy.

Aspeds2989 said:
Yea, I do that too to exit every app that allows it. However, there is still a lot of useless stuff running in the background that I never open (Media Hub, Visual Voicemail, TTS...), but that automatically starts up and uses memory, and ending those apps will significantly improve your phone's available memory. If you just try it you will see, you have nothing to lose by just trying it (there's a free version), but I'm not trying to convince anyone, I'm just saying..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This.
Isn't.
Windows.
http://lifehacker.com/5650894/andro...ed-what-they-do-and-why-you-shouldnt-use-them
Also, the convenience of just having that "end all running tasks" widget on the homescreen is worth it alone. With one click, your phone feels like like it just rebooted.
Btw, I am running Bionix's rom which is great.. This just keeps everything even smoother.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's because your phone practically DID reboot.
And guess what a computer does when it reboots?
It restarts every background process that it's been told to autostart, and maxes out your CPU, draining your battery quicker. Typically when those background apps show up as "running", they aren't even using CPU cycles, and are just sitting in memory, waiting for you to use them again. When you kill the services though, they use CPU cycles they otherwise wouldn't have used.
I can see where some people's usage patterns might not benefit by the way Android handles app management. If you feel like it makes your phone run faster, then more power to you.
What would probably be more effective would be to use an autostart manager, rather than a task killer. That way apps like Mediahub don't even load in the first place.

Sigh.... I've tried way too many times to help on this topic. Do what you want people.... nevermind the facts/logic.

There are so many misguided Android users in this thread LOL.
Listen, if you really want to see your phone fly, download autokiller which is a memory manager/optimizer. When you are memory gets below a certain point that you can designate (I would just stick to the presets though), it will start freeing up RAM beginning with empty apps. Empty apps are apps that just sitting in memory not doing anything or serving a function to the user. Then, based on priority, it will go down the list and start freeing up RAM in other places IF and only IF you still need it.
Next, download Autostarts. This will allow you to have those apps that you do not want to to start to, well, not start! This is way more effective than constantly killing them over and over, because guess what? Most of them will just start again because they were not finished doing what they were doing!
Finally, just uninstall the apps you do not want! I've uninstalled most of the bloatware from my phone that started including Media Hub, Amazon MP3, etc etc etc.
Wouldn't you think that Google, the folks that created Android, just might know what is best for their operating system?
PS: If you just use the back button to get out of an app, 99% of the time it will close. I GUARANTEE! Open up an app, hit the home button and go into the built-in task manager. It will be there. Go into the same app and press back instead. Task Manager? Empty. Try it with any app. It will work. So thus, if you just close the apps like they are supposed to be, you won't even have any that need to be closed using a task manager.
Edit: And once you close them with the back button, guess what? They won't reopen! Try it, even with things like messaging.

There are times when moving between home screens is slow, or opening the app menu or going back to the home is slow. This usually happens after opening lots of apps. Closing everything using ATK always speeds this up when it gets slow. Perhaps Android's tolerance for closing extra services is too low. To be honest there are a lot of apps that start their service when I don't want it. The media hub and Tel-Nav GPS would start themselves constantly even though I never used them.
I just ran a test, opening almost every app on my phone. Critics of Task Killers would probably say that Android will kill services and apps when I'm not using them, so I should probably expect very minor slowdown, but not very much at all. When I got around to opening Angry Birds and Air Control (2 games) they took 10-15 seconds to open, immediately after I killed all of the apps and services using ATK Angry Birds opened in less than a second. Coincidence? I think not!

Uptime and Loss of RAM

Greetings! I've read all about not using task killers and refrained myself from using one. But now i'm a bit confused with the efficiency of android RAM management. I simply can't use my Nexus S smoothly beyond 100 hrs of uptime. after which the 'running' tab usually shows >200mb ram used with roughly 50mb of free.
I understand the used RAM was supposed to keep the previously opened apps in cache for faster subsequent execution time. But thats not what going on under the hood, i suppose, after 3/4 days of uptime. When i view 'show cached process' from the 'running' tab, it barely lists the default launcher and 1/2 other apps whereas this menu usually shows more that 10 apps being cached after a fresh boot.
The horrible thing that starts to happen then, most of the apps start exiting as soon as i touch the back button. Nothing except the foreground app stays in the RAM and everything else get dumped out of it and reloads at next launch.
Whats keeping the RAM then, if there's no space for app caching after merely 100hrs of uptime?
I'm not sure but the whole thing has led me believe my system has a major memory leak somewhere. Or, as i've read that the Nexus S actually have quite a bit lees than stated 512mb ram available for user apps… but should i expect this to be normal behaviour? Then why google released this model with inadequate amount of ram in the first place? I'm rebooting my phone every other night to keep it smooth!
Please shed some light, feeling totally lost. I'm moderately heavy user and come from symbian background.
PS: my phone is factory installed stock 2.3.4 with default launcher and widgets since i purchased if 2 mnths ago. no root done yet.

The cached app list in normal Android settings is inaccurate. Try apps like SystemPanel Lite.
Android does take care of RAM usage perfectly usually. Are you saying that your phone gets slower over time? That is quiet impossible unless you got a faulty installation of Android.
Also the "back" button does mean "exit and don't cache" for some/many apps.

Actually I agree my phone gets slow after time. I have to reset then after that it flys aagain
Sent from my Nexus S using XDA App

I noticed this problem as well, and i had read about it before, there are more people noticing it.
Maybe it happens only when you have too much stuff installed and running, if you are not a power user you might not notice it.
I think the android memory management is lacking here and the launcher app should be more robust, but the issue could also be solved if we had more memory.
I have 200+ apps installed in my nexus, some of them have services that run in the background automatically (and some of them didn't even have to, like some games and apps) and this uses memory.
I have around 15 or 20 apps always running as services, this uses 150mb+ memory. If i close any of these they will just start again in a few seconds automatically. The only way to stop this (my ns is not rooted) is if i uninstall them.
So, after a while, the most noticeable effect is that the launcher gets more sluggish and lagging. if i force close all apps it's smooth again, but only for a while. Also after i run a heavier app (like a game) and close it the launcher will restart/reload.
The workaround i found is to uninstall some of the apps/games that run as services until things get smoother again, but i don't want to give up most of them so i have to put up with a bit of sluggishness.

rentaric said:
The cached app list in normal Android settings is inaccurate. Try apps like SystemPanel Lite.
Android does take care of RAM usage perfectly usually. Are you saying that your phone gets slower over time? That is quiet impossible unless you got a faulty installation of Android.
Also the "back" button does mean "exit and don't cache" for some/many apps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah.... my phone gets slow over time, kind of. Let me explain it...
after a fresh boot, i can browse, email, check facebook, make calls, send sms and then come back to browser to find my last loaded page still there. but after 2/3 days of up time, whenever i leave a foreground app and go somewhere else, it gets killed. the worst case i faced was, from the google search app, after inputting my query, it had to close itself before opening the browser to perform the search. it gets that bad.
during these times i usually face a slight delay and jittery animation while opening each app. and the cached processes usually shows only the launcher occupying ~30mb of space and 1 or 2 other very small apps. it appears, because of lack of RAM the system also stops caching the usual number of processes.
i've also thought that my installation could be faulty. i'm using it purely stock for the first few months to get the hang of the way android works. what bothers me, without even rooting it, how can can it get faulty. i even did a factory reset after taking it out of the box.
I'll monitor the situation with the SystemPanel Lite and report back. Thanks for the reply.

temp9300 said:
I noticed this problem as well, and i had read about it before, there are more people noticing it.
Maybe it happens only when you have too much stuff installed and running, if you are not a power user you might not notice it.
I think the android memory management is lacking here and the launcher app should be more robust, but the issue could also be solved if we had more memory.
I have 200+ apps installed in my nexus, some of them have services that run in the background automatically (and some of them didn't even have to, like some games and apps) and this uses memory.
I have around 15 or 20 apps always running as services, this uses 150mb+ memory. If i close any of these they will just start again in a few seconds automatically. The only way to stop this (my ns is not rooted) is if i uninstall them.
So, after a while, the most noticeable effect is that the launcher gets more sluggish and lagging. if i force close all apps it's smooth again, but only for a while. Also after i run a heavier app (like a game) and close it the launcher will restart/reload.
The workaround i found is to uninstall some of the apps/games that run as services until things get smoother again, but i don't want to give up most of them so i have to put up with a bit of sluggishness.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This sounds exactly like what i'm facing. thanks for the input. I've also lost my launcher once after exiting the browser with several tabs open.. had to click the home button and then launcher again to get icons back on it. This usually doesn't happen after first 10-15 hrs but after several days of uptime.
I respect the way android tries to manage RAM automatically even by re-spawning the apps if it thinks they needed to be kept cached even after a force close from default task manager. With this kind of supreme automatic power comes huge responsibility of managing it well. It should count for every bits of data (concurrent garbage collection system?). But somehow it appears the ram management system is failing to count some of it and letting parts of the RAM go un accounted for.
I have like 30 apps installed from market with roughly 5 of them having active background process running. And I believe and hope this shouldn't be enough to take the android RAM management system down only after a few days of uptime.
Thanks again for the reply.

I'm going to try "auto memory manager" i read about in other thread as a way of forcing a minimum amount of free ram a bit higher than standard Android does.
It's one more service using memory but if does what is supposed to, maybe at least the launcher will stay more responsive.
The mild setting is too close to default so i have created a custom that looks roughly between mild and agressive.
I'll report back later.

the phone gets horribly slow when the RAM drops to below 50 Mb free
in which point i always have to use task killer to kill them all, and it's fast again until it again reaches less than 50 Mb RAM
another thing i noticed is that with very heavy high quality pictures/icons loaded to customize the launcher it will slow down the performance
instead if the whole launcher theme is less than 2 Mb or less then the phone also works very fast.

AllGamer said:
the phone gets horribly slow when the RAM drops to below 50 Mb free
in which point i always have to use task killer to kill them all, and it's fast again until it again reaches less than 50 Mb RAM
another thing i noticed is that with very heavy high quality pictures/icons loaded to customize the launcher it will slow down the performance
instead if the whole launcher theme is less than 2 Mb or less then the phone also works very fast.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
...and its unfortunate that i'm hitting the 50mb free RAM barrier with the stock launcher in only 3/4 days of uptime, regularly. why does the default app kill option let the memory go below 50mb then, if this can potentially hamper performance? and i'm not talking about any android phone here, but google's own Nexus flagship.
i remember reading a blog post by an android engineer explaining the merits of memory management by the OS and how task killers only worsen the situation. could they possibly optimize the OS ram management for light to moderate use and expected the heavy users to root and manage it on their own by tinkering the free mem settings? what else could explain the situation?
i wonder how things are with other skinned androids with similar hardware configuration if a Nexus is having tough time behaving well even with its trimmed software package. and i consider myself as only a moderately heavy user.

the memory cleanup isn't perfect in Android.
As much as everyone likes to say that Google tells you not to use task killers or any thing and that Android can take care of itself, every nice ROM out there plays with the minfree settings.
Fact is Android isn't perfect.
I know this from a 256MB device. We set it to it could boot with 30mb free. You could do maps and stuff, but a day later Maps would crash left and right because you ran out of memory. Even if it said 30mb free still in About phone.
The same with the Nexus S. Stock settings allow little free memory. I saw this in CM7. It gets slow after a day. A reboot fixes it all.
I suggest tweaking the minfree values or something so you can get decent performance. Fact is that performance will drop off a bit with up time, but at least if you tweak your minfree settings it should last a LONG time without needing to reboot.

this works great after patched my phone never gets slow
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1111145
just an FYI if you try it dont use the CWM version doesn't work on NS for some reason at least it didn't for me
just manually move with root-explorer and set perm to 777 and enjoy
edit
OP not rooted this requires root

dmo580 said:
the memory cleanup isn't perfect in Android.
As much as everyone likes to say that Google tells you not to use task killers or any thing and that Android can take care of itself, every nice ROM out there plays with the minfree settings.
Fact is Android isn't perfect.
I know this from a 256MB device. We set it to it could boot with 30mb free. You could do maps and stuff, but a day later Maps would crash left and right because you ran out of memory. Even if it said 30mb free still in About phone.
The same with the Nexus S. Stock settings allow little free memory. I saw this in CM7. It gets slow after a day. A reboot fixes it all.
I suggest tweaking the minfree values or something so you can get decent performance. Fact is that performance will drop off a bit with up time, but at least if you tweak your minfree settings it should last a LONG time without needing to reboot.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thanks for the informative reply. i've started to get the point about the situation. maybe a little more RAM would've delayed this kind of clogging but at its current state our little green robot simply isn't mature enough to carry the load we're putting on its shoulder. it that case i would accuse google of spreading the word that manual intervention isn't necessary. thats simply misleading. they way they've programmed the stock rom appears to be optimum for light use only.
anyway, i guess re-adjusting the minfree values require root, right? i should better start reading up on rooting then.

demo23019 said:
this works great after patched my phone never gets slow
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1111145
just an FYI if you try it dont use the CWM version doesn't work on NS for some reason at least it didn't for me
just manually move with root-explorer and set perm to 777 and enjoy
edit
OP not rooted this requires root
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i'm thinking of learning about rooting now. i like android for everything else it does and this particular device got me hooked with its unusual and clean look, and i don't wanna give up on it easily. but i think i'll have to gather up a lot of knowledge from this forum pages before i can attempt something like you've described.
thanks a lot for the solution anyway. i'll try it as soon as i feel comfortable with my understanding of android internals.

its not really that complicated just a script file you put into /system/etc/init.d with Root Explorer and set full permissions with root explorer and reboot and it starts working and if you dont like or dont want to sue anymore you simply delete the file.
but yea get rooted definitely worth it and you will gain more knowledge

temp9300 said:
I'm going to try "auto memory manager" i read about in other thread as a way of forcing a minimum amount of free ram a bit higher than standard Android does.....
I'll report back later.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well, things didn't exactly as i had planned, the test with memory optimizer was going ok but i only did for a day.
After that, i managed to sell my Nexus and went for an SGS2!
So far no lag/sluggishness issues and i have installed most of what i had in the NexusS, this phone has 2 important advantages, it has double the ram (so it should take longer to fill) and also it's faster which might compensate.

demo23019 said:
this works great after patched my phone never gets slow
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1111145
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dun use the script if you're running netarxhy, mathkid95;16006240 or trinity kernel. It will just made you worst. Oh yea, and also dun use it on Brainmaster miui rom
Sent from my Google Nexus S using XDA Premium App

window7 said:
Dun use the script if you're running netarxhy, mathkid95;16006240 or trinity kernel. It will just made you worst. Oh yea, and also dun use it on Brainmaster miui rom
Sent from my Google Nexus S using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
really?? but simms22 use auto memory manager too.. so i think we can still use the script with trinity kernel

king23adrianc said:
really?? but simms22 use auto memory manager too.. so i think we can still use the script with trinity kernel
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
auto memory manager and the script are two different things. honestly, i havent tried the script because auto memory manager works for me. ive been setting it higher than the aggressive setting lately btw...
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As a developer I've had to deal a lot with Android's memory management. Simply put, Google is correct in saying that Task Killers do more harm than good. Android is pretty smart about clearing memory.
However, a lot of apps and even some basic framework level calls cause memory leaks, which the garbage collector can't clean. So the only solution is a device reboot.

window7 said:
Dun use the script if you're running netarxhy, mathkid95;16006240 or trinity kernel. It will just made you worst. Oh yea, and also dun use it on Brainmaster miui rom
Sent from my Google Nexus S using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I use matrix, and worked fine on netarchy when i was testing.
and Brainmaster MIUI ROM already has script so yea dont need with his ROM also he provides trinty kernels on his ROM page so if trinity had issues with ram script i dont think he would be providing download links to use with his ROM

Removing bloatware and battery/permormance improvement

As this topic already on debate, whether removing bloatware improves performance(by making RAM free) OR does it improves battery ?
Here look to screenshot
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So looking to this, i can say it doesn't affect at all.
As i have pure stock ROM with Stock kernel (Cf Root), and after 11 hr of use and 28% of total battery drain, there is not even recordable battery use noted. So seems if it remains there or does it remove there is no difference on battery
Regarding RAM, as we know there is LMK (Low memory killing) mechanism of android system, android itself keeping recently opened application in background to get quicker access to them, if we remove bloatware then it will be replaced by another applications which we have used recently till android system feels RAM is full.
So in short removing bloatware have cosmetic effect and keeps your device clean from appearing in drawer but not positive effect on RAM/battery.

wow.. another great stuff after mythbusting build.prop tweaks...
.. thanks for the post,

Doctor. Cant we have thread on various myth busters. Like for build.props, kernel cleaning script,etc. shared on xda.
For build.props I had shared a web link on xda by Jeff Mixon,which can be useful.
Sent from my GT-N7000 using xda app-developers app

I disagree on some points you made as facts.
I have been removing bloatwares including system apps, mainly from the manufacturer, for as long as I have learned how to root my phones. I learned how to do it in the hard way and from time to time I soft bricked my phone which I recover by re-flashing the Stock Rom again. By no means I'm encouraging anyone to opitimise their phones by start removing apps. However, in my experience I have had increased my RAM size by comparing how much free RAM was available before and after each optimisation right after a bootup. Also in my experience my phone is much smoother after I'm done with my optimisation process. Battery life also depends on what kind of apps are removed so it can have a little to noticeable improvement too.
Here are some technical explanations. Any apps that start up after boot completion event is triggered would decrease the RAM and they would most likely stay resident in the memory to do some kind of background process, example of such app is Google Play. Another example would be the screenshot service which must be running all the time for the time user gestures for a screenshot.
There are also apps that are launched when an event happens and not necessary the user intend to use them all. This would slow down the phone if few apps were registered for the same events, I have seen cases where apps wrongly registered with events that they don't depend on. Example; Media related commands such Volume UP/Down or headphone plug in/out. I have removed both Google's Music App and Samsung's so there are two apps less respond and RAM is consumed less when I launch my favourite Music app. Obviously the background launch of apps have some impact on the battery too and it would be obvious when the device constantly is being used, not occasionally.
I have already increased the availability of RAM right after bootup by over 50MB on my Note and close to 100MB on Motorola Atrix. Atrix runs on GB and without the optimisation it is very lagy to the point I cannot use it. On GNote the difference is way lower but still noticeable after the optimisation.
Basically, to say there is absolutely no changes in battery and performance is wrong because there are many other factors need to be considered. Thank you.

CSharpHeaven said:
Basically, to say there is absolutely no changes in battery and performance is wrong because there are many other factors need to be considered. Thank you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with this. If I were to run a bloated stock Rom, I could produce several vastly different usage scenarios that would respectively
- not have negative impact on the battery
- have higher impact compared with the same usage on a debloated custom Rom, and
- have severe impact compared with etc.
In other words, if you tread very cautiously and are careful not burden your bloat too much it will be just as fine as any custom Rom. But if you are going to lean heavily on your bloat with WiFi, syncing, location on and at the same time playing online games, I'll bet you anything that it would drain battery much faster than a debloated custom Rom on the same scenario.

@CSharpHeaven
If you get my point, you can understand, removing bloatware freeup memory on booting surely, but as soon as you start playing with device, last used appl will be filled to background till RAM gets full. So effect is some what temporary. other thing if appli remain in backgroung it takes less time to re open(thats why android keep it in BG), and this way it increase performance.

dr.ketan said:
removing bloatware freeup memory on booting surely, but as soon as you start playing with device, last used appl will be filled to background till RAM gets full.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, but at least I'll have stuff I actually need running in the background, and not Yahoo Finance, Samsung Account and similar.

Though it may just be some placebo effect but removing bloatwares on your phone (samsung accounts, kies apps) does have some effect on the battery and on the overall performance of the phone.
Bloatwares that you don't necessarily need gives the RAM back to your phone and not only that.. it makes your AppDrawer clean for all the necessary apps that you really really need to be on your phone.
I prefer apps that I particularly need to use and not apps that just stays there but does not have any use at all (on my day to day needs).

chasmodo said:
Yes, but at least I'll have stuff I actually need running in the background, and not Yahoo Finance, Samsung Account and similar.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But how long it remains there? it will just disappear when you start playing with device isn't?
Basically my aim is to explain - Removing bloatware doesn't make that difference if you are expecting so much, you might be aware of that many user just root their device to get rid of bloat for hoping their device will shootup like bullet and battery will last for days and days
thats not real.

dr.ketan said:
you must be aware of that many user just root their device to get rid of bloat for hoping their device will shootup like bullet and battery will last for days and days
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can't quantify the exact number of users running rooted stock compared to those who rooted to be able to flash custom Roms.
However, if the poll in 'What Rom are you using' thread is anything to go by, there's much more users on custom Roms than
on rooted Stock - check it.
Besides, compelling reasons for rooting your phone are not just bloat removal, but also
- ability to do backups/restores
- ability to flash other Roms
- ability to theme your Roms
- ability to customize Roms in many other ways
- ability to flash kernels that are faster and optimized to be more battery friendly, not to mention SAFER
And finally, to get back to the topic, to get rid of Samsung/carrier crapware and make your phone more responsive and battery efficient.

i became aware of removing apps ( the first target is what we define as bloatware) to free up space in system, so as I could install other apps which i wanted, sometimes for successful rooting purposes, newer mods etc
i never looked towards improvement in battery and performance, did not notice anything in normal usage...
the OP is very convincing

I have removed some 200+ MBs of apps from system including software update, Sam apps etc and there is hardly any increase in free ram, so I dont think removing so called bloatware increases ram.
But yes removing apps like soft update and sam apps which run consistantly in background helps to some extent in battery point of view.
I agree free ram will be occupied by other apps but lot of apps dont run in backgroung they just cache the ram and doesnt impact anything. For example once i saw s pen in cached process using 80 MB of ram but it was not actually running. I dont think such apps use battery or processor in background.
Its still a topic of debate and I think will remain same
Just my 2 cents
Sent from my GT-N7000

I'm not sure about not affecting memory... To be correct on this, need to look on all bloatware cached processes - sometimes there are too much. But, what concerns me more - is the process priority. I'm not sure, but those of /system, both apps & services, seems to get the higher priority, than /data apps. And in case of stock Sammy rom, it's obvious, that their crap will stay in memory forever.

@chasmodo
I think I cudn't explain you properly. I am not saying ppl rooting for removing bloatware only
I want to say my msg to those ' who are rooting only for removing bloatware'
Though these ppl are very few, but I just want to convinced only removing bloatware can't help you much.
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@dr.ketan
In Android world applications register with events to be notified with both user and system actions such as GPS, Media Storage, Bluetooth, Wifi, App modifications (install & uninstall) , and so many other events. Also there are many apps that stay awake for some kind of background processing.
You are right to assume Android would kill any apps that is not being used and eventually reclaim the resources. What you have to bear in mind this cleaning process itself also consumes battery and CPU cycles. The smaller the list is, the shorter the CPU cycle would be. Furthermore, installing apps that hardly being used keep Android GC (Garbage Collection) busy because many of these apps coming alive (launching) when one of the events they registered with is fired.
After the first year with Android I learned to install only apps that I have daily use or use them very regularly. This is beyond me why people install over 100 apps on their phones.
By the way, launching apps in background for faster launch is fundamentally against app design for portable devices where resources such as battery is limited. In Android dalvik-cache takes care of lanching apps "quicker".

[Rom Dump] N7000XXLSA (4.1.2) BUG POOL / REPORTS

Please be concise! Only bug reports of the pre-"official" Samsung XXLSA ROM Leak, or Samsung issued updates!.
I will add up (e.g. bug x #4 ) and list all bugs reported here. No one did so far, despite probably a disproportionate number of people using this ROM as opposed to non-Samsung baked ROMs.
High Mem Usage #5 (several reports on xda)
Camera Click is delayed ( very noticable when making shots with flash enabled)
Slow. AnTuTu reports a score of ca 8000 vs. 10.000 typical for Gingerbread
Disabling Energy Saving Mode, drops the AnTuTu score to ca 7000
When restarting movil during the activated (in the task bar) “Multi Window” option, the first time this option is not functional. Inactivate and Active! #1 (andres.gomez.pena)
normal Kies Air is not working (connecting) using XXLSA #3
Usb connection via MTP is buggy #1 (couldn't confirm Win7100)
homescreen speaks to you (TTS) sporadically #1 (the opening of voice commands may also be intentionally enabled through a tapping motion!)
Kernel is Speedlocked at 1000Mhz #1 (bloodyduke)
Cchoice for apps not always remembered. E.g. for launchers. #3
(1) Update:
The Kernel is configured as SMP Preempt. Priorization may differ in this build from previous Samsung ROMs.
It appears the slow down isn't due to rampant services at all, but the CPU mode being set to "on demand" by default and Speedlocked.
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
I apologize if my phrasing is a bit off - I am still in my early learning stages.
Battery life is great, as reported by many others!
(2) Update:
The Speedlock is due to the Battery Savings option, and actually not a bug, but working as it should.
It thus cannot explain why Antutu is even significantly slower when Battery Savings options are turned off.
(3) Update:
The OS occasionally closes or restarts applications in the background, which may entail additional CPU loads.
Be advised to turn off Multi-view from the notification bar, if not needed. Antutu went up 800 points from ~7200 to again 8000. Closing background, and halting monitoring apps - yielded me 8500 points in Antutu.

When I want to edit the preferences of the instant load in the Google+ app, it crashes.

After reset, picture frame widget is blank and you need to select the picture again.
After reset default programs ( for images, web links and whatever ) are forgotten and you need to select them again when you first open them.
Usb connection via MTP is buggy and does not show all the files in some directories.
Kies recognizes device but says firmware cannot be updated ( probably normal though because this is not official firmware )
Charging while using the phone is very slow
Confirming Google plus bug... I just uninstall that anyway...

Enabling an application in accessibility settings (e.g. NoLed or Llama) makes the homescreen speak to you (TTS) and the phone becomes incredibly laggy. Longer explanation here and another claim here.

Smart stay option in display does not work in lsa leaked . Problem is fixed in lsc leaked .
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S Pen hovering effect doesn't work,I mean it doesn't open any thumbnails
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XXLSD is out. So maybe a buglist for this is more interesting - assuming that from LSA over B to C to now already D some of the A-Bugs are solved.

ThaiDai said:
XXLSD is out. So maybe a buglist for this is more interesting - assuming that from LSA over B to C to now already D some of the A-Bugs are solved.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True. But I figured that the majority will toy with the leaked "official" ROM and either didn't or opted out of any OTA updates. The majority aren't testers but only install the official versions and might land here via google search. Yet as you said, it is a good idea to pool the more recent builds here as well to see if a potential bug is no longer reported.
To all: Please report XXLSB - XXLS? bugs here as well, along with the version you are using.
For instance this Rocketrom JB bake ( http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1953847 ) is reported with the bug: "Zooming issue with VideoCam on 1080p-mode".
I checked this in XXLSA, and got an error message "Zooming is not supported while Recording FULL HD video". Seems OK and logical. I figure a lot has been fixed or improved in the leaked JB.
I ponder if the sluggishness and high Mem consumption is due to most applications being baked as debug versions? Can anyone confirm this theory? Much can also be explained via ( https://www.google.com/search?client=opera&q=SMP+PREEMPT ) - the KERNEL configuration of the leaked bake.

For me XLSA worked pretty good until it stopped. When I was listening to music on Poweramp using BT headphones phone freezed. After reboot it stuck on black splash screen GT-N7000. Nothing was working - nor nandroid backup helped nor wiping or even flashing XLSC. Had to do wipes using Abyss Kernel 4.2 Red Pill. After that I could flash or recover system from backup. All was back to normal.

Bluetooth Headset doesn't beep after call ends
Here is another bug that I discovered.
When I am using my bluetooth headset, when the call ends I don't hear the BEEP in the headset that indicates that the call has ended.
In 4.04 when the call ended I would here a BEEP in my headset.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=34980130&posted=1#post34980130

ThaiDai said:
XXLSD is out. So maybe a buglist for this is more interesting - assuming that from LSA over B to C to now already D some of the A-Bugs are solved.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you know how can I get the official XXLSB, XXLSC or XXLSD upgrade?

Diegocsn said:
Do you know how can I get the official XXLSB, XXLSC or XXLSD upgrade?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Someone wrote an app for that MyUpdate or UpdateMe, it was called. (If I would have the post, I would link it).
Others have gotten updates through the official channel - (Phone Status -> Update) e.g. in Singapore. You could try and VPN connect your phone to an Asian server/ISP.

bloodyduke said:
Someone wrote an app for that MyUpdate or UpdateMe, it was called. (If I would have the post, I would link it).
Others have gotten updates through the official channel - (Phone Status -> Update) e.g. in Singapore. You could try and VPN connect your phone to an Asian server/ISP.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please teach on the vpn connection to asian server.
Sent from my GT-N7000 using xda app-developers app

Gallery toolbar sometime misaligned/moving down after viewing photo/full image.
Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2

1. Lags: Even with ultra clean instal. Removing some apps makes it better. But not that much.
2. Butter is more like lumpy grease. Same experience as compared to gb on gs2, now jb on note compared to nexus. Experience not on same smoothness level.
3. More black clipping then ever
4. Unstable, can sod permenantly.
5. Next to black clipping strange artifacts in screen. Rare issue
6. Regionalisation is more linked to simcard/network rather then csc or chosen countries. This makes it difficult to read disclaimers for the travelers amongst us. This for os, for samsung apps and for google play. Pretty silly move.
7. Apps dont remember their states ( e.g. browsers) This is inhibiting multitask experience. Apple can do this why not Android. Focus was on multitasking with release wasnt it?
8. Not all aps are aproachable through the multitasking bar
9. Ota changes check on root now
10. Messages in multitask mode from one app can block all others untill message is away
11. Spen becomes uncalibrated over time. Unforgivable for a spen phone
12. Nice toggles, brightness missing in stock version (60% sure of this)
13. Not as robust. A battery pull can make phone unbootable. Not foolproof.
14. Default choice for apps not always remembered. E.g. for launchers.
Rant rant, so on and so forth
Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2

baz77 said:
1. Lags: Even with ultra clean instal. Removing some apps makes it better. But not that much.
2. Butter is more like lumpy grease. Same experience as compared to gb on gs2, now jb on note compared to nexus. Experience not on same smoothness level.
3. More black clipping then ever
4. Unstable, can sod permenantly.
5. Next to black clipping strange artifacts in screen. Rare issue
6. Regionalisation is more linked to simcard/network rather then csc or chosen countries. This makes it difficult to read disclaimers for the travelers amongst us. This for os, for samsung apps and for google play. Pretty silly move.
7. Apps dont remember their states ( e.g. browsers) This is inhibiting multitask experience. Apple can do this why not Android. Focus was on multitasking with release wasnt it?
8. Not all aps are aproachable through the multitasking bar
9. Ota changes check on root now
10. Messages in multitask mode from one app can block all others untill message is away
11. Spen becomes uncalibrated over time. Unforgivable for a spen phone
12. Nice toggles, brightness missing in stock version (60% sure of this)
13. Not as robust. A battery pull can make phone unbootable. Not foolproof.
14. Default choice for apps not always remembered. E.g. for launchers.
Rant rant, so on and so forth
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I cannot confirm most of these. Performance issues, true. As for multitasking: The high memory consumption leads to forceful closure of apps. Apps must implement restoring routines. Never had any system crashes or artifacts ever - with pretty heavy testing.
If you have rooted the phone your bug reports aren't what others experience.
8. It was delivered and promoted as such. Probably for stability reasons. XDA users have broken that limitation (rooting required).
10- I checked this. Not the case. E.g. video player and gallery zooming. Depends on the application's routine to being put in the background.
11. Didn't experience that. The lack of calibration options bugs the hell out of me. Primitive y-offseting is provided through left /right handed settings. I found an app that allows Wacom digitizer calib. $$+ root. No way!
My mind was blown when I downloaded the Wacom Sketching app and experienced unparalleled Spen sensitivity.
13. Definitely not the case. I am usually too lazy to shut down.
14. Ack.

bloodyduke said:
I cannot confirm most of these. Performance issues, true. As for multitasking: The high memory consumption leads to forceful closure of apps. Apps must implement restoring routines. Never had any system crashes or artifacts ever - with pretty heavy testing.
If you have rooted the phone your bug reports aren't what others experience.
8. It was delivered and promoted as such. Probably for stability reasons. XDA users have broken that limitation (rooting required).
10- I checked this. Not the case. E.g. video player and gallery zooming. Depends on the application's routine to being put in the background.
11. Didn't experience that. The lack of calibration options bugs the hell out of me. Primitive y-offseting is provided through left /right handed settings. I found an app that allows Wacom digitizer calib. $$+ root. No way!
My mind was blown when I downloaded the Wacom Sketching app and experienced unparalleled Spen sensitivity.
13. Definitely not the case. I am usually too lazy to shut down.
14. Ack.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
8 Would be nice if they showed an option to view all aps with a disclaimer, stability issues can arize. At own risk. If it cant harm the phone, why not .
10 we are using different apps. Probably different way of showing these prompts/status messages. So its not generically captured, my guess.
11 good tip on the app. Youre gonna love this one if it works.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2027680
13 has been reported at least once, apart from my own experience
Other issues, some difficult to reproduce. That doesnt make them untrue.
I concurr, my setup in regards to stock is not 100% representative. But root cannot effect black clipping or strange artifacts. I think.
However this thread title is on rom dump, not the sammobile leaked rom(referred to as stock, which to my knowledge is not based on dump).
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Not very accurate list.
Sent from my GT-N7000 using xda app-developers app

thanks for pointing this out. As I said, I did indeed not have any troubles with the pre-official XXLSA. Not even application crashes that I can remember, let alone system crashes - with heavy testing. Many initial bugs which turned out to be misinformation on my part.
My biggest gripes are high memory consumption, sluggishness - but I have no idea if this is normal. But there is certainly a strong argument why current phones have more RAM and more CPUs, GPUs.