Database Users

I think someone is stealing your programs!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...Track=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:middle:us
I came across this looking for an 8525, it seems that he may be using the FREE programs available on here. I would say whoever created them go after this guy because it's obviously not fair he is using what you created to profit without you getting anything for it. I'm not 100% sure if he is use the programs from here, but I mean how many Sim/CID unlock program are really out there for the 8525?

I just reported the item to ebay, this is JJ's stuff and other members hard work.

Lurch3559 said:
I just reported the item to ebay, this is JJ's stuff and other members hard work.
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maybe a copy of SPL-****er will be worming its way to him... nothing to do with me of course ^_^

You're welcome guys .

Yeah thats a bunch of bull****. i was looking on ebay the other day for a broken wizard and i saw someone selling a program that would load farias wm6 rom onto their phone. I reported that **** right away. There are so many people on here that are so talented and make so much awesome programs and not charge us a dime for it, but then you got dicks like that guy who decides to profit off of other peoples hard work. Death to that ****er.

Really classy how he was going to put commercial video game ROMs onto the phone/memory card too.
Not only was this guy trying to rip off the individuals here at XDA-dev, but also large corporations as well...
S-M-R-T

chenga said:
Really classy how he was going to put commercial video game ROMs onto the phone/memory card too.
Not only was this guy trying to rip off the individuals here at XDA-dev, but also large corporations as well...
S-M-R-T
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I asked him about the programs and whether he developed them or not, here is the response I got:
"no not personally, but do talk to some of the developers and i donate some of my profit to them. any other questions feel free to ask
thanx
nate"
"i do cook my own roms if thats what you are asking, and just recieved an email asking me to remove this service and aparently reported to ebay, so i will not be able to offer this service at this time
sry
nate"
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Good Catch myztikal47.
I guess we can all help the developers here by keeping an eye out for this kind of crap.
I think it wouldn't be a bad Idea to have a sticky on this topic, something with an eye catching title, so more are aware of this issue, so as to be looking out for stinking thieves at places like ebay or craigslist.

I think it was only a question of time. There is no way how to block this. He can use new account, new name or whatever. we have similar problem on our forum, it is strictly technical forum about repairing TV, radio, video, SAT, PC... and we also have big storage with service manuals, service tips and few guys from us steal this infos from us and trying to profit on these! those information have price of gold, but is no help to stop this. So we decide for higher security, for restriction who can download files, and vice-versa etc. but here is not so easy I think, this will kill this forum.

wow he even had a picture of JJ rom on the page thats the lowest of low stealing and turning anround and making a profit off of it... His address is at the bottom of the page if anyone wants to send him a thank you card!

sinmae said:
I think it was only a question of time. There is no way how to block this. He can use new account, new name or whatever. we have similar problem on our forum, it is strictly technical forum about repairing TV, radio, video, SAT, PC... and we also have big storage with service manuals, service tips and few guys from us steal this infos from us and trying to profit on these! those information have price of gold, but is no help to stop this. So we decide for higher security, for restriction who can download files, and vice-versa etc. but here is not so easy I think, this will kill this forum.
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I don't think I take such a gloomy view. I agree it is impossible to stop someone selling a service and it is not in the spirit of this forum to sell either advice or cooked ROMs etc. But to play "devil's advocate" for a minute, what is it we object to? Is it that these folk are making money? Is it the lack of acknowledgement to the people who have put in all the development work? Is it the danger that selling this type of thing brings unwanted attention from M$ and telecom service providers?
I personally don't object to someone selling their time to help someone who lacks knowledge though they should tell the customer that they could learn for free from this site. If someone offered me cash to help them flash a ROM I don't think I'd feel guilty if I accepted money to do it. (Though I never have!).
I feel the main reason to block this kind of activity is that we already have unwanted attention from the likes of M$ without being associated with the sale of a service that relys on what M$ consider to be illegally altered M$ material. The very act of selling the service will bring a much harder approach from M$ IMO. No longer would we we seen as a bunch of keen dedicated geeky amateurs, but people out to profit illegally from M$ original work.
I notice on a brighter note that the two cases of this I am aware of are no longer available through ebay. In one case the individual has withdrawn the service and the other was removed by ebay.
EDIT: One of them is BACK
As a warning to others who might follow - selling a service or ROMs in this very public way is almost certainly illegal, particularly if bundled with a whole lot of other commercial games etc. If you want to take on the M$ legal team then this is a good way to go about it - remember it's not just the developers here that are not giving permission it is M$ original work that is being made available in a "corrupted" form.
Mike

This guy is back! But in a different flavor. I just found this today on eBay:
http://cgi.ebay.ca/CINGULAR-8525-HT...ryZ64355QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
He is WAAAAYYY overcharging on this phone. His justification? 1) the free upgrades found on this site, and 2) a CD of cracked illegal software.
And I fell sorry for this buyers who fell for his iPhone upgrade scam:
http://cgi.ebay.ca/HTC-CINGULAR-812...ryZ64355QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.ca/HTC-CINGULAR-812...ryZ64355QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
I can't believe people fell for that!

this isnt that much different from offering a service to fix phones that users have broken. IE i upgraded to windows mobile 6 and now it doesnt turn on.
yes hes selling other peoples work but really the people that pay him arnt paying him for the software they are paying him for the knowledge he has gained from reading
i would offer a repair service for noobs but theres allready people doing it.
its actually no different to taking a black rom and not donating then complaining about it

tallshorty said:
And I fell sorry for this buyers who fell for his iPhone upgrade scam:
http://cgi.ebay.ca/HTC-CINGULAR-812...ryZ64355QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.ca/HTC-CINGULAR-812...ryZ64355QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
I can't believe people fell for that!
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What is to say those buyers are not M$ trying to get the individuals information and then suing him later? Just a thought...

IMO it's fine for him to sell phone with the software pre-loaded on them already, thats like anyone on here selling their phone with all the hacks already done....but to actually have a service to install the software on the phone and profit from that, and not pay the people who created the software...well thats illegal, someone should just report him to Microsoft, they'll have a field day with him lol.

myztikal47 said:
IMO it's fine for him to sell phone with the software pre-loaded on them already, thats like anyone on here selling their phone with all the hacks already done....but to actually have a service to install the software on the phone and profit from that, and not pay the people who created the software...well thats illegal, someone should just report him to Microsoft, they'll have a field day with him lol.
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I agree with you on that but look at how much higher he is selling the phone because of the free softwares. It's the same as offering the service, basically.

he must need some money to be doing this...this guy must be a crack addict...or meth...yeah probably meth addict, anyways
I'm saddened to see stuff like this go on...coupled with these annoying noobs flooding the forums, m$ being ever so watchful, and the eventuality of newer devices...the great people of XDA might just get turned off from all of this...i know some are already extremely annoyed
...only time will tell

I have a close personal friend that works for Microsoft in their Windows Mobile team and I am going to forward this thread as well as the links to the ebay auctions over to him.

mikechannon said:
I don't think I take such a gloomy view. I agree it is impossible to stop someone selling a service and it is not in the spirit of this forum to sell either advice or cooked ROMs etc. But to play "devil's advocate" for a minute, what is it we object to? Is it that these folk are making money? Is it the lack of acknowledgement to the people who have put in all the development work? Is it the danger that selling this type of thing brings unwanted attention from M$ and telecom service providers?
I personally don't object to someone selling their time to help someone who lacks knowledge though they should tell the customer that they could learn for free from this site. If someone offered me cash to help them flash a ROM I don't think I'd feel guilty if I accepted money to do it. (Though I never have!).
I feel the main reason to block this kind of activity is that we already have unwanted attention from the likes of M$ without being associated with the sale of a service that relys on what M$ consider to be illegally altered M$ material. The very act of selling the service will bring a much harder approach from M$ IMO. No longer would we we seen as a bunch of keen dedicated geeky amateurs, but people out to profit illegally from M$ original work.
I notice on a brighter note that the two cases of this I am aware of are no longer available through ebay. In one case the individual has withdrawn the service and the other was removed by ebay.
EDIT: One of them is BACK
As a warning to others who might follow - selling a service or ROMs in this very public way is almost certainly illegal, particularly if bundled with a whole lot of other commercial games etc. If you want to take on the M$ legal team then this is a good way to go about it - remember it's not just the developers here that are not giving permission it is M$ original work that is being made available in a "corrupted" form.
Mike
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I will point out a couple of things wrong with this Mike... 1. He is using JJ's roms and i highly doubt JJ is getting any kind of kickback. 2. His ebay username nateshuntsvegas is the same as on here. That alone could very well attract some negative attention as if M$ havent given us a hard time the way it is.
the rest of it i agree with

shogunmark said:
I will point out a couple of things wrong with this Mike... 1. He is using JJ's roms and i highly doubt JJ is getting any kind of kickback. 2. His ebay username nateshuntsvegas is the same as on here. That alone could very well attract some negative attention as if M$ havent given us a hard time the way it is.
the rest of it i agree with
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I don't disagree with your comment, but as JJ's work is freely available for folk to download it's impossible to stop anyone selling services to install it. But yes the negative attention of M$ (linked as it is to here) is certainly not what we want. If we are seen by M$ to be set against any moves to sell this kind of material or a service to install it I'm sure this will improve their view of us.
Mike

HD2 Services On Craigslist

Browsing through Craigslist for an HD2 I came across multiple posts of people that are offering to upgrade the HD2 to winmo 6.5.x or Android for a fee of anywhere from $30-$60 dollars. I don't think it's right for people to be making a profit from something that they did not create. I highly doubt that they are taking part of the fee that they charge and donating it to the developers for their work. I've been flagging their posts in hopes that they get removed and will post information as to how to do install Androids themselves for free. I don't know if it's appropriate to ask you to do the same in your local cities and encourage the public to donate to the developers themselves instead of paying the $30-$60 dollars to someone that has done nothing to earn them except for ripping off the work of someone else. If I was a chef and stayed up for countless hours, missed family time and what not and found out that someone was making money off my work, i'd be livid. Just wanted to make you guys aware of a situation that is unacceptable.

I don't personally feel that by offering to set someones phone up with all the bells and whistles for a fee is wrong.
If a person doesn't feel like reading up and spending time learning how to setup their phone and wants to pay someone to do it for them that is there choice.
Saying that the person setting the phone up for them isn't right because they are collecting a fee to set up "open source" and freely distributed software onto there phone to save someone who is busy and doesn't have the time to spend hours reading on this forum to accomplish this is just silly.
Yeah all us phone junkies who don't have anything else better to do then sit on XDA and read and learn about our (hobby) for hours on end may seem normal to you and I but a HUGE portion of people do not have the time or wish to waste time on this when they can pay someone to have a tricked out phone to show off at the office.
And beyond that..the economy is in the toilet. People are trying to make a buck any possible way they can to feed themselves.
I have been buying HD2's when I see them cheap on craigslist and bringing them home, tricking them out and then reselling them for $100 to $150 profit for awhile now.
it has kicked in some extra income nicely helping buy kids school cloths, wife a nice dinner, etc etc
Just my two cents.
18.4009

marduk79 said:
Browsing through Craigslist for an HD2 I came across multiple posts of people that are offering to upgrade the HD2 to winmo 6.5.x or Android for a fee of anywhere from $30-$60 dollars. I don't think it's right for people to be making a profit from something that they did not create. I highly doubt that they are taking part of the fee that they charge and donating it to the developers for their work. I've been flagging their posts in hopes that they get removed and will post information as to how to do install Androids themselves for free. I don't know if it's appropriate to ask you to do the same in your local cities and encourage the public to donate to the developers themselves instead of paying the $30-$60 dollars to someone that has done nothing to earn them except for ripping off the work of someone else. If I was a chef and stayed up for countless hours, missed family time and what not and found out that someone was making money off my work, i'd be livid. Just wanted to make you guys aware of a situation that is unacceptable.
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+1... Unless these guys are giving donations to the chefs. These guys are also a lot here in Florida. That's why I also give an ad offering a FREE help in putting Android on their HD2.

Very much not trying to start a flame war here because I believe people have the right to do as they please...
But you must have some serious time on your hands to post on craigslist for free services. I need to reinstall my notebook, would you knock that out for me?
Just giving you a hard time.
But on the other issue you brought up. I personally donate to chefs who are elite and really drive some innovation with fixing issues, be it on the vibrant, HD2, nexus, etc. I own and follow six different phones and follow the serious chefs for those products. and kick into the beer fund from time to time. Again just like some who spend there time fixing up a phone for someone who doesn't feel like learning it themselves is really no different then people grabbing roms from here and throwing it on their phones. they technically (could) read, learn and create roms for there own personal use but they rather have someone who is a little smarter do it for them and if they are feeling generous they may kick in a couple bucks as a thank you.
People "don't" have to pay to get their phone tricked out but if they dont feel like spending the time learning it then hell....why not make a buck doing it for them.
18.4009

If we lived in a perfect world sure it would be great if they gave part of the profit to the original devs, but we dont and honestly if it get more people into Android is that a bad thing? Most noobs cant even figure out how to put widgets on their screen(had to help a lady do that) so there is no way they can do it themselves even if to us its easy so why not make them happy and the geek can make a little cash. But I agree donating a little to the devs would be the nice thing to do.

All of you have some very valid points. I just found it frustrating that the dev's would see no money from their own product. At the very least what can happen is that the dev's get introduced to other groups of people who in turn may come here, learn to flash their own rom and eventually donate.

CL service providers
I agree with both perspectives on this issue.
a. Yes, there are sereral ppl providing such services
b. Yes, there are several students openly stating they learned how to do this and will do this for you for pizza money (Like $10-$15, so much for big business ideas)
c. Yes, the ppl doing this should donate to devs periodically.
d. Yes, there are several youtube videos out there showing step by step instructions on how to do the upgrades.
e. Yes, several so called craigslist experts end up bricking customer's phones, leave with buggy setups, incorrect radios, robotic voices :-D
I think its best for devs to continue their hard work for the community that appreciates and benefits from their work is far larger than the select few who go K2. The donations will continue to pour in as the development reaches to immaculate full-featured build solutions. At which point, the devs could consider options for official sales of their roms and android builds.

Can Someone please clarify some rules for me

Rule 8: donations up front are not allowed
to quote the mod "asking for donations up-front"
The phrase "if you donate you can have this rom" was never said Someone asked the dev what the public release date would be and he stated 3-4 days. I guess they always have to keep a secret when the releases are.
Seems pretty straight forward. However I fail to see how "established developer with lengthy public release list and contibutions to the scene, rewards the people who, with no pre-knowledege that something might come of it or with any purpose except to say thanks for the work you have already done it is great, helped him with donations so he layed out a beta release for them a few days early."
Maybe we need to change the official XDA rules or make an amendment or something that says. "If at any point ever you release something that does not leave every person with an equal opportunity to download it, barring complications due to persons being on differing Internet Providers, any threads pertaining to this download or the children of this download will be closed and will be looked into to determine if banning is necessary.
That way if any developer feels especially close to his biggest fans and wants to throw them a bonus to really show his appreciation he wont even think of doing any kind or pre release.
Edit: Can someone please post what rule the dev broke? Someone has already posted that he is well with the GPL and I am saying he is well within rule 8
EDIT2: I WOULD LOVE A MOD TO COME HERE AND TRY TO CLARIFY/JUSTIFY THEIR ACTIONS

damn that thread was closed ima wait to install it till its reopened
do not bar this awesome rom

lately i see that the xda team are coming down hard on epic developers. i wonder if there is something else going on...oops, i hope that no one banes me
BRING EPIC EXPERIENCE BACK

ericizzy1 said:
lately i see that the xda team are coming down hard on epic developers. i wonder if there is something else going on...oops, i hope that no one banes me
BRING EPIC EXPERIENCE BACK
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I don't think it is the only one. I thought I remember reading that if Hero's backedsnack had a public releases the thread would be opened here however there is definitely a great 1.3 public release, Rom and Kernel with many things other roms don't have and the thread here is definitely not open.

Wow. I almost mentioned this to him yesterday but figured it must've been within the rules. I know there are lots of different apps/roms on here that go out early to donators, so what's the difference? I assume it's based on him stating publicly that it will go out early to donators?
Glad I got my donation in and download link in my mailbox! Epic Experience is really the only ROM worth running on the Epic right now.

Funny how when I was in the Hero forum this was common practice, and even exposed to the staff here and nothing was done.
If you did not donate, you did not get the ROM until the public release was announced. I don't see why this is a big problem? People develop and take time from their busy lives to make roms, why not ask for donations, and give the people who donate special perks?

Because it's not a donation if you have to pay for it to get it.
Let's say you go to one of those car washes...you know, with the 16 year old girls in skimpy bathing suits with the sign, Donations Only. Now, you pull up there and expect a car wash, but they tell you that you have to pay before they'll even start anything. Not knowing how good a job they'll do, you have no idea how much you'd want to pay them so, because you don't want to pay until it's done, they send you to the back of the line until they make enough money to open it to everyone.
Say one guy pays $15 to that donation and, although the view of their supple, tight breasts smashed against his windshield is highly stimulating, they do little to the car but smear mud all over and leave streaks on the window. They're done now. Great show, but that's not why he came to the car wash. He regrets giving that money now because he drives away with blue balls and a dirty car. Not worth the "donation".
Donations are something given for products/services received up front, otherwise, it's called a charge.

Now take that car wash, ask for a $5 donation up front to have your cash washed now, or wait a week and have to deal with the lines (low bandwith) of being able to have your car washed for free.
Same concept. Its not a charge, its a donation. Because you don't HAVE to donate to be able to download it. The public will be able to download it, just a few days down the road.

I am not to familiar with whats going on as I don't use that rom..but from my understanding he does make the rom publicly available...the only advantage donators get are support and early access to the beta.
I do not see an issue with that in itself...as you can try the rom and everyone has access to it..but with "betas" its up to the author how to handle distribution of it...
THE GPL states
"When we speak of free software, we are referring to freedom, not price. Our General Public Licenses are designed to make sure that you have the freedom to distribute copies of free software (and charge for this service if you wish), that you receive source code or can get it if you want it, that you can change the software or use pieces of it in new free programs; and that you know you can do these things."
Aka he has the right to charge for distribution according to the GPL..but once obtained a person is free to share the beta to everyone else if they choose.
I personally do not see a problem in that respect..of course if its a violation os a different rule thats another story.

scriz said:
Now take that car wash, ask for a $5 donation up front to have your cash washed now, or wait a week and have to deal with the lines (low bandwith) of being able to have your car washed for free.
Same concept. Its not a charge, its a donation. Because you don't HAVE to donate to be able to download it. The public will be able to download it, just a few days down the road.
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Again. It's not a donation, you're saying "This car wash costs $5."
We have a vending machine at work. It costs 60 cents for a candy bar. But if we wait a month or so, they'll be placed on the kitchen table for free. Is that 60 cents a donation or a cost?
Just because it will be free later does not mean it's not a cost now.
This is okay with me: "Hey, I'm charging whatever you want to pay to get my ROM before anyone else! After I release it to the general public, they can feel free to donate what they feel it's worth."
That is apparently not okay with XDA which is the whole point of the thread. I didn't want to get too far off topic with semantics and my personal feelings.

Grow up xda
Want my advice, of course not but I will post it anyway cause I am waiting for a 30 minute rip file and dont need to read on the can.
Slap him on the wrist, remind him of the rule and move the hell on. This is a DEV doing good things. I dont agree with your rule, all he did was post a day or two early for his supporters, its not like a public release was not coming at all. But I do agree that if you have a rule you then need to enforce it or think about changing the stupid thing.
Seems to me like XDA is becoming a little too militant. Thats all right, these forum sites come and go with change.

Last thing.
I hate criticizing or supporting rules without exposing loopholes (Lawful Neutral with evil tendencies). Here's what I would do as the dev.
1. Follow the friggin' rules.
2. Make a post such as "Having troubles with the newest Beta for XXX ROM"
3. Ardent followers will recognize that ROM and ask why they don't have it
4. The OP (secondary account for the dev or a friend) will explain it's a paid beta (or "required donation" beta if you prefer) of XXXX user's ROM and can contact him here: [email protected] or however you guys do it.
5. "BUT I DON'T WANNA PAY!!!" Well, I think the dev mentioned it will be open to all on XX/XX/XXXX and he'll make a post when it's freely available as per the rules.
Ta-da. Totally within the rules to ask for assistance on ROMs even when others may or may not have them.
And don't lie. Ever. There is never a reason to lie. Dev, put a small, easily noticed and easily fixed bug in your ROM so it's a legitimate post.
People willing to buy an early beta are happy. XDA is happy. Moderators are happy.

othan1 said:
Again. It's not a donation, you're saying "This car wash costs $5."
We have a vending machine at work. It costs 60 cents for a candy bar. But if we wait a month or so, they'll be placed on the kitchen table for free. Is that 60 cents a donation or a cost?
Just because it will be free later does not mean it's not a cost now.
This is okay with me: "Hey, I'm charging whatever you want to pay to get my ROM before anyone else! After I release it to the general public, they can feel free to donate what they feel it's worth."
That is apparently not okay with XDA which is the whole point of the thread. I didn't want to get too far off topic with semantics and my personal feelings.
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Hi will i normally agree with you and take a pretty strict stance on the line between donation and cost. In this rom situation I do not agree. First off yes you are paying for that candy bar. However most car washes like that call it a donation because the driver picks the amount. So the only important thing we can take from that example is that for it to be a donation the donator has to have full control over the amount he wants to give.
Also the car wash is a pretty poor analogy with way to many holes to be meaningful. That car wash doesn't have a previous track record of being free but just for this one superwash you get it a little early. In addition, the car wash doesn't have a set release schedule for a stated timetable. Also another reason for the carwash it is called a donation is becuase you are directly giving money to some "charity" whether it be a real charity or a made up one like giving money so we can go to volleyball state championship. Either way you are donating money to that "charity" then they are washing your car sexily. Lastly the solicit the car wash "cost" of a donation up front.
The most important thing though is to look at the situation. Go back anytime last month and look at the state of things. The first thing the dev did was release a rom to the forums, it started gaining in popularity. Then he released some updates, bugfixes and general tweaks. The rom kept getting better and better and faithful users decided that they wanted to inspire the dev to keep up his good work so numurous people, me included, donated. Now I have only been moved to donated 3 times before, to the xda site, and since I was on a touchpro2 to NRG and MightyMike. In every instance I have donated because the people have provided with a very good product that has greatly improved my experience on my phone. Back to the story, We all donated, the dev never asked for it as payment to the rom, the roms were always available, heck there is nearly a 2 month back catalog, and I am sure there are people out there that will swear that each and every release has the best battery, or the best that, etc. So now the dev has a huge update, He has never publicly stated that he is releasing the rom as an early release and an awesome email ends up in my inbox, which can be considered nothing more than a thank you for your support. He has never stated that he is going to continue releasing roms early to donators or if it is a one time deal. Unless the dev makes a statement about it the only logical conclusion that can be drawn is that he will continue to release his rom normally but if he has a huge .1 update then maybe those "benchmark" roms will be release a little early. Since that is the current case.
If someone was to put up a phantom thread with no downloads and start asking for donations for proposed things, get rid of them. That is clearly not the case here.

I don't agree with xda in this.. schizo is a great dev with a great rom and it is fully available to the public for free. Schizo never even brought up the new release in his thread until the donators thanked him for it. Bad move xda for coming down on a dev that's just taking care of his loyal supporters.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App

I have no prob with early releases, but him posting in his thread about the features of an unreleased public rom is considered a teaser and that is why the mods shut him down.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App

othan1 said:
Last thing.
I hate criticizing or supporting rules without exposing loopholes (Lawful Neutral with evil tendencies). Here's what I would do as the dev.
1. Follow the friggin' rules.
2. Make a post such as "Having troubles with the newest Beta for XXX ROM"
3. Ardent followers will recognize that ROM and ask why they don't have it
4. The OP (secondary account for the dev or a friend) will explain it's a paid beta (or "required donation" beta if you prefer) of XXXX user's ROM and can contact him here: [email protected] or however you guys do it.
5. "BUT I DON'T WANNA PAY!!!" Well, I think the dev mentioned it will be open to all on XX/XX/XXXX and he'll make a post when it's freely available as per the rules.
Ta-da. Totally within the rules to ask for assistance on ROMs even when others may or may not have them.
And don't lie. Ever. There is never a reason to lie. Dev, put a small, easily noticed and easily fixed bug in your ROM so it's a legitimate post.
People willing to buy an early beta are happy. XDA is happy. Moderators are happy.
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Thats exactly what happened in the thread, and exactly the point I was trying to get across.
He never said 'donate and you'll get the early releases!!'
The mods on here are independent people and pretty much do whatever the hell they want, so the mod in the Epic forum might be more tight-holed than the one in say, the Hero forum. Where donate-to-get early is the norm.

Well I truly hope the rules at xda are changed or reworded becuase if things are continually enforced that are not in the rules that sounds like a military state.

Man! Speaking of rules I hope ur like 16-17 yourself. Otherwise those are some pedophile type hypotheticals.... lol!
othan1 said:
Because it's not a donation if you have to pay for it to get it.
Let's say you go to one of those car washes...you know, with the 16 year old girls in skimpy bathing suits with the sign, Donations Only. Now, you pull up there and expect a car wash, but they tell you that you have to pay before they'll even start anything. Not knowing how good a job they'll do, you have no idea how much you'd want to pay them so, because you don't want to pay until it's done, they send you to the back of the line until they make enough money to open it to everyone.
Say one guy pays $15 to that donation and, although the view of their supple, tight breasts smashed against his windshield is highly stimulating, they do little to the car but smear mud all over and leave streaks on the window. They're done now. Great show, but that's not why he came to the car wash. He regrets giving that money now because he drives away with blue balls and a dirty car. Not worth the "donation".
Donations are something given for products/services received up front, otherwise, it's called a charge.
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Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App

Rather then changing the rules..I think they should set a presidents on what way it would be considered ok to do this.

One comment on something that was said in the thread that got closed. A few posters there complained about charging for something that's GPL'ed. Actually, it's totally, unambiguously, and 100% legal to charge for things that are GPL'ed. It's also totally, unambiguously, and 100% legal for anyone who acquires a copy of it to turn around and redistribute it -- for free, or for money.
The GPL2 requires that Schiz license his changes under the same terms. So, anybody who donates and downloads the beta release acquires a license to use it under the GPL2. Likewise, the GPL2 requires that Schiz make the source available to those specific users. The GPL2 does NOT require that Schiz bend over backwards to immediately make his changes instantly available for free to the general public. Or ever make them available for free to the general public at all. Officially, you don't become a licensee of Schiz' changes until you either a) donate, and download it from him, or b) he posts it publicly and you download it from wherever he puts it. HOWEVER, the GPL2 also entitles anyone who acquires a copy of Schiz's changes to redistribute them independently of Schiz.
That's the check and balance. If 10 users feel poor/stingy and want to split the cost of a donation so one can grab it and give copies to everyone else, it's 100% legit and legal under the GPL. It would be equally legal for Schiz to get mad and refuse to answer questions from anyone he caught doing that, because the GPL only conveys the right to obtain the source and redistribute it. The GPL conveys no right to tech support. The fact that something is legal doesn't necessarily mean others have to regard it as good and morally acceptable. You have every right to regard someone as an immoral asshole for doing something that's nevertheless completely legal. Big corporations do things that are technically legal every day, and get excoriated for it by Slashdot users on a regular basis
Suppose I use GPL'ed source to develop an internal app used by a major corporation. There's NO requirement that the source to that internal app ever be made available to anyone outside the company, since only the company is the licensee of the modified code. The only time the source has to be made available to anyone outside the company is if the app ends up getting used in an app used by the company's own customers. That's where lots of big companies get into trouble... they'll use GPL'ed code for years for internal vertical-market apps, then slip it into a publicly-released client app without realizing the licensing implications of doing so until it's too late.
Giving another example, it would be absolutely 100% legal for Tivo to charge customers $100 to upgrade to a newer version of their software. However, under GPL2, it would be 100% legal for anyone who paid $100 for it to redistribute it to others -- Tivo-owning or not. Where the GPL2 and GPL3 differ is that under the GPL2, it's entirely legal for Tivo to respond by making their hardware refuse to allow the upgrade unless you also present it with a valid license code. However, even in the case of the GPL3, the intent of the GPL isn't necessarily to enable anyone to take Tivo's software and build his own Tivo from scratch -- it's to guarantee Tivo owners the freedom to hack and modify their own Tivo to better meet their own individual needs and improve it beyond what Tivo itself is willing/able to do.
The point is that the GPL doesn't quite mean what many people believe it does, and in some contexts the distinction between GPL2 and GPL3 are very important. Android is actually Apache-licensed, but because it's inextricably bundled with Linux, it's effectively governed by the GPL2 as well (for the most part).

donating or selling are they the same ??

wow i carnt post about the jig offer because they at xda keep deleting my threads whats that all about then, and whats the differance with donate and selling c**p. Just because i send it via a package they say no selling, what is donate then, selling or donating your services.:

The donation must be voluntary.

Also this should be in the General section.

Well.. In my case:
I provide Voltage Control application for free;
however some volunteers donated money to me voluntarily, making voluntary donation
Donation is like: you can get the product, no matter if you pay or not.
Selling is like: you can get the product, but you MUST pay for it sooner or later.
Hope it is all clear now

Why not "send" ppl a jig only if they "donate"
Fyi this should go in general.

I can understand where you are coming from. You are just trying to help out the community. If you are selling for a profit, then it is taboo in this forum, and go against the very essence of the spirit of Xda.
Ask yourself this, if you are the one, will you allow this?
Just my 2 cents.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk

If this about the usb jig to force a dead sgs into download the idea method and all details are already given freely here. He is only selling it to those who cant wont not able to do it on their own. I think he needs to mention this.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App

Simple question. If i donated a penny then would you send me a jig? If not then there is clearly a set price which classes it as a sale.
Sent From My GalaxyS Iphone Killer

Thats pretty sad - if you can publish a cost breakdown to show that you are not doing this for profit but to help the community, they SHOULD NOT remove it. Sometimes people cant wrap their head around a rule to make exceptions. On the other hand - we'd be swamped by ebay vendors "making screen protectors for the community". I think your project is an exception and has to be treated as such.

SkinBobUk said:
Simple question. If i donated a penny then would you send me a jig? If not then there is clearly a set price which classes it as a sale.
Sent From My GalaxyS Iphone Killer
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You see.. unlike software which is "made once and distributable unlimitedly", he has to make 1 FOR you. If he is kind enough to volunteer his services- you can chose to donate for that or not. But to have him cough up for the cost of material and postage - its ridiculous.

Although this is in the wrong section, I do have to agree that he should certainly be allowed to charge a minimum price for it. The components that make up this jig cost him money, he should be able to charge exactly the same price (plus shipping). In this example, he would have freely volunteered his time to build the jig. So users should then be able to donate money to help compensate him for his time, on-top of this minimum price (if they wish).
However in saying that I think some members of this community has the wrong idea in general. Everything doesn't need to be free and generally should not be free. A good community should want to compensate other members of the same community who have helped out the community as whole. The issue is simply that it's not always practical to charge a fee. Even if a community member wants to compensate someone else for their efforts, it's not always possible or practical. There should be no such situation where someone who has been helped doesn't wish to express the basic human concept of gratitude. Money is not always practical, but in the case of a good community some sort of thanks should always be in order. Gratitude is a form of currency also, especially now that XDA has a thanks button.

Benjamin Dobell said:
Although this is in the wrong section, I do have to agree that he should certainly be allowed to charge a minimum price for it. The components that make up this jig cost him money, he should be able to charge exactly the same price (plus shipping). In this example, he would have freely volunteered his time to build the jig. So users should then be able to donate money to help compensate him for his time, on-top of this minimum price (if they wish).
However in saying that I think some members of this community has the wrong idea in general. Everything doesn't need to be free and generally should not be free. A good community should want to compensate other members of the same community who have helped out the community as whole. The issue is simply that it's not always practical to charge a fee. Even if a community member wants to compensate someone else for their efforts, it's not always possible or practical. There should be no such situation where someone who has been helped doesn't wish to express the basic human concept of gratitude. Money is not always practical, but in the case of a good community some sort of thanks should always be in order. Gratitude is a form of currency also, especially now that XDA has a thanks button.
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Exactly. I agree - and i dont see the same vehemence in people encouraging donations to the devels who work so hard that i see in people protesting against soliciting money.

ragin said:
If this about the usb jig to force a dead sgs into download the idea method and all details are already given freely here. He is only selling it to those who cant wont not able to do it on their own. I think he needs to mention this.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
SkinBobUk said:
Simple question. If i donated a penny then would you send me a jig? If not then there is clearly a set price which classes it as a sale.
Sent From My GalaxyS Iphone Killer
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Click to collapse
ashwinds said:
Thats pretty sad - if you can publish a cost breakdown to show that you are not doing this for profit but to help the community, they SHOULD NOT remove it. Sometimes people cant wrap their head around a rule to make exceptions. On the other hand - we'd be swamped by ebay vendors "making screen protectors for the community". I think your project is an exception and has to be treated as such.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ashwinds said:
You see.. unlike software which is "made once and distributable unlimitedly", he has to make 1 FOR you. If he is kind enough to volunteer his services- you can chose to donate for that or not. But to have him cough up for the cost of material and postage - its ridiculous.
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ok thanks for all replys, origionally i sent an email to xda asking them if i could have a sticky and every sale i would give xda 50p donation which also gives them some support. was i wrong.
As 1 of the readers posted, the parts do cost. At the moment it is quite hard to find the micro USB plugs which are costing roughly between £1.50 and £2.50 locally. The resisters work out at 42p each and there are 2 of them. 1 is a 300k and the other is a 1k. Also the heat sinc tubing is costing about 20p per plug. Then there is the solder, the electric, petrol to fetch the items and finally the postage that works at £1.00. Therefore the is no profit, not to mention that my time to make them is FREE.
All I wanted to do is to support XDA with a donation of 50p for every one sold and help people with illness or bad eyesight or just not the ability to recover their phones with out having to send it back to the service department because of a lack of knowledge in electronics.
P.S. Selecting the wrong pins on the plugs when soldering could potentially wreck your phone and I think it is really courageous of people with no electronic experience to try and do this.
Thanks for all you replys and support. Let's hope XDA support this and give people the chance to support XDA with their donation.

i also believe that because this site is very public and people are free to download the roms it all sounds very easy and things can and will go wrong from time to time.
lets have a safety net.

Right mate. What I suggest you do is put them on ebay and say these are cool on xda, or post them in xdamarketplace. And quit moaning.

HazzBazz said:
Right mate. What I suggest you do is put them on ebay and say these are cool on xda, or post them in xdamarketplace. And quit moaning.
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who's moaning, i realy dont mind putting them out somewhere else, just trying to put a safety net in the same place as the roms. But do other people think there should be this option.
and why do you care anyway who am i to you.

Although I dont know about whole issue, so just posting based upon info in this thread
Your point is totally valid, but the way you presented it might have been wrong.
You could have proceeded like this
I am giving solution of so and so problem... here are steps
All the steps in details with components required...
With usual warning : Try at your own risk
Those who are unwilling to take risk/lack skills could have asked you to assemble components and mail it by paying cost of components + postage
People happy with service/willing to support you could have Voluntary donated......

ok what i have asked xda is, if people send me the parts with a return envolope i will assemble it and then return it, with donations wecome if you like my work.
this is a free service with no commitment to give me anything.

thechamp007 said:
Although I dont know about whole issue, so just posting based upon info in this thread
Your point is totally valid, but the way you presented it might have been wrong.
You could have proceeded like this
I am giving solution of so and so problem... here are steps
All the steps in details with components required...
With usual warning : Try at your own risk
Those who are unwilling to take risk/lack skills could have asked you to assemble components and mail it by paying cost of components + postage
People happy with service/willing to support you could have Voluntary donated......
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
great minds think alike

I've got a better idea.
I don't know how much your selling these for but lets just say £5
I think you should charge £7.50
The £2.50 is a donation to XDA developers to continue running the site, and then you cover your costs.
Personally speaking, I could get these manufactured in bulk for peanuts if you wanted just PM me and i'll do the work - they will be coming from China though...

Let's make a big campaign to get JB's kernel for Atrix!

Hello guys,
Recently Motorola canceled ICS update for Atrix, but i'm wondering: did they started the dev and left middle way, or did nothing at all? If they stopped middle way, we might be able to use they kernel (it's what we need right now), and that would be awesome.
Ofc, Motorola won't release them easily. But what if we ask? What if we make a campaign on social networks and Android websites, and make it really loud? I'm sure i saw this happening for other stuffs, so why not our phone?
My idea is pretty simple:
We setup a hotsite with a simple message and users just have to click on the button referent to his social network to share the campaign. On Twitter, we can mention Motorola's profile, to be sure they are hearing us.
I already have the template ready, and it looks kinda like this: http://takemymoneyhbo.com/tweetit.php
I also have a VPS with Nginx + microcache, PHP-FPM and APC ready to go, so it's able to handle a big spikes of traffic (Digg/Reddit effect). What i need right now is the domain and, ofc, the message to be posted on social networks and on the hotsite itself.
We also would need to think about a name for this campaign (the name of the domain). Like i said, server is ready, template is ready, we only need the messages and a domain, since i can't pay for that at the moment.
As an alternative, we could also use this idea to get JB officially, but i think most of us would install a custom ROM anyway.
List of suggested domains so far:
icanhasdrivers.com
icanhasics.com
retakemotoatrix.com
myphonecanhasICS.com
weonlyneedyourkernel.com
updatemymoto.com (the chosen one)
What do you guys think? Worth doing it? Anyone up to pay for the domain? I will setup a donation button, if anyone is up for paying a domain, just donate
EDIT: The name of the campaign will be Update My Moto! The message for the hotsite and how it looks, can be see here: http://i48.tinypic.com/51eb95.png
As soon as we get the domain, i will close this thread and create a official one for the campaign. Let's rock guys!
Obs: sorry for my English.

might work if you also include other way to file a complaint against moto like via BBB. Motorola might not care about us when we complain to them but moto might care about losing the BBB accreditation. So include other methods like that.

Deafcyclist said:
might work if you also include other way to file a complaint against moto like via BBB. Motorola might not care about us when we complain to them but moto might care about losing the BBB accreditation. So include other methods like that.
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You can count me in on making as much noise as we can on the matter.

I think it is worth trying. I doubt we would succeed. But worth trying anyway.
So all you need is a domain? No hosting account?
What about:
icanhasdrivers.com or icanhasics.com

upndwn4par said:
I think it is worth trying. I doubt we would succeed. But worth trying anyway.
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Click to collapse
Why you doubt it will succeed? I can try to get it on Gizmodo and lots of other bug websites, since i myself own a big Ubuntu website at Brazil. I think we can make this get pretty big, and Motorola would end up listening.
upndwn4par said:
So all you need is a domain? No hosting account?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes. We need to come up with a good name for the campaign and a good domain. I also need someone to pay for the domain, since with all the servers i already pay and other stuffs, i'm pretty much out of money haha
Oh, we also need a message that cause impact.
upndwn4par said:
What about:
icanhasdrivers.com or icanhasics.com
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Added to the suggestion list
Deafcyclist said:
might work if you also include other way to file a complaint against moto like via BBB. Motorola might not care about us when we complain to them but moto might care about losing the BBB accreditation. So include other methods like that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What is "BBB"? I'm sorry, don't think i know it. But as long as it have a share-able link, i'm able to add it.

julian_fern said:
Why you doubt it will succeed? I can try to get it on Gizmodo and lots of other bug websites, since i myself own a big Ubuntu website at Brazil. I think we can make this get pretty big, and Motorola would end up listening.
Yes. We need to come up with a good name for the campaign and a good domain. I also need someone to pay for the domain, since with all the servers i already pay and other stuffs, i'm pretty much out of money haha
Oh, we also need a message that cause impact.
Added to the suggestion list
What is "BBB"? I'm sorry, don't think i know it. But as long as it have a share-able link, i'm able to add it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
"BBB" Stands for the Better Business Bureau. It's a consumer agency that takes complaints and helps direct it at the appropriate place. They work with the company and consumer to resolve the dispute. They cover businesses ranging from carpet cleaning to food to cell phone companies. Some companies tout their high rating with the BBB, like a report card, so they value it staying high.

How about retakemotoatrix.com or nomoremotofail.com

I kinda like the ring to "RetakeMotoAtrix"
Sent from my MB860 using xda premium

Lugaidster said:
How about retakemotoatrix.com or nomoremotofail.com
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we need to gather more moto users (photon, etc)
myphonecanhasICS
icanhasics.com --> the best so far

Vote me in. I have already tweeted with hashtag #motofail

Anything with "icanhas" it's too meme-ish to be taken seriously, IMO.
Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk 2

I doubt Motofail will care about all the noise.

http://www.change.org/petitions/motorola-mobility-update-my-phone

I'm sick and tired of these corporations/companies walking all over dedicated customers and getting away with it, so you can count me in as well. Even if we don't succeed, I'd be glad to get back at this lying, backstabbing company with some negative publicity.

I don't think it will work because big corporations are stupid. They look at us and think they have only pissed off a few thousand users. They forget that people like us tend to be tech support/advisers for our friends and family.
I agree with jhonnyx that we will need support from other device groups too. I know the Photon got screwed, but what other devices? It would be helpful to post in their forums as well. This should also not be limited to xda. There are many other forums as well. Maybe once we get a little more organized. This will have to be a huge effort to succeed.
This campaign will also have to be clean and catchy. Nothing related to motofail. Motorola will never draw attention or succumb to anything like this.

Why not motoupgwanted... That way it could be used for more then just us?
All you need is domain? Cost what $10 a year, why not set up donation button I'm sure you can get 20 of us to give .50 cents (cost est)
Sent from my MB860 using xda premium

I have already submitted the following post in the usual Atrix ICS thread but I thought it would be useful in this tread as well.
"Just wanted to provide another pointer as to why it is possible to take legal actions and possibly criminal prosecution, in countries where it applies, against Google/Motorola. Security fixes, rather the lack of, from GB 2.3.4 to JB 4.0.1. You want to remember the latest security flaw in Android about a crafted web page that can wipe Android phones without a possibility to recover the lost data.
Why Atrix users should be left without the security fixes and how Google will propose a solution?"
Furthermore to what I have said in above I am certain that only a legal campaign will solve this problem, anything else would be waste of energy.
We already have enough valid technical reasons to argue the case but we need members with legal expertise in matters like this. In my opinion launching two legal precedents, one in Europe and the other in USA, would get us to a proper settlement. Please remember this is not really about just Atrix whereas about two corporates that ripped off consumers without a shame in bright day light.

Hey Motorola, just give us the drivers we want, and step away from the Atrix!
Seriously, is that too much to ask?

Count me in.
However, I also don't believe Moto will deliver. But if we can make some bad publicity to them, let's do it. They deserve it.
And...
Fishmoose said:
Anything with "icanhas" it's too meme-ish to be taken seriously, IMO.
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Click to collapse
... I agree.

Im in and also i wrote in the photon forum.
Sent from my MB860 using xda app-developers app