Database Users

[Q] so 720p/1080p video is a myth?

read too much in these forums, formatted too much on my comp.
i have got nothing but choppy video and sound delays. I dont buy into the tegra2 not being able to play 720p, that is complete crap.
but my concern is has anyone really been able to achieve some sweet 720p video? and if so can you let us know how you did so?
i have ALOT of converters so im ready to try once more before i begin to hate my life.
PS: I have absolutely no credible sources when i say this, but i believe a update of some sort will occur by this coming sunday (first week of march)

dudeimgeorge said:
read too much in these forums, formatted too much on my comp.
i have got nothing but choppy video and sound delays. I dont buy into the tegra2 not being able to play 720p, that is complete crap.
but my concern is has anyone really been able to achieve some sweet 720p video? and if so can you let us know how you did so?
i have ALOT of converters so im ready to try once more before i begin to hate my life.
PS: I have absolutely no credible sources when i say this, but i believe a update of some sort will occur by this coming sunday (first week of march)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Click the link in my sig and scroll down to Video section.

Use Handbrake. Simple and works great.
Set Video kbps to 2200
Set Audio to 160 kbps and samplerate to 48
On audio I also moved DRC to 4.0
Movies look great. Just make sure it is saving to mp4 and not m4v.

dudeimgeorge said:
read too much in these forums, formatted too much on my comp.
i have got nothing but choppy video and sound delays. I dont buy into the tegra2 not being able to play 720p, that is complete crap.
but my concern is has anyone really been able to achieve some sweet 720p video? and if so can you let us know how you did so?
i have ALOT of converters so im ready to try once more before i begin to hate my life.
PS: I have absolutely no credible sources when i say this, but i believe a update of some sort will occur by this coming sunday (first week of march)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Most of the people haven't even gotten their Xooms yet. It IS unfortunate that it doesn't come with 720p decoding build-in, but we know for a fact that Tegra2 can handle even 1080p.
So, like it or not, we'll just have to wait a bit. I'm sure they are working on proper harware-accelerated codecs. Even if Moto isn't, tons of private developers do.
We're early to the party, so grab a beer, sit down and wait for everyone to come =)

your my boy

dudeimgeorge said:
my concern is has anyone really been able to achieve some sweet 720p video? and if so can you let us know how you did so?
i have ALOT of converters so im ready to try once more before i begin to hate my life.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just converted a 1080 trailer of Ice Age 4 to an MP4 file of 1920x800 res, 5000Kbps H264 video, and it plays fine.

I use Total Video Converter & it works great..!!

lacesout said:
Use Handbrake. Simple and works great.
Set Video kbps to 2200
Set Audio to 160 kbps and samplerate to 48
On audio I also moved DRC to 4.0
Movies look great. Just make sure it is saving to mp4 and not m4v.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is 160 kbps for the audio going to sound that much better than 128? And is the DRC 4 going to be that different?

keitht said:
Click the link in my sig and scroll down to Video section.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I love you..

Ill have to give some fine tuning a chance with my videos. I just coverted a 720p copy of inception using handbrake. I used the apple preset as its listed to work with ipad so i figured it wouldnt be much difference. While the movie and audio do play as they are supposed to im not happy with the frame rate. Its by no means unwatchable. But it is not nearly as fluid as i would like and the irregularity in framerate isnt even consistent. It gets choppier(i use the term loosely) at different intervals almost like im watching a streaming video or playing on a computer whos resources are tapped out. its really annoying because i cant even really gauge the consistency of it becuase its an inconsistent problem.
Im gonna try the settings someone a few post up suggested and see if that works out better. But even if they do its really a shame as most brain dead people can use an ipad. But they expect your average consumer to be able to do all this just to play a frikkin video and still call this thing an ipad competitor?

dudeimgeorge said:
read too much in these forums, formatted too much on my comp.
i have got nothing but choppy video and sound delays. I dont buy into the tegra2 not being able to play 720p, that is complete crap.
but my concern is has anyone really been able to achieve some sweet 720p video? and if so can you let us know how you did so?
i have ALOT of converters so im ready to try once more before i begin to hate my life.
PS: I have absolutely no credible sources when i say this, but i believe a update of some sort will occur by this coming sunday (first week of march)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No one ever said that Tegra 2 can't play 720p. People have said that it can't play 720p high profile, which is pretty much all 720P that one doesn't encode themselves. Basically not all hd video is created equal. Others have said that it can play 720p but is just lacking some codecs.

verusevo said:
Im gonna try the settings someone a few post up suggested and see if that works out better. But even if they do its really a shame as most brain dead people can use an ipad. But they expect your average consumer to be able to do all this just to play a frikkin video and still call this thing an ipad competitor?
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Click to collapse
Apple wants all their customers to just buy stuff of iTunes, so if you do that, it's braindead, but if not, they're in the same boat as us. It only plays 720p baseline (I hear XMBC for it can do 720p high profile, but you have to jailbreak to install it) so it needs to be converted too. Handbreak with presets is what I've been doing for my iPhone 3G, 4, and now Dell Streak.
I've been researching this alot this weekend, and to summarize the issue with 720p/1020p video, the deal is with the various bitrates and profiles of h264 video in particular. NVIDIA Tegra 2 and Motorola only claim to support 720p and 1080p baseline profile. So, for conversion workarounds, there is a Handbrake preset - See Keitht's post. I don't consider this an acceptable solution of course. I keep hearing that Notion Ink Adam's can play 720p high profile after an update. It would be nice to have that player on the Xoom - follow this thread here for info on that. As for now, QQPlayer does the best for 720p high profile - my eyeball guess is that it's playing 10fps now... someone on the forums here did the 1.5ghz overclock and said it's "acceptable" but I don't feel like overclocking my xoom 50% myself
So, I think this will be addressed, eventually. There are WAY to many Tegra 2 devices coming out for someone NOT to invest the time into getting a good player for it - LG's slate, Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1, Motorola Atrix, etc etc are all going to be Tegra 2 based.

The details in this thread definitely work, and work well. Yes it is going to take a while to convert things and yes that is a pain the ass to re-encode everything but the results ARE worth it.
THANKS

*SIGH* the trials and tribulations of the educated consumer.... why do they mock us so?!?

Great this definitely works. Just finished up a convert of Megamind 720p and it is smooth as silk.

Phylar said:
Apple wants all their customers to just buy stuff of iTunes, so if you do that, it's braindead, but if not, they're in the same boat as us. It only plays 720p baseline (I hear XMBC for it can do 720p high profile, but you have to jailbreak to install it) so it needs to be converted too. Handbreak with presets is what I've been doing for my iPhone 3G, 4, and now Dell Streak.
I've been researching this alot this weekend, and to summarize the issue with 720p/1020p video, the deal is with the various bitrates and profiles of h264 video in particular. NVIDIA Tegra 2 and Motorola only claim to support 720p and 1080p baseline profile. So, for conversion workarounds, there is a Handbrake preset - See Keitht's post. I don't consider this an acceptable solution of course. I keep hearing that Notion Ink Adam's can play 720p high profile after an update. It would be nice to have that player on the Xoom - follow this thread here for info on that. As for now, QQPlayer does the best for 720p high profile - my eyeball guess is that it's playing 10fps now... someone on the forums here did the 1.5ghz overclock and said it's "acceptable" but I don't feel like overclocking my xoom 50% myself
So, I think this will be addressed, eventually. There are WAY to many Tegra 2 devices coming out for someone NOT to invest the time into getting a good player for it - LG's slate, Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1, Motorola Atrix, etc etc are all going to be Tegra 2 based.
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Funny because I ordered a Notion Ink Adam before the Xoom came out and should ship next week. Since I got the Xoom, I do not want to open the box so I can sell it brand new unopened. Wish I could at least test the video.

So can anyone tell me does the "High Profile" mean like high compression because when I am doing re-encodes with the previous posted Handbrake settings I am seeing almost double the file output size of the original?

Nvious1 said:
So can anyone tell me does the "High Profile" mean like high compression because when I am doing re-encodes with the previous posted Handbrake settings I am seeing almost double the file output size of the original?
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The profile setting indicates the quality of the video stream. There are lots of different profiles within the h.264/avc/mpeg-4 standards but the most common are (snaffled from wikipedia):
Baseline Profile (BP)
Primarily for low-cost applications that require additional data loss robustness, this profile is used in some videoconferencing and mobile applications. This profile includes all features that are supported in the Constrained Baseline Profile, plus three additional features that can be used for loss robustness (or for other purposes such as low-delay multi-point video stream compositing). The importance of this profile has faded somewhat since the definition of the Constrained Baseline Profile in 2009. All Constrained Baseline Profile bitstreams are also considered to be Baseline Profile bitstreams, as these two profiles share the same profile identifier code value.
Constrained Baseline Profile (CBP)
Primarily for low-cost applications, this profile is most typically used in videoconferencing and mobile applications. It corresponds to the subset of features that are in common between the Baseline, Main, and High Profiles described below.
Main Profile (MP)
This profile is used for standard-definition digital TV broadcasts that use the MPEG-4 format as defined in the DVB standard.[20] It is not, however, used for high-definition television broadcasts, as the importance of this profile faded when the High Profile was developed in 2004 for that application.
High Profile (HiP)
The primary profile for broadcast and disc storage applications, particularly for high-definition television applications (for example, this is the profile adopted by the Blu-ray Disc storage format and the DVB HDTV broadcast service).
You'll probably find a lot of movies available via "usual sources" are in high profile. On mobile devices these usually require some form of hardware acceleration to play due to the high bitrate. Not sure if there are many tablets that can play 1080p high profile natively. The Galaxy Tab is certainly one, but those devices with Tegra 2 chipsets do seem to have a hardware limitation with regards to playing high profile (and hence high bitrate) video. It'll be interesting to see how the Samsung 10.1 fares, as that happens to also have the Tegra 2 chipset. Samsung have always been good at hardware accelerating video, so it would be a backwards step for them to release a new device that can't play media that their previous device could.

paul so basically the xoom can only do 720 p baseline?
do apps like Rockplayer and Vplayer help? (without converting)

SS2006 said:
paul so basically the xoom can only do 720 p baseline?
do apps like Rockplayer and Vplayer help? (without converting)
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Click to collapse
I'm sure 720p baseline should be fine with any player. 1080p baseline should be fine. Probably main profile too. The problems arise with high profile HD material, which unfortunately is what a lot of stuff out there is encoded with. Then again, I guess most people aren't going to stuff HD movies on their tablets. The 4GB max file size on fat32 gets in the way as much as anything else .
As an aside. I've been using Plex server to transcode and stream movies (including bluray rips) from nas to tablet (running Plex player) with excellent results. But that's probably best left for another topic...

XOOM vs Ipad 2 Video playback

Ipad 2:
Video formats supported: H.264 video up to 720p, 30 frames per second, Main Profile level 3.1 with AAC-LC audio up to 160 Kbps, 48kHz, stereo audio in .m4v, .mp4, and .mov file formats; MPEG-4 video, up to 2.5 Mbps, 640 by 480 pixels, 30 frames per second, Simple Profile with AAC-LC audio up to 160 Kbps per channel, 48kHz, stereo audio in .m4v, .mp4, and .mov file formats; Motion JPEG (M-JPEG) up to 35 Mbps, 1280 by 720 pixels, 30 frames per second, audio in ulaw, PCM stereo audio in .avi file format
XOOM:
If you stick with H.264 Baseline Profile, you can achieve up to 1920x1080p at 30 fps at 20Mbps.
Baseline Profile means:
- No CABAC entropy coding.
- No B frames
- No 8x8 transforms (DCT)
- No Weighted Prediction
For 1280x720p at 30 fps, you can go up to 20Mbps and Motorola XOOM should still be able to handle it. More Realistically, depending on the content, you can get away with 4Mbps and up with varying degrees of quality. If you are tight on space, use 4Mbps. If you want something to look good you can use 10/12 Mbps. At some point though the higher the bitrate will only translate to decreasing amounts of quality improvement. In other words, 20Mbps will probably look as good as 15Mbps, but will just use up more space. Ultimately, there is really no one size fits all solution and it may take a little experimentation to find the settings that work best for the content you wish to view.
Additionally your device does not have a limitation on certain types of B frames (Main profile tool). So you can add in B frames and not affect performance that much. If you are using a encoding tool that uses B frames, such as QuickTime Pro, you should be able to achieve main profile encoding.
If you are using a lower resolution that 720p (such as 720x480 resolution size) in order to encode longer length video , you can get away with using more tools (High and Main profile tools). However, encoding become more complex and may require more experimentation to achieve acceptable results.
In general, if you are concern about performance, use baseline tools and possibly b-frames (with no weighted prediction). This will give you the best performance.
Also as side note, if you are upscaling from a DVD to 720p try to use the best upscaling algorithm provided and don't expect to get true 720p quality from upscaled DVD.
Looks like Xoom is a tad bit better in terms of supported Hardware video decode capabilities.
In terms of GPU - it seems that the Ipad 2 may have a bit of an edge with the new power VR 543 - though this is not official as there are no direct comparisons yet.

Well my Epic4g with the Powervr SGX540 plays back high profile 720p FLAWLESSLY. The iPad will be capable of much more than that with the newer chip. The video standards that they "support" are the ones that they use through itunes and in no way represent the highest possible encoding of video that will play back. The instant XBMC hits the iPad2, I expect at least 1080p main profile to work since 1080p high profile ALMOST works on the iPad1.

muyoso said:
Well my Epic4g with the Powervr SGX540 plays back high profile 720p FLAWLESSLY. The iPad will be capable of much more than that with the newer chip. The video standards that they "support" are the ones that they use through itunes and in no way represent the highest possible encoding of video that will play back. The instant XBMC hits the iPad2, I expect at least 1080p main profile to work since 1080p high profile ALMOST works on the iPad1.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What's that you say, the iPad can output 1080p? Well sort of. The iPad can mirror its 1024x768 display in 1080p but it still won't decode 1080p H.264 videos, and we don't know what type of TV you have, but we'd bet ours does a little bit better job of scaling than the magical iPad. All that being said, the iPad 2's new form factor will increase its desirability as a couch companion --not to mention we'll buy anything with magnets -- but an HD source device, not so much.
That's from engadget
http://hd.engadget.com/2011/03/02/the-ipad-2-and-1080p-theres-nothing-to-see-here/

There are a lot of threads about xoom video limitations.
Am I the only person who just copied dvd rips from my iTunes folder straight to the xoom, and watch them with zero issues?
Maybe my handbrake settings arent top-notch, but the quality/size trade off worked fine on my old I pad, and work fine for the xoom. If I wanted full crazy HD, i'd watch from the blu-ray disk directly, on a TV that does it justice.
Am I crazy?
Sent from my Xoom using XDA App

It won't do it officially. Once it its jailbroken though it will have xbmc and will have ridiculous capabilities. For example the current ipad can play 720p high profile with xbmc now.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App

Bauxite said:
Because the specs page for the iPad 2 lists SO many more formats.... stop trolling.
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What the specs page lists for the iPad 2 is irrelevant. Here my iPad1 playing a 720p [email protected] h.264 mkv file:
http://vimeo.com/20636064
Pretty sure the iPad never had that listed on its specs page. For a comparison, here is the Notion Ink and the Xoom playing back that exact same clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXWu6m33EP0&feature=player_detailpage#t=231s

muyoso said:
What the specs page lists for the iPad 2 is irrelevant. Here my iPad1 playing a 720p [email protected] h.264 mkv file:
http://vimeo.com/20636064
Pretty sure the iPad never had that listed on its specs page.
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How long did it take from the MOMENT the iPad was released to when that became supported by some app?
People act like just because there are no apps RIGHT NOW for the xoom to play additional formats that there never ever will be.

Bauxite said:
How long did it take from the MOMENT the iPad was released to when that became supported by some app?
People act like just because there are no apps RIGHT NOW for the xoom to play additional formats that there never ever will be.
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It took a while for XBMC to be ported, 9 months or so. Dont know if they were working on it that entire time. The reason people act like that BTW is because the Tegra 2 is incapable of hardware decoding [email protected] or higher. Here is the guy who ported XBMC to the iPad and AppleTV and who was tasked with porting to Tegra 2 devices talking about it:
http://forum.xbmc.org/showpost.php?p=735285&postcount=41
Believe me, I wish that were not the case. Wants me some Xoom or Galaxy Tab 10.1 action.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the only thing difference I seem to see from baseline and high profile h.264 is compression. My Xoom is fully capable of displaying the converted 720p mkvs with no chop/stutter in widescreen format on its screen. I've yet to test out hdmi out to my TV though.
Unless you want to talk about bitrate, but I can hardly tell the difference in quality loss vs source on something that I downloaded off the internet.

iceytea said:
Correct me if I'm wrong but the only thing difference I seem to see from baseline and high profile h.264 is compression. My Xoom is fully capable of displaying the converted 720p mkvs with no chop/stutter in widescreen format on its screen. I've yet to test out hdmi out to my TV though.
Unless you want to talk about bitrate, but I can hardly tell the difference in quality loss vs source on something that I downloaded off the internet.
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Oh there is no doubt that you can convert the video to play back perfectly on the Xoom. That isn't in question. I personally just think its ridiculous to have to.
Good read on the differences here, especially on page 3:
http://www.polycom.com/global/documents/whitepapers/h264_high_profile_wp.pdf
Warning, above is a direct link to a pdf.

Thanks for the read, I skimmed it and it pretty much sums up as higher compression without visual quality loss. I never put it together that the development of high profile was used for bandwidth savings though, interesting.

muyoso said:
Oh there is no doubt that you can convert the video to play back perfectly on the Xoom. That isn't in question. I personally just think its ridiculous to have to.
Good read on the differences here, especially on page 3:
http://www.polycom.com/global/documents/whitepapers/h264_high_profile_wp.pdf
Warning, above is a direct link to a pdf.
Click to expand...
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Thank you for your posts, and yes, I COMPLETELY AGREE with you! Once I began my due diligence today comparing the iPad 1, iPad 2, and the Xoom I thought to see if high profile h.264 was supported.
I was shocked to find out that the Tegra 2's hw (and Nvidia has confirmed this) does not support high profile h.264. BUT.... the iPad 1 does?! It's ridiculous quite frankly, and in my eyes, Tegra 2 is partial failure because of it.
Anyway, iPad 1 handles that Planet Earth clip (i.e. the de facto pseudo h.264 720p/1080p benchmark for years it seems!) beautifully. How's the batter life when watching h.264? How long can you get? Also, I would think the iPad 2 is capable of 1080p high profile yes?
In any event, I won't be buying a zoom. For the steeper price point, that is just insulting. I'm gonna try to find one of the remnant ipad 1s from Verizon that have been creeping around for ~$300, however unlikely at that price point it may be to find!
Kudos to your efforts and exposing this massive fault in the Xoom. I have NEVER been a fan of reconversion of the years, from divx in its earliest days through xvid (when apple ironically pushed 'reconversion' into mainstream)... glad that w/ this bad boy that won't be necessary as I'd never do it, too much hassle and insulting, imho.

Not being able to play 720p videos is the main reason I returned the xoom. If I am forced to convert videos I might as well do it for the ipad.

I am so tempted to sell my xoom because of this video playback issue...
I have a lot of bluray rips and I cant watch them on the xoom.
They were encoded using the Apple TV2 preset in handbrake, which I'm guessing is high profile

Oh wow, if this is that serious most of the Honeycomb tablets will be losing quite a lot of sells. I hope Samsung doesn't use the Tegra in their tabs. I'm fine with their Exynos, assuming it has the amazing codec support their Hummingbird does.

Its not the chip ( http://www.nvidia.com/object/tegra-2.html ) supports 1080p h264 just fine. As it stands right now, best I have been able to gather, it is a software/firmware (likely drivers) issue causing the poor playback.

pjcforpres said:
Its not the chip ( http://www.nvidia.com/object/tegra-2.html ) supports 1080p h264 just fine. As it stands right now, best I have been able to gather, it is a software/firmware (likely drivers) issue causing the poor playback.
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That would seem to make since, but I believe in Google...A phrase I never thought I would be saying ever lol.

Sorry. But there isn't much doubt at this time that it IS in fact the "chip"
There are dozens upon dozens upon dozens of articles at this point citing the same thing: Tegra 2 CANNOT DECODE HIGH PROFILE VIDEO.
Period.
If you need me to cite about 50 different sources, I would be happy to do so.

Digital Man said:
Sorry. But there isn't much doubt at this time that it IS in fact the "chip"
There are dozens upon dozens upon dozens of articles at this point citing the same thing: Tegra 2 CANNOT DECODE HIGH PROFILE VIDEO.
Period.
If you need me to cite about 50 different sources, I would be happy to do so.
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No, no, I'll take your word for it. I guess some of us were hoping that it was just a honeycomb issue that would be fixed with an update.

pjcforpres said:
Its not the chip ( http://www.nvidia.com/object/tegra-2.html ) supports 1080p h264 just fine. As it stands right now, best I have been able to gather, it is a software/firmware (likely drivers) issue causing the poor playback.
Click to expand...
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The Xoom can play baseline 1080p h.264. The Xoom cannot play 720p high profile h.264. I would venture to guess that 90% of all video that people have that they didn't videotape themselves is high profile h.264 with 9.99% of the remainder being main profile h.264.
hakujin said:
Anyway, iPad 1 handles that Planet Earth clip (i.e. the de facto pseudo h.264 720p/1080p benchmark for years it seems!) beautifully. How's the batter life when watching h.264? How long can you get? Also, I would think the iPad 2 is capable of 1080p high profile yes?
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The iPad 1 handles the Planet Earth clip perfectly, but do realize that it is a jailbroken iPad with XBMC installed. The iPad does not natively support high profile h.264 even though the hardware is capable, because Apple wants you to buy media through iTunes.
The iPad 2 SHOULD be capable of 1080p high profile, but we won't know for sure until it too is jailbroken and XBMC is installed/optimized.

For Those That Doubted The Xooms Full HD Playback

Like the thread title says ive seen way too many posts bashing the playback quality so to those people watch this video on your xooms browser and you will be impressed and appreciate it more
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?deskto...e.com/watch?v=iFohN2-Hqhg&v=iFohN2-Hqhg&gl=US

I think most people are talking about videos that they load onto the device sometimes has choppy playback. We know YouTube plays great. I haven't loaded much onto my device yet but you do experience some slowdown or choppyness I some videos. Most play without a hitch for me though
Sent from my Xoom

I have several blu ray rips on mine and I haven't experienced any issues so far I converted using handbrake

I think the issue is the software people use to rip.

Granted I don't have my Xoom yet but I've read a lot of threads in preparation and I think the problem is the profile used to rip rather than the software. Apparently high profile 720p isn't working on the Xoom.
Hopefully it's a codec thing and fixable by either Moto adding the codecs or some third party app like CorePlayer.
Sent from my Desire HD using XDA App

PaulG1488 said:
I have several blu ray rips on mine and I haven't experienced any issues so far I converted using handbrake
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I dont have my Xoom yet, but just so i know for when i get it, what profile/settings do you use for the converted rip?

kcm117 said:
I dont have my Xoom yet, but just so i know for when i get it, what profile/settings do you use for the converted rip?
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There is a Xoom profile out there that works perfectly. See middle of this page http://www.xoomfaq.com/video/
1080p is a size not a measure of quality. I had a standard def camera that will shoot a better picture than my handheld HD cam and will shoot better than any phone or tablet camera. I do not know many that can tell the difference between high quality 720 vs 1080. Probably the same folks that can tell the difference between a 160kbps MP3 file vs a 300kbps one
Real HD, that plays off your BluRay player, is 48 Mbit/s. No tablet made today can play that level of quality.

Just because nobody mentioned it..
The problem was/is that users feel that most downloadable HD content files should not have to be re-encoded to play on an $600-$800 device. It is not that we can't use handbrake, or can't figure out how to download the preset which has already been posted on XDA. It is time consuming.
I got over it though, because watching 720P Tv shows on the train with the Xoom is awesome.

I loaded a Kenny vs. Spenny episode onto a store display via my Evo's bluetooth and it played fine. If the videos I converted for my Evo work on my Xoom, then that's fine with me, and it looks like they will. I cant tell the difference between 720 and 1080 on a 10 inch screen unless I stare so hard I get a head ache anyway.

DebianDog said:
There is a Xoom profile out there that works perfectly. See middle of this page http://www.xoomfaq.com/video/
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The link provided takes you to a page with XML code...how do you import this to Handbrake? Did you create a notepad file, copy/paste the text, and rename it with a .plist or .xml extension? I couldn't find any info on this in the Handbrake wiki.

As others have stated, its a tegra 2 issue. Tegra 2 is incapable of playing high profile h.264 video @ L4.1 or higher. Its a limitation of the video decode processor. As it stands right now, no tegra2 device has been seen playing ANY high profile video at all smoothly. Tegra 2 can play some main profile h.264 as long as its encoded exactly how the tegra2 likes it, ie no b frames etc.
The reason people like myself take issue with this is that the original ipad can play 720p high profile h.264 and my epic4g can play 720p high profile h.264. Neither of these devices were sold as being particularly capable of playing hd content. The xoom on the other hand was specifically sold as being able to play hd content, and the tegra.2 was advertised at being particlarly good at doing so. Then when both the xoom and tegra 2 are released we come to realize that it was a bs marketing ploy and "technically" it can display videos that are 720p and 1080p, but only if they are formatted in a ridiculously specific encode.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App

muyoso said:
As others have stated, its a tegra 2 issue. Tegra 2 is incapable of playing high profile h.264 video @ L4.1 or higher. Its a limitation of the video decode processor. As it stands right now, no tegra2 device has been seen playing ANY high profile video at all smoothly. Tegra 2 can play some main profile h.264 as long as its encoded exactly how the tegra2 likes it, ie no b frames etc.
The reason people like myself take issue with this is that the original ipad can play 720p high profile h.264 and my epic4g can play 720p high profile h.264. Neither of these devices were sold as being particularly capable of playing hd content. The xoom on the other hand was specifically sold as being able to play hd content, and the tegra.2 was advertised at being particlarly good at doing so. Then when both the xoom and tegra 2 are released we come to realize that it was a bs marketing ploy and "technically" it can display videos that are 720p and 1080p, but only if they are formatted in a ridiculously specific encode.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
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This pretty much sums it up.
While I'm keeping my Xoom and have made peace with transcoding my videos I'd be lying if I said I wasn't expecting more from the video playback when I bought it.

MichaelWestin said:
Just because nobody mentioned it..
The problem was/is that users feel that most downloadable HD content files should not have to be re-encoded to play on an $600-$800 device. It is not that we can't use handbrake, or can't figure out how to download the preset which has already been posted on XDA. It is time consuming.
I got over it though, because watching 720P Tv shows on the train with the Xoom is awesome.
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This nails the issue right on the head. Most 720p TV shows available on Usenet or via Bittorrent are encoded using video codec H264 "high" settings. From what I've read, the xoom struggles to play these files, which I would not have expected given its hardware specs. I'm still going to pick up a wifi-only model from Costco on Sunday, but I may jump to the Galaxy Tab if it is able to play "high" H264 files.

patass said:
I cant tell the difference between 720 and 1080 on a 10 inch screen unless I stare so hard I get a head ache anyway.
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DebianDog said:
I do not know many that can tell the difference between high quality 720 vs 1080.
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I'm pretty sure I read awhile back that for small screens (like 27" and smaller), if you're sitting/standing within a distance (say within 10 feet) it is pretty much impossible to tell if something is 720p vs 1080p. It only becomes more apparent on larger screens. Other people have mentioned it's probably too difficult to tell on a 10.1" screen, but I'm pretty sure it IS impossible to tell by just looking at it on a screen of that size. So 1080p is just overkill to me, only if you're going to output it on a large screen or something.

pekosROB said:
I'm pretty sure I read awhile back that for small screens (like 27" and smaller), if you're sitting/standing within a distance (say within 10 feet) it is pretty much impossible to tell if something is 720p vs 1080p. It only becomes more apparent on larger screens. Other people have mentioned it's probably too difficult to tell on a 10.1" screen, but I'm pretty sure it IS impossible to tell by just looking at it on a screen of that size. So 1080p is just overkill to me, only if you're going to output it on a large screen or something.
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Click to collapse
You have it wrong. You lose the ability to distinguish the resolution the further away from the screen you get. Since a tablet is right in front of you, you can certainly tell the difference. That said, it isn't really relevant because the Xoom only has a 720p screen and that isn't the point. We already have 1080p video encoded for use on other devices/screens and we don't want to have to re-encode them to play on the Xoom.

khov07 said:
The link provided takes you to a page with XML code...how do you import this to Handbrake? Did you create a notepad file, copy/paste the text, and rename it with a .plist or .xml extension? I couldn't find any info on this in the Handbrake wiki.
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Try this one

sangreal06 said:
That said, it isn't really relevant because the Xoom only has a 720p screen and that isn't the point.
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Click to collapse
Yeah, totally forgot to mention that. 1280x800 definitely can't play full 1080p.
And yeah, I didn't factor in the "you sit way closer to a tablet than a TV factor," but I still would find it hard to believe that people could tell the difference of 720p vs 1080p on a 10.1" screen (even if you are 1-2 feet away, assuming the screen does support 1080p). Definitely not old people - my parents at first didn't see the difference between SD and HD. Now they can definitely tell and even laugh about how they couldn't distinguish the two at first.
Yes, they don't have the best eyesight at their age now. This is why I usually drive when we go somewhere.

sangreal06 said:
You have it wrong. You lose the ability to distinguish the resolution the further away from the screen you get. Since a tablet is right in front of you, you can certainly tell the difference. That said, it isn't really relevant because the Xoom only has a 720p screen and that isn't the point. We already have 1080p video encoded for use on other devices/screens and we don't want to have to re-encode them to play on the Xoom.
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I have the "problem" that I ripped all my movies and shows to fit my iPod classic screen (and the car stereo) at 640x480. I unless I want to watch a mini video I'll have to convert the movies anyway. I don't see what the big deal is. If you change your hardware you should expect to run into some kind of trouble. And honestly, our 720p HDTV in the kitchen has a brilliant picture and is hardly any different from the 1080p HDTVs that we have in other rooms.

The "big deal" is for warez peeps who can't play their warez HD videos. They know nothing about video encoding, and they don't want to know. But they do like to get on forums to whine about how they can't play their stolen goods. I've explained enough times that I feel like a broken record, but willful ignorance is a hard habit to break. But once more into the breach...
@muyoso
>Tegra 2 is incapable of playing high profile h.264 video @ L4.1 or higher
There's nothing that said a H.264 video has to be encoded at level 4.1. For 720p @30fps, 3.1 is fine. Check the H.264 wiki you're so fond of quoting. L4.1 is a warez standard.
But if you want, I can post a high profile @L4.1 clip, and I'll bet it will play just fine. Will you then shut up and leave?
>original ipad can play 720p high profile h.264 and my epic4g can play 720p high profile h.264
Great, no need for you to buy anything else then.
>Tegra 2 can play some main profile h.264 as long as its encoded exactly how the tegra2 likes it, ie no b frames etc.
BS. The Handbrake script I've posted, and people have used, used straight main profile (which allows B-frames).
>Then when both the xoom and tegra 2 are released we come to realize that it was a bs marketing ploy and "technically" it can display videos that are 720p and 1080p, but only if they are formatted in a ridiculously specific encode.
What's ridiculous is expecting devices to support warez videos, all of which are encoded for the PC platform, and many of which are badly encoded.
The problem with your whining is that it's all predicated on warez, and that's not something you can offer as evidence when it's put-up time and you're asked for proof.
>Its a limitation of the video decode processor.
And you know this because how? The Xoom is the first HC Teg2 device, and it's still in beta status. Every other Teg2 tab available thus far were Froyo, and all of them were also in beta status. Everything points to the driver support.
I asked you this twice before, and I'll ask it a third time: If you think the Teg2 is incapable of playing your warez vids, why are you still here?

e.mote said:
>Its a limitation of the video decode processor.
And you know this because how? The Xoom is the first HC Teg2 device, and it's still in beta status. Every other Teg2 tab available thus far were Froyo, and all of them were also in beta status. Everything points to the driver support.
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driver or not, high profile decoding of h264 is a know limitation of tegra2.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4181/...-a9s-coming-to-smartphonestablets-this-year/3
One of the stones we've thrown at NVIDIA is the lack of high profile H.264 decode support. Tegra 2 can decode main profile H.264 at up to 20Mbps, but throw any high profile 1080p content at the chip and it can't do it. This is a problem because a lot of video content out there today is high profile, high bitrate 1080p H.264.
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tips for playing back 720p mkv

I am having problems playing back 720p move on the device. They stutter with rock player and qqplayer. Any suggestions?

Transcode them to different profile - like mp4 or avi. Or still mkv but main or base profile (I suspect that your movies are in High Profile) that is not supported by Tegra 2. :-(
This problem showed up with release of Xoom and everyone with Tegra 2 tablet has the same problem. As all Honeycomb tablets on the market are essentially the same it is not possible to see if it would be OK on a different CPU/SOC. :-(

>Any suggestions?
Drag-drop.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1102922

galtom said:
Transcode them to different profile - like mp4 or avi. Or still mkv but main or base profile (I suspect that your movies are in High Profile) that is not supported by Tegra 2. :-(
This problem showed up with release of Xoom and everyone with Tegra 2 tablet has the same problem. As all Honeycomb tablets on the market are essentially the same it is not possible to see if it would be OK on a different CPU/SOC. :-(
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That's dissapointing. My epic 4g can play 720p mkv straight withou conversion. Is this a problem that can be fixed in the future or will they always need conversion?

Vplayer, maybe? Try the 7 day Trial version first, though it's just about 5 usd. It seems to have more coded emmbedded too.

fhurricane said:
That's dissapointing. My epic 4g can play 720p mkv straight withou conversion. Is this a problem that can be fixed in the future or will they always need conversion?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
3.1 brought the update to be able to play certain high profile 720p movies in a mp4 container, which was a big step. I'm not sure how much further it'll get since it's a Tegra 2 limitation. This is why Boxee Box dropped the Tegra 2 chipset. We'll have to rely on the devs of market players to take advantage of the 3.1 release for high profile MKV support (not sure if any of the players are capable yet as I haven't been reading the Transformer or other tablet forums. There's at least a couple threads on 720p playback in each tablet forum). Hopefully they can also incorporate the lights out mode instead of having the whole home task bar on the bottom. These limitations are also another reason why a lot of us are very much looking forward to Kal-el.

songmeesay said:
3.1 brought the update to be able to play certain high profile 720p movies in a mp4 container, which was a big step. I'm not sure how much further it'll get since it's a Tegra 2 limitation. This is why Boxee Box dropped the Tegra 2 chipset. We'll have to rely on the devs of market players to take advantage of the 3.1 release for high profile MKV support (not sure if any of the players are capable yet as I haven't been reading the Transformer or other tablet forums. There's at least a couple threads on 720p playback in each tablet forum). Hopefully they can also incorporate the lights out mode instead of having the whole home task bar on the bottom. These limitations are also another reason why a lot of us are very much looking forward to Kal-el.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is there a official source for this limitation?

The limitation that every android Tegra 2 tablet owner is experiencing is official enough for me. When I said I'm not sure how much further it'll get, I was more talking along the lines of 1080p High Profile.

songmeesay said:
The limitation that every android Tegra 2 tablet owner is experiencing is official enough for me. When I said I'm not sure how much further it'll get, I was more talking along the lines of 1080p High Profile.
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Click to collapse
I really don't think we'll ever see any 1080p high profile playback from Tegra 2 based devices.
I've watched many full length action movies in high profile 720p h264 on the XOOM under HC 3.1, and 720p playback is much improved, but still not perfect. The video will seem flawless for a while, and then when you come to a scene with a lot of heavy action, particularly where the camera pans across the scene, the video will sometimes fall totally to pieces. Slowdown, stuttering and skipped frames - a real mess. These occurrences are very brief and infrequent, but seriously annoying when they occur. For full length action films I've gone back to transcoding the video to baseline profile.
The Tegra 2 handles high profile 720p video only well enough for casual viewing in my opinion - TV shows, comedies that sort of thing.

Digital Man said:
I really don't think we'll ever see any 1080p high profile playback from Tegra 2 based devices.
I've watched many full length action movies in high profile 720p h264 on the XOOM under HC 3.1, and 720p playback is much improved, but still not perfect. The video will seem flawless for a while, and then when you come to a scene with a lot of heavy action, particularly where the camera pans across the scene, the video will sometimes fall totally to pieces. Slowdown, stuttering and skipped frames - a real mess. These occurrences are very brief and infrequent, but seriously annoying when they occur. For full length action films I've gone back to transcoding the video to baseline profile.
The Tegra 2 handles high profile 720p video only well enough for casual viewing in my opinion - TV shows, comedies that sort of thing.
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Click to collapse
That input is greatly appreciated. It'll save me some time when I do my re-encodes.

e.mote said:
>Any suggestions?
Drag-drop.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1102922
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Click to collapse
I used this, still yielded an unplayable file.
edit: nvm, plays with stock player, but not rock player

Lagfree playing of .mkv 720p/1080p source

Hi folks,
Is there any posibility of a lagfree playing of those videos ?
It sucks watching Videos with less than 20fps...

3.1 is supposed to improve playback... just no idea if it will improve 720/1080p playback
Sent from my A500 using Tapatalk

I use Handbrake and imported these setting I found on the net.
https://sites.google.com/site/theiveryinc/a500files
That Google site is mine.
Converts all my 720p.mkv files perfectly, the only issue is the files are big, 2-4 GB, but the quality is outstanding. They even play on 'Movies' which darkens the navigation bar.

i was looking for something like this so many times before, but I never found a stable movie app. On my Samsung Galaxy S II however, it's no problem at all. And that's a freaking phone man! But it's no wonder the hole system is so fast. It makes my newly aquired Iconia looking really sluggish and outdated :-( I don't know if I gonna keep this tablet or gonna look my movies on a 4.3" screen...

I asked Acer customer support whether they're ever going to support additional formats and they replied that they won't ever add support for MKV and can't comment on the rest. So official support for MKV is out the window.

Mkv isn't a video format, it's a container. It's just that most mkv's don't contain only baseline h.264, which is the only supported video format currently. The most benefit would come from adding support for main or high profile h.264

themono said:
Mkv isn't a video format, it's a container.
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I know, it still doesn't help at all if the video player application or framework don't support the container format. I personally love MKV, it's handy to slap in two different audio tracks and subtitles in English, Finnish and the hearing-impaired version, plus any metadata about the movie itself. No need to hassle with several files then.
The most benefit would come from adding support for main or high profile h.264
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Indeed. I tried transcoding a 1080p movie to 720p in constant quality mode, both in baseline and high profile modes, and while the quality was the same the high profile one used a lot less storage space. With storage space being rather scarse on mobile devices....
Well, we can only hope. But I don't know if the DSP is beefy enough to decode high profile or if it can be re-programmed to support it. Some DSPs are hardcoded and can't be used for anything other than what they already do when shipped. I don't know anything about Tegra 2 internals so I don't know what to expect.

godashram said:
3.1 is supposed to improve playback... just no idea if it will improve 720/1080p playback
Sent from my A500 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I use 3.1 atm, but there is no mentionable ddifference to 3.0.1

The nVIDIA Tegra 2 250 is fully able to hardware decode:
H.264
VC-1 AP
MPEG2
MPEG-4
DivX 4/5
XviD HT
H.263
Theora
VP8
WMV
Sorenson Spark
Real Video
VP6
and encode:
H.264
MPEG4
H.263
VP8
And this is for 1080p both enc/dec
Why ACER can't (won't) support them is beyond me! Even my Single Core 7" Samsung Galaxy TAB can play all 1080p videos I have thrown at it!
And here is the full spec of the Tegra 2 250 Link!

Is it maybe because of that, that I play these videos from my USB-HDD?

dgcxsk said:
Is it maybe because of that, that I play these videos from my USB-HDD?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can always copy one of them to the TAB and see if there is any change ( I doubt it)

Using a OLD 60gb usb hdd (literally 8 years old)
And it does not seem to matter - even with the low speed of an old external drive I have no issues playing video from it.
.Mkv -- Regardless of where it is stored is not going to work on the Iconia right now - i don't think there is anything anyone can do or change to fix that right now - the system will not?/can not? use the hardware decoder on mkv files - and software decoding, even for a low bit rate video file is always going to suck.
Hopefully 3.1 will improve our video performance - but I find it a very simple matter to just transcode a video file if the only source I have handy is mkv. Plenty of great and free tools that make the process pretty darn easy. I watch a lot of movies/TV on my a500 - and get a great experience as long as I don't throw .mkv files at it.

WereCatf said:
Indeed. I tried transcoding a 1080p movie to 720p in constant quality mode, both in baseline and high profile modes, and while the quality was the same the high profile one used a lot less storage space. With storage space being rather scarse on mobile devices....
Well, we can only hope. But I don't know if the DSP is beefy enough to decode high profile or if it can be re-programmed to support it. Some DSPs are hardcoded and can't be used for anything other than what they already do when shipped. I don't know anything about Tegra 2 internals so I don't know what to expect.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My understanding is tegra2 will support h.264 high profile up to 720p @ 20mbps, but only baseline profile for 1080p.
With regard to the container format vs video format thing, I'm under the impression that container format support can be added by an app - so even if Acer never support mkv in the default player, if they do add hardware high profile h.264, then other apps should be able to play an mkv that contains high profile h.264 with hardware acceleration.

entropy.of.avarice said:
Hopefully 3.1 will improve our video performance - but I find it a very simple matter to just transcode a video file if the only source I have handy is mkv. Plenty of great and free tools that make the process pretty darn easy. I watch a lot of movies/TV on my a500 - and get a great experience as long as I don't throw .mkv files at it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
From playing around with PRIMEE, mkv containers are split appropriately and if the video format is supported hardware decoding works. The problem is that there is no support for AC3 therefore majority of compatible MKVs will play very well but have no sound.
Unfortunately once software encoding is enabled we are back to the same stuttery playback issues.
I personally don't believe it's Acers' job to add playback compatibility, I personally believe it should be built into Honeycomb as a baseline. Honeycomb is a tablet OS and as such should be expected to play popular video and audio. codecs. Saying that, if manufacturers did add additional codec support it would be a solid competitive edge.

Use mobo player.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA Premium App

patterson12123 said:
Use mobo player.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
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Have you read any of the thread, running moboplayer doesn't help, as I mentioned above as soon as you enable software decoding HD MKVs start to get choppy.

hellcat82 said:
From playing around with PRIMEE, mkv containers are split appropriately and if the video format is supported hardware decoding works. The problem is that there is no support for AC3 therefore majority of compatible MKVs will play very well but have no sound.
Unfortunately once software encoding is enabled we are back to the same stuttery playback issues.
I personally don't believe it's Acers' job to add playback compatibility, I personally believe it should be built into Honeycomb as a baseline. Honeycomb is a tablet OS and as such should be expected to play popular video and audio. codecs. Saying that, if manufacturers did add additional codec support it would be a solid competitive edge.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah, that's good to know, so with a baseline h.264 payload an MKV will play fine on stock?
I think it probably IS Acer's job to add codec support, frankly. At the end of the day we're talking about hardware acceleration, and Android provides the software framework for that to work, and it's up to the hardware vendor to make it work with their specific hardware.
Frankly I think Nvidia should be doing it though - it'd do wonders for Tegra 2 sales if they offered up code to support hardware acceleration for their platform on Android.

I guess you didn't really do your research on video playback on Honeycomb tablets, did you?
You can not blame Acer for poor HD playback when, frankly, this is a Google/nVidia issue. Currently no 10" Honeycomb tablet can playback high profile encoded HD vides--smoothly, if at all--without reconverting said movies.
There may or may not be a *real* fix in the future (quad core Tegras are right around the corner, so...), only time will tell.
OrionBG said:
The nVIDIA Tegra 2 250 is fully able to hardware decode:
H.264
VC-1 AP
MPEG2
MPEG-4
DivX 4/5
XviD HT
H.263
Theora
VP8
WMV
Sorenson Spark
Real Video
VP6
and encode:
H.264
MPEG4
H.263
VP8
And this is for 1080p both enc/dec
Why ACER can't (won't) support them is beyond me! Even my Single Core 7" Samsung Galaxy TAB can play all 1080p videos I have thrown at it!
And here is the full spec of the Tegra 2 250 Link!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

edgie168 said:
I guess you didn't really do your research on video playback on Honeycomb tablets, did you?
You can not blame Acer for poor HD playback when, frankly, this is a Google/nVidia issue. Currently no 10" Honeycomb tablet can playback high profile encoded HD vides--smoothly, if at all--without reconverting said movies.
There may or may not be a *real* fix in the future (quad core Tegras are right around the corner, so...), only time will tell.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I bought an ACER device so I'll blame them! Problem here is that the Tegra 2 chip is capable to decode and encode the formats at 1080p without problems! The fact that Google still hasn't taken advantage of this feature doesn't mean that ACER couldn't!! To back my words here is an example:
Samsung! The Galaxy S and Galaxy TAB (7") they have much superior video codec support! I'm playing 1080p movies just perfectly on the Galaxy TAB. Samsung have invested in codec support and optimized it for the platform (both Hardware and Software) The Hummingbird CPU is Single Core! So why can't ACER do it? Maybe because they never did something like this before? Maybe because the have done only the hardware till now and they don't have the programmers that can pull this of? Ones the managers at ACER understand that selling thees devices without enhancing the base that Google provides won't cut it, I think we will have a very good device (not that it isn't good now but...)

OrionBG said:
I bought an ACER device so I'll blame them!
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Guess you'll have to "blame" every single manufacturer out there who have a Honeycomb tablet out too, then.
OrionBG said:
tl;dr
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So does the Samsung 10.1 play 1080p videos smoothly?
From what I've been reading.. no. Frankly, watching a 1080p on a 10" tablet is pointless (which is what I'm assuming you're crying about). If 720p isn't "good enough" on a 10" tablet, well, then, time to buy a 17" laptop.