Database Users

Note 5 vs Nexus 6P, its inevitable

What do you guys think? Software, hardware, android updates, rooting, features and why do you think one is better than the other? Cheers
Sent from my SM-N920I using Tapatalk

Lots of discussion here about that:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/nexus-6p/help/nexus-6p-vs-note-5-t3212443

I like the size of the note better (I couldn't care less about front speakers). The note barely fits in the place I put my phone in my car, I don't think the 6P would.
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Thats from a nexus forum perspective. I wanna hear from the note side of things.

I'm trying to convince myself to get the 6P but can't find a good enough reason to make the switch just yet.
Development community and updates don't mean as much to me anymore as they used to. I no longer flash roms or have the desire to (but I will root). Updates don't matter as much to me either because I always get the latest phones anyways and don't last long enough with phones to worry about updates.
With that said if the 6P was the size of the G4 and definitely not bigger than the Note 5 and had a IR blaster, I've might have been all over it.
Other things I'll be looking for is the 6p screen actually the same quality as the Note 5 screen? How about outdoor visibility, is it as amazing as the Note 5 is?
Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk

Hey buddy, nice to see you here. I'm keeping my Note 5. The Note 5 is the absolute perfect size for a 5.7" screen device. 6P is too big to me and I don't care about front facing speakers.
But my main reason is I hate stock android. Looks like crap and is boring. I know roms and themes can help that but I'm completely over rooting. It just doesn't add the benefits that it used to and I'm tired of doing it.
So with all that being said, I feel that I have the better device. And I like using the S-Pen.

Right now there are no benefits to get that phone. The strongest argument nexus people make is that they have great developing community, however it takes around 3 months for developers to get their units and to add features. By that time sd820 will be out. On top of that, nexus developers won't be able to bring any cooler features that the note 5 already has. I love the scroll to capture feature on the note 5 for example. Stock android is pretty boring as well, and like previous dude said, I am bored of flashing and running custom roms every week, new bugs and stuff like that. As far as it regards the hardware, I believe the note 5 kills the new nexus.

Same here. Man tapatalk quotes have not been working today. I love my Note 5 and i keep trying to get an excuse to try the 6p but i would be giving up too much by getting rid of my lovely note.
Sent from my SM-N920I using Tapatalk

@WizeGuyDezignz Hey man! (WizeGuyDezignz)Glad to see you again! Yeah man stock android is quite boring. Even if i were to get the 6p i wouldnt keep it a month if that. The S pen is really fantastic. Once you start using the features of the note its hard to get something else.
Its for you WizeGuyDezignz, even mentions are not working for me besides the quotes for some odd reason.
Sent from my SM-N920I using Tapatalk

By the way, I forgot the mention the camera interface. Google camera might be good but that camera interface is so outdated. Yes I can always install a third party application, but man the whole camera experience on the Samsung is a total different Galaxy!

Even though I have the option to return the N5 once there 6p is out, I think I might keep the N5. Haven't owned a nexus device before, just ended up flashing an AOSP based ROM on the Samsung device I owned.
Just might wait it out until someone releases one for the N5.

Only thing nexus is better its updates and roms support

If you want stock, front facing speakers, and ROMs get 6p.
if you like a faster cpu/gpu, a pen, Samsung Pay, better camera (in most ways), and TouchWiz enhancements get note 5.
I also like the size of the note 5 more. 6p is too tall for me.
Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

This is why I got my Note 5 over a Nexus 6P
**Hardware**
The Note 5 will undoubtedly have superior hardware.
The 14nm Exynos 7420 is miles ahead of the SD810 both in terms of speed and efficiency. Early benchmarks of the SD820 which is also 14nm are actually comparable to the 7420 which is a huge kudos to Samsung for having this chip out there 12 months before Qualcomm in the chipmaking world which runs on 6/12mth cycles. The SD810 in the 6P (even v 2.1) is going to get hot and then throttled as the system underclocks it to compensate. Its just a matter of when, which depends on Huawei's cooling. The SD808 even shares the same problem to a lesser extent.
TLDR: Exynos 7420 chip is miles ahead of the SD810 and has a degree of future proofing.
-NAND storage UFS 2.0 in the Note 5 vs. eMMC in the 6P. Yes its proprietary, but UFS gives much higher read/write speeds.
-4GB RAM vs 3GB. More is better. The aggressive app closing that people have complained about in Galaxy's can be fixed to maximise the use of this for multi tasking.
-Best in class camera – the 6P sounds like it's going to have the best camera ever in a Nexus, but it's still below the S6 edge according to DxoMark, which is going to be below again the yet to be reviewed Note 5. OIS with manual settings is something else altogether if you know what you're doing. Eg http://i.imgur.com/LLp4WQS.jpg – I took this beauty with a super slow shutter speed whilst resting the phone on someone's head lol.
-Best in class screen – there is no way the 6P is going to get the Note 5's screen which has been rated best in class by displaymate and anandtech. Best case scenario is maybe the Note 4's screen which is better than the Nexus 6, but still 40% less efficient compared to the current gen Note 5 (http://www.displaymate.com/Galaxy_Note5_ShootOut_1.htm)
Build – I'm not a huge fan of the slippery glass back on the Note, but kudos for the screen to body ratio and tapered edges to help with one handed use, while maintaining the same screen size as the note 4. I use cases for all my phones, so in a way build materials don't really matter. The aluminum build on the 6P also looks nice, but the bezels top and bottom bezels are huge (for the front facing speakers?) and is reflected in the relatively poor screen to body ratio (71.4% vs. 75.9%)
True compared to the Note 4, the omission of the mSD card, IR blaster and replaceable battery are disappointing. There are ways around lack of mSD (see below) and sadly it's a trend that a lot of other smartphone makers are adopting as well. The battery although smaller actually provides more juice compared to the Note 4 thanks to processor and screen improvements in efficiency. If you decided to keep the device for 3+ years, the sealed battery is actually replaceable – not super easy to do, but there are guides online. It's not as if the Nexus 6P has any of these features either.
The Note 5 also has wireless fast charging for a sacrifice of 0.3mm of thickness, which was the main reason Nexus 6P engineers have given for its omission.
**Software**
I'm the first to admit that I'm a huge pure android and nexus nut, but Marshmallow may be the first new version of android that I really can't get excited about. The touted features in Marshmallow are not ground breaking and represent disappointing incremental features which already exist in Lollipop with xposed and even 3rd party apps. True it's giving people who don't root their phones access to them for the first time, but for the power user there really isn't much there. See: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/10/android-6-0-marshmallow-thoroughly-reviewed/
TLDR:
Doze – can still be bypassed by developers of apps. Only affects standby time so will make no difference to the biggest drain which is screen, app usage and cellular reception quality. Can do similar already with greenify, amplified and other similar apps.
On tap – very hit and miss. More miss than hit
Permissions – nice and about time I guess, but already doable with 3rd party apps (AppOps) / a firewall
Google launcher changes – had these for months already with nova launcher
In context voice commands – nice if you use voice commands often. I don't know many people who do.
Xposed won't work for a while and there will undoubtedly be new bugs as always until 6.1.
All up, the maturity of android is making the latest and greatest pure android updates less mandatory.
My last experience with Touchwiz back with the Note 2 were pretty negative. However, with a dark material theme from the theme store, nova launcher and xposed, the gaudy bits of touchwiz are no longer as bad as they once were. Samsung have really pulled it back and you can do the rest with a simple debloating app or a modded stock ROM. With the [dark material theme](http://www.xda-developers.com/material-and-material-dark-hit-samsungs-theme-store/), it really isn't too disimilar to stock android.
I'm not a huge stylus person, but some of the TW features like signing PDFs and better hand writing recognition seem genuinely useful. Multi window which was touted in the developer preview of Marshmallow but disabled at launch has been around in TouchWiz for years.
The cons of the Note 5 would be that updates are 4-6 months late and there will be no AOSP custom ROM support given it runs on exynos. This means updates for only 2 years at most. However, the maturity of android as an OS has meant that there are less "essential" features to upgrade to or problems for custom ROMs to fix. Xposed framework is a miracle in allowing a degree customisation that only customs ROMs used to be able to offer.
Samsung is also committed to monthly security updates for android, which is huge as you're no longer reliant on a nexus for this. http://www.androidcentral.com/samsu...urity-updates-every-month-its-android-devices
**Price**
Local RRP for the 6P is $899 which call it what you want (gouging, Australia tax, market factors) is a huge increase in the $499 US that US customers pay.
Unfortunately I think it will be harder to source cheap grey Nexus 6P stock this time around, as all countries except for North America (with the US Bands version) got done over by the [international pricing model](http://www.androidpolice.com/2015/09/30/prices-nexus-5x-nexus-6p-across-globe/). Hong Kong/Asia where a lot of grey stuff comes from is not significantly cheaper than Australia (+27% vs +21%) and that's without a GST. You can probably get one for $840 delivered from Clove/Handtec at launch, but at these similar prices I'd personally pay an extra $50 for excellent 2 year playstore warranty. Historically, Nexus devices have had stock supply issues initially and thus haven't always had cheap grey stock prices for 3+ months after launch.
Either way, it's going to be more expensive than the Note 5 in the foreseeable future.
Samsung has pretty good price retention as well. Brand new Note 4s still retail for $650-$700. Resale value used is ~$500-550 on ebay compared to the Nexus 6 which is $400-450. When I got my [Nexus 6 in December](https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/174328), I remember it actually cost more than the Note 4 (paid $765 via Amazon France, Note 4 was ~$720 on a ebay sale).
TLDR
The Note 5 has undoubtedly miles better hardware and will be cheaper than the Nexus 6P at launch. The benefits of pure android and the latest android updates are no longer as important as they once were given the maturity of android as an OS as evidenced by only minor incremental updates in Marshmallow. Advancements in TouchWiz and xposed framework have made non pure android much more tolerable than it once was.
The only other major con I see with the Note 5 is the absence of a 64GB version in Australia, and if it does come it'll be ridiculously expensive (+$300 over the 32GB currently from grey imports and no stock as well). There are ways around this with cloud storage. I uploaded my 20GB music collection to Google music and can stream it free. I run a networked storage drive at home for media streaming. You can also get USB OTG dongles for your mSD card which work well when you want to carry extra media locally.

@PearsonDKA Why not return your $800 device and get a $500 device if you want to run aosp? Quote isn't working... That is for PearsonDKA.

WizeGuyDezignz said:
@PearsonDKA Why not return your $800 device and get a $500 device if you want to run aosp? Quote isn't working... That is for PearsonDKA.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Honestly, I like having the options to go back and forth between TW and AOSP in case I get bored with one of em or something. I'm actually still on the fence about returning it as well, just gonna see how the N5 handles for the next week.

Here is the thing though, in my honest opinion the Note is just a better device overall and im not just talking about specs.
I understand that people love stock android cause you get the updates quickly and a nexus is a dream for people who love to root and all that. This is xda developers and the chances are that people here (all over xda) will mostly be in favor of the nexus because you can root, rom it, have aosp, flash kernels and all that good stuff and this is the site where it all goes down. Thats all beautiful and they are perfectly right.
But when it comes to having a phone that have features and that truly utilizes that big ass display, really nothing out there competes with the note 5. Its a productivity user's dream. It offers an excellent camera (arguably the best), its absolutely future proof with the 4GB of ram and the powerful SoC, it has arguably the best display on a smartphone, it has the S pen which no one can match on the market at the moment.
People who own the note should use these features, use multiwindow and screen capture and all that, you will see that you wont be able to use another device because you have a mini computer in your pocket that performs wonderfully and do things that other devices cant . As a smartphone, what can beat the note 5 when all is considered? Not a thing.
As a developer's phone, as someone who likes to root and tinker with their device to their liking, nothing can beat a nexus especially the 6p with its amazing specs. Honestly the choice is pretty clear: if you wanna root, rom, flash aosp and CM and all that, you MUST go with a nexus. If you want a phone full of features with the best camera on the market and is a productivity champ you have to go with the note. Forget things like battery life and performance and all that cause both devices are champs. I am using a non carrier note 5 which is expected to have android 6.0 by year's end or early next year, im not sweating it cause the phone works extremely well for me. If i get a nexus 6p now, its only because of the hype but i know what type of user i am and the note 5 works best for me. I skipped the nexus 6 this past year, used many devices and im still alive despite not having used a stock android phone
....just saying
One last thing lol, before the note 5 i had the Iphone 6s and i loved it. But then i wanted a bigger display and i was on the fence between the 6s plus and the note. When i returned my 6s at the apple store to grab the 6s plus, thats when i knew i had to get the note 5 cause i saw how much the 6s plus was just a big phone that does not take advantage of the big display, same with the 6p.
Check out this video guys, trust me its worth it.
https://youtu.be/EYRIX9YP3Lk

Ill keep it simple.
Note 5 has:
Multi Window
Pen
Brighter screen in daylight
Better camera
Wireless charging
Tiny bit better dimensions
More attractive/professional build quality
Samsung pay
Better cpu/gpu
More ram
Nexus has
Dual forward speakers
Type c port
Bigger battery
Rootable without voiding warranty
Instant updates
Note 5 wins.

liqn7 said:
This is why I got my Note 5 over a Nexus 6P
**Hardware**
The Note 5 will undoubtedly have superior hardware.
The 14nm Exynos 7420 is miles ahead of the SD810 both in terms of speed and efficiency. Early benchmarks of the SD820 which is also 14nm are actually comparable to the 7420 which is a huge kudos to Samsung for having this chip out there 12 months before Qualcomm in the chipmaking world which runs on 6/12mth cycles. The SD810 in the 6P (even v 2.1) is going to get hot and then throttled as the system underclocks it to compensate. Its just a matter of when, which depends on Huawei's cooling. The SD808 even shares the same problem to a lesser extent.
TLDR: Exynos 7420 chip is miles ahead of the SD810 and has a degree of future proofing.
-NAND storage UFS 2.0 in the Note 5 vs. eMMC in the 6P. Yes its proprietary, but UFS gives much higher read/write speeds.
-4GB RAM vs 3GB. More is better. The aggressive app closing that people have complained about in Galaxy's can be fixed to maximise the use of this for multi tasking.
-Best in class camera – the 6P sounds like it's going to have the best camera ever in a Nexus, but it's still below the S6 edge according to DxoMark, which is going to be below again the yet to be reviewed Note 5. OIS with manual settings is something else altogether if you know what you're doing. Eg http://i.imgur.com/LLp4WQS.jpg – I took this beauty with a super slow shutter speed whilst resting the phone on someone's head lol.
-Best in class screen – there is no way the 6P is going to get the Note 5's screen which has been rated best in class by displaymate and anandtech. Best case scenario is maybe the Note 4's screen which is better than the Nexus 6, but still 40% less efficient compared to the current gen Note 5 (http://www.displaymate.com/Galaxy_Note5_ShootOut_1.htm)
Build – I'm not a huge fan of the slippery glass back on the Note, but kudos for the screen to body ratio and tapered edges to help with one handed use, while maintaining the same screen size as the note 4. I use cases for all my phones, so in a way build materials don't really matter. The aluminum build on the 6P also looks nice, but the bezels top and bottom bezels are huge (for the front facing speakers?) and is reflected in the relatively poor screen to body ratio (71.4% vs. 75.9%)
True compared to the Note 4, the omission of the mSD card, IR blaster and replaceable battery are disappointing. There are ways around lack of mSD (see below) and sadly it's a trend that a lot of other smartphone makers are adopting as well. The battery although smaller actually provides more juice compared to the Note 4 thanks to processor and screen improvements in efficiency. If you decided to keep the device for 3+ years, the sealed battery is actually replaceable – not super easy to do, but there are guides online. It's not as if the Nexus 6P has any of these features either.
The Note 5 also has wireless fast charging for a sacrifice of 0.3mm of thickness, which was the main reason Nexus 6P engineers have given for its omission.
**Software**
I'm the first to admit that I'm a huge pure android and nexus nut, but Marshmallow may be the first new version of android that I really can't get excited about. The touted features in Marshmallow are not ground breaking and represent disappointing incremental features which already exist in Lollipop with xposed and even 3rd party apps. True it's giving people who don't root their phones access to them for the first time, but for the power user there really isn't much there. See: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/10/android-6-0-marshmallow-thoroughly-reviewed/
TLDR:
Doze – can still be bypassed by developers of apps. Only affects standby time so will make no difference to the biggest drain which is screen, app usage and cellular reception quality. Can do similar already with greenify, amplified and other similar apps.
On tap – very hit and miss. More miss than hit
Permissions – nice and about time I guess, but already doable with 3rd party apps (AppOps) / a firewall
Google launcher changes – had these for months already with nova launcher
In context voice commands – nice if you use voice commands often. I don't know many people who do.
Xposed won't work for a while and there will undoubtedly be new bugs as always until 6.1.
All up, the maturity of android is making the latest and greatest pure android updates less mandatory.
My last experience with Touchwiz back with the Note 2 were pretty negative. However, with a dark material theme from the theme store, nova launcher and xposed, the gaudy bits of touchwiz are no longer as bad as they once were. Samsung have really pulled it back and you can do the rest with a simple debloating app or a modded stock ROM. With the [dark material theme](http://www.xda-developers.com/material-and-material-dark-hit-samsungs-theme-store/), it really isn't too disimilar to stock android.
I'm not a huge stylus person, but some of the TW features like signing PDFs and better hand writing recognition seem genuinely useful. Multi window which was touted in the developer preview of Marshmallow but disabled at launch has been around in TouchWiz for years.
The cons of the Note 5 would be that updates are 4-6 months late and there will be no AOSP custom ROM support given it runs on exynos. This means updates for only 2 years at most. However, the maturity of android as an OS has meant that there are less "essential" features to upgrade to or problems for custom ROMs to fix. Xposed framework is a miracle in allowing a degree customisation that only customs ROMs used to be able to offer.
Samsung is also committed to monthly security updates for android, which is huge as you're no longer reliant on a nexus for this. http://www.androidcentral.com/samsu...urity-updates-every-month-its-android-devices
**Price**
Local RRP for the 6P is $899 which call it what you want (gouging, Australia tax, market factors) is a huge increase in the $499 US that US customers pay.
Unfortunately I think it will be harder to source cheap grey Nexus 6P stock this time around, as all countries except for North America (with the US Bands version) got done over by the [international pricing model](http://www.androidpolice.com/2015/09/30/prices-nexus-5x-nexus-6p-across-globe/). Hong Kong/Asia where a lot of grey stuff comes from is not significantly cheaper than Australia (+27% vs +21%) and that's without a GST. You can probably get one for $840 delivered from Clove/Handtec at launch, but at these similar prices I'd personally pay an extra $50 for excellent 2 year playstore warranty. Historically, Nexus devices have had stock supply issues initially and thus haven't always had cheap grey stock prices for 3+ months after launch.
Either way, it's going to be more expensive than the Note 5 in the foreseeable future.
Samsung has pretty good price retention as well. Brand new Note 4s still retail for $650-$700. Resale value used is ~$500-550 on ebay compared to the Nexus 6 which is $400-450. When I got my [Nexus 6 in December](https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/174328), I remember it actually cost more than the Note 4 (paid $765 via Amazon France, Note 4 was ~$720 on a ebay sale).
TLDR
The Note 5 has undoubtedly miles better hardware and will be cheaper than the Nexus 6P at launch. The benefits of pure android and the latest android updates are no longer as important as they once were given the maturity of android as an OS as evidenced by only minor incremental updates in Marshmallow. Advancements in TouchWiz and xposed framework have made non pure android much more tolerable than it once was.
The only other major con I see with the Note 5 is the absence of a 64GB version in Australia, and if it does come it'll be ridiculously expensive (+$300 over the 32GB currently from grey imports and no stock as well). There are ways around this with cloud storage. I uploaded my 20GB music collection to Google music and can stream it free. I run a networked storage drive at home for media streaming. You can also get USB OTG dongles for your mSD card which work well when you want to carry extra media locally.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL at 'miles better harder'?... You are exaggerating quite a bit. BTW, it has been confired that the 6P uses the latest Samsung panel.
"Miles better hardware' yet multitasking, scrolling and animations are faster and smoother on the 6P. Advanced Kryptonian technology won't make Touchwiz smooth. You care too much about spec sheets dude. Real life performance is much more important.
---------- Post added at 06:03 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:02 AM ----------
seh6183 said:
Ill keep it simple.
Note 5 has:
Multi Window
Pen
Brighter screen in daylight
Better camera
Wireless charging
Tiny bit better dimensions
More attractive/professional build quality
Samsung pay
Better cpu/gpu
More ram
Nexus has
Dual forward speakers
Type c port
Bigger battery
Rootable without voiding warranty
Instant updates
Note 5 wins.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You forgot more efficient and smoother software under Nexus.
---------- Post added at 06:07 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:03 AM ----------
Reviews are in for the 6P and almost all of them are stating it's the best Android smartphone period including the Note 5. It just goes to show you that the sum of it's parts and amazing optimized software trump spec sheets. Pre-ordered 5 days ago. Going to sell the Note 5 as soon as it arrives. Can't wait to leave touchwiz!

Cool have fun with no s pen, no multi window, no one handed mode, no quick reply, a worse camera, bland speakers, and no wireless charging. Oh and a garbage processor with a full gig less ram. Bye.

Samsung S6 Edge+ (does it have a loose button) or the Nexus 6P ? +my concerns

Hey guys!
I am kinda torn between these two devices. At first I waned the Edge+ but then after trying a few units in different shops I noticed that the home button is kinda loose. By loose I mean moving up and down (kind of like the one on the s6) instead of being stiff. Also I am pretty scared that it will be forgotten by Samsung after a while, just like my brand new s3 was forgotten back in the day (it only went from 4.0 to 4.3). Those being said..I think those two are my only concerns about the Edge+
On the other hand..is the Nexus 6P it's also a device I would like. It will always have the latest Android version (at least for about 3 years) and to me it looks okay. Not as sexy as the S6 edge+ but still looks nice. With this device I am concerned about either scratching the back of the graphite version..this exposing the raw aluminium...having the "visor" crack for no reason and I am also kinda concerned about the rigidity of the phone...last night I saw a guy on youtube bending it quite easily.
What would you recommend, guys? Nexus 6P or the Edge+
Please think what would you choose for yourself...and let me know. Also, are my concerns real? Did anyone scratch the back of the 6P or had it's visor crack by itself? Does anyone have an edge+ with a loose button? Hopefully if someone owns this device..they can shoot a really quick video showing the stiffness of the home button.
Also, even better...if someone owns both phones...which one would you pick again?
TLDR version: Nexus 6P or Edge+? Which one would you choose and why?
I am waiting for your answers guys! Hopefully I will get some fast.
Best regards,
Mihai Ilie

S6 Edge+ all over again
I've been using my S6 Edge+ since the launch day and if I have to, I'll pick this one again! I've never used a Nexus 6P, so probably my recommendation wouldn't be appropriate to depend on but the least I can do is tell you how the S6 Edge+ feels like!
1. No, I haven't noticed any loose Home button on my phone. Probably the store units were very roughly used. Also, I'm a hardware button fan (capacitive or tactile), so Edge+ gets a +1 here! It's just easy when the buttons are always there.
2. Display - The S6 Edge+/N5 Display super AMOLED display is amazing! The immersive feeling that you get while operating either of these devices is just incomparable! Deep blacks - another +1. 6P also has AMOLED as far as I've read but never tried it, so can't comment on its performance!
3. UFS2.0 vs eMMC 5.0 - If I'm currect, Nexus 6P is using eMMC storage while the the Samsung flagship is using UFS2.0 which is like 3 times faster than the former! And since it doesn't have any SD Card support, there's nothing to slow down the operations. Even the read/write from a PC on MTP is much faster than my old phones!
4. Exynos 7420 vs Snapdragon 810 - Processors are almost comparable except Exynos is clocked at 2.1 Ghz while the Snapdragon at 2 Ghz. Do not expect any such performance boost on either of them although the Exynos is 14nm fab while the other one is 20nm, so power consumption would a bit lesser in Exynos (just for the processor). If you look at the different benchmark results, you'll see Exynos 7420 above Snapdragon 810 but overall, the difference wouldn't be that significant!
5. 3 GB RAM vs 4 GB RAM - You might never need the additional 1 GB RAM with stock android on Nexus 6P but if you plan on putting another vanilla rom in your phone, an additional 1 GB would be significant in S6 Edge+. I never had any issue with the performance yet on S6 Edge+ but I believe 6P might perform better on a long run with additional upgrades and all (based on past nexus & note experience)
6. Camera : With OIS, S6E+/N5 has the best camera in the market! Sure 6P do have some nice slowmos, so it's upto your preference. I don't prefer to compare cell phone cameras, none of them are comparable to actual handheld cameras.
7. Gear VR - No, I'm not a Samsung fan but I do appreciate their efforts to excel in electronics industry. One of primary reasons behind getting a Samsung was to get my hands on Gear VR. And it was worth it! At just $99, it'll be the best toy you've ever owned! Combined with a Moga Controller, you'll be off to a parallel universe! Try it out in the stores.
8. Battery Life - With S6E+, I charge the phone at night and it survives the entire day on LTE always on and Wifi at home! I wouldn't say it has the best battery life, but I do not have any complains. Not so sure about 6P but considering it has 3450 mAh over 3000 in S6E+, I can only assume a better battery life with 6P.
Both the smartphones are comparable neck to neck although the S6E+ stands out due to it's amazing design. Both of them should be able to run all the latest games with highest details. The fingerprint sensor works great on S6E+, not sure about the 6P yet. And since you mentioned the software updates part, Nexus has always guaranteed upto 2 major upgrades and now they have announced 3 Years of monthly security updates (not featured updates) from the launch day of the device. As far as I've known, even Samsung has provided atleast 2 major upgrades (rolled out much slower than nexus though) on its flagships and recently they've shaken hands with Google on this monthly security update thing (not sure for 3 yrs or not though).
I know I probably haven't helped you choosing one but I hope the mentioned facts will help you choose one! Or the other comments will.:good:

No loose button here.
Sent from my SM-G928F using XDA Free mobile app

I'm in the same boat. Want to trade my oneplus two for a s6 edge plus or nexus 6p.
Love the design, camera and screen from the edge but love the updates, fingerprint sensor and front facing sound from 6P.

no loose button on my Galaxy s6 edge+ Plus.
touchwiz is mostly lag free. sometimes my instagram crash sometimes cloeses for no reason but don't no if its the phone or the app it self.
s6 edge plus should get 2 years update.
Nexus 6P bends easily if pressed in the right spot. but otherwise should be fine.
get Nexus 6P if you want latest updates quickly as possible and can't wait. and get 3 years update.

Move to N5X

I thought I'd post a thread for my fellow S6 users planning to move to the N5X.
I had the S6 with me since the launch day itself. I was hoping that due the popularity of the S lineup there could be CM support just like S3 had.
After almost 9 months of waiting I finally gave up.
Yes there is CM for S6 but it is no where near stability. Without a maintainer there wont be any. Samsung will never release sources for exynos.
These facts however cold they maybe are straight forward facts. The CM source we have has a lot of work to be done, and I am not talking about 2 or 3 lines of code. Hals need to be written from scratch and tested. I believe in open source mindset. If I have paid almost 800 usd for a piece of hardware I should have the right to put whatever software I want.
So finally I moved to the 5X.
1) The build does not feel cheap, its lighter than the s6 yet sturdy and does not feel fragile.
2) The power button is not as tactile as the one on the S6.
3) Display is really good. 1080 is enough and I have to try really hard to see the difference between fhd and qhd. This is my first IPS LCD phone all others have been amoleds and I am pleased to say that the display on N5X is really subtle on the eyes.
4) Camera is very good, almost close to the s6. The cam app is not that great but I am using manual camera so it dont matter.
5) BATTERY LIFE! N5X only loses 1% charge over night. Doze is just amazing. I am almost getting 6 to 6.5 hrs of SOT over a 1.5 to 2 days of usage. I'm pretty sure I can push it to 8hrs of SOT.
6) Fingerprint scanner is faster than the S6. and the positioning is more natural.
7) The front speaker is really good. I can hold the phone without worrying about blocking the speaker.
8) Fast charging is pretty much the same as S6.
9) Earpiece quality and clarity are 2x better than the one on S6 imo.
10) The phone does not throttle or heat up even on heavy use. SD 808 is just working fine.
So if you are planning to move on to 5X or 6P, I would say go for it.
P.S. I am not here to badmouth our beloved S6. I love the phone, but the software just doesn't live up. Stock android is 100% better than touchwiz when user experience is concerned.

Are your comparisons based on the s6 on lollipop or marshmallow? Cos a lot of the things have improved a hell of a lot on marshmallow for s6 and that's just beta and not final version. The 6p yes, 5x nahh

No front physical home button, no care.
I had a N4 and N7 (2012 & 2013). Meh.

Wider, taller and thicker. The 2 extra mm in width is especially noticeable in the hand--at least it was when I held it. The S6 is pretty much the limit for me in terms of size. But the worst thing about the NX5 is onboard memory. 32g max. That is the ultimate deal breaker. I keep a lot of music on my phone and like to store locally whatever movies I buy from the Play store or videos I watch from Amazon Prime so I don't need a connection to watch. Plus, it drains far less battery than streaming. A 10-episode series on Prime is like 11g by itself. Come on, get with the times and at least provide the option of 64g model.

Siddheshpatil said:
I thought I'd post a thread for my fellow S6 users planning to move to the N5X.
I had the S6 with me since the launch day itself. I was hoping that due the popularity of the S lineup there could be CM support just like S3 had.
After almost 9 months of waiting I finally gave up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Moral of the story: Don't buy a Samsung product (especially with an Exynos SoC) unless you're willing to live with TW. Things have changed since 2012.

CafeKampuchia said:
Moral of the story: Don't buy a Samsung product (especially with an Exynos SoC) unless you're willing to live with TW. Things have changed since 2012.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wish we had codeworkx working on S6. Samsung is being a real pain in the a s s. I do understand that their code has some really vital info that could help it's competitors but they can at least provide the basic documentation for the exynos soc.

Siddheshpatil said:
I wish we had codeworkx working on S6. Samsung is being a real pain in the a s s. I do understand that their code has some really vital info that could help it's competitors but they can at least provide the basic documentation for the exynos soc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That makes no business sense. Probably fewer than a few percent of users want to flash custom ROMs, and encouraging them to do so by releasing full sources only increases costly warranty claims. They've totally snubbed the development community, so it's time for us to either be content with TW or move on, IMO.

Siddheshpatil said:
I wish we had codeworkx working on S6. Samsung is being a real pain in the a s s. I do understand that their code has some really vital info that could help it's competitors but they can at least provide the basic documentation for the exynos soc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You guys over exagerate quite alot..stock rom especially with marshmallow is fast and smooth...im getting between 5.30-6 hours sot...
Nexus 5x is a inferior product compared to the s6...even the nexus 6p is not on par with the s6...the only one which is going to be worth getting in my opinion is the upcoming s7..and im going to get the s7 exynos variant not the snapdragon one.. simply because it will be faster.

loris100 said:
You guys over exagerate quite alot..stock rom especially with marshmallow is fast and smooth...im getting between 5.30-6 hours sot...
Nexus 5x is a inferior product compared to the s6...even the nexus 6p is not on par with the s6...the only one which is going to be worth getting in my opinion is the upcoming s7..and im going to get the s7 exynos variant not the snapdragon one.. simply because it will be faster.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I never said that S6 was a slow phone. It's about what's opensource and what's not. Touchwiz on the S6 is the best I've seen on a samsung device. But the way samsung heavily modifies aosp and does not tell us is very unfair. Look at sony, they got their custom timescape UI, but still they support AOSP and provide the right sources.

Siddheshpatil said:
I never said that S6 was a slow phone. It's about what's opensource and what's not. Touchwiz on the S6 is the best I've seen on a samsung device. But the way samsung heavily modifies aosp and does not tell us is very unfair. Look at sony, they got their custom timescape UI, but still they support AOSP and provide the right sources.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
when cm13 stable lands for s6 you will regret the purchase of 5x...

thegtfusion said:
when cm13 stable lands for s6 you will regret the purchase of 5x...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
not happening in 3-4months,i think we can expect first stable build(with few bugs) in late 2016
the devs are doing it for fun,they can stop developing whenever they feel like and like OP said no "maintainer" so we cant expect a totally stable build
i wish samsung makes marshmallow tw as good as stock

ben_cool said:
not happening in 3-4months,i think we can expect first stable build(with few bugs) in late 2016
the devs are doing it for fun,they can stop developing whenever they feel like and like OP said no "maintainer" so we cant expect a totally stable build
i wish samsung makes marshmallow tw as good as stock
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
by 3-4 months google will announce Android N release. Then there will be another reason to wait for samsung to release some source.

If you want development, the S6 shouldn't even be in contention. We buy the S6 for premium build and the built in tech like fprint scanner, IR Blaster, Heart Rate Monitor and crazy gorgeous screen.
Even with that ****ty CM, half the tech built in will not work properly so why buy the S6 hoping for CM?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

LNJ said:
If you want development, the S6 shouldn't even be in contention. We buy the S6 for premium build and the built in tech like fprint scanner, IR Blaster, Heart Rate Monitor and crazy gorgeous screen.
Even with that ****ty CM, half the tech built in will not work properly so why buy the S6 hoping for CM?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The funny thing is... You sent this from an Iphone.

To the OP, any issues with the reported lag on the 5x? I'm looking elsewhere from my s6 because even on that "premium" phone, I get lag opening hangouts and even at times typing. I never had any problems on my previous original nexus 5.

I'm really stuck in this same move myself. I bought a s6 when my nexus 5died because it was the best hardware around. Little did I know that the monster of a processor would be gimped by poor ram management. I bought a 5x during the holidays and I really enjoy the stock Android and solid battery life.
Then they came out with the marshmallow beta and fixed most of my reservations - ran management, keyboard killing, fingerprint sensor speed, and standby drain. The mm build is competitive in enjoyment, at least until the next nexus comes out.

Siddheshpatil said:
The funny thing is... You sent this from an Iphone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would be running a Nexus 6P if I didn't think that the SD810 was a step backward from the Exynos!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hardcore nexus and flashaholic user here since g1days. S6 is my first samsung. I had nexus 4, nexus 5, OPO, Nexus 6 most recently. 6 was nice but too bulky.
I'm really enjoying the stock samsung experience. Getting 4.5 hours SOT. Fast charge is super nice and I love spay and ir blaster remote. I run action launcher. I'm officially a reformed flashaholic.
Camera on this phone is excellent.
Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk

I'm flasholic since i9000/9003. Last hardware running on cm was klte. Really like the layer theme and so on but after using new tw on s6, my bad behaviour gone slowly. And after trying beta 6.0 tw I send the resignation letter to bug hunter division. I guess I already too old for bug fighting.
Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

I have a s6 and just bought a nexus 6 , thats a great phone and cheaper than the 5x , keeping both , as they both have thier plus and minus , use my s6 with the gear vr and that is cool to watch movies , so plan to keep the s6 after the s7 is out for the vr side.
Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

Moto X Style/Pure vs Galaxy Note 5

Anybody had the chance to test both or probably own both? What would you recommend? I have the option to get Note 5 for just 50 EUR more than Moto so I can't decide. This is what I was able to gather
Camera: better on Note 5
Battery: better on Note 5
Display/colors: better on Note 5
Updates: better on Moto
System: better on Moto (pure android)
Thanks for any inputs

It depends on the time you will keep the phone with you... Apps/android get heavier and heavier with time, and add that to an already heavy interface that is touchwiz, for me that takes a good year of life a phone may have. I'm personally not a fan of touchwiz, or of all that bloatware samsung throws at a phone to start with, but i gotta say i was kinda seduced by note 5. The phone is gorgeous, AMOLED is awesome (even though it burns with time, another thing that adds to the decrease of the phone's life), the battery seems fine, there was some power tests with it and it held up quite well... but i still went for the x style 'cause of the clean, top notch system. Also battery life isn't that much of a big deal, 'cause turbopower charges really fast.

The Note 5 is has an Exynos SoC, so you're pretty much guaranteed dismal development on it. I just glanced at the Note 5 xda page and it looks like it is just some stock mods. That would be fine on the Moto X. I'm actually just running rooted stock on it now, but on the Note...Touchwiz [involuntary shudder].
I've heard Touchwiz is getting better, but I'm not so sure Touchwiz is getting better. I just think Samsung is cranking out some awesome silicon that is actually capable of dragging that boat anchor.
You better believe Samsung has already moved on to the next big thing. Supporting last years' flagships is not high on their priority list. My other phone is a Galaxy S3, a 2012 flagship. It hadn't seen an update since it got kitkat in late 2013. In mid 2015 they actually pushed another OTA, but it was just another kitkat version that was supposed to patch stagefright vulnerabilities. Hilariously enough it only patched about 2 of the 6 or so CVE's.
On the other hand that phone is actually running rock solid CM 12.1 based custom roms. It also has some pretty promising early CM 13 based builds, but it has a Qualcomm snapdragon SoC (its the i747 not the i9300). It is kind of a sad state of affairs, but we really rely on the dev community to keep our older devices patched and up to date more than at least some manufacturers.
TLDR - Samsung makes great hardware, but they can keep their Exynos, their Knox, and their Touchwiz. I know of no reason why the Superbrick treason should ever be forgot. Give me Qualcomm, a close to AOSP experience, and a microSD slot please.

is the S5 still a good choice today?

Hello folks.
I'm looking to replace my current cell phone. It needs to be an unlocked CDMA (Sprint) phone. Things that are important to me:
high quality screen
processing power
decent storage
Things that aren't that important to me:
camera
I have a price limit of $150. Given the above, I am looking at:
Moto E4
Galaxy S5 (refurbished)
Galaxy J3 Emerge
Moto G4 Play
All of them have 5" screens, but the S5 has the highest resolution (the rest are 1280x720). The S5 also has the highest clock rate.
My concern is that the S5 is using technology from 4 years ago, while the rest are more recent. Should that be a concern, or is the S5 the best option here?
Thanks!

mrfeh said:
Hello folks. I'm looking to replace my current cell phone. It needs to be an unlocked CDMA (Sprint) phone...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your best bet is to post this question within one of the following threads that is specific to your question.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1846277
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1620179
Good Luck!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I DO NOT provide support via PM unless asked/requested by myself. PLEASE keep it in the threads where everyone can share.

yes
mrfeh said:
Hello folks.
I'm looking to replace my current cell phone. It needs to be an unlocked CDMA (Sprint) phone. Things that are important to me:
high quality screen
processing power
decent storage
Things that aren't that important to me:
camera
I have a price limit of $150. Given the above, I am looking at:
Moto E4
Galaxy S5 (refurbished)
Galaxy J3 Emerge
Moto G4 Play
All of them have 5" screens, but the S5 has the highest resolution (the rest are 1280x720). The S5 also has the highest clock rate.
My concern is that the S5 is using technology from 4 years ago, while the rest are more recent. Should that be a concern, or is the S5 the best option here?
Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
in my opinion, for this expense and one of the best!

I use a Samsung Galaxy S5 Neo and everything works fine.
2 weeks ago there was an update for the S5 over OTA. It is still alive and good.
In USA the normal S5 is still a smartphone that is one of the bestsellers.
I have no need to get another phone.
And the original S5 is better than my neo.
Gesendet von meinem SM-G903F mit Tapatalk

I would go with the S5...
Amoled screen, wireless charging, fingerscan...16mp cam..
Put LOS or RR and youll get the best deal...
Or try a xiaomi mia1

Hello, had a galaxy s5 for around 3 years. My unit had a bit of a network issue, which sullied my experience, so be careful when buying a refurb!
Also, if processing power is important to you, you should note that it has constant slowdowns/stutters and, though not as often, crashes. It also heats up pretty quick and has mediocre battery life, draining pretty fast with any decent usage. The chipset really does not hold up compared to mid range chipsets now imo. Near the time I upgraded, it became nearly unusable for a bit whenever i turned the wifi on, though a factory reset and a sparser app library has alleviated the worst aspects of using the phone. It might be powerful specwise, but in irl use I find newer midrange chips outperform it in day to day use.
I recently upgraded to a redmi note 5 (china) and it was an upgrade in every way. From build to smoothness to battery life (and both cameras but you don't care about that). It also has the 6' display while retaining the same width as my s5, thanks to the 18:9 display. The aspect ratio is great in all apps that aren't games and in general UI use. It also has oreo out of the box and will get updates in the future, unlike the s5.
The redmi 5 plus(china) could also be a replacement that's cheaper, but I can't vouch for the screen on that one. The redmi note 5 has a bright lcd that looks really good. It's not amoled, but the transition hasn't bothered me at all, it's quite excellent! I've gotten compliments on the screen from many friends who have seen it in person as well.
So, yeah, look into the phone and see if your budget can be adjusted. Shoot for the 3/32 GB which is a steal imo. Oh, and it has a micro sd card slot, just like the s5, so storage won't be an issue. Another plus with these phones is that they actually have a fingerprint scanner that's not trash - another thing from the past that does not hold up.
I looked up the prices for these phones and they seem to be out of the 150$ budget, so, if the budget is rigid you might want to look into the redmi note 4, which can be found for 160$ and has all the same internals as the redmi 5 plus. I cannot vouch for how good the screen is, but it's 1080P IPS LCD. I would personally consider it a better phone to buy than the Galaxy S5 as well (working fingerprint scanner, larger screen, equivalent if not better chipset usability wise).
Anyway, I'm not really as knowledgable as most people in xda but I am a s5 owner, so I figured I'd chip in and try to help.

While S5 is still a nice phone, it is not worth buying one at this time. The best option would be to get current/last year mid end phone. Look at the local market websites, maybe there are good deals. Xiaomi redmi 5 plus is nice phone for low price, also redmi note 4 is nice phone too, you will get better peformance than S5, or at very least the same, more ram, much better battery life due to bigger battery and better chipset, you will get android updates.

S5 is still a great phone.. Do not buy refurbished.. you can find great deals on Ebay.. My cost $110 no dings, or dents or scratches.. Phone actually had very little call time on it.. Moto's IMOP are junk.

Hi ,
I personally think you should go for a newer phone like Honor 8. The main problem i would have with an S5 is the fact that it only has 16GB internal memory. Apart from that it is still a great phone.
With those 16 GB you will always struggle if you want to install many applications and keep Whatsapp data on your phone.

loomax12 said:
Hi ,
I personally think you should go for a newer phone like Honor 8. The main problem i would have with an S5 is the fact that it only has 16GB internal memory. Apart from that it is still a great phone.
With those 16 GB you will always struggle if you want to install many applications and keep Whatsapp data on your phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It does support SD Cards up to 128 GB though. I'm a kinda heavy user and never had problems with storage, always around 3-4 GB free in internal. Though I did put my games on my card obviosly (there was some app that does this, I forgot name).

i picked mine up monday for 45$. cracked rear camera glass. still takes photos fine.
anyway, i love the thing. i went from an s7 to an iphone 7 then to and old moto then to this. i love the effing thing. i get 2 days in low power mode with the original battery. im hunting for a parts phone now.
the s5 has issues from what ive heard but so far, im running fine.

After 2 weeks using the S5 of my wife I have to reverse my opinion. I installed latest lineageos 14.1 on it and it works like a charm. With lineageos there is still a lot of internal memory left for apps. Bluetooth which is often a problem for custom roms seems to work pretty well.

I've actually recently bought an S5, and although it is not the best option, the support for it has been huge over time and its still going on with amazing roms like AEX or CrDroid.
The only part I dislike is the storage, because yea 16GB are little to me. And the fact that it is refurbished is good contrary to what people assume, because, then that means its already fixed, you wont have to go through that pain as you would with a new one waiting to fail, that's how it is, you have more chances of a new one having issues than a refurbished one because that one already had them and its already fixed. On the other hand, "refurbished" doesnt always mean "it broke and we fixed it", usually its because people return it to the store, the package is open, they cant sell them as new, even if theres nothing wrong with it, it automatically falls to the "refurbished" category and not many people think of that.
Now, the Moto G4 is actually a better option, it has a good performance, but you should opt for the Plus version with 32GB internal
So, I'd recommend the G4 Plus, if you cant buy that, then the S5 is the way to go

S5 is still going strong.
I would not change it, but I need a dual SIM phone now.
So if you can get one, go for it.
However, I am not aware of CDMA capabilities or tested it, sorry. I have European model...

My uncle gave me his old S5 back in January to replace my dying S4 LTE-A, and with LineageOS 15.1, it feels like a brand new phone

im now rooted and running the latest lineage 14.1 and its awesome.
12 hours of battery, 4 hours of SOT and no issues. these nougat kernels are pretty nice. lol
people talking about storage, flash Lineage, have a clean sd card in and use the SD card as adptive storage. it shows it as all internal storage and works like a charm.

Bodisson said:
S5 is still going strong.
I would not change it, but I need a dual SIM phone now.
So if you can get one, go for it.
However, I am not aware of CDMA capabilities or tested it, sorry. I have European model...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
would you recommend the S5 as a backup to the Note 4?

I still have an S5 as a backup phone. Main phone Xiaomei Redmi Note 4x which I bought due to its superior battery life. The S5 imo is still good as backup phone and has an excellent camera (if you stick to TouchWiz based roms).

mrfeh said:
Hello folks.
I'm looking to replace my current cell phone. It needs to be an unlocked CDMA (Sprint) phone. Things that are important to me:
high quality screen
processing power
decent storage
Things that aren't that important to me:
camera
I have a price limit of $150. Given the above, I am looking at:
Moto E4
Galaxy S5 (refurbished)
Galaxy J3 Emerge
Moto G4 Play
All of them have 5" screens, but the S5 has the highest resolution (the rest are 1280x720). The S5 also has the highest clock rate.
My concern is that the S5 is using technology from 4 years ago, while the rest are more recent. Should that be a concern, or is the S5 the best option here?
Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hello!
I can definately assure you that:
A. Off the phones you have listed AND
B. Your stated price range
The S5 is your choice!!
It is amazing!! You will not be dissapointed! Unlimited battery life (multiple batteries), screen resolution, clock speed etc etc.
I am currently typing from one! Lol, I have the OnePlus 3 and my good ol' trusty S5! Some tips:
You stated about being older firmware (S5 is marshmallow) whilst others are nougat..... The S5 is one of the most developed phones ever! even still!!! In literally 5 minutes and little knowledge you can flash a custom recovery and then a custom ROM, no root needed. I have used the S5 since the early days and have used pretty much EVERY rom, honestly!
I can suggest resurrection remix as THE most customisable, they have features beyond any other! They have 100% stable nougat build and Oreo also, I use them both. In fact we have multiboot so can run 2 ROMs at once just choose at boot!
We have lots of kernels if you choose to root like myself, this way you can have 2.1 amp quick charge, boot windows or Linux on PC from phone, double battery time, gaming performance and over clocking to 2.84 GHz!!!! The phone is a beast!! It is reliable as hell too! I have had mine rooted for 4 years, overclocked and its given me no worries....And waterproof with a removable battery!!!!!!
Hope this helps, any questions at all please ask, happy to help

ErbDroid said:
Hello!
I can definately assure you that:
A. Off the phones you have listed AND
B. Your stated price range
The S5 is your choice!!
It is amazing!! You will not be dissapointed! Unlimited battery life (multiple batteries), screen resolution, clock speed etc etc.
I am currently typing from one! Lol, I have the OnePlus 3 and my good ol' trusty S5! Some tips:
You stated about being older firmware (S5 is marshmallow) whilst others are nougat..... The S5 is one of the most developed phones ever! even still!!! In literally 5 minutes and little knowledge you can flash a custom recovery and then a custom ROM, no root needed. I have used the S5 since the early days and have used pretty much EVERY rom, honestly!
I can suggest resurrection remix as THE most customisable, they have features beyond any other! They have 100% stable nougat build and Oreo also, I use them both. In fact we have multiboot so can run 2 ROMs at once just choose at boot!
We have lots of kernels if you choose to root like myself, this way you can have 2.1 amp quick charge, boot windows or Linux on PC from phone, double battery time, gaming performance and over clocking to 2.84 GHz!!!! The phone is a beast!! It is reliable as hell too! I have had mine rooted for 4 years, overclocked and its given me no worries....And waterproof with a removable battery!!!!!!
Hope this helps, any questions at all please ask, happy to help
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hello.
Please make recomendation for Nougat and Oreo firmwares