Database Users

Hero rushed out the door?

So after spending two days with the new official ROM I am dumbstruck that HTC let the Hero out the door as it was initially.
If you guys are like me you read online gadget blog reviews of new phones and you base your purchasing decisions to a lesser or greater extent on the reviews posted on these sites. The Hero received generally favorable reviews across the board BUT they were ALL tarred with the issue of the lagginess and unresponsiveness of the UI. Typical comments were "Sense UI is great but the hardware is not up to the task" etc. Hero was always compared to the iPhone and initially it was a more frustrating experience navigating the UI.
Clearly HTC have the ability to release software without these issues (new ROM proves that!) so why did they? I feel like they *really* hurt the sales and market potential of Hero and Sense UI by releasing an 'unfinished' product.
Can you imagine what Engadget's review (for instance) might have been had they reviewed a Hero with the new ROM?
I bought a Hero despite those reviews because I could see the potential in the handset but I know of others that steered clear because of the massive 'BUT...' at the end of most online reviews.
Its an opportunity missed I fear as the Hero is no longer a 'new' device.
I'm very glad that HTC have made my handset waaaaay nicer to use but seriously HTC... big, BIG ball drop!

Well... the Android phones are not really for the average Joes out there... they are for us techies and gadget lovers that love the freedom of doing cool and neat things with a phone.
We don't want to be tied up in an bondage game conducted/directed by a fruity company... and that is also why we choose a company we know.
Good enough?
You really thought we would feed a troll?

I honestly thought my post was a valid topic in a discussion forum about the HTC Hero.
@Thiesen
Wha?!? I really don't understand what your reply has got to do with my post. I think you've misunderstood the subject of my comments (perhaps if I had written in binary it might have been clearer?)
A broader acceptance of any platform is enabling and will benefit all users from 'techies' to 'average Joes'. Its not a matter of IF Android will become more mainstream but WHEN. I'm sorry if this makes you feel less special.
Troll indeed...

We're early adopters. We like to find bugs. We like to find glitches. And we take great pride in reporting them back to the devs and makers.
The average Joes just want things to work. They are not early adopters. They should get an iPhone then.

Thiesen said:
We're early adopters. We like to find bugs. We like to find glitches. And we take great pride in reporting them back to the devs and makers.
The average Joes just want things to work. They are not early adopters. They should get an iPhone then.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm sorry mate but i think thats total rubbish, you wouldn't buy a car knowing it didn't work and happily waste your own time feeding back problems to the manufacture to bring it up to speed. You wouldn't go out and buy a brand new state of the art car and happily put a new engine in it would you knowing the one you had paid for was crap?
AND might I ad, the research and R+D that is put in to these items is all reflected in the price of them. If HTC were giving these phones away for beta testing or what not then fine, but for a £400 handset, i totally agree with the comments made by ShiroEd.
I have had no end of nokia handsets where i have thought nokia have been guilty of the same issue, releasing what could be classed as unfinished products.

Personally, I always though the tech sites overplayed the whole lag issue on the original ROM. Yes it was there, but in my experience the net effect was quite limited and in my case it didn't really limit my ability to use the device. I'm not saying that the issue didn't (or doesn't! ) exist, just that in my opinion it was acceptable for a device of this nature (please no flames from those who disagree).
This may be because I didn't load my home screens with tons of apps, and one of the first things I did do with my Hero was to remove the People and Weather widgets, and set up Peep appropriately.
The average Joes just want things to work. They are not early adopters. They should get an iPhone then.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That would presume that the iPhone isn't possessed of the same issues that the Hero is/was. Google "iphone lag" and you'll see loads of posts complaining about lag on the iPhone, even for the latest OS and the 3GS.
In addition, you will probably find that the *vast* majority of people who've purchased the Hero have never even heard of XDA-Developers, and probably will never install another ROM. We are in the minority, not the "average joe" when it comes to Hero ownership!
Whilst I disagree with the OP, I don't think he was trolling.
Regards,
Dave

Thiesen said:
We're early adopters. We like to find bugs. We like to find glitches. And we take great pride in reporting them back to the devs and makers.
The average Joes just want things to work. They are not early adopters. They should get an iPhone then.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed with crash. Thats just rubbish.
Entirely valid topic, and entirely valid point. Nothing remotely troll like about it.
Regardless of the people on this site, the Hero is definitely aimed at the average consumer, as a direct competitor in the iPhone market. Hence the multimedia, Facebook, etc.
Rushed to market I agree, but no idea why... Could just be lack of QA.
Many of the bugs reported here and elsewhere have been met with surprise by HTC, as if they really didnt know they existed. Do they not have a QA department that actually uses the phones in real life? Takes them home, plays with them, uses them all day and night to report the bugs?
Still, the update is great, the phone is flying now. If they could just sort out the crappy contact photo issue, the album caching, and the horrendous lack of bluetooth file transfer, I'd be a happy chap..

I think they shipped out the preview models and early review versions to people in the hope that they'd ignore any slowdown. Most of the review sites seem to have mentioned this in some form, saying that it can be a bit laggy but the final release could be good and the software shows potential - obviously it was never fixed for the first release.
To be fair, we're all early testers for the new HTC interface. If the Hero sells well and works well for everyone then we'll obviously be getting the same thing in future phones.
I don't think HTC is expecting any particular phone to be the next killer phone, they're just working on improvements with each new model.

While it does not make it ok... it seems to be the norm these days to get the product out and iron out bugs in a later release. As long as the quality is respectable, which I feel it was in this case, I can live with it. Particularly since the alternative would be to make do with buying an older model or waiting longer for the handset.
Zuber

Just give us an example of one single gadget that was not rushed out of the door!
The iPhone? Hellooo, the original iPhone didn't even have 3G. Have you ever tried GPRS speed (Go to wireless settings and pick "2G only"), not even funny. Talk about being rushed out of the door!

and apple offered a free upgrade to the 3g version when it was released! So yes may have been rushed out the door but no financial gain in the long run.

Was this a free upgrade that did not involve commuting to a contract ?
If not, then its not free...
Zuber

the handsets weren't free in the first place... you want to split hairs then fine.

The uninformed might think Apple were so caring and generous that they were willing to swap out the phones for "no financial gain"...
You can say many things about Apple, but generous isn't one of them
Zuber

Zuber said:
The uninformed might think Apple were so caring and generous that they were willing to swap out the phones for "no financial gain"...
You can say many things about Apple, but generous isn't one of them
Zuber
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed However i thought it wasn't a bad deal as i have always thought the handsets were a rip off...coming to think of it the tariffs are aswell. I work for network rail and get 30% off all o2 shop tariffs and i still opted for the hero on orange which was a miles better deal!
(sorry for the partial hi-jack! )

crash_194 said:
and apple offered a free upgrade to the 3g version when it was released!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Free upgrade! Just sign on for another 12 months of the 60+EUR/month (AT&T US) plan

Ok, I was one of the early adoptors of Hero. I got it right after its launch and I didnt really had too many complains about the device.
I never ever bought any HTC phone hoping it to be perfect. I always bought HTC knowing it will not be a perfect device out of box but community efforts will make it much much better device over time.
This applies to WinMo devices, and android. Why do we have xda here???

If you ask me, it's actually a great device. I've had far worse :/
I think people kinda underestimate how difficult it is to make good software. And how difficult it is to properly test stuff like this as well.
Next to that, it's always a comprimise. They want the software to be good, but also get the device out as fast as possible. The faster a (good) device is out there, the better that is for HTC in this case. It's a very competitive market, there just isn't enough time to keep working on the software until it's perfect.
The software should be 'good enough' and not perfect. I'm 100% sure they have a bugtracker or something else to keep track of major and minor bugs. At some point someone has to make a decision what will and won't be fixed before launch. And what shall be fixed right after launch.
For a new OS with a new UI like on the Hero I think they did very very well on the first release.
Now I fully agree with the OP, the lag/speed issue with the first ROM was not in HTC's favour. It was something that came up in every review, and people still believe that's a big Hero issue even while it's fixed. On the other hand, there might have been more important things that were fixed during development.
Usually speed improvements and tweaking stuff like that is something you do last. Other bugs and stuff has to be fixed first.

I don't think HTC rushed the phone out the door. The software was good enough so the phone functioned as a phone. It's a smartphone designed with the capability to upgrade the software. As long as the hardware is good quality, then you can work with the software and polish it as you go along.
I never really noticed the lag - it's only put to shame when you compare it with the new software. Look at the problems people are having with the iPhone 3.1 software release and you should be thankful that HTC have actually first delivered useable phone software and then improved it only a month after release. And HTC got some nice innovations to boot with the first release. They were perhaps a bit ambitious with the first release - where the phone did a lot of things when it first came out of sleep or switched screens, including the clock "flipping" animation.

RaptorRVL said:
If you ask me, it's actually a great device. I've had far worse :/
I think people kinda underestimate how difficult it is to make good software. And how difficult it is to properly test stuff like this as well.
Next to that, it's always a comprimise. They want the software to be good, but also get the device out as fast as possible. The faster a (good) device is out there, the better that is for HTC in this case. It's a very competitive market, there just isn't enough time to keep working on the software until it's perfect.
The software should be 'good enough' and not perfect. I'm 100% sure they have a bugtracker or something else to keep track of major and minor bugs. At some point someone has to make a decision what will and won't be fixed before launch. And what shall be fixed right after launch.
For a new OS with a new UI like on the Hero I think they did very very well on the first release.
Now I fully agree with the OP, the lag/speed issue with the first ROM was not in HTC's favour. It was something that came up in every review, and people still believe that's a big Hero issue even while it's fixed. On the other hand, there might have been more important things that were fixed during development.
Usually speed improvements and tweaking stuff like that is something you do last. Other bugs and stuff has to be fixed first.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Some of these bugs are quite known more or less right out of the box, for instance logging into the market, you couldn't do this unless you actually entered your google credentials when you first setup the phone.
People are going to compare the Hero with the likes of the iPhone, it's the only comparable handset out on the market at the moment. But what i'm afraid of is the lack of future support for the Hero, as yet another handset is on the horizon from HTC. OK, maybe Apple have got it right in respect of only having to supporting one handset (and very simalar firmwares, agreed) which means more time focusing on bug fixes and upgrades.
I hope HTC do not put the Hero to the back of the pile and focus on new handsets

Nexus One. We're being phased out, and quickly.

NOW! I know it is possibly too early to jump to conclusions, but I have recently been reading through some posts about how our Nexus One's are slowly, sadly and surely becoming obsolete. I agree with this theory in the fact that we aren't getting any love/support anymore. Granted, i know that Froyo is on the way, but i feel as though our hardware could have been better from the get-go, and that now (starting to become the long run since launch) it will be the death of this phone on a large basis. I feel as though Google has left us behind with some major issues, and has crippled the Nexus One name, purely because they seem like they don't want to deal with it anymore. Support is limited at that, and updates are scarce (one update to be exact, and even that OTA had problems), even for non-root users. Development, even though sometimes a tedious task, is moving slowly. We have a small selections of stable roms and thats about it. Nothing super fantastic (granted CyanogenMod and Modaco's ROMS are great, but not legendary), nothing special. I feel like there was more support for the (i hate to bring it in) iPhone in terms of the community and the modding experience.
Simply, I absolutely LOVE my Nexus One, but i feel like it is not getting the support it deserves, and i DO NOT want this beautiful piece of technology to be obsolete by september. i hope you guys are with me on this, because i think we all know that this phone could easily be something BETTER than what it is now. and it SHOULD be able to compete with any phone within a year from now because it's Google's baby. GOOGLE: GIVE US MORE for our phones and for our money. Because, even though i feel like this is the best phone i've ever had, 1) i feel like it'll be obsolete in a few months and 2) im starting to feel like i wasted my money.
long live nexus

+1 .......

The Nexus one will be the standard by which all android phones are measured for at-least another year.
Keeping everything pure AOSP is a huge plus IMO.
Official updates are slow, but code is being committed to the repository regularly and makes it on to the custom ROMS very quickly.
There is no phone out there with better features and community support than the one you have
There is no other phone on google.com/phone... so we are still the only child.

Google is trying to catch up the rest of the android world to 2.1
VZ cut them off it seems from the N1 and instead VZ gets another great Android handset.
Froyo has some much needed upgrades and will help (in theory) android solidify itself by stabilizing the platform for devs.
JIT/Flash/Market /Open GL / market upgrades are on there way if you believe the rumors.
What is it you feel is being phased out ?
Only about 500k users have an N1. Thats a miniscule amount.
Even with that we have two great devs putting out some very stable ROMS. Unlike the past N1 came with so many damn features out of box that we didnt need ROMs and Apps to add the 101 missing features.
Listen I am still up in Googles rectum about alot of features that need to be fixed/enhanced on Android. We all knew N1 was the first of the snapdragons. The others are storming in blasting taking attention away from us...but theyre all on the same team....they all bleed green =-)
Sure Id love to be slapping on Sense widgets , Moto Blur social network apps , etc...but thats up to us as a community to do it (if ever technically possible).
Anyways feel good about your purchase. You still have the best available phone on the market and will until the EVO/Iphone4G drop. And even then..youd still be top 3 at worst.

There isn't much development because there isn't much to do. The Nexus has the latest firmware and top specs. Of announced phones only the Evo and Galaxy S have significantly better specs everything else is just a SLIGHTLY upgraded Nexus. No porting apps or firmwares are needed. The only thing to really do is optimize what we have (cyanogen is doing that) and port sense UI (Paul is doing that). I'm happy with my Nexus .....for now hehe

zach I can understand the complaints about some of the nagging issues the phone has had (3G, purple tint etc.) but two things we have to realize: A majority of the users don't experience these problems, and in no way is our phone going to be obsolete anytime soon.
Here is a post I made regarding the Incredible screen, I think it's relevant here:
jasrups said:
Here's my take:
Would I like to have this screen in my Nexus? Yea it would have been a nice feature. Do I need this screen? No, not in the slightest.. Not yet anyways. The only apps that would require a screen like that are games, and I don't play the type of games on my phone that would require axis-crossing multitouch. I know some people do, and I can respect that but I don't, hence why I don't care about this right now.
Frankly, if you're playing those kinds of games anyways, just get an iPhone (and I'm not saying that in a bad way). iPhone is unmatched when it comes to gameplay and plus you can get them all for free if you jailbreak. Yea The Incredible has a capable screen, but do you know long it's going to take Android to catch up to Apple when it comes to game quality?? Android just got games like Racing Thunder 2 and Homerun Battle 3D while you can play Street Fighter 4 and freaking Grand Theft Auto on the iPhone! It's no competition.. if you want to game, you don't have the right phone.
By the time Android actually starts developing games and apps that can take advantage of the axis crossing MT, The Incredible will be "obsolete" (as some of you like to put it) so no need for everyone to get their panties in a bunch
With most things I normally have a realist perspective and am usually the first to 'hate' on something when its deserved, but alot of you guys are just a bunch of downers. The Incredible is a great phone as is the Nexus, everyone should just appreciate what they have! If you keep chasing the newest technology (no matter how impractical it is) you will never be satisfied!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There will always be new technology coming out faster than we can keep up with, the important thing is to not prematurely write one product off as soon as a newer one becomes available. People will be saying the same thing about the Incredible/4G Evo etc in a few months from now. That's just the ways things are. If you have that mentality you will want a new phone every few months regardless of how good it is.
Regarding the selection of ROMS.. Guys, right now we have the top of the line OS on our phones.. 2.1 is the standard, most of the G1/Magic ROMS are trying to replicate what we already have stock. Believe me, once Froyo and Android 3.0 come out the devs will be right on it and we'll get awesome ports. We have great developers who will make sure our phones have the newest software on our devices.
And if worst comes to worst and some of you decide to sell your Nexus this summer, it will have excellent resale value.

Don't worry, This is the phone Google are actively giving to developers. We'll be here for a while to come yet.

Well
I most definetely do not believe the nexus one will be phased out anytime soon, actually i will be ordering one tonight as a matter of fact. yes we may not have the best touch screens or the greatest rom develipment, but that is because we are still number one There are no other builds to even create until phones of this caliber runnng other os are on the scene. And for the touch screen issue, whe the time comes to where we truely need multitouch for games on the market out nexus's WILL be outdated, or there WILL be a fix for this, i mean geez Cyanogen has nearly finished a fully working Eclair for the g1 already, all i see is hope and excitment for the future of this device, the market also needs some serious time to catch up to apples games (please dont get upset with this, its true) The only thing i can see actually outdating our phones are dual processors capable of OVER 1.5 otherwise i dont believe they will be extinct, not even the 1.3 samsung will hurt the nexus i think considering we can be oc'ed to 1.3 anyways i do believe, or at least close

I don't think that we're being phased out, not until another year. Each phone that comes in the market gets compared to Nexus One.
As far as the development is concerned, its very satisfactory. Comparing the development scene between N1 an iPhone, iPhone sold nearly 50x the units of N1 sold. So most app developers have their focus on iPhone as it stands them a better chance of making more money..... But still development on N1 is much better.....

jasrups said:
:
There will always be new technology coming out faster than we can keep up with, the important thing is to not prematurely write one product off as soon as a newer one becomes available. People will be saying the same thing about the Incredible/4G Evo etc in a few months from now. That's just the ways things are. If you have that mentality you will want a new phone every few months regardless of how good it is.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
I’m beginning to think some people have never bought a phone before, or a computer for that matter.
Did people expect the N1 to the absolute top spec phone forever? Seriously its still amazing compared to most, and measures up nicely in all significant ways to these new phones it keeps getting compared to. Stop trying to bury it before its even close to dead.
There is always something newer coming. No exceptions. There are phones in development now that will top the Evo and Incredible. At some point you have to buy something or you’ll wait forever.
The N1 is Google’s flag ship phone. I bought it for that reason. If Google is developing something cool (like FroYo!) its pretty much guaranteed to come to us first. Its not being phased out. I think there are exciting things to come…

You have got to be kidding. Seriously?
zachthemaster said:
NOW! I know it is possibly too early to jump to conclusions, but I have recently been reading through some posts about how our Nexus One's are slowly, sadly and surely becoming obsolete. I agree with this theory
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How does the best Android phone currently on the market obsolete? You must be working from a totally different definition of "obsolete".
zachthemaster said:
in the fact that we aren't getting any love/support anymore.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
THAT must be why Google is giving Nexus Ones out to so many developers! Because they don't love it anymore and want to get rid of it!
zachthemaster said:
Granted, i know that Froyo is on the way, but i feel as though our hardware could have been better from the get-go, and that now (starting to become the long run since launch) it will be the death of this phone on a large basis.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As if Froyo isn't a major undertaking.
In what way could the hardware have been better, without delaying the release of the phone?
zachthemaster said:
I feel as though Google has left us behind with some major issues, and has crippled the Nexus One name, purely because they seem like they don't want to deal with it anymore. Support is limited at that
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are we talking about the same phone? In what way is it crippled?
Google has upped its support, hired more support personnel, and continues to present the N1 as its flagship phone. How does that equate to "they don't want to deal with it anymore"?
zachthemaster said:
and updates are scarce (one update to be exact, and even that OTA had problems), even for non-root users.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How long has the N1 been out? Just how often did you expect an update? I think your expectations might be wildly unrealistic.
And "even for non-root users"!?! WTF does that mean? If anything, non-root users have far fewer updates -- rooted users are getting the updates from CM as soon as Google commits them to the source repository, whereas "even" implies that you expect non-root users to receive more updates, which is completely backwards.
zachthemaster said:
Development, even though sometimes a tedious task, is moving slowly. We have a small selections of stable roms and thats about it. Nothing super fantastic (granted CyanogenMod and Modaco's ROMS are great, but not legendary), nothing special.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you don't think CM is "super fantasic" then I invite you to go back to the stock N1 rom. Installing CM for the first time is like getting a whole new phone.
zachthemaster said:
I feel like there was more support for the (i hate to bring it in) iPhone in terms of the community and the modding experience.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Somebody call the waaaaaaaaaahmbulance.

I don't buy it. I don't like the multitouch sensor they used for the phone, and I think the scrolling could be smoother, but what do you really expect from Google? Short of them sending out free hardware upgrades, what are you really looking for to not feel phased out?
The Nexus One is a great phone, at least for me. Even with the multitouch issues, I'm able to pull off running jumps when I play Super Mario World and the like. And that issue is allegedly being worked on with 2.2. If they flat out said the Nexus One wasn't getting 2.2 then you could make the claim of the Nexus One being phased out.
As far as network issues go, I have zero problems with my AT&T Nexus One and 3G. I live in the DC Metro area, for what it's worth. Most problems I've heard from people are all on T-Mobile. Who's to say the problem isn't on T-Mobile's side instead of Google's? Everyone blames AT&T's network for the iPhone's network issues, but it's pretty clear that the radio in the iPhone is garbage.
We live in a time where there are 1ghz processors in handheld devices. Technology is advancing so fast. It's always going to hurt when your $500+ dollar device isn't the best around anymore, but do you really want forward progress to slow down so you feel like you have the best phone longer?
I think you're being overly paranoid, if you ask me. So long as you love the phone, what do you care?

danguyf said:
You have got to be kidding. Seriously?
How does the best Android phone currently on the market obsolete? You must be working from a totally different definition of "obsolete".
THAT must be why Google is giving Nexus Ones out to so many developers! Because they don't love it anymore and want to get rid of it!
As if Froyo isn't a major undertaking.
In what way could the hardware have been better, without delaying the release of the phone?
Are we talking about the same phone? In what way is it crippled?
Google has upped its support, hired more support personnel, and continues to present the N1 as its flagship phone. How does that equate to "they don't want to deal with it anymore"?
How long has the N1 been out? Just how often did you expect an update? I think your expectations might be wildly unrealistic.
And "even for non-root users"!?! WTF does that mean? If anything, non-root users have far fewer updates -- rooted users are getting the updates from CM as soon as Google commits them to the source repository, whereas "even" implies that you expect non-root users to receive more updates, which is completely backwards.
If you don't think CM is "super fantasic" then I invite you to go back to the stock N1 rom. Installing CM for the first time is like getting a whole new phone.
Somebody call the waaaaaaaaaahmbulance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I didn't wanna quote the whole thing (sorry everyone) but this is the post of the year IMO!!!! Every counter argument you made is perfect.....This thread is BOGUS!!!!!!

You can't compare the modding/dev community of the N1 to the iPhone anyways.
The iphone has FAR more units out there, and the Apple cult is still buying. The iPhone also has more that is needed as far as mods to make it a nice OS.
The iPhone also runs native binaries, so there seem to be a lot more standard systems written for it, or so I was told in my Q&A thread. The iPhone has full apt packaging system, full set of GNU tools, full OpenSSH suite, etc.
The iPhone also has a lot more core teams of dedicated modders, while Android seems to have 1-2, at least for the N1. This is, again, I think due to the fact that the iPhone needs more mods to make it a good OS.

Without boobs, this thread is a waste of time.

Not even boobs can rescue the OP's post.

martin0285 said:
I didn't wanna quote the whole thing (sorry everyone) but this is the post of the year IMO!!!! Every counter argument you made is perfect.....This thread is BOGUS!!!!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
attn1 said:
Without boobs, this thread is a waste of time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree wholeheartedly with both of you.

zachthemaster said:
NOW! I know it is possibly too early to jump to conclusions, but I have recently been reading through some posts about how our Nexus One's are slowly, sadly and surely becoming obsolete.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can you link these posts?
How is the N1 becoming obsolete? What are your reasons? I have yet to see any indication of this.
updates are scarce (one update to be exact, and even that OTA had problems), even for non-root users.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What kind of crap is this? Yes, the N1 has received 1 update. Which is 1 more than MANY other Android phones in YEARS.
Development, even though sometimes a tedious task, is moving slowly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here's the Android source code:
http://android.git.kernel.org/
Get to work!
GOOGLE: GIVE US MORE for our phones and for our money
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Give more WHAT?

Enjoy the wave for as long as it lasts... which will be a long time
Tech wise phones go obsolete much faster than a PC ever would for the simple fact that you are in a closed environment. You can't upgrade the RAM, graphics or CPU on one of these things so shelf life is in terms of months not years. But that's not to say that support will go away for the N1 any time soon. OP is just acknowledging/exhibiting the mid-life crisis that the N1 is in currently. It's still the flagship product and a benchmark for every phone slated to be released this year. Next year may be different--hell I'm sure it will be--but for now, we're good and there's enough power that it'll still be viable 2 years from now. If you need a current tangible example, just look at how many G1's there are out there and how long that phone has been out.
I came from the dismally dysfunctional land of the Epix from Samsung where between them and AT&T, they couldn't figure out who was suppose to be doing the obligatory reach-around. With the N1 there are no more worries about the carrier holding up the updates for a fix to a major problem introduced by another fix almost a year prior for an infantile notification issue., there are no more issues with contractual obilgations to corporate partnerships (Yahoo) with draconian imposed restrictions to enforce it(backflip) and mostly there's no more waiting for the mfg to finally update their license to a newer version OS if they even bother going that route to begin with. Open architecture, open software and an infinite amount of potential for old and new phones is why I'm here and I'm sure a bunch of others are too.
So to anyone else reading this and especially to Sprint customers that are waiting for the N1, catch the wave however you want(N1, Evo, etc) but enjoy it for what it is--a long great ride and loads of fun--cowabunga!

Did somebody say boobs? Er, was I supposed to get something else out of this?

SE wants to become Android's largest handset maker...

I'm a big SE fan, but this somehow makes me smile....
www.businessweek.com/news/2010-09-0...e-world-s-largest-android-phone-supplier.html

Haha Darn! you beat me by a minute!

It'll be the Japanese market.. the X10 is more popular than air over there..!!!!

More like Android 1.6's largest handset maker

yeah and i want to become worlds greatest dictator

I wouldn't dismiss the idea that quickly. Here in Sweden SE is a very popular brand and by the looks of it they're popular in Japan as well. If they decide to go with Android on all their future phones and start marketing them more aggressively in the US they have a chance. They have the production capacity for it, they're well known and even if all models aren't fantastic there's no denying the build quality of their devices. Even though I've passed up SE phones because of their crappy software I've always been impressed by how well built and solid their phones feel.
With good marketing and if they get better at working on Android their chances are pretty good. They have the infrastructure to reach that goal, that goes a long way.

Yes, but you must agree that their android software department need to be improved in order to reach that goal...
Sent from my X10i using XDA App

mezo9090 said:
Yes, but you must agree that their android software department need to be improved in order to reach that goal...
Sent from my X10i using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed, but keep in mind that the X10 series is the first time SE has used it. I'd be more worried or surprised if there weren't any bumps in the road.
Just looking at the updates we've had so far they've improved a lot. Fixing the battery issue, improving the built-in software and so on.

ddewbofh said:
Agreed, but keep in mind that the X10 series is the first time SE has used it. I'd be more worried or surprised if there weren't any bumps in the road.
Just looking at the updates we've had so far they've improved a lot. Fixing the battery issue, improving the built-in software and so on.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
dude its not about flaws in their software ... its about how they handle it ...
the incall volume is so ****ed up for a lot of people - when you talk to the customer support they tell you something like this "for me its okay - if you dont like it you can send your phone in" their official support form is full with topics about it ... same goes for the standby time ... it says 17 days on their homepage ... i asked customer support about it and he told me my phone must be damaged - i can send it in ... (he also said he gets 3 days of standy - i am pretty sure it doesnt even last 17 days when you turn it completely off^^)
i knew the support would suck ... but the hardware is quite good (besides from the lack of multitouch) - i just bought it coz i have faith in the community that they ll release custom roms soon

SE has released only one(3 version of same) android phone in the market in past 2 years when HTC has released atleast 4 or 5 and plus they are upto 2.2 on most of their phones. I don't think SE can catch to them any time soon just based ads showing Timescape

SE ship twie the number of phones as compared to HTC having come down from a stage where they shipped 6x more phones. So they are pretty capable as we all know. Now with Sony into the mix, SE phones would have PS3 compatibility, remote play, access to Sonys own online store, access to more Sony brands like VAIO, BRAVIA, etc. Well..

Sony has been associated with Ericsson for ages (from an IT time perspective) so one would think they'd at least be nipping at Nokia's heels by now. But who knows? Maybe Android will be the push they need to pump some much needed energy in to the brand? Time will tell, as long as they don't ditch Android I'll stay satisfied.

xGary said:
More like Android 1.6's largest handset maker
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
right 100%

Yeah that'll only happen if the secret owner of Sony Ericsson is Chuck Norris... cause only Chuck Norris can make that happen..! lol

They sure have the hardware capacity to get it done, but they are just so stupid and arrogant that I do not think it'll ever happen.
If they're serious, I'd swap in the current software department for some new blood.
It's really crazy how companies nowadays can't even get simple things done right.

As the old saying goes... "too many chiefs and not enough indians".
Until SE gets their act together and stops all the internal bickering and movement within the ranks, this will never be a realistic goal for them to achieve.

I think it's time we eased up on slamming SE. Since we don't actually know how the process works internally it's unpossible to tell if they're just lazy, they're still getting used to a new product line or any other unforeseen problem for that sake.
I intentionally refrain from calling them incompetent simply because my experiences with their products in the past has been great and I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt.

ddewbofh said:
I think it's time we eased up on slamming SE. Since we don't actually know how the process works internally it's unpossible to tell if they're just lazy, they're still getting used to a new product line or any other unforeseen problem for that sake.
I intentionally refrain from calling them incompetent simply because my experiences with their products in the past has been great and I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with your statement. We don't really know the reason. I read it in some post somewhere else that it's ready, but they want to test it thoroughly before releasing to the general public...

Whoever is responsible for being so slow to update, I somehow doubt that it's their developers. They are just doing what they are told by management. If Sonys developers are anything like other software devs I know they are not too happy with releasing their product with 1.6 instead of 2.1 or 2.2...

ddewbofh said:
...unpossible...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Impossimpable! (Hope someone gets it - HIMYM).
jk btw don't take badly

KitKat ETA?

I'm trying to get a date for the KitKat update, has anyone heard anything? I'm so on the fence about this device.

Hi,
We'll update with an ETA once we're a bit further through with development.

Very glad to hear that there is development on building out a Kit Kat update.

It's a console, i don't think you really need kitkat..

lKinder_Bueno said:
It's a console, i don't think you really need kitkat..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's an android device. KitKat contains bug fixes, scaling optimizations, new ui features, bluetooth 4.0, among many other things. You definitely want the latest version of your OS.
Come on brah.

jjprichards said:
It's an android device. KitKat contains bug fixes, scaling optimizations, new ui features, bluetooth 4.0, among many other things. You definitely want the latest version of your OS.
Come on brah.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Also, in KitKat fullscreen apps can hide the navigation buttons.

Okay, it is now February 3rd.
Where is GameStream and KitKat?!
I'm ready to buy it, but I need these 2 things. And all I'm hearing are "it's coming soon! "
Bah.

I'm getting antsy for it as well. I'm not rooting until after KK comes...just to avoid any unnecessary hassle. The more I use it, the more I enjoy it. I don't think you'll be disappointed if you went ahead and got one.

ExtremeRyno said:
I'm getting antsy for it as well. I'm not rooting until after KK comes...just to avoid any unnecessary hassle. The more I use it, the more I enjoy it. I don't think you'll be disappointed if you went ahead and got one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd love to get one. But not for $300.

Weren't you going to take Pleiades up on her $170 offer? For that price it's a steal.
As I've previously indicated, we'll give a more concrete ETA on KitKat and Gamestream once we're closer to their release.

Haha, yep at that price I'll get it for sure.

jjprichards said:
Haha, yep at that price I'll get it for sure.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How long does it really take to implement KitKat though? It's an upgrade to the OS. What are the barriers right now?

jjprichards said:
How long does it really take to implement KitKat though? It's an upgrade to the OS. What are the barriers right now?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
:laugh: jjprichards, have a break, have a kitkat
Seriously, you not motivating them to finish it faster with your constant asking about kitkat.

KitKat is sufficiently different to not be considered "just an upgrade" - there's some major changes to the OS going on in there.
Plus, we can't just build it and release it - with an Android device there are so many variables that need testing and retesting; then, once we're happy it has to go to Google for certification... Basically a quick turnaround is not something you're looking at here!

I dont want to bash mad catz cause their a hardware company not software and i believe they had the best intentions at heart from the start, but would it not make more sense to just bite the bullet and admit this has been a massive flop and give out 30 units to the elite development teams that are well renowned on xda and just let them sort the console out. Pretty sure they could make this devise epic in a matter of days rather than us having to wait until 2042 until any kind of releases are available which will probably be totally underwhelming
at least that way you might shift a few more units once its actually up and running correctly.
I remember when i got my jxds7300, it was a bag of crap pretty much like the mojos current state cause of the software being so poor, a few devises went to some decent devs and the source code accidently got leaked. litteraly within a day we had 2 custom roms with major major improvement virtually all bugs were fixed, compatability went up ten fold, a built to purpose key mapper for the devise and loads of cool tweeks became available, along with cwm.
i know jxds chinese and dont play by the rules but if you cant beet'em join'em. Its not mad catz fault if the source codes accidently leaked onto the web
But seriously look through every devise on xda and theirs so many cool tweeks and projects going on for virtually every devise made. Then you get to the m.o.j.o and its almost like its considered the total outcast no one wants to touch with a 10ft pole even the 3rd party charged with the android build dont appear to want to go near this console. they might be doing something but 6 months is a hell of a long time in the world of android for nothing at all which would suggest its pretty much been given up on.
Also it didnt do any harm for me, but isnt using a male to male usb to root kinda a dodgy way of us having to make this thing work? if their both usb males surely powers being sent both ways through the cable creating the potential to fry both the mojo and computer under the right circumstances. or am i being dumb again not an expert on electricity. I mean theirs a fing sd card slot. hows their not a built in bootlader that accesses the micro sd slot thats totally insane and asking for trouble
Soz if this comes across as a rant which it kinda is, but everything around the mojo seems a complete farse looking in from the outside so far. which is a massive massive shame as it had the potential for such great things. With out the xda devs on board this thing will always be mediocre

Ash180287 said:
Soz if this comes across as a rant which it kinda is, but everything around the mojo seems a complete farse looking in from the outside so far. which is a massive massive shame as it had the potential for such great things. With out the xda devs on board this thing will always be mediocre
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
:highfive:

I heard about it pre-launch and thought it was cool, had forgotten about it until recently, but IMO this is no where near the price point to where people will pick it up, while this is worlds better than ouya, even ouya is still overpriced at 100 bucks when you have major competitors like amazon fire tv. the mojo has teh specs and some other perks but at 200 bucks it just makes far more sense to buy the much more supported fire tv and use controllers on that.

How will updates be? Like Nexus/Pixel line?

One of the strong points of the Nexus and Pixel line is that you can get frequent updates (https://developers.google.com/android/images). How will the updates look like from Essential? One time upgrade, and then abandon us? Or frequent ASOP updates with fixes?

Whatever they may say about it, we won't really know until the updates come or not. It's being said it's either very close to stock or stock so getting upgrades out should be easy enough in a practical sense.

I'm pretty sure Rubin said in his hour long interview witih Walt Mossberg that it would get regular month security updates, if not better.
The bigger concern is how long will they support the phone for? Just two or three years like Google (making the phone insecure and obsolete after that)? Or five years like Apple? Even more importantly, what if they just don't succeed. If the company folds after a year or two, there will certainly be no updates after that. That's a chance one takes with a new company.

The community will carry it for a while if they move enough of them. As to Rubin, the proof is in the pudding. We've been sold the regular updates thing before and never actually got them or had them stop short. Time will tell.

I don't see updates being a problem. It seems to pretty much be stock Android with a few added features for the cameras and their modules to be released.

Right, but the question is how long they will lag. Lots of manufacturers make claims about updates.
Have they made any statements?

I played with one yesterday and it is almost completely stock 7.1.1 except for the camera software and the little bits in the code that control the modules. I see Andy making sure this gets updated to Oreo by the time the new pixels drop. that is 2 months out. dont quote me though

This is what I wanted to know, since its basically stock. Will it get Oreo (Android 8.0) fairly soon?

SS2006 said:
This is what I wanted to know, since its basically stock. Will it get Oreo (Android 8.0) fairly soon?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Considering how Android Oreo is built I say there is a good chance of quickish updates. 8.0 keeps the make Android code separate from any customizations now. They leave the hooks open do to your own thing besides their code. I think this is why Andy went super stock with 7.1.1 to make it easier later on and they can do more customization leader with their software because it will be easier after Oreo.
Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

MKBHD and I were talking to one of their software engineers (who use to work for Google as well) at the event on Monday and he told us they were already working on Oreo. In MKBHD's unboxing and first impressions video he mentioned a few of the things that were talked about in that discussion like it being easier to quickly update because it's so close to stock etc.. Although, once they release their home device with Ambient OS I bet we see more customizations on the phone firmware to accommodate that

One thing I question, why 7.1.1 vs 7.1.2? .2 offered a few neat last bit of features before 8.0 so its interesting why almost all OEM's have stuck with 1.1 before possibly jumping to 8.0.

IM0001 said:
One thing I question, why 7.1.1 vs 7.1.2? .2 offered a few neat last bit of features before 8.0 so its interesting why almost all OEM's have stuck with 1.1 before possibly jumping to 8.0.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unless I'm reading it wrong it looks like the 7.1.2 update was targeted for Nexus and Pixel devices. Most of the fixes fix issues specific to those devices so why would an OEM port an update that doesn't affect their device.
Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

superchilpil said:
Unless I'm reading it wrong it looks like the 7.1.2 update was targeted for Nexus and Pixel devices. Most of the fixes fix issues specific to those devices so why would an OEM port an update that doesn't affect their device.
Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This may be true, but it did also bring thins like the long touch shortcut feature as well as the fingerprint sensor swipe feature that may work on other hardware that had the same sensor hardware.
It's not a big deal, and though we have 8.0 now, I might want to wait a bit for Google to release a update to that as well hearing what I am from early adopters that have 8.0 now on their Pixel's. New features and battery life improvements plagued with persistent notifications, worse BT, and other odds and bits that seem like rushed bugs.
Exactly what I would expect from Version X.0 for a major OS change so not surprising at all.

cb474 said:
I'm pretty sure Rubin said in his hour long interview witih Walt Mossberg that it would get regular month security updates, if not better.
The bigger concern is how long will they support the phone for? Just two or three years like Google (making the phone insecure and obsolete after that)? Or five years like Apple? Even more importantly, what if they just don't succeed. If the company folds after a year or two, there will certainly be no updates after that. That's a chance one takes with a new company.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A very valid concern. Especially since these sorts of people and companies throw a bunch of money at stuff and if it doesnt look like it is going to get the giant return on the investment they hope within a year or so then they do shut it down and move on to their next big thing.
My other concern with this is if we will get full kernel source or not as well. I would assume yes, since Andy helped make the deal about Andsroid being so open and sources available, but you never know with phone OEMs. Even though this is basically stock ROM, I bet the kernel source will be needed so we can interface the best with the accessory pins and make use of the custom camera stuff.

EniGmA1987 said:
A very valid concern. Especially since these sorts of people and companies throw a bunch of money at stuff and if it doesnt look like it is going to get the giant return on the investment they hope within a year or so then they do shut it down and move on to their next big thing.
My other concern with this is if we will get full kernel source or not as well. I would assume yes, since Andy helped make the deal about Andsroid being so open and sources available, but you never know with phone OEMs. Even though this is basically stock ROM, I bet the kernel source will be needed so we can interface the best with the accessory pins and make use of the custom camera stuff.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Also, even if they make the kernel source available, will the phone be popular with developers? It seems like the sort of phone that might. As you say, Rubin is very supportive of open source (even on the hardware for the modules). But on the other hand, it's an expensive and quirky phone. Even the Pixel (with its huge price jump and move away from the Nexus brand) took much longer to catch on with developers than previous Nexus phones had. I'm hoping the devs like it.