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I want to start this discussion because I haven't seen it anywhere and I read several Android forums. I love the platform and it's "openess" but it seems that requirements from Google fall just short of making this the best platform ever for handsets.
We are all screaming at Motorola about the signed bl but we aren't focusing enough on the greater issue. The Android license from Google seems to allow this or maybe it is less specific to Google than to some other entity but I don't speak lawyerese so i'm not sure. Anyway, here is what I keep reading from Motorola...
"The use of open source software, such as the Linux kernel or the Android platform, in a consumer device does not require the handset running such software to be open for re-flashing. We comply with the licenses, including GPLv2, for each of the open source packages in our handsets"
My point of discussion is this, why aren't we asking Google what they can do? Why can't Google simply state that "we will not allow our software to be damaged in this way"? Why do they allow Verizon, at&t, Motorola, HTC or anyone else manipulate their software in a way that brings so much resentment? Is it not in Google's best interest to force this platform to remain open? I realize this is a double edged sword because open means people can do what they want, which holds true for companies also but I think that everyone realizes that Google's intent was that this would benefit everyone, not just the companies.
Also, everyone seems to forget that HTC is messing around with trying to lock down the NAND. Just because geniuses get past the protection doesn't mean that HTC isn't trying. If the Droid X is a huge success, even with this restriction in place, then what makes any of you think that the rest will not follow suit?
Because open means that you can do whatever you want with it. There is nothing stopping anyone from using it, modifying it for their own uses, and putting it in any device that would support it. That's why a company can strip down all of Google stuff from it and put Bing if they want to, and Google wouldn't be able to complain. The whole point of open and free software is that you compete by actually being the best at something. You keep Google stuff in Android because well, they work best.
Now, when you put Android in a device you manufacture, you do have the rights to do whatever you want with the device. This seems to be a hardware protection on top of the software ones. You know how DRM'd mp3 stop working? well, it's not much different, except that now there is physical damage.
True, these measures defeat the whole purpose of being open, but what the heck. Being truly open means making a great product, and then not complaining when someone grabs it and beats you with it. You have are always competing to deliver the best product, and that's why open is awesome.
Who was it that said: "I can't agree with what you are saying, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"?
Open goes both ways. The company (Motorola) has every right to lock down the bootloader and prevent others from flashing.
You guys are looking at it as if Motorola did this to prevent people from flashing custom roms. The real reason they did it was to prevent others from stealing their rom and porting it to another phone. If you like the "ninjablur" UI, you need to buy the DroidX.
Ryan Frawley said:
Open goes both ways. The company (Motorola) has every right to lock down the bootloader and prevent others from flashing.
You guys are looking at it as if Motorola did this to prevent people from flashing custom roms. The real reason they did it was to prevent others from stealing their rom and porting it to another phone. If you like the "ninjablur" UI, you need to buy the DroidX.
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Actually, I don't agree. I'm pretty sure one could extract those widgets if you really wanted to. (They "Ain't all that" if you ask me. - And yes, I did buy an X yesterday and love it. Just ain't crazy about those widgets).
I think the real reason this is locked down is to prevent custom ROM/Root access to enable tethering. There are other issues I'm sure, but at the top of the list is to protect that revenue Big Red is trying to generate.
As to Google 'Stopping' the carriers from locking this down, please understand that if the carriers can't protect their revenue streams, they simply won't allow the phones on their network, and that would hinder the growth of the OS in general.
Don't take any of my words as endorsement of VZW/Moto actions. I'll be first in line to flash/root my phone when/if its ever possible. I'm just a realist. VZW wants $20/month for WiFi Tether. They are going to do as much as reasonably possible to keep you from doing that for free.
In a related note, 2.2 Froyo does tethering natively. I expect this to be crippled/disabled when we get our update in a couple of months.
I don't agree with the idea that companies would stop supporting the platform. The Droid has been a cash cow for verizon and it is an open book. Google could easily ask that their platform remain open for all to enjoy.
Beyond that, if Google allows them to gimp their OS then Google has created something entirely for the benefit of companies and not at all for the general population. I don't believe this is true. I think that the changes will start with Android v3.0. Google will start getting more pissy about custom crap especially if it makes their product seem worse and increase the chance that Android will be looked upon negatively.
Despiadado1 said:
I don't agree with the idea that companies would stop supporting the platform. The Droid has been a cash cow for verizon and it is an open book. Google could easily ask that their platform remain open for all to enjoy.
Beyond that, if Google allows them to gimp their OS then Google has created something entirely for the benefit of companies and not at all for the general population. I don't believe this is true. I think that the changes will start with Android v3.0. Google will start getting more pissy about custom crap especially if it makes their product seem worse and increase the chance that Android will be looked upon negatively.
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Its the same problem with windows, the OS gets blamed for what hardware vendors do to it... we see this $400 computers getting compared to Apples $1500+ computers and thats some how proof windows sucks, I never had problems with Vista being slow, but people and there $400 computer did.
The problem with Android, specifically the scrolling smoothness, is the vendors custom Android OS setups...
FtL1776 said:
Its the same problem with windows, the OS gets blamed for what hardware vendors do to it... we see this $400 computers getting compared to Apples $1500+ computers and thats some how proof windows sucks, I never had problems with Vista being slow, but people and there $400 computer did.
The problem with Android, specifically the scrolling smoothness, is the vendors custom Android OS setups...
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To be fair, I think the scrolling smoothness is half crappy hardware and half Android's lack of hardware acceleration.
Mikerrrrrrrr said:
To be fair, I think the scrolling smoothness is half crappy hardware and half Android's lack of hardware acceleration.
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No some custom roms fix those issues because they enable the hardware acceleration, which again shows that Google really should crack down on some of these custom versions of Android on phones.
Zaphod-Beeblebrox said:
Actually, I don't agree. I'm pretty sure one could extract those widgets if you really wanted to. (They "Ain't all that" if you ask me. - And yes, I did buy an X yesterday and love it. Just ain't crazy about those widgets).
I think the real reason this is locked down is to prevent custom ROM/Root access to enable tethering. There are other issues I'm sure, but at the top of the list is to protect that revenue Big Red is trying to generate.
As to Google 'Stopping' the carriers from locking this down, please understand that if the carriers can't protect their revenue streams, they simply won't allow the phones on their network, and that would hinder the growth of the OS in general.
Don't take any of my words as endorsement of VZW/Moto actions. I'll be first in line to flash/root my phone when/if its ever possible. I'm just a realist. VZW wants $20/month for WiFi Tether. They are going to do as much as reasonably possible to keep you from doing that for free.
In a related note, 2.2 Froyo does tethering natively. I expect this to be crippled/disabled when we get our update in a couple of months.
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Motorola has said so itself. The reason Droid X is locked down is because they don't want people stealing their custom UI. Widgets are only part of this UI. The inability to flash custom roms is merely a consequence of protecting their UI.
FtL1776 said:
No some custom roms fix those issues because they enable the hardware acceleration, which again shows that Google really should crack down on some of these custom versions of Android on phones.
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Ah. Didn't know that.
Hello Everyone!
Let me start off by reaching out to the XDA Administrative staff. I would like to thank you for keeping this awesome place in operation. Without you, and the XDA community, I'm not sure Android development would be as vibrant. Also, if this thread is in the wrong location, please shift it to where you would like it.
I am an Android user, not a developer, and I feel the future of the Android OS is not headed where I want it to. I'm writing this post to see if anyone has any further thoughts on the matter.
Google is marketing Android as an Open Source OS. You are able to download the source, modify it as you wish, and then build it. If you are running a vanilla build of Android (i.e. Nexus S) you are able to alter your experience as you see fit. The issue I foresee isn't the fragmentation of the Android versions (which is still debated as an issue), but rather the fragmentation of the user experience.
When an end-user purchases a handset from most major carriers, they receive an Android device. Between different handsets, and carriers, the features that are available to a single user can vary exponentially (i.e. the inability to install APK files, bypassing the market, on AT&T devices). This device is still based on Android, but is it still Android?
I have no problem with manufacturers adding their own code to the Android system, as long as the core functionality is kept the same. When you begin to alter the basic functionality of the system, at what point is it no longer Android? Linux Mint is derived from Ubuntu, but it is no longer Ubuntu. The system is a derivative of Ubuntu. If the base of the OS is going to be altered drastically (by manufacturer or by request of carrier) it needs to be known that the device is not Android.
As I am most familiar with HTC Android devices, I will use HTC SenseUI as an example (although, as I think about this more it may not be the best example). The core functionality of the HTC devices is similar, but not entirely the same. Most of the default applications (Browser, Contacts, Dialer) have been altered to what HTC feels is more atheistically pleasing. However, these features are additions. They are not removing functionality from the device.
With my HTC Evo (by default) there are core functionalities removed. Without rooting my device, I am unable to tether via WiFi. Even when rooting, if I want to keep the 4G experience, I need to install a third party application to tether instead of simply using the functionality that was supposed to be built in to Android. Why? Sprint has decided to bake their own hotspot functionality into the core of the OS. Yet to use it, I am required to pay an extra $30 fee on top of my [i/unlimited[/i] data plan. I am not knocking Sprint, here. As long as I have used their service, I’ve had nothing but stellar performance and the price point is perfect.
I feel with this core functionality removed, my Evo is no longer Android. It’s simply Android-based, an Android derived OS. The problem with these manufacturers, and their Android-derived operating system, is the lack-luster experience the consumers get with the product.
I started my Android experience on an HTC CDMA Hero. It took me eight months to get any major software upgrades (The device ran Android 1.5 from factory). Why? Because it was taking so long for manufacturers to bake their Features into the OS. If I was not a techie, I feel this experience would have pushed me away from the Android platform. I fear this fragmentation that is occurring could be the downfall of the Android platform.
I want to be able to buy a device. I want to be running the newest version of Android. If I do not like the ROM that came on the phone, I want to be able to change that. But I do not want to purchase a phone with all of this baked in garbage, or aesthetic features that require me to wait long periods of times for my device to be upgraded to the newest version of Android. And, I hope that I am not the only person to feel this way.
So here is my idea, pending input from the Android community of course: An open letter, with a petition, to all members of the OHA requesting for Android devices to be Android! Unadulterated Android OS from Google (With minor modifications to ensure specific hardware is working properly). Requesting that we are given access to the entire device, that we paid for, without having to exploit the operating system to obtain the ability to modify it as we see fit. If a manufacturer, or carrier, does not wish to comply with this, they will not be able to market the device as being Android. Rather, the device is based on Android.
Honestly, I’m not sure what I am looking to accomplish. Maybe, just so they know we are just as interested in Android as they are. And that we want nothing but for Android to succeed. Or maybe, that we support Android being open source, but not being heavily modified to the point where it’s a bastardized.
What do you think?
Tim, I support you in your belief that carriers, not manufacturers, are taking the wrong turn by messing with the full functionality that people pay a hefty price to OWN!
Do we truly OWN what we paid for, or are paying for? I don't believe so, for example, the SAMSUNG Vibrant t959, aka the Samsung Galaxy S i9000, same phone but the carriers decided to have certain features removed from the phone, not be MADE without these features, the FM radio HW and the FFC. Many people know these features were REMOVED, due to the leftover molding and other " skeletons"! Would anyone want to have a carrier when they know that they don't want there customers to have the FULLEST experience, like it was meant to be?
Sent from my HTC MyDesireHD 4G!
I would also like to share with you that MANUFACTURERS creating these "skins", I'm going to use HTC Sense for my example, is actually NOT a bad thing at all!
HTC Sense has opened a huge amount of rich content and functionality to there users immensely! HTC Hub, HTC Locations for example! All these add ons are very useful to users and does NOT restrict the full functionality but yet BOOSTS its functionality!
Unfortunately though, carriers decide to take these hearty and supreme names and totally rip it apart by taking away functionality, features, and the most...a good user experience! For example, my phone..the HTC MyTouch 4G aka the HTC Glacier. I received it with something called Sense on it, but any owner knows that is NOT Sense! That is not HTC Sense! After burying myself in the bowels of my new phone, I now have a HTC Desire HD Rom on it that will stay on it until I get the new HTC Sense 2.3 update! The full HTC Sense is a good thing and I strongly believe its worth waiting for!
Sent from my HTC Glacier
I agree, but believe Android is a growing mobile OS. If Google did not push their mobile OS (and let manufactures do what they want). Android probably would not have last against the competition. Its all a survival of the fittest situation. Some people are going to make use of their phones others aren't. Too bad bloatware has been the success for some Android phones. Glad someone else noticed this. Thank you for your thread.
The fact that Android is open source will inevitably have benefits and downfalls.
Benefits being that carriers and manufacturers can add cool stuff. Downfalls being that they can remove good or add awful stuff.
However Google can't have double standards. If it's open source, it's open source, for better or for worse.
An advantage of OEMs participating is that more parties are contributing to coding for android. More innovative ideas are potentially contributed.
For techies this is particularly awesome as we can port awesome features that perhaps weren't designed for our phone and disable lame restrictions. By this way we potentially can have all software benefits of more than one company brand etc.
Being an ordinary consumer in this context can suck.
Tim, while I understand your frustration (trust me, I've felt similar over the past few months), I don't fully agree.
The heart of Android is that it is Open. Open Source is a part of the openness that envelops Android, but what is meant by "Android is open" is so much more. OEM's skinning their devices is part of it; carriers stuffing devices full of their crapware is part of it; heck, even manufacturers/carriers limiting devices' use in one form or another is technically part of it. I think that Google's model with Android is that people can use in whatever way they see fit (except, you know, literally stealing it and claiming that they made and own it) and adapting it to be the OS that they want. Android gives people the freedom to do with it what they like.
I think that Google hopes that carriers, OEMs and everyone else will use it for the better and add to the functionality and maybe even contribute to the Open Source project and thus to the greater Android community and the vision thereof. Sadly, it is not always the case and then you get situations where a carrier or an OEM will limit a device in some way for a quick buck (your example of tethering on the EVO being a good one). I think that what AT&T did/does on their Android devices is as a final product a good example of what Android is not intended to be, but their actions are, technically, still in the spirit of Android.
The way I see Android, it is about the freedom to do whatever you like. Android is then also more for the thinking person as there are literally hundreds of devices to choose from and each one has strengths and weaknesses when compared to the rest. You as a user need to consider what it is that you want from your device and then select the device that is the most suited to your needs.
I want to be able to buy a device. I want to be running the newest version of Android. If I do not like the ROM that came on the phone, I want to be able to change that. But I do not want to purchase a phone with all of this baked in garbage, or aesthetic features that require me to wait long periods of times for my device to be upgraded to the newest version of Android. And, I hope that I am not the only person to feel this way.
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You are not the only person that feels that way, I feel the same, which is why I've decided to get myself a Nexus S. It's tricky to get it to this country, but it'll be worth it. I realise that you're on Sprint which means that a Nexus device won't work, correct? A better petition IMO, would be to petition Google to release CDMA versions of their devices.
Sorry to say, but 4G is not derived from android. The phone itself will always support it, harware wise. So, what are you saying? /: Who are you complaining to? ROM chefs for not managing to make the 4G fully functional?
totally agree with you
he is complaining about gimped devices being marketed as android devices. to sum up what i think his messages is; a device should not be called an android device if it is not fully capable of all it's natively supported features, wireless tether, root access etc. but rather should be called android based device.
Good idea but never going to happen. This is driving me away from this platform...
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
I'm curious as to what functionality we can get by simply rooting. I'm not seeing the huge deal I may be missing something so I'm asking
Sent from my Incredible using XDA App
To me, they should just change the launcher and add their own apps in (NOT replacing) and not touch other stuffs already. If totally not changing the OS makes them look alike. To me, thinking about Windows phone 7 in the future. Imagine seeing so many people holding a phone that has the totally same UI, its like seeing a Sony Ericsson X10 and a HTC Desire totally same except that the casing is different.
Technically, the fact that its open source is supposed to help the majority of OEMs, and in turnfilter down to end users as price cuts/ feature enhancements.
But premium features are premium features. You want some kind of 4g? You wont be getting it from end users at xda - it will come from manufacturers who build the radios and APIs into the device.
Android is a very modular os... if you want something all you have to do is a bit of research and buy the device that fits you best. If you go with one of the other systems you will simply have less choice. That is why android is cool.
aint gonna happen guys, doesnt make good business sense to make a device that does everything, why sell one model when you can sell two!
you can pick up any device out there and say, "wouldnt it be cool if it had VGA out or HD camera or x y z", they wont do it, and the same goes for the OS as well.
Open source has an inherant flaw, and that is its fragmentation, everyone believes it should be going in a direction they would like (including yourself). at the moment its not suffered as much as its desktop cousins probably because of its market place keeping one common aspect through all devices but give it time and you will be right, it will lose its "android" identification
If you want an alternative and a device that keeps its personality then get an Iphone or a new WP7 device at least until they crack that wide open too. Its a bit ironic really that WM may well suck but its very customizable and has been consistant throughout the ages
evo4gnw said:
he is complaining about gimped devices being marketed as android devices. to sum up what i think his messages is; a device should not be called an android device if it is not fully capable of all it's natively supported features, wireless tether, root access etc. but rather should be called android based device.
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But that's just the thing isn't it? Android can probably support ANYTHING. But because of that, you aren't supposed to release hardware that isn't as flexible? That to me.. is just looney.
Hello,
Im currently writing an academic paper on android and openness in my master's programme. If all goes well, it will be submitted for a conference soon.
I'm looking for your opinions on having an android device open for operating system level modifications or not. As you may know, some phones have a signed bootloader such as the Motorola Milestone, t-mobile g2 (who made the phone reinstall stock OS when breached), and probably many others. Google however, make their devices open, even though they are sold as consumer devices. Many others do not bother to install circumvention mechanics.
Obviously, the people here will be biased towards allowing modification to the OS, therefore, i would like to get a discussion going, to discern what problems and possibilities you see in the long run for hardware manufacturers.
1. Does the possibility of making OS level modifications affect your willingness to purchase an android product? i.e. do you check if it can be modified before buying? And how much of an impact does it make on your desicion?
2. Why do you think hardware manufacturers put in measures to prevent custom android OS builds to be installed? Put on the corporate hat and try to see their strategy.
3. Do you think manufacturers have anything to gain by making devices open and free for modification, with source code for drivers and the like publically available?
I would really appericiate your opinions and discussion!
1. Does the possibility of making OS level modifications affect your willingness to purchase an android product? i.e. do you check if it can be modified before buying? And how much of an impact does it make on your desicion?
As a beginner app developer, this has yet to bother me. I do enjoy being able to add apps that add functionality to my phone but I haven't bothered to get down into the "root" area. So no I do not check nor does it impact my decision...I own a Samsung fascinate by the way
2. Why do you think hardware manufacturers put in measures to prevent custom android OS builds to be installed? Put on the corporate hat and try to see their strategy.
My opinion on measures to prevent changes is all about PR and performance. If enough people hacked a phone and the hack caused the phone to work below is ability then the only news report you will see is the phone sucks.
3. Do you think manufacturers have anything to gain by making devices open and free for modification, with source code for drivers and the like publically available?
This is also a give and take if question 2 is not of a concern to them, then its def a gain for the company and to all of the developers out there that do search for the best phone and nick pick around until they find it.
Are there enough of those kind of people out there to affect a companies buttom line. Maybe not yet but in another couple of years who knows.
1. Does the possibility of making OS level modifications affect your willingness to purchase an android product? i.e. do you check if it can be modified before buying? And how much of an impact does it make on your desicion?
It hasnt yet been a deciding factor on which device to get, primarily because sooner or later they all get cracked open.
2. Why do you think hardware manufacturers put in measures to prevent custom android OS builds to be installed? Put on the corporate hat and try to see their strategy.
One reason could be that the carriers demand it as a way to keep any revenue that they get from the preinstalled bloatware.
3. Do you think manufacturers have anything to gain by making devices open and free for modification, with source code for drivers and the like publically available?
The percentage of people that actually tinker in this area is very slim, so the manufacturers most likely don't see that as a big market opportunity.
Don't have any answers, but would like to read your paper when done...sounds interesting and a Masters Thesis is always fun to read! LOL
It's not a thesis, just a short article. I might make a survey for it but I need to ask the right questions.
Not all devices get fully customized, root is common, but in my phone for example it is not possible to load a custom kernel, as the bootloader checks for signed code (Motorola's secret key). There's been a massive uproar from the owners of the Milestone, as people didn't expect to be hustled like that when getting an android phone. The main problem is of course, that Motorola takes a long time to release updates. Even as of today, Froyo has still not been released for my phone by Motorola.
While I am not sure about it, I suspect Sony Ericsson X10i owners are in the same boat, and they will get a really rotten deal, seeing as 2.1 has been officially declared the last version the device will recieve. Yet, an enthusiast could release a perfectly fine version of 2.3 if the phone accepted custom firmware and he had access to drivers etc.
So basically, you buy a piece of hardware that is very capable, but The Company decides for you which software you could run.
Imagine if you bought a Windows Vista PC right before Windows 7 was released, and the only way you could get Windows 7 on it was if that particular PC manufacturer released an official update containing all it's bloatware and applications you don't want. Since the update needs to go through all kinds of verifications and approvals, it might be delayed for a half a year, or maybe 9 months, after the new OS release. Why do we accept this on our phones and tablets?
Hi,
1. Does the possibility of making OS level modifications affect your willingness to purchase an android product? i.e. do you check if it can be modified before buying? And how much of an impact does it make on your desicion?
For me personally, yes, most definately. I like to be able to get in and play, see how things work, change stuff. And i think custom ROMs IMO are a big drawcard of Android.
2. Why do you think hardware manufacturers put in measures to prevent custom android OS builds to be installed? Put on the corporate hat and try to see their strategy.
To try and ensure the device works as they want it to. Minimise support costs etc.
3. Do you think manufacturers have anything to gain by making devices open and free for modification, with source code for drivers and the like publically available?
Definately. Encourages improvement of existing features, and development of new stuff beyond the manufacturers initial product scope, which can be integrated in future products.
Android OS its self is an example of this - the developer community is writing apps, logging bugs, and contributing code to the benefit of future releases of Android, which in turn benefits device manufacturers.
- jc
my two cents
1. Does the possibility of making OS level modifications affect your willingness to purchase an android product? i.e. do you check if it can be modified before buying? And how much of an impact does it make on your decision?
>> Personally, I feel like the ability to modify my phone at the core level is something I as a power user can use to tailor my phone's experience in the way I need to make it the most efficient device it can be. This is especially necessary as my phone is my primary connectivity device (I really only use my laptop for things the phone just really isn't capable of handling yet, such as video conversion)
2. Why do you think hardware manufacturers put in measures to prevent custom android OS builds to be installed? Put on the corporate hat and try to see their strategy.
I think this is less the decision of the manufacturers and more of the carriers themselves. This really is because each device has to be tailored to be sold to the average user, rather than power users (read: 85-90% of people who will read this reply) and as a result is designed with an experience in mind. To the suits, anyone who take a phone that is supposed to have a specific experience in mind, and changes that, it becomes a different phone, and anyone who looks at that phone will see that. This means, TMo/HTC can't sell a G2, because everything that my office mates will see when they look at my phone is my android customizations, not a G2. my office mate, who is shopping for a phone, can get an android phone anywhere... but they can only get a /G2/ from TMo/HTC. Similarly, if I like my G2 experience, when i get a new phone, i will be more inclined to continue enjoying that experience with a G3, rather than buying any on sale android phone and making it just like my last one. Hence the need to have a G2 experience on every G2 phone. Just my 2 cents. I am not a businessman, lawyer, or doctor.
3. Do you think manufacturers have anything to gain by making devices open and free for modification, with source code for drivers and the like publically available?
Yes, but nowhere near as much as they can get by keeping their cards close to their hand. see my answer to number 2.
Mods: please, this is a temporary post pending moderator elevated privelege to start forking my build via proper Android Development Section, everything I post is valid and true. No mock ups. Please, do not delete this thread. It is purely education and informational pre-release details to explain down to details most but not all details, as a developer i dont just release security structure or anything deemed sensitive.
A PROJECT UNIQUE AND NEVER BEFORE UNIFIED OR ATTEMPTED SUCCESSFULY. De-Androidinzation and bulding, slipstream and super-enhancing, raising Linux core from the dead to Linux-based and minimally VM until the day comes where I can project it out to substitute it with a replacement, only as good or better performance but not cross-coding as mobility has been so confined to since the start.
Introduction: to a very genetic-autonomous and not even a contender of its class to match it
Hello Fellow co-developers. I am anything but new around here, and I've grown frustrated and impatient trying to revive my XDA credentials I've had auto saved for years and yeasrs. Please, if you find interest in what you see following A PROJECT UNIQUE AND NEVER BEFORE UNIFIED OR ATTEMPTED SUCCESSFULY. this notification, message moderators or seek to at very least a head-start as I cannot even start a thread in the appA PROJECT UNIQUE AND NEVER BEFORE UNIFIED OR ATTEMPTED SUCCESSFULY. ropriate section, due to having to create an account. I've come to a sheer intolerable irritating boredom with Android, and the fact that well, Google and relative developers, and/or mainline toolchain dev's are well, diddling and we see an entire circus from Donut to Lollipop, then when they rollover on 6, and only then...and with nothing that is cheap to meet the proper standard for the hardware it takes to not back-grade your hardware and Android base version 1.6 (DOH'NUT). Yes, such non-sense as SDcard support when the damn things are ready to evolve into the next format. Don't get me, wrong, I'm glad it made the changelog, but still a mock-up and in a developers eyes so much more could have or should be incremented to a more attainable adjustment and even features. But, this post is not about Google, Android, and a lousy slipstreamed Apps2SD knockoff repurposed as adoped storage. I've always tested roms, tweaked, modified and until I found performance, stability, and can go 2 weeks without losing 40 hours of dedication getting it where she needs to be, I started porting per-say, drawing back the resource-loving java base they use in every phone regardless the base, or OS....but I have yet to see anyone shoot for the Linux-Cabal. A tip-the-scale fork of Android where rolling release and as come the updates increment, so shall the independance of too in the Android cocktail for my liking.
Let's just put it out there, I've been stabilizing and unifying a custom build (at this point for Moto ARM), and yes I know waht I am saying but to title it a ROM A PROJECT UNIQUE AND NEVER BEFORE UNIFIED OR ATTEMPTED SUCCESSFULY. would be mislabelling and a blow to what I think the OS deserves. More Linux backbone, compiled and debugged to hell and back step by step. I don't have any plan...YET to play god and cut out any serious concept such as framework, VM, but I have a goal, and a very vast plan drafted for the next quarter. I know any Linux Penguin-Dorks, and developers who know their cards and where I'd bet my bytes in any arena vs most other Os's.
History and Pre-requisuite (in order to enter and initialize a new fork officially, and establish a support system consisting of credible, daily-active and feedback producing beta-testers as well as the system and policies they will adhere to throughout initial first phase. This is not another AOSP or clone of source and hidden bugs you have to come to discover the hard way. I am offering only until another phase anyway, to primarily and MotoG3 ONLY, device dependent. push, shove and patch my tamper-resistant modules will enforce any interopibility. Remeber these are encrypted with MULTI-LAYER mutli-bit and a subset of different combination encryption algorithms and not APK, were weaning that dependence slowly but eventually here. Modules, system core hard up and real time individiual file encryption layering system. Safe from FBI and NSA and Israeli counter-parts. Included but not enforced are optional ability of IPC (Tor-lke) supreme sms, voice chat, and push to talk functionality, and among per file on top entre data drive encrypto....comms will be dual-end encrypted, obviously all of which can be enabled/disabled, configured and tweaked to ones preference.
Until I have proper authority and have enough resonsibility good-boy credits, there will be nothing. And I mean no beta program, no releases, no source code except I will move along to the next accepting Android community, which is my last thought and not at all in my interests. I am a developer 16 years, on a broad number of languages, on many arch's, from pascal, html, basic to visual basic, c, c++ C#, java, to ASM (yes Im old school, an I only dispense above and beyond what I would set as a mile stone.). All my projects in the past, creating the very first OpenGL wrapper, and utilizing a direct-injection loader that was always available in HL.exe. Primarily for Counter-Strike, as Valve global banned any cdkeys and steam accounts associated with at first any Alias nearing the format of my preferred handle. As they rolled out VAC for the first time, I watched every (neraly) system hook based all in one hacks go down as KIA-dead soldiers, while my opengl-wrapper emulated the driver, allowing my to get raw data to maipulate, block, pass-trough to the real-deal OGL.dll. My OpenGL in suspended development and without requirement to play tag with steam and losing 100 purchases of Counter-strike making a VAC-undetected, play for a day or 2 then POOF. Another good key gone up on Joolz, like his sorely lost system hook as it was spitting calls to the Windows API, the HL api, and just many easily noticed flags that his only circumventing was heading on VAC module manipulation, playing with memory in process, unloading and this damn module was live, as in every server change a slipstreamed update could be pushed and suddenly the VAC process, and all the memory offsets surgically and delicately rendered harmless. Too much working hard than the efficient smart ways I came up on. Why try and reinvent the wheel when you know the wheel is superior to date. Kid wasted his entire adolescents, and his family savings trying to serve up something that guarenteed, yes you will be the best hacker online, yes you will be detected by the end of the weekend, and the advantages well, there were none except a trial what hacking a system hook was like. As for my opengl, well at first for Valve, they did their thing wiping out the hundreds of hacks but only 1 or 2 who had stood any sort of equality to the efficacy, stability, virtual impossibilty to detect as I took a native function very seldom known and not documented, and even those who did, none had the brains to probe and go from a function with no instruction or info to the process and how to invoke and follow it through. I didn't reinvent the wheLet's just put it out there, el, but I gave it redbull-wings, titanium belts, nitrogen, and embedded withtin the system from which VAC also called home and well, all its code and dependent libraries, modules and api calls gatehered and had conferences and played golf. VAC could not for years, learn how to attack itself, and this was a fluke at first. Next I started to get out the matches, fire playin time....and i love to push buttons see where or how far i can get.
LONG story short, my very first C++ project, very atypically, was a win32 video card gfx driver, and wrapper and then put Joolz down deep, I was able to hybridize a opengl driver to bear code of no relation at all, not even close whatsoever, and without trying to break and enter a bank and crack a safe while risking setting off an alarm just to steal a 20$ bill. Get what I mean, this was at the age 0f 13. Lost my E-DEV virginity and any dev working in a windows environent, on win 98 knows that for a first project, you don't just self-teach yourself to code then start squatting and pushing out dynamic link libraries like they are ever coded to spec in MS eyes, and its just not a novice coder challenge. The following project, most of your in FTA satellite likely have heard of the latest of a technology innovated on my part and consult with few others on my FTAbins team. Also the author of the handbook aka the bible to the absolute and very well drafted, and at its time prior to increases vastly in bandwidth, it was predecessor and stepping stone for entry to IPTV. Yes Nagra2 was never cracked, it was actually a breach of trade secrets and confidential patented technology on the behalf of a disgruntled and underpaid dev who was a team lead on the the maiden of its release. For the unaware. Nagra2 is the security protecol and encryption system designed to scramble satellite television signals, as far as from my involvement only Dish Network as far as satellite, but also used and more so in europe, australia, uk and asia, on cable boxes (digital) usually those whom took input to your subscription via smart card.
But they double-time develloped and debted themselves over a exploited draft (N2) that really didnt secure a damn thing, only was a deterrant but always 24 hours behind every key roll. NKS is the patented tech, as nagra3 was exponetially much more secure and utilized 5 times the bit depth for each key, and rolled on predefined and update at randomly subscriber only pushed updates. Virtually impossible to crack, but with the aid of more advanced on completely different architechture and embedded firmware nontheless, i wasn't that intelligent i suddenly could learn 5 more instruction sets from x86. But with very little effort, and suceeding with no difficult to overcome blowbacks. Developing not an exploit, but a shadow, if you cant beat em. Join em. and that we did, nothing troubled DN ecm dev's more than trying to circumvent a system that utilized subscriber keys, and encrypted, offshored and live-streamed direct in millseconds behind a authentic event trigger, key roll or key changes and ecm's. ecm's become counter-effective when those you target are identical to your nonIKS subscribers
Thats just some history shared on 2, early on, but also serous and major accomplishments to certify and add credibility to what I claim to do and if doing this at 13 and 15 respectively, both drawing hundreds of thouseands to hundreds of millions from each of 2 entirely different classification corporations. But a thorn in both eyes while dancing circles around them, not even hitting puberty are 2 that only opened channels to knowledge, and expanding my IQ in area's and subjects I would never have thought prior,
I am not ready and urgently tryinHistory and Pre-requisuite g to put something out not prepared to dump unassessed to public, but in context I only initially had prospects of private membership availability and even that I have not authorized either. I am running an XT1540, but kicked alot of Moto framework, slipstreamed Sony framework minus the headache inducing svox, and bits and pieces of certain framework manipulation, but only in areas of absolute necessity.
Minus the not-well supported termux app and api, my build is just as extensive, with a integrated system bin directory containing apt, dpkg, a indirect but priveleged api bridge to all things android and its framework. Wifi-N enabled, 2.4ghz and 5ghz on one that only natively ever offered 2.4 G. Also, some off the books properties, I've been able to extend and further dominate the radio and modem accessibility, more specifically on UMTS/AWS bandf here in Canada on WIND. Now alot is new but I've yet to encounter very many warnings let alone any real conflicts or stability or performance setbacks. CPU is unlocked, can be volted and clocked as well as GPU, and although schedulers are there, much needs my expertise and some fine tuning before I'd even open my mind to considering it in control of fatality-potential software on another persons device.
Now, with apt and a 3 more repos than termux can match. Many would give their left nut just to have even 1/4 of the full capability (and i mean capability of all thats fully stable and operational to perfection as of right now). I had to nearly wrestle my device from a buddy of mines hands, and very promptly vacate his residence as he was dying to just get a particular build of metasploit not freely available to public, and on that part metasploit is integrated discreetly but as building block and one of many that basis the security infrastructure I am still actively forking. Stringray-safe, no prying eyes or cloning cell towers to snoop through anything private.
Currently my personal attention has me fired up towards recompiling Pale Moon custom build, and likely a entirely new browser with FF initial base but this fork of Palemoon is gecko oriented and Android API elevated privelege, it has features that even addons of chrome have yet to scratch. Capable out of the box as a IPC/Tor private browser or entire device firewalled, Tor/IPC and crypto down to the teeth. I have my own fork of recent builds of Adobe flash module, and stagefright is a secured as well. All exploitable lose ends are presently beyond par, as Android hasnt even come to that extent yet.
Anyways, I wrote this just thinking of some of my favourite features. I'll tally a list and re-post this alll in a better edited and spell-checked draft. Yes, i will post screenshots, but ONLY on request. If i have to screenshot otherwise we would all be loading alot of png files needlessly.
Xposed & MOD EDIT: warez reference removed & 3C Pro potential unified hybrid of sorts in consideration too. Pending confirmation. Also, I've been fortunate to be in possession of a Perfect-ADB i nicknamed it as it is a custom build with everything it should have plus some, and finally for right now....TWRP just makes me angry how we have 2 dozen random versions available but each has its own catch, the newer the worse it is it seems. this is unacceptable. too many builds, too many cooks in the kitchen, and off the primary source obviously. like a cocktail of suicide soda. just add 10 flavours, flash it, if it boots slap latest and DISTRIBUTE! unacceptable, this is a development resource credible well established website and name, sigh, but one thing at a time.
i will be remaining on my lonesome adding, pulling and testing my flavours and shiny sparkles with neon colors until the day i can start my devdb. and the day i do that i will immediately open up to members. with consideration of development and vetted testers prior to extensive durability and relibility testing..
Til then, mkocmut1986 @ gmail.com should you require contact.
or PM me. I got my hands full, and im but one dev as you can tell and constantly 100 new innovations to add.
Can you tell this story in short in noob language Not everyone is a developer here.
Sorry @mkocmut That was so long I skipped it... How about a tl;dr version?
@mkocmut: Well I read all the parts, all the history but one question: what was the purpose of writing all this?? BTW, great writing, enjoyed it. And yeah, I would appreciate a few screenshots if you can bother uploading some png files here, thanks.[emoji1] .
Broadcasted from Zeta Reticuli
Says: "LONG story short..."
Goes on to write 11 more paragraphs...
You're a passionate fella, I'll give you that much. Heheh, strangely enough, your post kinda made my day. (-:
A wouldn't mind u posting a link to ur beta port??
mkocmut said:
Introduction: to a very genetic-autonomous and not even a contender of its class to match it
Hello Fellow co-developers. I am anything but new around here, and I've grown frustrated and impatient trying to revive my XDA credentials I've had auto saved for years and yeasrs.
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Would be interesting if you at least tell us what's your old username.
mkocmut said:
Modules, system core hard up and real time individiual file encryption layering system. Safe from FBI and NSA and Israeli counter-parts.
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Click to collapse
You totally forgot about the KGB...
THREAD CLEANED - Please don't post references to warez/software that violates XDA Rules
Wow! The room is spinning after reading all of that! It's left me with a feeling of huh? But either way I am almost certain that you are very passionate in all the above and I'm cool with that. So preach on brotha!
Good luck man. @mods : if someone quotes the whole OP, burn him!
sounds cool to unlock the cpu + gpu hope all your plans will be made possible
HelpMeruth said:
sounds cool to unlock the cpu + gpu hope all your plans will be made possible
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How u getting on dev?
Any updates?
Sent from my SM-G900V using XDA Labs
Newyork! said:
Would be interesting if you at least tell us what's your old username.
You totally forgot about the KGB...
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Late reply, but the KGB has been gone since the last millennium
---------- Post added at 01:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:57 PM ----------
mkocmut said:
Modules, system core hard up and real time individiual file encryption layering system. Safe from FBI and NSA and Israeli counter-parts.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Worried about Israeli intelligence? If you're not involved in terrorism, you'll be fine, and if you are, then I'd want the Mossad to have your info.
Sounds more like drunken late night ramble than anything else. Especially since there hasn't been a peep out of him since.
Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk
riggerman0421 said:
Sounds more like drunken late night ramble than anything else. Especially since there hasn't been a peep out of him since.
Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk
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We can still hope that this will ever be released right?
Sure, why not? Keep the dream alive.
Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk
Hey, Whats up? :laugh:
I am currently looking for an alternative OS or ROM on a phone. My big challenges are I have a great grand fathered in at&t data plan. I don't want to loose and There is no good phone that is both on their list and seems to give me the option to try different ROMS or OS's if one dose not fit my needs.
I truly believe if there is a place that linux could fit best it is on my private device. I don't mind windows for my Daily desktop but in the past few months I have watched the location data icon flash on the top of my phone despite having turned location data off. It would be nothing for google to truly allow us to make this choice on our own. An it always felt wrong to get a google phone hack it and then side load a ROM like copper or even lineage.
I haven't looked into Paranoid Android user yet. The real thing I keep bumping my head against is compatibility with AT&T so I guess I am here to ask the following questions.
If I do a custom OS like Post Market OS, Sailfish, even Ubuntu touch. Will some screw with my AT&T plan while others don't. Its not like I am going to tell them I switching the OS but I imagine there is something in there that allows them to throttle remotely and prevents tethering etc? perhaps one of the choices spoofs that. What is the best ROM/OS for this? Crapy call by the courts on that one BTW when that decision was handed down, and kudos to the absolute BOSS who went after AT&T. Funny thing is I am not even that big of a hot spot user. I have no problem with cafe wifi. It's not like I am doing banking there and I air gap that Laptop from my home wifi. The rare occasion that I have needed it was a recent business trip and even that wasn't allot of data. But I digress.
Second question I want to support the linux community that are building new OS's for existing devices as I think that is really the week point for adoption at this time. I have been thinking about it and I think the best way to do it would be to hire a new developer to give a hand to an existing project for a few weeks. Fresh eyes and all that. Any recommendations on how to select one?
It's not that there is anything wrong with ROM's but they all use AOSP and allot live hardware designed for there retail version android meaning they get at least a licensing fee for each one. I am big believer in actual capitalism in divers markets with real consumer choice. What we have today is not it and supporting the behemoths in any way isn't really the key to success. I could take you down the rabbit hole of how the problem is the government and things like the CIA investment corporation AKA In-Q-Tell. Picking winners and loser's and taking free market's to the wood shed and shooting it in the head. However I think that is enough and it gives my disposition. So, you might Have a good Idea on how to guide me.
Thanks for any help.
WoW no response at all. Did I post this in the wrong place maybe it should be someplace else.
As per the mod bump i guess