Database Users

Archos Tablets vs Galaxy Tab

I'm sure the Galaxy Tab will be slightly more powerful... But I can't believe by much.
The Archos Tablets are coming out late September-mid October.
There will be many different sizes... 10.1", 7", 4.3"... etc.
I see people saying the Galaxy tab will cost more than 600$. That's absurd.
All of Archos's tablets are <$300
I own a Vibrant, and believe me, I love it. But I personally will be getting an Archos 10.1 . $299 isn't asking for much.
What do you think.
http://www.archos.com/products/ta/index.html?country=us&lang=en
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Of course I am expecting some sort of hack to run the Market on the Archos... that's honestly the only down side but not necesarily a deal breaker.

I would be really hesistant to get an Archos tablet - they've been putting these out for a little while now, but their track record has not been great. Maybe this will change with their new designs - I hadn't heard or read up on the Archos 70 - but they just released the Archos Home 7 a few months ago, and it was not particularly well received.
EDIT: The Archos spec sheet says they are using an ARM A8 based processor, so it could be on par with the A8-based Hummingbird in terms of CPU power - no mention of what GPU is being used though. The GPU on the Hummingbird is an absolute (mobile) beast.

I honestly was about to buy a Z-180 til i heard of the Archos.
And yes... the GPU on the Galaxy S's are supreme...
10.1" Galaxy Tab = king. 7" is too small for me for a tablet. Tablet = halfway between smart phone and netbook. 7" tablet = halfway between smartphone and tablet. Lol

Spec wise, id say the Gtab has a great edge just because of its on board gpu. What you need to think about is how much of a difference that makes to you.
If you just want normal stuff, then no big deal. If you want to play 3d games or play true high def content then the Tab looks way better. If not then well.... The opposite.
Personally I think the archos is just for watching stuff, and the Tab is more of a daily driver.
I wouldn't think about pricing just yet, because until we get numbers from samsung, everything is bull****. Just cast it from your mind.
For me, the Tab is the right size. The appeal is that it'll fit in a coat pocket, or you can just toss out into a bag. 10 inches is huge (anyone who just smirked: shame on you!) and although the nice big screen is ok at home, to me its just impractical in public, particularly since you have to grasp it, not just let it rest in your hand.
Finally, does the archos have a phone in it? That would make.a difference to me to be honest.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App

Yeah it's all down to personal preference about 7" or 10"... A tablet would be more of an 'at-home' thing for me... My phone is for the go aha.
I'm sure the Archos would be able to handle some 3d games though. We'll see...
They both hop on the 1GHz. I don't know much about Archos GPU though.

andershizzle said:
Yeah it's all down to personal preference about 7" or 10"... A tablet would be more of an 'at-home' thing for me... My phone is for the go aha.
I'm sure the Archos would be able to handle some 3d games though. We'll see...
They both hop on the 1GHz. I don't know much about Archos GPU though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh yeah, the archos should handle the games and stuff as well as an equivalently specced phone, its certainly no slouch. Just the tab is 'better'.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App

I'm in the same dilemma right now too...not sure whether to go with the archos 7 inch or 10 inch....or whether to buy the galaxy tab....and a major deciding factor will be the pricing of the tab once its announced...

Yes if the Tab is any more than 400 I probably will go with the Archos... Can't beat $299

The only thing about the GPU in the Hummingbird is that there is nothing to do (yet) with all that power. It's in a league of it's own when it comes to graphics horsepower, and until we see more Android devices take up the PowerVR SGX540 GPU, I doubt we'll see anything take advantage of that power.
Hell, unless/until we start playing games at 720p on TV/Monitors via HDMI, it's not entirely clear we need that kind of graphics processing either. Take a look at the "Epic Citadel" tech demo of the Unreal 3 engine running on the iPhone 4 (which uses the less powerful PowerVR 535 I think) to see what can be accomplished with a GPU with 1/3 the power of the Hummingbird.

Comparing things like that cross platform is fairly useless.
There ate several things that can run on my iphone's old hardware and i know if it were in Android with the same hardware it would run like a dog. Look at Symbian. Very.few Symbian phones use "modern" hardware, but Symbian has no problem with lag.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App

mesasone said:
The only thing about the GPU in the Hummingbird is that there is nothing to do (yet) with all that power. It's in a league of it's own when it comes to graphics horsepower, and until we see more Android devices take up the PowerVR SGX540 GPU, I doubt we'll see anything take advantage of that power.
Hell, unless/until we start playing games at 720p on TV/Monitors via HDMI, it's not entirely clear we need that kind of graphics processing either. Take a look at the "Epic Citadel" tech demo of the Unreal 3 engine running on the iPhone 4 (which uses the less powerful PowerVR 535 I think) to see what can be accomplished with a GPU with 1/3 the power of the Hummingbird.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you put it like that, then I'd say that the added GPU power adds a degree of future proofing. I suspect that what with the slew of droid based tablets arriving, people will start developing things that take advantage of the screen size. Particularly since tablets have a lot more battery so you can game for a lot longer, and thus might be interested in prettier visual.
Food for thought anyway.
The equivalent 7" archos is a great looking device tho. Although, can someone fill me in on a few things (i know nothing of the devices). Firstly, the spec just says the GPU is '3d OpenGL' but doesn't say the actual chip set. Would like to know what it is. Secondly, it says up to 250gigs, and I assumed that was a choice of internal flash-drives, but the spec sheet has 8gig flash and 250gig HD. Does that mean you connect a HD with USB or a changeable 2.5" drive or something ?
Certainly would help me understand

As long as it has decent quality and runs latest stock android.
Sent from galaxy s. JG4 + oneclick lag fix version 2.3

BigJayDogg3 said:
Comparing things like that cross platform is fairly useless.
There ate several things that can run on my iphone's old hardware and i know if it were in Android with the same hardware it would run like a dog. Look at Symbian. Very.few Symbian phones use "modern" hardware, but Symbian has no problem with lag.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Uh, like what specifically?

Heavy gunner.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App

LostAlone said:
If you put it like that, then I'd say that the added GPU power adds a degree of future proofing. I suspect that what with the slew of droid based tablets arriving, people will start developing things that take advantage of the screen size. Particularly since tablets have a lot more battery so you can game for a lot longer, and thus might be interested in prettier visual.
Food for thought anyway.
The equivalent 7" archos is a great looking device tho. Although, can someone fill me in on a few things (i know nothing of the devices). Firstly, the spec just says the GPU is '3d OpenGL' but doesn't say the actual chip set. Would like to know what it is. Secondly, it says up to 250gigs, and I assumed that was a choice of internal flash-drives, but the spec sheet has 8gig flash and 250gig HD. Does that mean you connect a HD with USB or a changeable 2.5" drive or something ?
Certainly would help me understand
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's an 8GB Flash Memory 7" tablet, expandable with Micro SD, and then there's a 7" tablet with an actual internal 250GB Hard Drive.
The 10" has a 8GB internal (micro SD expandable) for 299$ and 16GB internal (micro SD expandable) for 349$

Ah ok I get ya.
I assumed that it was one device with aftermarket add ons *facepalm* the 250gig version sounds pretty GOOD in theory at least
WARNING - LONG POST AHEAD
Anyways, I think what will make the real difference to the choice will be how much you want mobile data. There seems to be two schools of thought on how to use a tablet device here:
a) Those who would be wanting a tablet to augment their current device.
b) Those who see a small form factor tablet as a total alternative.
For those in camp A, the archos has to be a better device. Not only because of cost, but the extra capacity is definitely a head turner.
For those in camp B, the Tabs 3g radio and actual phone capabilities wins the game hands down.
Personally I am much more of a B. I would certainly be happy with an archos. However, since Im not the kind of person who would use it at home, it'd only do service as a media device on long trips. And it'd make me happy in that capacity.
However, since the Tab offers that same performance (less capacity, but I can't see why I would ever need to load up 250gigs of anything) and extras, I just see myself using it more. In my head I can see me using it to hold my notes or whatever I'm working from, and then I can just kick over to a web browser to find what I need or take calls or whatever, all in one device. Of course, I can still use my phone as a phone and my Tab the same as the archos, but I have the choice.
I think that the times I am sitting on a station waiting for a train or whatever, I would kick myself for not having the data use, and anytime where I have to scrabble through my pockets for my phone.
Am still waiting on pricing of course. If the Tab is ridiculously priced (I maintain that this isn't likely to happen) then I may well say screw it and get an archos or indeed another tablet, because much as I love the tab, I'm only willing to pay so much for what I see as the bonuses of using one. If the Tab is competitively priced against the archos, I can't see why anyone would buy the archos (unless they are comitted to carrying a silly amount of media), because even if you never use the added 3g functionality, you know its there. I figure a lot of people will be waiting on the pricing, because if the Tab is say 50-100 bucks more than the archos, its a no brainer. 100-150 more, and its a personal preference. Any more than that and its to much.
The TLDR version:
With my lifestyle, the phoneness of the Tab makes it a real winner. To others, perhaps not, but then again we all have to make our own choices as to what device/s fits for us
MOD EDIT IN BOLD.

LostAlone said:
Ah ok I get ya.
BJD3's abbv. version.
I'd like a tablet that can replace my phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is exactly the same boat im in. Id have to get one off contract since i just bought a captivate and plan on keeping it.
My thing is i just refuse to pay for two data plans, especially when i have AT&Ts grandfathered unlimited plan. And without 3G i can't justify the purchase of a tablet to myself.
So for me to even consider a tablet, it would HAVE to include a telephone. This is one reason i was so excited about the Streak, nut Dell kept dragging their feet bringing it to the US.
At this point, the Tab hits all my check marks, it just has to be priced somewhere south of 550 USD.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App

I currently own and use an Archos 5IT 5" android tablet.
Hardware wise, it outperforms the T-mobile Galaxy S that my roommate uses, with a processor that is clocked at 600mhz. I do not remember the chipset information off the top of my head, but it is a TI chip that has some solid power on the graphics side, and OpenGL support is available now with the latest firmware updates.
The biggest issue with Archos 5IT is that while updates have been constant for the device, there is no plans to put Android 2.0+ on the device, it is currently running 1.6 and will continue to do so until a 3rd party is able to port over something newer.
The new Archos tablets will not have any "phone parts" included in them, that is part of the reason for the lower price.
It will also include their standard Archos Media Center addin, which is a rather nice full function media application that runs overtop Android on the 5IT. I use their built in media center application over any Android based ones due to its simple UI and built in access to network shares, and all in all its pretty solid.
Otherwise, I have had nothing but good things to say about the device, in spite of its few quirks, most of which are being addressed with the newest models.

I plan on using my Vibrant's "MobileAP" for 3g Data on Archos if ever needed. Why pay for two plans? Heh. So the phone capabilities don't mean much for me. Even then it'd be an at home kind of system.

Ill admit the Archos is a good tablet, but two things keep me from getting it.
It lacks a multitouch screen, and it doesn't have a 3G connection.
While I'd prefer a capacitive screen, but if the screen is like the one in my Fuze, i can deal with that, and as I've said, i can't justify a tablet if any size if it diesnt have a SIM card slot.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App

So unfair.

This is just so unfair.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAbsmHMAhrQ&feature=player_embedded

Uhhhmm... Why?

what is so unfair?
it works and does the same as the phone version, just bigger

Maybe he meant unfair because we cant get a decent FW for our phones because Samsung is focusing on the tablet.
It is really a strange feeling. Besides the size difference, I caught myself with envy that my phone could do the same thing, just being smaller.
But in fact it can't, because we never get the software.
Paulo

so what.. remember it has drawbacks too..
1. propriatary adapter instead of true hd socket.
2. no removeable replaceable battery..i like having spare batteries ready.
3. strange resolutin 1024x600
4. no super oled screen. .supposedly bad viewing angle support.
5. expensive.. will see price when carriers pick it up

there's a bigger chance i'll pick up one of these
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.44673
instead of the Tab, just because of price/size matters
it might not be as good as the Tab, and not even close to our phone, but it's great for size and compatibility to runt he same apps we run on our phones at a larger screen
I think of it as a really good backup of my stuff on the SGS phone, in case crap happens and i need to restore all the info back quickly
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Operating System: Google Android 2.1
Processor: Telechips TCC8902
CPU Frequency: 720MHz ARM11
Ram: 256M DDR2 RAM
Flash: 2GB
External memory: Support micro SD/TF card up to 32GB
Display: 7" TFT LCD with resistance screen touch
Resolution: WVGA 800*480-pixel resolution
Touch Control: Full size touch operation, sliding menu, functional icon dragging
Orientation Sensors: With accelerometer, automatic steering display screen
Network: IEEE802.11b/g Wi-Fi network connection
Camera: Built-in 300K Pixels camera
Microphone: Built-in
Speaker: Built-in 1 speaker
Slots: 1 * TF card (support up to 32G)
1 * 3.5mm earphone
1 * Mini USB
1 * HDMI Out (support 1080P HDMI TV out)
1 * Power supply
Support Video Formats: MPEG1/MPEG2/WMV9/MPEG4-SP/ASF/DIVX/H.263/H.264/RMVB/MOV/MKV/TS/FLV
Support Audio Formats: WMA/MP3/WAV/OOG/AAC/EAAC
Support Picture Formats: JPG/GIF/BMP/PNG
Language: Support for display of multiple languages and characters simultaneously
Battery: Built-in 3000mAh Lithium battery (manufacturer rated)
Input/Output Adapter: Input: 100-240V (EU plug)
Accessories: 1 * AC power adapter
1 * Stylus
1 * USB host cable
1 * English user manual
Manufacturer's Warranty: - 12 Months excluding physical damages (see specifications for terms and details)
Specifications
Dimensions: 7.17 in x 4.53 in x 0.59 in (18.2 cm x 11.5 cm x 1.5 cm)
Weight: 12.03 oz (341 g)

ppeccin said:
Maybe he meant unfair because we cant get a decent FW for our phones because Samsung is focusing on the tablet.
It is really a strange feeling. Besides the size difference, I caught myself with envy that my phone could do the same thing, just being smaller.
But in fact it can't, because we never get the software.
Paulo
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Alot of companies do this type of tatic of focuing all materials and personale on a new product development. i dont believe samsung does this and tries to allocate its resources equally....

These pure tablet PC's are the most overrated technology ever anyway..
Hybrids such as the Lenovo Ideapad U1 make more sense, because touchscreens don't provide good enough feedback for typing. I understand that pure touchscreen-exclusive tablets seem cool, but they are actually a step back in productivity, and ergonomics. And only a company which makes a puck mouse seem cool (and in reality, focuses on irrelevant design issues rather than real ones) could bring these into fashion..
Don't waste money on them, until they can at least modify the shape of the touch screen panel to provide proper tactile feedback (ie, surface changes or lumps).
Instead, just get a netbook or a convertible tablet...

the problem with Laptops/Tablets is the weight and poor battery life compared to the tablets
i have a laptop, and it sits at home 90% of the time because of that
instead my SGS has almost replace my laptop entirely, just missing a mouse and keyboard, then i'll be set
looking forward to Froyo, which already confirmed support for BT mouse+keyboards, yay!

I'm sorry, Allgamer, but I have to ask, why are you pushing the SGS so hard?
1) 2 weeks ago, you were claiming that you were a power user, who had to swap your mobile phone batteries once a day, you have a BT headset, which you probably need to charge once a day, and now, a bluetooth keyboard you'll need to charge every 2 or 3 days too? You have a problem with Hybrid battery life (of 5 to 8 hours), but no problems shutting down your mobile to swap batteries constantly?
2) We both know the SGS is awkward to hold (and hurts your wrist after a while), and you can't really lay it down on the table.
3) You complain about the weight, but, the U1 tablet weighs 700gm and the entire hybrid weighs 1.7kg. My CCNA book weighs 1.6 KG as reference. You are in your 20's I thought, and you are already having trouble carrying a book?
4) Power users need productivity, and the SGS is TOTALLY inefficient. One problem is screen size, which makes it difficult to perform many tasks efficiently.
Sorry, but your comments are certainly starting to raise red-flags. By the sounds of things, you either aren't being honest to yourself, are exaggerating your use as a power user, or are trying to make things difficult for yourself.
Tablets don't entirely make sense, but they do as convertible hybrids.. Smartphones make sense for some things, but I have serious trouble believing that "power users" are best suited to using a mobile.

Too big for my pocket. And if I can take that with me, I also can take my netbook.
It's not much bigger...
For gaming+TV it would rock. There is no TV-tuner built in?
Also I need possibilities to run openoffice on it, so I can use it for presentations...

rdenis said:
Finally someone called out this moron for his load of BS he keeps spewing - I'm guessing he's about 14 and gets beat up a lot..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wouldn't say that..
But it's the same effect I saw when selling Apple equipment. People become so involved with their devices, that they begin to take an unrealistic look at how good they REALLY are. Apple Mac Pro's are the perfect example.
* In general, the video cards being sold with the Mac Pro's are generations behind those available on PC's. But people love them.
* Some people also LOVED the Apple might mouse, despite the right button being near-impossible to click successfully, because they didn't realise the competition allowed scrolling left and right too.
* Over time, all OSX users seemed to have convinced themselves that Windows crashed every day (even if iPhoto was crashing right in front of them).
*It's the same effect which has convinced Linux users that UAC is more intrusive than PolicyKit (it's actually the opposite).
Either way, the tablet seems targeted at the gimmicky crowd. Their main benefit is casual browsing, and watching movies. But lets face it, touchscreens are still HORRIBLE for typing, and most of us would like to be able to chat to someone whilst watching a movie.
But that's just my thoughts.. Time will tell, but you can't fix the ergonomics issues with tablets, until they are at least bendable, the pixels on the screen can displace themselves forward or backwards (or simply change smooth to rough) or have a perfectly polished neural interface (but neural interfaces are still under heavy development)

Speaking of which... what happened to the flexible display I read about a prototype a year or two ago?
Sent from my GT-I9000M using XDA App

1- i still do and i always carry a spare battery with me when i go out, that's how often i use the SGS phone, and i keep an extra spare in the car, for when the one i have runs out, and i need another spare to keep with me.
the BT headset doesn't get charge every day, battery life is quite good, only gets charge once every week or two depending on usage, i use the phone for online activities not for yapping
BT keyboard is just a convenient for typing faster, they are foldable, it shrinks down to a pda size, still fits in a pocket, they existed since the Palm times, what's what made the BT keyboard popular, battery life depend on how much you type on it. you won't be charging a BT keyboard as often as you would charge a BT headset.
2- no idea how you are holding it, but it works just the same, for typing with the on screen keyboard it's pretty natural, i even do it one handed when i'm busy with a drink on the other hand, it's not as quick as when you type with both thumbs, but it's doable for SMS and IM, definitely you wont want to type a long email with a single thumb
holding the phone for voice call will just be natural as well, like using any other phone, the only thing that bugs me is the proximity sensor, as it takes a split second to go back to the dialing pad screen, before you can switch to another application to look up for information meanwhile chatting with the customer
3- yes because i don't like to travel with bags, it has nothing to do with lifting weight it's just ruins the look of your shirt, it shifts the shirt to a side with the weight and it doesn't look good, you don't want to hang out with a lady or partying with buddies carrying a laptop/ipad/tablet around is just trouble (it can get beer in it, it can get stolen if you leave it on the side of the restaurant/bar/anyplace, you might forget it if the meeting is going so well and having too much fun, ladies will look at you like a geek, some nicer restaurant will throw you a bad eye for pulling out a laptop on the table, you go to a cinema with a laptop and pull it out they'll automatically think you are going to capture the movie, been there done that, not fun, it was totally stupid if you ask me, since when you can get a decent recording out of a laptop webcam? LOL )
all of that aside, when you pull out an iphone or the SGS, no one will complain to you, instead people would say WOW! can i see that, can i do this, can i play that, can i... you get the idea, it's totally 2 side of the spectrum
That's what Apple is selling, and that's what people like, non geeky devices that works, and Samsung is just riding the same wave.
Personally i don't care, i just want a device that is better than Windows crapile, and the combination of Samsung hardware + Android OS have done that for me.
If PalmOS was still around on a phone similar to SGS i'd have gone the PalmOS way instead, as the OS is much more polished, still buggy, but there are tons of Apps for it... too bad the company went under bought by HP, and trashed to the pages of history.
4- for me productivity means being able to get online and log on to servers anywhere i'm in, for documents we got ThinkFreeOffice which is sufficient for me, and i was able to convert my old Palm Doc To Go office to the Android version of Doc To Go. with the SGS i can hookup to all my different companies accounts (15+), and they will all each keep their own separate contact list, in Wincrap mobile it would have been a major mess, you can't have both personal and work accounts together, now that's efficiency for me.
same goes with IM, i can be online with all my email accounts and people can contact me all over, it's so easy, in Wincrap i had to use those jabber IMs to do the same and it was always disconnecting because it goes through jabber and it's not stable enough to make IM conversation a good experience as people always said i was offline when i was not.
Since i switched to SGS using the stock push email & IM, i've not had any problem, all my customers are happy, and when customers are happy, i'm happy.
Typing is decent with SGS, it can be better with a BT keyboard, too bad i can't use it yet until Froyo is out.
Browsing speed is amazing, i can look up stuff instantly, this is a great topic when having a coffe with friends and customers, i'm a forgetful person i depend on a reliable PDA for my work, so it's amazing for people when they see i can jump back and forth between apps in the phone to look up about the stuff i forget during our conversations and then continue with the meeting.
It is just so natural this phone, compared to all previous ones. the best thing is, it's small, it can go anywhere, even under water if you put it on one of those waterproof bags for PDAs available on DX
If being able to do everything you need to do at anywhere and at anytime is not efficient for you, then i don't know what is, but for me that is exactly the type of device i need to do my work, and hobby, and entertainment, and picture, and recording, and specially the GPS as i use it every day while i drive, my Speedo in the car is broken.
was trying to install some custom mods to the car and screwed up the speedo needle fuel tank needle is dead as well, good think it lights up when it runs low in gas.
All in all you don't need to believe me, but that is truly how magnificent this phone works for people that knows how to use it.
I give free lesson and consulting on how to use it and get the most out of it and people love it, as usual I'll extend my hand for anyone that needs help with the phone in the GTA area, just PM me to book for an appointment.
i carry the XDA App anyways, i use it all the time to check my PMs and forum topics when i'm idle
andrewluecke said:
I'm sorry, Allgamer, but I have to ask, why are you pushing the SGS so hard?
1) 2 weeks ago, you were claiming that you were a power user, who had to swap your mobile phone batteries once a day, you have a BT headset, which you probably need to charge once a day, and now, a bluetooth keyboard you'll need to charge every 2 or 3 days too? You have a problem with Hybrid battery life (of 5 to 8 hours), but no problems shutting down your mobile to swap batteries constantly?
2) We both know the SGS is awkward to hold (and hurts your wrist after a while), and you can't really lay it down on the table.
3) You complain about the weight, but, the U1 tablet weighs 700gm and the entire hybrid weighs 1.7kg. My CCNA book weighs 1.6 KG as reference. You are in your 20's I thought, and you are already having trouble carrying a book?
4) Power users need productivity, and the SGS is TOTALLY inefficient. One problem is screen size, which makes it difficult to perform many tasks efficiently.
Sorry, but your comments are certainly starting to raise red-flags. By the sounds of things, you either aren't being honest to yourself, are exaggerating your use as a power user, or are trying to make things difficult for yourself.
Tablets don't entirely make sense, but they do as convertible hybrids.. Smartphones make sense for some things, but I have serious trouble believing that "power users" are best suited to using a mobile.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

i have spare batteries too.. one i leave at work in case i forget.. i also use the external wall chargers.. the onese that go from purple to blue when charged... i have a couple of the g9 batteries i got from the samsung website and find they work even better than the g7 batteries..

I'll probably stick to my SGS and HP Elitebook 2730 tablet for when I need a larger display. With the extra battery slice on the latter I can easily rival the IPad's battery life yet do a heck of a lot more. It is heavier but I don't mind.
Given that Google says Froyo isn't designed for tablet use I'll probably hold off on the Tab either way though.
____________
Any typos or other oddities in this post are brought to you by the letters G & T, the number 9000, and Swype.

funkeh said:
I've been browsing this forum for a little while now and found AllGamers threads very helpful indeed and it hasn't cost me a penny.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that's usually a major thing i keep in mind, like to stick with FREE stuff, because i'm poor... well not exactly true, i just spend money like there's no tomorrow, buying whatever i feel like on the spot if it tickles my fancy.
so FREE helps a lot, LOL
99% of the apps i suggest from android market are free, as i try to save were i can, so that i can spend it else when when i go out drinking

Any further posts in this thread, by any member, that are not directly related to the thread topic (i.e. the relative merits of the Galaxy Tab vs. the regular SGS variants) will met with immediate disciplinary action.

Android looks relatively Vanilla on the Tab. Can someone use the tab firmware to cook a similar ROM for the Galaxy S?

Intratech said:
Android looks relatively Vanilla on the Tab. Can someone use the tab firmware to cook a similar ROM for the Galaxy S?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm pretty sure once we (some one from XDA) can get their hands on a working unit, that might actually be possible
as the Tab shares so much in common with the SGS, except for the screen size
we might need to edit the Aspect Ratio / resolution on the Tabs ROM and we might be able to use on our phones
i like the Gmail app version running on the Tab, you can split the screen, we can't do it yet with our current version when in landscape mode
Outlook lovers will love that feature

Underwhelmed by the Xoom (a fair assessment imo)

Let me start off by saying that I am no 'company fanboy' of any sorts, but rather a 'gadget fanboy' who tries to assess devices as objectively as possible.
I am current owner of a rooted Droid X (running gingerbread theme, undervolted, overclocked, with sysctl enabled, ~ approx. 2 days batt life on extended)
No, I am not teed about the current lack of flash, sd card support. thats not my gripe.
* My main gripe is a hardware limitation. I just find it heavy to use after prolonged use (after 20 min of continuous usage).
* I find the screen to be subpar compared to its main competitor, the iPad, which uses a IPS display resulting in a higher contrast ratio, deeper blacks, wider viewing angles, and better color reproduction
Xoom, Viewsonic G-tablet, iPad1
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* I find holding the xoom to be an uncomfortable affair compared to the iPad1. Now, I am an iPad1 user as well. I'm starting to realize why iPad has a thicker bezel. It makes it easier on the user to hold and use.
* Native google apps are buggy. I wasn't able to play a lot of YouTube videos, and the Google Maps application with vector support was surprisingly choppy. Everyone zoom into San Francisco until the buildings show. Tilt it so you can see a lot of the buildings. Start scrolling. Its pretty choppy. For some this is barely an issue, to me, it irks me.
To those that are on the fence for a tablet, and are a current Android smartphone user, I would highly recommend the iPad2 as it is lighter, thinner, and cheaper than its main competitor, the Xoom. Not to mention the 100k+ native iPad application support. And whats wrong with diversifying your OS portfolio? If you think about it, who woulda thought that an Apple product would be cheaper than its main competitor?
I don't mean to knock on the Xoom, but its just not ready yet, and I'm extremely worried that tablet developer support on android will not be as successful as the iPad due to android tablet pricing ($800, no wifi confirmation yet, $539 pricing is still a rumor).
Personally, I'm on the fence with this device. All the Xoom needs is time, so that the bugs can be closed and application support increases. Not to mention the root community on the tablet will explode hopefully in the near future. To be honest, I would LOVE to have an undervolted, overclocked android tablet that can give me almost twice the batt life. I'm still deciding whether to return this and get the iPad2.
However, I do find the xoom's 1280 x 800 16:9 form factor to be superior than the iPad when it comes to web browsing. The web browsing experience on the xoom is phenomenal.

Insanely unnecessary thread. Threads like this have saturated this website. extremely redundant. come on

Opinions
Assholes

dudeimgeorge said:
Insanely unnecessary thread. Threads like this have saturated this website. extremely redundant. come on
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
its an opinion. so had i made a thread only praising the xoom would that be unnecessary as well?
you can easily not respond to it. the post was created in order to garner discussion. thats all.

iPad doesn't have 100k+ native apps, it has 65k... I think your preference on the thicker bezel is also just that, preference. I prefer the Xoom's smaller bezel. Viewing angles on the Xoom are an issue for you? I'm looking at might from an off-angle right this moment and can still read the screen fine. Also, what are you using to judge the color representation? Any kind of professional tools, or is this just your eyes, which are far from what I'd call accurate?

aohus said:
its an opinion. so had i made a thread only praising the xoom would that be unnecessary as well?
you can easily not respond to it. the post was created in order to garner discussion. thats all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, it would be unnecessary. People who like the Xoom like it, people who don't, don't. There's plenty of reviews out there on professional sites that people can go to.

I was with you for a minute, until your advertisement for the iPad 2.
The Honeycomb SDK has been out for LITERALLY LESS THAN 2 WEEKS. Developers couldn't really develop until they got their own hardware as the emulator sucks. There is one honeycomb device, do you think there will never be any others? I find the app argument really weak. Give it a couple of months and there will be several Honeycomb devices, probably a 3.0.1 or 3.1 android update.
Maybe you can live with the limitations of iOS, but I cannot. Those poor notifications send me into a rage.

Your assessment is just opinions how you feel about the device. When people are looking for an actual review they are going to read your crap and get a bad impression. The ipad cant really be classified as a tablet since there is no real difference between it and an iphone besides size. The only thing apple has is apps and a tablet should be about more than just apps. Android offers a different experience as a whole. But you just mention basically how much your hand hurts because you lack some muscle strength to hold something that weighs the same amount as the original ipad.

aohus said:
its an opinion. so had i made a thread only praising the xoom would that be unnecessary as well?
you can easily not respond to it. the post was created in order to garner discussion. thats all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
dude are you stupid? what you just said is exactly what i claimed as redundant. Had he written this days ago, specifically on the launch date, well this would be a great NEW THREAD. Opinions are great, but having multiple batches of the same crap bloats this forum and is just lazy. go out of your way and look for the countless people who are voicing their beautiful opinions on what they think about this product. all this is garnering is redundancy, and you are no better, hot shot

Elysian893 said:
iPad doesn't have 100k+ native apps, it has 65k... I think your preference on the thicker bezel is also just that, preference. I prefer the Xoom's smaller bezel. Viewing angles on the Xoom are an issue for you? I'm looking at might from an off-angle right this moment and can still read the screen fine. Also, what are you using to judge the color representation? Any kind of professional tools, or is this just your eyes, which are far from what I'd call accurate?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
one can easily find the difference in display quality by the naked eye. If that isn't enough, there are multiple reviews stating the iPad's display is better in terms of contrast ratio, black levels, and color depth.
As for the bezel issue, thats a fair statement to make, its a user preference.
The viewing angles on the iPad IPS display is definitely wider than the Xoom's LCD display. But seriously, i wouldn't consider that a 'dealbreaker.'

Bauxite said:
The Honeycomb SDK has been out for LITERALLY LESS THAN 2 WEEKS. Developers couldn't really develop until they got their own hardware as the emulator sucks. There is one honeycomb device, do you think there will never be any others? I find the app argument really weak. Give it a couple of months and there will be several Honeycomb devices, probably a 3.0.1 or 3.1 android update.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Right, and this is what i stated in the OP
aohus said:
All the Xoom needs is time, so that the bugs can be closed and application support increases. Not to mention the root community on the tablet will explode hopefully in the near future. To be honest, I would LOVE to have an undervolted, overclocked android tablet that can give me almost twice the batt life.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

dudeimgeorge said:
dude are you stupid? what you just said is exactly what i claimed as redundant. Had he written this days ago, specifically on the launch date, well this would be a great NEW THREAD. Opinions are great, but having multiple batches of the same crap bloats this forum and is just lazy. go out of your way and look for the countless people who are voicing their beautiful opinions on what they think about this product. all this is garnering is redundancy, and you are no better, hot shot
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lets not engage in personal attacks here.
the vitriol and negative remarks is atrocious. I would have expected this kind of behavior from apple fanboys. seriously. do we have to be so insecure that we can't critically judge our own product? a shame really.
i'm anxiously awaiting LG, Samsung, and HTC to make its honeycomb debut. Already eyeing the 8.9 inch sammy tablet thats supposed to be very thin and light. we shall see

Xoom is way ahead of its time. The software stack it relies on is way to buggy. From various report on this forum, it can barely play any decent HD video clip and Netflix support is non-existent (probably will never arrive). Yes, over the time the software will improve and stablize. But at its current state (buggy software, no Flash and no microSD support), it is not worth the premium price it is asking for, IMO.

I have a Xoom and a SmartQ R10 (same IPS screen as the iPad). I did a comparison on Slatedroid: http://www.slatedroid.com/index.php?/topic/15865-screen-angles/
The IPS screen, imo, is better. I didn't use graphics and guides to figure this out - it was strictly with my naked eye.
As for the iPad(2), my biggest beef remains which is the walled garden approach to doing things that Apple forces on us. I am not a hater - I own MacOS SL and I love that OS - I personally think it's better than Windows 7. But iOS is a different animal, entirely.
I owned an iPad for a few days, so some examples of what I'm talking about:
- You can't even boot into the iPad until it's connected to iTunes. There's just something blatantly wrong with that way of thinking, imo. I need a desktop OS to use my tablet for the first time.... huh??
- Crippled audio and video support. No AVI, no FLAC, no Vorbis, no MKV etc etc. Yes, you can download (paid) apps to fix this, but why should I have to? Even MS started supporting Xvid AVI's in their Zune HD, last year - and this is MS we're talking about, the king of proprietary lock-down.
(Note: Before the reply of "that's because Apple doesn't support piracy", let me explain what I do. My purchased DVD's are ripped to Xvid AVI's as a standard, or MKV's if I need multiple audio tracks or subs. I made a decision years ago on these formats, as it offered the best compatibility at the time. As for music, I backup my CD's to FLAC and made the decision to use Vorbis as my Cowon music player supports it, it's easier to transcode because the codec is free to use, and it offers better quality than MP3's. But Apple thinks I'm a pirate because I don't use their codecs? I prefer freedom and choice).
- File sharing versus drag and drop. Seriously, why does Apple do this? It's my device, can't I just drop files into it? Are you so afraid that I might use it to play pirated videos that you have to lock this down?
- That HDMI dongle. Seriously, that's just pathetic. Why is so hard to just add a micro-HDMI connector to the iPad2?
- No Flash. EVER. Because Stevey-J has a problem with Adobe, his users pay for it. Don't tell me iPad users don't want it, because we all know that they would like support, deep down inside. Given the OPTION (and I stress that word) of having it if you wanted to, most would choose it. If you don't want Flash, then just don't install it. But give us the option of either / or.
- No external storage. Granted, the Xoom is missing this feature right now, but USB Host mode work (I just confirmed it) and the hardware is there. Apple doesn't add a microSD slot for two reasons - one, because they don't want you actually bypassing their draconian lock-down policies. And two, because no external storage = more money for them for their 32GB / 64GB devices.
The Xoom is FAR from perfect, don't get me wrong. But I suppose it all depends on how you plan to use your device. I tried the iPad1, and I hated it. But that's just me.

Dude who wrote this .....I agree with you
Sent from my Xoom using XDA Premium App

roebeet said:
As for the iPad(2), my biggest beef remains which is the walled garden approach to doing things that Apple forces on us. I am not a hater - I own MacOS SL and I love that OS - I personally think it's better than Windows 7. But iOS is a different animal, entirely.
I owned an iPad for a few days, so some examples of what I'm talking about:
- You can't even boot into the iPad until it's connected to iTunes. There's just something blatantly wrong with that way of thinking, imo. I need a desktop OS to use my tablet for the first time.... huh??
- Crippled audio and video support. No AVI, no FLAC, no Vorbis, no MKV etc etc. Yes, you can download (paid) apps to fix this, but why should I have to? Even MS started supporting Xvid AVI's in their Zune HD, last year - and this is MS we're talking about, the king of proprietary lock-down.
- File sharing versus drag and drop. Seriously, why does Apple do this? It's my device, can't I just drop files into it? Are you so afraid that I might use it to play pirated videos that you have to lock this down?
- That HDMI dongle. Seriously, that's just pathetic. Why is so hard to just add a micro-HDMI connector to the iPad2?
- No Flash. EVER. Because Stevey-J has a problem with Adobe, his users pay for it. Don't tell me iPad users don't want it, because we all know that they would like support, deep down inside. Given the OPTION (and I stress that word) of having it if you wanted to, most would choose it. If you don't want Flash, then just don't install it. But give us the option of either / or.
- No external storage. Granted, the Xoom is missing this feature right now, but USB Host mode work (I just confirmed it) and the hardware is there. Apple doesn't add a microSD slot for two reasons - one, because they don't want you actually bypassing their draconian lock-down policies. And two, because no external storage = more money for them for their 32GB / 64GB devices.
The Xoom is FAR from perfect, don't get me wrong. But I suppose it all depends on how you plan to use your device. I tried the iPad1, and I hated it. But that's just me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You have summarized this very consistently as opposed to the OP. It is getting really bad in this forum that I have to ask whether it is worth to visit.

knut150 said:
You have summarized this very consistently as opposed to the OP. It is getting really bad in this forum that I have to ask whether it is worth to visit.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
some of his points are a little off. i agree with many, but as far as codec support goes, the xoom tablet does not have much codec support. you can't play FLAC, Vorbis, MKV's natively on the Xoom, so its the same for both iDevices and the Xoom tablet.
However, that being said, it doesn't mean its the fault of honeycomb, thats motorola's decision to not support various codecs.
i'm just trying to be rational. it really comes to this.
Either Wait, and see how the other honeycomb tablets turn out
OR, if you need to buy a tablet now, you essentially have two choices when it comes to premium tablets, the xoom or the iPad2.
so you have $800 vs $499 at the moment.
a device thats thinner and lighter, cheaper compared to a singular $800 tablet with a better OS (honeycomb).

aohus said:
so you have $800 vs $499 at the moment.
a device thats thinner and lighter, cheaper compared to a singular $800 tablet with a better OS (honeycomb).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wrong. $729 compared to $800. 3G vs 4G upgradable + expandable memory
The wifi Xoom isn't out yet so you can't compare a wifi only iPad 2 to the Xoom just yet.

Any post that starts off with "I am not a fanboy" is a really good warning that you're about to read a post by a fanboy who doesn't want to be thought of as a fanboy.
Heavy? Don't you find a hardback book to also be heavy if you're wasting energy trying to hold it up for 20 minutes? Get the motorola cover which has a built in stand and use it. or put a throw pillow on your lap and rest it there. The iPad 1 weighs 1.5lbs. The Xoom weighs 1.6lbs. You really think that additional ounce and a half makes more than a negligible difference? Any object of more than about 1/4 pound will start to feel heavy after 20 minutes. The product you're complaining about here is not the Xoom. You're complaining about gravity and your arms. There are multiple work-arounds available beyond those I mentioned above.
Judging from the screenshots you're primarily using your Xoom in Portrait mode, most likely because that's what your Portrait-centric iPad taught you to do. Your Xoom and Honeycomb are both Landscape-centric. Try to make the switch. You'll have a better experience.
"I would highly recommend the iPad2"
Why would anyone take advice about a product from someone who has never touched or used that product?
"I don't mean to knock on the Xoom"
Yes you do. That was the whole point of your post.

aohus said:
some of his points are a little off. i agree with many, but as far as codec support goes, the xoom tablet does not have much codec support. you can't play FLAC, Vorbis, MKV's natively on the Xoom, so its the same for both iDevices and the Xoom tablet.
However, that being said, it doesn't mean its the fault of honeycomb, thats motorola's decision to not support various codecs.
i'm just trying to be rational. it really comes to this.
Either Wait, and see how the other honeycomb tablets turn out
OR, if you need to buy a tablet now, you essentially have two choices when it comes to premium tablets, the xoom or the iPad2.
so you have $800 vs $499 at the moment.
a device thats thinner and lighter, cheaper compared to a singular $800 tablet with a better OS (honeycomb).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are correct - I was mixing my GTAB experience with my Xoom experience. After the fact I realized that the Xoom is actually more crippled codec-wise than my GTAB. That's a surprise.
Vorbis does play OOTB however, I'm a heavy Vorbis user. But the video support is bizarre - MKV works, but only to a point. Depends on the audio / video codec inside. And Xvid AVI's do NOT work, which is worse than my GTAB. FLAC doesn't have OOTB support but apps like Rockbox can fix that.
My bigger point is that the Xoom at least allows you to copy the files and then use an app, if available, to run the content. The iPad doesn't allow that - you have to have the app in advance (usually not free) and then use iTunes file sharing to move the content over. It's much less efficient.
I did do some audio / video testing on an iPad, so I know what was available and the cost for the apps. Vorbis, in particular, really annoyed me because that's my audio codec of choice. The Xoom actually sees Vorbis files, AND reads their tags. That's actually better than my GTAB.
Bad marks on Xvid AVI's, though - I hope that will be fixed. There's no WMA / WMV support either -- that could just be a build.prop change, however.

GTab >>>> Ipad

I posted this in another forum, thought I will re-post it here.
I had Ipad2 for 2 weeks and returned it. Once you use android tablet for a week, you can't go back to Ipad 2.
There are lot of reasons to choose android over ipad. Couple of examples:
=> Google maps kicks ass in android. IPad also has google maps, but its crippled - there are no reviews, no 3D view, no rotating using multi-touch, etc..
=> Widgets make a big difference in the 10" screen. You get the see emails, weather, calendar in the main screen, esp. with re-sizable widgets. Switch on the tablet, look at important stuff, move on with your life. In Ipad, you need to search for the three apps in the sea of icons, open one, close, look for next app and so on. There's a sea of difference in usability.
=> Android task bar has short cuts to change lot of settings like brightness and is available without the need to close the app that you are on. Say, you are reading a webpage that has a link to youtube. For reading you may like low brightness, but video with dark background requires more brightness. Steps to change screen brightness in IPad: you need to close the current app, search for settings icon in the sea of app icons, open settings, look for 'screen' settings, open the settings, look for brightness control, change brightness, double tap the hardware button to see the previous app, click it to open where you were. In honeycomb, you just click the task bar icon, change brightness, done. Now, that's usability.
=> Ipad is 4:3, pretty useless for viewing videos/movies. Watching 16:9 movies in Ipad is painful. Netflix works in Ipad (in the works for android, not out yet), but I honestly couldn't use it in Ipad because of the 4:3 screen. It's like watching movie on the old CRT screen.
=> IPad has no flash.
=> IPad has no back button. Every app implements 'back' functionality in their own way. You need to search for the 'back' button in every app. It gets frustrating very fast. Android has a beautiful back button that's available always and behaves exactly the same way in every app. It's magical. Really.
This is just the tip of iceberg. The list goes on and on.
If you are not big on games, then the several thousand apps in the app store means nothing. Because every useful app has a counterpart in honeycomb.
I know this is a android/gtab 10.1 forum so we'll be obviously biased, but what do you think of ipad?

I agree with everything you have said - not to mention the specs are under that of the 10.1, and if the rumors are true around the place there will be an updated model either at the time of the release of the 4G (unlikely), or within a few months after...
I am crossing my fingers and waiting for the rumors to be confirmed because if an updated model with wqxga (retina display competitor) 300+ dpi, plus microSD (if it's not released with the coming model), and possible quad core cpu (although it might just be the exynos 1.2Ghz), comes out within that sort of time frame then bugger me you are already beating the released 'possible' specs of the 2012/2013 release of iPad3!
lol - I am seriously excited about the 10.1. I have no doubt it is going to rock the crap out of the iPad2 for all the reasons you have stated and many more.
I have no concerns about possible build issues with the device as I have an Omnia 2 which is the same high grade plastics they are using in the 10.1 and i have dropped it many many many times - the phone has no issues, no cracking no warping etc it is just like the day i bought it (with some minor scratches of course).
Also people say customer service is crap for Samsung - well that depends on the country you are in and your expectations but let me tell you here in the philippines where customer service for the majority of companies is unheard of, I have had my screen replaced on the Omnia 2 when i had some white dots appear (probably due to me dropping it down some stairs on to concrete), no questions asked, within 3 to 5 days. and that was with a cooked rom that came up with a naughty boot message.
So yeah I don't blame you for trading in your iPad2

I started writing out this long response on all the positive points I see with the iPad 2 over the Galaxy Tab 10.1. Not because I think the iPad 2 is better. Just wanted to point out some of the iPad's strengths because I do think the device is pretty good.
But I like the Galaxy Tab 10.1 more, got worried I might come off wrong and get riped apart like a rabbit before a pack of wolves. Haha.
So instead of the long post, I'll just give a brief short list of what I consider some pros for the iPad 2 over the Galaxy Tab 10.1... and I emphasis I still like the Galaxy Tab 10.1 more and am waiting to buy one.
* Over 50,000 tablet optimized apps. Original iPad came out over a year and has been massively successful. Apple has a huge head start. I think the Android optimized apps still count in the low hundreds right now. And I often see lesser quality with the Android versions. It'll improve, but it's going to take time.
* iOS is more stable. 3.1 has helped, Android Market doesn't bug out on me as much. But there are still stability issues with Honeycomb. I'm a little fearful to install too many apps on my Android tablets because I've had some apps have a negative impact on the entire tablet's performance. Even Motorola's CEO commented recently on this being a concern. iOS on the other hand I have no fear installing everything I see (had over 120 apps on my iPad 1) without fear of performance issues.
* iPad has excellent standby battery life. I can leave the iPad asleep for 24 hours and find it the next day still at 99 or 100% battery life. My Android tablets seem to lose about 25% or more battery life a day just sleeping. I wish more review sites would measure this. I'm curious how much it varies between Android tablets and wouldn't mind seeing more light shed on the issue.
There are other things I could bring up. But generally iPad's strength is the maturity and polishness of it's OS, it's 1 year head start and massive number quality apps.
Still. An exciting thing about Android is this is it's first tablet OS, I think things are moving fast for Android, and we get to be along for the ride. It's only going to keep getting better. And we are already blessed with amazing freedom, flexibility, and customization options. This is what I love about Android.
And I had seriously thought about getting an iPad 2. There are some apps I know I like much more on iOS than Android. But I feel like I'm just giving up way too much control for that. And I think the apps will get better here.

Ravynmagi said:
* iPad has excellent standby battery life. I can leave the iPad asleep for 24 hours and find it the next day still at 99 or 100% battery life. My Android tablets seem to lose about 25% or more battery life a day just sleeping. I wish more review sites would measure this. I'm curious how much it varies between Android tablets and wouldn't mind seeing more light shed on the issue.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, this is weird. Samsung has a bigger battery, but 2 1/2 hours less runtime on the Anandtech review.

Again I agree with everything you said as well and as far as summaries are concerned you are probably summing up the majority opinion on the overall apple or something else debate.
I am an intel person myself because of that very freedom Apple lacks. I love intel because if I want to dual boot, or just feel like blowing my machine away and running pure linux, or windows or whatever even a hacked version of OSX, I can do that. You go apple, you have to use their hardware - while it is pretty sexy etc it is expensive and you can't mix and match the way you can with intel or make your own best of breed monster. If it had of been they didn't customise OSX to only run on apple hardware i probably would have switched to OSX and been laughing - but again they chose to limit their market and for whatever reason maintain the big f you apple sentiment (maybe just in my opinion only )
The same goes for the tablets - with IOS you are stuck with IOS - you can jailbreak it but with more and more difficulty, and gain access to 100,000's of really cool apps and games, it seems to flow a bit better (well at least in the iphone arena) than other OS's etc but at the end of the day you are stuck with IOS and their way of doing things as otherhawkeye said in his/her post.
My biggest dislikes re apple mobile technology - no common connectivity options (micro usb connector), cannot remove the battery and replace it yourself, no microSD, limited to itunes for a lot of things, lack of common options like gps, 3g etc until their customers all complain and then they add one in and then their customers complain some more and they add some more in. Some people like to be ripped off and jerked around and played like the fools apple must think of the majority of people out there... but sorry it's just not to my liking.
I have to give props to Samsung for actually stating once Apple had released iPad2 that they were going to delay the release of their product revamp it and release a better product because he felt (ceo of samsung) that the 10.1v was inadequate! This is a Korean based company and they are known for quality - that is what the Korean's pride themselves on - best quality from clothes, food, appliances, cars etc - you ask a Korean and they will say everything of theirs is better quality than anywhere else from rice to well everything. That's the mindset they have ... so while it may not always be the case in the real world and is a little biased etc, you have a company trying to live up to that ethos and saying while the 10.1v is good and in many ways still better than the competition they can make it better before finally releasing it.
Apple - ummm well just look here and see what has changed from iPad 1 to iPad2 http://www.engadget.com/2011/03/02/ipad-2-vs-original-ipad-whats-changed this is a YEAR between release dates also....
Remember this is an entirely NEW product yet only a few things have changed. and the cameras they added in are of particularly crap quality according to many reviews. Pleeeease don't tell me that they couldn't have included a better camera, please don't tell me they couldn't include a microSD card, or micro USB or put in the retina display like they did for the iPhone4, or a host of other things that are in smaller devices already. Your probably going to talk quality control and proper lead time for adding in things right - or give other reasons why they don't want to "clutter" the thing with microSD or micro USB etc but ... faf that!
As I have said in my previous post there are already hints that later this year (we're already half way through), that Samsung will more than likely release another version of the same tab with a few extras, if they don't release them along with the 4g version... this is the same product getting revamped for the 2nd time WITHIN the same year! Why? It would be nice to think of it as living up to the ethos but I like to think that it's more that they are sick of Apple releasing inferior products and cleaning up the market with hype and sexiness and they really want to stick it to Apple.....
lol I hope that doesn't come off as apple bashing too much....

Ravynmagi said:
There are other things I could bring up. But generally iPad's strength is the maturity and polishness of it's OS, it's 1 year head start and massive number quality apps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not sure about the "more polishness", but its more stable than honeycomb. I think honeycomb is more polished than ios, but it's less stable right now due to the FCs.
About battery life - honeycomb tablets don't have bad battery life. 8-10 hours battery life is not bad. Apple does have couple of more hours of battery life and better standby battery life, but then we are now in the bragging rights territory. If you charge every day and not going on international trips, the extra hour of battery life is not going to matter to most of the tablet buyers.
Same goes for app store. You said you have 120 apps installed in your ipad, average person has 5 to 20. Honeycomb had every app *I* wanted. The quality of third party apps was similar between Ipad and Honeycomb. But YMMV. If a person needs a specialized app that's not available in HC, then they need to stick with Ipad. OTOH, google apps are vastly superior to the ones in Ipad. That was the deciding factor for me.

Is it true that iPhone apps do not scale on the iPad? I am sure I heard this somewhere, but I cannot imagine it's true.
With that said, while there are not many Honeycomb-specific apps, at least most pre-3.0 apps play nice with HC (upscaling for screen size).
I had a brief time (about 3 hours) where I thought the iPad2 would be a better option for me than the Galaxy Tab 10.1. Luckily, I was talked off the ledge. The only thing that had me leaning towards the Pad is tablet-specific apps, but in the end most of my tablet usage is through the browser.
What sealed the deal in my getting the Galaxy Tab 10.1 was the deep integration of Google services. Until iOS5 comes out, there is definitely nothing on the iPad that holds a candles to Google's Android-account management system (not that I'm aware of, but I an ignorant on this subject).

mightymouse2045 said:
Again I agree with everything you said as well and as far as summaries are concerned you are probably summing up the majority opinion on the overall apple or something else debate.
I am an intel person myself because of that very freedom Apple lacks. I love intel because if I want to dual boot, or just feel like blowing my machine away and running pure linux, or windows or whatever even a hacked version of OSX, I can do that. You go apple, you have to use their hardware - while it is pretty sexy etc it is expensive and you can't mix and match the way you can with intel or make your own best of breed monster. If it had of been they didn't customise OSX to only run on apple hardware i probably would have switched to OSX and been laughing - but again they chose to limit their market and for whatever reason maintain the big f you apple sentiment (maybe just in my opinion only )
The same goes for the tablets - with IOS you are stuck with IOS - you can jailbreak it but with more and more difficulty, and gain access to 100,000's of really cool apps and games, it seems to flow a bit better (well at least in the iphone arena) than other OS's etc but at the end of the day you are stuck with IOS and their way of doing things as otherhawkeye said in his/her post.
My biggest dislikes re apple mobile technology - no common connectivity options (micro usb connector), cannot remove the battery and replace it yourself, no microSD, limited to itunes for a lot of things, lack of common options like gps, 3g etc until their customers all complain and then they add one in and then their customers complain some more and they add some more in. Some people like to be ripped off and jerked around and played like the fools apple must think of the majority of people out there... but sorry it's just not to my liking.
I have to give props to Samsung for actually stating once Apple had released iPad2 that they were going to delay the release of their product revamp it and release a better product because he felt (ceo of samsung) that the 10.1v was inadequate! This is a Korean based company and they are known for quality - that is what the Korean's pride themselves on - best quality from clothes, food, appliances, cars etc - you ask a Korean and they will say everything of theirs is better quality than anywhere else from rice to well everything. That's the mindset they have ... so while it may not always be the case in the real world and is a little biased etc, you have a company trying to live up to that ethos and saying while the 10.1v is good and in many ways still better than the competition they can make it better before finally releasing it.
Apple - ummm well just look here and see what has changed from iPad 1 to iPad2 http://www.engadget.com/2011/03/02/ipad-2-vs-original-ipad-whats-changed this is a YEAR between release dates also....
Remember this is an entirely NEW product yet only a few things have changed. and the cameras they added in are of particularly crap quality according to many reviews. Pleeeease don't tell me that they couldn't have included a better camera, please don't tell me they couldn't include a microSD card, or micro USB or put in the retina display like they did for the iPhone4, or a host of other things that are in smaller devices already. Your probably going to talk quality control and proper lead time for adding in things right - or give other reasons why they don't want to "clutter" the thing with microSD or micro USB etc but ... faf that!
As I have said in my previous post there are already hints that later this year (we're already half way through), that Samsung will more than likely release another version of the same tab with a few extras, if they don't release them along with the 4g version... this is the same product getting revamped for the 2nd time WITHIN the same year! Why? It would be nice to think of it as living up to the ethos but I like to think that it's more that they are sick of Apple releasing inferior products and cleaning up the market with hype and sexiness and they really want to stick it to Apple.....
lol I hope that doesn't come off as apple bashing too much....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
umm.. you do realize that apple computer run on intel chips, right? saying that you're "an intel person" doesn't really many any sense..
anyway, you say that the ipad sucks because they use proprietary ports, don't have sd, etc. but... the galaxy tab 10.1 doesn't have those things either

ralexand said:
Is it true that iPhone apps do not scale on the iPad? I am sure I heard this somewhere, but I cannot imagine it's true.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's true. iPhone apps run on iPad /w the same resolution (occupy a tiny area in the middle of the tablet) or 2x the resolution (occupy most of the tablet screen, but /w blurry text, etc.). Either way, I found it unusable.
OTOH, many, but not all, phone apps run well in HC. They scale nicely and you would hardly know that they are not designed for HC. Case in point, engadget app or many of the news apps.

smaskell said:
umm.. you do realize that apple computer run on intel chips, right? saying that you're "an intel person" doesn't really many any sense..
anyway, you say that the ipad sucks because they use proprietary ports, don't have sd, etc. but... the galaxy tab 10.1 doesn't have those things either
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol yes i know they changed over to intel hardware - however OSX only supports their combination of hardware, won't install on other hardware etc unless you get the hacked boot image and then the drivers that are in the 'hacked' OSX support some hardware and not others and the hardware that is supported it varies on either partial support to full support. when i played with it last year i could only get a single gpu working on my dual gpu video card, no wifi support, no 3d effects, multi threading and virtual support and some other issues that I just wasn't willing to accept. They have a kickass OS why don't they release it to the masses - because they want you to buy the hardware as well from them to get more money. It's like the Catholic church - the only path to God is through the church.
The intel man statement was more meant to describe the freedom you have when using intel based hardware, windows and linux OS's compared with if you go OSX and in the past risc based Apple - you need apple hardware. I like open standards, compatibility and choices for my computing experience.
Yes I am aware of the 'potentially' missing microSD port, and the proprietary 30 pin port to USB cable it comes with. You didn't read what I said about possible 2nd revamp and release of another version which would include the microSD along with an even better screen and maybe a quad core later this year?
Look through some other posts about what supercurio is saying about the current gtab 10.1 - transformer has a screen - gtab 10.1's screen is art, and other comments comparing ips (apple) to pls (gtab 10.1).

mightymouse2045 said:
lol yes i know they changed over to intel hardware - however OSX only supports their combination of hardware, won't install on other hardware etc unless you get the hacked boot image and then the drivers that are in the 'hacked' OSX support some hardware and not others and the hardware that is supported it varies on either partial support to full support. when i played with it last year i could only get a single gpu working on my dual gpu video card, no wifi support, no 3d effects, multi threading and virtual support and some other issues that I just wasn't willing to accept. They have a kickass OS why don't they release it to the masses - because they want you to buy the hardware as well from them to get more money. It's like the Catholic church - the only path to God is through the church.
The intel man statement was more meant to describe the freedom you have when using intel based hardware, windows and linux OS's compared with if you go OSX and in the past risc based Apple - you need apple hardware. I like open standards, compatibility and choices for my computing experience.
Yes I am aware of the 'potentially' missing microSD port, and the proprietary 30 pin port to USB cable it comes with. You didn't read what I said about possible 2nd revamp and release of another version which would include the microSD along with an even better screen and maybe a quad core later this year?
Look through some other posts about what supercurio is saying about the current gtab 10.1 - transformer has a screen - gtab 10.1's screen is art, and other comments comparing ips (apple) to pls (gtab 10.1).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, of course. I couldn't agree more. Just thought it was a bit of an odd way of putting it haha.

Resource for smartwatch makers

THIS IS A RESOURCE FOR SMARTWATCH MAKERS
Northern English pronoun & adverb for nothing is 'Nowt'. The Nowt smartWatch by XDA members.
The corporations won't make a good smartwatch due to greed, smaller firms can't, due to lack resources and software access/rights (more greed by corporations). Crowd funding has repeatedly failed, see Omate TS. Time for a simple revolution ... can XDA members (or the people in general) build a good smartwatch?
Software is one of the biggest issue, but can't a 1000+ committed, devs, electronic engineers, analyst, passionate horologists and very ... very tenacious dreamers attempt it? Starting with finding solutions to the most common issues faced by those who 'have already been there and not quite made it'? If there's one place where the right people are, its here on XDA.
Lots of debates about the issues have been made and forgotten, see the Omate TrueSmart threads and some blogs.
Here's one: http://www.smartwatchgroup.com/overview-smartwatch-industry/
http://www.xda-developers.com/smartwatches-had-no-year-again/ - another one, see @Lokifish Marz comments. Other comments below to start the discussion off . . . .
______________________________________________________________________________
@Lokifish Marz said:
General rules with Chinese Android smartwatches
Broken firmware
Major security holes
Little to no official support (this includes the phone side app)
English (or any other language other than Chinese) for the phone app is very rare
Incomplete source code (when you can even get it) that is a generic build pulled from a phone
Inconsistent battery life due to broken firmware
IP67 is more like IP54 if lucky
Poor build quality and QC by western standards
Not Lokifish supported (I've walked away from the industry as a whole until they get their collective heads out of their butts)
kuronosan's time is limited so fixes may be slow
Depending on your needs and goals. Talk to Ingenic. The HW is a little slow on the Newton (SmartQ Z uses it), not sure about the Newton 2. Either way they have source (Linux, Android, etc). The package is small enough that you could design and build a smartwatch that's about the same size as a real watch, but the display will need a new "crystal" to pull it off nicely. Find a compatible round display, and you should be able to use off the shelf watch cases with minor modifications giving you a 200m diver's smartwatch if you do it right.
*Side note
Even with a 1/2 million buy in for 3000 units we designed ourselves, Umeox still would not have provided source code, and little to no support. That's what the Chinese ODM's are like. kuronosan can verify this.
______________________________________________
@Lokifish Marz said:
JZ4775 supports;
Linux (image and source available from Ingenic)
Android (image and source available from Ingenic)
Wear (Com 1's prototype was running Wear before Google strong armed Com 1 and pretty much killed the company)
_________________________________________
simple1I said:
I've come to the conclusion that the only way to build a decent smartwatch is by 500 (or more) xda members coming together on a project:
- committing our own money.
- Electing a group of experts.
- HARDWARE - building from scratch,
- SOFTWARE - take what's out there and amend it.
- trawling thru members ideas.
- People powered, no management, no profits. Not even kickstarter.
The advantage over all other watches would be the 'no profits', so a good quality long lasting watch could be crafted.
I'll leave it for someone else to post the disadvantages...
____________________________________________________
@Lokifish Marz said:
- You would still need some sort of hierarchy.
- 15-20% net profit cap would still be much lower than the industry and allow for growth.
- HW is not the big issue. SW, case design and source are
- ODMs deal in +1000 unit lots so the "buy in" is very expensive
Let's just say this comes from a been there, tried that perspective minus the xda member support. XDA members were not approached, neither was the public, due to one main reason. Corporations with far more purchasing power and capitol are known for "borrowing". Especially in China.
This is of course off topic so back to Mars I go.
____________________________________________
So . . . the software and stealing ideas and people is an issue, how can we overcome these?

If this goes anywhere I'll contribute, and also see if I can get Watch U Seek involved.
Maybe a WUS/XDA collaborative work smartwatch? If that happened, that alone would have a lot of pull in both the traditional and smartwatch communities.

XDA/WUS watch project
Lokifish Marz said:
If this goes anywhere I'll contribute, and also see if I can get Watch U Seek involved.
Maybe a WUS/XDA collaborative work smartwatch? If that happened, that alone would have a lot of pull in both the traditional and smartwatch communities.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For those that dont know WatchuSeek is the largest watch forum, @Lokifish Marz - would you like to post a thread on WUS or shall I, its just that you'll receive more attention or I can start it and you can add your support?
CEO of OnePlus, Pete Lau's excellent interview, one former hardware employee of Oppo that made a successfull product in 1.5 years with only five employees. How did they start? With lots & lots of community ideas, we (the XDA community) to a certain extent already have loads of ideas and feedback already, we have learned a lot of the Omate Truesmart watch failure and Lokifish Marz has (i'm sure others too) have already attempted the first iteration, this is all feedback and ideas to base the new watch on.
@E:V:A - you mentioned - http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=52695562&postcount=28 -
There are plenty of HW/SW experts who'd have been willing to contribute for free (including myself) to an awesome product, but in hindsight, Omate's primary purpose was clearly to become rich quickly, and not to create or build.
The most important success indicators are:
1) How you handle customer issues
2) How you keep your product's marketing promises
3) How fast you can deliver the product
4) How you get and keep an expert team
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What do you say?

Get as many core points covered as possible (devs and the like), then approach WUS members. I'm still pretty much unknown there (most of my stuff is in the Russian section) but have no issue posting on WUS once HW/SW folks are on board. I suggest this route because traditional watch lovers are a very hard sell and the more flashed out it is, the greater chance of getting folks on board.
Like I've said elsewhere, my ideas at this point are up for grabs so here's a partial list off the top of my head;
PCB and battery same size as display or smaller
Design it as if it's a dial and movement, allowing for greater case variation
1-2mm border between edge of display and case max
Dress = 1 crown, no pushers
Sports = 1 crown, 2 pushers
Diver = same as sports but sealable mic port and functional bezel
42mm or smaller (the big watch thing is starting to go out of style anyways)
Square designs based in iconic square watches
I also personally suggest Acrylic "crystals" on certain models. The may be easier to scratch but near impossible to shatter, and most scratches can be buffed out.
I also suggest playing with the concept of lume in the display itself on certain models. It has some technical hurdles but has a number of advantages. One being that as long as you have a light source (flashlight, etc) you can "recharge" the "secondary passive backlight" (lume) and get a couple hours of night adjusted eyesight visibility without the use of a backlight. The battery savings is obvious.
In response to your list;
Set standards, warranty terms and procedures early and stick to them. Back it up with people that care and know the product first hand
Don't approach the market until a fully functional prototype with all the features exists.
Don't offer it til in a position where all you need to do is send the money to the ODM for production of the final product.
Not sure about the get part but, the team needs to be seen as being a part of the device itself. I even had the idea of using microdots or micro engraving the teams names into the inside of every watch. The physiological reasons are obvious. If there is a pay thing, that's what business planners and accountants are there for.

@Lokifish Marz - I see this will take a lot of planning, I haven't forgotten, I'm thinking things thru.
The most important question is, will this project be for a stand-alone or a notifier? This will determined what support we'll get form the community.

Greetings,
I am a senior Electrical Engineer with 9 year experience and I do PCB design for a living. I am interested in helping this project. To start with, we need a list of what we want / need in the design, a wish list. From there we can put together a plan for building the circuit board, the specifications document. Let me know if you can use me. I do have access to PCB layout and design tools, and experience using them.

As long as you dont mind MIPS android, you could use the M200, from igenic. They provide Android or linux based sources, and the newton2 dev chip is cheap, $100.
Edit: I forgot to add: 1.2 gHz plus a low power core, along with active voice recognition.

If you get this off the ground, I will help with UI, concept, and clock design and offer any other assistance I can provide.

I know we don't have enough support at the moment, but can we start with some ideas based on past experiences.
Standalone like the InWatch Z or a notifier like the Qualcomm Toq? Both of these examples are best thing we have to a decent attempt at a smartwatch.
Should we build a notifier or a Standalone? Or like the LG Urbane both.
One idea I've been thinking about, would a color screen like the new Pebble Time work with Android? I don't think it would handle video, the battery life would be an advantage.

I don't think a standalone device is really practical as a first try. I believe there are regulations in the EU and US, regarding basebands and IMEIs, that the small Chinese companies just ignore. Also, if you are thinking of using off-the-shelf cases then getting decent reception for phone antenna becomes a big problem and using a special strap for it, as some manufacturers do, would not be an option.
As someone who has been wearing a Mimi mi-w3 for the last few months I would never again consider a watch that doesn't have an always on, sunlight readable screen and I suspect that may well be true for many other people. Perhaps you could put together some kind of poll or survey?

Pseud O'Nym said:
I don't think a standalone device is really practical as a first try. I believe there are regulations in the EU and US, regarding basebands and IMEIs, that the small Chinese companies just ignore. Also, if you are thinking of using off-the-shelf cases then getting decent reception for phone antenna becomes a big problem and using a special strap for it, as some manufacturers do, would not be an option.
As someone who has been wearing a Mimi mi-w3 for the last few months I would never again consider a watch that doesn't have an always on, sunlight readable screen and I suspect that may well be true for many other people. Perhaps you could put together some kind of poll or survey?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're 100% right about the W3. It would really be hard to go back to a watch that was unreadable out doors.

chainsol said:
As long as you dont mind MIPS android, you could use the M200, from igenic. They provide Android or linux based sources, and the newton2 dev chip is cheap, $100.
Edit: I forgot to add: 1.2 gHz plus a low power core, along with active voice recognition.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ingenic has been at the top of my list for some time for those very reasons.
simple1i said:
Should we build a notifier or a Standalone? Or like the LG Urbane both.
One idea I've been thinking about, would a color screen like the new Pebble Time work with Android? I don't think it would handle video, the battery life would be an advantage.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Companion should be first. The display is a preference thing. I don't like E-Ink due to it's low ppi, poor refresh rates and ghosting. A smooth UI will require something else. I still think transflectives are the way to go for a number of reasons, and a black transflective (Sony SW2) is better than silver (inWatch). I still have yet to play with the secondary backlight but will as soon as I figure out what smartwatch to sacrifice to test it.
I saw your post about a case in another thread. The problem with most smartwatch cases is they are not designed to the same standards as a traditional case. There are also far more watch case manufacturers than smartwatch case manufacturers due to smartwatches being completely in-house. That allows for more base variations and most likely lower costs.
Off topic- Latest watch project. Original on the left, finished mod on the right.

Standalone
Remember for standalone: we'd have to go through all of the certifications for connections in the us, and for Android in general, to have google apps, we'd have to pay for inspection: 25 to 75k.

chainsol said:
Remember for standalone: we'd have to go through all of the certifications for connections in the us, and for Android in general, to have google apps, we'd have to pay for inspection: 25 to 75k.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Straight Android = No official certification, ever.
Wear = Google partners only.
Linux = No limitations, but it has to be a truly complete package.

Lokifish Marz said:
Straight Android = No official certification, ever.
Wear = Google partners only.
Linux = No limitations, but it has to be a truly complete package.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Aha, I misread an article slightly, we'd be using a pretty standard version of Android, with no competition to Google, so you are absolutely right.

Watch size and case design
Case sizing
Something often ignored in the smartwatch world is proper case sizes. It's almost as if they are betting that the recent (past 5-10 years) over sized watch fad continues so they can ignore what is considered proper watch sizing. Speak with any watchmaker or jeweler with a reputation for quality and you will get some very simple rules.
A proper fitting watch should never be wider than your wrist. The strap should also never droop over the wrist. Apparently smartwatch makers never got that 100 year old memo;
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Now there is a simple guide to proper sizing that many in the watch community agree on. It's called the the "Golden Ratio". The golden ratio is probably one of the most common seen ratios seen in the world. Architects, painters, car designers, and even nature uses it.
Now there cannot be a one size fits all of course, but you can get close. First one has to take into account certain commonalities in wrist sizes. The average man's wrist is about 7.5 inches in diameter, and the average woman's wrist is around 6 inches. A 40mm case diameter it puts you in between too large for women with small wrists, and too small for men with larger wrists. Additionally, if you look at the entire Rolex large unisex collection, it averages out to about 40mm. Other quality/luxury brands are also about the same.
At 40mm diameter it puts the near ideal display size at 31-33mm in diameter, or 1.2-1.3in . This allows for a Sports and Diver's model with functional bezel while giving enough leeway for a slightly smaller "dress" watch. Another factor in case design is the case/bezel to crystal ratio.
Bezel to display ratio
Dress/Formal
On most dress/formal watches they have a case/bezel to crystal ratio of about 1:0.937. This means the display diameter is 93% that of the case/bezel diameter. This allows for two things. Larger display or smaller case. Traditionally, dress/formal watches are smaller in size so I suggest a smaller case for this group.
Sports/Diver's
Here that average ratio is 1:0.8, or 80%. This gives a bezel that is not too fat or too thin while retaining enough width for markings.
Display resolution
240x240 and 320x320 are a little short on ppi. 400x400 is slowly coming available which puts a 1.2-1.3in display over the 300ppi mark should a source for such a size be found. This also puts the display at Nexus 4/iPhone 5 level of detail.
Square vs Round
Square smartwatches are often referred to as "not a watch" by the uninitiated. This is of course very far from the truth. Some of the generally agreed upon iconic watches are square. Part of the issue with smartwatches is an attractive square design is difficult. A perfect square is unpleasant to the eye but the wasted space around square displays is equally unpleasant. There is also the issue of orientation of rectangular displays. Most are horizontal which leads to a "fat watch" look. If square displays are to be used then a taper at the top and bottom should be used or a minimalist design. Here's some examples;
Tapered (tapered poses an issue with overall length being too great unless smaller displays are used)
Minimalist (even with lugs this can be a very attractive design)
(This is all based on a ton of research, informed smartwatch users complaints, and traditional watch users complaints, with a dash of personal opinion for flavor.)
EDIT:
Something to investigate. If a more suitable size can be found with a decent capacity or even custom size.

It's easier to go companion and add features than standalone and add companion.

In terms of open-source smartwatch,there is an important development going on here!
Check the github repo, it's almost ready!

First a watch...
So as long as we don't have huge opposition (which is unlikely) it's agreed then, we'll build a companion watch.
But like most 'everyday watch' it needs lots of functions that make it a good watch first, that can also do excellent notifications. My backup & most trusted watch is a Casio Protek, it just works all the time . . . can't really afford a Rolex, which also 'always works' too with greater style & class. But I must say as classless as a Casio may be to some, its like a Toyota, not much to look at, but reliable. No offence to anyone, I have both.
By a good watch, I mean stylish, durable with enough functions that it can be used/worn without a phone, as a time peice, as a sports aid with lots of sensors to make it alive. So in a matter of speaking it needs to be a like a standalone minus the SIM.
Still lots of discussion about the hardware is needed, but we really need to also start a serious and challenging discussion about the software/OS, here's where most smartwatch' fail, however we have a huge pool of talent on XDA. I intentionally haven't posted any announcement on the other (Sony, Samsung, Pebble) forums, because we need to get some general idea for the software first then get others to help develop those ideas, else we'll might be flooded with too many suggestions.
So software?
Web OS, no or no? [emoji51]
Wear is a no & can't
Linux was mentioned...?

Linux for the Ingenic is available and GPL compliance should not be an issue. Would be a foundation and up build which is more difficult, but could be tailored specifically to our needs unlike Android or Wear.
WebOS has a lot of potential and is open source as well but HW specific source may not be available for Ingenic. That requires somebody very familiar with WebOS to work with Ingenic on building it. Again, compliance should not be an issue.
NucleusOS may be an option but not sure if they have an Ingenic build and full GPL compliance may be an issue.
Anybody here familiar with what going on the BSD side of things? I ask because GPLv2 and GPLv3 are not compatible with each other and allows for proprietary code to be withheld. BSD licenses are more a "as long as you give me credit" type setup and is far more open/flexible than GPL.
If I missed anything let me know.