Database Users

Locking off bootloaders

Can you really blame them? I wonder sometimes how many Android returns are due to user screw ups, just look at the kindle fire forums, every other thread is, "help I bricked my fire"
I know this is a dev forum, but it doesn't surprise me at all that manufacturers are making it tougher.
Discuss
Sent from my Rezound using Tapatalk

Shouldn't matter, we know the risks of modding our phones, we pay for our phones and a lot more than we should over the life of a contract and even with upgrade price, we own our phone and should be able to have the bootloaders unlocked.
-Sent from my Droid 2-

It will be great to get our devices with S-OFF and eng S-OFF in advance.
We will not spend so much time with rooting then

Lol, 98% of kindle fire "brick" threads aren't actually bricked.. Being a kindle owner myself, its actually just because the computer doesn't recognize the device when it is stuck at fastboot.. (Easy fix by uninstalling all adb drivers and letting windows find the driver when you plug the kindle fire back in) The symptoms are like brick because it only powers on and it stuck at the kindle fire logo until you change the bootmode via computer...

I can see it now...
Hi Google?
What can I help you with?
My 5 second Google search led me to believe I could flash my street fighter rom to my phone?
::face_palm::

The main problem about unlocking bootloaders is the user itself.
A lot of people are throwing themselves in unlocking, rooting etc etc without reading and pay attention to the warnings. So, if my neighbour can do it, i'll do myself... The technical background is not the same for everyone, so it's not as simple as this.
I ve to admit that i blocked two or three devices (HTC desire HD, Xperia Arc, SGS2) but all the answers were here, if we know how to search unbricking a device only takes a few seconds/minutes to do.
Since the marority of newbies will not read, and search correctly in this forum, the brands will continue to lock their bootloaders to avoid problems with the 95% of users who think they know, but they don't.

I Am Marino said:
Shouldn't matter, we know the risks of modding our phones, we pay for our phones and a lot more than we should over the life of a contract and even with upgrade price, we own our phone and should be able to have the bootloaders unlocked.
-Sent from my Droid 2-
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think that is why htc is offering an official unlocking tool, that will void your warranty. That way, you can do what you want, but htc isn't on the hook when you brick it.

e334 said:
Lol, 98% of kindle fire "brick" threads aren't actually bricked.. Being a kindle owner myself, its actually just because the computer doesn't recognize the device when it is stuck at fastboot.. (Easy fix by uninstalling all adb drivers and letting windows find the driver when you plug the kindle fire back in) The symptoms are like brick because it only powers on and it stuck at the kindle fire logo until you change the bootmode via computer...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Now look at it through the eyes of the average user. Is that really just a common sense fix?
It is in no way in the OEM's best interest to unlock the bootloader. For them, it's nothing but trouble. Those who want a back door will find one, the tougher it is to get into, the more idiots you can eliminate from the equation.

z33dev33l said:
Now look at it through the eyes of the average user. Is that really just a common sense fix?
It is in no way in the OEM's best interest to unlock the bootloader. For them, it's nothing but trouble. Those who want a back door will find one, the tougher it is to get into, the more idiots you can eliminate from the equation.
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Click to collapse
I think part of why mfgs are still apprehensive of unlocking bootloaders is because they want to protect their code sense, blurr, etc... Some folks are changing there tune. Curious that unlike unlocking Google experience devices some mfgs are developing there own "unlock tool" I'll be apprehensive about using any tool from an mfg. I'm sure they'll CYA and you'll take all of the risk..

nrfitchett4 said:
Can you really blame them? I wonder sometimes how many Android returns are due to user screw ups, just look at the kindle fire forums, every other thread is, "help I bricked my fire"
I know this is a dev forum, but it doesn't surprise me at all that manufacturers are making it tougher.
Discuss
Sent from my Rezound using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
like many have mentioned, we know what were doing to our phones by rooting/modding, but the manufacturer is treating us like little kids by not trusting us (looking @ you motorola)
Sent from my MB870 using xda premium

Haha, i'm one of those "haaaaah bricked my kindle fire" and yes i was just stuck in fastboot, some reading i build my fix
fastboot -i 0x1949 boot CWM5-B2.img
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Click to collapse
For the manufacturer open bootloader means trouble, people will just brick there devices.
An other interesting argument i was stumling i going like: "We have to look the bootloader to keep the software integer for people not messing with the drm of music / videos. "

yea, i believe they just wanna protect their code

All arguments for a locked bootloader are invalid.
Does your PC have a locked bootloader? NO.
Can you install whatever OS you want on it, provided it is architecture-compatible? YES.
Do PCs get messed up during botched OS installations? Sure they do. Do companies suddenly lose billions and go out of business as a result? NO.
Locking the bootloader on a device is censorship. End of story.

synaesthetic said:
All arguments for a locked bootloader are invalid.
Does your PC have a locked bootloader? NO.
Can you install whatever OS you want on it, provided it is architecture-compatible? YES.
Do PCs get messed up during botched OS installations? Sure they do. Do companies suddenly lose billions and go out of business as a result? NO.
Locking the bootloader on a device is censorship. End of story.
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Click to collapse
I agree. Besides the number of people who actually mess around with their phones are a small amount. I'd say maybe less than 2% (and that's being generous).
If you don't want a locked bootloader, get a Samsung.

synaesthetic said:
All arguments for a locked bootloader are invalid.
Does your PC have a locked bootloader? NO.
Can you install whatever OS you want on it, provided it is architecture-compatible? YES.
Do PCs get messed up during botched OS installations? Sure they do. Do companies suddenly lose billions and go out of business as a result? NO.
Locking the bootloader on a device is censorship. End of story.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Also, do PC companies care if you overclock your PC? No.
Bottom line, all in all, this is one of the best posts I've ever had the privilege to quote on XDA.

I Am Marino said:
Also, do PC companies care if you overclock your PC? No.
Bottom line, all in all, this is one of the best posts I've ever had the privilege to quote on XDA.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And why the hell not? A smartphone is nothing more than a pocket-sized computer with telephony features. Any desktop from the past thirty years can also make phone calls provided it's connected to a network. So the fact that a smartphone makes calls does not make it less of a computer.
It's a computer. A very small computer that fits in your pocket, that also has phone functions. I long for the day when I can buy a barebones smartphone and install whatever OS I want on it, Android or MeeGo or Ubuntu Mobile or Symbian or Windows Phone or whatever other mobile-oriented OSes are out there at the time.

I just long for the day people get complete control of something they actually own.

synaesthetic said:
All arguments for a locked bootloader are invalid.
Does your PC have a locked bootloader? NO.
Can you install whatever OS you want on it, provided it is architecture-compatible? YES.
Do PCs get messed up during botched OS installations? Sure they do. Do companies suddenly lose billions and go out of business as a result? NO.
Locking the bootloader on a device is censorship. End of story.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have no problem with unlocking of bootloaders. But I do agree with OEM stance that unlocking of bootloader may void your warranty. Same thing if you mod your engine on your car, you may void your warranty for the engine. I agree that you should be allowed to mod the phone, just that htc shouldn't replace it when you screw it up. I think htcdev is about as balanced as we are going to get on it.

Write protection thread

So I'm making this thread because it appears that there are now 2 exploits able to root the moto devices, idk about you but I don't feel safe sending money to a guy all the way over to china just to get root, so I'm bringing attention to all devs to try and create an exploit to disable write protection. With geohots towelroot it will work on 4.4.3 and below but only if write protection is disabled. Who knows, maybe someone could offer geohot a challenge to do it. :fingers-crossed:

But the purpose of "sending money to a guy all the way over to china" isn't to just root, it's to unlock the bootloader of your device which makes everything possible.
If that's not worth $45 - considering the cost of the Moto X or any of the X8 chipset based devices and considering you have a device that is unlockable as that guy can't do anything for devices made in 2013 now - then what's the point?
It's not like just one person did that and was posting about it being successful, hundreds of people have used that service, including me for a Droid MAXX I owned earlier this year, and everything went off without a single hitch. This isn't some fly-by-night scam, the guy has access to the necessary info for 2014 devices so, it's most definitely worth the $45 considering what you get in return: a device you can pretty much do anything you damned well please with.
Seem like people would have figured that out by now...

I sent him money in hopes that he would have my code. Because that would mean that for the rest of the life of my X I would always have root. He unfortunately did not have my code and immediately issued a paypal dispute for the charges and I got all my money back. Paypal is very reliable for this transaction and if you think that this man has been in business for a while now just to specifically scam you out of $45 then I think you have bigger problems.

To add....dreaming about disabling write protection on 4.4.2 and up is probably wasted energy. The one person who may have been able to figure it out won't be trying to, or can't.....I doubt its ever happening.
Three choices are available:
1. Keep waiting. Eventually pass the phone on to your great grandchildren... So they can continue the wait.
2. Unlock with Chinese fellow, if your phone is on the list. Not one report of him being shady so far.
3. Sell the phone and buy a dev edition, or any model that can be unlocked....with the radio bands you need.
Oh.....a forth option, crack the write protection yourself...and be a hero to many xda'ers.
Good luck, whatever option you pick. ?

One other problem we won't get 4.4.3 its been scraped. Were getting 4.4.4 and that is closing the vulnerability that was found. So I guess its China or nothing at this point. By the way I unlocked very early on and it worked great.
Sent from my XT1080 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

br0adband said:
But the purpose of "sending money to a guy all the way over to china" isn't to just root, it's to unlock the bootloader of your device which makes everything possible.
If that's not worth $45 - considering the cost of the Moto X or any of the X8 chipset based devices and considering you have a device that is unlockable as that guy can't do anything for devices made in 2013 now - then what's the point?
It's not like just one person did that and was posting about it being successful, hundreds of people have used that service, including me for a Droid MAXX I owned earlier this year, and everything went off without a single hitch. This isn't some fly-by-night scam, the guy has access to the necessary info for 2014 devices so, it's most definitely worth the $45 considering what you get in return: a device you can pretty much do anything you damned well please with.
Seem like people would have figured that out by now...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If someone can find a hardware exploit to disable write protection then nobody would have to pay $45 to unlock their bootloaders and instal root. I do understand you can also install custom roms and recovery's, but for some of us we don't want to spend anymore money, however if the chinaman offered a 45 dollar simunlock then I'd pay for that, the resale would be higher with it.

super65man said:
If someone can find a hardware exploit to disable write protection then nobody would have to pay $45 to unlock their bootloaders and instal root. I do understand you can also install custom roms and recovery's, but for some of us we don't want to spend anymore money, however if the chinaman offered a 45 dollar simunlock then I'd pay for that, the resale would be higher with it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, there are many web sites selling SIM UNlock codes for the X (as long as you don't have Sprint or Republic Wireless). Just pick one, and most of them are cheaper than $45. Due to the "low cost" of SIM unlock, and how easy it is to get done, I can't see it raising the resale value.
Unlocking, or an unlocked bootloader, is more valuable as it allows you to root no matter what ROM or update is on there, without having to wait for vulnerabilities to be found and processes exploiting them to be produced.
The one vulnerability that was able to be expoited to disable write protection, was patched in 4.4.2 and up ROMs. We were lucky that it was left unpatched for that long. (4.2.2, 4.2.2 w/camera update, and 4.4). It does not appear that Beaups, Jcase or the other top devs are working on anything new for 4.4.2.
With 4.4.3 coming, and now 4.4.4, is it really worth their time until things stabilize again? I mean, why bring out a write protection disable exploit for 4.4.2, only to see 4.4.3 or 4.4.4 patch it?
I applaud you for trying to bring focus, but that is what the Bounty threads were for. And I can assure you that Jcase, Beaups, Geohot, and the others know about the write protection issue on the X.
In the past I said I didn't expect to see future root exploits without unlocked bootloader, but Jcase came out with PIE. SO I could be wrong about expecting to NOT see a future write protect disable on locked bootloaders.
BUT I still agree with options 2, 3 and 4 @KJ suggested in Post #4

here is something that helped a similar situation on my Motorola Razr M:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2524277
perhaps the answer could lie in this file or the build.prop (or would that be too simple?)

Does anyone know where the code of the write protection resides? Seems it's not in the kernel.

zxz0O0 said:
Does anyone know where the code of the write protection resides? Seems it's not in the kernel.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Related to bootloader would be my guess, since unlocking the bootloader disables it. ?

KJ said:
Related to bootloader would be my guess, since unlocking the bootloader disables it. ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think that also applies to Xperia phones and still there it's in the kernel. Also I was thinking that bootloader was not kept in memory.

zxz0O0 said:
Does anyone know where the code of the write protection resides? Seems it's not in the kernel.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The write protection appears to be enabled BEFORE the OS loads.
Based on comments from Beaups in the MotoWpNoMo thread when he found out that 4.4.2 change the GPT.BIN, Motoboot/Bootloader, and something in the partitioning, I would assume its in one of those. See post 301 through 307...

Alls I knows is 4.2.2 had a vulnerability, it got exploited, so write protection could be hacked and turned off. Then that vulnerability was closed and no one has hacked it since....not even the best and brightest.
So just saying I think holding on to another exploit hope is futile. Doubt its ever happening.
Just being realistic here.

I doubt it's something as simple as in the GPT schema, otherwise someone would have already patched it.

I highly doubt it's this simple but in init.rc there's
Code:
on post-fs
# once everything is setup, no need to modify /
mount rootfs rootfs / ro remount
I have a dev phone, but if someone with locked BL using PIE or something wants to try
Code:
mount rootfs rootfs / rw remount
in a terminal and then edit that line out of init.rc
It'll more than likely just reboot when you do the remount.

What happens if you do mount -o remount,rw /system? Do you get permission denied or reboot? Sorry, never owned a HTC phone.

zxz0O0 said:
What happens if you do mount -o remount,rw /system? Do you get permission denied or reboot? Sorry, never owned a HTC phone.
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Click to collapse
HTC phone? Sorry, we're talking about the Motorola Moto X, not an HTC phone.

Take a look at this thread http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2795129 probably with GeoHot's towelroot there's still hope for a working root exploit, but we need a little help.
Swifted from my Moto G with TapaTalk

Azarielz said:
Take a look at this thread http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2795129 probably with GeoHot's towelroot there's still hope for a working root exploit, but we need a little help.
Swifted from my Moto G with TapaTalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That sparks my interest a lot!

New root exploit is increasingly unlikely

Quite a few of us xda lurkers are itching to get root on our devices, but the DRM-debacle of the Sony phones has made many, including myself, hold off with unlocking the bootloader. Instead, we've put our hopes to new exploits that would allow root while keeping the bootloader locked, thus making it possible to keep all DRM functions in place, and also to restore the phone to factory conditions with the bootloader intact.
However, as Chainfire explains in the post below, the chances of any such exploit surfacing are slim. He says it's more important than ever to buy phones with unlocked bootloaders if we want to keep root.
Sadly, I'm afraid he's right and that the official bootloader unlock is the only way we'll be able to get root in the foreseeable future.
What do you guys think? Worth it or not?
Check out Chainfire's post on G+:
https://plus.google.com/113517319477420052449/posts/VxjfYJnZAXP

Fruktsallad said:
Quite a few of us xda lurkers are itching to get root on our devices, but the DRM-debacle of the Sony phones has made many, including myself, hold off with unlocking the bootloader. Instead, we've put our hopes to new exploits that would allow root while keeping the bootloader locked, thus making it possible to keep all DRM functions in place, and also to restore the phone to factory conditions with the bootloader intact.
However, as Chainfire explains in the post below, the chances of any such exploit surfacing are slim. He says it's more important than ever to buy phones with unlocked bootloaders if we want to keep root.
Sadly, I'm afraid he's right and that the official bootloader unlock is the only way we'll be able to get root in the foreseeable future.
What do you guys think? Worth it or not?
Check out Chainfire's post on G+:
https://plus.google.com/113517319477420052449/posts/VxjfYJnZAXP
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Click to collapse
Well it's @Chainfire talking, who are we to doubt him? I'm only waiting for a way to backup my TA-Partition (DRM keys), I wouldn't mind losing some features. Even tho I must agree that losing some camera quality is really annoying, but Android is pretty open source so I have no doubts that people will find something to reverse the algorithm loss or create their own.
And also when the occasion occurs that I need to send my device out for repair, that they don't refuse it due to an unlocked BL

I'm sure that's true in the long run, just not sure if it's true now.
It's economics. The security bugs are going to get fewer and further between, but they will arguably never be eradicated. You should expect it to take longer and longer to find new exploits, but I wouldn't bet a wooden nickel that there are no exploits left.
More likely, we will reach a point where the cost of finding an exploit is so great that they're no longer worth looking for to a critical mass of hackers.
On the bright side, the implementations get better all the time, and I see very little about my z3c that I would like to change if only I had root.
And I do think Sony should find a way to make the early rooters whole again. I feel terrible that so many people's $500 phones have been seriously degraded by a completely reversible software change.

Dsteppa said:
Well it's @Chainfire talking, who are we to doubt him? I'm only waiting for a way to backup my TA-Partition (DRM keys), I wouldn't mind losing some features. Even tho I must agree that losing some camera quality is really annoying, but Android is pretty open source so I have no doubts that people will find something to reverse the algorithm loss or create their own.
And also when the occasion occurs that I need to send my device out for repair, that they don't refuse it due to an unlocked BL
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True, but as I'm sure you're aware, backing up the TA-partition requires said exploit to be found in order to get root. So I think it'll be a looong wait. [emoji20]

He still thinks root will be achievable in the early editions of Android L so I think it's safe to say root will arrive for this device under a locked bootloader, it will just take a bit longer than it has in the past to find an exploit.
Sent from my D5803 using XDA Free mobile app

This is really disheartening. It's kinda ironic that Sony, who in recent times has been raised in its support of the developer community of its phones, and even won XDA's OEM of the Year, has such a downer in its phones.

I know this doesn't work for everyone but I'm hopeful that the new AOSP L camera API will mean that AOSP custom roms have some native low light enhancement processing. Maybe...

Chances improve with new software so I t could happen with android L too.

pricey2009 said:
He still thinks root will be achievable in the early editions of Android L so I think it's safe to say root will arrive for this device under a locked bootloader, it will just take a bit longer than it has in the past to find an exploit.
Sent from my D5803 using XDA Free mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yup, but we're still looking at about five months wait considering Sony won't ship L until Q1 2015. Even then, there's no guarantee an exploit will be found.
Maybe I'm overly pessimistic about this. I do, however, have high hopes for the new camera API's regarding camera quality and post processing.
Personally, every day without root is a little painful, so I'll never last all those months. As soon as there are custom kernels available and a ROM like CM or PA, my locked bootloader goes bye-bye.

Chainfire is talking about the su daemon and problems running it (on Android L). He does not say anything about a root exploit. It seems you misunderstood his post.

zxz0O0 said:
Chainfire is talking about the su daemon and problems running it (on Android L). He does not say anything about a root exploit. It seems you misunderstood his post.
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Click to collapse
Let's hope Sony make or have made some little security mistakes.. To quote his post:
" Of course, this is all dependent on OEMs implementing everything exactly right. If a certain OEM doesn't protect one of their services correctly, then we can leverage that to launch the daemon without kernel modifications. While I'm fairly certain this will be the case for a bunch of devices and firmwares, especially the earlier L firmwares, this is not something you should expect or base decisions on."
Here's hoping they have missed something.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using XDA Free mobile app

pricey2009 said:
Let's hope Sony make or have made some little security mistakes.. To quote his post:
" Of course, this is all dependent on OEMs implementing everything exactly right. If a certain OEM doesn't protect one of their services correctly, then we can leverage that to launch the daemon without kernel modifications. While I'm fairly certain this will be the case for a bunch of devices and firmwares, especially the earlier L firmwares, this is not something you should expect or base decisions on."
Here's hoping they have missed something.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using XDA Free mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Let's wait until January for the first android L release then :crying:

I've rooted two weeks ago and still enjoying the phone

zxz0O0 said:
Chainfire is talking about the su daemon and problems running it (on Android L). He does not say anything about a root exploit. It seems you misunderstood his post.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This.
The post was mainly aimed at Android L...

Google hired one of our very own (Towelroot) and iPhone's pioneering hacker so it's going to get tougher. I hope they hired him only for NSA purposes.

That move by sony is just stupid. if they wanted to protect their code, why not store it into the camera firmware (referring to the camera algorithms)?
Why do they have to kill Miracast?
Obviously that is the other side of the medal. investments on security = far less exploits available. we are gonna wait a while, but as a developer I really really miss Xposed. Each time I look at my G2 a little tear drops.
No way I'm gonna root loosing DRM keys. The camera is already weak (to be honest I would be used a word beginning in shi but let's be polite) so I'm not in any way gonna make it worse.

zxz0O0 said:
Chainfire is talking about the su daemon and problems running it (on Android L). He does not say anything about a root exploit. It seems you misunderstood his post.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes he does:
"As stated above, it seems for now that modifications to the kernel package are required to have root, we cannot attain it with only modifications to the system partition.
Combine that with a locked bootloader (and optionally dm-verity) and a device becomes nigh unrootable - exactly as intended by the security guys.
Exploit-based roots are already harder to do thanks to SELinux, and now because of the kernel requirements for persistent root, these exploits will need to be run at every boot. Exploits that make the system unstable (as many do) are thus out as well."
Then he goes on to say:
"Of course, this is all dependent on OEMs implementing everything exactly right. If a certain OEM doesn't protect one of their services correctly, then we can leverage that to launch the daemon without kernel modifications. While I'm fairly certain this will be the case for a bunch of devices and firmwares, especially the earlier L firmwares, this is not something you should expect or base decisions on. It is now thus more important than ever to buy unlocked devices if you want root.
It might also mean that every firmware update will require re-rooting, and OTA survival mode will be broken. For many (but far from all) devices we can probably automate patching the kernel package right in the SuperSU installer ZIP. We can try to keep it relatively easy, but updating stock firmwares while maintaining root is probably not going to work as easy and fast as it did until now."

zxz0O0 said:
Chainfire is talking about the su daemon and problems running it (on Android L). He does not say anything about a root exploit. It seems you misunderstood his post.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How can anything be a root exploit if it doesn't result in a functional su? I read Chainfire's post as Google making it impossible to elevate privileges from within Android, necessitating kernel level exploits which in turn will require unlocked bootloaders to install.
Once we get to where the bootloader has to be unlocked it's really not a root exploit anymore, is it?

michyprima said:
Why do they have to kill Miracast?
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Click to collapse
Because they don't want to support Miracast without HDCP. Remember that Sony is also a content provider. While that may be as annoying for a normal user as the degradation in camera quality, their approach actually still is developer friendly. Request a code - get full control over the device, at the cost of losing some functionality (software functionality). It's as simple as that. CM and other roms work perfectly fine on Xperia devices, and if you want to implement an equivalent camera algorithm, you're free to do so.

Iruwen said:
Because they don't want to support Miracast without HDCP. Remember that Sony is also a content provider. While that may be as annoying for a normal user as the degradation in camera quality, their approach actually still is developer friendly. Request a code - get full control over the device, at the cost of losing some functionality (software functionality). It's as simple as that. CM and other roms work perfectly fine on Xperia devices, and if you want to implement an equivalent camera algorithm, you're free to do so.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can only agree to that. If you buy a Sony phone to act like a Sony phone (most people do!) then one should leave it as it has been delivered by Sony. If you can't agree to how it is, Sony gives you the option to unlock the BL and do whatever you want to do with the HW, but don't expect it to work/act as before. Personally, I have no issues with that at all.
On a different note, Linux/Android is comprised of x million lines of code. There're bugs in this code, there're bugs in the compiler, bugs in Java, bugs even in the Hardware etc. etc. There's no reason to believe (or fear) that Linux/Android would ever be perfect or non-vulnerable. Root will come, it's only a matter of effort and time...

Root possible?

I know its too early but what do you guys this about rooting/custom roms for venice?
BB ceo said (something along the lines) that they will only make an android device if it is secured enough. WOuld that mean a locked bootloader etc? Moreover, it is using a much more secure kernel (http://berryflow.com/2015/09/blackberrys-android-slider-using-hardened-linux-kernel/) and i've read that some beginner's tools (eg enabling developer's options, sideloading apps etc) are blocked.
So what do you guys think? As for me, I believe in this community and i know one way or another, we will be able to install our favourite custom roms/apps on venice. Although I dont know if it would happen 2 days after launch of 2 years after the device reaches the market!
Btw cant wait for the device! I hope blackberry becomes a force again after this phone. I'll buy it the day it's bootloader gets unlocked + root is acheived

Do you have a source on the Priv blocking sideloaded apps? That would be very unfortunate. Locked bootloader is a given but I would still like to be able to install my favorite apks.

I can't see things like developer options/USB debugging etc being outright blocked. That just seems like a great way to alienate the majority of the userbase that a device like this is targeted towards.

This is my main concern... I want this phone, badly. But after having a G4, having to wait for root and still not having any decent roms I won't get the Priv if it doesn't at least get root. It's stock-ish android so I can deal with lack of roms but no root, no sale.
Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk

No idea why anyone here thinks they would do that. Even on BB10 devices installing apks is allowed - and they sure wouldn´t do otherwise on an Android device - that would be crazy.
and yes, bl will be locked and encrypted - root - well that will be something to wait for.

:good:

Bootloader WILL be locked, that's a no brainer. But locking out sideloading, developer options is not possible without TOTALLY killing interest and sales. Blackberry desperately needs Priv to succeed. This is their last chance to avoid becoming the next Nokia. So no, we will have at least sideloading available. Honestly, it doesn't matter if they lock out all these essential features, if they release at least the kernel source and device tree day-and-date with the phone. If you have these, we're better off building a CM 12 (or 13:fingers-crossed ROM for the Priv.

Zer0.exe said:
Do you have a source on the Priv blocking sideloaded apps? That would be very unfortunate. Locked bootloader is a given but I would still like to be able to install my favorite apks.
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sorry I cant give you a source. I read this on reditt or a blog post
MSF Jarvis said:
Bootloader WILL be locked, that's a no brainer. But locking out sideloading, developer options is not possible without TOTALLY killing interest and sales. Blackberry desperately needs Priv to succeed. This is their last chance to avoid becoming the next Nokia. So no, we will have at least sideloading available. Honestly, it doesn't matter if they lock out all these essential features, if they release at least the kernel source and device tree day-and-date with the phone. If you have these, we're better off building a CM 12 (or 13:fingers-crossed ROM for the Priv.
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Click to collapse
hmm. So do you think it would be possible to unlock the bootloader or it can never be unlocked?
btw slightly offtopic, but is there any phone which has a completely locked bootloader (ie has never been unlocked)?

Welp a leaked pic about the security settings confirms developer options can be enabled, so sideloaded apps is probably a go to. False alarm, peeps!

Zer0.exe said:
Welp a leaked pic about the security settings confirms developer options can be enabled, so sideloaded apps is probably a go to. False alarm, peeps!
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Link?

HyperM3 said:
Link?
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http://n4bb.com/blackberry-priv-64-bit-4k-video-confirmed/
The beautiful glass weave is also shown off. I love it on my Z30.

pluto7443 said:
http://n4bb.com/blackberry-priv-64-bit-4k-video-confirmed/
The beautiful glass weave is also shown off. I love it on my Z30.
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Thanks for that! I am really looking forward to this device. Im all or nothing on this with my Nexus 6 right now.

rollerdyke44 said:
hmm. So do you think it would be possible to unlock the bootloader or it can never be unlocked?
btw slightly offtopic, but is there any phone which has a completely locked bootloader (ie has never been unlocked)?
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there must be some poor phone that didn't get a bootloader unlock, and I firmly believe the Priv is gonna join their ranks as soon as it gets released.
Sent from a Cool Phone stuck with crappy KingUser

rollerdyke44 said:
btw slightly offtopic, but is there any phone which has a completely locked bootloader (ie has never been unlocked)?
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Look at the recent crop of AT&T and Verizon Samsung phones. Their bootloader are locked up tighter then...... Well we will just say their locked down [emoji1]
Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

http://i-cdn.phonearena.com/images/...aked-hands-on-photos-plus-official-images.jpg In fact, this image outright confirms that you can sideload/ use developer options.

I wouldn't count on too much. The developer options could have easily been changed and some removed. As BB main selling point is security I expect this device to be one of the harder ones to crack.
As for the bootloader questions. Yes there have been a few that were uncrackable, a dirty hack to by pass has worked on some.

I imagine root is just a matter of time. Unless they lock the system partition, which other manufacturers have done in the past (Looking at you HTC). Even so, it has been done and s-on/off has been cracked before. Alternatives to locking include e-fuses, like in legacy motorola devices.
Bootloaders on the other hand, we're probably going to have to get some concrete evidence. It is most likely locked in my personal opinion.
This is all just speculation. Hopefully Blackberry can find a good balance.

htko89 said:
I imagine root is just a matter of time. Unless they lock the system partition, which other manufacturers have done in the past (Looking at you HTC). Even so, it has been done and s-on/off has been cracked before. Alternatives to locking include e-fuses, like in legacy motorola devices.
Bootloaders on the other hand, we're probably going to have to get some concrete evidence. It is most likely locked in my personal opinion.
This is all just speculation. Hopefully Blackberry can find a good balance.
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Click to collapse
The efuze us still used in many devices and if I know blackberry they will have it check against its servers for security. Once it detects root it will most likely disable the device. Or most of the functions that use BB servers. Remember everything is routed through Blackberrys servers in Canada so if their servers go do so does the device.

zelendel said:
Once it detects root it will most likely disable the device. Or most of the functions that use BB servers.
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I would be completely fine with them locking out the BB services when root is discovered. But locking down the hardware would be overstepping their bounds. It's our hardware, not theirs. I know that doesn't mean they couldn't still do it, I just think it would be a jerk move.
It would be like if Microsoft bricked xbox machines that have been modded. They don't, they just ban you from XBox Live if they detect it. I think it should be the same approach.

Yes but even MS has locked the bootloader on Many of their 32 bit machines now. Also I have a link that you might want to read where is passed then modding our devices at all will become illegal.
https://www.eff.org/issues/tpp

Unlock bootloader for Fire HD 8 6th Gen

I just got couple Fire HD 8 6th Gen tablets for my kids, and thought I'd flash them right away with a custom ROM. I was quite disappointed with the absence of development for this tablet.
Anyway, as far as I understood from reading the forum (and I just started, sorry if I missed something), the first problem is the factory locked bootloader. And it sounded from a post I read like it's something that cannot be solved: http://forum.xda-developers.com/hd8-hd10/help/rooted-boot-img-t3508316 (bootloader locked discussion starts at the bottom of the 1st page).
Well, I am definitely not a pro in mobile development (I work on server side software for living), so I beg your pardon if I'm wrong. But unlocking a locked bootloader is not something unheard of.
So, I was wondering, if it could be done for other device, then probably it can be done for this one too. And the fact that it has not been done yet could mean for example, that this device is somehow different. Or, it could mean that there was no one yet with enough expertise AND the device at hand to do it.
So if the latter is true, and it's just lack of attention from good developers. Then I guess it could be arranged to donate a device to a reputable XDA dev. A dev that would be interested in having a challenge. And a free device.
I would definitely pitch in, and if you would too, please tell. And if you know an XDA dev who has expertise to do it, please tell too, and give an example of their work.
All the above is open for discussion of course, constructive suggestions would be much appreciated.

The 7" is locked but got a lot of love and is now rootable. If the guys at Kingroot that interest, we might see something but otherwise not. Until rooted, not much point porting a ROM.

So I suppose the proposition is to send a device to KingRoot guys?

...in China.....

I was wondering how the issue of locked encrypted bootloader was solved for other Fire devices. Here's how it's been done for Fire HDX 8.9: http://forum.xda-developers.com/kin...bootloader-unlock-procedure-software-t3030281 . I suppose the bug used in this method has been fixed already, this is just a demonstration that it can be done.

That was cracked using a crypto bug. Basically exploiting a weakness in the RSA encryption of the bootloader's signature. It's incredibly rare for encryption to get totally broken like this, and easily patched with system updates. Kinda got lucky on that one. Best thing to hope for first is root, then try to find a way around the bootloader's protection. These keep getting exponentially harder, and there's a lot more money on developing protections than breaking them.

I received one as a gift. I will probably never use it unless its opened up.... i mean im appreciative that someone gifted me it. But I become really upset by the fact that samsung and amazon... all the big players really lock up their bootloader and force me onto some ecosystem when i know the tablet or device could work just so much better. Anyways, if there is anything i can contribute let me know...

Download the Kingroot App then run it. After running it once or twice it will ask you to send a device request. Root may eventually be achieved for the 6th Gen but that may be as far as it gets. Very unlikely that the bootloader will be unlocked. Amazon actively puts a lot of effort into keeping them locked. Its been a while since any newer version of these Fire bootloaders have been unlocked. The HD 8 5th Gen is about 2 years old and the only thing thats been achieved was root and that was done by Kingroot..... But hey nothings impossible....