Get a Moto X 2014.
The Nexus 6 is built by Motorola and its basically just a blown up version of the Moto X 2014.
What's the differences between the 2 phones?
Moto X 2014 -
5.2" Display
Snapdragon 801
2gb Ram
1080p (423ppi)
2300 mAh Battery
5.08 oz (144 g)
Nexus 6 -
6" Display
Snapdragon 805
3gb Ram
1440p (493ppi)
3220 mAh Battery
Optical Image Stabilization (OIS)
6.49 oz (184 g)
Everything else (from what I understand) is the same!
Yes you're not getting the exact same specs shrunk down into the smaller Moto X but it's more in-line with what a lot of people think a "nexus device should be".
Moderate Specs, Moderate pricing and Stock android.
Here's a size comparison if anyone is interested:
View attachment 2986909
Who has money to buy a moto x 2014, buys a n5 and keeps some money. Moto X does not worth the money.
My op.
N5 should satisfy everyone that wants price/quality, and don't want bricks.
N5
eAsyy said:
Who has money to buy a moto x 2014, buys a n5 and keeps some money. Moto X does not worth the money.
My op.
N5 should satisfy everyone that wants price/quality, and don't want bricks.
N5
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The N5 is a great device no doubt but the Moto X follows the exact same design language as the N6 which imo is an overall a more premium feeling device with better specs
Sent from my LG G2 running CloudyG3 ?
The biggest problem with the Motorola Moto X 2014 is the battery size.
If it was 3000 mAh, it would be a worthy alternative.
Specs wise, Snapdragon 805 and 800 and 801 are pretty simmilar ,unless you playe games a lot.
eAsyy said:
Who has money to buy a moto x 2014, buys a n5 and keeps some money. Moto X does not worth the money.
My op.
N5 should satisfy everyone that wants price/quality, and don't want bricks.
N5
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed, there's a larger gap here in Canada between the Nexus 5 at $350 and Moto X at $600 than the X and Nexus 6 which is $750.
I'm unsure of American Moto X prices.
Droid Turbo will be released tomorrow. This should satisfy many of those who want same specs as N6 on a smaller phone.
dtroup64 said:
Droid Turbo will be released tomorrow. This should satisfy many of those who want same specs as N6 on a smaller phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In the US...
EddyOS said:
In the US...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And only on Verizon. And it will have a locked bootloader.
For you GSM guys though, it went through the FCC not too long ago with GSM bands. Rumor is that it will be released as the "Moto X Play" or "Moto Maxx" , two names that Motorola trademarked this year.
The only glaring difference here is the Nexus is a developer device, and supported directly by Google.
IMO get the Nexus 6, or Nexus 5 if the 6 is too big. The only carrier left out in that case is VZW, but that's not something new.
shadowcore said:
The biggest problem with the Motorola Moto X 2014 is the battery size.
If it was 3000 mAh, it would be a worthy alternative.
Specs wise, Snapdragon 805 and 800 and 801 are pretty simmilar ,unless you playe games a lot.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not really that big a problem. It lasts longer than the N5 did. In almost every way is the x better than the n5.
floepie said:
Not really that big a problem. It lasts longer than the N5 did. In almost every way is the x better than the n5.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not really my point.
It may last longer than the N5, but it still does not counter my argument that its 2300 mAh looks unimpressive. My phone from 2012 had 2150 mAh.
Regarddless of efficient it might be, the screen will consume battery no matter how efficient the system runs, and thats why I think that 2300 mAh is too little.
floepie said:
Not really that big a problem. It lasts longer than the N5 did. In almost every way is the x better than the n5.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My limited experience with the X says different. But maybe that limited experience is why. Also, many reviews don't put the battery life any better than on the N5. Some even less. This is personal preference but the screen on the N5 is much much nicer than the amoled panel on the X2014
shadowcore said:
Not really my point.
It may last longer than the N5, but it still does not counter my argument that its 2300 mAh looks unimpressive. My phone from 2012 had 2150 mAh.
Regarddless of efficient it might be, the screen will consume battery no matter how efficient the system runs, and thats why I think that 2300 mAh is too little.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why does it matter if something looks unimpressive when it performs better? Real world performance is what matters in the end...
Sent from my LG G2 running CloudyG3 ?
jbdan said:
My limited experience with the X says different. But maybe that limited experience is why. Also, many reviews don't put the battery life any better than on the N5. Some even less. This is personal preference but the screen on the N5 is much much nicer than the amoled panel on the X2014
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But if you don't like Amoled then you probably weren't gonna get a N6 either? N6 and MotoX but are amoled displays
Sent from my LG G2 running CloudyG3 ?
GalaxyWhy said:
Everything else (from what I understand) is the same!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol. So, most everything about the phone is different. Gotchya
Those of you put off by the size...
What are you still doing here? This is a Nexus 6 forum. The Nexus 6 Specs are finalised and there will be no 5 inch, removeable battery, sd card slot, nexus that you were hoping for.
So why is this forum still full of people dying to have their say about how the Nexus is TOO BIG? I'm getting pretty tired of reading the same stuff over and over again. If you don't like the Nexus 6 and have no interest in purchasing one, Please leave this forum for those of us who do.
bigf00t said:
Those of you put off by the size...
What are you still doing here? This is a Nexus 6 forum. The Nexus 6 Specs are finalised and there will be no 5 inch, removeable battery, sd card slot, nexus that you were hoping for.
So why is this forum still full of people dying to have their say about how the Nexus is TOO BIG? I'm getting pretty tired of reading the same stuff over and over again. If you don't like the Nexus 6 and have no interest in purchasing one, Please leave this forum for those of us who do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
they are holding onto hope it comes with super shrinking feature that's a hidden easter egg in lollipop
bigf00t said:
Those of you put off by the size...
What are you still doing here? This is a Nexus 6 forum. The Nexus 6 Specs are finalised and there will be no 5 inch, removeable battery, sd card slot, nexus that you were hoping for.
So why is this forum still full of people dying to have their say about how the Nexus is TOO BIG? I'm getting pretty tired of reading the same stuff over and over again. If you don't like the Nexus 6 and have no interest in purchasing one, Please leave this forum for those of us who do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Perhaps those people are intrigued to see what other peoples opinions are on it?
I have always been a Nexus guy, but this year I've been disappointed by Google with the screen size. Yeah sure, some people want a big 6" screen but for practical everyday use a lot of people want something a bit smaller - between 4.5" and 5".
I took the plunge and have gone over to the dark side and got myself and iPhone 6. I love it, it does everything an average phone user wants.
It has a decent size screen that looks beautiful in all conditions. Plus there are little extra quirks like 1080p at 60FPS and slow motion video at 240FPS. TouchID in a way that nobody else has managed to beat yet.
I think realistically the Nexus 6 and Lollipop both look amazing and I will be doing my normal thing and watching these forums to see what people do with them but I just can't imagine having to use a phone that big daily.
I will happily go on record and say that I'm sure within 1 - 2 months of owning the Nexus 6 some of you will be fed up with how big it is.
Wow. Thanks for letting me know I'll be fed up with my TOO BIG Nexus. Thanks for proving my point.
I am on the fence about it. I think the hardware improvements for the Nexus 6 are worth it's price, they are all the things I want:
-OIS camera with better sensor
-big enough battery for 5hours screen on time (not possible with my Moto X 2014 unless I use it conservatively)
-wireless charging
-stereo speakers
-all US carriers support
I might hold of preordering the Nexus 6 like I thought I would and wait for some of the reviews, but I know eventually I will likely buy one.
I love the Moto X, but I'm not as impressed with the 2014 version as I should be because they lack the aforementioned features. I just switched to the Moto X 2013 for a couple days and I'm really happy with what it offered for the price, I feel like I could live with the 2013 version. If the 2014 X had all the hardwares features of the Nexus 6 and cost $650 as well, it probably would be better for me.
If I buy the Nexus 6, I would use it as a tablet and backup device, it definitely will not be my daily driver. So I wouldn't be fully utilizing it.
So right now there isn't yet a perfect device for me. I want a phone with Motorola features and design with flagship hardwares, but not phablet size. I guess I have to wait to see what the Moto X 2015 will be like. If it's going to be a 5.5" screen I wouldn't be happy about it (unless they manage to have almost no bezel), it would be a begrudging upgrade, in that case I would get a used Nexus 6.
Related
Looks like the Moto X may be a keeper with a 5.2" screen.
Looks very pleasant. Concerned a little bit about the battery size though
Same about the battery, big concern if this thing cant last a whole day. Should be at least a 2700mAh battery with a screen over 5 inches. Unless moto made some big changes to background software for the battery (and the L preview's project volte being a battery saver), I might just wait and see.
No . I currently own the LG G2 (having had a Moto X 2013 before). I liked how compact the old moto x was and have been disappointed with this year's flagships (HTC, LG, Samsung) for going larger but not superpowered relative to the LG G2 and Nexus 5.
The X2 is bigger in every dimension compared to the G2 (and I found that 2.8" width was my breaking point where I no longer like holding phones... why I downgraded from the LG G3 to LG G2) with a smaller battery and similiar power. The AMOLED screen will be great for battery life with notifications. The software updates seem really good and leave me more confident that post-Google Motorola won't fall off a cliff. The speakers aren't my thing. The additional mics aren't either (as I never leave my phone far from me in a crowded room. The camera looks very good as it seems like they fixed a weak area of
I think I'll be targeting slightly smaller phones for now (in the pre-SD805 days). On my fall list are the Galaxy Alpha, Sony's Z3 Compact and the Xioami Mi4.
i'm very interested in seeing the actual performance of this phone. i have high hopes for the camera and additional functionality they're claiming. all-in-all i'll have to hold it before i make my decision.
Currently a Note 2 user, I was pleased to see the size increase on the Moto X. I'm concerned abotu the battery, though. Right now I'm torn between the Note 4, LG G3, Moto X, and Nexus 6/X.
rp3 said:
No . I currently own the LG G2 (having had a Moto X 2013 before). I liked how compact the old moto x was and have been disappointed with this year's flagships (HTC, LG, Samsung) for going larger but not superpowered relative to the LG G2 and Nexus 5.
The X2 is bigger in every dimension compared to the G2 (and I found that 2.8" width was my breaking point where I no longer like holding phones... why I downgraded from the LG G3 to LG G2) with a smaller battery and similiar power. The AMOLED screen will be great for battery life with notifications. The software updates seem really good and leave me more confident that post-Google Motorola won't fall off a cliff. The speakers aren't my thing. The additional mics aren't either (as I never leave my phone far from me in a crowded room. The camera looks very good as it seems like they fixed a weak area of
I think I'll be targeting slightly smaller phones for now (in the pre-SD805 days). On my fall list are the Galaxy Alpha, Sony's Z3 Compact and the Xioami Mi4.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
According to Joshua from Anandtech even though the Moto X is the same in dimensions to the S5, the Moto X is still much easier to use with one hand because of its design and is similar to use with one hand to LG G2. So you should give it a try, maybe you'll like the size.
Maybe?
Very disappointed to see the increased size, though it was inevitable.. I have been looking forward to this phone for months because of the innovation and engineering that went into the original moto x. Using separate processing elements for different parts of the phone is, I think, the absolute key to the battery life/functionality equation. I've been waiting for a company to split the UI and external features (screen, mics, cameras, etc..) off from the core phone functionality to save juice for a long time. When the screen is off, there should be little need to run the main processor, and therefore it should be kinder to its battery. I do need to know if this unit will have a replaceable battery, unfortunately its a complete no-go for me if it doesn't..
Hoping for the best!:good:
darkgoon3r96 said:
According to Joshua from Anandtech even though the Moto X is the same in dimensions to the S5, the Moto X is still much easier to use with one hand because of its design and is similar to use with one hand to LG G2. So you should give it a try, maybe you'll like the size.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks that's useful to hear as that's quite a key requirement for me with a phone.
I was thinking about replacing my rooted GS4 with this one but I wonder whats coming down the pipe from the Nexus and LG
If it comes to Sprint, I will most likely get it.
Sent from my XT1056 using Tapatalk
If there is a Dev edition then I'll buy immediately.
MichaelMcEntire said:
If it comes to Sprint, I will most likely get it.
Sent from my XT1056 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://www.androidcentral.com/moto-x-specs-2014 XT1092 unlocked version, including sprint
I like the size increase. I would rather it stayed at 5 inch screen instead of 5.2 but the battery size should have been bumped to 2600. Even if they are going to release a Moto Maxx version with a 3000 battery. Not sure if I will get this now or wait until the Nexus X before I ditch my VZW unlimited for greener pastures.
let us not forget about this filing:
http://www.droid-life.com/2014/07/30/moto-maxx-trademarked-by-motorola-for-new-phone/
seems like the new X might be worth the additional wait. what was the turnaround on features for the X? AT&T had exclusivity until summer '12? Then other carriers got the "plain" variants, followed by MotoMaker almost two months later. Wood backs didn't arrive for... another two months?
if there were a bigger (read: thicker) battery option for the X in the works, are we looking at Jan release?
640k said:
let us not forget about this filing:
http://www.droid-life.com/2014/07/30/moto-maxx-trademarked-by-motorola-for-new-phone/
seems like the new X might be worth the additional wait. what was the turnaround on features for the X? AT&T had exclusivity until summer '12? Then other carriers got the "plain" variants, followed by MotoMaker almost two months later. Wood backs didn't arrive for... another two months?
if there were a bigger (read: thicker) battery option for the X in the works, are we looking at Jan release?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'll probably wait to see what the next nexus phone is and then make a decision. Hopefully by then, there will be more clarification on what the Moto maXx is . I'd really like a 2014 Moto X with a larger capacity battery. For me that's the only thing it's really missing.
I don't get the battery size concern. I've never once worried about my moto x's battery running out by the end of the day. Motorola knows what they are doing.
the new X is a good 1-2mm thinner than the old one at the edges. i'd say there's room for a 4000mAh battery.
Mayze23 said:
I don't get the battery size concern. I've never once worried about my moto x's battery running out by the end of the day. Motorola knows what they are doing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's great news for you then.
Way too big for my taste, and I've become a big Moto fan since owning the X. What ever happened to all that research done to come up with the original X being the perfect size? Hope they do a blow out sale on the original X and I'll pick up a spare if the price is good. I understand the trend towards bigger phones, but all the Android manufacturers leaving behind high spec more compact models is VERY disappointing.
Do you guys think there'll be a surge of orders from Nexus users who don't want to upgrade to a phone as big as the Nexus 6?
The new Moto X is the closest to a Nexus phone now (not phablet).
I think it's more likely that they stick with the Nexus 5 and pray Google comes back down to earth next year. I can't imagine that releasing a 5.9" phone as your one and only is going to pay off.
Yeah, I think the Moto X might pick of a few Nexus users (myself included) if the next Nexus device really only offers a 6" screen. But I suspect the reasons people want a Nexus device go deeper than that. The 1st Gen. Moto X got almost no development. If you want the roms and the hacks and all that, nothing is like the Nexus (and the Moto X is far from 2nd runner up, in terms of amount of development). So the near stock rom on the Moto X is a bit of a mirage. I'm still not sure I'm ready to make the jump and lose out on the development options (as well as the increased control and potential privacy offered by something like Cyanogen, over any manufacturer maintained rom).
Also the price on the Nexus has always been at least $100 lower than what a Moto X goes for. That's going to be a big deciding factor. Nothing talks like money.
But for people who aren't into the roms and just like the stock Android experience and don't care about price so much, maybe some of them will jump ship from the Nexus.
Severely doubt a 5.92" screen... 5.2" is more likely. Otherwise, the other released and confirmed specs look good. Just depends on battery life for me.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using XDA Free mobile app
Project:Frankenphone said:
Severely doubt a 5.92" screen... 5.2" is more likely. Otherwise, the other released and confirmed specs look good. Just depends on battery life for me.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using XDA Free mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Literally everything is pointing to a 5.9" screen. No one is even acknowledging that a 5.2" device is even in the works any more. More likely the 5.2" phone everyone was talking about was the Droid Turbo.
Are the Nexus 5 and Moto X using the same size sim?
EDIT: Nope. Curses.
Yea cause I'm most likely one of them. I think the better speakers is what I want most. Weak speakers is the only thing I don't like about the Nexus
I hope I don't offend some people, but it seems a sizable percentage of Nexus people look down on the Moto X because they think it's an overpriced stock Android phone and think it cost too much. This is also true with OPO users. They think just because a phone use stock Android it automatically worth less. They don't take in consideration the difference in hardware design and add-on features. I just think installing CM on the X just take away all the great things about it.
eksasol said:
I hope I don't offend some people, but it seems a sizable percentage of Nexus people look down on the Moto X because they think it's an overpriced stock Android phone and think it cost too much. This is also true with OPO users. They think just because a phone use stock Android it automatically worth less. They don't take in consideration the difference in hardware design and add-on features. I just think installing CM on the X just take away all the great things about it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was a Nexus 4 user, and why I got the Moto X is because my n4 was dying on me. Also, it's a nice phone, and the added hardware and software tweaks is worth enough for the price imo. I just want a clean stock experience, and that is why I like both the Nexus and Moto X
sent from my Moto X (2014)
Nexus user here - owned every Nexus phone since the original. I've picked up a Moto X simply because this year's Nexus is too large. But I agree with the analysis here - the X is a good substitute, but it isn't quite the same thing and I hope we won't see any negatives from that. If we don't get L pronto I will be complaining all over Twitter :crying:
I bought the nexus 5 first and the moto x after but sold my nexus 5 and used the moto x exclusively. My wife got a new iphone so now i'm using her nexus 5.
Things i like since moving to the Nexus 5
larger crisper screen.
snappier performance (very noticable) whether in games, browsing, and using google now voice commands, everything just comes quicker and faster.
willingness to take more pictures because it has a better camera
Things i REALLY miss from the moto X
Active display. LED light from N5 doesn't cut it for me anymore
Touchless controls. I can't wake my phone from sleep. I don't use it much but when I want to I can't with the N5
--mics Moto's mics are awesome. I don't have to raise my voice like I do with the N5 when using the OK google command.
* on the N5 i have the google voice detection turned on for all screens and it drains the battery a little more. When plugged in, i leave the screen on so I have somewhat of touchless control.
Speaker - The moto's speaker is super loud compared to the N5.
Moto Assist - I use "AGENT" for the N5 but it's just not the same. The text reading and replying is very similar but with the Moto's mics the experience is better on the moto, but agent works very well as an alternative. Incoming calls aren't read out loud to you in Agent but they are in Moto Assist. AGENT relies on connecting to a trusted device in order for drive mode to come on while moto assist is able to detect when you're driving even w/o connecting to the trusted bluetooth device.
Battery life - i consistently get an hour more of SOT time with the moto over the N5 with just about the exact same type of usage.
There are a few other quirks between the two but these are the major ones for me.
The Moto X 2014 seems to blend both of these phones together and that's why I'm really wanting it, despite the battery life complaints. If it's equal to or greater to the moto x 2013 I'll probably get it. ESPECIALLY if the moto nexus doesn't have the moto tweaks. I doubt it does but i'm holding onto that small sliver of hope it does. These moto enhancements are very very very usual and i wish Google would bake these into Android but then Moto wouldn't be as unique any longer.
biggiestuff said:
Things i REALLY miss from the moto X
Active display. LED light from N5 doesn't cut it for me anymore
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dynamic Notifications is a nice substitute to use on the N5.
The N6/X at 5.9" is too big.
My take on it is that Motorola provides the nearest to Nexus experience (aside from GPE editions), with some extras in the sensors/software. The new Moto X is of the same hardware generation as the Nexus 5, so I think most will stick with the 5 unless they want a larger phone, and those will go to the 6 (which is about 1/2 generation newer if we believe the Snapdragon 805 [I almost called it a dragonball - now that will show my age in the mobile chip world] rumor). The phone jumpers will end up trying both the X and the 6, and may end up back at the 5.
I've been scratching my head between a Nexus 5 and Moto X to replace my work-supplied blackberry (company started to support Android in August) and think I am about to pull the trigger on the X. I thought about the M8 GPE, but holding both the new X and the M8 yesterday, the X definitely won out in-hand.
bostonirishguy13 said:
Dynamic Notifications is a nice substitute to use on the N5.
I have an N5, OPO and Moto X 2014. The N6/X at 5.9" is too big.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's actually has some better features but it was ugly to look at from an angle since the n5 doesn't have the best viewing angles. Plus the turn screen on when pulling out of the pocket didn't work as well as the moto. Another feature I really like. Saves that power button.
Sent from my XT1053 using Tapatalk
biggiestuff said:
It's actually has some better features but it was ugly to look at from an angle since the n5 doesn't have the best viewing angles. Plus the turn screen on when pulling out of the pocket didn't work as well as the moto. Another feature I really like. Saves that power button.
Sent from my XT1053 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Also, the battery drain will be a little bit more since the n5 screen is LCD. Having an active display like feature is made for amoled screens if you want to conserve battery
sent from my Nexus 7
I'm considering the Moto X but I am waiting to see if a root method (an prefereably an easy way to unlock the bootloader like the first gen Moto X) appears for the non-pure edition devices. If that doesn't happen by January, I may just have to rock a stupidly huge device. Being able to root and customize/backup/automate to my heart's desire is the most important feature of a phone to me. Second is stock Android and fast updates (so obviously the Moto X meets that).
For those of us on Verizon who have suffered through the Galaxy Nexus' shortcomings (late / no updates) and the fact that the N4 and N5 weren't available on VZW. ---- the new MOTO X is really the only reasonable choice. Just ordered mine on Sunday to replace my ancient Galaxy Nexus. I'm hoping it is "pure enough". I do need someone to gain root though....
tim k said:
For those of us on Verizon who have suffered through the Galaxy Nexus' shortcomings (late / no updates) and the fact that the N4 and N5 weren't available on VZW. ---- the new MOTO X is really the only reasonable choice. Just ordered mine on Sunday to replace my ancient Galaxy Nexus. I'm hoping it is "pure enough". I do need someone to gain root though....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
wow you're still rocking it? You're a glutton for punishment.
tim k said:
For those of us on Verizon who have suffered through the Galaxy Nexus' shortcomings (late / no updates) and the fact that the N4 and N5 weren't available on VZW. ---- the new MOTO X is really the only reasonable choice. Just ordered mine on Sunday to replace my ancient Galaxy Nexus. I'm hoping it is "pure enough". I do need someone to gain root though....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Even after the most recent GPU update lol I still own mine and play with it occasionally
biggiestuff said:
wow you're still rocking it? You're a glutton for punishment.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know. Almost 3yrs at this point. But what was I gonna do? We have unlimited data on our two phones, and get a nice discount through my wife's work. And she travels in places like Kentucky and West Virginia so the Verizon coverage is a big deal. If it was just me I would've switched to T-Mobile already. So, considering that....what could I do but keep the Galaxy Nexus? I couldn't stand Samsung's crapware etc, and nothing else interested me. The new X is the first thing that seems like a real option.
I hope it lives up to my expectations.
My wife is still rocking a Motorola Droid Razr. If you think the Galaxy Nexus struggles to function now you should try her phone....she gave up before me, and she still uses a Blackberry Curve for work.
Which do you find more disappointing or will be more likely to keep you from getting the Nexus 6, the size or the price?
They made it 6 because they did not want itnto hurt moto x sales i guess and a phone in phablet section
Size!!! Because I think everyone can agree when I say that the specs are worth every top dollar except for the size...
The size is my favorite part. I don't think it's badly priced for what it brings to the table either.
justkiddinghere said:
They made it 6 because they did not want itnto hurt moto x sales i guess and a phone in phablet section
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That was never an issue for the past two Nexus phones made by LG that had same sized LG counterparts.
They wanted a phablet so developers could develop for phablets. Why they did not also make a smaller Nexus 6 for the huge number of people who hate the size, I do not know, but I think their reasoning was stupid whatever it was.
that damn size.....OMG! worst move ever...
jasonleb1 said:
The size is my favorite part. I don't think it's badly priced for what it brings to the table either.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, I can live with the price. It would be nice if it's cheaper. But I don't buy a new phone every year, so I can scrape together the money for the awesome specs (much better specs than the Moto X).
But I just don't want a huge phablet. Super disappointing to me. My sense is that the majority of users don't want a phablet (they currently only make up 14% of the global market).
I do understand though that there are many people who like phablets and so for them the Nexus 6 is an amazing device, really the best Nexus device yet and the nicest design since the Nexus One (LG and Samsung just make cheap designs, as far as I'm concerned).
I'm gonna definitely have to say the price.. my bank account is crying right now:crying:
mgbotoe said:
that damn size.....OMG! worst move ever...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, I'm with you on that. And nice to see someone from Berkeley!
cb474 said:
Yeah, I'm with you on that. And nice to see someone from Berkeley!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Heyyyy
I was honestly hoping for a second set of handset with smaller size...heck, it did not even have to come with those killer specs. I just wanted an upgraded nexus 5 lol with maybe 5.5 inch to make my debute into the nexus line...now im caught in a loop about big devices
Price. But I don't care. Still gonna get it. Haha.
There's no reason it had to be 10.1mm thick at its deepest points. Other similar phones have spaced in identical or larger batteries in a significantly thinner frame.
mgbotoe said:
Heyyyy
I was honestly hoping for a second set of handset with smaller size...heck, it did not even have to come with those killer specs. I just wanted an upgraded nexus 5 lol with maybe 5.5 inch to make my debute into the nexus line...now im caught in a loop about big devices
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, I was definitely hoping there would be a second smaller Nexus 6. I would be happy with basically a Nexus version of the Moto X that it's based on, with the 5.2" screen. Although the OIS and the stereo speakers are nice, that's definitely an improvement over the Moto X. That said, I guess the best alternative for a smaller screen is the Moto X, though it will never get all the development and roms a Nexus device will have (the 1st Gen Moto X basically had no development).
Maybe you can just save your money and spend it at Moe's Books and Gordo's Burritos instead. There are more important things in life, right?
JJ2525 said:
There's no reason it had to be 10.1mm thick at its deepest points. Other similar phones have spaced in identical or larger batteries in a significantly thinner frame.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think because it's so thin at the edges, there's less space for the components, which have to be more in the middle, than with a phone that has one even thickness edge to edge. I'm pretty sure that's why the battery in the 2nd Gen Moto X is relatively small, even though it's a pretty large 5.2" screen device. It's not about thickness at the middle, it's about overall internal volume and geometry of the phone.
My Note 3 already feels a tiny bit small.....the extra screen size will be welcome. Especially with front facing stereo speakers. It's like my wifes HTC One M8 but much nicer. The Note 4 moved back to a rear facing single speaker.......screw that noise. Price? I'll be edge'ing up to the N6 so it won't matter.
Neither. When looking at the complete line up, starting from the Nexus 5, Moto x (2nd gen), Nexus 6, Nexus 9.. Google caters to all tastes. As for the price, it is STILL competitive considering specs and materials. Google+Motorola+HTC did a great job by having something for everyone.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using XDA Premium HD app
neyenlives said:
My Note 3 already feels a tiny bit small.....the extra screen size will be welcome. Especially with front facing stereo speakers. It's like my wifes HTC One M8 but much nicer. The Note 4 moved back to a rear facing single speaker.......screw that noise. Price? I'll be edge'ing up to the N6 so it won't matter.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, it's a great upgrade from the Note 3. If you're already happy with that size phone, then there's nothing to complain about.
Crimso said:
Neither. When looking at the complete line up, starting from the Nexus 5, Moto x (2nd gen), Nexus 6, Nexus 9.. Google caters to all tastes. As for the price, it is STILL competitive considering specs and materials. Google+Motorola+HTC did a great job by having something for everyone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Nexus 5 is a year old phone with year old specs. I do not count that as part of the current "lineup." It does not have a 64 GB option; it does not have 3 GB of RAM; it has last year's Snapdragon chipset with a slower CPU and GPU; it does not have Wifi Direct; it does not have stereo speakers; it has crappy noise cancellation. The Nexus 5 is a perfectly good phone, but it's last year's phone, and it's only going to get older and more out of date, while waiting for the next Nexus phone and hoping it has a smaller option.
The 2nd Gen Moto X is not a Nexus phone and will get zero development (like the 1st Gen Moto X). It will also be dependent on Motorola for Android updates, with inevitable (if hopefully short) delays, and will not work properly with direct updates from Google (which would disable the special Motorola features like active notifications and Moto voice). That definitely does not count as part of the Nexus lineup.
I think the only honest way to look at it is that the Nexus 6 is the new king of hill Nexus device. It has lots of great upgrades. It is one of the best phones currently out there. And if you don't like the screen size you are out of luck.
I agree with most of what you said, although the Nexus 5 is still and will probably be amazing for several upcoming months. Hell, I would reccommend people to upgrade to it - those that need an upgrade but are turned off by the Nexus 6.
msal said:
I agree with most of what you said, although the Nexus 5 is still and will probably be amazing for several upcoming months. Hell, I would reccommend people to upgrade to it - those that need an upgrade but are turned off by the Nexus 6.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, the Nexus 5 is great (except for the crappy noise cancellation), no doubt about it. But it is a fary cry from the Nexus 6. It is in no way a smaller but otherwise equivalent device.
The size is just too damn big! Couldn't they stay at a 5" screen!
In another thread someone pointed to a more complex poll with more respondents on this question (size and price) at Reddit. So if you like voting in polls, here's another chance.
Poll:
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1mLrlUA7RrwTE7n5_E0u3Kk9bD93QclhMT4pynNPh3BY/viewform?usp=send_form
Poll Results:
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1mL...lhMT4pynNPh3BY/viewanalytics?usp=form_confirm
Thread:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/2jdr40/meta_nexus_device_poll_for_randroid/
Interestingly, despite have many more respondents, its results are similar to my poll.
Let the debate begin. Obviously these 3 devices will be the highest end you can buy.
As for me, I am completely torn between the 3 devices.
I am really upset that the Droid Turbo/Moto X Play will have better specs than the Nexus 6. (21mp camera, HUGE Battery)
Here are my thoughts.
Nexus 6
- Always will have latest version of Android
- 6 inch display is too damn big. (But will look very nice with 2k )
- Camera is nowhere near top of the line by today's standards.
- No removable battery or expandable storage
- Wireless charging!
- No IR blaster. (Sorry, this feature is awesome. Have you ever turned off a TV at the bar in the middle of the game?? )
- It's gorgeous
Moto X Play/Droid Turbo
- I would rather take 5.2 in display over 6 in
- Tablet sized batterry
- 21MP Camera!
- No guarantee it will always have latest version of Android
- Moto X Play will probably will take forever to come out after Droid Turbo because of Verizon exclusive. I want my new phone NOW
Note 4
- Great camera (Better than nexus 6)
- Replaceable battery and expandable storage
- IR Blaster
- It is also gorgeous
- Touchwiz has always, and will always suck.
- Flashing any AOSP/CM based rom will break a lot of the features. It will also degrade camera performance because of the new kernel
What y'all think?
I am only torn between 2. The moto x and the Nexus 6....I just can't stand touch wiz.
Really my only doubt is the size of the Nexus but it is a Nexus. Love my N5 and i still feel it has a lot of longevity but man oh man do I want that new hardware....
I'm torn with note 4 and nexus. I'm on verizon now and plan to move to t mobile. My fear with the turbo is major bloat and the inability to root and use recovery.
Sudbury78 said:
I'm torn with note 4 and nexus. I'm on verizon now and plan to move to t mobile. My fear with the turbo is major bloat and the inability to root and use recovery.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am on Tmo. There should be a GSM variant of the Turbo coming out called the Moto X Play per an FCC filing.
I think it is safe to say that from a pure specs perspective, this phone is at the top.
Hmmm intriguing. Now I'm more confused and sad I have to wait. Haha
Its also worth noting that all of these moto phones coming out are still operating under Google ownership. This should be good thing with keeping the bloat to a minimum.
What is this Moto X Play thing, I never heard of that. As far as I understand the official name is Droid Turbo.
gregk232 said:
- Camera is nowhere near top of the line by today's standards.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Where did you even make this conclusion from? Have you actually used it or are you just basing it on Megapixel counts?
I have used the OnePlus before which use the Sony Exmor214 sensor, which is actually pretty high end. A lot of it will come down to post processing software. So we have to wait and see. Here is a 4K DCI example of the video recording using the same sensor as in the Nexus 6: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6y4GvxAHFxU
I got some pretty high quality images from the OnePlus camera myself, even though it doesn't have the best post processing technology.
eksasol said:
What is this Moto X Play thing, I never heard of that. As far as I understand the official name is Droid Turbo.
Where did you even make this conclusion from? Have you actually used it or are you just basing it on Megapixel counts?
I have used the OnePlus before which use the Sony Exmor214 sensor, which is actually pretty high end. A lot of it will come down to post processing software. So we have to wait and see. Here is a 4K DCI example of the video recording using the same sensor as in the Nexus 6: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6y4GvxAHFxU
I got some pretty high quality images from the OnePlus camera myself, even though it doesn't have the best post processing technology.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey. Here is some info on the Moto X Play FCC filing.
I was under the impression that the Moto X and the Nexus 6 would have the same camera. From what I have seen in the review videos of the Moto X is that the camera is not good at all.
I will check out the sample you sent... should be interesting.
I'm torn between the nexus 6 and the moto x play. On the one hand the play (or whatever it will be called on Att and tmobile) has that awesome battery, super camera, more usable size. However it appears to lack LTE band 12 for the non vzw variant. That's a bummer because 700 mhz is awesome for building penetration and T-Mobile has bought a lot of it this year.
Nexus 6 has it plus a reasonable battery. I love my nexus 5 except for the battery could be 25% better.
One the size issue, I held an iPhone 6 plus the other day and it wasn't that bad. I could see myself getting used to it.
Note 4 is right out. Can't stand Samsung devices except for my galaxy nexus (still have).
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
I have the note 3 and its tits, I'm getting the nexus 6. If I ever get annoyed, I can always go back to my note 3. Nexus 4 and 5 were a bore to me. I'm actually very boob excited for this nexus 6
Sent from my SM-N900T using XDA Free mobile app
pedxing said:
I'm torn between the nexus 6 and the moto x play. On the one hand the play (or whatever it will be called on Att and tmobile) has that awesome battery, super camera, more usable size. However it appears to lack LTE band 12 for the non vzw variant. That's a bummer because 700 mhz is awesome for building penetration and T-Mobile has bought a lot of it this year.
Nexus 6 has it plus a reasonable battery. I love my nexus 5 except for the battery could be 25% better.
One the size issue, I held an iPhone 6 plus the other day and it wasn't that bad. I could see myself getting used to it.
Note 4 is right out. Can't stand Samsung devices except for my galaxy nexus (still have).
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Moto X Play seems badass in theory, but it's pretty much just vapor right now. If it is an AT&T exclusive, it will be locked down incredibly tight and there likely won't be much development going on for it. I'm sure it will get rooted, but Motorola's bootloaders are notoriously difficult to crack. If ROMing is your thing, then the Moto X Play probably won't be. I don't know if you've considered the regular Moto X but I would give it an honest shot too. You can pick up the Pure edition which is free of carrier bloat and has an unlockable bootloader essentially making it a 5.2" Nexus phone. It is hands down the nicest feeling Android phone I've ever held in my hands, and its performance is top notch.
As far as the iPhone 6 is concerned, it's a seriously awesome piece of hardware. I always have at least one Android device as well as an iPhone since I love multiple things about both platforms and can honestly say that with the 6, there is less of an itch to pick up my Android phone than ever before. I think Apple knocked it out of the park with this one and can recommend it wholeheartedly. If I was stuck on a deserted island and had to choose either Android or iOS to keep with me I'd still choose Android, but it would be a tougher decision to make and live with now that I have the 6.
Sent from my iPhone 6 using Tapatalk
I'm on verizon. Sold my note 3 because I could not stand touchwiz. Bought the moto x it is a fantastic phone but I miss being able to play with phones like my galaxy nexus. Im buying the nexus 6 the instant it is available.
_MetalHead_ said:
The Moto X Play seems badass in theory, but it's pretty much just vapor right now. If it is an AT&T exclusive, it will be locked down incredibly tight and there likely won't be much development going on for it. I'm sure it will get rooted, but Motorola's bootloader safe notoriously difficult to crack.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agree with you there. I was hoping for a play edition of the x play.... Maybe it's a unicorn though.
I'll probably preorder the nexus 6 and see how it goes and if the battery isn't good enough and the magical moto comes out with pure android I'll grab that and try it.
Hopefully Motorola will do it like the did with the g and the new x.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
pedxing said:
Agree with you there. I was hoping for a play edition of the x play.... Maybe it's a unicorn though.
I'll probably preorder the nexus 6 and see how it goes and if the battery isn't good enough and the magical moto comes out with pure android I'll grab that and try it.
Hopefully Motorola will do it like the did with the g and the new x.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If and when it does come out, its software will be as close to stock as you can get without it being an official "pure android" device. Ditching Blur was the smartest thing Motorola did- they went from having the worst software to having the best software overnight. The additional software features that Motorola includes in their phones now actually make stock android better. Active display is the greatest thing in the world since man first discovered that oysters are edible.
Guys how would this compare to the Galaxy S5?
xaznxplaya said:
Guys how would this compare to the Galaxy S5?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not an essential upgrade of course, but this is XDA and usually most people upgrading here aren't doing it because they need to. From the Carphone Warehouse video, the camera is apparently almost as good as the Note 4's in daytime shots and slightly better in lowlight shots. So it should be comparable, if not a bit better, than the S5's. The Nexus 6 will certainly be a great deal bigger, so assess whether or not a big phone is for you (I'd test out an iPhone 6 Plus and a Note 4 and see if you think you can adjust). It's subjective, but I and many others vastly prefer stock Android over TouchWiz and that's always been a reason to buy a Nexus device for me. Take in mind you'll be giving up expandable storage and removable batteries. I'm not sure if that's important to you or not, though.
---------- Post added at 02:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:01 PM ----------
xaznxplaya said:
Guys how would this compare to the Galaxy S5?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
_MetalHead_ said:
As far as the iPhone 6 is concerned, it's a seriously awesome piece of hardware. I always have at least one Android device as well as an iPhone since I love multiple things about both platforms and can honestly say that with the 6, there is less of an itch to pick up my Android phone than ever before. I think Apple knocked it out of the park with this one and can recommend it wholeheartedly. If I was stuck on a deserted island and had to choose either Android or iOS to keep with me I'd still choose Android, but it would be a tougher decision to make and live with now that I have the 6.
Sent from my iPhone 6 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm specifically replying to agree with what you're saying about the iPhone 6. I've been using mine since launch (4.7", 128gb), and I almost hate how much I love it. The last time I tried out an iPhone was with the iPhone 5 and after three weeks I felt like I was being held back in functionality over Android and switched back to my original HTC One, sold the iPhone, and didn't look back. This time, though, I don't see myself doing that. I'm past the honeymoon phase and am still finding very few things to dislike. The screen, the camera, the battery life, the smoothness. It's all on point. I've been annoyed by a lack of customizability a couple times, but my lack of complaints in other areas allow it. This is the first device I've ever had that I don't believe has an Achilles heel. It's almost a shame that it's an iPhone, though. I'm hoping the Nexus 6 will be the Android equivalent.
I was torn between the Nexus 6 and the Xperia Z3, but after actually seeing the N6, that's what I'm going with!
Sent from my Xiaomi Mi4
@gregk232
My opinion
Samsung is pleasing to the eye when it's not randomly rebooting/overheating and the biggest negative is TOUCHWIZ
Everything else other than Samsung is a plus
gregk232 said:
Hey. Here is some info on the Moto X Play FCC filing.
I was under the impression that the Moto X and the Nexus 6 would have the same camera. From what I have seen in the review videos of the Moto X is that the camera is not good at all.
I will check out the sample you sent... should be interesting.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No the Nexus 6 has a newer/better camera hardware than the Moto X.
---------- Post added at 05:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:52 PM ----------
jball said:
@gregk232
My opinion
Samsung is pleasing to the eye when it's not randomly rebooting/overheating and the biggest negative is TOUCHWIZ
Everything else other than Samsung is a plus
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The only thing I like about Touchwiz, is the Messaging App and the Photo Gallery/Editing Options. Everything else is just way over the top.
The debate is pretty simply...do you wish to get an OS update before you sell the device?
If so...then Samsung is right off the list.
The price is only about $100 more given you keep storage options about the same.
The only downside I see to the Nexus 6P is no SD slot and it costs more. I originally wanted the Moto X since it was affordable, has SD storage and was 5.7inches. The Nexus seems to be a better option with the only downside being no SD storage and it's a bit more expensive, although in my opinion AMOLED is a better screen choice than LCD so the Nexus has that going for it too, and a bigger battery....... Here is what I "think" I know after watching the event.
Nexus 6P
Pros:
USB-C
Larger battery 3450mah vs 3000 mah on the X
Faster software updates
Marshmallow preinstalled
AMOLED screen
Cons:
A little more expensive
no SD card slot.
Moto X Pure(Style)
Pros:
Cheaper
SD Card Slot
Cons:
LCD screen as opposed to AMOLED
Smaller battery 3000mah vs 3450mah
micro USB vs USB-C
Is anyone else struggling with this?
I was struggling until about 3 minutes ago when I ordered a 128GB graphite 6P. I'm honestly still not convinced I actually need to upgrade from my current Nexus 6. Heck I was even going to hold out hope that there might be a DROID with a fat battery and unlockable bootloaders. I love Motorola and their signal is amazing and I'm hoping this is comparable. This will be my 3rd Nexus and my current one is my 4th Motorola. Neither have done me wrong so far. I wish it had a wireless charger but I guess turbo charging is making that obsolete and I have to accept it. Ultimately I said screw it and ordered one. But I used the amex just in case lol.
Sent from my Nexus 6
Big Cam said:
The price is only about $100 more given you keep storage options about the same.
The only downside I see to the Nexus 6P is no SD slot and it costs more. I originally wanted the Moto X since it was affordable, has SD storage and was 5.7inches. The Nexus seems to be a better option with the only downside being no SD storage and it's a bit more expensive, although in my opinion AMOLED is a better screen choice than LCD so the Nexus has that going for it too, and a bigger battery....... Here is what I "think" I know after watching the event.
Nexus 6P
Pros:
USB-C
Larger battery 3450mah vs 3000 mah on the X
Faster software updates
Marshmallow preinstalled
AMOLED screen
Cons:
A little more expensive
no SD card slot.
Moto X Pure(Style)
Pros:
Cheaper
SD Card Slot
Cons:
LCD screen as opposed to AMOLED
Smaller battery 3000mah vs 3450mah
micro USB vs USB-C
Is anyone else struggling with this?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You have to see what type of amoled they put on this. Nexus 6 had amoled but it was crappy amoled.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A
ambervals6 said:
You have to see what type of amoled they put on this. Nexus 6 had amoled but it was crappy amoled.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's a good point for sure, I just generally feel like most AMOLED's now a days are brighter and crisper than an LCD, plus they are easier on the battery.
Big Cam said:
That's a good point for sure, I just generally feel like most AMOLED's now a days are brighter and crisper than an LCD, plus they are easier on the battery.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
From my experience, only amoleds used on samsung flagships are the best. When other manufacturers use amoled, samsung never gives them the top of the line amoled, that's why I believe is best for other manufacturers to go with lcd. Hopefully this amoled is power efficient and has good colors/angels etc.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A
I think the nexus 5x would be a better comparison.
Big con for the Moto X Pure(Style), for me is they do not sell it in Canada.
I was on the fence between Moto X Pure, iPhone 6s Plus and Nexus 6p.
Moto X Pure lacks accessories. Almost nothing projected from major case manufacturers.
iPhone 6s Plus on IOS9 has no jailbreak, which means no tethering for me since I have Verizon Unlimited.
Nexus 6p like the iPhone gets dinged for no removable storage, but offer 128GB, which I can live with.
I bought a graphite Nexus 6p.
lemon07r said:
I think the nexus 5x would be a better comparison.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, I chose these 2 phones since they are the same size screen and very close specs , the 5x is lower in almost every category, so that's not a good comparison in my .
Big Cam said:
Well, I chose these 2 phones since they are the same size screen and very close specs , the 5x is lower in almost every category, so that's not a good comparison in my .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Care to enlighten me? I don't see how it is "lower" in almost "every category".
lemon07r said:
Care to enlighten me? I don't see how it is "lower" in almost "every category".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Less ram
Smaller screen size
Smaller battery
Less in available storages sizes
Smaller screen resolution
The 6P and moto x are more alike than the moto x and 5x.
No fingerprint scanner on the motox right?
I already own a 64gb, black leather, red accented Moto X Pure, so I'm now debating on selling it and buying the Nexus 6P. Biggest reason why, development on XDA. I'm worried the 6p will over shadow the MXP and fewer developers will put time into releasing roms/mods for the MXP.
I'd love to hear feedback from those that do create roms and extra features for devices. I have no other complaints for the MXP, just fear of its support dying very early.
I had the MXP, but returned it a few days ago. I just wasn't impressed. I'm glad I did, now that I ordered a graphite Nexus 6P.
Sent from my Xiaomi Mi4
NoFear1183 said:
I already own a 64gb, black leather, red accented Moto X Pure, so I'm now debating on selling it and buying the Nexus 6P. Biggest reason why, development on XDA. I'm worried the 6p will over shadow the MXP and fewer developers will put time into releasing roms/mods for the MXP.
I'd love to hear feedback from those that do create roms and extra features for devices. I have no other complaints for the MXP, just fear of its support dying very early.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What do you refer to when you say development? Have you seen nexus 6 forums? Nothing special going on there.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A
ambervals6 said:
What do you refer to when you say development? Have you seen nexus 6 forums? Nothing special going on there.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nexus 6P. Not last year's nexus.
Nothing special there yet, phone was just announced. The phone already has toolkit though.
NoFear1183 said:
Nexus 6P. Not last year's nexus.
Nothing special there yet, phone was just announced. The phone already has toolkit though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am saying there is lots of hype for development on nexus devices, but since nexus 4, there hasn't been much going on. The days when Paranoid Android team was developing and Moles was with them used to be great. From what I recall a few other teams developed last year, but they didn't bring nothing new.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A
My pure is going back to Motorola. Plenty of complaints to read on their forums. OPO until my big P comes in.
I like the XPE but in returning mine as well. The only minus to the 6P is the sd slot and some of the moto features but I gain amoled (which is important to me coming from a note 3), bigger battery, fingerprint scanner and notification led! Also price wise isn't much difference when configured similarly. My XPE with 32gb and wood back was $503 shipped. The 64gb 6P was $583, what I get for the price difference is worth it in my book.
The XPE is a good phone but it's just not the phone for me. As someone else said, the development for the 6p will be huge in comparison to the Motorola. Spigen isn't making any cases for the XPE and neither are many accessory makers. I think the 6P will get all the love I'd hoped the Motorola would get so back it goes!
Avoid Moto, their customer service sucks, it's awful experience dealing with them..