Camera Discussion - Nexus 6 General
Direct quote from Google:
An f2.0 lens and 13 megapixel camera with optical image stabilization capture great photos in daylight and low light. Using advanced computational photography technology and HDR+, the pre-installed Google Camera does the heavy lifting so you can effortlessly take great photos.
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Luckily it doesn't seem to be the same camera found on the Moto X (2014). Different sensor perhaps?
Moto X 2nd gen has the Sony IMX135
Nexus 6 has the Sony IMX214 (same as oneplus)
lookitzjohnny said:
Moto X 2nd gen has the Sony IMX135
Nexus 6 has the Sony IMX214 (same as oneplus)
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Which one is better?
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NardVa said:
Which one is better?
Sent from my LG-E980 using XDA Free mobile app
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http://www.sony.net/Products/SC-HP/new_pro/april_2014/imx214_e.html
214. The OnePlus One can take some great pictures. The N6 should be similar if not equal but I am concerned that the camera app won't take full advantage of what that sensor can do. Hopefully it will.
It's super interesting to me that the front-facing camera has 1.4um pixel size vs the 1.12um.. even smaller than the Nexus 5's. I guess they prioritized good low-lighting shots for selfies not photos.
The hardware seems to be there. Google just needs to develop the software to take advantage of the hardware. Heck, even the Nexus 5 has decent camera hardware.. The software is where it was lacking.
lookitzjohnny said:
Moto X 2nd gen has the Sony IMX135
Nexus 6 has the Sony IMX214 (same as oneplus)
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Where did you find this info? For the Nexus 6?
0.0 said:
Where did you find this info? For the Nexus 6?
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http://www.motorola.com/us/Nexus-6/nexus-6-motorola-us.html
lensgrabber said:
http://www.sony.net/Products/SC-HP/new_pro/april_2014/imx214_e.html
214. The OnePlus One can take some great pictures. The N6 should be similar if not equal but I am concerned that the camera app won't take full advantage of what that sensor can do. Hopefully it will.
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The important thing to keep in mind here is that this is a 1/3 sensor, like all other sensors out their in flagship phones these days. There is only so much you can do with a 1/3 sensor. So it will be fine, but nothing special. 1/3 sensors first debuted in phones, in 2006 with the Nokia N93 (at the time an advance over the 1/4 sensors). So this is eight year old tehnology. And yet it is the status quo in today's phones.
The only notable exception, I know of, is the Galaxy S5 that has a 1/2.5 sensor (and also the Xperia Z3 I think). The S5 takes pretty good photos. Nothing else is going to be as good as the S5. I promise the Nexus 6 will not hold a candle to the S5. The Z3 is not so good as the S5 for somewhat inexplicable reasons; I don't know why Sony can't get their act together, despite being the supplier of sensors to so many other companies, but the cameras in their recent phones have consistently underperformed.
And of course there is the Nokia 1020 with a huge 1/1.5 sensor and the Nokia 808 with and even huger 1/1.2 sensor, that's phsically five times larger than a 1/3 sensor. Those are great camera phones. But you have to sacrifice thinness to have sensors like that. Then there's the four year old Nokia N8 with a 1/1.8 sensor that still eclipses todays best of the best. And even the five year old Nokia N86 has a 1/2.5 sensor that takes as good photos as any phone today, including the S5.
Physical sensor size (not megapixels) matters because it allows the camera to take in more light, render colors better, have less noise, and perform better in low light. Everything else is pretty much gimmicks and fiddling around the edges (except OIS is a nice feature, I think--and resolution and frame rates for video has gotten better--though 4K seems like a stupid exercise when no one has a computer screen or television that can render that level of resolution).
Anyway, so the Nexus 6 has just another medicore 1/3 sensor that will take fine snapshots. Mainly it is an advance over previous Nexus phones that had subpar cameras, but other than that it is just catching up to the mediocre pack of today's flagship pones. If you want the best camera in a normal phone, get an S5. If you want a truly great camera and can stand Windows Phone or the defunct Symbian OS, get a Nokia 1020 or Nokia 808. Everything else is just whatever.
Isn't the Note 4 better than the S5 in terms of camera performance?
cb474 said:
The important thing to keep in mind here is that this is a 1/3 sensor, like all other sensors out their in flagship phones these days. There is only so much you can do with a 1/3 sensor. So it will be fine, but nothing special. 1/3 sensors first debuted in phones, in 2006 with the Nokia N93 (at the time an advance over the 1/4 sensors). So this is eight year old tehnology. And yet it is the status quo in today's phones.
The only notable exception, I know of, is the Galaxy S5 that has a 1/2.5 sensor (and also the Xperia Z3 I think). The S5 takes pretty good photos. Nothing else is going to be as good as the S5. I promise the Nexus 6 will not hold a candle to the S5. The Z3 is not so good as the S5 for somewhat inexplicable reasons; I don't know why Sony can't get their act together, despite being the supplier of sensors to so many other companies, but the cameras in their recent phones have consistently underperformed.
And of course there is the Nokia 1020 with a huge 1/1.5 sensor and the Nokia 808 with and even huger 1/1.2 sensor, that's phsically five times larger than a 1/3 sensor. Those are great camera phones. But you have to sacrifice thinness to have sensors like that. Then there's the four year old Nokia N8 with a 1/1.8 sensor that still eclipses todays best of the best. And even the five year old Nokia N86 has a 1/2.5 sensor that takes as good photos as any phone today, including the S5.
Physical sensor size (not megapixels) matters because it allows the camera to take in more light, render colors better, have less noise, and perform better in low light. Everything else is pretty much gimmicks and fiddling around the edges (except OIS is a nice feature, I think--and resolution and frame rates for video has gotten better--though 4K seems like a stupid exercise when no one has a computer screen or television that can render that level of resolution).
Anyway, so the Nexus 6 has just another medicore 1/3 sensor that will take fine snapshots. Mainly it is an advance over previous Nexus phones that had subpar cameras, but other than that it is just catching up to the mediocre pack of today's flagship pones. If you want the best camera in a normal phone, get an S5. If you want a truly great camera and can stand Windows Phone or the defunct Symbian OS, get a Nokia 1020 or Nokia 808. Everything else is just whatever.
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This was very informative. This really relieves me of not being so down about not having the imx214 in the Moto X 2014
Also, hello again. I've seen you before in the Moto X 2014 forums lol
sent from my Moto X (2014)
---------- Post added at 11:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:40 PM ----------
msal said:
Isn't the Note 4 better than the S5 in terms of camera performance?
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It should be, if it is using the same sensor as s5. On top of that, it is using OIS. The Note 4 should be the new benchmark in terms of camera quality for Android
sent from my Moto X (2014)
What about this camera compared to the LG G3? My G3 takes the best photos I've ever had from a phone. The megapixel count is the same between the two, but it has a Sony IMX135.. and it has that laser autofocus which is pretty nice for fast shots.
Also, what about the N6 being f2.0 aperture over the typical 2.2 or 2.4?
msal said:
Isn't the Note 4 better than the S5 in terms of camera performance?
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I'm not into phablets, so I don't know much about the Note 4. It looks like it has a Sony IMX240 sesnor, with a 1/2.6 sensor, so slightly smaller than the 1/2.5 sensor in the S5. It does have OIS though, which should help with longer exposures in low light. The S5 has an "Isocell" sensor, which is supposed to have barriers between pixels that helps improve color accuracy and sharpness (see: http://connect.dpreview.com/post/0315472077/samsung-explains-the-galaxy-s5-isocell-sensor). I know the S5 has atypically good color accuracy for a phone, though part of that is a choice on Samsungs part not to favor in the post-processing the oversaturated colors that many people like (i.e. that many people mistake for better photos--people often find more accurate colors to look washed out). Anyway, since Samsung usually does a good job in their flagships, I would not be surprised if the Note 4 is comparable or slightly better than the S5. But it's going to be minor differences, I think.
0.0 said:
This was very informative. This really relieves me of not being so down about not having the imx214 in the Moto X 2014
Also, hello again. I've seen you before in the Moto X 2014 forums lol
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Yes, the new Nexus phone and the 2nd Gen. Moto X are the two phones I'm looking at to replace my Nexus 4, so I've been hanging around both forums. For the moment I'm just trying to get over my raging disappointment that the Nexus 6 really is a huge 6" phablet. Sigh. It does have some nice upgrades over the 2nd Gen. Moto X, I think. (Though if it lacks the four microphone noise cancellation in the Moto X, that's a deal killer for me--I haven't been able to confirm anything about this yet.)
I wouldn't worry about the different sensors in the phones much. They're both fine and more or less in the same ballpark of quality, as 1/3 sensors. OIS on the Nexus 6 is nice and should help with low light photography (and video), that's the biggest difference, depending how important that is to you. In good light, I doubt you'd see much difference between the cameras. For just general snapshots of friends and things like that, I think all these phones are fine.
As I said above, I think people make way too big a deal of the differences between cameras in current flagships. Handset makers try to make a big deal out of small differences, for the sake of competition, because they can't acknowledge the truth that they've all just decided the eight year old technology of 1/3 sensors is good enough and they'd rather make super thin phones. If you're the sort of person who's really going to get into the small differences between one flagship with a 1/3 sensor and another, then you're probably the sort of person that would appreciate an S5 more, because of it's 1/2.5 sensor, and you're probably the sort of person will to take the Windows Phone plunge so you can get the truly amazing Nokia 1020 with it's 1/1.5 sensor and many other advantages (mechanical shutter, OIS, Xenon flash, pixel binning for over sampling, lossless digital zooming).
Nitemare3219 said:
What about this camera compared to the LG G3? My G3 takes the best photos I've ever had from a phone. The megapixel count is the same between the two, but it has a Sony IMX135.. and it has that laser autofocus which is pretty nice for fast shots.
Also, what about the N6 being f2.0 aperture over the typical 2.2 or 2.4?
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The LG G3 has the same IMX135 sensor as the 2nd Gen Moto X, but also has OIS. It's prefectly good, but still yet another 1/3 sensor. It's the same sensor in the LG G2, the Note 3, the Galaxy S4, and a bazillion other phones, so it shouldn't be meaningfully different from any of them, except for the potential low light advantage of OIS. (Check this out to see just how many phones have Sony sensors in them: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exmor).
That being said OIS is not a miracle cure for smaller sensors. Neither is the f2.0 aperature on the Nexus 6. They're nice features, but you can only do so much with a smaller 1/3 sensor. Again, these are all ways manufacturers are trying to fiddle around to make the best out of mediocre sensors. The S5 and even the five year old Nokia N86 with 1/2.5 sensors will do almost as well in low light as a phone with OIS (I think the f2.0 will make less of a difference than OIS). And, again, the huge 1/1.8, 1/1.5, 1/1.2 sensors in the Nokia N8, 1020, and 808 (respectively) are going to way out perform a 1/3 sensor with OIS in low light (as well as in every other situation)--and of course the 1020 also has OIS, on top of a huge sensor.
At this point, I don't really know why all flaghips don't have OIS. It has some benefits. And it's stupid to have to choose between a mediocre 1/3 sensor with OIS and a larger 1/2.5 sensor without OIS. It's like two different choices of how to shoot yourself in the foot.
All that to say, I still think these are all pretty minor differences between phones with more or less similar image making capabilities. I wouldn't choose between the LG G3, Moto X, or Nexus 6 for the camera. I might (might) choose the S5 for the camera, but I hate Samsung phones, so I really wouldn't ever get an S5. If the camera really was the main issue to me, I'd get a Nokia 1020 and enter the wonderful world of Windows Phone (which I think is under rated as an interface anyway). But that's really for the serious photographers.
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A final word to the wise. Take the reviews of phone cameras you see online with a huge grain of salt. There are very few sites that do a good job and know what they are talking about. Most site reviewers are essentially amature photographers, making incredibly subjective judgments about images, with no real knowledge of how to take photos in a way that allow for good comparisons, and overplay the differences between today's phones (since they get the phones for free to review, they also have huge conflicts of interest and will mostly avoid saying anything too negative--like acknowledging that the differences between these phones a relatively minor). Dpreview.com is probably the best site I know of.
Great read dude. I've owned several Samsung's and nexus phones. None could take the quality pics my HTC DNA could. Would that be software related? I loved that damn phone.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using XDA Free mobile app
donnyp1 said:
Great read dude. I've owned several Samsung's and nexus phones. None could take the quality pics my HTC DNA could. Would that be software related? I loved that damn phone.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using XDA Free mobile app
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I'm not especially familiar with the DNA and can't find any information about its sensor, although it appears to have a decent f2.0 aperature. Seems like it had the same sensor as the HTC One X, which was a 1/3.2 backside illuminated CMOS sensor. Reviews seem to find that the HTC One, with it's ultrapixels, took better (more color accurate) photos.
Perhaps there was just something about how the DNA did post-processing on the images that you subjectively liked better.
This is a good example of how sensors have stayed in the 1/3 ballpark for a long time and an older phone can be just as good as today's "flagships," which is basically the point I've been making.
I think the Nexus 5 that your signature says you have (like the Nexus 4 before it) has as somewhat subpar camera by the current standards. So it's understandable that coming from the DNA you could be having a worse experience--though the Nexus 5 has a similar 1/3.2 sensor and OIS. The Nexus 6, if you're' in the market for one, ought to be a decent improvement over the Nexus 5 and better than the DNA. Especially since the Nexus 6 has OIS, on top of a newer and slightly larger 1/3.06 sensor. But, still, I think they are all in the same general range as cameras.
What's with the 30 fps stat listed on the google and moto specific pages... Up to 4k recording but no slow motion capture. I thought the OPO does slo mo.
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So if both the one + and the nexus 6 have the same camera, would the difference be night shots with flash?
I don't really know how software will play in, but I hope that the nexus 6 is more crisp than moto x. Hard to decide between this or an One+.
I also wonder why the people that are disappointed with the nexus 6's price and/or screen size don't get a one + instead.
Richie5767 said:
So if both the one + and the nexus 6 have the same camera, would the difference be night shots with flash?
I don't really know how software will play in, but I hope that the nexus 6 is more crisp than moto x. Hard to decide between this or an One+.
I also wonder why the people that are disappointed with the nexus 6's price and/or screen size don't get a one + instead.
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Because the stupid invite system ...you still can't get the freaking phone ....
One + is not available for Verizon as far as I know, or I would consider it.
Richie5767 said:
So if both the one + and the nexus 6 have the same camera, would the difference be night shots with flash?
I don't really know how software will play in, but I hope that the nexus 6 is more crisp than moto x. Hard to decide between this or an One+.
I also wonder why the people that are disappointed with the nexus 6's price and/or screen size don't get a one + instead.
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From a hardware point of view, the main difference will be that the Nexus 6 has OIS (optical image stabilization) and the OnePlus One does not. This should improve photography in low light, allowing for longer exposures. And it will allow for more fluid and stable video, when moving the camera and shooting at the same time. The OnePlus One does have digital image stablization, which OnePlus made a big deal about, but digital image stablization sucks and reviews of the OnePlus One demonstrated this, as if it really needed to be demonstrated yet again on another device.
There could be software differences, in terms of how the phones post-process the images. The OnePlus One, like many phones, produces over-saturated colors, because people tend to like that better (they see the bright colors and think it is a better photo, even though it is an inaccurate representation of the colors in the actual scene). I wouldn't hold my breath for Google choosing to do something different, however. Over-saturated colors are pretty much the norm, not many phones go for more realistic colors. Also, phones sometimes vary on how much sharpening they apply in post processing. Again, sharpening creates the superficial appearance of a sharper image, but actually eliminates detail in the photo, if you zoom way in. Of course, these are things that can be corrected later with image editing software, if you care.
We'll really have to wait for reviews on high quality sites, like Dpreview, before we know if the Nexus 6 and OnePlus One vary at all in how they do post-processing.
Related
G5 Camera Discussion
This thread to discuss all about camera hardware and software. From Gsmarena, "Camera The camera is shaping up as a major selling point for the LG G5, just like it was for the G4. Rumors checked out here and the new flagship comes with a dual shooter setup on the back. The G5 inherits all the goodies, like Laser Auto Focus, Advanced OIS and the Color Spectrum sensor from its predecessor, but now focuses its improvements in another important area - zooming. The handset is now actually capable of capturing 135-degree Ultra Wide Angle shots in addition tot he traditional 75-degree snaps. The extra spacial awareness comes courtesy of an additional 8MP shooter on the back. It sits alongside the 16MP F/1.8 camera - identical to the one on the LG G3 back. On the software side, the phone is not only smart enough to quickly let you choose between shooters and how much you want inside the frame but can also leverage on the two snappers to produce various shot effects. In our brief time with the LG G5 we managed to take a couple of snaps with both of its cameras. Below you can see a sample taken with each camera. The preliminary results are promising even though the venue was rather poorly lit." Since the LG G5 uses pretty much the same camera, on paper, as the G4, let's see how the two compares practically. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
omeryounos said: This thread to discuss all about camera hardware and software. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Click to expand... Click to collapse There will be nothing to discuss, until the device is released.
HTC 10 or S7
Hi everyone , I thought of getting the s7 edge but the 10 was pretty impressive. Which should I go for ? I flash Roms a lot and will definitely root it. I will be getting it unlocked for sure.
I had the HTC ONE M8. My contract was up this year. I went for the S7 EDGE and aside from missing the IR blaster, I don't regret it. However the lack of decent tempered glass screen protectors for the S7E is irritating. That said, if the Edge model did not exist and the choice was between regular S7 and HTC 10, I would have stuck with HTC. The Edge uniqueness pipped it for me. I actually use the Edge UI quite a bit. FYI some more background, I left Samsung years ago and switched to HTC for two reasons 1) fed up with TouchWiz and bloat ware 2) plastic materials. Something I felt HTC were addressing with their Sense and metal materials. I've gone full circle again. TouchWiz is less bloated now and actually enjoyable to use. And the hardware feels premium. Sent from my SM-G935F using XDA-Developers mobile app
Are you getting the international S7? Because AFAIK, The US models don't support unlocking/root... so that's a big negative. Also, I never had a good experience using an international Note 5 on T-Mobile USA's network (if you're US based). Each phone has pro's and cons. The S7 is certainly more polished right now, but HTC has been pushing updates daily to fix issues. Performance should ideally be faster on the HTC just because it is less bloated. I really appreciate HTC embracing stock Android as much as possible. I'll give you a quick rundown of my opinion on the devices... I'm having such a hard time deciding, I actually just ordered both and plan on using them back and forth to hopefully decide which I will use until the next Nexus or Note 6. S7E: +Insanely fast autofocus... camera is reliable right now. Better manual controls +Great sunlight brightness +Waterproof +OLED screen +Unique design +Larger screen +Huge battery +Better slow motion video, and 60 FPS video +Wireless charging +UFS storage speeds -micro-USB, v2.0 -TouchWiz -No root capability for US models yet? -Fingerprint reader is slower and must press power button -Curved edges can distort colors (turn blue/green) on white browsing screens HTC 10: +Brighter screen in manual brightness +High fidelity speakers and headphone jack, DAC/amps. High-res audio recording +Lighter OS +Better looking display whites +Type C USB, v3.1 +Unlocked bootloader +Better front and rear camera hardware (bigger pixels, OIS on front - software needs more polishing) +$599 after discount code -eMMC storage speeds -Smaller display -Only splash resilient -Small battery for thickness -No sunlight brightness boost mode -LCD contrast (very good, but still nowhere near OLED) If the 10 were OLED and 5.5", it would have been the perfect phone...
I love HTC, but now, i would pick the S7 edge.
Htc 10 is a good device. The S7Edge is a great device. You pretty much get the best components on the market. Htc 10 asks way too high of a price for what it offers, using emmc storage, bad optics for the camera, OIS not so good either, display is not that good unless you get a specific brand (basically a lottery), it gets too hot too fast ( search htc 10 forums) The only reason you might wanna consider the 10 is maybe audio, not that its that much better than the S7Edge exynos. Samsung pretty much created the best device money can get to date.
FalconFX said: Htc 10 is a good device. The S7Edge is a great device. You pretty much get the best components on the market. Htc 10 asks way too high of a price for what it offers, using emmc storage, bad optics for the camera, OIS not so good either, display is not that good unless you get a specific brand (basically a lottery), it gets too hot too fast ( search htc 10 forums) The only reason you might wanna consider the 10 is maybe audio, not that its that much better than the S7Edge exynos. Samsung pretty much created the best device money can get to date. Click to expand... Click to collapse You're down talking the phone way more than it deserves. Have you even used it yet to back up those claims? The latest eMMC is not THAT much worse than UFS. Most people are likely to not even notice a difference because once things are loaded in the RAM, it's moot. How does it have bad optics? LOL. It uses the same sensor as the 6P which BEATS the S7E in plenty of low light tests due to superior HDR processing. The HTC with a bigger aperture AND OIS is a recipe for perfection if HTC can get the camera software right, which so far has gotten better, but is not where it needs to be. And how is the OIS bad? I haven't seen much complaining about the panels. Apparently the more rare Sharp panels don't have an issue in landscape with polarized sunglasses and may have less visible tinting at extreme angles. But from what I saw in a YouTube video, after 2 weeks, the pink tint was practically gone at extreme angles hinting to it being an adhesive issue in the LCD which will clear up after a little bit of use. Don't know anything about the heat actually being an issue. Apparently people feel the heat easily - it is an aluminum phone, so maybe it's just better at dissipating it, but I would bet that the S7E is less prone to thermal throttling with its vapor heat pipe. Not an issue for me because I never game on my phone.
Nitemare3219 said: You're down talking the phone way more than it deserves. Have you even used it yet to back up those claims? The latest eMMC is not THAT much worse than UFS. Most people are likely to not even notice a difference because once things are loaded in the RAM, it's moot. How does it have bad optics? LOL. It uses the same sensor as the 6P which BEATS the S7E in plenty of low light tests due to superior HDR processing. The HTC with a bigger aperture AND OIS is a recipe for perfection if HTC can get the camera software right, which so far has gotten better, but is not where it needs to be. And how is the OIS bad? I haven't seen much complaining about the panels. Apparently the more rare Sharp panels don't have an issue in landscape with polarized sunglasses and may have less visible tinting at extreme angles. But from what I saw in a YouTube video, after 2 weeks, the pink tint was practically gone at extreme angles hinting to it being an adhesive issue in the LCD which will clear up after a little bit of use. Don't know anything about the heat actually being an issue. Apparently people feel the heat easily - it is an aluminum phone, so maybe it's just better at dissipating it, but I would bet that the S7E is less prone to thermal throttling with its vapor heat pipe. Not an issue for me because I never game on my phone. Click to expand... Click to collapse Just the fact that you said that HTC has bigger aperture means you know s***t about cameras, The smaller the number the wider the aperture, 1.7 is better than 1.8. here is a comparison : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFww3-Ne3Fk When i said optics i meant the lenses, not the sensor, but considering how you dont know which aperture size is better, there is no reason to waste my time on photography 101. The S7 is the fastest device of the year (exynos), in day to day usage & in heavy tasks. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvytFwkI8BA As i said, the 10 is a good device, but not a great one, for the price they are asking for it, they are delivering the basic things, which every device this year does very well, and arguably the S7 excels not only at the basics, but goes beyond that with extras, (Wireless charging, heat pipe, IP68, etc).
FalconFX said: Just the fact that you said that HTC has bigger aperture means you know s***t about cameras, The smaller the number the wider the aperture, 1.7 is better than 1.8. here is a comparison : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFww3-Ne3Fk When i said optics i meant the lenses, not the sensor, but considering how you dont know which aperture size is better, there is no reason to waste my time on photography 101. The S7 is the fastest device of the year (exynos), in day to day usage & in heavy tasks. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvytFwkI8BA As i said, the 10 is a good device, but not a great one, for the price they are asking for it, they are delivering the basic things, which every device this year does very well, and arguably the S7 excels not only at the basics, but goes beyond that with extras, (Wireless charging, heat pipe, IP68, etc). Click to expand... Click to collapse My comment of having a bigger aperture was directed towards it being larger than the 6P, not the S7E. I am well aware that the S7E has a larger aperture, but the 10 has larger pixels. I'm not sure which would equate to taking in more light, but considering the 6P has been capable of producing better shots than the S7E in many scenarios at night, the 10 should be even more capable with its larger aperture (than the 6P). Exynos is not available here in the US unless you get the international version, which is not worth it considering the issues that may arise trying to use it on US carriers based on my experience with an international Note5 on T-Mobile USA's network. If OP is outside of the US, then that is cetainly something to consider. The S7 has its additional features, as does the 10. The heat pipe is only relevant if you heavily use the device. IP68 is cool for sure, but I don't know how well I'm warming up to the idea of getting the phone wet regularly. Wireless charging is pointless because it is a lot slower than wired, and you can't really use the phone easily when it's charging like that. The 10 has FAR superior audio (at least vs the SD 820 variant), has a larger aperture for the front camera along with OIS, more refined speaker audio, higher manual brightness, USB Type C v3.1, is less bloated, and - this is a big one for me - doesn't require you to hit a home button for fingerprint unlock OR to go home. I don't know why, but I hate pushing down on a button, especially to unlock the device. I'm not arguing that the S7 isn't a great device. That's why I have ordered them both to see which suits me best. I'm just saying that calling the 10 only a "good" phone is a bit unwarranted at this point. HTC put a lot of effort in the right places and left it unlocked from the start, and has pushed updates daily since it launched. Samsung hasn't really innovated much like they could have. Last year's Note5 was a huge showcase of that... nothing new other than the updated design.
HTC 10 I liked best the camera.
Nitemare3219 said: My comment of having a bigger aperture was directed towards it being larger than the 6P, not the S7E. I am well aware that the S7E has a larger aperture, but the 10 has larger pixels. I'm not sure which would equate to taking in more light, but considering the 6P has been capable of producing better shots than the S7E in many scenarios at night, the 10 should be even more capable with its larger aperture (than the 6P). Exynos is not available here in the US unless you get the international version, which is not worth it considering the issues that may arise trying to use it on US carriers based on my experience with an international Note5 on T-Mobile USA's network. If OP is outside of the US, then that is cetainly something to consider. The S7 has its additional features, as does the 10. The heat pipe is only relevant if you heavily use the device. IP68 is cool for sure, but I don't know how well I'm warming up to the idea of getting the phone wet regularly. Wireless charging is pointless because it is a lot slower than wired, and you can't really use the phone easily when it's charging like that. The 10 has FAR superior audio (at least vs the SD 820 variant), has a larger aperture for the front camera along with OIS, more refined speaker audio, higher manual brightness, USB Type C v3.1, is less bloated, and - this is a big one for me - doesn't require you to hit a home button for fingerprint unlock OR to go home. I don't know why, but I hate pushing down on a button, especially to unlock the device. I'm not arguing that the S7 isn't a great device. That's why I have ordered them both to see which suits me best. I'm just saying that calling the 10 only a "good" phone is a bit unwarranted at this point. HTC put a lot of effort in the right places and left it unlocked from the start, and has pushed updates daily since it launched. Samsung hasn't really innovated much like they could have. Last year's Note5 was a huge showcase of that... nothing new other than the updated design. Click to expand... Click to collapse I dont know whats so amazing about higher manual brightness being higher, i keep mine on auto, and outdoors i can see the screen no problem, the 10 has way worst outdoor visibility. Phones are getting stagnant. The S7Edge is the farthest a device can get as a whole package. Next year is where innovation should be made. Any device that you buy this year will have no problem bolding up beyond 2 yrs. I feel like sammy did the right thing with the s7, its improved in every possible aspect. As i said, the htc 10 is a good device compared to this year's flagships, but its the a great upgrade from the M9 and M8. The htc 10 would be a great phone if priced well. 500$ is the best price for it. It doesnt offer much from the 6p, so it should be priced against it.
I have one more T-Mobile jump until it resets in June. Then I get 3 more upgrades for the year. I'm going to look at the HTC 10 but I don't know if I'll take the leap. Battery life is most important to me and I don't think the 10 will come close to the 8 hours SOT I'm getting with my S7E. Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk
Nitemare3219 said: Are you getting the international S7? Because AFAIK, The US models don't support unlocking/root... so that's a big negative. Also, I never had a good experience using an international Note 5 on T-Mobile USA's network (if you're US based). Each phone has pro's and cons. The S7 is certainly more polished right now, but HTC has been pushing updates daily to fix issues. Performance should ideally be faster on the HTC just because it is less bloated. I really appreciate HTC embracing stock Android as much as possible. I'll give you a quick rundown of my opinion on the devices... I'm having such a hard time deciding, I actually just ordered both and plan on using them back and forth to hopefully decide which I will use until the next Nexus or Note 6. S7E: +Insanely fast autofocus... camera is reliable right now. Better manual controls +Great sunlight brightness +Waterproof +OLED screen +Unique design +Larger screen +Huge battery +Better slow motion video, and 60 FPS video +Wireless charging +UFS storage speeds -micro-USB, v2.0 -TouchWiz -No root capability for US models yet? -Fingerprint reader is slower and must press power button -Curved edges can distort colors (turn blue/green) on white browsing screens HTC 10: +Brighter screen in manual brightness +High fidelity speakers and headphone jack, DAC/amps. High-res audio recording +Lighter OS +Better looking display whites +Type C USB, v3.1 +Unlocked bootloader +Better front and rear camera hardware (bigger pixels, OIS on front - software needs more polishing) +$599 after discount code -eMMC storage speeds -Smaller display -Only splash resilient -Small battery for thickness -No sunlight brightness boost mode -LCD contrast (very good, but still nowhere near OLED) If the 10 were OLED and 5.5", it would have been the perfect phone... Click to expand... Click to collapse Thanks a lot for the comparison. It's really helpful. I'll just get the S7 and the 10 at a go. I'll return either one. BTW I live outside the States. And thanks, everyone for your thoughts.
Nitemare3219 said: Are you getting the international S7? Because AFAIK, The US models don't support unlocking/root... so that's a big negative. Also, I never had a good experience using an international Note 5 on T-Mobile USA's network (if you're US based). Each phone has pro's and cons. The S7 is certainly more polished right now, but HTC has been pushing updates daily to fix issues. Performance should ideally be faster on the HTC just because it is less bloated. I really appreciate HTC embracing stock Android as much as possible. I'll give you a quick rundown of my opinion on the devices... I'm having such a hard time deciding, I actually just ordered both and plan on using them back and forth to hopefully decide which I will use until the next Nexus or Note 6. S7E: +Insanely fast autofocus... camera is reliable right now. Better manual controls +Great sunlight brightness +Waterproof +OLED screen +Unique design +Larger screen +Huge battery +Better slow motion video, and 60 FPS video +Wireless charging +UFS storage speeds -micro-USB, v2.0 -TouchWiz -No root capability for US models yet? -Fingerprint reader is slower and must press power button -Curved edges can distort colors (turn blue/green) on white browsing screens. Click to expand... Click to collapse 100% incorrect. When the phone is in sleep you simply need to press the home button down with a finger/thumb that's been setup and the phone will unlock. The physical pressing of the home button wakes the device then the fingerprint is immediately read. You don't even need to release the button. The power button on the side at no point needs to be touched.
Beefheart said: 100% incorrect. When the phone is in sleep you simply need to press the home button down with a finger/thumb that's been setup and the phone will unlock. The physical pressing of the home button wakes the device then the fingerprint is immediately read. You don't even need to release the button. The power button on the side at no point needs to be touched. Click to expand... Click to collapse Sorry I used the wrong wording. I know you don't have to hit the power button - what I implied was you must hit the home button, physically push it down to wake the device for your fingerprint to be read. If Samsung would have found a way to avoid that requirement, the fingerprint sensor would be a lot more appreciable to me. I dislike the physical home button all together truthfully. I strongly prefer the 10's home button. I've been using the S7E for a few days now. The 10 has been sitting at home, and will likely be getting returned. It's a good phone in a lot of ways. Maybe even a great phone. But every other phone out there is the best at something. The 10 is best at almost nothing, but good/great at everything. Problem is, most of those phones that are the best at something are also good/great at everything else too. My biggest complaint with the 10 is the display. It just sucks compared to OLED. It has crazy motion blur, low brightness below 75%, a pink tint to the entire screen even viewed straight on, and has lesser contrast (but very good contrast for LCD). That combined with the display being SMALL, makes it a loss for me. I just don't want to use it as much as I do the S7E or the 6P. I was really excited about the audio. I was really excited about the camera. I was really excited about the build. It gets all of those things right. But so do the other two phones I mentioned for the most part (headphone audio isn't that good on the S7E, but it's not bad enough to make me not want to use it). With a 5.5" OLED display, the 10 would've been phone of the year in my book, no questions asked.
Oneplus camera on the Le Pro 3 x720?
I am planning to buy the Le Pro 3 x720 and customise it to have a oneplus 3 experience. The LEx720 and OP3 has the same camera sensor and almost same processor (snapdragon 821 for LEx720 & snapdragon 820 for OP3) kimovilDOTcom/en/compare/leeco-le-pro-3-6gb-64gb,oneplus-3-6gb-64gb-cn Yet the x720 camera reviews are less positive in comparison to the OP3. I guess its the processing. 1. So has someone ever tried the Oneplus camera on the LEx720? apkmirrorDOTcom/apk/oneplus-ltd/oneplus-camera/ 2. Is it possible to have some samples comparison please, especially against the google camera? My alternative choice would be the Meizu M6 Note which boasts the same camera as the HTC U11 and it's working pretty great with its Arcsoft algorithm. 3. Based solely on camera, can the LEx720 deliver a better image quality than the Meizu M6 Note? I would really appreciate your views. Thank you all in advance.
I wouldn't say you're guaranteed to get a Sony sensor. Some people here are reporting that their camera isn't working on custom ROMs like Paranoid Android--which means that they have a different camera sensor (I believe custom ROMs for the Pro3 variants are built with Sony drivers, but IDK). The OnePlus 3 camera is miles better than the Pro3 camera simply because OnePlus bothers to put good camera software on their phones. Not iPhone-quality, but definitely up there. When it comes to cameras, software is a lot more important, IMO. That's why the iPhone 6's camera quality holds up today, even though the phone was released in 2014. Name a single Android phone from 2014 with good camera quality today... You are not guaranteed good camera quality from Chinese phones. Some Chinese brands claim to make this a priority, but reviews don't lie. Now, Camera2 API may improve quality, but it really depends. Camera2 API has done wonders for variants of the Xiaomi Note 4 stuck with the inferior Omnivision sensor. It's done even more for variants with Sony and Samsung sensors. And I expect it does well for the Pro3 too, since the Pro3 has a chipset with good image processing. Do your research. Look around the forum and search for camera mods. See if you like the results or not. Camera2 API requires you to root your phone. Sorry, but if you want a flagship-worthy camera experience, you either buy an iPhone 7, 8, or X, a Samsung S8 or Note 8, an OP3T or OP5, or a Pixel phone. Pixel phones have the best smartphone cameras in the market right now, especially the Pixel 2, since it has dedicated hardware for it. I can't think of any other phones that take excellent images no matter where you are or what you're doing. With other brands you'll have to either a) make sure there's enough lighting, b) be in the right place at the right time, or c) do a lot of manual post-processing, which ruins image quality. I'm okay with my x722's image quality. It takes good shots in sunlight. Low-light performance is awful. Pretty typical experience. I don't know which sensor I have, though. I'd have to be rooted to find that out. The Meizu M6 Note has a better sensor. Even if its camera software is awful, it's bound to be better. LeEco doesn't even try with its camera app, so Meizu has to be better.
sk8223 said: I wouldn't say you're guaranteed to get a Sony sensor. Some people here are reporting that their camera isn't working on custom ROMs like Paranoid Android--which means that they have a different camera sensor (I believe custom ROMs for the Pro3 variants are built with Sony drivers, but IDK). The OnePlus 3 camera is miles better than the Pro3 camera simply because OnePlus bothers to put good camera software on their phones. Not iPhone-quality, but definitely up there. When it comes to cameras, software is a lot more important, IMO. That's why the iPhone 6's camera quality holds up today, even though the phone was released in 2014. Name a single Android phone from 2014 with good camera quality today... You are not guaranteed good camera quality from Chinese phones. Some Chinese brands claim to make this a priority, but reviews don't lie. Now, Camera2 API may improve quality, but it really depends. Camera2 API has done wonders for variants of the Xiaomi Note 4 stuck with the inferior Omnivision sensor. It's done even more for variants with Sony and Samsung sensors. And I expect it does well for the Pro3 too, since the Pro3 has a chipset with good image processing. Do your research. Look around the forum and search for camera mods. See if you like the results or not. Camera2 API requires you to root your phone. Sorry, but if you want a flagship-worthy camera experience, you either buy an iPhone 7, 8, or X, a Samsung S8 or Note 8, an OP3T or OP5, or a Pixel phone. Pixel phones have the best smartphone cameras in the market right now, especially the Pixel 2, since it has dedicated hardware for it. I can't think of any other phones that take excellent images no matter where you are or what you're doing. With other brands you'll have to either a) make sure there's enough lighting, b) be in the right place at the right time, or c) do a lot of manual post-processing, which ruins image quality. I'm okay with my x722's image quality. It takes good shots in sunlight. Low-light performance is awful. Pretty typical experience. I don't know which sensor I have, though. I'd have to be rooted to find that out. The Meizu M6 Note has a better sensor. Even if its camera software is awful, it's bound to be better. LeEco doesn't even try with its camera app, so Meizu has to be better. Click to expand... Click to collapse Different camera sensor? Has there been a case? Doing so would be nightmare for device maintenance and unless it is a large scale company with a model that gets sold huge quantities (Samsung and Apple), it would just be a unnecessary headache without any benefit. Camera not working on certain custom roms does not indicate different sensor. Far from it. A missing or extra line on device tree or even in build.prop would cause it. It is true that camera sucks on most of Chinese phones. They've got the hardware but unless you're shooting RAW, end result will be very poor. However, that was the case before Google HDR+ port. That port makes dramatic different. No reason to use OnePlus camera when OnePlus users are rooting for Google HDR+.
4K2K said: Different camera sensor? Has there been a case? Doing so would be nightmare for device maintenance and unless it is a large scale company with a model that gets sold huge quantities (Samsung and Apple), it would just be a unnecessary headache without any benefit. Camera not working on certain custom roms does not indicate different sensor. Far from it. A missing or extra line on device tree or even in build.prop would cause it. Click to expand... Click to collapse Is that so? Sorry, I didn't know that. I thought it strange that the camera would work on ROMs installed on some devices but not others. It is true that camera sucks on most of Chinese phones. They've got the hardware but unless you're shooting RAW, end result will be very poor. However, that was the case before Google HDR+ port. That port makes dramatic different. No reason to use OnePlus camera when OnePlus users are rooting for Google HDR+. Click to expand... Click to collapse Yeah, Gcam changed everything. Now phones with the worst sensors get decent shots, even at night.
How does the 5x/6p camera compare to current flagship phones
When the phone was released, it was in the top tier range of camera phones. When the pixel came, i think it was worse, but still comparable. Now we're 2/3 gens behind, but how much worse off are we really? The most comprehensive camera review site DxO has pixel at 90 and pixel 2 at 98. Nexus camera review was never updated, however we have this to go by. Before the new updated test, the 6p reviews came in at 84 and the pixel came in at 89. The revised tests, pixel got a 90. Now I know that the point system is not linear, but assuming that, the revised review score could be somewhere from 75-85. (We can also make a correlation with their updated iphone 6/7/7+ scores at 75/85/88). As for the software, we've been pretty lucky that the camera features are getting ported to our device, so that's the least of our worries. What do you all think?
For me, taking photos with my 5x has been a good experience. You can really get some high quality image if you try. It seems to take better, clearer photos than the iPhone SE (same cam as 6s, also not a current flagship but I can compare them myself) but I've noticed that the camera doesn't perform well in low light conditions. Compared to today's flagships, night photos in a city aren't that good with my 5X.
The only devices that are better than our cameras are the Pixels, other cameras cant dethrone these due to our HDR+, no matter how hard they try.
Considering other options in price range with better camera
Love this phone but after seeing low light comparisons with an ancient Galaxy s5 I was massively disappointed with the low light photographs, which is important to me (as well as overall camera quality). I've familiarized myself with the custom settings and they still don't provide the desired quality. Considering a 1st gen Google Pixel or Samsung S7 (leaning to the pixel). What phones, including older phones, in a similar price range would be a good trade off?
I don't care about your complaining. Would it help that you compares G5 Plus to 4 years old phone? It makes you feel better? Don't do off topic and just compare phones in the right topic. It's annoying.
maruchandd said: Love this phone but after seeing low light comparisons with an ancient Galaxy s5 I was massively disappointed with the low light photographs, which is important to me (as well as overall camera quality). I've familiarized myself with the custom settings and they still don't provide the desired quality. Considering a 1st gen Google Pixel or Samsung S7 (leaning to the pixel). What phones, including older phones, in a similar price range would be a good trade off? Click to expand... Click to collapse I have the Moto G5plus and I compared the shots to 3 other phones I have access to (not all mine). These are all $200 something. 1. iPhone SE - Out of all budget phones, this makes the best pictures in this price range , the reason I won't get it is because the screen size is just a no-go for me. But camera wise, it's top dog, maybe the Note 5 and the S7 would be beating on it (in $200 range) 2. Honor 7X (I owned this for 2 days and returned it, because it had some defects and I chose not to get another one) This makes great pictures IMO, makes better pics than any moto phone although still not as good as the iphone. 3. Moto ZPlay (1st gen) - Don't get this for camera, actually the G5Plus makes better pictures, the only reason it would look better, because of the AMOLED screen it has, but look at it on a PC or another phone and compare the pics, you'd realize that the G5plus made sharper pictures. The Zplay was a mid-ranger in 2016, don't know how the Z2Play is, but as far as I know it has the same exact camera as the G5plus. Moto uses good cameras, but they just can't get their software processing right. 4. Blackberry Priv. - Despite all the other shortcomings (heats up, not so great battery life) this makes really good pictures, has a curved, hres screen too. 5. iPhone 6S- Same camera as the SE. Again, the reason I don't consider it, is because I had it and I got spoiled by my Note 5 (which I broke and gone now) which was way better and the large screen made me hate my iphone screen. 6. Used Galaxy S7 (or edge, but it's $100 more) this has to be the best shooter if you can find one for $200 as a refurb or used. Same thing with the Galaxy Note 4 or 5. Unless of course you hate touchwiz. 7. If you can find a first gen Pixel, you gonna have a good camera. also LG G6 are going dirt cheap on ebay and it's a 2017 flagship. It has an awesome camera with secondary wide angle shot. As of right now I'm getting an LG G6 soon to replace my G5 Plus. 8. Sony experia - I don't know much about it, although people claiming to make as good or even better pics as the S7. Sony seem to be the primary maker of the best cams on most of smartphones so they won't wimp out on putting a really good one on their own smartphones.
maruchandd said: Love this phone but after seeing low light comparisons with an ancient Galaxy s5 I was massively disappointed with the low light photographs, which is important to me (as well as overall camera quality). I've familiarized myself with the custom settings and they still don't provide the desired quality. Considering a 1st gen Google Pixel or Samsung S7 (leaning to the pixel). What phones, including older phones, in a similar price range would be a good trade off? Click to expand... Click to collapse Dude, this has the same imaging sensor as the S7 and Pixel, but it was held back by crappy (but fixable) software. There's no way in heck an S5 can compare once you've turned on Camera2 and run the Gcam HDR+ exposure. Out of camera the shots hang on my wall next to ones taken with my $3000+ pro DSLR, and editing the RAW images blows me away every time I try tweaking them in lightroom. I call shenanigans. I want to see the examples the OP is talking about, or I lay claim that he is only comparing the crippled stock camera app.