CALL LG CUSTOMER SUPPORT. The phone is under a year old, so the 12 month warranty covers it regardless of how you voided the warranty. I sent mine to Texas, they repaired it (I assume they jtag'd it) and fedex'd it back to me.
Sorry, in a previous mention I instructed to lie and say a friend did it so you don't know how, not only is that wrong, but the pretext of how you bricked your device is irrelevant.
It's quite qood news, but to be honest, due to 'exploiting' warranty like this LG is making devices much harder to unlock. I mean, user f**k up his phone, sends it on warranty with any "I don't know how this happened" story and they have to replace it. Several cases are barely noticeable, but when countless number of people starts to do so, they loose some serious money
Fraud
Vivasanti said:
Fraud
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Seriously.
Amazing how ppl publicly post their fraudulent activity as if they want a high five? Warranty isn't even supposed to transfer from original owner
meyerweb said:
Seriously.
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Fraud - wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain.
So yea
Vivasanti said:
Fraud - wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain.
So yea
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I was agreeing, not doubting.
This is why lg and others do not want to unlock bootloaders.
Sent from my LG-D851 using XDA Free mobile app
I don't see the problem? It's so easy for LG to fix the phone. Just wipe the memory cards and reinstall the appropriate software or just replace the memory card.
They could also use these phones for parts :/
What?
xRamz said:
I don't see the problem? It's so easy for LG to fix the phone. Just wipe the memory cards and reinstall the appropriate software or just replace the memory card.
They could also use these phones for parts :/
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Click to collapse
Just wipe the memory cards and reinstall the software? How long have you been on XDA that you don't even know how a phone operates. If it were as easy as just putting the software on the memory card, then people wouldn't have to send their phones back to LG in the first place. Some morons physically damage the motherboard of their phone by flashing incompatible kernels or firmware and cause heat issues that lead to short circuits. These kind of bricks are much more costly to fix than a software issue (which is call a soft-brick btw, a hard-brick is when the phone is in an unrecoverable state). It is people like you and the OP that keep companies like LG locking their boot loaders down. They're too worried about idiots like you messing their phone up and then screwing LG by claiming you don't know which idiot put software on your phone, knowing very well it is YOUR fault. As others have stated, it is quite shocking how many people are willing to brag about their illegal activity on a publicly available forum.
acparker18 said:
Just wipe the memory cards and reinstall the software? How long have you been on XDA that you don't even know how a phone operates. If it were as easy as just putting the software on the memory card, then people wouldn't have to send their phones back to LG in the first place. Some morons physically damage the motherboard of their phone by flashing incompatible kernels or firmware and cause heat issues that lead to short circuits. These kind of bricks are much more costly to fix than a software issue (which is call a soft-brick btw, a hard-brick is when the phone is in an unrecoverable state). It is people like you and the OP that keep companies like LG locking their boot loaders down. They're too worried about idiots like you messing their phone up and then screwing LG by claiming you don't know which idiot put software on your phone, knowing very well it is YOUR fault. As others have stated, it is quite shocking how many people are willing to brag about their illegal activity on a publicly available forum.
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Haha alright bud calm down. What I was trying to say is I'm sure it's easy as hell for LG to repair the phone or replace a component. If I'm wrong how about teaching me rather than throwing insults hmm?
xRamz said:
Haha alright bud calm down. What I was trying to say is I'm sure it's easy as hell for LG to repair the phone or replace a component. If I'm wrong how about teaching me rather than throwing insults hmm?
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Maybe people like you and the OP should stop supporting illegal activity that harms the entire development community by encouraging phone manufacturers to lock down bootloaders. So no I will not teach you because if you screw something up you'll just give these manufacturers another reason to make it harder for us to unlock their next device.
f2bacon said:
MODERATOR EDIT: XDA RULES
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Yea not sure why you would want people to do that????
Definitely not for XDA
~/$ THREADCLOSED.sh
oposiasty said:
It's quite qood news, but to be honest, due to 'exploiting' warranty like this LG is making devices much harder to unlock. I mean, user f**k up his phone, sends it on warranty with any "I don't know how this happened" story and they have to replace it. Several cases are barely noticeable, but when countless number of people starts to do so, they loose some serious money
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
acparker18 said:
Maybe people like you and the OP should stop supporting illegal activity that harms the entire development community by encouraging phone manufacturers to lock down bootloaders. So no I will not teach you because if you screw something up you'll just give these manufacturers another reason to make it harder for us to unlock their next device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What about this is illegal? Maybe in my case because I purposely bought a bricked phone but many people paid a good amount of money for phones that are no longer functional. That sucks, and considering LG has no issue fixing it, it's obviously under warranty, or I'd like to think they'd really bust my balls about it.
Maybe if the bootloader wasn't still locked people would be soft bricking their devices, instead of hard bricking. In my opinion if you want a phone that fights you in customization get an iphone, and stay off xda. This is where people make actual tutorials on how to purposely void your warranty.
=f2bacon;56020451]What about this is illegal? Maybe in my case because I purposely bought a bricked phone but many people paid a good amount of money for phones that are no longer functional. That sucks, and considering LG has no issue fixing it, it's obviously under warranty, or I'd like to think they'd really bust my balls about it.
Maybe if the bootloader wasn't still locked people would be soft bricking their devices, instead of hard bricking. In my opinion if you want a phone that fights you in customization get an iphone, and stay off xda. This is where people make actual tutorials on how to purposely void your warranty.[/QUOTE]
It's not a matter of legality regarding just voiding the warranty it's about fraud and purposefully lying about how you screwed your phone up after you read a legal agreement that stated you were knowingly abolishing your rights to your warranty by performing certain actions. The worst part is that this is a prime example of what LG is trying to stop by locking bootloaders. So this kind of behavior, regardless of being in protest or not, only adds fuel to the fire for LG. I apologize if I was rude but I just don't like seeing this kind of information on a public forum that LG definitely monitors and will look to for excuses to make it harder on all of us in the future.
acparker18 said:
lying about how you screwed your phone up after you read a legal agreement that stated you were knowingly abolishing your rights to your warranty by performing certain actions.
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I didn't screw my phone up, someone else did, and sold it on ebay, for a pretty cheap price. I bought it with the intent of fixing it, couldn't, found out its covered by warranty, and sent it to LG to fix. I admit I'm definitely taking advantage of the warranty, and I guess I did break the legal agreement regarding the warranty, but it turns out I didn't have to. I could've just said "Hi, my phone is broken. I need an RMA #, and an address to send my phone to"
f2bacon said:
I didn't screw my phone up, someone else did, and sold it on ebay, for a pretty cheap price. I bought it with the intent of fixing it, couldn't, found out its covered by warranty, and sent it to LG to fix. I admit I'm definitely taking advantage of the warranty, and I guess I did break the legal agreement regarding the warranty, but it turns out I didn't have to. I could've just said "Hi, my phone is broken. I need an RMA #, and an address to send my phone to"
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You're missing the entire point. This kind of behavior is harmful to the entire development community and just gives phone manufacturers incentive to keep us from being free to do what we want with our device in the future. Regardless of how you view the legality of the situation, you sent a phone back to LG knowing the warranty had already been voided by someone else. This is the exact reason that boot loaders are locked and our phones don't allow root access without exploits. Phone manufacturers see people like you who knowingly send in a user damaged phone and end up costing LG more money to repair it. Whether or not you think this hurts LG monetarily is aside the point. To those at LG, this is a problem that is solved by trying to keep people from making modifications like this to their phone at all, and that is the way LG is going to view the situation for the foreseeable future. So whether or not you violated warranty agreements or broke any laws doesn't matter now and I know that no further action will be taken, but what does matter is the fact that threads and advice like yours are only going to hurt the relationship between phone manufacturers and the indie developer community. If you are going to do this kind of thing, well I can't stop you. However, I do ask that you not publicly post your taking advantage of the system as it only causes more tension between us and the companies that make the devices we are trying keep from being locked down in the first place.
But no matter what, people are going to bork their own phones, bootloader locked or not. By having the bootloader unlocked it wouldn't be a hard bricked situation, and they wouldn't have to inhouse jtag these devices. And more importantly what do you suggest? That the people who paid $700 for a phone, that tried something like installing xposed on a phone without root or something, should just be happy with their brick? I mean sure it's their responsibility, their phone, but they come to developers, to see how to fix it, and if it's soft bricked they can fix it themselves, or have some dingus fix it for them. I'm just pointing out LG will fix it. If they start noticing damn so many people are sending back hard bricked devices, maybe they should make it so that doesn't happen. Don't lie about voiding your warranty, just don't mention it. At no point did they ask how it was bricked.
I'm not trying to debate the ethics, I'm just saying LG can and will fix hard bricked g3's for free. For the many other people who are just holding a $700 literal brick, there is a fix.
f2bacon said:
But no matter what, people are going to bork their own phones, bootloader locked or not. By having the bootloader unlocked it wouldn't be a hard bricked situation, and they wouldn't have to inhouse jtag these devices. And more importantly what do you suggest? That the people who paid $700 for a phone, that tried something like installing xposed on a phone without root or something, should just be happy with their brick? I mean sure it's their responsibility, their phone, but they come to developers, to see how to fix it, and if it's soft bricked they can fix it themselves, or have some dingus fix it for them. I'm just pointing out LG will fix it. If they start noticing damn so many people are sending back hard bricked devices, maybe they should make it so that doesn't happen. Don't lie about voiding your warranty, just don't mention it. At no point did they ask how it was bricked.
I'm not trying to debate the ethics, I'm just saying LG can and will fix hard bricked g3's for free. For the many other people who are just holding a $700 literal brick, there is a fix.
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The solution is, if someone bricks their phone by messing with it then they pay the repair.
Believe it or not it costs lg big money to cope with things like this and this is why they keep it locked.
Sent from my LG-D851 using XDA Free mobile app
Richieboy67 said:
The solution is, if someone bricks their phone by messaging with it then they pay the repair.
Believe it or not it costs lg big money to cope with things like this and this is edgy they keep it locked.
Sent from my LG-D851 using XDA Free mobile app
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But by keeping it locked, they're making it a bigger issue! If the bootloader wasn't locked, users could get into recovery mode. Hard bricks would be soft bricks, and the fix would be easier, regardless of who does it.
Related
if your thinking of buying a droid x and rooting it then think again http://www.mobilecrunch.com/2010/07/14/droid-x-actually-self-destructs-if-you-try-to-mod-it/ . if you dont care to root it then disregard this. if you try to even root it you will brick it!?!?!? why would they do that????
If you'd rather not support your product if someone else meddles with it, that's totally fine. Void their warranties; don't kill your own product to spite them.
You are not inventors. You are profiteers afraid of people, at home, doing what you do better than you.
And maybe you should be.
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- Mark Wilson [email protected]
They're using open source software and afraid of the open source community doing what they do better than they do it.
Shame on Moto, good thing I love Htc anyways.
I r n00b.
Sent from my (able to be rooted)Hero CDMA using XDA App
Just saw that on reddit. That's nasty..q
Wonder when HTC will try doing this. :-/
Kcarpenter said:
Wonder when HTC will try doing this. :-/
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Well if HTC starts doing that, then you can bet Android be screwed over because no one is going to buy them anymore. So the companies that decide to do crap like this are just screwing themselves over.
Kcarpenter said:
Wonder when HTC will try doing this. :-/
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The same week I buy an iPhone.
illogic6 said:
The same week I buy an iPhone.
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That's like trading one jail cell for another.
dam that rly sucks, but im sure they will figure out ways around it
subcypher said:
That's like trading one jail cell for another.
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Click to collapse
It is fairly easy to jailbreak an iphone these days... my dad jailbroke his 3gs a few days after he got it and he is the guy who's VCR always flashed 12:00...
It's all fear mongering. It's the same protection as Milestone devices and the Droid. All of them have the OMAP3 eFuse.
Look up Steven Bird's blog (I can't post links yet) he explains it. Said that it's more than likely not to brick the phone. He's got donations up and going now to try and get one to test it himself.
Yup, this FUD has been debunked. Enough with the eFuse DROID X Talk Already
The response from Motorola was that it wouldn't "brick" the phone, but if the efuse was triggered it would render the phone unusable until it was repaired with motorola software. Which pretty much means the folks here at XDA will likely find a way around the efuse without too much trouble
tatonka_hero said:
The response from Motorola was that it wouldn't "brick" the phone, but if the efuse was triggered it would render the phone unusable until it was repaired with motorola software. Which pretty much means the folks here at XDA will likely find a way around the efuse without too much trouble
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I bet someone will leak the "motorola software" just like the RUU's have been leaked from HTC.
mrinehart93 said:
I bet someone will leak the "motorola software" just like the RUU's have been leaked from HTC.
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Or they could, I dunno, download it from Motorola's site. Really, all they're doing is a checksum and giving you the opportunity to flash an RUU if they don't match. No Moto repair required.
Wow Motorola, way to go... u just scared off about 3/4 of u'r customers right there. Talk about BS limiting a user on what he/she is able to load on to HIS/HER own phone. Ridiculous!
It's not FUD. It may not "brick" the phone, but it's another attempt to stop the end user, the person that legally purchased the phone, from tinkering with it. Just as the quote I posted above says, they're not inventors. They are profiteers afraid of people, at home, doing what they do better than them.
My friend and I had this conversation the other day. He stated that Sprint has a right to protect their network and any phone they sell you with a discount for buying a plan. He is correct, to a point. Sprint doesn't want us using our phones for more than they give us (despite claims of "unlimited" data) because they have to protect their profit margins. They also don't want us tinkering with our phones because we, tinkerers, could break them. Insurance doesn't cover "tinkering". Sprint is taking a huge up-front hit by selling us the phone as cheap as they do but they recoup that cost by locking us into 2-year contracts. They need to keep us in those contracts to turn a profit. So, I feel they have a right to protect that until the contract is up.
Or, on the other hand, those that purchase their phones outright, without contracts and without subsidies, should have the right to tinker all they like... including the consequences.
E-fuse, what?
I still don't believe it was FUD because of the reasons I mentioned above, but it was successfully bypassed.
EDIT: The e-fuse wasn't bypassed. They got root, which isn't watched by the e-fuse. Putting a new ROM on the phone would, though. Getting root is a start, though, and should allow them to figure out how the e-fuse works. Then I'm sure they can bypass it. It'll just take some more time.
Droid X Rooted
Like there was any doubt! Devs > Motorola
http://business-news.thestreet.com/...a/667729680-new-gov-t-rules-allow-unapproved/
http://www.loc.gov/today/pr/2010/10-169.html
That's not going to change anything...There might be more companies that unlock phones, but providers can still lock their devices, and they still have the right to void the warranty after a device has been unlocked...
I guess a good step though.
Also prohibited is technically impede access to the user in the software core of the
chris_knows said:
That's not going to change anything...There might be more companies that unlock phones, but providers can still lock their devices, and they still have the right to void the warranty after a device has been unlocked...
I guess a good step though.
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Also prohibited is technically impede access to the user in the software core of the device, and block the changes.
www.gizmodo.com/5596671/why-legal-iphone-unlocking-and-jailbreaking-doesnt-matter-that-much
Now they don't fear it.
chris_knows said:
www.gizmodo.com/5596671/why-legal-iphone-unlocking-and-jailbreaking-doesnt-matter-that-much
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Although I understand the gist of this article. I still have to say that making it legal opens a lot more doors.
I know a few "programmers" that don't touch "illegal" things like jailbreaking cause of fear. Now they don't fear it.
I'm sure many others will feel relieved and will start working on this to make it better, simpler, and maybe discover new methods.
irkkso said:
Although I understand the gist of this article. I still have to say that making it legal opens a lot more doors.
I know a few "programmers" that don't touch "illegal" things like jailbreaking cause of fear. Now they don't fear it.
I'm sure many others will feel relieved and will start working on this to make it better, simpler, and maybe discover new methods.
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Click to collapse
I totally agree with that...
Cell phone companies will always find another way to screw you, though haha.
This might come off as me preaching here, but I hope I don't come across as high-handed...
If you have a hardware button sequence locked Vibrant you really need to think long and hard about whether or not you should be messing with custom firmwares, ESPECIALLY NOW.
The last few leaked firmwares (JI2, JI4, JI5) are ALL RUNNING A NEW KERNEL. One that is not compatible with JFD derived builds. Furthermore these great new custom kernels provided by our awesome dev's (Voodoo, JAC, Kingclick, etc...) are not compatible with these new leaked builds. So the likelihood of you ending up staring at a really scary screen on your phone is skyrocketing, unless you have reliable methods to deal with that scary screen.
I've ran across numerous posts here today, with all the fervor over the JI5 Kies leak, where people have Clockwork Recovered themselves into a nightmare because they simply didn't understand these points. Even simpler MOD's (like a few posts I found today where people were installing the JFD version of the MobileAP mod on JIx builds and screwing their phones up) can lead to grief if you don't do your homework.
If you cannot reliably get into recovery *AND* download mode, please please be sure you understand the risks your taking if you fail to be careful and read the information that is already here. Granted, I know few people can keep up with some of us and our ability to soak up info like a sponge. Still there is a process of risk assessment YOU MUST BE RESPONSIBLE FOR when you realize you are doing things that you probably shouldn't be.
This doesn't mean I won't continue trying to be helpful. I just want to make it clear to some of you that you really need to think things through more thoroughly before you let your excitement drive you into a corner.
I vote for the following statement to be made a sticky in this and the Q&A Forum...
"If you are updating firmware on a phone, and you've already hacked this and that, tweaked this and that, modified this and that...whatever the case may be you should be prepared to have to Odin your way back to stock.
If you are not prepared to Odin your way back to stock (don't know how, have a hardware button locked phone, etc...) then you should really be asking yourself whether or not you should be customizing your phone to the degree that you are.
It's just about risk assessment. Most risks are known, but some are not. Furthermore there can be bad synergies between multiple tweaks, mods, and/or hacks that no one can easily predict ahead of time. So it's not about anyone trying to be elitist. The best way to help people is to help them avoid making critical mistakes."
actually if u have a hardware locked phone, what you SHOULD do is call tmobile right now and complain that ur phone is defective and they'll send u a new one... keep doing this till u get a working phone, i did and i now have a phone that isn't HL'ed... only took one try
ookas said:
actually if u have a hardware locked phone, what you SHOULD do is call tmobile right now and complain that ur phone is defective and they'll send u a new one... keep doing this till u get a working phone, i did and i now have a phone that isn't HL'ed... only took one try
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Indeed!!!
The hardware locked Galaxy S thing appears to be a bootloader bug affecting more than just our Vibrants (some other batches of Galaxy S phones are affected) rather than a real hardware issue, so T-Mobile should be able to get these fixed readily. Not like we should care about T-Mobile here, but what this means also is that T-Mobile shouldn't be making a huge deal about swapping these out either.
I'd encourage everyone with a button-sequence screwed Vibrant to simply go to T-Mobile and get it replaced.
Admittedly, I was one of those fools who installed the wrong MobileAp and also tried to go back to a nandroid that didn't work (different kernel - or so I have learned.) Bricked the phone. But I wasn't hardware locked so I was able to get everything back thanks to some really helpful people here on the forum.
I agree that all hardware locked phones should be returned. If mine were locked then I'd still be staring at a dead phone.
I would like to add that I am new to the android thing. But, I am not a software noob (i did software testing for a living). The thing is that I am sometimes impulsive and that leads to mistakes. Thankfully, I have a way to get out of the mistakes (ODIN and non-hardware locked phone.) I always know the risk I am taking and take full responsibility for anything I screw up.
How can I tell if I have a hardware-locked phone, without attempting to flash a ROM, I mean?
Thanks
aad4321 said:
i have a hardware locked phone that i unlocked and have a custom recovery on. I have only accessed the recovery through rom manger. is there any other way to access it with hardware locked? If so can someone post details. it will be good to know when i mess up my phone and it dosent boot preventing me from accessing rom manager to get to the recovery
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Click to collapse
you didn't unlock the hardware. You just simply rooted your phone. Hardware lock can not be unlocked and that's what this thread is trying to address. I have tried exchanging my phone from tmo once and the exchange phone they sent me still had the same problem, so i haven't bother with it. I wonder if i can just walk into a store and do an exchange since i got my phone from tmo online. Anyways, if you have a hardware locked phone, stick with roms that will flash through clockworks. That is the safest way, but keep in mind that there is still a slight chance of failure.
BruceElliott said:
How can I tell if I have a hardware-locked phone, without attempting to flash a ROM, I mean?
Thanks
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Never mind; I figured it out.
Man, I'm glad I read your post on hardware-locked problems. I didn't even realise this was a problem until after I dicked around with my phone a bunch, and then ended up reflashing with odin back to stock. I could have messed up big time.
My problem is that I can't replace my phone at all. I purchased a T-Mobile Samsung Vibrant online, brand new, unopened and locked for use here in Canada on the Wind Mobile network.
After hearing about this defective hardware I called T-Mobile, they said I have no warranty with them since it wasn't a T-mobile store purchase. Alright I guess. So they give me the number to Samsung USA,USA transfers me to Canada, I get transferred back again and this is what I'm stuck with.
My new phone has NO warranty, in either country. Both refuse to honour any sort of warranty, and refer to the other for support. I didn't think I'd get this sort of run around from Samsung.
USA says that because I live in Canada, I voided the warranty.,
Canada says that because it's a USA device, and I didn't purchase an international warranty, they won't touch it.
I'll just have to be careful what I install on my phone, and avoid Samsung products in the future.
Thanks for the warning
I wouldn't say your lack of warranty is any surprise. I don't know about Canada, but in the US, phone warranty is normally tied to the carrier, which means if you're not an active customer using the phone on the account that it was first activated on, you will have no warranty. Nothing special about Samsung here, all brands are the same.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
cwoodworth said:
Man, I'm glad I read your post on hardware-locked problems. I didn't even realise this was a problem until after I dicked around with my phone a bunch, and then ended up reflashing with odin back to stock. I could have messed up big time.
My problem is that I can't replace my phone at all. I purchased a T-Mobile Samsung Vibrant online, brand new, unopened and locked for use here in Canada on the Wind Mobile network.
After hearing about this defective hardware I called T-Mobile, they said I have no warranty with them since it wasn't a T-mobile store purchase. Alright I guess. So they give me the number to Samsung USA,USA transfers me to Canada, I get transferred back again and this is what I'm stuck with.
My new phone has NO warranty, in either country. Both refuse to honour any sort of warranty, and refer to the other for support. I didn't think I'd get this sort of run around from Samsung.
USA says that because I live in Canada, I voided the warranty.,
Canada says that because it's a USA device, and I didn't purchase an international warranty, they won't touch it.
I'll just have to be careful what I install on my phone, and avoid Samsung products in the future.
Thanks for the warning
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Click to collapse
Other companies will do the same thing. Warranties are country specific, no?
I don't know how it works with mobile phones, but whenever I've purchased computer parts, the country of origin has never been a problem. Maybe I've just been lucky.
Still have gripes about GPS, and lack of 2.2 though.
Don't misunderstand me though, I love this phone. Just surprised about the hardware issues.
I called Samsung today after tmobile rep gave me a number for warranty. After complaining and speaking to a supervisor, they said i could send it in and they would "fix" it. This is what they sent in the email.
Product Symptoms : Technical Inquiry/Internal Menu/Software Reflash - FOC/No fee. The Samsung Rep said a technician would look at it.
I got a shipping label and everything.
I have one question. How should i go about reflashing to stock? can i just factory reset + remove superusers. please help.
cwoodworth said:
I don't know how it works with mobile phones, but whenever I've purchased computer parts, the country of origin has never been a problem. Maybe I've just been lucky.
Still have gripes about GPS, and lack of 2.2 though.
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Click to collapse
PC parts aren't as tightly controlled as mobile phones. That's the difference.
GPS and Froyo should be coming soon. I doubt if Samsung would let their best mobile phones fall behind by much. From the leaked firmwares popping up, it shows they're working on it.
IRT this article:
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-sour...r-android-becoming-a-political-liability/7588
Just wondering about T-Mobile's stance in essentially going against this by openly preventing customization of the OS, if this is enforceable and if they are in fact in violation of anything at this point. Thoughts?
Is this something that could lead to a class-action lawsuit..? Just curious. Looked and didn't see if there were any other threads related to this issue.. if there is, sorry for the redundancy.
Hate to be an the apologist here, but I just don't see how this is T-Mobile's fault.
That claim could have passed a month-two ago, but now we have the Desire HD and Desire Z which have similar/same protections yet are unbranded, simfree HTC devices. It definitely seems like this was more of an HTC idea that T-Mobile embraced.
Pickx said:
Hate to be an the apologist here, but I just don't see how this is T-Mobile's fault.
That claim could have passed a month-two ago, but now we have the Desire HD and Desire Z which have similar/same protections yet are unbranded, simfree HTC devices. It definitely seems like this was more of an HTC idea that T-Mobile embraced.
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Agreed.
Overall this isn't T-Mo's fault and we shouldn't be pointing the finger at them. HTC is the culprit. It will be interesting to see if anything comes of this.
My original understanding of this "agreement" was that Apple/Microsoft/Google couldn't sue the people that jailbroke/rooted/hacked the phones. Meaning, the jailbreakers of the iPhone could literally parade in front of Job's face that "Hey, I am the one who created the jailbreak software" and Apple couldn't sue them. I didn't think the "agreement" had anything to do with companies preventing such customizations. Maybe I just missed it.
I would much rather see these eFuse type chips and what not go away. I understand that root shouldn't be a push button option but a few hours of work by a smart dev should be enough of a deterrent from your avg joe to prevent random bricks.
I agree with what is above - this is in no way T-Mobile's fault. Also, this is a repost as well.
have you guys ever heard "you are the company you keep" or "aiding and abetting" or "accessory to...." bottom line t-mobile has their name branded on the phone and in the phone. they knew about this sh*t so they are just as responsible. trust me i've had my run in's with the law a couple of time to know how technical stuff like this gets.
t-mobile knew what was in the phone when they received it and even before so why shouldn't they be held just as responsible. If my name and signature is on a product I sell and endorse then why shouldn't I be held responsible? Its common sense
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA App
t-mobile has responsibilities for any t-mobile branded phone
I have faith the G2 will be fully rooted, in spite of HTC and/or T-Mobile.....HTC really pulled a Motorola on this one (trying to lock the phone up)....I have no doubt that if t-mobile pushed HTC an easy root solution could easily be forthcoming, but T-mobile is just playing the 'not my fault' bs game....
I have to be content knowing the G2 is the best Android phone currently on the market, and that the dev community will defeat root (once radio/hboot is fully dealt with....)....at least VISIONARY temp root allows easy wireless tether and Titanium in the meantime....
Its wrong. As soon as you buy something and becomes yours nobody should tell you how to use it or what to use it for. If I buy a phone to wipe my ass that shouldn't be tmobiles bussines. All they should be worried about is to sell phones and give services, but forbidding ppl to do what they want with what's theirs its very very wrong....and idiotic
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA App
bigstunta101 said:
have you guys ever heard "you are the company you keep" or "aiding and abetting" or "accessory to...." bottom line t-mobile has their name branded on the phone and in the phone. they knew about this sh*t so they are just as responsible. trust me i've had my run in's with the law a couple of time to know how technical stuff like this gets.
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All they did was slap their name on something HTC created. You can't tell me you actually hold T-Mo responsible for something they didn't engineer? If they knew about it and didn't like it what do you think HTC would have done? Gone to ATT or switched it to a CDMA radio... oh wait they already basically have a copy cat coming out for Verizon. HTC can deal without selling through T-Mo. They'll survive.
nighthawk626 said:
t-mobile knew what was in the phone when they received it and even before so why shouldn't they be held just as responsible. If my name and signature is on a product I sell and endorse then why shouldn't I be held responsible? Its common sense
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA App
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You're common sense misleads you.
If you think T-Mo really has ANY influence over HTC you are mistaken. HTC sells through all 4 of the major carriers. They would just take their "G2" somewhere else. Blame the person that engineered the phone not the carrier to prints their name on it and throws a SIM card in it.
gaalaagaa said:
Its wrong. As soon as you buy something and becomes yours nobody should tell you how to use it or what to use it for. If I buy a phone to wipe my ass that shouldn't be tmobiles bussines. All they should be worried about is to sell phones and give services, but forbidding ppl to do what they want with what's theirs its very very wrong....and idiotic
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA App
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One problem...
There is a pesky thing called a warranty. If T-Mo/HTC provide a warranty, which they do, then they are obligated to fix/exchange a phone which cannot perform for its intended use. So if you bought a phone, rooted it, and royally F'ed it up because you are stupid and don't know what you are going you could then take it back to T-Mo and say it doesn't do what I bought it for and they would be obligated to fix it/provide a working one.
Consequently, to ensure as few people as possible root it they locked it down with this read-only NAND. They are protecting their arse.
Do I agree with it? No but I understand why they do what they do.
Warranty exchanges costs HTC money... so they want to ensure that as few warranty claims as possible are related to idiots doing something they shouldn't be or don't comprehend what they are doing.
It's a money game... nothing more nothing less.
@superfly u must work for tmobile and they must pay you good. Tmobile just cares about their damn money and sales. This ain't volunteer work for hurricane HTC. They are paid to sell the damn phones. Nobody put a gun to their head and told them to sell it. They are in it all the way even if all they did was slap their name on it. It officially states "hey I'm endorsing this product and all it comes with" endorsement comes with being held equally responsible. Just like in elections whatever one person in the party does that messes things up could ruin the whole party therefore everyone is held responsible even if they were on vacation when it happened. Here in the military that I'm in, its called accountability. There's no way of arguing your way out of something you are in ties with because it obviously has your imprints all over it. Simple as that
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA App
My dear brown nose friend Superfly:
IF tmobile cant handle that then they should close the company. Im sorry. I do as i please with what i paid for.Warranty only covers some things "which most of the time covers nothing" If i decide to wipe my ass with it then warranty wont cover it, if i decide to root it and brick it warranty wont cover it as simple as that...but then again i should do as i please with what is mine. We all know they could care less about you effin up your phone, all they want is being able to control what kind of os you got and bla bla bla only for sales porpuses.
When T-mo put thier name on it, they take all responsibility that comes with it.
First off, the article is trying to put blame on google... I just want to know how they cam e around to that. It feels like such a biased article. And how come there's no mention of Apple's practices? Or mentions of RIM? On top of that, it's already been said that this "rootkit" is bunked. Security measures are for the safety of the phone, usually. Why do they need to lock out the phone? You can cause a lot of havoc on the network with root access. (in fact, I kinda remember reading about an app that did just that when installed on rooted phones) It's in the interest of the customers to actually provide these security features. Just because we, as the technically inclined, get it, doesn't mean the average user should be punished.
nighthawk626 said:
@superfly u must work for tmobile and they must pay you good.
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I work for a public accounting firm and I'm a CPA... want to try again?
nighthawk626 said:
Tmobile just cares about their damn money and sales. This ain't volunteer work for hurricane HTC. They are paid to sell the damn phones.
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They make their money providing service for the phones they sell...
nighthawk626 said:
Nobody put a gun to their head and told them to sell it. They are in it all the way even if all they did was slap their name on it.
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This is just silly. T-Mo might exchange handsets but all the costs end up back on HTC depending on their agreement.
nighthawk626 said:
It officially states "hey I'm endorsing this product and all it comes with" endorsement comes with being held equally responsible.
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Again, do you think they had any part in the dev of the phone?
nighthawk626 said:
Just like in elections whatever one person in the party does that messes things up could ruin the whole party therefore everyone is held responsible even if they were on vacation when it happened. Here in the military that I'm in, its called accountability. There's no way of arguing your way out of something you are in ties with because it obviously has your imprints all over it. Simple as that
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA App
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Really? it's that simple?
So does Verizon, T-Mo, AT&T and Sprint take the fall for the Galaxy S debacle? They all have the same issue and all the customers are pissed off for the same reason so it is the carrier's fault? No, it is Samsung's fault. The fault lies with the person who made the phone and the software on the phone. Samsung should be held accountable for their failure of a phone... just like HTC should be held accountable if they are indeed in violation of this accord.
gaalaagaa said:
My dear brown nose friend Superfly:
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I have 0 loyalties to T-Mo. This is actually the first T-Mo phone I've owned. In the past 3 years I've moved from VZW to ATT to Sprint to VZW to T-Mo. I don't give a crap about any carrier specifically. Moving on.
gaalaagaa said:
IF tmobile cant handle that then they should close the company.
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Handle what exactly?
gaalaagaa said:
Im sorry. I do as i please with what i paid for. Warranty only covers some things "which most of the time covers nothing" If i decide to wipe my ass with it then warranty wont cover it, if i decide to root it and brick it warranty wont cover it as simple as that...but then again i should do as i please with what is mine.
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And what happens when someone roots their phone and takes it back and whines and biotches until they get a replacement? People abuse the warranty system which is why things are so tight these days. I don't disagree with your position, I wish I could basically "one click root" on day 0. It would be sweet but that's not the way the world is.
gaalaagaa said:
We all know they could care less about you effin up your phone, all they want is being able to control what kind of os you got and bla bla bla only for sales porpuses.
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Only for sales purposes? There are 100 other reasons for control over the content besides "sales". What does "sales" even include?
asarousi said:
When T-mo put thier name on it, they take all responsibility that comes with it.
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Bull... I completely disagree with this. If their customizations caused problems then yes it is their fault but just because their put their name on it doesn't make it their fault. HTC designed, manufactured and marketed the phone... T-Mo printed their name on the glass and provided you with service. That's it.
LOL...another "class-action?" thread. Why not take the initiative and start the class action process if you are so curious about it? Speak to a lawyer, read up on the requirements for a class-action suit. I don't think anyone in a forum is gonna actually do that.
For all you people *****in about the locked nand Stop *****in about it yesh. Don't like it get another phone. There are plenty of other phones you can root and such.
Nobody is saying that tmobile made the phone but don't sit there and tell me that when they were picking this phone as part of their lineup, they didn't play with it or even look at it at all. Bottom line is they knew what was in the phone, I'm sure they were hoping the hinge issue wouldn't blow up like it did and also they knew about rooting and tethering some that's why I'm sure they continued to put it in their line up. It wasn't just tossed on their lap. They have phone testers and possibly hired rooters and devs to test how rootable this phone is. Either way they are accountable
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA App
Bull crap. Ill buy the phone i want and root the phone i want because i want. Point blank
Nobody has forbidden anyone to root this phone. They made it hard to do and they put up a very clever stumbling block, but they didn't forbid it.
You can crack the phone open and look at every part of it, nobody will stop you, but they don't have to put a button on the side that makes it fall apart so that you can do it easily.
Similarly, if the community figures out the mechanism used to protect the ROM, then you can root it and install the software you want, but that doesn't mean the manufacturer or carrier are required to make it easy for you to do so.
The zdnet article cites the recent DMCA exclusion as meaning that we have the right to put whatever software we want on the phone. That exclusion provided no such right. It says that the federal courts will not prosecute us for defeating electronic protections in the phone - it doesn't make it illegal for the manufacturers to put those protections in the phone in the first place.
It's like a law limiting the penalties for jumping a fence - such a law wouldn't make fences themselves illegal. In fact, such a law would likely lead to fences that are harder to jump since the property owners could no longer rely on threat of prosecution to keep people from trying. Similarly, the DMCA exclusion is leading to electronic protections that are harder to crack because they are now the only line of defense.
Also, if they sold you a general computing device, but restricted the software you could put on it, then we would have a right to complain because a device isn't a very general computing device if it only runs canned software. Unfortunately, T-Mobile sold us a phone and the phone has to make calls primarily, and a smartphone further should provide some data access for the phone and, nowadays, the ability to install apps through a designed mechanism. There is nothing about the class of device that we were sold that implies the ability to run an arbitrary firmware or system software. They may not be able to stop us from doing that, but they don't have to allow it.
Consider that even in a general computing device, like a PC, there are parts that run software that you cannot modify. The firmware on DVD or Blu-Ray drives tends to be fairly locked down. Nobody cries fowl about that because the DVD/BR drive was sold for the purpose of reading (and sometimes writing) approved discs, not as a general computing device that will run whatever software you choose to load on it...
Gaalaagaa,
So with that logic, you can buy, let's say any car and then just decide that because "you want" or "you can" you'll remove the stock engine and drop in anything you want and then expect the manufacturer to cover it no matter what.
I'm all for root and using my G2 how I please, but that statement is moronic.
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA App
Please sign this petition to put a stop to htc and their locked bootloaders. Takes 5secs. Even if your not getting this phone you should still sign it, so this wont happen to fututure phones.
http://www.groubal.com/htc-bootloaders-and-nand/
http://www.groubal.com/htc-bootloaders-and-nand/
Already signed and added to sig, thanks.
Signed allredy. Hope in the future we have free Android.
thanks for this. signed up. they just lost a Sensation customer because of this.
Come on people. Hit this up
Bump again..
this is just wasting of time.... you need to grow up people.
greg17477 said:
this is just wasting of time.... you need to grow up people.
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That didn't even make sense. Dumbest thing I heard all day. Thanks for the laugh. Anyways back on topic, hit this up.
greg17477 said:
this is just wasting of time.... you need to grow up people.
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In a way, it may be. If you think of it, MOST HTC phones come with locked bootloaders. If you have not seen already, please read:
http://androidforums.com/evo-3d-all...otloader-but-its-big-problem.html#post2725969
I signed the groubal anyway
Signed...................
e334 said:
In a way, it may be. If you think of it, MOST HTC phones come with locked bootloaders. If you have not seen already, please read:
http://androidforums.com/evo-3d-all...otloader-but-its-big-problem.html#post2725969
I signed the groubal anyway
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Yes, its an interresting post. But this concerns mostly (if not only) us the customisers. But the avarage Joe (which is like 99,9% of the sold phones) is happy with the phone as it comes and he doesnt need open or unlocked bootloader or phone. The point is, the avarage Joe is save from bricking his phone and thats a good thing from Joes point of view and also from the phone manufacturers (they want to sell phones, not swap the damaged ones). Ofcourse i would like to get open bootloader or phone straight out of the box, but i fully understand why the companies do not want it.
greg17477 said:
Yes, its an interresting post. But this concerns mostly (if not only) us the customisers. But the avarage Joe (which is like 99,9% of the sold phones) is happy with the phone as it comes and he doesnt need open or unlocked bootloader or phone. The point is, the avarage Joe is save from bricking his phone and thats a good thing from Joes point of view and also from the phone manufacturers (they want to sell phones, not swap the damaged ones). Ofcourse i would like to get open bootloader or phone straight out of the box, but i fully understand why the companies do not want it.
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Bricking... that's one thing but you didn't mention the big picture.
Money
I love it, you love it, and HTC sure as hell does too. Nothing personal it's just business, business as usual... simple as that.
If it weren't for this fabulous forum I would of probably upgraded my phone twice by now if not at least once since owning the HD2, provided I had enough funds... All these "unauthorized" OS updates I'm getting has definitely been a factor for NOT upgrading my phone. That's profit loss for both HTC and the carriers that sell them. Then there's all these "unenlightened" ones who come to this forum and brick their phones because they've failed to properly follow directions. Then turn around and claim fraudulent warranty damage. I don't know how much net loss this actually costs but I'm pretty sure it's enough that it makes a difference. Either way, at the end of the day it's all about maximizing profits. This isn't a charity folks..... HTC has expensive mouths to feed.
do you really need 2 threads going? 1 in gneral and 1 in android?
presonally it doesnt bother me if they lock it or not, they are doing it for business reasons and as stated above money, i was going to reply to this yesterday but after typing out what i was going to put, most people would get pissy and *****y
calc said:
Bricking... that's one thing but you didn't mention the big picture.
Money
I love it, you love it, and HTC sure as hell does too. Nothing personal it's just business, business as usual... simple as that.
If it weren't for this fabulous forum I would of probably upgraded my phone twice by now if not at least once since owning the HD2, provided I had enough funds... All these "unauthorized" OS updates I'm getting has definitely been a factor for NOT upgrading my phone. That's profit loss for both HTC and the carriers that sell them. Then there's all these "unenlightened" ones who come to this forum and brick their phones because they've failed to properly follow directions. Then turn around and claim fraudulent warranty damage. I don't know how much net loss this actually costs but I'm pretty sure it's enough that it makes a difference. Either way, at the end of the day it's all about maximizing profits. This isn't a charity folks..... HTC has expensive mouths to feed.
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yeah i mentioned it (they want sell and not swap the damaged ones), but not as clearly as you did
"There has been overwhelmingly customer feedback that people want access to open bootloaders on HTC phones. I want you to know that we've listened. Today, I'm confirming we will no longer be locking the bootloaders on our devices. Thanks for your passion, support and patience," Peter Chou, CEO of HTC
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https://www.facebook.com/HTC/posts/10150307320018084
was just gonna post the same thing
greg17477 said:
this is just wasting of time.... you need to grow up people.
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Ha. You got anything else to say? Didnt think so
mattfmartin said:
Ha. You got anything else to say? Didnt think so
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Haha awesome. its amazing when the people speak and those in charge actually listen.
signed it!