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I charge my phone overnight, from around 10PM to 8AM, then I leave my phone charging in its dock from about 9AM to 5PM during the work day...
any harm in doing this? I'd like my phone to last quite a while, as we are currently in a serious relationship, and I don't plan on letting her go....
What hurts your phone battery is not charging it but keeping it on high temperatures for a long time. And guess what keeps it on high temperatures: yep, you guessed it, charging for a long time.
Sent from my HTC Desire C using xda app-developers app
While it always depends on the charging circuit, keeping your battery topped up by constant charging (even trickle maintenance) will reduce the voltage level that it can be charged to. This will take quite some time to notice, and several deeper charging cycles will "repair" this to a certain extent. But with any battery, keeping it any constant level will reduce its charging capacity, and continual charging (trickle or otherwise) will "cook" the batteries chemical make up sooner.
To do what you're doing everyday will absolutely have an impact on your battery's health over the long term. But to exactly what extent is based on several factors I don't have specific data on.
Absolutely, our phone battery is designed for mobile usage, not to be tethered to a charger constantly. Constant charging is unnecessary, wasteful and leads to early battery demise.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda premium
And aren't our high end modern phones also designed to trickle charge when it gets to %100, so no harm can come to it?
caliber177 said:
And aren't our high end modern phones also designed to trickle charge when it gets to %100, so no harm can come to it?
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I suppose it depends on how you define "harm". Read my post above again. Any level of current that is continually supplied to a charged battery will accelerate the aging of it.
Even if the charger were to shut off completely, and then resume charging at a certain level (which I believe is the behavior of the LG wireless charger at 95%), continually discharging and recharging from 95% to 100% is probably not ideal.
But all of this is probably not all that great of an affect in the grand scheme of things. You're not gonna kill your battery in a matter of months by leaving on the charger all of the time. Yes you will accelerate the degradation of the battery's health over time, but if your phone is in use enough so the battery is being discharged regularly between charges, I doubt that you will notice it for a long time, if at all.
I can say that if you simply leave it charging 24/7 without any other kind of use you will be able to measure degradation surprisingly soon. As to how noticeable it will be is very hard to say.
I use and suggest Battery Monitor Widget from 3c. It takes the guess work out of what you see when you're charging and what happens to the phone when it reaches 100%.
As the phone gradually reaches 90%, charging is noticeably slowed. From about 92-100% it trickle charges from around 300 to 200 to 100mA until it reaches 100%. Charger stops charging when full and lets the battery level drop slightly before charging it back to 100%. You're constantly topping it off at full and batteries of this chemistry don't like that.
As far as I can recall, these types of batteries actually thrive on being run down and cycled back up. The only catch is, don't run them down until it's completely dead. You've significantly cut the life of your battery if you do it quite often.
To answer your question, it probably doesn't hurt that much. If you do it for months, maybe years. Yeah, you'll see some degradation.
desynch- said:
As far as I can recall, these types of batteries actually thrive on being run down and cycled back up.
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I would correct this and say the battery loves being near the median. Store at 40% battery! 100%-0% is bad... 100%-10% is better, 90/10 is better etc...
80/40 is really good for preserving charge cycles. Basically, charging at 30% back up to 70% is better than letting it go down to 0%
Note: this is a REALLY good battery in this phone. Just USE it until you feel it's dying too soon and buy a new one. Batteries are cheap and will be cheaper in 2-3 years.
But we can't buy battery for this phone.. I always let it run down to 14% that's when the warning message pops up.. Then back up, charges in 2 1/2 hrs then I leave it on an hour more until I leave from work so I could have a full phone.. Note, I work over nights, so its dead at around 2 or 3 am sometimes, then I leave at 6 am..
Sent from my Nexus 4
Please... I would say we can in a few months! Most of us have already voided the warranty
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda premium
Most of us in here don't keep our phones long enough to notice any battery degradation..
Just charge it as often as you can but unplug it when it's full.
To be safe I would let the phone idle off of the work charger and only plug in at home.
dralways said:
To be safe I would let the phone idle off of the work charger and only plug in at home.
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Agreed, I only charge once a day and it's usually sufficient, if your a heavy user and are concerned about the phone dying at night, let the phone decharge normally throughout the day and plug it in an hour or an hour and a half before you leave, however long it takes to charge the device after a workday's worth of usage (Whatever that is for you)
I do this myself if I'm using my phone heavily during the day and know I'll be out all night. Like some said you'll probably never even notice the degradation, but when you know it's not good for the battery in the strictest sense why risk it, the phones aren't designed to be charging 2/3rd of the time, they are designed to be charged and then taken off the charger and used.
We all know that the One (and many other modern cellphones) have a Lithium Ion battery. While these batteries have no traditional 'memory effect' the way NiMH did, it seems that different chemistries for the electrolyte would suggest different strategies for recharging.
For example, after looking at the Wikipedia entry for Lithium batteries, it would seem that we should be mindful about 'topping off' the battery, because charging deteriorates the lifespan, implying that running down the battery might be a more advisable practice than plugging in to fully charge every night.
Wondering if any of you experts out there can comment and discuss, given that we One users no longer have replacable cells.
Good question, I too would be very interested in hearing from some of the posters that are knowledgeable in this area.
Sent from my HTC EVO 3D X515m using xda premium
This is pretty well established knowledge right now. I'll list everything pertinent about lithium ion batteries and charging smartphones:
Edit: Note that I mention Lithium Ion in this post, but the HTC One uses Lithium Polymer. They are for all intents and purposes equal in terms of their usability, except for slightly less charge cycles
Edit 2: Hello Reddit! No idea this would have taken off. I'm "coolmatty" on reddit. This is an overall generalization, and there are plenty of resources that go into more detail. Places like Battery University are great sites to start.
1. Charging is what reduces the life of a lithium ion battery. Batteries are usually rated between 700-1000 charge cycles while keeping 90% of their capacity.
2. Charging 0-100% counts as one cycle. Charging 80-100% 5 times counts as one cycle.
3. Leaving your phone on the charger after it is charged has the potential to reduce battery life, although this is less of a problem with newer devices as they often disconnect the charging circuit until the battery drops below ~95%. Generally only an issue if you leave it on the charger for 24+ hours.
4. Lithium ion batteries do not require any conditioning.
5. Most lithium ion devices arrive with ~40-50% battery life remaining, because this is the optimal charge level to store a lithium battery for long periods (such as sitting on a store shelf for months).
6. Slower charging maintains the battery's overall lifetime capacity better than fast charging. This is likely why the HTC One does not have Qualcomm's Quick Charge enabled. It's debateable whether you'd notice the effects over the typical lifetime of a smartphone, however (2 years).
7. Not exactly related to lithium but just in general: smartphones (and tablets, etc) have charging circuits that only draw a certain amount of amps regardless of the number of amps the charger provides. Using a 3.1 amp (tablet-level) charger is not going to significantly increase the speed at which your phone charges. Most phones only use between 0.8 - 1.2 amps. Anything over that is overkill.
8. Storing a lithium ion battery at 0% is really bad for its lifetime capacity. Running it to 0% generally isn't recommended all the time, but a few instances won't hurt it.
9. Recharging from 0-100 doesn't make your battery run longer. It can, however, reset Android's battery level stats so that it can more accurately state the battery level.
10. Charging from ~95% to 100% takes a long time because it must do a trickle charge. Maxing out the battery like this can reduce overall lifetime capacity, but generally not enough to matter. You'll see this impact more often in larger applications of lithium batteries (like cars).
You have no idea how many people need this post (on some points, myself included). Thanks.
Vincent Law said:
2. Charging 0-100% counts as one cycle. Charging 80-100% 5 times counts as one cycle.
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It does not seem to be that uniform, according to this:
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
From what I understood from the link above in Table 2, you can get the best longevity by charging from 50% (2nd row).
jasahu said:
It does not seem to be that uniform, according to this:
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
From what I understood from the link above in Table 2, you can get the best longevity by charging from 50% (2nd row).
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But is it practical to charge it at 50% every time?
Doesn't the one infact have a Li-Po battery ? Would these points still apply ?
Nyxagamemnon said:
But is it practical to charge it at 50% every time?
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What is a practical approach for me now, after reading this all, is to charge it every night.
This way
- I have better chances for not running out of battery during the day
- either it was at 75% (3rd row) or 50% (2nd row) I still have better longevity than charging from 0% most of the time.
Battery life will not degrade as long as you donot empty its charge for long time and donot use it while on charge... over heat on battery aged the battery...
Sent from my GT-I9082 using xda premium
Just wanted to add: li-ion and li-po batteries now-a-days have protection circuitry to prevent overcharge and over-discharge. Overcharge protection based on what is stated above, known as trickle charge. Over-discharge protection means that your phone will shut off when your battery is around 3v per cell, whereas you should refrain from force starting the phone. The only benefit you get from fully charging/discharging is battery calibration for cell mismatches. It is also good to know that partial charges are better than full charges when it comes to lithium ion (and lithium polymer) batteries.
The HTC one uses li-poly, not li-ion
Can read all about the advantages and disadvantages of each other here:
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/is_lithium_ion_the_ideal_battery
li-poly
Advantages
Very low profile - batteries resembling the profile of a credit card are feasible.
Flexible form factor - manufacturers are not bound by standard cell formats. With high volume, any reasonable size can be produced economically.
Lightweight - gelled electrolytes enable simplified packaging by eliminating the metal shell.
Improved safety - more resistant to overcharge; less chance for electrolyte leakage.
Limitations
Lower energy density and decreased cycle count compared to lithium-ion.
Expensive to manufacture.
No standard sizes. Most cells are produced for high volume consumer markets.
Higher cost-to-energy ratio than lithium-ion
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As far as I am concerned, li-poly is overall better for phones where you can't change the battery.
by the looks of that article it was done quite a while ago (for the tech. world) so the disadvantages might not be as much of a problem these days.....
jasahu said:
It does not seem to be that uniform, according to this:
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
From what I understood from the link above in Table 2, you can get the best longevity by charging from 50% (2nd row).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was using a simplification. It would be better not to let it go to 0, but most charge cycles are rated on this. I do mention the impact of letting the battery go to 0%.
Miketoberfest said:
Doesn't the one infact have a Li-Po battery ? Would these points still apply ?
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Click to collapse
A flub on my part, you are correct. There are minor differences (the only one that matters to us is slightly shorter lifetime capacity) but otherwise it works the same.
Now that i see a battery 'expert', a quick question.
Back in the dack, if you bought anything with batteries, you would have to charge them for 24h, no matter how much charged they were. But if i were to buy a phone today (Lith-Ion), Do i still have to do that?
I think not, but i'm not quite sure. Lots of people (even smartphone sellers) still recommend charging it 24h, wich i think is bull.
Bartcore3 said:
Now that i see a battery 'expert', a quick question.
Back in the dack, if you bought anything with batteries, you would have to charge them for 24h, no matter how much charged they were. But if i were to buy a phone today (Lith-Ion), Do i still have to do that?
I think not, but i'm not quite sure. Lots of people (even smartphone sellers) still recommend charging it 24h, wich i think is bull.
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Click to collapse
I think that was only for the old Ni-MH batteries as they had to be bedded in as such. The newer ones dont need this
Vincent Law said:
This is pretty well established knowledge right now. I'll list everything pertinent about lithium ion batteries and charging smartphones:
1. Charging is what reduces the life of a lithium ion battery. Batteries are usually rated between 700-1000 charge cycles while keeping 90% of their capacity.
2. Charging 0-100% counts as one cycle. Charging 80-100% 5 times counts as one cycle.
3. Leaving your phone on the charger after it is charged has the potential to reduce battery life, although this is less of a problem with newer devices as they often disconnect the charging circuit until the battery drops below ~95%. Generally only an issue if you leave it on the charger for 24+ hours.
4. Lithium ion batteries do not require any conditioning.
5. Most lithium ion devices arrive with ~40-50% battery life remaining, because this is the optimal charge level to store a lithium battery for long periods (such as sitting on a store shelf for months).
6. Slower charging maintains the battery's overall lifetime capacity better than fast charging. This is likely why the HTC One does not have Qualcomm's Quick Charge enabled. It's debateable whether you'd notice the effects over the typical lifetime of a smartphone, however (2 years).
7. Not exactly related to lithium but just in general: smartphones (and tablets, etc) have charging circuits that only draw a certain amount of amps regardless of the number of amps the charger provides. Using a 3.1 amp (tablet-level) charger is not going to significantly increase the speed at which your phone charges. Most phones only use between 0.8 - 1.2 amps. Anything over that is overkill.
8. Storing a lithium ion battery at 0% is really bad for its lifetime capacity. Running it to 0% generally isn't recommended all the time, but a few instances won't hurt it.
9. Recharging from 0-100 doesn't make your battery run longer. It can, however, reset Android's battery level stats so that it can more accurately state the battery level.
10. Charging from ~95% to 100% takes a long time because it must do a trickle charge. Maxing out the battery like this can reduce overall lifetime capacity, but generally not enough to matter. You'll see this impact more often in larger applications of lithium batteries (like cars).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks Vincent. Great post will certainly bear it all in mind when charging my phone.
Sent from my HTC EVO 3D X515m using xda premium
ragingredbull said:
Thanks Vincent. Great post will certainly bear it all in mind when charging my phone.
Sent from my HTC EVO 3D X515m using xda premium
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I'm not sure everyone noticed one of the things he said. I know from my HD2 and Ruby that HTC phones will not continue charging after hitting 100%. The phone will indicate %100, but shortly after you disconnect the charger and start using the phone the indicated power level will drop to what it actually is - and it will be lower depending upon how long it has been sitting at "100%". Their phones have a protection circuit that kicks in. So if you really want 100% in the morning, power the phone down to charge it.
Bartcore3 said:
Now that i see a battery 'expert', a quick question.
Back in the dack, if you bought anything with batteries, you would have to charge them for 24h, no matter how much charged they were. But if i were to buy a phone today (Lith-Ion), Do i still have to do that?
I think not, but i'm not quite sure. Lots of people (even smartphone sellers) still recommend charging it 24h, wich i think is bull.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As I mentioned in my first post, Lithium batteries do not require conditioning. The purpose for this on old Ni-Cad batteries was to avoid the memory effect, which could result in a battery appearing to be dead long before it actually was. For instance, if you always charged it from 60%, after many instances of this, the Ni-Cad battery would suffer a voltage drop at that point, which most electronics can't handle (some can, however, and once past the short period of low voltage, they will recover and continue normally).
Charging for 24 hours is most certainly not relevant, as once the battery reaches 100%, charging has ceased anyway. There's no need to charge it to 100% anyway, other than to give you more time to play with your new toy
---------- Post added at 01:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:41 PM ----------
stevedebi said:
I'm not sure everyone noticed one of the things he said. I know from my HD2 and Ruby that HTC phones will not continue charging after hitting 100%. The phone will indicate %100, but shortly after you disconnect the charger and start using the phone the indicated power level will drop to what it actually is - and it will be lower depending upon how long it has been sitting at "100%". Their phones have a protection circuit that kicks in. So if you really want 100% in the morning, power the phone down to charge it.
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Click to collapse
You'll see this in most devices nowadays. It's especially noticeable on laptops, which typically won't lie to you about the charge. It depends on the models, but I know Macbooks for instance will happily sit at 95% charge as "fully charged". This is by design and other than turning off the device, you shouldn't try to "top it off". Any other method (such as unplugging and plugging it back in) hurts the overall lifetime of the battery.
Vincent Law said:
...
You'll see this in most devices nowadays. It's especially noticeable on laptops, which typically won't lie to you about the charge. It depends on the models, but I know Macbooks for instance will happily sit at 95% charge as "fully charged". This is by design and other than turning off the device, you shouldn't try to "top it off". Any other method (such as unplugging and plugging it back in) hurts the overall lifetime of the battery.
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Most of the modern laptops allow you to turn on or off the battery saving feature. For those who use the laptop while plugged in most of the time, it will stop charging at 80%. For those who will be using it off the plug, the option is there to get it to 100%.
I often see posts from people (in various forums) asking why their laptop will only charge to 80%...
stevedebi said:
Most of the modern laptops allow you to turn on or off the battery saving feature. For those who use the laptop while plugged in most of the time, it will stop charging at 80%. For those who will be using it off the plug, the option is there to get it to 100%.
I often see posts from people (in various forums) asking why their laptop will only charge to 80%...
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I've never heard of this, and I don't recall seeing it on any Windows or Mac laptop I've used recently. Sounds like some proprietary crap one of the manufacturers came up with. Stopping the charge at 80% doesn't make much sense, since you'll still have the issue of constantly recharging the battery (as soon as it drops below 80%).
Edit: I will say that it is marginally better than keeping it at 100%, but that said, there's steps you can take on your own that are much better.
The ideal way to use a laptop that will be plugged in for most of its lifetime is to discharge it to about 45%, and then remove the battery entirely. At that point, the battery can maintain its capacity for months without major issue. Just make sure to recharge it once every 3 months or so, as the battery will discharge (slowly) even while unplugged, but at a far slower rate than it would be inside the laptop.
Vincent Law said:
I've never heard of this, and I don't recall seeing it on any Windows or Mac laptop I've used recently. Sounds like some proprietary crap one of the manufacturers came up with. Stopping the charge at 80% doesn't make much sense, since you'll still have the issue of constantly recharging the battery (as soon as it drops below 80%).
Edit: I will say that it is marginally better than keeping it at 100%, but that said, there's steps you can take on your own that are much better.
The ideal way to use a laptop that will be plugged in for most of its lifetime is to discharge it to about 45%, and then remove the battery entirely. At that point, the battery can maintain its capacity for months without major issue. Just make sure to recharge it once every 3 months or so, as the battery will discharge (slowly) even while unplugged, but at a far slower rate than it would be inside the laptop.
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The latest research from the Auto manufacturers is that Li-Ion technology works longest if the battery level is between 50 and 80%.
My Toshiba U925 ultra portable uses the optional 80% max. If you use the laptop almost exclusively while plugged in, it will help provide battery longevity, or so I understand.
Many laptops won't work unless the battery is in place. It depends on how they built the power circuits.
Cmon, lets give the credit where credit is due.
I no longer have to worry about battery charge thanks to this new fast charge thing. 45 mins after having a low battery I'm at 80%... thank god battery charging has finally progressed to this.
I use my phone for music / radio shows all day long. I can't tell you how happy I am to have this fast charge thing.. on the boat, in the car, at work at home, a 30 min charge and my phone is ready to go for HOURS!
Thank you to samsung and the note 4 for FINALLY putting a phone out there that is awesome!!
J3ff said:
Cmon, lets give the credit where credit is due.
I no longer have to worry about battery charge thanks to this new fast charge thing. 45 mins after having a low battery I'm at 80%... thank god battery charging has finally progressed to this.
I use my phone for music / radio shows all day long. I can't tell you how happy I am to have this fast charge thing.. on the boat, in the car, at work at home, a 30 min charge and my phone is ready to go for HOURS!
Thank you to samsung and the note 4 for FINALLY putting a phone out there that is awesome!!
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I agree but I rather swap my battery. When I get down to lets say 5% I don't have to worry about plugging it in. It takes less than a minute to go from 0% to 100% and it's less strain on the charging port and circuit. Plus if you still want to use the phone you don't have to be tethered to a cable.
+1 I love it. Swapping out the batter. LOL Not so much.
Battery swapping really sucks if you have a case on the phone. I vote for fast charging. Beautiful thing! I just need to get a fast car charger and I can charge my phone fully during my commute to work.
...and it's less strain on the charging port and circuit...
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As an electrical engineer, seeing statements like this makes me cringe. I can absolutely assure you that there is no "strain" on the charging circuit, or battery, or anything else for that matter.
The only thing I could say is, possibly, the reduced battery life span due to the additional charge cycles. But charge cycles for modern Li-ion is already really high. But even if I were to entertain the fact that the battery might need to be replaced sooner, who cares. You are buying another battery NOW, vs the possibility of buying another battery in a year or so.
As far as personal preference goes, if a spare battery is your thing, go for it. But please try not to perpetuate the idea that the fast charging circuit or battery can't handle the charging.
I'm more than happy to go over the physics and electrical theory on how charging works. You might be interested to know that in a lab setting we can get charging rates as fast as 1 minute per 1000mAh with minimal heat build up (the major hurdle in improving charging rates)
Fast charging is nothing new. A similar concept are large capacitors, like a camera flash. They charge in seconds. The major engineering challenge is controlling the discharge rate, in most cases the heat build up is limiting factor.
Don't be surprised if the note 5 charges in 0 to 100 in less than 5 min.
Fast Charging + Killer battery life = One Happy Customer
Serinety said:
As an electrical engineer, seeing statements like this makes me cringe. I can absolutely assure you that there is no "strain" on the charging circuit, or battery, or anything else for that matter.
The only thing I could say is, possibly, the reduced battery life span due to the additional charge cycles. But charge cycles for modern Li-ion is already really high. But even if I were to entertain the fact that the battery might need to be replaced sooner, who cares. You are buying another battery NOW, vs the possibility of buying another battery in a year or so.
As far as personal preference goes, if a spare battery is your thing, go for it. But please try not to perpetuate the idea that the fast charging circuit or battery can't handle the charging.
I'm more than happy to go over the physics and electrical theory on how charging works. You might be interested to know that in a lab setting we can get charging rates as fast as 1 minute per 1000mAh with minimal heat build up (the major hurdle in improving charging rates)
Fast charging is nothing new. A similar concept are large capacitors, like a camera flash. They charge in seconds. The major engineering challenge is controlling the discharge rate, in most cases the heat build up is limiting factor.
Don't be surprised if the note 5 charges in 0 to 100 in less than 5 min.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i love everything about this post, btw. i'd love to know the physics and electrical theory if you ever want to share. it would probably help me to understand which is better for the phone, not that i need it right now, but i'm sure it would be beneficial to have that knowledge. i am one that is a fan of the fast charging, but i've also been looking at Samsung's spare battery charger too. the Korean Note 4 variants actually came WITH the spare battery charger (lucky ducks) but it's going for $45 ish right now on Samsung's website. might not be a bad investment at all, even though my battery life is averaging 12 - 15 hours on a singe charge.
Serinety said:
Fast charging is nothing new. A similar concept are large capacitors, like a camera flash. They charge in seconds. The major engineering challenge is controlling the discharge rate, in most cases the heat build up is limiting factor.
Don't be surprised if the note 5 charges in 0 to 100 in less than 5 min.
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Click to collapse
This is true. I had an Energizer battery charger that could charge my AA or AAA batteries in 15 minutes. They got very hot though. This was in the 90's.
alprazolam said:
This is true. I had an Energizer battery charger that could charge my AA or AAA batteries in 15 minutes. They got very hot though. This was in the 90's.
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I had something like this as well. Mine had a fan on it that would attempt to keep things cool. I have an Ego lawn mower that can charge the HUGE battery pack that goes in it up by 50% in 15 minutes, and it sits on a big charging base with a huge, loud fan. That's a little different than charging a cell phone battery or AA/AAA batteries.
+1 on the fast charge thing. To me, that's revolutionary.
Fast charging is awesome, but I really don't use it. My battery life is so great the it easily lasts me the whole day with moderate usage. I usually end the day with 30+% left. The fast charging is an awesome feature, but i really have no use for it.
Someone was saying having fast charging checked depletes battery quicker. Ain't that some bs?
Has anyone given any numbers as to how slow / the rate of wireless charging is on this phone? I love fast charging but I want wireless charging as well.
I agree with a couple of these posts. I have moderate use on my phone and usually end the day at 40% or higher. However, I love having spare batteries that I can just pop in and be at 100%. Just ordered 3 plus wall charger for $20 shipped. Hard to beat having 3 full charges at hand if you don't have a chance to plug in for a while.
Battery life is great on this phone........period!!!
FuzzRaven said:
Has anyone given any numbers as to how slow / the rate of wireless charging is on this phone? I love fast charging but I want wireless charging as well.
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I believe most wireless chargers are 1 amp output. The stock wall charger is 2 amp so I'm guessing it would take about 2 1/2 to 3 1/2 hours to fully charge on wireless,I'm not expert though.
husker97 said:
Fast charging is awesome, but I really don't use it. My battery life is so great the it easily lasts me the whole day with moderate usage. I usually end the day with 30+% left. The fast charging is an awesome feature, but i really have no use for it.
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You'll find it helpful sooner or later trust me
Sent from my SM-N910V using XDA Free mobile app
masri1987 said:
Someone was saying having fast charging checked depletes battery quicker. Ain't that some bs?
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Click to collapse
Maybe they thought it said "fast discharging" lol
shpotik said:
You'll find it helpful sooner or later trust me
Sent from my SM-N910V using XDA Free mobile app
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I do not doubt the usefulness of it, and I know it will come in handy some days. It's just my normals days I have battery to spare.
I'm wondering if the heat I hear about being generated before the charging rate slows down after 50% would have any negative impact on battery life. Would there be any benefit in using my multi-port charger for overnight charges when I am not in a hurry to charge the battery?
Also, I assume that the battery doesn't have any memory, and that there's no reason to break it in, fully discharge periodically, etc. and that it's okay to charge a little or a lot regardless of the current charge state. Is that correct?
This is a question i would like to know the answer to as well
I did a slow charge last night and the battery seemed to discharge s little slower this morning fwiw, but that's not terribly scientific.
Sent from my XT1575 using XDA Free mobile app
There's already a thread for this. No, it doe not harm battery life.
Darnell_Chat_TN said:
There's already a thread for this. No, it doe not harm battery life.
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Could you please point me towards that thread? I didn't locate it with a few search combinations. Thanks.
Mississip said:
I'm wondering if the heat I hear about being generated before the charging rate slows down after 50% would have any negative impact on battery life. Would there be any benefit in using my multi-port charger for overnight charges when I am not in a hurry to charge the battery?
Also, I assume that the battery doesn't have any memory, and that there's no reason to break it in, fully discharge periodically, etc. and that it's okay to charge a little or a lot regardless of the current charge state. Is that correct?
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Click to collapse
Fast Charging Lithium = Battery damage. It's basic chemistry. The cells take mechanical damage from expanding too quickly. So, for best longevity, charge her with like a .7 to 1 amp charger.
Locklear308 said:
Fast Charging Lithium = Battery damage. It's basic chemistry. The cells take mechanical damage from expanding too quickly. So, for best longevity, charge her with like a .7 to 1 amp charger.
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wrong. the only thing that damages cells is charging beyond the voltage specifications. How fast you dump electrons in has no negative effects, its only when you put too many in that batteries get damaged.
Locklear308 said:
Fast Charging Lithium = Battery damage. It's basic chemistry. The cells take mechanical damage from expanding too quickly. So, for best longevity, charge her with like a .7 to 1 amp charger.
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Thank you. I had thought the same thing. No one had the time to give me any detailed information, so I researched. I can't post links, but the following articles are helpful and will show up first in a search for the title
'Will speed chargers kill your battery?'
'BU-401a: Fast and Ultra-fast Chargers'
A conventional phone charger can only supply the current and voltage that is safe for a battery at all charge levels. In other words, it is must use the least common denominator. Quick Charge makes this process much more active by monitoring max current, max voltage, and temperature so that it can supply more power when it is safe and less power when it is not. Quick Charge will always keep the current, voltage, and temperature within the battery's designed specifications.
In terms of battery memory effect, no, modern lithium based batteries do not have any sort of memory-like effect. This is mostly associated with older and cheaper NiCad type batteries. This is one of those things that people seem to have a really hard time moving past.
People worry far too much about babying their battery.
Assuming you are going to use the phone for ~2 years then a properly designed fast charger should have a negligible effect on battery life. After 2 years of continuous usage all bets are off whether you used a fast charger or not.
If you really want to worry about how to treat your battery then there are two things you should try not to do. Don't let the battery go all the way to 0% and let it sit like that for a year. Don't leave your phone on your dash in direct sunlight everyday. Outside of those two things there's not much you can do to change the lifetime of your battery so just use the damn thing. =P
dalingrin said:
A conventional phone charger can only supply the current and voltage that is safe for a battery at all charge levels. In other words, it is must use the least common denominator. Quick Charge makes this process much more active by monitoring max current, max voltage, and temperature so that it can supply more power when it is safe and less power when it is not. Quick Charge will always keep the current, voltage, and temperature within the battery's designed specifications.
In terms of battery memory effect, no, modern lithium based batteries do not have any sort of memory-like effect. This is mostly associated with older and cheaper NiCad type batteries. This is one of those things that people seem to have a really hard time moving past.
People worry far too much about babying their battery.
Assuming you are going to use the phone for ~2 years then a properly designed fast charger should have a negligible effect on battery life. After 2 years of continuous usage all bets are off whether you used a fast charger or not.
If you really want to worry about how to treat your battery then there are two things you should try not to do. Don't let the battery go all the way to 0% and let it sit like that for a year. Don't leave your phone on your dash in direct sunlight everyday. Outside of those two things there's not much you can do to change the lifetime of your battery so just use the damn thing. =P
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Exactly.
dalingrin said:
A conventional phone charger can only supply the current and voltage that is safe for a battery at all charge levels. In other words, it is must use the least common denominator. Quick Charge makes this process much more active by monitoring max current, max voltage, and temperature so that it can supply more power when it is safe and less power when it is not. Quick Charge will always keep the current, voltage, and temperature within the battery's designed specifications.
In terms of battery memory effect, no, modern lithium based batteries do not have any sort of memory-like effect. This is mostly associated with older and cheaper NiCad type batteries. This is one of those things that people seem to have a really hard time moving past.
People worry far too much about babying their battery.
Assuming you are going to use the phone for ~2 years then a properly designed fast charger should have a negligible effect on battery life. After 2 years of continuous usage all bets are off whether you used a fast charger or not.
If you really want to worry about how to treat your battery then there are two things you should try not to do. Don't let the battery go all the way to 0% and let it sit like that for a year. Don't leave your phone on your dash in direct sunlight everyday. Outside of those two things there's not much you can do to change the lifetime of your battery so just use the damn thing. =P
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I had researched the topic and learned what you have stated, but I really appreciate you taking the time to write this fuller explanation. I wished to take every reasonable precaution to maximize battery life, given the battery is not easily replaced.
There have been references published claiming that charging faster (higher current) shortens overall Li-Ion battery life.
Mechanism may be related to heat.
One thing the Qualcomm Quick Charge 2.0 (used in the Snapdragon 808) does is increase voltage at the charger from standard USB 5V, to 9V and 12V, for higher charge rates (power) at still-moderate current (to keep heat dissipation down).
I measured 1.1 to 2.3 amps at ~9V with QC 2.0 charger on the MXPE, with the higher current measurements at lower State of Charge (SoC). Have not seen 12V yet, but I only tried it down to 45% SoC (2.3 amps at 9V), I imagine it bumps up to 12V when the battery is discharged further, nearer to complete discharge.
This charger is rated for
5V, 4A
9V, 2.22A
12V, 2.5A
20V, 1.0A
So the max power fed to the battery would be 28W (12V*2.5A).
(This is the Power Partners PEAW30-12-USB, supposedly a 30W charger. So much for integrity in advertising.)
So the current is kept to a manageable level to control heat dissipation (therefore max temperatures), from the charger to (somewhere in the phone). But I believe that at the battery itself, more rapid charging (higher power) would still require higher current, because voltages have to be limited in the battery itself, so one would think heat dissipation (> max temperatures) would still be a problem in the battery itself. Does that shorten battery life?
The answer is probably: Who cares. Because: Li-Ion batteries have a 2-3 year life in any case, regardless of their service life or even if they are not used at all. They age and exhibit substantial capacity decline over time. Discharge/charge cycles hasten the capacity decline, but the battery is only good for 2-3 years, give or take, no matter what. And since aftermarket replacement batteries are inferior, unsafe, and stale, there is no reason to try to hang on to your phone for more than 2-3 years in any case. (Especially since the "non-user-replaceable" batteries can be a pain in the a** to R&R. The Moto X Pure 2015 battery is one of those. Some phones actually incur permanent damage to seals if the battery is removed/replaced - the Kyocera Hydro Wave is this way.)
You say "but you could replace the battery with an OEM battery". There are two types of OEM Li-Ion phone batteries on the market that an individual consumer can buy retail, when their phone is 2 years old or more: Used stale batteries (look up "reverse logistics"), and "new" (i.e. not put into service yet) stale batteries. Good luck finding a fresh, new OEM Li-Ion battery for your 2 year old or older phone (out of production for at least a year).
Been down this road before. Wasted lots of time and money replacing phone batteries after 2-3 years. From now on I'm going to stop coddling phone batteries, stop replacing them after 2-3 years, and just figure on a new phone every 2-3 years. It's the only way to get a fresh, new Li-Ion phone battery. (And get the phone right when it is released, like the MXPE this month. That way you are more sure the battery is fresh.)
I think everything in the wireless phone paradigm is increasingly heading that way anyway. Everything, and I mean everything, pushes the market to a 2 year product life cycle. Batteries last 2 years. Increasingly, batteries are not made to be replaceable. Carriers are changing networks so fast you need a new phone every 2 for that alone. New OS/SW overloads hardware older than 2 years. Displays may fade over a couple years. USB connectors wear out. Just relax and go with it. Marvel at the Qualcomm Quick Charge 2.0 (I am). You'll be happier with a new phone every 2 years.
Sorry for the long rant.
Sorry for the kind of off topic, but it's kind of related... is it okay to use other devices with the included fast charger? I just hate having 2 micro usb chargers plugged in, when I could use just one
Sent from my XT1575 using XDA Free mobile app
crash613 said:
Sorry for the kind of off topic, but it's kind of related... is it okay to use other devices with the included fast charger? I just hate having 2 micro usb chargers plugged in, when I could use just one
Sent from my XT1575 using XDA Free mobile app
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Yes, the Moto Turbo Charger can be used with any MicroUSB charging device. It will adjust charging as needed for the individual device. Moto made the Turbo Charger, to be a single charger for all MicroUSB devices.
If the battery is kept well charged, which Turbo Charging helps to accomplish. That's better to me, than more drain and slower chargers that leave the battery more drained overall. The batteries are supposed to last longer when kept fully charged more often.
crash613 said:
Sorry for the kind of off topic, but it's kind of related... is it okay to use other devices with the included fast charger? I just hate having 2 micro usb chargers plugged in, when I could use just one
Sent from my XT1575 using XDA Free mobile app
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"...since Quick Charge 2.0 is compatible and interoperable, a certified adapter can be used with a non-Quick Charge 2.0 device, though the fast charging benefits of Quick Charge 2.0 will not be available. "
https://www.qualcomm.com/products/snapdragon/quick-charge/faq
By all appearances, Motorola's "TurboPower™ Charging" is nothing more than Qualcomm Quick Charge 2.0. (That's what Snapdragon 808 in the XT1575 uses.)
The third-party Qualcomm Quick Charge 2.0 chargers I bought are recognized as "Turbo" and function with the XT1575, just like the Motorola charger that came with the XT1575.
(There are a LOT of Qualcomm-certified QC 2.0 chargers for sale by third-party names. Qualcomm has been BUSY. )
To slow charge a S7, do we have to turn off fast charging from the settings and then charge via the charger that came with the phone(the so called fast charger) or should we use a charger from an old phone say SIII etc.?
Does this hold true for Motorola's phone also which have turbo charging option?
Also how to measure battery cycles? Any credible app for the same?
billubakra said:
To slow charge a S7, do we have to turn off fast charging from the settings and then charge via the charger that came with the phone(the so called fast charger) or should we use a charger from an old phone say SIII etc.?
Does this hold true for Motorola's phone also which have turbo charging option?
Also how to measure battery cycles? Any credible app for the same?
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Moto doesn't have the option in settings, it uses industry standard Qualcomm Quick Charge standard rather than a OS hack like Samsung (no offense)... If it is connected to a QC 2.0 charger, it will negotiate the appropriate charge rate, if it is connected to a "standard" charger it will charge normally.
I don't think you can accurately measure battery/charge cycles... even if you could it would be extremely deceiving, what would be considered a cycle? Charging at 50%, 30%, 10%, and to what point 75%, 80%, 100%? Too much room for interpretation here that could be swayed either way depending on the person/app counting it's point of view.
acejavelin said:
Moto doesn't have the option in settings, it uses industry standard Qualcomm Quick Charge standard rather than a OS hack like Samsung (no offense)... If it is connected to a QC 2.0 charger, it will negotiate the appropriate charge rate, if it is connected to a "standard" charger it will charge normally.
I don't think you can accurately measure battery/charge cycles... even if you could it would be extremely deceiving, what would be considered a cycle? Charging at 50%, 30%, 10%, and to what point 75%, 80%, 100%? Too much room for interpretation here that could be swayed either way depending on the person/app counting it's point of view.
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Thanks for replying dear. So, for S7 I have turned off fast charge, should I now charge via the charger that came with the phone(the so called fast charger) or should we use a charger from an old phone say SIII etc.?
For Moto G, the question is the same as above.
Of the little what I have understood from various threads here is to charge the battery when it is between 20-40% to 80-90% if you want to have a good battery life. I used to do the complete opposite charge, when the battery is at say 6-7% and charge it till it is maxed. I used to do the same for my laptop, any other tip for the battery?
And I have signed your petition Brother. I hope they listen to the users.
billubakra said:
Thanks for replying dear. So, for S7 I have turned off fast charge, should I now charge via the charger that came with the phone(the so called fast charger) or should we use a charger from an old phone say SIII etc.?
For Moto G, the question is the same as above.
Of the little what I have understood from various threads here is to charge the battery when it is between 20-40% to 80-90% if you want to have a good battery life. I used to do the complete opposite charge, when the battery is at say 6-7% and charge it till it is maxed. I used to do the same for my laptop, any other tip for the battery?
And I have signed your petition Brother. I hope they listen to the users.
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Does Fast Charge hurt the battery life, no, at least not directly... heat does. Using an older style charger will avoid Quick Charging but I think that foregoing that benefit for a few more days of battery life is hardly worth it. I frequently have 30-60 minutes to charge, not 3-5 hours, so quick charge is nice, if it takes few days off the longevity of the battery so be it. Those who think it cuts the battery life by 20, 30, even 50% are wrong, that simply isn't the case because of Fast Charge itself.
The Moto G isn't an issue here, it doesn't support Quick Charge until the 4th generation, but why give up the feature?
I don't think the "rules" of charging apply as much as people think they do... I charge mine overnight and whenever it needs it during the day, if it does. There is no need to do anything special.
acejavelin said:
Does Fast Charge hurt the battery life, no, at least not directly... heat does. Using an older style charger will avoid Quick Charging but I think that foregoing that benefit for a few more days of battery life is hardly worth it. I frequently have 30-60 minutes to charge, not 3-5 hours, so quick charge is nice, if it takes few days off the longevity of the battery so be it. Those who think it cuts the battery life by 20, 30, even 50% are wrong, that simply isn't the case because of Fast Charge itself.
The Moto G isn't an issue here, it doesn't support Quick Charge until the 4th generation, but why give up the feature?
I don't think the "rules" of charging apply as much as people think they do... I charge mine overnight and whenever it needs it during the day, if it does. There is no need to do anything special.
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Thanks for the wonderful and detailed reply. I am going to try, not stick, to slow charging to see the difference in heating of the battery. My SIII's charger 's input is 150-300VAC, 50-60 hz 0.15AA, output- 5.0V-1.0A and S7's details are input 100-240V 50-60hz 0.5A, output- 9.0V= 1.67 A or 5.0V=2.0A. Can I use the S3's charger to charge S7 after turning of fast charge or is there a voltage difference or something? G4 is at home, don't know about its details. Also in my country the battery or the replacement parts are way too expensive.
Hello, so I just got a new Moto X style about a month ago, I need your advice from something, should I charge my phone at 30-40%? if yes then will it have long term damage/worn out my phone?
Thank you
The golden rules are
Don't ever go below 10%
The battery is happiest (most chemically stable) around 40%
Try to spend as little time above 90% as practically possible, especially when charging/using the device. This means never leaving the device plugged overnight
Avoid heat i.e., Do not overtax the phone in an environment like a small, hot room; Avoid simultaneous charging/GPS in the car with the phone in direct sunlight
To combine the last two items, especially avoid high temperatures at higher battery levels. This will degrade the battery very quickly
I've also read stuff about the discharge depth. Something to the tune of discharging the battery from 80% to 60% before charging is better than discharging from 80% to 40% before charging. I've never paid that much attention, because nobody wants to charge their phone 3 times a day, but apparently topping up is better than charging from near empty.
I've had my Pure for a little more than 6 months now. I have been consistently plugging in when my battery hits 30%. My battery life is as good as it has always been.
QuantumFluxx said:
The golden rules are
Don't ever go below 10%
The battery is happiest (most chemically stable) around 40%
Try to spend as little time above 90% as practically possible, especially when charging/using the device. This means never leaving the device plugged overnight
Avoid heat i.e., Do not overtax the phone in an environment like a small, hot room; Avoid simultaneous charging/GPS in the car with the phone in direct sunlight
To combine the last two items, especially avoid high temperatures at higher battery levels. This will degrade the battery very quickly
I've also read stuff about the discharge depth. Something to the tune of discharging the battery from 80% to 60% before charging is better than discharging from 80% to 40% before charging. I've never paid that much attention, because nobody wants to charge their phone 3 times a day, but apparently topping up is better than charging from near empty.
I've had my Pure for a little more than 6 months now. I have been consistently plugging in when my battery hits 30%. My battery life is as good as it has always been.
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IMO charging overnight dont do anything to the battery, phone stops charging at 100% and start to use energy from the charger, but im with you with the 10%.
I think all these "rules" are all just bunk and superstition... If you make it through the day, plug it in overnight, and start again in the morning, if not when the battery is low, charge it when it is convenient, don't be scared of "overcharging" as that isn't really possible anymore with electronics in batteries and devices. The device is meant to be used, not babied.
These lion lipm battery do not actually ever charge to their full capacity. This is by design so 100 % is really around 80 in reality and 0 is around 8 to 10%. Again this is by design the chipset monitors the battery temperature and charge load as well as discharge load and compensates for heat and load. All this crap about charging at different rates and in different situations is bunk written by people that don't realize battery design is constantly changing. And since quick charge 1 things have changed a ton.
RK2116 said:
IMO charging overnight dont do anything to the battery, phone stops charging at 100% and start to use energy from the charger, but im with you with the 10%.
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Sooo does this mean I can charge my phone over night using the Turbo charger 25W that comes with the phone?
acejavelin said:
I think all these "rules" are all just bunk and superstition... If you make it through the day, plug it in overnight, and start again in the morning, if not when the battery is low, charge it when it is convenient, don't be scared of "overcharging" as that isn't really possible anymore with electronics in batteries and devices. The device is meant to be used, not babied.
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So does this mean i can charge it over night with the turbo charger?
HerySean said:
So does this mean i can charge it over night with the turbo charger?
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Yes
acejavelin said:
Yes
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+1
---------- Post added at 06:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:54 PM ----------
HerySean said:
Sooo does this mean I can charge my phone over night using the Turbo charger 25W that comes with the phone?
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Yes.
I won't argue with anyone here, but I would advise all of you to research lithium ion battery technology. The OP asked how to prevent long term damage to his battery. My friend and I bought our Pure's at the same time. I charge the way that I indicated, he leaves his phone plugged in all night, every night. We're both on Verizon, and I've noticed that his battery drains much more quickly than mine does.
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
Take care, all.
QuantumFluxx said:
I won't argue with anyone here, but I would advise all of you to research lithium ion battery technology. The OP asked how to prevent long term damage to his battery. My friend and I bought our Pure's at the same time. I charge the way that I indicated, he leaves his phone plugged in all night, every night. We're both on Verizon, and I've noticed that his battery drains much more quickly than mine does.
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
Take care, all.
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Have you verified that he is running exactly the same apps as you with exactly the same service throughout the day. If not then your supposing that charging is the issue is simply a guess. The only way to determine exactly would be a to set them up exactly the same and run them exactly the same in exactly the same conditions for a week or more and log the battery life..
autosurgeon said:
Have you verified that he is running exactly the same apps as you with exactly the same service throughout the day. If not then your supposing that charging is the issue is simply a guess. The only way to determine exactly would be a to set them up exactly the same and run them exactly the same in exactly the same conditions for a week or more and log the battery life..
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I run more than he does. He is older, and does not use social media. I use FB/Messenger, Snapchat, Twitter, and Instagram with push notifications enabled. Our standby battery drains are very different from 100%. His device hits 90 while mine is reading 94. The devices are physically next to one another. I only know this because he's at my house every weekend. He always plugs my phone in when he plugs in his even though I've told him not to a hundred times. There are probably other factors involved, but I always attributed the difference to him constantly leaving his phone plugged in for hours on end.
Have you looked at his screen timeout? Screen brightness. Or checked to see if he has a misbehaving app? Does he have wifi at his house ? Or is his doing all it's updates at your place? See there are tons of variables that have nothing to do with charging that are simply more likely to be causing the issue you are noticing
autosurgeon said:
Have you looked at his screen timeout? Screen brightness. Or checked to see if he has a misbehaving app? Does he have wifi at his house ? Or is his doing all it's updates at your place? See there are tons of variables that have nothing to do with charging that are simply more likely to be causing the issue you are noticing
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I mean, I wouldn't describe what I'm observing as an 'issue'. I understand where you're coming from though. I have gone to war against errant battery drains in the past. Lollipop/Marshmallow's mobile radio drain is something I surely won't miss. He does have Wifi at his house for app updates and such.
Just for the clarity's sake, we're talking about:
2 identical devices, running the same version of Android and the same ROM, which are connected to the same mobile and wifi networks, in the same physical location - so service quality is not a variable, unless there is a hardware issue. Both devices are [simultaneously] charged to 100%, and then they are unplugged and their screens remain off. Upon checking both devices a little while later, mine is at 94% while his is at 90%. My device is encrypted, rooted, has custom kernel settings relating to the governor, read ahead, and entropy, and runs various GCM social/messaging apps, and has an extensive Tasker setup. His device is untouched. Both devices have been fully drained and recharged at least once in the past 60 days.
I have looked at his battery usage, which I log with 3C Toolbox. There is no excessive drain from any apps, the cell radio, the kernel, etc...
Regardless of what is causing it, the observable evidence is curious.
QuantumFluxx said:
I won't argue with anyone here, but I would advise all of you to research lithium ion battery technology. The OP asked how to prevent long term damage to his battery. My friend and I bought our Pure's at the same time. I charge the way that I indicated, he leaves his phone plugged in all night, every night. We're both on Verizon, and I've noticed that his battery drains much more quickly than mine does.
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
Take care, all.
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Not saying you are wrong, but the scenario you give is at best circumstantial with the given info. It does not account for other factors such as apps installed, network connectivity, how the phone is being used, etc.
Screen brightness can drastically change how long until you have to recharge. Mine is usually only 1/4 of the way up.