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Just to be sure im not making this thread cause im a ios funboy..its the other way arround..i respect both OS's as i think many of us here but i always wanted to ask something that is bothering me for a long time..
As i enter my 2nd year as a android user and using iOS since iphone 3G i was in love with the iOS but always envy the interface and openess that android had to offer...so when iOS became extremly boring to me i switch to android and im in love with it..so many options so many features so much to learn...
But the main question...even as android is a great OS why it not quite good as iOS in terms of stability,battery life,smoothness.
I see somewhere that android has problems with the memory and how its used...i can't remember the exact techical term that i saw on this post but if anyone has some techinal knowlage over this question i will be happy to hear his thought!!
Thanks and sorry if this is extremly off topic!!
You mean memory leak issue? And yeah it is correct that the android os can't use the full potential of the hardware it's been provided with
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abhinav quietly brilliant said:
You mean memory leak issue? And yeah it is correct that the android os can't use the full potential of the hardware it's been provided with
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Click to collapse
Yeah but why??not even on nexus devices that are meant to use android??
pikachukaki said:
Yeah but why??not even on nexus devices that are meant to use android??
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Click to collapse
I don't know i am only a reader like you read it in a blog by androidauthority if i remember correct
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abhinav quietly brilliant said:
You mean memory leak issue? And yeah it is correct that the android os can't use the full potential of the hardware it's been provided with
Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
what are you talking about? what memory leak bug? i have no memory leak on my n4(i constsnlty have between 1400-1600mb free ram, maybe youre using the wrong rom/kernel or you dont take control of your apps). and also, android can use the potential of the hardware, but the app developers have to write their apps that way. thats not an android issue, its the issue of some bad app developers.
---------- Post added at 04:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:19 PM ----------
abhinav quietly brilliant said:
I don't know i am only a reader like you read it in a blog by androidauthority if i remember correct
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Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ha!
so if its written in a blog, then it MUST be the truth. because everything found online is true(the internet doesnt lie)
Dude i am just talking in general not technically.. I am not a engineer or neither a coder and you are getting too hyper, go get a life buddy you seriously need it
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abhinav quietly brilliant said:
Dude i am just talking in general not technically.. I am not a engineer or nor a coder and you are getting too hyper, go get a life buddy you seriously need it
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Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol, youre funny
if you do not know, then why are you posting like you know? besides, your post right here is the hyper post. i have a nice normal life, thanks for your concern. but i do suggest that you stop living in the fantasy.
simms22 said:
lol, youre funny
if you do not know, then why are you posting like you know? besides, your post right here is the hyper post. i have a nice normal life, thanks for your concern. but i do suggest that you stop living in the fantasy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just because the op mentioned about something related to memory so i thought he is talking about memory leak
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Calm simms we are asking about in technical terms whats wrong with the android versus the iOS...im sure you used or had at least once in your life used iOS so im pretty sure that you also notice the big difference in experience!!
I could very well be wrong, but if I understand iOS and Android correctly, iOS apps can access "more" of the hardware, or at least more efficiently. Android apps have to go through Dalvik, and aren't... native?
A similar comparison would be C++ Windows applications on Windows, vs Java apps (being ran through JVM).
pikachukaki said:
Calm simms we are asking about in technical terms whats wrong with the android versus the iOS...im sure you used or had at least once in your life used iOS so im pretty sure that you also notice the big difference in experience!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no, i dont use ios. i try to avoid it(but have played with it ). anyways, i was just stating that what he wrote isnt true.
default(stock) android vs ios, there probably is some kind of difference. there would even be a difference between a nexus/aosp android and other oem builds. many companies you proprietary dalvik tweaks to make things faster, but they are proprietary. aosp and the nexus use the basic open source dalvik/tweaks, so it might not be as fast when it comes to the ui(and other things). but then again, thats default/stock android. when you move to custom builds, and after optimizations, the difference between ios and android isnt there anymore. ios also uses custom proprietary optimizations btw.
espionage724 said:
I could very well be wrong, but if I understand iOS and Android correctly, iOS apps can access "more" of the hardware, or at least more efficiently. Android apps have to go through Dalvik, and aren't... native?
A similar comparison would be C++ Windows applications on Windows, vs Java apps (being ran through JVM).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have heart that too some mounths ago..and why google used this as i get it with my least knowlage over software is like android is working on a virtual machine!!why they didn't create android just like iOS structure?
simms22 said:
no, i dont use ios. i try to avoid it(but have played with it ). anyways, i was just stating that what he wrote isnt true.
default(stock) android vs ios, there probably is some kind of difference. there would even be a difference between a nexus/aosp android and other oem builds. many companies you proprietary dalvik tweaks to make things faster, but they are proprietary. aosp and the nexus use the basic open source dalvik/tweaks, so it might not be as fast when it comes to the ui(and other things). but then again, thats default/stock android. when you move to custom builds, and after optimizations, the difference between ios and android isnt there anymore. ios also uses custom proprietary optimizations btw.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can understand my first question by a simple example...just see the specs of 3gs that can use ios6 just like iphone5..in the other way see the specs on nexus 4 or S4 and im pretty sure that there lags even 1-2secs!!
pikachukaki said:
I have heart that too some mounths ago..and why google used this as i get it with my least knowlage over software is like android is working on a virtual machine!!why they didn't create android just like iOS structure?
You can understand my first question by a simple example...just see the specs of 3gs that can use ios6 just like iphone5..in the other way see the specs on nexus 4 or S4 and im pretty sure that there lags even 1-2secs!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
maybe so, but i have seen ios lag as well. and have heard people complain about ios lagging.
simms22 said:
maybe so, but i have seen ios lag as well. and have heard people complain about ios lagging.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
in my experience to make iphone lag..you have to do some serious sh1t with cydia....
pikachukaki said:
I have heart that too some mounths ago..and why google used this as i get it with my least knowlage over software is like android is working on a virtual machine!!why they didn't create android just like iOS structure?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They did it likely for overall compatibility support. When Java was first announced, it made the promise of writing code once, and being able to run it on anything. Android is "essentially" the same thing, to maybe a lesser extent. iOS on the other hand is designed to run on the few devices Apple has currently, nothing else.
espionage724 said:
They did it likely for overall compatibility support. When Java was first announced, it made the promise of writing code once, and being able to run it on anything. Android is "essentially" the same thing, to maybe a lesser extent. iOS on the other hand is designed to run on the few devices Apple has currently, nothing else.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So we can't use 100% the possibilities of android cause of open source and compatibility!
So...
AFAIK iOS is based on Objective C whereas Android uses Java. Java is not exactly known for performance - in contrast to (obj.) C. So you can optimize C-Programs way more than Java since Java does a lot "under the hood" that you can hardly control. Android's Java VM is optimized a lot for performance but... it's still Java :>
Secondly iOS doesn't have true multitasking as Android does. When you press the home button on an iPhone, the current app is nearly instantly "frozen" in the RAM. In Android apps put in the background can still do calculations and stuff (you usually recognize that when an app goes rampage and drains your battery, lol).
Third iOS doesn't quite have a file system structure but a database structure internally. Databases are way faster than file systems. The disadvantage here is that you can't save files to your internal SD card since there is no file system (like NTFS under Windows or EXT under Linux).
Google needs to work on, say klp 5.0 being useful ,smoother, more patched Instead of all this buggy trash.
But it's always about something new...
I have thought a few times about getting an iPhone!
Almost everything is better. Let's be honest about that!
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda premium
myturbo1 said:
Almost everything is better. Let's be honest about that!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can't agree there. I like the freedom of being able to look at AOSP source code, kernel sources, and even try out different operating systems, at all, on my Nexus device (I can't say OEM devices have the same freedom though).
I consider iOS a pretty locked down platform. If I'm paying about $500 for a phone, I better be able to do "whatever" I want with it, and that is simply not the case with an iPhone. A $300 Nexus 4 on the other hand can do far more
Guess this is now an iOS vs Android thread
myturbo1 said:
Google needs to work on, say klp 5.0 being useful ,smoother, more patched Instead of all this buggy trash.
But it's always about something new...
I have thought a few times about getting an iPhone!
Almost everything is better. Let's be honest about that!
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just finish reading the above post..and yeah android is beautiful android is easy and fun to use but my thought is that android is a "kiddish" OS compare to iOS but i have to say that even with this bad features android is still better in term of using in time compare to iOS...iOS is pretty boring OS!!
espionage724 said:
I can't agree there. I like the freedom of being able to look at AOSP source code, kernel sources, and even try out different operating systems, at all, on my Nexus device (I can't say OEM devices have the same freedom though).
I consider iOS a pretty locked down platform. If I'm paying about $500 for a phone, I better be able to do "whatever" I want with it, and that is simply not the case with an iPhone. A $300 Nexus 4 on the other hand can do far more
Guess this is now an iOS vs Android thread
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No...no just keep the thread in pure technical terms...i also like the freedom of android..but jailbroken iOS is pretty open,not in a way that android is but still pretty open....but i though that google could use the way iOS is build and keep the freedom is offering...imo the only way to banish iOS from the map is to use a different build structure and at least abandon java where they can!!
So I read today that apparently it has been known for quite a while that Sailfish OS' "Alien Dalvik" feature will be unavailable on all non-Jolla phones which makes it impossible for those of us who want to install Sailfish on their own devices to use Android applications and need to be locked to the Sailfish native applications.
This is due to Alien Dalvik being proprietary and licensed software from the Myriad Group, thus cannot be bundled with ports of Sailfish OS (that includes the Nexus 4, i9305, Nexus 7 ports). As far as I can see it's sold as well, so installing it on the side like Gapps seems to be out of the question.
Has Jolla mentioned anything about this? All I can find are community members saying Alien Dalvik will be unavailable on ports due to the licensing of the product. Without it, Sailfish OS might suddenly becomes a much less interesting as a whole to many, as the ability to install and run Android applications were one of the key features of a otherwise very interesting OS. Any thoughts or more light to shed on this? Will Sailfish OS users that aren't using Jolla phones be stuck with native applications permanently? Or is this something Jolla will change as the product matures?
It's obviously a "pay to play" situation. To rectify it, Jolla would have to charge users a fee to install Sailfish on 3rd party handsets or violate their TOS with Myriad. I don't see that happening. Maybe if enough users come on board, Myriad will find it attractive to offer a license/apk directly to Sailfish users?
Consistant said:
Will Sailfish OS users that aren't using Jolla phones be stuck with native applications permanently? Or is this something Jolla will change as the product matures?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Stuck? Really? I think it's a great opportunity for Android developers to start making applications for Sailfish instead of free riding on Android apps. It's open source, open to modifications, fast, smooth & capable. A true mobile Linux OS. There aren't much excuses not to develop for Sailfish.
Arty. said:
There aren't much excuses not to develop for Sailfish.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, there is. The lack of a larger user base.
I'd love for developers to make apps for Sailfish, but the tiny user base will scare AAA developers away from the platform as they would rather develop for a bigger niche OS like Ubuntu Touch or Firefox OS, Sailfish is rather obscure compared to those. Plus the fact that the native apps are required to be free at this point in time with no form of paid transactions being possible. Most of these AAA developers won't have the same view on open source, especially considering how few applications are open on other platforms.
The alien dalvik was one of the main things that could make Sailfish triumph over other niche mobile operating systems. It was of the key selling points to get people to convert to Sailfish from Android once the porting really starts happening. Otherwise they'll simply ask how big the app store is and once they hear answer is a number with two digits where most of them which are most likely rather lacking in features compared to applications on other platforms will scare people off big time.
The Android VM was one of the huge advantages Sailfish had to attract the niche user base and thus developers to make native apps and now I can see most potential converters sticking with whatever they had making Sailfish DOA together with Firefox OS and Ubuntu Touch. I'd really hate to see that happen.
Consistant said:
Yes, there is. The lack of a larger user base.
I'd love for developers to make apps for Sailfish, but the tiny user base will scare AAA developers away from the platform as they would rather develop for a bigger niche OS like Ubuntu Touch or Firefox OS, Sailfish is rather obscure compared to those. Plus the fact that the native apps are required to be free at this point in time with no form of paid transactions being possible. Most of these AAA developers won't have the same view on open source, especially considering how few applications are open on other platforms.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And how is Ubuntu touch bigger than Sailfish? Jolla launched and started selling their Sailfish phone way before Canonical. They have a more finished OS than any of these guys. They have all the needed tools to develop. Heck they even made an emulator to test apps. I don't see this being more obscure than others. Unlike Ubuntu's marketting schemes, Sailfish is here & it's happening now.
I agree on the open source part though. I tried to refer to the developers here that mod Android by saying open source.
Consistant said:
The alien dalvik was one of the main things that could make Sailfish triumph over other niche mobile operating systems. It was of the key selling points to get people to convert to Sailfish from Android once the porting really starts happening. Otherwise they'll simply ask how big the app store is and once they hear answer is a number with two digits where most of them which are most likely rather lacking in features compared to applications on other platforms will scare people off big time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Will any others have dalvik on their images? Don't think so.
Consistant said:
The Android VM was one of the huge advantages Sailfish had to attract the niche user base and thus developers to make native apps and now I can see most potential converters sticking with whatever they had making Sailfish DOA together with Firefox OS and Ubuntu Touch. I'd really hate to see that happen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Me too so instead of saying there aren't any reasons to develop for these OS's we should show that there are.
And time is needed for the large user base. People are always skeptical about new and rather "different" things. Hopefully these players will get more tracktion by time.
Is this final? Without Android Apps no Sailfish for me and many others I guess...
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IceTe said:
Is this final? Without Android Apps no Sailfish for me and many others I guess...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This has pretty much been set in stone. Jolla are paying Myriad for the licensing per Jolla phone, they can't distribute it for free as it would break their deal and be illegal. You won't be seeing any Alien Dalvik on non-Jolla phones unless a "fix" to make it happen comes around which certainly wouldn't be legal.
The only way I can see Jolla fixing this issue is by having licenses for the Alien Dalvik being sold in the Jolla Store or something similar and that it can be activated through the store. That doesn't seem to be happening soon, unfortunately. Especially considering nothing can be sold in the Jolla Store at this moment in time.
The lack of Alien Dalvik on 3rd party devices is actually a feature to many of us. Having Sailfish on this zooty LG Optimus G i have collecting dust, with no Google nonsense, would finally get me to retire my trusty Nokia N9.
croozah said:
The lack of Alien Dalvik on 3rd party devices is actually a feature to many of us. Having Sailfish on this zooty LG Optimus G i have collecting dust, with no Google nonsense, would finally get me to retire my trusty Nokia N9.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The lack of such a huge key feature should never be a feature in and of itself, rather having the freedom of choice would be.
Having the option to install the VM or not, just like Google Apps, would solve both the problems. Locking many of the potential converters down to using the current sloppy apps in the Jolla Store would not be an advantage for both sides as less people would convert, thus less developers will make quality native applications which will in turn affect both parties.
Even Carol Chen, one of the core Sailfish OS team members, mentioned in a recent Jolla blog post that over half of her apps on her Jolla smartphone were Android apps which means the native apps certainly aren't cutting it right now for many.
Just to clarify...
Alien dalvik allows sailfish OS users to also install android apps? But without it (licensed software only on jolla phones) it is not possible to install these apps on 3rd party phones. And only sailfish or native apps are available?
If this is the case, at least for me, I would be using sailfish as a secondary to my android. I wouldnt be jumping right in, which means that surely other people would be in the same boat. This is also assuming that a port will be fully functional without alien dalvik on a 3rd party phone?
Kesselaar said:
This is also assuming that a port will be fully functional without alien dalvik on a 3rd party phone?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It'll be fully functional (although limited to just a handful of Android devices to ensure a relatively reliable/stable experience), there just won't be a compat. layer for Android apps/content. Such a compat. layer could ofc eventually be offered via the store, but that remains to be seen, people need to be pressing Jolla & Myriad about all of that.
It all depends what you use on Android, if its just the standard stuff plus a few big ones such as whatsapp (check out the port) you'll be fine. To me Alien Dalvik is mostly for those niche apps, that turn up and have everyone going crazy for a few days. Like flappy bird, etc etc
Consistant said:
The lack of such a huge key feature should never be a feature in and of itself, rather having the freedom of choice would be.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your premise is fundamentally flawed. Alien Dalvik is a licensed, patent-encumbered, proprietary software, therefore having it is not a choice unless you somehow buy it; or steal it. The community cannot distribute it; there is no choice.
As I said, and it may be obtuse to some, but this is a feature. A true Linux-based OS that is mostly/completely F/OSS running on modern high-spec hardware is a huge draw. That there is no Android/Google stuff is an added bonus.
Too bad. I really liked the OS before I read this thread...
Oh well, staying on android untill someone figures out how to build an OS that is written in some kind of C for performance and has a VM to emulate existing apps untill they are developed for the OS natively...
ilans93 said:
Too bad. I really liked the OS before I read this thread...
Oh well, staying on android untill someone figures out how to build an OS that is written in some kind of C for performance and has a VM to emulate existing apps untill they are developed for the OS natively...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
buy a jolla phone?!
only the ports on android phones missing alien dalvik. The jolla phone is able to do that. Also it's a linux based mobile os. Many parts, like in android, are written in c. With QT5 they use a technology like kde desktop.
carepack said:
buy a jolla phone?!
only the ports on android phones missing alien dalvik. The jolla phone is able to do that. Also it's a linux based mobile os. Many parts, like in android, are written in c. With QT5 they use a technology like kde desktop.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know, and that's exactly what I like about it.
As for the android phones, I really don't feel the need to upgrade from my galaxy nexus.
I just don't want to see SailfishOS end up like maemo and meego. They were great, but only among us geeks so they didn't become mainstream enough and development stopped (in a way).
If Alien Dalvik could be exported to android hardware then the OS would have a sure future, this way it is uncertain...
ilans93 said:
...If Alien Dalvik could be exported to android hardware then the OS would have a sure future, this way it is uncertain...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If there are enough adopters of Sailfish on Nexus 4 and Galaxy S3, Myriad may offer a license of their Alien Dalvik to those users... For a few dollars you might be able to "have it all."
RumoredNow said:
If there are enough adopters of Sailfish on Nexus 4 and Galaxy S3, Myriad may offer a license of their Alien Dalvik to those users... For a few dollars you might be able to "have it all."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What if you can capture the Dalvik RPM from a Jolla phone when downloading from store?
n9 can capture deb from Nokia Store
RumoredNow said:
If there are enough adopters of Sailfish on Nexus 4 and Galaxy S3, Myriad may offer a license of their Alien Dalvik to those users... For a few dollars you might be able to "have it all."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That would be a dream come true!
flotron said:
What if you can capture the Dalvik RPM from a Jolla phone when downloading from store?
n9 can capture deb from Nokia Store
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You could, but that's not exactly legal...
I think the answer may be more simple than you all have considered so far. The phone does not come with the Alien Dalvik included it has to be downloaded, no? Maybe Jolla pays based on downloads of the Alien Dalvik from the store and that's why (or one of the reasons why) the store is not enabled yet on this early Alpha release.
edit: OK I just asked if there will be a way for us to purchase a license in the future on IRC and stskeeps said they are not leaving it out as a possibility but basics are first.
So there is hope. I guess they will decide after they see how everything goes. I guess it's one of those company strategy things. Will letting us have Alien Dalvik lead to less apps being developed for Sailfish or more? I think more simply because it will excite developers to get in on the cover actions.
Sailfish OS will soon be spreading to many devices when they release the development kit but that still leaves us without the ability to run Android apps on our phones.
If we were allowed to buy a license for Myriad Alien Dalvik how much would you be willing to pay?
aironeous said:
Sailfish OS will soon be spreading to many devices when they release the development kit but that still leaves us without the ability to run Android apps on our phones.
If we were allowed to buy a license for Myriad Alien Dalvik how much would you be willing to pay?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think that Sailfish OS should not support android application and Dalvik at all.
1. Android is developed constantly and very quickly. Very soon new apps will not be able to work on Dalvik.
2. Android layer will always be more eating CPU power then Qt apps.
We should better pay for Qt development, because Qt is much better and powerful then "google java".
nimnull said:
I think that Sailfish OS should not support android application and Dalvik at all.
1. Android is developed constantly and very quickly. Very soon new apps will not be able to work on Dalvik.
2. Android layer will always be more eating CPU power then Qt apps.
We should better pay for Qt development, because Qt is much better and powerful then "google java".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Android will support Dalvik Apps a long time from now because many phone are still running with version that don't support ART and so the apps will support Dalvik.
taaeem said:
Android will support Dalvik Apps a long time from now because many phone are still running with version that don't support ART and so the apps will support Dalvik.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dalvik support by Google is not the reason why Sailfish OS should support Dalvik.
Most of the money for "Android compatibility layer" will be payed for google license. Why we should give our money to Google, then it is better to spend them motivating native application development.
Sailfish should develop native applications, because Qt5 is open source now and community will be much bigger.
Best regards.
Apps are always a key issue. The forums are filled with people posting, "I'm considering leaving OS 'A" in favor of OS 'B' but I need to know if I can get apps X, Y and Z or a suitable replacement."
It's not necessarily the number of apps in an ecosystem so much as specific apps and what they accomplish. And the list is mutable. Every user has a make-or-break app need. For some it is banking, others require certain social media apps, office editing, navigation, entertainment, games... If you can't fill that perceived need, you can't lure anyone to your OS. It was smart of Jolla to team with Myriad and offer Alien Dalvik with their Jolla phone. It breaks down resistance to change for the widest possible spectrum of users. Don't forget - most users aren't capable of writing their own apps - even if they can flash a ROM. At this stage of the game, any OS needs a robust ecosystem to prosper.
Myriad seems a savvy company to me. I'm quite sure they will have Alien ART to go alongside Alien Dalvik. They need to in order for their business model to continue. Jolla will want to upgrade to Alien ART. And they should if they want to prosper.
I agree that development of QT based apps is highly desirable. Throw in HTML 5, Enyo 2 and Mochi as well. Open the standards. Great all around for developers and users when apps can easily be ported from one OS to another and run seamlessly within each OS and identically through each version. But to believe that it currently will support most users, or will do so soon, is a dream. And to insist that it should right this moment is elitist and alienates huge swaths of the potential user base.
Should Myriad (not Jolla - they don't own it) provide a license and installer for Alien Dalvik for Sailfish images on Android handsets? They should if they want to expand their market and recognition. But what are the logistics? Would it not need to be tuned for each specific device's hardware configuration? I believe it does... That may be why it isn't in the N4 images yet. Not ready for the hardware, and the image isn't ready either. Sailfish need to at least reach a Beta level and have the ability for OTA updates. What point is there to Alien Dalvik at this point when you need to flash the OS complete at each new release? It's just masturbation right now to have Sailfish on your N4. I know; I've slathered my N4 in Sailfish and stroked it.
Let Sailfish mature for the N4 where it can be a daily and receive OTA and then, yes, at that point please give us Alien Dalvik. And Alien ART afterwards.
How much would I pay. Not $30. Not $20... I think $15 is probably my top price. I'd like to see $10 or even $5... I know $1 is a crack induced daydream.
RumoredNow said:
Apps are always a key issue. The forums are filled with people posting, "I'm considering leaving OS 'A" in favor of OS 'B' but I need to know if I can get apps X, Y and Z or a suitable replacement."
It's not necessarily the number of apps in an ecosystem so much as specific apps and what they accomplish. And the list is mutable. Every user has a make-or-break app need. For some it is banking, others require certain social media apps, office editing, navigation, entertainment, games... If you can't fill that perceived need, you can't lure anyone to your OS. It was smart of Jolla to team with Myriad and offer Alien Dalvik with their Jolla phone. It breaks down resistance to change for the widest possible spectrum of users. Don't forget - most users aren't capable of writing their own apps - even if they can flash a ROM. At this stage of the game, any OS needs a robust ecosystem to prosper.
Myriad seems a savvy company to me. I'm quite sure they will have Alien ART to go alongside Alien Dalvik. They need to in order for their business model to continue. Jolla will want to upgrade to Alien ART. And they should if they want to prosper.
I agree that development of QT based apps is highly desirable. Throw in HTML 5, Enyo 2 and Mochi as well. Open the standards. Great all around for developers and users when apps can easily be ported from one OS to another and run seamlessly within each OS and identically through each version. But to believe that it currently will support most users, or will do so soon, is a dream. And to insist that it should right this moment is elitist and alienates huge swaths of the potential user base.
Should Myriad (not Jolla - they don't own it) provide a license and installer for Alien Dalvik for Sailfish images on Android handsets? They should if they want to expand their market and recognition. But what are the logistics? Would it not need to be tuned for each specific device's hardware configuration? I believe it does... That may be why it isn't in the N4 images yet. Not ready for the hardware, and the image isn't ready either. Sailfish need to at least reach a Beta level and have the ability for OTA updates. What point is there to Alien Dalvik at this point when you need to flash the OS complete at each new release? It's just masturbation right now to have Sailfish on your N4. I know; I've slathered my N4 in Sailfish and stroked it.
Let Sailfish mature for the N4 where it can be a daily and receive OTA and then, yes, at that point please give us Alien Dalvik. And Alien ART afterwards.
How much would I pay. Not $30. Not $20... I think $15 is probably my top price. I'd like to see $10 or even $5... I know $1 is a crack induced daydream.
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Agreed, it's the applications that make an ecosystem, NOT how elegant that ecosystem is. Paraphrasing badly but: if you have no users, who's there to see the tree fall? To simply say "well, everyone should just code QT!" is pretty short-sighted, even though I agree. You need to coax people over and then have them notice how lovely this also-supported-by-the-now-popular-OS framework is. Just because you build it, doesn't mean they will come.
The reason there is no installer for Jolla N4 adaptation yet though is just plain licensing. They don't seem to be too fussed about driving adoption of their VM (maybe they're happy already with their customer base?) so why should they give away their proprietary software for free? As for Jolla, why should they pay for it for people who haven't forked out for their handset? I think these are reasonable standpoints from both Myriad and Jolla and why, as long as I can get full functionality out of my N4 running Sailfish, I'll happily fork out for a VM to run those must-have 'droid apps. That would be reasonable. If I can get a free, Free one then even better!
As per the title, has development ceased on that style of multi-window? Is the 'Floating Window' similar? With the Nexus 6 rumored to have a 5.9" screen I was hoping that a custom ROM would have something similar to the LG G3 Dual Windows which is great.
parker09 said:
As per the title, has development ceased on that style of multi-window? Is the 'Floating Window' similar? With the Nexus 6 rumored to have a 5.9" screen I was hoping that a custom ROM would have something similar to the LG G3 Dual Windows which is great.
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It's been on hold for quite some time. It was about 90% working, but had some final issues that needed work. After further review, xplodwild actually wants to completely rewrite the feature again after reading up on some interesting infrastructure in Android we didn't know about before. (I don't have the link on this machine).
At this point it might not get finalized until L - since L is going to change a LOT of different things.
Entropy512 said:
It's been on hold for quite some time. It was about 90% working, but had some final issues that needed work. After further review, xplodwild actually wants to completely rewrite the feature again after reading up on some interesting infrastructure in Android we didn't know about before. (I don't have the link on this machine).
At this point it might not get finalized until L - since L is going to change a LOT of different things.
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Thanks for the fast response, glad it didn't get abandoned.
parker09 said:
Thanks for the fast response, glad it didn't get abandoned.
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Yeah it's something I've wanted to finish up but didn't have time. The last issues with the patch proved significantly more difficult/time-consuming to solve than expected. Namely:
1) Layout in some apps is totally broken. G+ is the most obvious example of this. As a result we're probably going to have to implement a whitelist similar to Samsung's multiwindow. (Apps won't work unless whitelisted by the frameworks or the app declares itself as compatible in the manifest. We'll likely use the same manifest declarations Samsung does, e.g. assume any app compatible with Samsung's multiwindow should be compatible with ours.
2) Re-layout of apps after a rotation was really flaky. This is the #1 reason plodey wants to do a rewrite. He's been buried in a special project for a while, he was supposed to be wrapping up in September but that schedule seems to have slipped.
A place for all of us Nexus 6 users to talk about Android M and the Developer Preview any bugs or anything we find. Download links are at the bottom of this post
Android M features new features like:
Android Pay
Snooze
App permissions
USB-Type C support
Native fingerprint scanning
More to come later!
Not working:
waze
amazon music
uber
mlb at bat
evernote
flesky
directv
Cinemark
Download M System Image: http://storage.googleapis.com/androiddevelopers/shareables/preview/shamu-MPZ44Q-preview-c1d6506a.tgz
Download Page for other devices: http://developer.android.com/preview/download.html
@vomer made a thread for images and flashables! http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=3120851
M Screenshots
How to root Android M! http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=3123285
Version 2 is out! Find the system image here: http://developer.android.com/preview/download.html
Direct Version 2 link: http://storage.googleapis.com/androiddevelopers/shareables/preview/shamu-MPZ79M-preview-e1024040.tgz
Snooze has me intruiged , seems like its Project Volta but forced at a system level instead of waiting for developers to implement into apps
Is it possible to do fingerprint scanning via the screen, with software? Or does it have o be a separate piece of hardware?
I assume hardware
Do we have to wait for I/O to end before Google throws the switch to the M preview? I for see several servers crashing for about 2 days or at least 6-10 hours before a stead fast DL.
Sent from my Nexus 6 using XDA Free mobile app
longshot21771 said:
Is it possible to do fingerprint scanning via the screen, with software? Or does it have o be a separate piece of hardware?
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Hardware such as Qualcomm's Sense ID
Sent from my GS6
Is Android M really going to look the same as L? There has to be at least a little bit of UI changes.
I've never flashed a developer preview before. Is it possible to flash with a nexus toolkit or does it need to be done in adb?
stevew84 said:
Is Android M really going to look the same as L? There has to be at least a little bit of UI changes.
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Yeah I thought it looked like the UI wasn't going to be a major change.
italia0101 said:
Snooze has me intruiged , seems like its Project Volta but forced at a system level instead of waiting for developers to implement into apps
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"Doze"? But yes I to am asking the same question, my N6 never was plagued with all the bugs many are having except the battery, but for sure can't wait to load M up and see!
Sent from my Nexus 6 using XDA Free mobile app
italia0101 said:
Snooze has me intruiged , seems like its Project Volta but forced at a system level instead of waiting for developers to implement into apps
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I already get 95% deep sleep with screen off...I fail to see the point of Doze. I suppose if you're always getting FB and G+ pings all day it might help sleep more.
adam29617 said:
Do we have to wait for I/O to end before Google throws the switch to the M preview? I for see several servers crashing for about 2 days or at least 6-10 hours before a stead fast DL.
Sent from my Nexus 6 using XDA Free mobile app
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Rumor has it the preview is coming out today. Least that is what people on reddit are reporting
stevew84 said:
Is Android M really going to look the same as L? There has to be at least a little bit of UI changes.
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It is really pretty underwhelming for a version uptick. It seriously looks like you could use M and never notice you didn't have Lollipop. Seems like Google is going all Mozilla in terms of versioning.
They already mentioned that there were minor tweaks to the core experience, but they probably don't feel they were worth highlighting.
L was a huge visual revolution. Why did people expect M was going to have a big graphical overhaul or update?
inkdrink said:
They already mentioned that there were minor tweaks to the core experience, but they probably don't feel they were worth highlighting.
L was a huge visual revolution. Why do people expect M is going to have a graphical overhaul or update?
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Probably because most people expect a major name-branded update to have something they'd visually notice....not a collection of under-the-hood bug fixes and side improvements that you could easily never notice. Because all the stuff they highlighted are things that even power users might never touch or notice were there.
I suppose that's fair, but on their yearly update schedule I'm betting just about every update in the future will be name-branded, and I doubt they'll all be UI-heavy. Either way, I still see a lot I'm excited for. Android Pay will be nice as someone who uses but has grown tired of Wallet, and contextual Google Now in apps is pretty cool as well.
Skripka said:
Probably because most people expect a major name-branded update to have something they'd visually notice....not a collection of under-the-hood bug fixes and side improvements that you could easily never notice. Because all the stuff they highlighted are things that even power users might never touch or notice were there.
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Yup just like the crazy differences between Froyo and Gingerbread. Or the transformation of Jelly Bean into Kit Kat.
In reality we have no idea what visual changes will be made because the software is not finalized. The M preview is just a dev preview so that apps can be updated with the latest APIs from day 1. They barely showed anything as it relates to M that would show any real visual differences.
People act surprised that M looks the same as L. Look at Google history most updates don't change too much (if at all) from updates. ICS to JB etc. Yes GB did have a green theme but that was already having several updates with minimal ui changes except maybe a launcher. Hell even KK was very similar to JB. Take away google now launcher and visually they look the same
Greg Tolan said:
Yup just like the crazy differences between Froyo and Gingerbread. Or the transformation of Jelly Bean into Kit Kat.
In reality we have no idea what visual changes will be made because the software is not finalized. The M preview is just a dev preview so that apps can be updated with the latest APIs from day 1. They barely showed anything as it relates to M that would show any real visual differences.
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The most frustrating thing is there are allegedly "1000s" of bug fixes from reports. They claim they're in the M preview, and they claim said preview will be available later today....I know this is a revolutionary thought, so hold on to your hat, but why not push those fixes to Lollipop and publish 5.1.2 next week? Rather than force users to have to wait possibly 5-12 months for an update they may never get (depending on their device OEM)?
The alleged number of fixes in M are an order of magnitude greater than the number of fixes in all the Lollipop updates for the Nexus 6, combined, thus far. And Lollipop is still pretty buggy, especially if you're not on a Nexus.
md1008 said:
People act surprised that M looks the same as L. Look at Google history most updates don't change too much (if at all) from updates. ICS to JB etc. Yes GB did have a green theme but that was already having several updates with minimal ui changes except maybe a launcher. Hell even KK was very similar to JB. Take away google now launcher and visually they look the same
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IIRC KK brought a bunch of notification tray improvements in ICS and JB. But that was ages ago, and I'm going off memory. Also KK ran a ton better than ICS or JB.
http://developer.android.com/preview/index.html
Live.
I find android L right now to be beautiful, and I personally don't want them to change a thing.
is it possible to flash this onto a secondary rom with multirom?