Database Users

Windows 8 Tablets Clover Trail Vs ARM

I know it's a little too early for this thread but it's going to be an interesting topics which will be debated endlessly in the next couple months. Lets face it, CES did little to convince us either options will be superior.
Background information:
Windows 8 seems to be designed for not only tablets in mind, but how the OS is intended to be used. In order to make this possible Mircosoft is designing a version of the OS to be used on ARM processors. ARM processors, found in today's tablets and smartphones, are designed for high preformance with low power consumption.
At the same time Intel has invested a lot of money and research to develop the Clover Trial Atom processor. The atom processors are the processors found in yesterdays notebooks but this new design is also intended for low power consumption.
Known Characteristics of Each:
ARM:
HTML 5 apps only
Possibly Metro UI Only
Low heat
Clover Trail:
x86 architecture. Legacy apps will be compatible as well as HTML 5 apps
Lower preformace than sandy bridge processors
Looking at the above list it seems easy to pick the clover trail but the arm processors are likely to offer better battery life.
Heat issues are also a historic known issue on x86 processors, will continue with clover trail? If a tablet requires a fan width becomes an issue.
I will continue to update the characteristic lists as updates come out so everyone can make the best informed decision possible.
-writing this from my iPad 2 which I can't wait to ditch for something in the Windows 8 flavor

Even on a tablet, I hate the win8 look. I just want my win7 desktop on my iPad 2 also.

I don't think W8 will be as innovative as they say. Windows-8 will either be a hit or a big miss.

I see at least one error in your description, however: Windows 8 on ARM will not be limited to only the HTML5+Javascript apps. They've already demonstrated applications compiled for ARM specifically (including MS Office), so it's safe to conclude we'll see both.
Personally, I LOVE the Metro UI. I think it's the most brilliant shift in UI design in the last 30 years.
For me, I'll be going Windows 8 on ARM and tossing my iPad to the side (probably sell it) as soon as it's available. I'll keep my Windows 7 desktop as-is for the sake of x86/x64 applications in a traditional interface, but Windows 8 is where the market's going. In spite of the naysayers, the odds of it failing are very, very small.
Even Windows Vista, which was a fairly awful product at launch, sold very well (not as well as XP or now 7, but still, well over 200 million units), so it's not remotely a stretch to think that Windows 8, which is slim, light and mind numbingly fast, will also sell well.

Intel's Medfield Atom has proven to be a better performer than the ARM A9 core while offering similar/better power consumption on paper. Personally I don't care for either. I'd rather get ULV Ivy Bridge and live with 4-5 hours of batterylife and probably 8-10 with a keyboard dock, if available.
A ULV Broadwell in 2014 will make all of this moot anyway, x86 chips are more powerful and has major productivity software on lock because of it. Intel is now taking heat/power consumption very seriously and Metro apps for the most part are cross platform so it's Intel's to lose, don't forget that.

dont bet against Intel.... their upcoming tri-gate and finfet tech are gonna put them right in the same league as ARM as far as power consumption is concerned..
if I were a betting man, I'd bet that ARM Windows will be a niche player, while x86 windows will continue to be the dominant flavor, even for tablets, because of Intel's ability to bring down power consumption and price.
That, plus the standardization of x86, and ability for users to install legacy apps + mess around with their OS in an easy way will sway the market far in x86's favor...

Windows 8 has one silver lining left, and that's the Office suite. Android still has no good alternative, and Apple as a killer office app, but not THE Office app.
As long as Microsoft has the mouse behave like a finger, with swiping etc.... Then they'll stand a chance. I wouldn't bet on MS though... for the consumer segment, they need strong solid partnerships, and so far they only have Nokia.

coolqf said:
Windows 8 has one silver lining left, and that's the Office suite. Android still has no good alternative, and Apple as a killer office app, but not THE Office app.
As long as Microsoft has the mouse behave like a finger, with swiping etc.... Then they'll stand a chance. I wouldn't bet on MS though... for the consumer segment, they need strong solid partnerships, and so far they only have Nokia.
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What are you talking about? They have everyone for Windows 8. Android tablets aren't selling like their phone counterparts, are OEMs are waiting impatiently to jump on board with Windows 8. Windows still has many major productivity software for 3D rendering, design (pick any type), video, etc. Android has ICS's movie make and super gimped up Adobe touch apps. Android tablets are nothing more than giant mobile phones. Windows 8 tablets will be Metro touch apps that equal Android mobile apps plus all the desktop software we professionals use.

x86 is miles ahead of arm. as soon as dev's make arm ports of x86 apps i dont know if i will bother with windows 8 on arm until then

2 questions/thoughts... call it what you will.
1. ARM ver of Win8 will (or not?) be way more closed than current (traditional Windows approach) - sort of like Windows Phone is now. Meaning if you want an app you have to get it of the store (ONLY) not from any website like today with Windows. True or False?
If true... imho this is a very bad news for ARM ver of software.
Let say you live in Europe and you want/need program that is specific for US store only. What will you do in such case? Even iOS (bad, closed system, controlled by BIG, BAD APPLE) is more frindly about this tnah Android or Windows Phone.
2. Is it possible (for current ARM SOC's) to emulate x86 (in order to get older soft to work)? I dont think so.
On the other hand x86 should be more than capable to "pretend" it is ARM device . In such case having x86 W8 onboard means we cen als use ARM software if we want to need to (unless both x86 and ARM W8 will be lock tight - but than why would anyone jump of Win7????).

fact is we have no idea what RT will bring to the table or what the software will or will not be able to do, but if we look at the hardware we see a few notable differences
ARM, ultra low watt consumption (potentially good battery life), High performance BUT less grunt so to speak, cheaper price point
x86, higher power consumption(potentially a shorter battery life compared to ARM), High performance but more bang per buck, more expensive price point.
there is a distinct difference between the two models, a difference which I think will be very important. Most every day folk will not need more than ARM, for everyone else including many business users, x86 is there
Being able to run x86 code is my primary concern, im not talking heavy work, the programs are small and light, but x86 is essential for the time being for it to be flexible.
However provided RT isn't completely tied down like WP is AND is at a reasonable price point, I think it will make great inroads in the Low/Mid range tablet market.

I started looking into tablets after September last fall. I wanted something that would give me the most bang for the buck, or at least the minimum compromise. Things broke out in 3 general sections as mentioned previously: ARM, Atom/AMDCxx and X86/AMD (higher end iCore style).
As Windows 8 goes, there will be no real difference between Atom and X86. The instruction sets are the same. Both will support Metro and Windows Legacy apps.
ARM will only support Metro.
Price seems to break along those lines, but I found an exception.
I expect the ARM versions to run in the neighborhood of $400 and less; the Atom class to be in the $400 to $800; and the full X86 to be $600 and up. Of course equipment will also impact this price.
Probably, the most significant piece of equipment will be the screen. While pricing current machines for ARM and Atom (as well as X86), the 1366x1024 resolution was rare and it is required for a split screen feature of the Metro interface.
In the end, I picked a Dell Duo with a dual core hyperthreading Atom processor because it had the required resolution and the price was down as low as anything I could find. I also got a keyboard, but suffered the weight and short battery life.
Performance has been good in most situations, though tinkering with Unity 3d seems like a bad idea on the Atom with Windows 8 (but it's not a release OS yet). And performance lags a little in Unity 3d game execution, too.
Metro looks good to me so far.
So, for an iPad style consumption usage I think the ARM is probably going to work great. Dual core if you can get it.
For a little heavier usage and legacy aps, you'll want an Atom type systyem. I'd say dual core minimum.
And if you want superior performance with no compromise, as always, expect to put the green on the table.

Something on the subject:
http://www.v3.co.uk/v3-uk/news/2173...V3&utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Twitterfeed

Lurk said:
In the end, I picked a Dell Duo with a dual core hyperthreading Atom processor because it had the required resolution and the price was down as low as anything I could find. I also got a keyboard, but suffered the weight and short battery life.
Performance has been good in most situations, though tinkering with Unity 3d seems like a bad idea on the Atom with Windows 8 (but it's not a release OS yet). And performance lags a little in Unity 3d game execution, too.
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How does internet video work for you on Win 8? What Atom is in your Duo?
I couldn't get netflix or hulu working well on an N280.
I am running 8 on an e-350 (Acer w500), and video works great, but the touch screen is poor around the edges like a number of other Windows 7 tablets where they were designed for accuracy in center, instead of across the board.
---------- Post added at 11:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:11 PM ----------
dazza9075 said:
There is a distinct difference between the two models, a difference which I think will be very important. Most every day folk will not need more than ARM, for everyone else including many business users, x86 is there.
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I actually expect a number of our business users on RT. We won't push them to it, but the option will probably be given.
Today they use:
Web based tools.
A few silverlight sites.
Office
We're likely to port our silverlight apps to METRO, first one took a little under a day. At that point, if they wanted an iPad like device, with the new news about sideloading: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/windowsstor...deploying-metro-style-apps-to-businesses.aspx
It is a pretty good fit.
Obviously designers, ops, etc are not going to find RT sufficient, but I expect a subset will. We have some that only use iPads today anyway.

michiganenginerd said:
How does internet video work for you on Win 8? What Atom is in your Duo?
I couldn't get netflix or hulu working well on an N280.
I am running 8 on an e-350 (Acer w500), and video works great, but the touch screen is poor around the edges like a number of other Windows 7 tablets where they were designed for accuracy in center, instead of across the board.
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Same question.
I had Asus 1201N (but it had dual core Atom 330 onboard + Nvidia ION card) - no problems with any video but it was HOT, VERY HOT and very noisy.
I kept Samsung NC10 (same atom chip as in 1201N but single core only and no ION). Watching any video on it is a nightmare :-(. Even YT is not working well.

How does internet video work for you on Win 8?
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Internet video seems to be very good. Currently, things run fairly smoothly. The connection speed is a bigger impact than the processor speed.
Odd item. I just tested real quick and I can now play YouTube videos in the Metro browser. I guess they have the HTML 5 delivery working.
HD on Netflix is a little choppy right now and stutters in the desktop browser. It could be the connection.
What Atom is in your Duo?
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N570 @1.67ghz
I couldn't get netflix or hulu working well on an N280
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I worried about performkance. That's why I went for a dual core at a minimum. The earlier Duo had an N560(?) at 1.5ghz. I don't think it would be enough. Again, it might be the connection, but @ HD right now, it's borderline.
Of course. sometimes it comes down to the video card/processor, too.
I am running 8 on an e-350 (Acer w500), and video works great, but the touch screen is poor around the edges like a number of other Windows 7 tablets where they were designed for accuracy in center, instead of across the board.
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I haven't experienced any issues around the edges ... or any where on the screen. I am pleased overall with the unit and was a bit disappointed when they stopped producing them in December. But, it was largely a test unit.

Thanks for the info Lurk.

Clover Trail pics
I found this article while browsing on tabletpcreview forum.
An online writer Padmx Max, got access to Clover Trails and took some pics of the board and the processor: here is the link
http://www.padmx.com/portal.php?mod=view&aid=1707
The processor is actually stacked under the memory so you can't really see it.
But it is an interesting idea.
Not sure it is Intel Z2580 or z2760 tho.

I have some questions and need suggestions

1. Are the only Windows 8 tablets without a fan equipped with Intel Atom Z2760 CPU?
2. What would you suggest when I would want a Windows 8 tablet without a fan?
Sent from my LG-P990 using xda app-developers app

Given that x86-capable processors run pretty hot, you're not going to find a lot of options. Some of the Atom chips may get by on passive cooling... maybe. Frankly, if you want a fan-less tablet, that usually means ARM, and that means Windows RT.
Of course, what with the latest hacks, the line between Win8 and Win RT is getting thinner than ever...

1. All Atom tablets are fanless as far as I know. My Samsung 500T barely even got warm and I think that was more the LCD than the processor. I don't believe there are any other x86 processors that are fanless right now.
2. Obvious an Atom tablet. You'll probably need to narrow it down a bit on what you are looking for. Is the tablet form factor more important or the laptop form factor. If using it as a tablet is more important, you'll probably want a lighter and smaller 10.1 inch tablet like the upcoming ASUS Vivotab Smart. If you want a laptop form factor with keyboard for typing, then a 11.6 inch tablet is idea for the larger keyboard size. Also do you need a pen built in, do you need a Wacom digitizer?
---------- Post added at 08:34 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:32 AM ----------
GoodDayToDie said:
Of course, what with the latest hacks, the line between Win8 and Win RT is getting thinner than ever...
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It's not that thin at all. Windows RT tablets will never be able to run x86 desktop applications with it's ARM processor. That hack just lets you run unsigned Windows RT ARM applications.
---------- Post added at 08:39 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:34 AM ----------
PS. Maybe AMD's Temash APU might be fanless. Not entirely sure yet. It's shipping Q2 this year, but don't know when we'll see any tablets with it inside.

@Ravynmagi: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2095934 Ever heard of emulation? The speed sucks - you won't be playing high-end recent games, and running something like Photoshop would be painful (as much due to the tablet's low specs as due to the emulation, in that case) but we can *already* run (a few) x86 apps on Windows RT, and adding support for more is mostly a matter of making sure the system calls are supported.

GoodDayToDie said:
@Ravynmagi: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2095934 Ever heard of emulation? The speed sucks - you won't be playing high-end recent games, and running something like Photoshop would be painful (as much due to the tablet's low specs as due to the emulation, in that case) but we can *already* run (a few) x86 apps on Windows RT, and adding support for more is mostly a matter of making sure the system calls are supported.
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An alpha tool made 4 days ago that can run notepad.exe and a 14 year old 2D game on an ARM processor. How could I have missed that?
Can you even install Photoshop, much less run it with this alpha tool yet? You can barely run Photoshop on an Atom, I think running it on an ARM through emulation will be more than painful.
I think it's a bit premature to be touting this as a solution to running x86 apps on an ARM tablet.

I view it quite differently: in any four days, an alpha tools has been written that can run simple apps, even old games, without recompiling them... and has already dramatically improved in performance.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that you're going to be completely be able to replace an x86 machine with an ARM one... but the reason for that is simply a matter of performance of the underlying hardware. For low-demand stuff (the kind of thing you might run on a fanless tablet anyhow) it's not an unreasonable goal. Of course it's not there yet... but a week ago, it wasn't possible at all.

Thanks for all the replies so far.
But what do you think, will Windows RT ever be like Windows 8 on x86? What I mean is that will it run Flash, Java and be like a desktop that is also a tablet?

Wrong post.

kaspar737 said:
Thanks for all the replies so far.
But what do you think, will Windows RT ever be like Windows 8 on x86? What I mean is that will it run Flash, Java and be like a desktop that is also a tablet?
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My opinion. I'm not sure what kind of future RT has. Why buy a Windows RT with ARM, when you can now get Windows 8 with Atom for just as cheaply ($500) that can do a lot more? Samsung and other manufactures have already abandoned their Windows RT plans, they don't see a future in it either.
By the way, Windows RT is able to run Flash if it's in Microsoft's white list of websites.

Ravynmagi said:
My opinion. I'm not sure what kind of future RT has. Why buy a Windows RT with ARM, when you can now get Windows 8 with Atom for just as cheaply ($500) that can do a lot more? Samsung and other manufactures have already abandoned their Windows RT plans, they don't see a future in it either.
By the way, Windows RT is able to run Flash if it's in Microsoft's white list of websites.
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Yeah, I'm afraid that app developers don't see a point developing apps for Windows RT. Also, RT tablets just seem to be too locked down. To me it seems that x86 tablets are like Android tablets- the experience you get is not determined by the OS maker but RT tablets are like the iPad- you can mostly do what the OS maker likes/approves.
Sent from my LG-P990 using xda app-developers app

kaspar737 said:
Yeah, I'm afraid that app developers don't see a point developing apps for Windows RT. Also, RT tablets just seem to be too locked down. To me it seems that x86 tablets are like Android tablets- the experience you get is not determined by the OS maker but RT tablets are like the iPad- you can mostly do what the OS maker likes/approves.
Sent from my LG-P990 using xda app-developers app
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Windows RT apps run on Windows 8 too and Windows 8 will be shipped on millions and millions of computers around the world. So I think the Windows Store apps (aka Metro style) that run on RT and 8 will eventually show up in good numbers from developers. So if you do go with Windows RT, the apps will come, even if people abandon the OS and hardware platform.
Windows 8 has the best of both worlds though, you can run the RT apps and the x86 apps. And the Atom is the best of both worlds, the efficiency of an ARM processor with the ability to run x86 apps.

Atom is hardly the efficiency of ARM... it's just the first x86 processor to get within the same order of magnitude. They still need bigger batteries and/or suffer lower battery life. Mind you, they're closer than I thought x86 (which is an inherently inefficient design in some ways, due to the extreme complexity of the instruction decoder required) would get.

GoodDayToDie said:
Atom is hardly the efficiency of ARM... it's just the first x86 processor to get within the same order of magnitude. They still need bigger batteries and/or suffer lower battery life. Mind you, they're closer than I thought x86 (which is an inherently inefficient design in some ways, due to the extreme complexity of the instruction decoder required) would get.
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http://www.anandtech.com/show/6536/arm-vs-x86-the-real-showdown
"Whereas I didn't really have anything new to conclude in the original article (Atom Z2760 is faster and more power efficient than Tegra 3), there's a lot to talk about here. We already know that Atom is faster than Krait, but from a power standpoint the two SoCs are extremely competitive. At the platform level Intel (at least in the Acer W510) generally leads in power efficiency."

Ravynmagi said:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6536/arm-vs-x86-the-real-showdown
"Whereas I didn't really have anything new to conclude in the original article (Atom Z2760 is faster and more power efficient than Tegra 3), there's a lot to talk about here. We already know that Atom is faster than Krait, but from a power standpoint the two SoCs are extremely competitive. At the platform level Intel (at least in the Acer W510) generally leads in power efficiency."
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You could just link to the article
And, yes, the Atom Z2760 is more power efficient.
As far as tablets go, though, all the Atom tablets I've looked at have felt like cheap toys, whereas the Surface is possibly the best built device I've ever used. That's the main reason I chose the Surface RT, it just blows all the competition away in build quality.
As far as applications go, neither the Atom nor the Tegra are very well suited for intensive tasks like Photoshop and the like. They're both going to perform quite poorly at those tasks.
The Atom does have the existing software library, though in reality a large number of what people will need/want to use has already been ported over to Arm.
An interesting thing to note is that even though the Atom is more efficient than the Tegra the Surface still had better battery life compared to the W510 by almost an hour.
Build Quality: Surface beats W510 hands down. Acer has okay build quality, but the Surface is superb.
Performance: The Atom nudges out the Tegra
Applications: Any applications that need x86 won't be usable on the Atom, but they will run, so the Atom wins. The Tegra is rapidly catching up, though.
Battery Life: The Surface beat the W510 by nearly an hour, therefore I'm calling it in favor of the Surface. The Atom itself is more efficient, but that doesn't mean that the tablets built using the Atom are.

I stand corrected. Atom, even an older Atom, is surprisingly competitive with ARM on a power efficiency standpoint. I don't know that I agree with handing it the win outright, it won some of the "total usage" charts but lost some of the others, occasionally substantially. It's certainly a viable option for a mobile device though. Interesting... time was, Intel had difficulty squeezing their chips down to 5W, while ARM was expected to run at around 300mW. Apparently I need to keep a better eye on these things.

64 Bit K1?

So the Nexus 9 is supposed to have a 64 bit Tegra K1, anyone else find it anoying that the Shield wasnt released with this?

The Shield was released in July, looks like the Nexus 9 will be released in November. Maybe wasn't ready in time?

The nexus Won't be 64 bit.

It remains to be seen whether Nvidia's CPU architecture in the Denver is up to snuff, given they're using an architecture that hasn't really been successfully implemented in the past (in order compiling). I'd wait until devices with it are in users hands before feeling disappointed in the lack of the 64-bit K1 in our Shields.

ShrekOpher said:
The nexus Won't be 64 bit.
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check again
http://www.google.com/nexus/9/

USBhost said:
check again
http://www.google.com/nexus/9/
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It is 399 for a 16gb with NO MicroSD slot though or 499 for one with NO MicroSD slot still

USBhost said:
check again
http://www.google.com/nexus/9/
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Looks like I was wrong, but with only 2GB of RAM it is not going to be a noticeable improve over other K1 devices. Seems more like a beta test to me than an actually full 64bit use case.

ShrekOpher said:
Looks like I was wrong, but with only 2GB of RAM it is not going to be a noticeable improve over other K1 devices. Seems more like a beta test to me than an actually full 64bit use case.
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how can something be half. its either 32 vs 64
But if you look at the newer apple products they are 64 and only have 1GB of RAM

USBhost said:
how can something be half. its either 32 vs 64
But if you look at the newer apple products they are 64 and only have 1GB of RAM
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The main point of using 64bit is to be able to properly take advantage of systems that have more than 4GB of RAM.
There are benefits to having a 64bit system besides that, but in all reality they will not even be notifiable on a machine with only 2GB of RAM.
Basically Giggle is using the Nexus 9 to pilot 64bit Android and allow devs to build apps for that new setup. And end user will not recognize the difference until there are phone/tablets/android laptops with more than 4GB of RAM.
Sent from my SHIELD Tablet using XDA Free mobile app

I think it has 4GB
ShrekOpher said:
The main point of using 64bit is to be able to properly take advantage of systems that have more than 4GB of RAM.
There are benefits to having a 64bit system besides that, but in all reality they will not even be notifiable on a machine with only 2GB of RAM.
Basically Giggle is using the Nexus 9 to pilot 64bit Android and allow devs to build apps for that new setup. And end user will not recognize the difference until there are phone/tablets/android laptops with more than 4GB of RAM.
Sent from my SHIELD Tablet using XDA Free mobile app
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I was on flipboard a while ago and I'm sure I read that the nexus 9 will have 4GB not 2GB. I didnt like that since I just got my shield tablet, but games are super fast with no lag so I will not complain to much

Moeali8 said:
I was on flipboard a while ago and I'm sure I read that the nexus 9 will have 4GB not 2GB. I didnt like that since I just got my shield tablet, but games are super fast with no lag so I will not complain to much
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Well rumors are just that. Google on their own page is touting 2 gb of ram so there's no difference there between that and the shield tablet. Supposedly the denver core K1 though will be an emulation MONSTER its an in order processor, but it is 7x superscalar. Since pretty much all emulation is single threaded the hope is that it will be able to run the dolphin emulator with decent framerates on a tablet. All in all i'm glad I chose the shield, at 399 for 32 gb and lte I think its a very competitive price. Sure the nexus 9 has a larger screen and higher resolution, but i like the 8" form factor i wouldn't be able to fit anything else in my pocket. We probably won't see a whole lot of apps that truly are optimized for 64 bit instruction set for a while, until it becomes the norm. Also the expandable memory and the stylus are pretty awesome. I do wonder though if Nvidia is going to make available Half-Life 2 and Portal to the nexus 9, IMO they'd be foolish not to. Also Gamestream and Shield Controller support is something that I think they should offer support for with all their OEMs that use thier SOC's but i really doubt that will happen.

RAM is not the main reason to use 64-bit processors. That's only one of many benefits.
However, the N9 will not have a great benefit. Currently there is more out there that supports Quad-Core more than it supports 64-bit. The architecture does offer multiple benefits, but it really won't help much currently.
Also to note, the N9 will be a DUAL-CORE K1. Nvidia calls it a "Dual Super Core", but when you break it down... It's a dual-core SoC.
Maybe in a year or two we might see some real world improvements that the N9 gets over the Shield Tablet, but currently they'll be nearly identical.
It offers 64-bit, but lacks a number of K1 benefits (as has been stated above). For the price and what you get, the Shield Tablet wins out any day over the N9.
Also, anyone that thinks the main reason for 64-bit is to be able to recognize 4+GB of RAM... Please do some research. There are SO MANY other, more important advances. RAM is only a small piece of a very large puzzle for 64-bit architecture.

1112
livinonnoslp said:
Well rumors are just that. Google on their own page is touting 2 gb of ram so there's no difference there between that and the shield tablet. Supposedly the denver core K1 though will be an emulation MONSTER its an in order processor, but it is 7x superscalar. Since pretty much all emulation is single threaded the hope is that it will be able to run the dolphin emulator with decent framerates on a tablet. All in all i'm glad I chose the shield, at 399 for 32 gb and lte I think its a very competitive price. Sure the nexus 9 has a larger screen and higher resolution, but i like the 8" form factor i wouldn't be able to fit anything else in my pocket. We probably won't see a whole lot of apps that truly are optimized for 64 bit instruction set for a while, until it becomes the norm. Also the expandable memory and the stylus are pretty awesome. I do wonder though if Nvidia is going to make available Half-Life 2 and Portal to the nexus 9, IMO they'd be foolish not to. Also Gamestream and Shield Controller support is something that I think they should offer support for with all their OEMs that use thier SOC's but i really doubt that will happen.
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I agree and I'm happy with my wifi only, wish they had a 32gb wifi option not just the lte but the external sd card works

The shield tablet has a magnesium plate to cool the cpu for no throttling the nexus 9 will not have this and will throttle and lag in games like hell.

rubene66 said:
The shield tablet has a magnesium plate to cool the cpu for no throttling the nexus 9 will not have this and will throttle and lag in games like hell.
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My dear friend
the whole tablet will cool it down
you know its metal

The borders is metal the rest is plastic
USBhost said:
My dear friend
the whole tablet will cool it down
you know its metal
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rubene66 said:
The shield tablet has a magnesium plate to cool the cpu for no throttling the nexus 9 will not have this and will throttle and lag in games like hell.
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Is this really true?

Let's just wait for the reviews anandtech test well that we will see.
tyvar1 said:
Is this really true?
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tyvar1 said:
Is this really true?
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It's true that the shield is built with a large magnesium heat plate designed by Nvidia for optimal heat displacement. I would guess they probably worked with HTC some too though.
Sent from my SHIELD Tablet using Tapatalk

Hopefully with Lollipop SD card restrictions previously applied by Apple, I mean Google, in KitKat will be lifted.

Shield k1 (2)? Marshmallow? 199 bucks?

http://m.androidcentral.com/nvidia-announces-shield-tablet-k1-refreshed-model-new-low-price
Smart move I guess. Throw it in a different box and pretend it's new. Sounds like an htc stunt. This makes sense though, considering the battery issue with this model.
http://m.androidcentral.com/nvidia-...pdate-shield-tablet-k1-original-shield-tablet
But as of now we are confirmed for marshmallow probably after the holidays, which is all I really care about. I gotta have that marshmallow!
Sent from my HTC M9 using Tapatalk

Its technically still one of the best android tablets for CPU and GPU. I would of loved to have seen it with the Tegra X1 but with the tablet market not really strong, even apple is having issues with the market, I can understand not updating it.

It's truly seems to be one of the best performing tablets at this price point, i'am very interested in it vs Nexus 9, what would be your opinion? Only thing i'am concerned in is screen ratio, how good it is for e-book reading? And is there enough estate for general browsing? I own some pretty crappy Chinese 10" Onda tablet and looking for an upgrade. Though i don't know if i would use Shields gaming environment to the max.

NoOneLt said:
It's truly seems to be one of the best performing tablets at this price point, i'am very interested in it vs Nexus 9, what would be your opinion? Only thing i'am concerned in is screen ratio, how good it is for e-book reading? And is there enough estate for general browsing? I own some pretty crappy Chinese 10" Onda tablet and looking for an upgrade. Though i don't know if i would use Shields gaming environment to the max.
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As long as you know how to change the system DPI to 240 then its great, I personally hate the stock DPI that they put on it, with the stock DPI it literally just feels like an enlarged phone. But as soon as you change it to 240 then its great.

NoOneLt said:
It's truly seems to be one of the best performing tablets at this price point, i'am very interested in it vs Nexus 9, what would be your opinion? Only thing i'am concerned in is screen ratio, how good it is for e-book reading? And is there enough estate for general browsing? I own some pretty crappy Chinese 10" Onda tablet and looking for an upgrade. Though i don't know if i would use Shields gaming environment to the max.
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I use mine for reading books, specifically pdf books of networking materials, and it works really well for that. The screen is amazing for comics. The tablet is a gaming beast and not much can touch its gpu capabilities. Admittedly, I don't do much gaming but I did do a playthrough of ff9 with ePSXe without a HITCH. It's without a doubt a gaming beast when it comes to android devices.
A small comparison lists of the things that are different between Nexus 9 and Shield Tablet:
Nexus 9 vs Shield Tablet
Screen
Nexus: 8.9in, 2048x1536
Shield Tablet: 8in, 1920x1200
Expandable storage
Nexus: None
Shield Tablet: up to 128gb microsd card
Cpu:
Nexus: 64 bit
Shield tablet: 32 bit
GPU:
Same
Ram:
Same
Speakers:
Shield tablet wins hands down
Android updates:
Nexus still has at least 2 more years of android updates
Shield Tablet is getting marshmallow for sure but the next one after is more than likely but not guaranteed.
Fair warning though:
The custom roms on this device have audio issues that happen randomly and it can be annoying. I haven't found a rom that don't have this issue, some are worst than others. There hasn't been a solution to it either from what I've seen.

miss message

The nexus 9 has a better resolution, 2048x1536 vs the 1920x1200 on the shield. The CPUs are a 64bit 2.3Ghz dual core on the N9 and a 32bit 2.2 Quad on the ST. I haven't used an N9 so I can't really add anymore than that.

The shield has an SD card slot, front facing speakers, and wide screen. I read ebooks all the time on the shield and think it's perfect for that. The nexus might get slightly better battery life, but not much more. I was deciding between the two and picked the shield because with the thinner screen I can type very well with my thumbs. My 10.1 tablet is just too big to type on. I imagine with the wider screen the nexus would have that same problem. I would buy the shield for 300 bucks right now if I didn't own one so at 200 it's a steal.
Sent from my SHIELD Tablet using Tapatalk

And what about x32 vs x64 on Nexus, though dual core? What is the future of it? Is it possible that at some point after a year Nexus will have better performance because of x64?

Probably when all tablet and smartphone are x64...they, maybe, developera start to create app that take advantage of x64 CPU...
But there is the possibility that they start to use gpgpu even on smartphone and this is an advantage for tegra hardware
Nobody knows...

Yeah it's hard to say. But at 200 bucks the shield blows away anything in its price range. And I much prefer the wide screen and front facing speakers. I spent a lot of time debating the nexus and the shield in my head and I just didn't want a 4:3 and I really wanted an SD card slot.
Sent from my HTC M9 using Tapatalk

NoOneLt said:
And what about x32 vs x64 on Nexus, though dual core? What is the future of it? Is it possible that at some point after a year Nexus will have better performance because of x64?
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They're equal for multicore performance but the single core performance is much stronger with the 64bit variant. In everyday use, you won't notice it.

nbollinger said:
They're equal for multicore performance but the single core performance is much stronger with the 64bit variant. In everyday use, you won't notice it.
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Thats the thing, most of the users of this tablet use it for gaming. Its a shame the new tablet doesn't have 64bit, but at least it is worth the price.

According to this benchmarks seems like if i would not care about Shield PC streaming or exclusive game in pure performance Nexus is doing better? As i see single core almost 2x better and this would be utilized most in applications not optimized for multi-core? And multi-core is around the same level...
But maybe Marshmallow on Shield could bring another results.

I wait for Shield Tablet 2

Had both, but sold the N9 some weeks ago. My problem with it was, i play a lot WOT Blitz and on the Nexus with max graphics the fps drops from 60 to between 50 and 35 after some minutes of gaming. But the Shield Tab stays most of the time on 60fps and if it drops its still between 50-60 fps and this with maxed out Graphics!

cyraxx84 said:
Had both, but sold the N9 some weeks ago. My problem with it was, i play a lot WOT Blitz and on the Nexus with max graphics the fps drops from 60 to between 50 and 35 after some minutes of gaming. But the Shield Tab stays most of the time on 60fps and if it drops its still between 50-60 fps and this with maxed out Graphics!
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That's pretty interesting, nexus and shield tablet have the same gpu.

nbollinger said:
That's pretty interesting, nexus and shield tablet have the same gpu.
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Nexus 9 put more pressure on GPU with higher screen resolution and use a dual core CPU

Anyone who has the K1 can you answer some questions for me?
Does your bottom speaker move? i noticed earlier that I can make it click by pressing on it lightly :S also is there only 1 speaker behind each grill? the speaker on the top I can feel the vibration of how loud it is but the bottom one I can't.
Think it's faulty but that's why i'm asking.

faulty

doubt in Windows version

can you create powerpoint on lenovo yoga book just like you do in a normal laptop/pc

technically, yes you can. however, you should consider this two point. first, it has atom processor. if you want to create ppt including high resolution picture or high definition movie, it should be slow(but i think it's not a big deal). second, it's input device(halo keyboard and track pad) is naughty. you are going to mad if you don't have external keyboard and mouse. conclusion. it possible but for your mental fitness, you need bt keyboard and bt mouse or etc.

all office suite working great if you don't mind the performance of the processor. I've been using my YB for light office work, including editing ppt, and it has been nice to me.

The android version is also capable of producing powerpoint presentations. I chose the android version due to the processor and ram available. For android, the 4 gigs of ram plus the atom x5 processor is very snappy. For windows, the same specs are decidedly underpowered. Along with the 64gb storage, it makes for a low end windows 2in1, but a premium android device.
For the same price, amazon has an acer laptop with a 15.6 inch screen, 8 gigs of ram, discrete graphics, 256gb ssd and an i5. I don't see a major advantage of the windows yoga book in this price range.

uuang said:
The android version is also capable of producing powerpoint presentations. I chose the android version due to the processor and ram available. For android, the 4 gigs of ram plus the atom x5 processor is very snappy. For windows, the same specs are decidedly underpowered. Along with the 64gb storage, it makes for a low end windows 2in1, but a premium android device.
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This was my reasoning also.
To be honest, I probably favor Windows over Android, but I really wanted this particular device, and for Windows I don't think the specs are up to speed. It'll do pretty much everything, but you'll be waiting a lot.

For ppt on android, which app did you guys use? I'm new to android tablet and I'm loving it, but I'm wondering how I can work on ppt, excel, and a few other windsows app on yogabook android.