Database Users

"Elephant in the room" aka problems we don't talk about.

So, I'll probably be buying this phone very soon, once it hits shelves in local T-mobile store.
While everyone is ecstatic about it, I feel we should discuss the real problems we could encounter down the road, the ones that could threaten our positive experience later.
Some of them are:
1) Non-removable battery and low repairability overall.
Although most people change their phones every 2 years (which is claimed battery life of HTC One), there are still some of us who might keep it for prolonged period of time. How does it change and can it be changed at all - at least without butchering the phone? I'm aware that there are additional insurances which you can buy with your plan, but there are none here where I live and I'm pretty sure it's also not available in all countries.
Who performs the repairs on it and how do they do it? HTC themselves or some associates with questionable professionalism? Personally, I wouldn't want any of them to butcher my phone then glue it quickly and resend it to me like that, which is what could happen, for example, if you would need to replace your screen.
2) Low resale value due to non-removable battery and low repairability overall.
This is still questionable, but plausible nevertheless.
3) Infrequent software updates.
I've never owned a HTC device before, but I hear and read that they are not famous about pushing updates often and regularly. This could be an issue once they exit the spotlight and this "pre-sale" period is over, things start to settle down with competition, etc.
4) Obsolescence in case they come up with "One+" or something like that.
It's a common practice nowadays, to launch newer, better, improved same device with similar name, approximately a year after the original comes out. I believe we all know about iPhone 4 --> 4s, Galaxy S2 --> S2 Plus, HTC One X --> One X+, etc.
I think it would piss me off to see they've come up with One+ (with, let's say, 8MP Ultrapixel camera, Android 5.0 out of the box, bigger battery, etc.) a year later. In such case, you are again left with lowered resale value, broken nerves and skinnier wallet.
Let's be honest, it could easily happen and not everyone's impressed with current 4MP performer, although it's good (great at times), it's still average in daylight and above average in low light - in my opinion, which may differ from yours, so no flaming please. All this adds to increased wish to swap it for One+ and produces happiness if you can, but disappointment and sadness in case you can't (which is kind of a problem).
5) Can't think of more "elephants", if you do, write it down and I'll add it here if you wish.
Thanks.

i'm sure there will be a strong reason if you're not immediately banned for trolling

Why would that be and what makes you think I'm a troll? Just because I'm more "down to Earth"? Actually I find your post useless.

He's not trolling, he's quite right about the points he's making. Don't emberrass yourself if you don't know what trolling actually means.
I really want to know who will change my One's battery when I wanted to because I don't buy phones every 2 years.

Points 1 and 2 are valid for iPhones too, yet they have a very high resale value.
Regarding 3, HTC is actually quite good with updates, big updates to Sense too, which are often more important than android updates anyway but even with these HTC is often first or second with updates.
Regarding 4, I agree, I want to own the best HTC phone for about a year, not 6 months. At least Samsung and Apple don't release a new top phone every other season.

Yes lets live on the what ifs. My complaints would be more abouttheactual problems. Touch buttons not responding etc
Sent from my HTC One using xda premium

1) Im sure HTC will offer a service to replace the battery. It will probably be more expensive than for other phones, and what they will probably do is give you a reconditioned unit and use your phone for parts.
2) A phone should not be seen as an investment.
3) We've already received a significant update only 1 monty after release, so hopefully the trend continues.
4) This will be the case with any phone you buy. The pace at which the mobile industry goes, phones become "old" within 6-12 months.

That's why we are given a choice. If those "elephant in the room" really bothers you, then don't get the phone, choose another one that can live by your expectations. There isn't really a point in this thread. We all know these things, yet we still buy it. Why? Because it is the phone we choose, in spite of those elephant in the room you're talking about.
Don't like it? Choose another phone. Simple.

What is wrong with you OP?.
1. iFixit is a bunch of electronics "enthusiasts" at best. Their score only points out that the phone isn't repairable via their method. HTC has ways of repairing phone. How do you think they developed and tested the phone without having a way in? It is glued togehter, but how else would you make it 0-gap? The surely won't be running butcher knives around device to tear the case apart. They have what it's called service guide. Yes it may not be only 4 screws in plastic mold behind the plastic cover
2. See above
3. HTC has the best update history and that has been proven. BTW One X got last update less than a month ago, and the next one is incoming, bringing Sense 5 and latest jellybean. They were about 3 weeks later on jellybean with One X vs S3, but considering how much bigger samsung is and how flawed their update launch was with bricks and stuff, htc is doing an amazing job.
4. Every phone gets obsolete in 6m-1y. It's a fast pace technology. HTC has fitted all the best components in One. So has Samsung with S4. Just watch out what happens to s4 after note 3 comes out. Or to One after rumored M10 is released. If you plan to resale your phone go to the fruity company, their products usually keep value better.
5. The only "big elephant! in here is you unfortunately. Now go hide in a cave you troll.
And please close this thread someone...

for point2: try getting a Sony's flagship phone and wait until they push you an update 2 years later, lol. HTC pushes update out very frequently, only problem is that the update does not reach all regions/carrier at the same time. you may have to wait a bit but not very long (except if u're stuck with a carrier then... it's gonna be quite a long time, they're the one who's delaying the updates)

stirkac said:
What is wrong with you OP?.
5. The only "big elephant! in here is you unfortunately. Now go hide in a cave you troll.
And please close this thread someone...
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Click to collapse
Wow, it amazes me how some people lack manners and ability to maintain mature discussion. I'm not your World of Warcraft character kid, so stop insulting.
1) I don't know who iFixit are, to me they are people who disassemble stuff and rate their repairability. "One" scored lowest grade on that, so why not mention it? "HTC has ways" means you don't know, the rest of your arguments are based on assumptions, thus are irrelevant.
2) I mentioned low resale value, not because I'm in business of selling phones or do I view it as investment, but because there are factors which reduce it's value over time - it's a fact, and could possibly make it a nightmare to sell it after 2 years. When your battery starts to die, you can't replace it and everybody will ask you "how old is it? how's the battery?", because people DO ask these questions. I have Galaxy S2 and will sell it in matter of days. By now, everybody asked me "is battery in good shape?". I always tell them the truth - it's a 2 year old phone, battery isn't that great anymore. You know what they say then? "OK, so I'll replace it if I buy it, thanks". Do you think this conversation would be easier with One in question? If not, to what extent would it make it more difficult?
3) Some say contrary, that they're always late - as I said, I wouldn't know, I guess I'll have to see it for myself. I reserve the right to be mistaken, but thanks for the info.
4) That's debatable, personally, I don't believe that "they've put all the best components" c*ap. I believe they've held it for their improved units which are around the corner, which pi**es me off, but you probably don't understand that.
As for the 5), your post is reported, please don't bother to reply if you can't maintain normal discussion.
mrhahn98 said:
for point2: try getting a Sony's flagship phone and wait until they push you an update 2 years later, lol. HTC pushes update out very frequently, only problem is that the update does not reach all regions/carrier at the same time. you may have to wait a bit but not very long (except if u're stuck with a carrier then... it's gonna be quite a long time, they're the one who's delaying the updates)
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Click to collapse
That makes sense :good:

Thread closed
All the points offered here were already discussed a million times, so this thread adds nothing. Instead it provides a first class trolling ground.
No use for that, tbh.

From the inside looking out...

I'm sure for many people, the last 24 hours has sucked in regards to SHIELD. I know for me it has. And even more frustrating is the lack of communication and transparency that should be expected from a large corporation who cares about its customers. Obviously, I feel the anger and frustration that is being vented both in the geforce forums and, to a lesser extent, over here on XDA. And I have no other outlet than XDA. First, and foremost, realize that the decision to delay the product, the reasons behind it, and the execution of the delay are unrelated. I, along with many, feel they really messed up on the execution of the announcement. Am I disappointed? Of course I am. There are hundreds of engineers around the world who have been putting in long hours for months (some of us, even over a year) to make this product. This is a passion for us. I, personally, involved myself into community aspects of the device. For example, I was one of the voices asking for the device to be unlockable. And NVIDIA didn't put up a fight for it, they agreed. Deep down, the heart of the company wants the best for everyone.
I'd like to answer a few questions that I ask myself, as a developer and a member of the XDA community:
1. Do you plan to run CM on the device, and why?
This is always a very important question for me while at work. This question is important because it represents all the shortcomings I feel exist in the product. But I'm not the average user, I'm an XDA member. That means that additional settings do not scare me. Ease of use can be reduced in the name of more advanced functionality. And Google Certification is a requirement that CM doesn't have. But I think deeply about every feature I want from a custom ROM, and what the product should do. Ultimately, yes, I plan to install CM. And it is because of the advanced tweaks available in CM that don't belong in a standard user device.
2. Do you think the device is worth it?
Do I think the device is worth the long hours, the stress, the loss of my personal development time (which is why I had to mostly drop the EVO 3D), and the time away from my kids? Obviously, that question also has the benefits I've gotten, like attending CES and Google I/O. But ultimately, I still work on it, and I still want it to be the best it can be. So the answer has to be yes.
3. This whole debacle is ridiculous, shouldn't I just cancel my pre-order? NVIDIA obviously doesn't know how to launch a product...
This comes back to the earlier message. Engineers build a product, marketing sells a product, and the company as a whole is represented by the product. The mistakes made in the messaging and delays don't represent the engineering and product, they represent a company which still has some lessons in releasing a customer product. It's easy to get emotionally wrapped up in it, because the disappointment so close to the release. And I'm not immune. If anything, I've also got the disappointment in the world finally getting to see what we've done and use it. That's why I'm writing this thread, because it helps me express my feelings in a constructive way.
4. What would you change?
I'm slowly becoming disenchanted with Google's AOSP design. While I love the product being so close to AOSP, it reminds me how ugly AOSP really is. I don't want something like Sense or Touchwiz. What I want is AOSP, but sharper looking and using the graphical power of modern devices. Does everything really need a flat gray look? TWRP looks ugly to me, compared to the install phase of 4EXT. Halo is outdated and sad-looking. I want glass effects, I want sharp text and lines. I want to feel like the display is sharp and crisp while in the launcher and settings. I want my settings to have tabs (like MIUI used to have, maybe still does?) for the different areas. But again, the goal is to line up with AOSP, which I can respect.
Ok, so I'm out of questions and I'm feeling a bit better. If you have questions for me, be my guest... I'll do my best to answer, and when I can't, I'll do my best to get an official answer...

agrabren said:
I'm sure for many people, the last 24 hours has sucked in regards to SHIELD. I know for me it has. And even more frustrating is the lack of communication and transparency that should be expected from a large corporation who cares about its customers. Obviously, I feel the anger and frustration that is being vented both in the geforce forums and, to a lesser extent, over here on XDA. And I have no other outlet than XDA. First, and foremost, realize that the decision to delay the product, the reasons behind it, and the execution of the delay are unrelated. I, along with many, feel they really messed up on the execution of the announcement. Am I disappointed? Of course I am. There are hundreds of engineers around the world who have been putting in long hours for months (some of us, even over a year) to make this product. This is a passion for us. I, personally, involved myself into community aspects of the device. For example, I was one of the voices asking for the device to be unlockable. And NVIDIA didn't put up a fight for it, they agreed. Deep down, the heart of the company wants the best for everyone.
I'd like to answer a few questions that I ask myself, as a developer and a member of the XDA community:
1. Do you plan to run CM on the device, and why?
This is always a very important question for me while at work. This question is important because it represents all the shortcomings I feel exist in the product. But I'm not the average user, I'm an XDA member. That means that additional settings do not scare me. Ease of use can be reduced in the name of more advanced functionality. And Google Certification is a requirement that CM doesn't have. But I think deeply about every feature I want from a custom ROM, and what the product should do. Ultimately, yes, I plan to install CM. And it is because of the advanced tweaks available in CM that don't belong in a standard user device.
2. Do you think the device is worth it?
Do I think the device is worth the long hours, the stress, the loss of my personal development time (which is why I had to mostly drop the EVO 3D), and the time away from my kids? Obviously, that question also has the benefits I've gotten, like attending CES and Google I/O. But ultimately, I still work on it, and I still want it to be the best it can be. So the answer has to be yes.
3. This whole debacle is ridiculous, shouldn't I just cancel my pre-order? NVIDIA obviously doesn't know how to launch a product...
This comes back to the earlier message. Engineers build a product, marketing sells a product, and the company as a whole is represented by the product. The mistakes made in the messaging and delays don't represent the engineering and product, they represent a company which still has some lessons in releasing a customer product. It's easy to get emotionally wrapped up in it, because the disappointment so close to the release. And I'm not immune. If anything, I've also got the disappointment in the world finally getting to see what we've done and use it. That's why I'm writing this thread, because it helps me express my feelings in a constructive way.
4. What would you change?
I'm slowly becoming disenchanted with Google's AOSP design. While I love the product being so close to AOSP, it reminds me how ugly AOSP really is. I don't want something like Sense or Touchwiz. What I want is AOSP, but sharper looking and using the graphical power of modern devices. Does everything really need a flat gray look? TWRP looks ugly to me, compared to the install phase of 4EXT. Halo is outdated and sad-looking. I want glass effects, I want sharp text and lines. I want to feel like the display is sharp and crisp while in the launcher and settings. I want my settings to have tabs (like MIUI used to have, maybe still does?) for the different areas. But again, the goal is to line up with AOSP, which I can respect.
Ok, so I'm out of questions and I'm feeling a bit better. If you have questions for me, be my guest... I'll do my best to answer, and when I can't, I'll do my best to get an official answer...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thanks man!
am i sad about the delay? yeah a little. but i respect Nvidia as a company and I know they can deliver. and if they need an extra month(or 4) to do so, im perfectly ok with it. from the gpu's to the specs to the videos, websites and drivers.. i love almost everything about Nvidia and a botched release date is NOT going to make me cancel my pre-order.
I hope nvidia uses this time to add/optimize a few extra streamable games

Excuse me for the non-Shield related question, I just wanted to know if you definetly dropped the EVO 3D or in future you probably come back..of course you don't have to give a single explaination to anybody, but if you won't develop anymore for evo, probably I will change device because there isn't a fully functional and stable rom (with or without 3D) with a new version of jelly bean and I have to stuck on the old Android 4.0..I appreciate the efforts that many developers are still making for this quite-old device, but some bugs probably won't never be fixed without you (i'm talking about battery drain, bootloops..).
Sorry for the off topic..

I know delays can happen. What frustrates me is the short notice and the fact that specs in the mobile world get outdated in about 6 months. I want this device while it is the cream of the crop as far as specifications are concerned. I don't think it was a coincidence that Gamestop had the release date listed as 6/30 for awhile.

Evo_Shift said:
I know delays can happen. What frustrates me is the short notice and the fact that specs in the mobile world get outdated in about 6 months. I want this device while it is the cream of the crop as far as specifications are concerned. I don't think it was a coincidence that Gamestop had the release date listed as 6/30 for awhile.
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Click to collapse
The 6/30 release date was because we listed "by the end of June" as our target launch date before we made had set a hard launch date. So GameStop did the obvious: June has 30 days, so it ships June 30th.

gigsaw said:
Excuse me for the non-Shield related question, I just wanted to know if you definetly dropped the EVO 3D or in future you probably come back..of course you don't have to give a single explaination to anybody, but if you won't develop anymore for evo, probably I will change device because there isn't a fully functional and stable rom (with or without 3D) with a new version of jelly bean and I have to stuck on the old Android 4.0..I appreciate the efforts that many developers are still making for this quite-old device, but some bugs probably won't never be fixed without you (i'm talking about battery drain, bootloops..).
Sorry for the off topic..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My future on the EVO 3D is on a feature-by-feature basis. As was pointed out accurately, since I don't run the OS as a daily, I don't see the issues like I did when it was my primary device.

Community?

I hate to ask this, but it seems the N9 community leaves a lot to be desired on XDA. There seems to be very little development and conversation.
For instance, the 5.0.1 update just came out and there is very little conversation on something that will likely fix a few of the bugs we see on our N9.
I certainly appreciate the developers, experts and general enthusiasts that do take part. Is there another site with more activity?

I believe there are so far very few owners.
This is a new product, things will pick up.
There are people complaining about light bleeding and battery life.

I can say I feel the same way. Wondering why there is so little going on around here.
I got my N5 day one and don't remember that board being this quiet/slow.

Count me in on that too. This is definently the most quite I've experienced in a forum, guessing that some of my old communities still are more active than this. I thougt people would be flocking to the N9, but I guess the mixed reviews put them off.
Smashed down on the mighty Nexus 9

Gormsen said:
Count me in on that too. This is definently the most quite I've experienced in a forum, guessing that some of my old communities still are more active than this. I thougt people would be flocking to the N9, but I guess the mixed reviews put them off.
Smashed down on the mighty Nexus 9
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Click to collapse
I agree. It's slower than I expected and disappointing. I hope that once the major roms get their kinks worked out and developers get more comfortable with the 64 bit architecture that there will be more development.

Gormsen said:
but I guess the mixed reviews put them off.
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Click to collapse
It's really unfortunate. I won't excuse the various hardware issues, but I actually look forward to the opportunity to improve the software of my N9 using ROMs and kernels. That's why I love android and come to XDA.
I can't help but feeling that the N9 review and subsequent comparison with the iPad over at that android-enthusiast site (not sure whether I'm allowed to say the name, but I think many of you know which site I'm referring to) directly impacted the popularity of this device within the android community. I expect mainstream sites to bash Nexus devices and make endless comparisons to Apple products, but it hit pretty hard coming from an Android site. When a site devoted to all things Android basically tells readers to buy an iPad instead, the community is bound to lose interest.
At the risk of assigning too much credit to that review, I'm becoming convinced that it has set off some sort of "change" in the Android community. More and more, I'm seeing individuals that were likely Android-enthusiasts like myself write off the N9 and Lollipop because of that review. It's like they forgot why they loved Android to begin with. We have what may be the first device with a processor and GPU as powerful or more powerful than the latest iPad, and no one wants to touch it. Just look at the Batterylife thread: all you see is rampant comparisons to the iPad. Why is it suddenly so important that an Android device's battery life match an Apple device's? Why not compare its battery life to other Android tablets? Why is the decision regarding which tablet to purchase suddenly only between the N9 and an iPad? What about all the other Android tablets? It's like they don't exist. (And I don't buy that it's the aspect ratio. This obsession with the aspect ratio has set off a false narrative that the N9 is the only true Android alternative to the iPad - as if Samsung and Sony wouldn't rather folks buy their tablets instead of Apple's). This situation is par for the course within the mainstream tech community, but not normally at Android enthusiast sites and XDA.
Anyway...sorry...just had to rant for a bit.

cor_mann said:
It's really unfortunate. I won't excuse the various hardware issues, but I actually look forward to the opportunity to improve the software of my N9 using ROMs and kernels. That's why I love android and come to XDA.
I can't help but feeling that the N9 review and subsequent comparison with the iPad over at that android-enthusiast site (not sure whether I'm allowed to say the name, but I think many of you know which site I'm referring to) directly impacted the popularity of this device within the android community. I expect mainstream sites to bash Nexus devices and make endless comparisons to Apple products, but it hit pretty hard coming from an Android site. When a site devoted to all things Android basically tells readers to buy an iPad instead, the community is bound to lose interest.
At the risk of assigning too much credit to that review, I'm becoming convinced that it has set off some sort of "change" in the Android community. More and more, I'm seeing individuals that were likely Android-enthusiasts like myself write off the N9 and Lollipop because of that review. It's like they forgot why they loved Android to begin with. We have what may be the first device with a processor and GPU as powerful or more powerful than the latest iPad, and no one wants to touch it. Just look at the Batterylife thread: all you see is rampant comparisons to the iPad. Why is it suddenly so important that an Android device's battery life match an Apple device's? Why not compare its battery life to other Android tablets? Why is the decision regarding which tablet to purchase suddenly only between the N9 and an iPad? What about all the other Android tablets? It's like they don't exist. (And I don't buy that it's the aspect ratio. This obsession with the aspect ratio has set off a false narrative that the N9 is the only true Android alternative to the iPad - as if Samsung and Sony wouldn't rather folks buy their tablets instead of Apple's). This situation is par for the course within the mainstream tech community, but not normally at Android enthusiast sites and XDA.
Anyway...sorry...just had to rant for a bit.
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Click to collapse
Who cares if it's more powerful than an iPad when apps aren't there to fully use it. Sure. In time. Same story. I'm a experienced Android user. Who just got an iPad to test things out. Color me surprised. The sites weren't bashing the N9 to just bash it. They were talking truth. Whether that hurts you or not, it's mostly facts from my experience of going through 3 replacements. Battery life doesn't compare to my Nexus 7. It's more comparable to a phone battery life. Only a fool with no choice would accept that. I WANT to love it. Just like what MKBHD said. Maybe some issues will get worked out. Many are returning it too. Devs. Well. They're in a mix bag and trail of thought now. But it's not worth the high price anymore.

ram130 said:
Who cares if it's more powerful than an iPad when apps aren't there to fully use it. Sure. In time. Same story. I'm a experienced Android user. Who just got an iPad to test things out. Color me surprised. The sites weren't bashing the N9 to just bash it. They were talking truth. Whether that hurts you or not, it's mostly facts from my experience of going through 3 replacements. Battery life doesn't compare to my Nexus 7. It's more comparable to a phone battery life. Only a fool with no choice would accept that. I WANT to love it. Just like what MKBHD said. Maybe some issues will get worked out. Many are returning it too. Devs. Well. They're in a mix bag and trail of thought now. But it's not worth the high price anymore.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Who's "truth" were they talking? Certainly not mine. I have very few of the issues mentioned in the reviews - not that all of the reviews bashed it. I fully acknowledge that it may be your "truth" (and even the reviewers'), but it does not necessarily represent everyone's. I never generalized my experience to the point that it represents anyone's other than my own - nor should you. I understand your frustration, but I don't share it. I may be a "fool", but I guess ignorance is bliss in this case.
To answer your question: I care that it's powerful. Android devices have always been a step behind in this department. I was pretty excited to see that an Android device might actually catch up. I am also willing to take the risk that the apps will catch up. That said, I respect the fact that you may not be (but I'd imagine the apps are the least of your concerns with the various hardware issues).
And why do you assume that I'm offended that you might prefer the iPad? The iPad is a fantastic device. It doesn't surprise me that anyone might prefer it. My "observation" is merely that some discussions at a forums dedicated to the N9 (and Android enthusiast sites) have been uncharacteristically dominated by references and comparisons to the iPad vice other Android tablets.
I apologize if I wasn't clear. I am not concerned with the "bashing", as you put it. Bash away. My point is that the discussions at sites dedicated to Android devices (and this forum) have taken on a different tone than with previous devices, IMHO. Go look at the reviews on the various Android sites and tell me how often per review they directly compare a device to an Apple device. These are Android enthusiast sites. One would naturally expect comparisons between and among Android devices, which is how it's generally been in the past. How is it not noteworthy that one of these sites took it upon itself to dedicate a long point-by-point comparison article to the N9 and Air 2, especially after its review was already littered with comparisons? It takes only a modicum of reason to realize that most people peruse Android enthusiast sites to read about Android devices. Not that Android and Apple enthusiasts are mutually exclusive., but there are scores of mainstream tech sites that provides ample comparisons between devices of all types - not to mention sites dedicated specifically to Apple devices.

ram130 said:
Who cares if it's more powerful than an iPad when apps aren't there to fully use it. Sure. In time. Same story. I'm a experienced Android user. Who just got an iPad to test things out. Color me surprised. The sites weren't bashing the N9 to just bash it. They were talking truth. Whether that hurts you or not, it's mostly facts from my experience of going through 3 replacements. Battery life doesn't compare to my Nexus 7. It's more comparable to a phone battery life. Only a fool with no choice would accept that. I WANT to love it. Just like what MKBHD said. Maybe some issues will get worked out. Many are returning it too. Devs. Well. They're in a mix bag and trail of thought now. But it's not worth the high price anymore.
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Click to collapse
What site is bashing the Nexus 9, none I read.
The reviews I read do not give it glowing reviews but do not bash it either.
Here is an example of a review,
http://www.engadget.com/products/htc/nexus/9/
As far as battery life,
I am a fool.....
The average for battery life is 8 out 10, lots of fools I guess.
The Nexus 9 is not the Nexus 7 or iPad, I wish people stop comparing two unrelated products.

It took awhile for the 2013 N7 to get ANY development, and even longer for the N10. There just isn't a huge market for Android tablets.

cor_mann said:
Who's "truth" were they talking? Certainly not mine. I have very few of the issues mentioned in the reviews - not that all of the reviews bashed it. I fully acknowledge that it may be your "truth" (and even the reviewers'), but it does not necessarily represent everyone's. I never generalized my experience to the point that it represents anyone's other than my own - nor should you. I understand your frustration, but I don't share it. I may be a "fool", but I guess ignorance is bliss in this case.
To answer your question: I care that it's powerful. Android devices have always been a step behind in this department. I was pretty excited to see that an Android device might actually catch up. I am also willing to take the risk that the apps will catch up. That said, I respect the fact that you may not be (but I'd imagine the apps are the least of your concerns with the various hardware issues).
And why do you assume that I'm offended that you might prefer the iPad? The iPad is a fantastic device. It doesn't surprise me that anyone might prefer it. My "observation" is merely that some discussions at a forums dedicated to the N9 (and Android enthusiast sites) have been uncharacteristically dominated by references and comparisons to the iPad vice other Android tablets.
I apologize if I wasn't clear. I am not concerned with the "bashing", as you put it. Bash away. My point is that the discussions at sites dedicated to Android devices (and this forum) have taken on a different tone than with previous devices, IMHO. Go look at the reviews on the various Android sites and tell me how often per review they directly compare a device to an Apple device. These are Android enthusiast sites. One would naturally expect comparisons between and among Android devices, which is how it's generally been in the past. How is it not noteworthy that one of these sites took it upon itself to dedicate a long point-by-point comparison article to the N9 and Air 2, especially after its review was already littered with comparisons? It takes only a modicum of reason to realize that most people peruse Android enthusiast sites to read about Android devices. Not that Android and Apple enthusiasts are mutually exclusive., but there are scores of mainstream tech sites that provides ample comparisons between devices of all types - not to mention sites dedicated specifically to Apple devices.
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Click to collapse
Great points. I did. Didn't meant it has completely saying it's bad. So I take back my choice of words. Thanks. I'm hopeful the Android tablet will rule. I've read the reviews too. Even so it will help push tablet apps. But I'm patient. Just wish Google took more attention to detail.
AstroDigital said:
What site is bashing the Nexus 9, none I read.
The reviews I read do not give it glowing reviews but do not bash it either.
Here is an example of a review,
http://www.engadget.com/products/htc/nexus/9/
As far as battery life,
I am a fool.....
The average for battery life is 8 out 10, lots of fools I guess.
The Nexus 9 is not the Nexus 7 or iPad, I wish people stop comparing two unrelated products.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well If I got that I'd be good. But I don't use my tablet for video.

I too have been surprised with the lack of development on this device. I understand it is a new architecture, being 64 bit, but how about a stock rooted rom?
That is usually the first thing to come out, but I guess we don't have a developer with the device to be able to cook up a stock, rooted rom? What we need to do is get together and donate a device to @scrosler. He is a beast at busting out stock roms for the N7 within minutes it seems!

well, let me throw in a few feelings on this
you can go look at rootzwiki, hahaha a joke, they almost dont exist and barely have any news , let alone devs anymore. when is the last time you say a news blog point to rootz.
its finals time for school, i personally will be taking my calculus final in a few hours, so i dont have time to dive into my N9's new update.
the N9 is a new device, and google is releasing a new AOSP build almost weekly, go have a look at slim roms gerrit , and you will see the amount of work they have been doing for the source. (thought not the n9 yet)
there are way to many posts here of complaints, and statistically thats what happens, people are more likely to complain and post negative things, and not so much positive if its working as expected. i have a very nicely working model, and have no reason to RMA it because the buttons are flush. with no screen bleed or overheating issues.
i also dont feel the need to whine and complain about every little thing like im entitled to perfection . (damn kids today) We have come a long way in devices since my first hand held computer (which still works) the tandy pc-8. and now i have devices which were only a scifi prop a mere 10 years ago.
the new version of the OS, its changes to ART, and core linux behaviour, are causing some devs to to have to dig into new programming books, and alot more source code than had remained the same base for so many years. so i already knew not to expect drastic and fast changes to the newer builds.
it will happen, but its only been a month since i received my device, and hell, the protective cases are not even here yet. ( i found development for the n7 did not get going heavily for at least 2 months after release.
as for attitude on this site, it will happen when one nerd tries to outnerd another, feeling like everyone should already be up to snuff on how to use a editor to edit their settings.db, thats not reality, every single person here was a noob at one time or another, and got help from someone to learn their skill, maybe posters will try to remember that. if you dont have a question, or an answer, think about the reason you are posting, if its to bash someone asking why they cant get a fastboot command to work, help them. we have all left a ";" out at the end of our code at one time or another.
chainfire has been one hell of a bum busting dev, and everyone should toss a few beer/coffee bucks in his direction. i feel he kickstarted the n9's life.

What ever it is, I joined the nexus 9 family. I will be getting the tablet this weekend.

ram130 said:
Great points. I did. Didn't meant it has completely saying it's bad. So I take back my choice of words. Thanks. I'm hopeful the Android tablet will rule. I've read the reviews too. Even so it will help push tablet apps. But I'm patient. Just wish Google took more attention to detail.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I apologize for sounding snarky. I don't want to minimize your frustrations. I can see that you're an android enthusiast (I probably would have given up on finding a quality unit well before you do/did). In many ways, your willingness to share your criticisms may help push Google to address some of the glaring issues with Android and the N9's hardware. I shouldn't have referenced the batterylife thread, because I don't want people to think that it's only their comments that have led to my rant. It's a combination of things.
This probably sounds silly, but I like to think of us android enthusiasts as the people who habitually root for the underdog. We look for virtues (humbleness, etc) in the teams that get completely punished by the opposition. I'm a Redskins fan (sorry...very American reference), so I feel this oh-too-keenly. I know this sounds silly since Google is a multi-billion dollar company, but in the world of tech, Android devices are still perceived as inferior to Apple devices. In other words, they are the underdog.
I get that we shell out hard-earned money for these devices so we deserve to be taken care of. But I feel like it's the intangibles that Android brings to the table - even at its worst - that attract me (customization, more openness, freedom, etc.). I feel like the Android community shares this feeling. I can come to these sites and read/discuss Android devices without the inevitable "just buy an Apple [insert device here]" refrain. I go to Apple sites to read about Apple (or the mainstream tech sites). For me, Android is not about the "perfect" phone or tablet. It's about the process of making it better, which naturally relies on help from people who are much more skilled and knowledgeable than myself. I don't frequent Apple forums much, but I cannot imagine they have the same feeling of community that Android users have. Our developers spend their precious time making people's lives - whom they don't know from Adam - a little bit better at virtually no cost to us - much like Linux and other open-source devs do. Where else in our lives does that happen.
Rightly or wrongly, I feel like the brouhaha caused by some Android sites' uncharacteristic iPad-like expectations for the N9 have directly or indirectly weakened the community response to the N9. I don't want to see people simply give up on the N9 because some Android reviewers implied that it's just better to get an iPad.

mrshades812 said:
I too have been surprised with the lack of development on this device. I understand it is a new architecture, being 64 bit, but how about a stock rooted rom?
That is usually the first thing to come out, but I guess we don't have a developer with the device to be able to cook up a stock, rooted rom? What we need to do is get together and donate a device to @scrosler. He is a beast at busting out stock roms for the N7 within minutes it seems!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It would only take 5 minutes but what's the point? You're on the stock ROM, if you want to flash something you already have recovery, literally you just download this and flash it. Rooted stock ROM. With a nexus you always have googles images to flash. If you have recovery rooting them is only a flash away.
I'm not being smart, I'm seriously asking is that something people actually want?

cor_mann said:
I apologize for sounding snarky. I don't want to minimize your frustrations. I can see that you're an android enthusiast (I probably would have given up on finding a quality unit well before you do/did). In many ways, your willingness to share your criticisms may help push Google to address some of the glaring issues with Android and the N9's hardware. I shouldn't have referenced the batterylife thread, because I don't want people to think that it's only their comments that have led to my rant. It's a combination of things.
This probably sounds silly, but I like to think of us android enthusiasts as the people who habitually root for the underdog. We look for virtues (humbleness, etc) in the teams that get completely punished by the opposition. I'm a Redskins fan (sorry...very American reference), so I feel this oh-too-keenly. I know this sounds silly since Google is a multi-billion dollar company, but in the world of tech, Android devices are still perceived as inferior to Apple devices. In other words, they are the underdog.
I get that we shell out hard-earned money for these devices so we deserve to be taken care of. But I feel like it's the intangibles that Android brings to the table - even at its worst - that attract me (customization, more openness, freedom, etc.). I feel like the Android community shares this feeling. I can come to these sites and read/discuss Android devices without the inevitable "just buy an Apple [insert device here]" refrain. I go to Apple sites to read about Apple (or the mainstream tech sites). For me, Android is not about the "perfect" phone or tablet. It's about the process of making it better, which naturally relies on help from people who are much more skilled and knowledgeable than myself. I don't frequent Apple forums much, but I cannot imagine they have the same feeling of community that Android users have. Our developers spend their precious time making people's lives - whom they don't know from Adam - a little bit better at virtually no cost to us - much like Linux and other open-source devs do. Where else in our lives does that happen.
Rightly or wrongly, I feel like the brouhaha caused by some Android sites' uncharacteristic iPad-like expectations for the N9 have directly or indirectly weakened the community response to the N9. I don't want to see people simply give up on the N9 because some Android reviewers implied that it's just better to get an iPad.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mate, I've read all you've said, and I have to say that I agree with you all the way. You really hit the nail on it's head. When I got my first Android it was the HTC Wildfire, horrible device, but when I heard about what rooting was and what it could do I got exited! There was a possibility to make it better.. This feeling continued through my Desire S and One X. But when I got the Nexus 5, it sort of halted. I got an amazing device without much hazzle and now on the OnePlus One I'm running stock rooted.. The excitement is gone.. But now we have the opportunity once again. A device which leaves much to be improved and optimized, just like the old days. I, for one, am really looking forward to see this beast reach its full potential and I'm enjoying the ride to get there
Smashed down on the mighty Nexus 9

The key issue is that the tablet market is saturated now... Tablets are actually on a downswing currently (even with iPads, etc.). With the recent introduction and trend towards larger phones, the lines become further blurred.
I think the slow adoption of the N9 is not only impacted by this downswing, but also add in the price point it's coming in at compared to the various competing tablets. Add in the wildly varying reviews (though most of them are fairly consistent in that lollipop is great, the hardware is sufficient, but most are disappointed in one aspect or another)... I'm not surprised at the low adoption rate to-date with the tablet. MKBHDs review echoes my issues perfectly... Software is great... Hardware is ok but it needs to drop in price...
I've returned my unit "for now" until the price drops and, hopefully in the meantime, the nitpicks on the hardware can be addressed with the build quality.
I expect once the LTE version comes out we will see a price drop and hopefully the QC is in check by then .... At that point I'll be in the market again to buy it (hopefully for $100-$200 cheaper).
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

di11igaf said:
It would only take 5 minutes but what's the point? You're on the stock ROM, if you want to flash something you already have recovery, literally you just download this and flash it. Rooted stock ROM. With a nexus you always have googles images to flash. If you have recovery rooting them is only a flash away.
I'm not being smart, I'm seriously asking is that something people actually want?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you missed the point. The topic was community, so I was commenting on the lack of even a stock rom.
Smashed on the N9

jsgiv said:
I think the slow adoption of the N9 is not only impacted by this downswing, but also add in the price point it's coming in at compared to the various competing tablets. Add in the wildly varying reviews (though most of them are fairly consistent in that lollipop is great, the hardware is sufficient, but most are disappointed in one aspect or another)... I'm not surprised at the low adoption rate to-date with the tablet. MKBHDs review echoes my issues perfectly... Software is great... Hardware is ok but it needs to drop in price...
I've returned my unit "for now" until the price drops and, hopefully in the meantime, the nitpicks on the hardware can be addressed with the build quality.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I believe the pricepoint is what drove some of the comparison with the ipads. I, like many of you, have waited a long time for the 9 to come out. I even set aside the cash to pick up the 32 gig even though it was a lot higher priced than i thought it was going to be. I wanted this to be my first tablet.
I had purchased a 1st Gen 7 for my wife for Christmas two years ago and she loves that thing. Once I started seeing the negative reviews and posts about the poor build quality I reconsidered.
So on Black Friday I jumped on the $199 8.4 tab pro deal. Great little tablet for the money But I sure wanted to join the Nexus Club. Maybe later when the price comes down and they get some of the bugs worked out it will be worth the premium.

Pixel Prediction (6 months from now 10/5/16-4/5/17)

I've been talking a lot with my friends about this who are also Android users. I know there are a lot of opinions about the Pixel, so I thought it would be interesting to make a thread to check back on in 6 months from launch to see how things panned out. At the end of the day either Google is correct with this phone, or the community was right in predicting the change. I figured 6 months is enough time to get the phone in the pipeline and where a price cut would be susceptible if one were to occur.
Here's my analysis:
Existing problems:
1. Pixel phone contains basic vanilla Android at the same price as an iPhone and Samsung with feature filled software skins.
2. Apple and Samsung both have established their product in the marketplace, unlike the Pixel. Samsung didn't get any real traction until the Galaxy S3/Note 3.........three generations in.....this is Pixel's first.
3. The biggest competitor (Galaxy/Note 7), both have expandable SD card storage and water resistance that the Pixel does not.
4. Only exclusive on Verizon, which allows only a small population to get it subsidized. (Both Apple/Samsung sell contract subsidized phones for BOTH Verizon and Sprint which creates a lower barrier to entry).
5. Google assistant which is one of its selling points, I don't see a huge immediate use for it unlike a better camera, or water resistance. There is a variant of this type of technology already out. It's called "SIRI" for iPhone and "S-Voice" for Samsung. It's been out for years and I don't know anyone personally who uses either on a daily basis. (or at all)
6. There are no "frills" to this phone. I keep saying that, however; the typically buyer of iPhone/Samsung do not know anything about the internals or the hardware. (How else would Apple get people to buy $3,000 laptops ? It's not the hardware they are buying). The phone is just too plain for mainstream appeal. Next time you see someone with a Samsung ask them if their bootloader is locked........then ask it in Japanese....you'll get the same response.
Pixel is taking aim at "mainstream", yet offering very little in terms of "frills" that mainstream typically likes yet charging flagship pricing. There is already a significant conflict in this strategy.
It's obvious based on the chart I uploaded Google's competency is not hardware unlike Apple......which would explain a lot. While I love Android, it's a small revenue of their overall revenue. Most likely, they are looking to diversify from just search and add to the bottom line as well from the smartphone market. It's very bold to try and compete against Apple that gets 53% of their overall revenue from iPhone alone, when Google has very little experience in that area (hardware).
Prediction:
In 6 months (or less), the Pixel phones will get price cuts to the same price as the 5x ($379) and 6p ($499). The phone won't be a flop and Google will keep it, but the price point was set too high. I don't think the phone is a total bust, but I do think with 99% certainty that this was priced too high to be competitive........Google just doesn't know it yet
Google right now can't even manage a proper messenger app (messenger, hangouts, allo.....seriously which one am I supposed to use Google ?), canceled Project Ara, canceled Google Glass, etc.......there's a lack of direction with the company needless to say.
Edit: Google search for Pixel compared to iPhone and Galaxy S7 (I left out Note 7 due to exploding battery interest) which has fallen off a cliff since the Pixel debut.

great post =) I agree with you

Well written. Very clear.
For me there is also a design problem.
The material design is too white and hurts my eyes especially in the evening. A dark theme is needed. So I am using Aquamail and not Gmail and apps with a dark theme. And black layers.
Maybe the Chinese will produce a better and cheaper phone. Who knows.
Maybe G is heading to a closed system ?

Or it could be the repeat of Google Pixel C with temporary "developer" discounts before the price goes back to list price. They don't seem to be too bothered about shifting stock.
Sent from my Nexus 6 using XDA-Developers mobile app

According to The Verge websites interview with Google's hardware chief, Google knows the first generation Pixel phone won't sale in volumes and expects to gain little market share, apparently there is long term strategy behind the scenes with the release of these first Pixel phones. Here's a quote from that article.
"We certainly arent going to have enormous volumes out of this product. This is very first innings for us." Googles metric of success for Pixel wont be whether it picks up significant market share, but whether it can garner customer satisfaction and form retail and carrier partnerships that Google can leverage for years to come."
http://www.theverge.com/a/google-pixel-phone-new-hardware-interview-2016
As for the cancellation of Google Glass and other Google hardware, that was done by the recently hired Google hardware chief so he could bring all the hardware teams together to focus on same objectives, so it appears Google now has a sense of direction, thanks to this new hardware chief aka ex-Motorola president. Here's a quote from another interview, just for reference.
"When Osterloh, 44, came on board in mid-April, he brought Google hardware groups into one division, shuttering projects he didn't see contributing to Googles future. Now the engineers and designers from Google Glass, Chromecast and Pixel all work together. Keeping them separate, he says, made it hard to drive toward the goal of portfolio strategy and focus."
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...-google-s-first-real-threat-to-apple-s-iphone

In order to gain customer satisfaction they need to have customers, and the feedback everywhere I look is that they've already caused dissatisfaction with their prices and therefore won't have a solid customer base - especially after alienating so many Nexus owners with the ludicrous six-week Nougat delay and the dropping of the Nexus line.

dahawthorne said:
In order to gain customer satisfaction they need to have customers, and the feedback everywhere I look is that they've already caused dissatisfaction with their prices and therefore won't have a solid customer base - especially after alienating so many Nexus owners with the ludicrous six-week Nougat delay and the dropping of the Nexus line.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As much as I love the Nexus and it's contributing users, they probably don't make up enough market share for Google to care. Most Nexus owners are phone enthusiasts, who make up a very small percentage of the smartphone market.
Some Pixel phones are already sold out in the Google Store, so people are buying them. It remains to be seen if it will be enough for their "Customer Satisfaction" goal but from their interview, they don't seem to feel the need to sell a whole lot in order to make that goal, at least initially.

mikeprius said:
I've been talking a lot with my friends about this who are also Android users. I know there are a lot of opinions about the Pixel, so I thought it would be interesting to make a thread to check back on in 6 months from launch to see how things panned out. At the end of the day either Google is correct with this phone, or the community was right in predicting the change. I figured 6 months is enough time to get the phone in the pipeline and where a price cut would be susceptible if one were to occur.
Here's my analysis:
Existing problems:
1. Pixel phone contains basic vanilla Android at the same price as an iPhone and Samsung with feature filled software skins.
This is called Bloat to me basic vanilla Android is a huge plus
2. Apple and Samsung both have established their product in the marketplace, unlike the Pixel. Samsung didn't get any real traction until the Galaxy S3/Note 3.........three generations in.....this is Pixel's first.
Even though Samsungs are some of the most bloated locked down devices and iPhones are not Android devices Google with Pixel branding I just a continuation. I do agree more Samsung Devices and iPhones will be sold but so what?
3. The biggest competitor (Galaxy/Note 7), both have expandable SD card storage and water resistance that the Pixel does not.
My new phone will have 128Gig do I really need more, unlimited cloud storage for photos will help too
4. Only exclusive on Verizon, which allows only a small population to get it subsidized. (Both Apple/Samsung sell contract subsidized phones for BOTH Verizon and Sprint which creates a lower barrier to entry).
I am not American but they do sell SIM unlocked devices in the States do they not?
5. Google assistant which is one of its selling points, I don't see a huge immediate use for it unlike a better camera, or water resistance. There is a variant of this type of technology already out. It's called "SIRI" for iPhone and "S-Voice" for Samsung. It's been out for years and I don't know anyone personally who uses either on a daily basis. (or at all)
I owned 16 smartphones since the iPhone and not once did lack of water resistance bother me and I had zero devices with water damage. Google Assist can not see me using it often but only time will tell
6. There are no "frills" to this phone. I keep saying that, however; the typically buyer of iPhone/Samsung do not know anything about the internals or the hardware. (How else would Apple get people to buy $3,000 laptops ? It's not the hardware they are buying). The phone is just too plain for mainstream appeal. Next time you see someone with a Samsung ask them if their bootloader is locked........then ask it in Japanese....you'll get the same response.
First to get Android updates, first device with Qualcomm 821, first with official daydream support, and yes at least some say this will have the best camera
Pixel is taking aim at "mainstream", yet offering very little in terms of "frills" that mainstream typically likes yet charging flagship pricing. There is already a significant conflict in this strategy.
Why do you think they are gearing this for the mainstream, they never had in the past?
It's obvious based on the chart I uploaded Google's competency is not hardware unlike Apple......which would explain a lot. While I love Android, it's a small revenue of their overall revenue. Most likely, they are looking to diversify from just search and add to the bottom line as well from the smartphone market. It's very bold to try and compete against Apple that gets 53% of their overall revenue from iPhone alone, when Google has very little experience in that area (hardware).
Google builds nothing they are contracting HTC to build the Pixel, Pixel XL. Nobody expects them every to sell more of the current Pixel phones than Apple sells
Prediction:
In 6 months (or less), the Pixel phones will get price cuts to the same price as the 5x ($379) and 6p ($499). The phone won't be a flop and Google will keep it, but the price point was set too high. I don't think the phone is a total bust, but I do think with 99% certainty that this was priced too high to be competitive........Google just doesn't know it yet
Google right now can't even manage a proper messenger app (messenger, hangouts, allo.....seriously which one am I supposed to use Google ?), canceled Project Ara, canceled Google Glass, etc.......there's a lack of direction with the company needless to say.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Who knows about the price I do know the 32 Gig Nexus 6p was selling for $600 Canadian (I do not know what American pay) and in 6 months I can not see Google pricing the Pixel XL 32Gig lower. Sell more than Samsung and Apple no not believes this will every happen but different people by Samsung and Apple. People that generally never visit XDA and they are happy with whatever bloat Samsung and Apple gives them.

Maybe they are trying to create the equivalent of surface devices like Microsoft? I have no clue how that helps either of the companies. Maybe the idea is to just create a premium brand Google running Android even if every device sold loses money. Kind of like what Acura has to do with the NSX. It's an attempt to push the brand into a premium device discussion.
However, I definitely don't see anything that premium in the device. I don't see anything that premium in an iPhone either except that the lemmings have decided it is a premium product so like the unreliable Mercedes Benz cars out there, they retain resale value. At some point it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.
To achieve a perception of being a premium product like Apple products, Google probably has to fire most of the tech guys running the hardware division and hire a real marketing team. The Oct 4 presentation was astonishingly lackluster. Same amount of glamour as a BlackBerry presentation. Bunch of geeks thinking just because they have a search engine cash cow, they must know everything else there is to know about the business world.
Honestly what the Nexus/pixel and allo/duo/messenger/hangouts mess should teach us is that these guys like going back to the drawing board way too often. This is not a mature company and will abandon loyal customers without hesitation if someone decides that's the cool thing to do. Project Fi customers, you will be next.
So in a nutshell don't over analyze Google, it's just a bunch of high school kids doing experiments in a Chemistry Lab. At some point there will be purple foam and a few explosions.
And there is no point hitching yourself to this wagon. Don't buy anything Google tries to market as premium. They don't have the discipline to maintain a message. Eventually everything they sell will be priced like a commodity.
Sent from my Nexus 6 using XDA-Developers mobile app

might want to modify the thread title's date. It's currently "10/5/16-4/5/16"; I'm pretty sure you meant "10/5/16-4/5/17"

First device with SD821? Not.

Google/Nexus phones were successful, because they targeted a specific niche that no one else did; devs/enthusiasts/folks who wanted to tinker and modify their phones completely and without restrictions.
Pixel phones have NOTHING that is "niche" driven; they are just like Apple/Samsung/who ever, with nothing really unique(S Pen, etc) to attract anyone really..
Sure, they will get the curious newbie/Iphone/Samsung lovers, but, those folks already have alot of choices, and those choices have alot more "features" that those folks want.
So, I cant fathom how this device will be anything more than a novelty, especially at that ridiculous price point..

mikeprius said:
I've been talking a lot with my friends about this who are also Android users. I know there are a lot of opinions about the Pixel, so I thought it would be interesting to make a thread to check back on in 6 months from launch to see how things panned out. At the end of the day either Google is correct with this phone, or the community was right in predicting the change. I figured 6 months is enough time to get the phone in the pipeline and where a price cut would be susceptible if one were to occur.
Yadda, yadda, yadda............................................[emoji23]
.
Google right now can't even manage a proper messenger app (messenger, hangouts, allo.....seriously which one am I supposed to use Google ?), canceled Project Ara, canceled Google Glass, etc.......there's a lack of direction with the company needless to say.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great post! Lots of info there. [SARCASM] You might have a bit too much time on your hands though. [emoji1] [/SARCASM]
khanam said:
Honestly what the Nexus/pixel and allo/duo/messenger/hangouts mess should teach us is that these guys like going back to the drawing board way too often. This is not a mature company and will abandon loyal customers without hesitation if someone decides that's the cool thing to do. Project Fi customers, you will be next.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
IMO, Nexus/Pixel is not a mess, they are simply trying to gain market share other than the developer/techie community. I would bet that they will end up partnering with all of the major carriers to sell the phones subsidized, Verizon just got the nod for release day because it is the biggest. The pixels will also come down in price from the play store as well.
As far as the Duo/allo/hangouts/messenger thing, from what I've been reading they are trying to market hangouts to the enterprise side of the mobile market. I never really used it for anything other than video calls now and again. Duo is much more convenient for video calls, although I wish they would have just incorporated it into the dialer kind of how FaceTime is on iphone. I don't know what to think about allo. It doesn't handle sms, and it doesn't do anything that other already established apps do as good or better.
I'm just going to wait it out to see if the price comes down, or if my carrier gets it. If not, oh well, I will explore other options at that time. After all I'm still paying for my N6 through January...
Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

mikeprius said:
1. Pixel phone contains basic vanilla Android at the same price as an iPhone and Samsung with feature filled software skins.
2. Apple and Samsung both have established their product in the marketplace, unlike the Pixel. Samsung didn't get any real traction until the Galaxy S3/Note 3.........three generations in.....this is Pixel's first.
3. The biggest competitor (Galaxy/Note 7), both have expandable SD card storage and water resistance that the Pixel does not.
4. Only exclusive on Verizon, which allows only a small population to get it subsidized. (Both Apple/Samsung sell contract subsidized phones for BOTH Verizon and Sprint which creates a lower barrier to entry).
5. Google assistant which is one of its selling points, I don't see a huge immediate use for it unlike a better camera, or water resistance. There is a variant of this type of technology already out. It's called "SIRI" for iPhone and "S-Voice" for Samsung. It's been out for years and I don't know anyone personally who uses either on a daily basis. (or at all)
6. There are no "frills" to this phone. I keep saying that, however; the typically buyer of iPhone/Samsung do not know anything about the internals or the hardware. (How else would Apple get people to buy $3,000 laptops ? It's not the hardware they are buying). The phone is just too plain for mainstream appeal. Next time you see someone with a Samsung ask them if their bootloader is locked........then ask it in Japanese....you'll get the same response.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. If you asked a user what was the difference between Touchwiz and vanilla Android, until Material Design the only thing they said was: Samsung looks nicer. Because Holo was ugly. But Material design changed that, so now basic Android is not ugly anymore. As for the gimmicks, a casual user will only use a fraction of the TouchWiz "features", and a vanilla Android user will not be missing any of those "features".
Pixel ha nice round icons, and a praised camera. You can consider it sold.
2. From the above linked interview this is the first step to establish Pixel as a product for the masses and not just for the techies. The are planning to sell 3-4 million units (good look with that). But even that's at least one order or magnitude below of the quantity Samsung and Apple sell. Google never bragged how many units they sold, you can't find official statistics, but it's obviously "not a damn lot", that's for sure.
3. And the iPhone does not have an SD card slot. The Galaxy S6 was a mistake for Samsung in every aspect, because they took away three things in one step: SD card, removable battery and custom roms. So there was a huge uproar, much bigger if they only played with these feature one at a time.
I too prefer an SD card, coming from Samsung phones, it was given, yet after one year using a mere 32GB phone I still live. So it's not a make/brake condition for me when buying a new phone.
5. It's a gimmick like Samsung's air gestures, keep awake when reading, knock twice on top to scroll to the top. You use it once then forget it. I bet for a week or two everybody will play with the assistant then forget it.
Compared to that Google Now cards are very useful, I use the Time to work, Time home card every day, and it helps avoiding the construction that kills the city, and to decide when it's totally beyond reason to leave home.
6. There are no real "frills". There are only those that some marketing think tank succeeds in convincing you that you actually need it. The camera is a frill enough to sell it, so it's the speed. Having the hardware from the start Google could optimize it a little to be better than the other manufacturers.

It is a mess. I compare it to the failures Apple had right after the Lisa, nonsense sales prediction with a exorbitant price point.
They can partner with as many carriers as they want over there (America, the world isn't just that) or try to subsidise phones.
Worldwide subsidisation of phones is impractical. And outside America the prices are even worse.

Highway 55 said:
IMO, Nexus/Pixel is not a mess, they are simply trying to gain market share other than the developer/techie community. I would bet that they will end up partnering with all of the major carriers to sell the phones subsidized, Verizon just got the nod for release day because it is the biggest. The pixels will also come down in price from the play store as well.
As far as the Duo/allo/hangouts/messenger thing, from what I've been reading they are trying to market hangouts to the enterprise side of the mobile market. I never really used it for anything other than video calls now and again. Duo is much more convenient for video calls, although I wish they would have just incorporated it into the dialer kind of how FaceTime is on iphone. I don't know what to think about allo. It doesn't handle sms, and it doesn't do anything that other already established apps do as good or better.
I'm just going to wait it out to see if the price comes down, or if my carrier gets it. If not, oh well, I will explore other options at that time. After all I'm still paying for my N6 through January...
Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
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I am not sure why they abandoned hangouts for consumers - it was quite an all encompassing product for most of us between everything it handled - it just needed some tightening and polish but we finally had SMS, Voicemail, Video calling, IM, IP Calling all in 1. Now i have too many apps - when i instead want to simplify my life. No one likes to have something they were finding useful suddenly lose features - that just reeks of big brotherism - someone else deciding whats best for me instead of considering my own inputs.
On the pixel/nexus thing though - the way they should have done it is kept the nexus line alive and added a pixel or 2 phones with slightly more premium features but at a slightly higher price, then next generation a little higher price and so on.
That would have given all of us time to adjust and experiment. You do not just increase prices and abandon the nexus line without warning. That feels like them deciding what is best for us - like apple does. Give consumers choice, price products appropriately and allow them to cross bridges on price, features etc.
This abandoning nexus and replacing it with a non vanilla high priced pixel move is too sudden. That is why it feels like they do not listen to consumers and instead impose their vision on us. Who would like that? I chose to abandon iOS to have freedom - but the more they take those away from me - the more i look at Google and say, well this is not what i wanted. Locked bootloaders - does that not go against the very foundation of Android?
Another point - this AI push through Allo/Assistant is slowly going to convert you into a data contribution toward an engine - do you actually need to pay extra to lose your privacy - should that not happen in such a way that you get a discount on other products (i.e. your phone for example) which act as the conduit for your revealing your choices to the central database/skynet?

unfortunately, the mopes who sit in the production/sales meeting, only care about looking good to their bosses/making their bosses look good, and raise profits for shareholders..
They talk about how much Apple/Samsung charge for their phones, and sell 20 times more than Google does, so they figure, hey, lets just copy their business model, and we will look like heros.
Customers needs/wants get pushed to the back of the list, and market share/greater profits are all that matters..
And yeah, it sucks that we can now pay more for another "me too" phone, and, at the same time, surrender even more of our privacy, while paying through the nose for another Apple Clone..
No thanks, never a Pixel phone for me, at ANY price..

mixedguy said:
As much as I love the Nexus and it's contributing users, they probably don't make up enough market share for Google to care. Most Nexus owners are phone enthusiasts, who make up a very small percentage of the smartphone market.
Some Pixel phones are already sold out in the Google Store, so people are buying them. It remains to be seen if it will be enough for their "Customer Satisfaction" goal but from their interview, they don't seem to feel the need to sell a whole lot in order to make that goal, at least initially.
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Nexus no..it's a small segment. Android as a whole for Google is a very small amount of their revenue. Clearly the release of the Pixel is designed to make it a more considerable source of revenue for Google. They are not very diversified at the moment. All their money is in search.
AstroDigital said:
Who knows about the price I do know the 32 Gig Nexus 6p was selling for $600 Canadian (I do not know what American pay) and in 6 months I can not see Google pricing the Pixel XL 32Gig lower. Sell more than Samsung and Apple no not believes this will every happen but different people by Samsung and Apple. People that generally never visit XDA and they are happy with whatever bloat Samsung and Apple gives them.
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The United States there are 4 primary carriers (there are others, but the big 4 are AT&T, Sprint, Verizon, and T-Mobile). Before all 4 carriers did this, but 2 still do and that is offer 24 month contracts to be signed for a subsidized phone. So for example a $800 iPhone can be bought at Verizon or Sprint for $200-$300 depending on the model, current or past, etc, etc. That's how iPhone was able to be made available in mass. There's no way the people in the US could buy these phones outright at their current cost in large populations. It's outside many people's affordability.
All these products full price are out of the affordability for nearly everyone, so either they use the contract or use payments. With exclusive Verizon, everyone will do payments or buy outright (smaller population)......many people still use the contract that I know, taking this off the table for one carrier reduces accessibility.
Also, 2 of the 4 carriers in the US are CMDA technology not GSM so unlocked phones are limited. My carrier is CMDA so I cannot buy Xperia, One plus 3, or Axon 7. If I could, I'd have bought the One plus 3. Instead I'm stuck with the Nexus or some "whitelisted" device.

istperson said:
1. If you asked a user what was the difference between Touchwiz and vanilla Android, until Material Design the only thing they said was: Samsung looks nicer. Because Holo was ugly. But Material design changed that, so now basic Android is not ugly anymore. As for the gimmicks, a casual user will only use a fraction of the TouchWiz "features", and a vanilla Android user will not be missing any of those "features".
Pixel ha nice round icons, and a praised camera. You can consider it sold.
2. From the above linked interview this is the first step to establish Pixel as a product for the masses and not just for the techies. The are planning to sell 3-4 million units (good look with that). But even that's at least one order or magnitude below of the quantity Samsung and Apple sell. Google never bragged how many units they sold, you can't find official statistics, but it's obviously "not a damn lot", that's for sure.
3. And the iPhone does not have an SD card slot. The Galaxy S6 was a mistake for Samsung in every aspect, because they took away three things in one step: SD card, removable battery and custom roms. So there was a huge uproar, much bigger if they only played with these feature one at a time.
I too prefer an SD card, coming from Samsung phones, it was given, yet after one year using a mere 32GB phone I still live. So it's not a make/brake condition for me when buying a new phone.
5. It's a gimmick like Samsung's air gestures, keep awake when reading, knock twice on top to scroll to the top. You use it once then forget it. I bet for a week or two everybody will play with the assistant then forget it.
Compared to that Google Now cards are very useful, I use the Time to work, Time home card every day, and it helps avoiding the construction that kills the city, and to decide when it's totally beyond reason to leave home.
6. There are no real "frills". There are only those that some marketing think tank succeeds in convincing you that you actually need it. The camera is a frill enough to sell it, so it's the speed. Having the hardware from the start Google could optimize it a little to be better than the other manufacturers.
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While I can laugh at most people who become enamored with gimmicks, that's what sells. The stupid air gestures, and whatever toggles Samsung has that people flock to. They have no idea what chip is in their phone. Same goes for iPhone.
Everything else you are saying are your own personal preferences, not what mainstream people want. Majority of society is easily distracted by shiny gimmicks, engages in herd mentality buying decisions, and want instant gratification........these people are not "astute buyers" by any means, but they are the people who open their wallets and purses to buy these products.............it's pathetic but that's how the market is. Samsung and iPhone meet all these "needs". Pixel does not.

mixedguy said:
According to The Verge websites interview with Google's hardware chief, Google knows the first generation Pixel phone won't sale in volumes and expects to gain little market share, apparently there is long term strategy behind the scenes with the release of these first Pixel phones. Here's a quote from that article.
"We certainly arent going to have enormous volumes out of this product. This is very first innings for us." Googles metric of success for Pixel wont be whether it picks up significant market share, but whether it can garner customer satisfaction and form retail and carrier partnerships that Google can leverage for years to come."
http://www.theverge.com/a/google-pixel-phone-new-hardware-interview-2016
As for the cancellation of Google Glass and other Google hardware, that was done by the recently hired Google hardware chief so he could bring all the hardware teams together to focus on same objectives, so it appears Google now has a sense of direction, thanks to this new hardware chief aka ex-Motorola president. Here's a quote from another interview, just for reference.
"When Osterloh, 44, came on board in mid-April, he brought Google hardware groups into one division, shuttering projects he didn't see contributing to Googles future. Now the engineers and designers from Google Glass, Chromecast and Pixel all work together. Keeping them separate, he says, made it hard to drive toward the goal of portfolio strategy and focus."
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...-google-s-first-real-threat-to-apple-s-iphone
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The Google glass and other hardware that they were experimenting with does make sense b/c it was untested and they were looking at pioneering a new potential product. There's no existing prior benchmark. That has more leeway including cancellation which I understand. I think long-term it is a good idea Google has more control over the hardware and not just software because there has been too much fragmentation across the board in devices and with other Google products.
With that said, smartphones have been out for many years now, with the saturation really beginning to take hold in 2009 and forward (where more and more people were rapidly buying smartphones). There's enough data they could have made a more intelligent analysis on how to price the product (which I suspect is way too high).

Pixel 2 XL bad press and forum experience

So I returned the 64GB XL that I originally ordered due to me not adding the preferred care and seeing all the quality control and screen issues. I reordered a 128 GB device with preferred care and cancelled. All the bad press, all the threads and posts about quality control issues, this being a "travesty" and other comments. I cancelled and reordered 5 times and I finally followed through with the purchase. But only on one condition. I wasn't going to look at articles, forums, videos or any sort of press regarding the device at all for a week. I had read about all the issues and was still weary about it when I received the device on the 26th. I set it up and the first thing I did was look for this blue tint. I have a VERY slight tint at extreme angles that I do not view of device from but it did not bother me a bit and did not interfere with my experience. So what did I do next? I used my phone as my daily driver and in the same manner that I did my $8+. Since the 26th, I have had no issues, and I can honestly say that I could not be more thrilled with this device. It is exactly what I was looking for. My first vanilla Android experience and it is amazing. So with that being said, let's get to the question. Has anyone else avoided the negative press and forums to get their own experience? Has anyone else come to the and conclusion that I have? I can't say that the phone is perfect. I can't say that every device is made equal. But I can say that if you are on the fence with your purchase, just buy it. Experience the device for yourself, form your own opinion. Keep in mind what you have learned from other's experiences, but really form your own opinion with your own experience and come share with us. If you don't like it, just return it. Thanks for the read everyone! If you like your device great! If it wasn't for you, I hope you find the device you're looking for. Have a great one everybody!

I ordered on day one and my phone was very blue at even a slight angle. I returned it and ordered another and I am very happy with it. the processor is a beast. battery and camera are the best there is. Software and features are way ahead of others and will stay there. You need to try it. Don't read or buy into the negative hype. Try it. If you don't like it returning the device is easy and costs nothing.

@MacTheRipperr
I didn't let it get me down. I pre-ordered on the 6th, got it the 28th, never returned it, and never cared about the press.
I don't care about random people's opinions, and I have no idea why everyone does. I figured once I got it, i would see if I like it, if not, I would return it and move on.
The media is and always will be full of ****, the same with the vast majority of people sadly. I still hear people run in their mouth about this device in telegram chats and online that never have nor will hold an xl2, at that rate, why would anyone take anything they say at face value? It's sad that people fall to peer pressure, and can't be big enough to make a decision for themselves, they have to follow the norm.
Anyways, my device like most others shifts colors at an angle, and it doesn't bother me. I always have and will use black themes while I'm on an oled device. You can't get this rich of black color which makes everything else pop on lcd.
Coming from a 6p, this phone is light years faster than it was, and the battery life I've had on stock with the stock kernel, has put all other devices I've had to shame. I couldn't be happier with the xl2

This phone ticked all the boxes I want/need and after the trade in plus the rebate from T-mobile I'd be stupid not to jump on it. While waiting all the complaints about the screen came in so I was curious to see what it would look like when I got it. Opened the box and turned the screen on, tilted it and said...."that's it???". I've been loving it since day one. Best phone I've ever had.

If anything the negative press had lowered my expectations some, so when I finally got my phone I was absolutely blown away by how great it is. I couldn't say if I had not read anything bad about the phone, whether or not my response would have been the same, but all I can say is that this is the best phone I have ever used (going from Nexus 5, to 6, to 6P, to 2XL)

I find it humorous that in advance of the iPhone X, Apple puts out a paper saying that burn-in and blue tint upon tilting device are normal for oled screens, and not a defect. I wonder if all the media sources that blasted the Pixel 2 XL for being a "mediocre" device because of those screen issues will be as hard on Apple as they were on Google?

I've read the articles and kept up with stuff, but I really just don't give a sh__, to be frank. Is there a blue tint at angle? Yup. Does it bother me? Nope. Is there screen burn in/retention? Don't know. (I have not seen anything and don't care about trying it out to see.) This phone is so freaking phenomenal, I can't believe that people steer clear over some bad press given by a bunch of YouTube reviewers that nit-pick everything with every phone ever made.
To prove my point on how little the everyday user cares, I showed 2 buddies of mine my 2 XL the other night. They both just recently got the iPhone 8+ and they've had Apple devices going back to the iPhone 6. Both of them played with my 2 XL for at least 15 minutes. Neither of them mentioned anything about the screen other than they said they loved the lack of huge bezels. Both commented on how blazingly fast it performed. They also loved how it listened for music and displayed what was playing automatically.
I'm happy with my 2 XL. If by some chance Google does some sort of recall, etc. I may go ahead and do that, but as of yet, I see no reason to RMA my phone.

Dang, OP. Nailed my experience, but in a different manner: Ordered during the event and got mine on the 20th. Also came from an S8+.
Have since stopped reading comments on popular Android tech sites due to the sheer vileness of them. Maybe it was present before and I just never noticed, but the comments sections are a total sh_tshow. I am embarrassed to be a part of a community that can treat each other so poorly.
I imagine someone new to the community going on to these sites and just being absolutely stunned by how petty and rude we must seem.
It's not just Pixel articles either; Samsung, HTC, LG.... It's unavoidable.
I like my S8+ and my 2 XL. I liked my V20. My son loves his V30 (and before that, his HTC 10). Why can't we seem to accept that they're all great devices? Why do we have to be so vile to each other?
Sorry... That went longer than I had planned...
/rant end

It's hands-on for me! Media suxes!!

MacTheRipperr said:
So I returned the 64GB XL that I originally ordered due to me not adding the preferred care and seeing all the quality control and screen issues. I reordered a 128 GB device with preferred care and cancelled. All the bad press, all the threads and posts about quality control issues, this being a "travesty" and other comments. I cancelled and reordered 5 times and I finally followed through with the purchase. But only on one condition. I wasn't going to look at articles, forums, videos or any sort of press regarding the device at all for a week. I had read about all the issues and was still weary about it when I received the device on the 26th. I set it up and the first thing I did was look for this blue tint. I have a VERY slight tint at extreme angles that I do not view of device from but it did not bother me a bit and did not interfere with my experience. So what did I do next? I used my phone as my daily driver and in the same manner that I did my $8+. Since the 26th, I have had no issues, and I can honestly say that I could not be more thrilled with this device. It is exactly what I was looking for. My first vanilla Android experience and it is amazing. So with that being said, let's get to the question. Has anyone else avoided the negative press and forums to get their own experience? Has anyone else come to the and conclusion that I have? I can't say that the phone is perfect. I can't say that every device is made equal. But I can say that if you are on the fence with your purchase, just buy it. Experience the device for yourself, form your own opinion. Keep in mind what you have learned from other's experiences, but really form your own opinion with your own experience and come share with us. If you don't like it, just return it. Thanks for the read everyone! If you like your device great! If it wasn't for you, I hope you find the device you're looking for. Have a great one everybody!
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I preordered it and kept it.
Ive had a Galaxy Nexus Nexus 5 Nexus 6p and now the Pixel XL 2 I can tell you... You will never get a "perfect" phone from Google you just wont. But you dont get this phone because its perfect. You get it because you dont have to wait for updates from the carrier that will never come. You dont have to worry about the bootloader being locked. And you can pretty much count on the most developer support.
Everyone of the phones listed above had an "issue" blown way out of proportion.
Galaxy Nexus was battery life even leading to Verizon offering a extended battery
Nexus 5 had a screen issue where anything after the 1st batch had a yellow tint to the display. (I was lucky to get one of the good ones but then 3 months later my phone decided to not DL or send MMS at all no matter what i did. I had to RMA it and got a yellow tint phone. Oh and battery life issues.
Nexus 6p had screen issues and battery issues where the phone would shut down once the battery reached anywhere from 15% to 50% Oh there was also a software bug on only this phone where the phone would refuse to switch to LTE and the only way to make it do this was to go into the secret *#*4636*#*# and toggle the LTE radio. This was not fixed for 2 security updates
See you will never get a "perfect phone" from Google. Just like a lot of their products start out pretty ****ty and get better through several updates.

Well, I most definitely want to thank you guys for your feedback and being honest without the hostility. It's good to see that I am not alone in my experience. Thanks for replying with tact. We can only lead our fellow enthusiast by example. Thanks again for your responses.

I've had a horrible experience through all of this, I'm also a new member here, although I've been a lurker for years. BUT I pre-ordered, kept the order and received a P2XL that is blue straight on and gets worse at any angle. I RMA'd my device, new one will be here this friday/saturday. Thing is after a week I really love this phone and willing to try at least one more as it seems there is or was a quality issue but most here that have RMA'd are reporting they've gotten a better device back. I agree what another member posted about the rhetoric and the way people are treating each other but that's the interwebs these days. Also seems a bunch of people here received great devices to begin with (ANOTHER REASON TO ORDER ONE AND TRY IT YOURSELF) but unfortunately some of them just assume everyone's device is the exact same as theirs and some of them even deny there could be an issue saying "we see these things differently" and we should "just shut up or get a refund". Don't listen to them, don't really take much weight in what anyone says (including me) about their personal experience until you've had the exact same experience with the same device to relate to their issues posted. We're here to share our experiences with these devices with each other but for every 1 P2XL user here there are probably at least 4 or 5 if not more that are ecstatic to own these phones from Google. Remember most people who have issues go onto forums and websites to see if others are experiencing the same issues. So it becomes a breeding ground for every issue ever found on "x" device within "x" days of being released. Like what's been said here before, it's not just here, all manufacturers have issues with their devices and for me IMO the P2XL is what I want/need in a phone. Hopefully you'll order one up and give it a shot, you're truly missing out on an amazing experience with an amazing device.

You know things are desperate when people have to make "feel good" threads.
As for the validity of media or what else has been said here, this entire thread is pure conjecture and speculation made against others who disagree.
Im also not sure who this is directed at. The people who dont like/want this phone wont be here.
Neither will the people who returned them.
As for the point of the thread.
If you buy a device that costs a grand, might aswell demand no ISSUES.
Neither apples pathetic response to possible issues with the screen nor Google's "we are looking into it" imply a whole lot respect for the consumer or confindence for their devices.
You can like your device, you can claim its perfect, beautiful, whatever. But for this price, nothing short of perfection(as much as it can be achieved) should be demanded.
If im paying a grand, i dont want to be bothered by RMAs or other BS.
If they have QC issues, they are free to perhaps ship some jobs back to Europe/America. Im sure they have enough money to pay decent wages for people to QC their devices or produce them here.
If not, they should not expect mercy from the consumer or press, and yes this includes apple too
What a pathetic age we live in.

shadowcore said:
.
If you buy a device that costs a grand, might aswell demand no ISSUES.
.
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You do know you're paying for more than hardware right? You don't really think you're getting a minimum of 3 years OS updates, a minimum of 3 years of monthly security updates, support help right on the device, and all that unlimited storage for nothing do ya.

shadowcore said:
If you buy a device that costs a grand, might aswell demand no ISSUES.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why not demand pink unicorns as well, since we're apparently asking for the impossible?
No device is without "issues". Not a one.
If you won't pay a grand for any non-perfect device, and no such device exists, you are basically claiming no device is worth a grand.
Welp...okay. it's a perfectly valid opinion. Thanks for sharing.

PhoenixPath said:
Why not demand pink unicorns as well, since we're apparently asking for the impossible?
No device is without "issues". Not a one.
If you won't pay a grand for any non-perfect device, and no such device exists, you are basically claiming no device is worth a grand.
Welp...okay. it's a perfectly valid opinion. Thanks for sharing.
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Do you believe any of the current issues would be present, if they had QC that actually was managed properly?
It cant be because of technology that the device costs this much, about a grand, in 2017.
Surely they can afford proper QC at an asking price of 1 grand.
Im not sure proper QC is like pink unicorns, but i guess people should just shut up.
A proper premium tier QC is pink unicorns. Im having the timw of my life now.
---------- Post added at 05:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:28 PM ----------
AndrasLOHF said:
You do know you're paying for more than hardware right? You don't really think you're getting a minimum of 3 years OS updates, a minimum of 3 years of monthly security updates, support help right on the device, and all that unlimited storage for nothing do ya.
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Thats true, i wish only they provided a black skin/overlay for android.
Its 2017 and only custom roms offer amoled friendly UI.
Im not sureni value android updates when they offer no enhancements i need.

shadowcore said:
Do you believe any of the current issues would be present, if they had QC that actually was managed properly?
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Click to collapse
QC doesn't stop issues from reaching the public. It limits them.
A certain number of bad devices will invariably get out in the market. This is unavoidable.
If you are trying to claim that it is avoidable, that any company could release a device and the public would not see a single failure, please - do tell; what fantastical device is it?
If you are trying to claim that *all* Pixel 2 XL devices are bad, well, you're entitled to your opinion, but if that is indeed the case, your opinion is not at all relevant to us.

PhoenixPath said:
QC doesn't stop issues from reaching the public. It limits them.
A certain number of bad devices will invariably get out in the market. This is unavoidable.
If you are trying to claim that it is avoidable, that any company could release a device and the public would not see a single failure, please - do tell; what fantastical device is it?
If you are trying to claim that *all* Pixel 2 XL devices are bad, well, you're entitled to your opinion, but if that is indeed the case, your opinion is not at all relevant to us.
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Pray tell, do you really believe issues such as blue tint or burn in wouldnt be caught by proper QC?
These issues are so obvious, even non-tech savy people can notice them.
And no, i didnt claim qc prevents all bad apples, but thw moat obvious ones. Way to strawman my point there.
All google needed to do, when noticing issues in QC , is hold off on the release date.
You can probably imagine how much i enjoyed last years fiasco with exploding batteries with samsung.
If anything, that was the epitome and parody of the flagship smartphone industry.
Imagine buying a porsche and getting one that had paint issues or an expensive mercedes with discolored glass.
If i wanted to gamble and try my luck, i would get an Oppo, not a pixel or samsung.

I agree with both you guys lol. IMO the issue is when testing Google from day 1 just looked past the blue tint and other issues thinking "This is the way it has to be" "it's a trade off" and software updates will fix it or it's just supposed to be like that. Hence the quality issues, if you tell your QC dept that it's supposed to look like that then they'll unfortunately let them all leave the factory like that. Probably why there's 50 shades of blue and no direct reasoning or answer from anyone as to why there's such a variance between the exact same devices produced on the same date even. BTW shadowcore is onto something I've been previously saying, yea there's shortcomings with any new device but it shouldn't be this bad all over the map with these things for the price they charge. And then attempted sweeping under the rug of it all, "working as intended" just to rub ya the wrong way after all that money spent whether you got 5 discounts or paid full retail. PRINCIPLE. This is top tier device I know it's been done before here but would you buy a brand new BMW/AUDI/LEXUS/MERCEDES and be just fine with creaking plastic crappy interior you sit in every time you drive? We need to interact with this screen every day all day for some people.

shadowcore said:
....
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Is their QC sub-par? Do they actually have more defective units than other vendors?
Is there anything other than the initial media coverage, now little more than background noise, that implies Google's devices see more defects in the market than others?
Or, as you just admitted in the last post, are you just super happy about any and all failures and maybe that is what is driving your fervor?
I mean, even if that's what it is, I get it. These companies make billions - watching them trip and fall, even if it's only in our perception, can be somewhat cathartic - is it really any more than that, though?