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Hi !
Does anyone actually know if android can be installed / flashed on current devices ? Or it's only for certain devices that come with it preinstalled ?
Please don't post things like: "i would love it if it did" or "omg, android is great"...
I'm looking for an answer from someone who actually knows or someone who knows exactly how this stuff works...
Thanks
PS: Menneisyys, i hope you'll post something
I don't think that you'll be getting your answer any time soon as nobody has seen the thing yet.
But i would speculate that as HTC is one of the partners, it might be possible. HTC probably wont reinvent their phones again for the android.
Not a programmer...
but i was listening to leo laport yesterday and it seems that ggls world domination strategy would be all including. so it seems very likely that they would allow some version of it for use on other phones.
http://techguylabs.com/radio/ShowNotes/Show403#toc5
At this point, since there there is no release yet and nobody has/can play with it, it's probably hard to say. However, knowing Google, there is a good possibility they will come out with an app that allows you to use your current phone (speculation).
I heard that Android based on some Java-sintacsys - maybe it is good for us?
Well, the SDK has been released, get it here: http://code.google.com/android/. A demo video is available on the page to show you what it's capable of thus far--looks promising. I'm no coder, but I wish someone would develop this for current HTC devices. As an incentive, Google launched an Android Developer Challenge (http://code.google.com/android/adc.html), where developers of "innovative, useful apps" can win up to $275,000.
leetsauce said:
Well, the SDK has been released, get it here: http://code.google.com/android/. A demo video is available on the page to show you what it's capable of thus far--looks promising. I'm no coder, but I wish someone would develop this for current HTC devices. As an incentive, Google launched an Android Developer Challenge (http://code.google.com/android/adc.html), where developers of "innovative, useful apps" can win up to $275,000.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I grabbed the SDk and got a basic hello world up and running. From what the video said and what I can glean from various sites. The Android OS is designed to run on existing hardware. I would imagine that includes HTC machines. Its a complete OS though not an app so I would imagine you have to blow away WM6 and put android on in order to take advantage of its functionality. The actual coding appears to be extremely easy.
I can see google or the community releasing a "shell" of Android.
The more people with it the more money for them. If you watched the video they are really trying to push the location based services from GPS, cell towers, IP address... can anyone say more cash for ads.
I wouldn't mind having it on WM and its open source so there a good chance we will see it.
Alpine would be perfect for Android
Alpine would be a perfect phone if recycled with android !!
Good processor, lots of mem and a big screen for touch sensasions!!
Is it a dream or could that become reality?
Is Android compatible with HTC Touch-style hardware or does it require the numberpad?
There is a linux-2.6.23-android-m3-rc20.tar.gz kernel file on the android google code project site, there is also ADB utility - Android Debug Bridge (comes with SDK), it has an option of flashing a device (over usb) or an emulator (which is also included in the package)...the question is how to compile that kernel and make it run on our HTCs, and what kindof boot loader does it require? Maybe guys from Xanadux know better
It's also interesting how JAVA is being used after becoming open source, it appears that android is mostly independent from the JAVA API, the only relevance I found was only basic stuff like java.util, java.io and etc (included in the android.jar)...
i think that android will work on htc devices because pretty much they are the ones that will be releasing the first devices preloaded with android and i think that white device was made from htc. I see a potential here so i ask some one to make a thread on porting android to any or a specific device. good luck and may the force be with you.
ps. i hope its a htc wizard
I'd say we'd be waiting to see the HDK come out before we can put it on our own devices, can't wait though.
A dream
The Android SDK includes an emulator, see here http://www.ohadev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15
Quote: "It seems that the main binary is emulator; this includes a qemu-0.8.2, which runs (in system mode) the ARM kernel image at lib/images/kernel-qemu.
Two more images are mounted from lib/images : the system.img (which appears to be the rootfs, and userdata.img, which gets replicated (and mounted from there) at $HOME/.android/userdata.img."
This guy (http://mamaich.uni.cc/fr_pocket.htm) got Qemu compiled for ARM, buggy/crashing, no visible update for several years, see also here http://www.pocketpcmag.com/blogs/in...e_to_running_ms_dos_8_12&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1
Question: Anyone have any more recent news/experiences about Qemu on ARM/HTC?
So, theoretically one could try running the Android Kernel image from the SDK emulator on Qemu on PocketPC.
Even if it works (highly unlikely), this megasandwich AndroidImage->Qemu->PocketPC would probably be fantastically slow, with dodgy/absent I/O support.
Real solution is to wait for a modifyable Kernel which can run natively on the HTC ARM processor.
Did not someone from google mentioned at the day of the release that android will run on any ARM9 based device?
dirac said:
Real solution is to wait for a modifyable Kernel which can run natively on the HTC ARM processor.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is no such thing as "HTC ARM processor". All major ARM-based CPUs
are supported by Linux, it's the device drivers for external hardware that are
often missing because of the missing documentation.
cr2 said:
There is no such thing as "HTC ARM processor". All major ARM-based CPUs
are supported by Linux, it's the device drivers for external hardware that are
often missing because of the missing documentation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Im sure that HTC will release drivers for all their devices since they are partners in the Open Handset Alliance..
prodinho said:
Im sure that HTC will release drivers for all their devices since they are partners in the Open Handset Alliance..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There are some doubts that the (future) drivers will be released as free software, and not some binary blobs like nvidia, ati and m-systems did it in the past.
Binary linux kernel drivers are evil
http://code.google.com/android/
incase anyones not familiar with android, check that site out.
im not sure why there isnt more development or developers that are going after this in terms of getting it working on all devices? im currently using it on my vogue and its amazing. definately better UI in terms of EVERYTHING. its open source, so i think developers should be all over this! has so much potential its kind of ridiculous
vogue thread
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=382265
its working about 80% now thanks to amazing developer martin.
the browser and everything (overall UI) are so much better and smoother than windows mobile! and being that its open source with google ENCOURAGING development of apps and themes and skins and whatnot, i think this is the next best thing to happen to ppc's.
THIS is the actual iphone killer.
just some samples
on a vogue (very smooth)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0z9bWiAT44
just a demo of the browser (mine is actually a little smoother than this)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2FpDDEVWtk
the reason im posting this here is because i was the first one to post in this section with manilla2d (when udk first released it), asking whether we can get this on other devices, and look what happened with that. if we can get the amazing developers from here to work on this like they worked on m2d, then wow this will be amazing!
Yeah, even I'm suprised at the low level of excitement of porting this to all devices. Hoping for some real development . Btw, those videos are pretty impressive.
Akshay
Yeah... I'm a little surprised too.
I have a Vogue now, so I'm OK, but I'd love to see somebody pick this project up for the Touch Pro. It seems to be very similar to the G1, so the porting would be a lot more complete than the porting to the Vogue.
Hopefully somebody with the skills (read: not me) will undertake this.
it'll pick up. i say in 6 months to a year people will snap out of the apple app dev craze. but from a dev point of view, apple is where its at right now. the amount of money you could make is a driver by all means.
htc will also be a key part in this. when they start to release better looking hardware, perhaps something on par with the diamond....you'll see a user increase. and user increase translate into dev interest. so just hang in there....i think you'll get what you want soon.
A ppc that works only on 80 Percent ? And no additional Software, no outlook syncronisation? Thats at the moment somthing for freaks or people with a second device
If there would be a 100 Percent Android i would install it, believe me, because i´m not very happy with windows anymore.
So i think we must wait and hope.
My next Device in half a year will be hopefully the Touch HD with Android rolleyes
because it makes no sense to port androud to a phone that is not 3G with GPS.
the only advantage of the g phone that I saw was the service. 3G and free GPS! i'm like, how much for the puppy in the window?
I honestly think that porting it to my wizard would be senseless.
without the service the gphone is just a phone wothout service.
S.V.I said:
because it makes no sense to port androud to a phone that is not 3G with GPS.
the only advantage of the g phone that I saw was the service. 3G and free GPS! i'm like, how much for the puppy in the window?
I honestly think that porting it to my wizard would be senseless.
without the service the gphone is just a phone wothout service.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Of course it is always pointless. We do it because we can (and because we don't want to do anything while at work)
(and much like bluemetal, we are all tired of the same old look and functionality in our WM devices). Then again, it can always be worse....
we could all have iphones
Anyways, I am looking forward to someone porting this to the Blue Angel.
The bigest stumbling block for me is lack of Exchange support. GPS isn't really necessary with the cell tower triangulation available. The accuracy is getting better. It will never be as tight as GPS but close is good enough for me. I can do with out 3G (I wish I had it) I don't enjoy the experience with the little screen. It's like looking at the ocean through a porthole. A 5 inch screen with much better resolution would be great. I use it for quick info but surfing is not fun.
I do like the idea of going linux on the phone. It would be that much closer to having a truely mobile desktop. We wouldn't have to install resource hogging shells that ride on top of an already bloated today screen to get better customization.
I think the biggest problem overall though is the hardware needed will put a lot of older equipment like my little wizard out to pasture. I don't have the funds to rush out an purchase a new phone. And yes I think all the bugs will need to be shaken out for a while before I take the plunge. Maybe by the 2nd or third generation of Android things will be a little less "bleeding edge". It all looks great now but I rely on my phone too much to gamble on an untried system.
To be completely honest, I too am suprised by the lack of progress.
This is a complete replacement for Windows Mobile: something we've all only dreamed about up until now. It will have a wicked Dev community around it soon enough.
There were a hell of a lot of efforts to get the Beta running. But now... nothing?
*so confused
The worst part is, it'd be gorgeous on my LG KS20, but I doubt we'll see it anytime soon: no one loves us KS20 owners. Guess you were all just jealous of our drivers.
bluemetalaxe said:
A ppc that works only on 80 Percent ? And no additional Software, no outlook syncronisation? Thats at the moment somthing for freaks or people with a second device
If there would be a 100 Percent Android i would install it, believe me, because i´m not very happy with windows anymore.
So i think we must wait and hope.
My next Device in half a year will be hopefully the Touch HD with Android rolleyes
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i don't know if you read my whole post, but i never said "hey everyone lets run something 80% finished on our ppcs."
waiting and hoping isnt going to do anything, thats why i started this thread. to get more attention instead of sitting and waiting for something we arent sure is going to ever happen.
im glad a lot of other people are on the same page as me, wondering why there is barely any development for this. thanks for the support guys
lets get some devs in here to weigh in on this!
Well, there's a number of quite simple reasons...
- Porting Android to another device isn't as simple as "Hey, it's Open Source, you just have to compile and install". First of all, you'd need to find a working cross compiler for ARM in the first place (one using Windows' API, like those used for PPC apps isn't much help). Then you'd need to write drivers for usually undocumented hardware with this cross compiler or in ARM assembler (reusing existing WM drivers, like in cooked ROMs, wouldn't work in Linux). Finally, you need to find a way to flash that system to your PPC (that's a bit more work than a patched/cooked variation of an already existing WM ROM), and so on. That's work for the kind of freaks who would do their taxes binary in mind...
- Writing apps for a system almost nobody own so far isn't that attractive. It's even less attractive if the potential developer doesn't own one - the real experience is always a bit different to an emulator, and usually would like some use for himself, too (what good is an mobile app for you if you'd need a laptop with emulator to use it? ). So far, there's only one official Android device out there, and aside from the fact it's still a bit "first try, for developers only" (no Outlook sync, ugly design, ...), you only get it in very few parts of the world or in overpriced eBay auctions. Inofficial ports with reduced functionality and maybe buggy or slow "beta" drivers aren't that great, too...
- While the Android API is quite close to common Java style, it's still something completely new, which requires some time to get into the framework's basic style, the available functions, the loopholes and small tricks, etc. With WM, the gap to common Windows (desktop) programming is way smaller, and I guess it's similar with the iPhone and Mac programming.
Or, in other words: Give Andoid some time to grow up. IMHO, G1 and the few existing ports are a playground for hackers and early adopters, so they can get startet with fixing (security holes, missing functionality, ...). Then, in some months, more devices with a "hacker improved" Android will be published, and when developers buy those, they also will start writing apps if they are missing something.
you'd think more people would be starting to port.. because god is that g1 terrible, you have to have sharpened pencils for fingers to type on that flush keyboard)
Mort said:
Well, there's a number of quite simple reasons...
- Porting Android to another device isn't as simple as "Hey, it's Open Source, you just have to compile and install". First of all, you'd need to find a working cross compiler for ARM in the first place (one using Windows' API, like those used for PPC apps isn't much help). Then you'd need to write drivers for usually undocumented hardware with this cross compiler or in ARM assembler (reusing existing WM drivers, like in cooked ROMs, wouldn't work in Linux). Finally, you need to find a way to flash that system to your PPC (that's a bit more work than a patched/cooked variation of an already existing WM ROM), and so on. That's work for the kind of freaks who would do their taxes binary in mind...
- Writing apps for a system almost nobody own so far isn't that attractive. It's even less attractive if the potential developer doesn't own one - the real experience is always a bit different to an emulator, and usually would like some use for himself, too (what good is an mobile app for you if you'd need a laptop with emulator to use it? ). So far, there's only one official Android device out there, and aside from the fact it's still a bit "first try, for developers only" (no Outlook sync, ugly design, ...), you only get it in very few parts of the world or in overpriced eBay auctions. Inofficial ports with reduced functionality and maybe buggy or slow "beta" drivers aren't that great, too...
- While the Android API is quite close to common Java style, it's still something completely new, which requires some time to get into the framework's basic style, the available functions, the loopholes and small tricks, etc. With WM, the gap to common Windows (desktop) programming is way smaller, and I guess it's similar with the iPhone and Mac programming.
Or, in other words: Give Andoid some time to grow up. IMHO, G1 and the few existing ports are a playground for hackers and early adopters, so they can get startet with fixing (security holes, missing functionality, ...). Then, in some months, more devices with a "hacker improved" Android will be published, and when developers buy those, they also will start writing apps if they are missing something.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ok now these reasons make a lot of sense. im just surprised that not as many people are trying to get it started so they can get started on fixing, like you said. but ok, all of your other reasons make complete sense. im sure the future releases of android will only get better.
android just seems like exactly what many of us have been looking for in wm devices, basically, a complete UI replacement endorsed/created by a large company (other than microsoft lol).
jakub_w said:
im just surprised that not as many people are trying to get it started so they can get started on fixing, like you said.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Who knows? AFAIK, the order numbers aren't that bad, and all those reviewers give some feedback, too. I mean, it's only a week since the G1 is available at all, and, as said, it's not very attractive so far. Not everybody wants to spend hundreds of dollars just to provide Google with requests and code changes and T-Mobile and HTC with money...
android just seems like exactly what many of us have been looking for in wm devices, basically, a complete UI replacement endorsed/created by a large company (other than microsoft lol).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think the UI is the really big thing about Android. You can even replace it completely, and I don't know (yet) where the limits / design guides are for applications. I just hope it doesn't get as confusing as Linux on the desktop, where even a Gnome or KDE desktop can be modified so far that it's almost as hard to switch distros as switching from Windows to MacOS...
The important things about Android are more in the basic technology, imho, like
- A stable, timeless system core (*nix is older than me, so "modern" is not quite correct - that goes for MacOS X, too, btw...)
- Seamless integration of connection management and phone functions (opposed to WM, where it still acts like a makeshift patchwork, and with every update less APIs are working...)
- Portable application framework (Java, lots of system APIs)
- Simple application installation (no "is this EXE a PC setup or the PPC executable?", "How the hell do I install a CAB file?", ...)
However, I still wonder how/if Andoid will support direct PC synchronization (for shared files, contacts, appointments, music, ...) and how fast and memory consumptive the required Java VM is... (Well, at least none of the G1 reviews I read complained about that, so it seems to be faster than .NET on WM...)
i was just playing around with android and in the dev tools or api demos theres a section called opengl es. i have a vogue and i tried these, they ran extremely smoothly. isnt this something that everyone has been saying is impossible? (specifically for getting tf3d to run on the vogue) i think this proves that software driven 3d is more than capable of handling tf3d. just a thought.
jakub_w said:
i was just playing around with android and in the dev tools or api demos theres a section called opengl es. i have a vogue and i tried these, they ran extremely smoothly. isnt this something that everyone has been saying is impossible? (specifically for getting tf3d to run on the vogue) i think this proves that software driven 3d is more than capable of handling tf3d. just a thought.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I definitely agree with you on that. Thing is though is that this is a completely different environment with a different set of drivers (and rules) which makes (for example) modifying their parameters to allow for keys normally used for certain functions in WM to be used for something completely different. Also OpenGL (ES) is all that is used on *nix OSes whether or not they run on full or embedded hardware. All that's needed is the driver for the graphics chip. Microsoft wants you to use their proprietary D3D not OpenGL (ES) hence why it was impossible to have OpenGL (ES) before. Also TF3D uses DirectX and not OpenGL ES AFAIK.
Android is great. Only thing I need is a way to get the SDcard image working and a HTC Touch Pro to port Android, Angstrom and/or OpenMoko to, I'd be set.
why would you develop software for an operating system that isn't even fully ported yet?
joel2009 said:
why would you develop software for an operating system that isn't even fully ported yet?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Weeell....
- It's Linux and Open Source (some people wouldn't touch a closed system with a stick...)
- It's nice to be prepared when you get the running system
- There is a device with that OS
- The documentation is way better than Microsoft's
- There's a good chance the API will remain compatible, so it doesn't hurt to start early (opposed to WM, where some basic features can/could only be done with device dependant or inofficial APIs, which were dropped in newer updates...)
Hi all.
Im a c# / windows developer by profession, but work have just donated an unused mac pro for me to try my hand at some android development.
It runs both os x and windows as it's intel based, so before I get started I was wondering if there was a preferred or easier platform to develop android apps on (i.e. is the IDE better on one or the other (eclipse on both I assume), faster compile times, better driver support etc etc) on or are they all much of the same?
Thanks.
I have zero programming experience, but I would say Windows, as it isn't as limited as OSX is. Also, you may want to boot up Ubuntu or another Linux distro on it if you are coding. Their pretty lightweight, and most programs use them.
Well, I have used PC's since DOS 2.1 and Windows 3.x
Finally got a Mac Book Pro about 6 months ago. I can barely stand going back to a Windows PC.
In my opinion, the user interface is more elegant, the OS is more stable and it's just plain fun to use.
You can always run a Windows VM on your Mac too.
I just don't know what your choices are on a Mac for an IDE to use with C#. I use Intellij Idea and Eclipse for my Android development with the edge going to Intellij since Eclipse starting being nasty with me! LOL
You also have Xcode on the Mac for Mac OS development (and you can code for iPhone, iPad, iTouch etc.).
I'm exclusively Mac now and for $350, I got an Asus Eee PC for any windows development I might need. Not the fastest, but cheap and portable. I also use Dropbox to sync my Mac Android programs so I can develop on the Asus too if I go mobile. Works great for me
I hate Xcode with a passion heh.
Anyways this is very coke vs pepsi.
Windows, Mac, or Linux are all fine for Android dev. Seeing as most Android dev work is done in Eclipse the choice you make for OS is a matter of preference.
They are pretty much the same for this case. Devices will connect without needing drivers in OS X.
Neither has a noticeable advantage re: Android dev(ancient office proverb: "Eclipse is equally broken everywhere"). Since you're already a Windows guy, best to stick with what you know. Our shop uses Macs, main reason being most of us are Unix geeks and don't want to spend an hour setting up Ubuntu every time we buy a new system (and we can yell at Apple if it breaks).
maxppp said:
Hi all.
Im a c# / windows developer by profession, but work have just donated an unused mac pro for me to try my hand at some android development.
It runs both os x and windows as it's intel based, so before I get started I was wondering if there was a preferred or easier platform to develop android apps on (i.e. is the IDE better on one or the other (eclipse on both I assume), faster compile times, better driver support etc etc) on or are they all much of the same?
Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know about apps but mac is great for rom development.
Lakers16 said:
They are pretty much the same for this case. Devices will connect without needing drivers in OS X.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
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- Yeah, I was a bit surprised at that, it was a nice touch, especially since I had to install the drivers in Windows like 4x in less than 3mo when it decided to stop recognizing my droid.
Rootstonian said:
Well, I have used PC's since DOS 2.1 and Windows 3.x
Finally got a Mac Book Pro about 6 months ago. I can barely stand going back to a Windows PC.
In my opinion, the user interface is more elegant, the OS is more stable and it's just plain fun to use.
You can always run a Windows VM on your Mac too.
I just don't know what your choices are on a Mac for an IDE to use with C#. I use Intellij Idea and Eclipse for my Android development with the edge going to Intellij since Eclipse starting being nasty with me! LOL
You also have Xcode on the Mac for Mac OS development (and you can code for iPhone, iPad, iTouch etc.).
I'm exclusively Mac now and for $350, I got an Asus Eee PC for any windows development I might need. Not the fastest, but cheap and portable. I also use Dropbox to sync my Mac Android programs so I can develop on the Asus too if I go mobile. Works great for me
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
VM's can be iffy, especially when dealing with USB devices.
Xcode is very nice, one of the best C/C++ IDE's I've used.
You're not going to find that much stuff on C# dev for OS X, as C# is a Win only thing. Sure, the API has been duped and other implementations have been made, but it's a Windows thing. Just like you won't find much stuff on objective-C in Windows.
SwiftLegend said:
I have zero programming experience, but I would say Windows, as it isn't as limited as OSX is. Also, you may want to boot up Ubuntu or another Linux distro on it if you are coding. Their pretty lightweight, and most programs use them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think your zero programming experience lends itself well to your opinion .
Windows is actually one of the worst environments to dev in, if you want C/C++ dev, visual studio is your only option (and it kinda blows), that or GCC via mingW or Cygwin, but both of those are UNIX-based layers.
For android it doesn't really matter because Eclipse will run the same in OS X, Windows, or Linux.
What makes OS X much better for general dev over Windows is that it's BSD based at the core. Any UNIX fork or derivative lends itself very well to development, development was based around UNIX, Windows is a rather new thing. Only reason people dev for it is because it's a monopoly and you basically have to for consumer software.
maxppp said:
Hi all.
Im a c# / windows developer by profession, but work have just donated an unused mac pro for me to try my hand at some android development.
It runs both os x and windows as it's intel based, so before I get started I was wondering if there was a preferred or easier platform to develop android apps on (i.e. is the IDE better on one or the other (eclipse on both I assume), faster compile times, better driver support etc etc) on or are they all much of the same?
Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Eclipse is pretty much your best bet, it uses the native Java compiler, so you're not going to get any faster compile times. As for drivers, OS X won't need them, Windows will, but that's just a simple double click >> next kind of deal. So pick your poison, as Eclipse was written in Java it runs the same on any platform (in theory). The OS X version is slightly different since Apple doesn't use Sun/Oracle Java, but rather they rolled their own Java.
In the end, it's all Eclipse, I've dev'ed for android on both Win7 and OS X 10.6 (latest OS's for both), I see no issues with either.
alostpacket said:
I hate Xcode with a passion heh.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
XCode is an EXTREMELY powerful IDE with amazing integration capabilities...up until 4.0...In 4.0 they decided anybody that's using XCode OBVIOUSLY wants to only develop for their iPlatform (not like anybody develops for OS X, or GP programming, or anything). So save yourself the $5 on XCode 4.0 and get the free 3.X (think it's 3.6). It's much more user friendly. Once you get to know it and use it it becomes quite epic, I can promise you. I jump editors and IDE's like it's my job, so I'm very critical of them, and I've had lots of experience with very many.
alostpacket said:
Anyways this is very coke vs pepsi.
Windows, Mac, or Linux are all fine for Android dev. Seeing as most Android dev work is done in Eclipse the choice you make for OS is a matter of preference.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, since android dev is pretty centric (even though they say it isn't) around eclipse, and eclipse is Java (ie. cross-platform), it's definitely a case of picking your poison, it's the same thing regardless of the direction you choose.
ConstantineXVI said:
Neither has a noticeable advantage re: Android dev(ancient office proverb: "Eclipse is equally broken everywhere"). Since you're already a Windows guy, best to stick with what you know. Our shop uses Macs, main reason being most of us are Unix geeks and don't want to spend an hour setting up Ubuntu every time we buy a new system (and we can yell at Apple if it breaks).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed 100%.
Syndacate said:
XCode is an EXTREMELY powerful IDE with amazing integration capabilities...up until 4.0...In 4.0 they decided anybody that's using XCode OBVIOUSLY wants to only develop for their iPlatform (not like anybody develops for OS X, or GP programming, or anything). So save yourself the $5 on XCode 4.0 and get the free 3.X (think it's 3.6). It's much more user friendly. Once you get to know it and use it it becomes quite epic, I can promise you. I jump editors and IDE's like it's my job, so I'm very critical of them, and I've had lots of experience with very many.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For me Xcode 4 was a relief. I'm forced to use Xcode, because of iOS development and man... I really hate Xcode 3. For me Xcode 4 is still something like IDE from early years of this millennium, but it's much better than Xcode 3. It has tabs, better (but still poor) syntax completion, much cleaner templates and more. Developing in Xcode 4 is reasonably comfortable.
Brut.all said:
For me Xcode 4 was a relief. I'm forced to use Xcode, because of iOS development and man... I really hate Xcode 3. For me Xcode 4 is still something like IDE from early years of this millennium, but it's much better than Xcode 3. It has tabs, better (but still poor) syntax completion, much cleaner templates and more. Developing in Xcode 4 is reasonably comfortable.
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Click to collapse
Well that's the thing. XCode 4 seems very aimed at iOS dev, where 3.X supported iOS dev, amongst OS X dev, amongst just, generally algorithmic C/C++ programming dev. I haven't personally used XCode 4, so I can't determine how much better or worse they made it, but I've heard from multiple sources it blows.
I'm against their philosophy of making people pay $5 for this one, though, that's retarded, all the past ones have been free. There's still a OS X software development community...don't quite they think they recognize that..
EDIT:
I haven't used it in like 4 or 6 months (not often I'm dev'ing on my MBP), so I can't comment much about the suggestions/auto-complete, etc., though I'm sure it's tweakable.
Syndacate said:
I'm against their philosophy of making people pay $5 for this one, though, that's retarded, all the past ones have been free. There's still a OS X software development community...don't quite they think they recognize that..
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I think OS X and iOS developers don't have to pay for Xcode 4 - it's free for them.
Brut.all said:
I think OS X and iOS developers don't have to pay for Xcode 4 - it's free for them.
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Click to collapse
No, it's only free if you're part of the iOS development program, for which you have to pay the $99 / yr. You can develop for free for OS X, and to get XCode in the past you need to at least be part of the OS X developer program, but membership is free.
They still have that membership, for people who want to develop for OS X, that's how you stay up to date with XCode and other OS X development tools. Though the free version isn't enough for XCode 4.0.
So basically what you have is:
- Free membership for OS X development (in the past gave access to XCode and other development tools)
- iOS membership to post apps to app store, $99/yr.
The former used to get every version of XCode for free, membership is free. They still offer XCode 3.X on the site for them. They (or anybody else) will have to pay $5 for XCode 4.0.
The latter gets XCode 4.0 for free - it's retarded.
-----
In short, they tailored XCode 4.0 to iOS devs, and basically said "we don't give a ****" about standard OS X devs. I doubt they're going to continue working on 3.X for regular OS X developers, they're probably only going to work on XCode 4.0+, therefore you must pay to stay up to date now. It's realistically complete bull****.
More related toward Unix/Linux, the better
I would seriously recommend OS X only because it is Unix based. When working, the environment will be very close to Linux as opposed to Windows which is not even close.
This would definitely help when making custom roms or kernels as the compilation processes, techniques, and scripts outlined on most xda forum posts are linux based.
Of course, if you are simply creating android apps, then it doesnt matter which one you pick.
For me, the more resemblance to Linux, the better
Yup, I love linux
"I have zero programming experience, but I would say Windows, as it isn't as limited as OSX is. Also, you may want to boot up Ubuntu or another Linux distro on it if you are coding. Their pretty lightweight, and most programs use them."
Where do I even start from that esoteric comment of yours
JQwerty91 said:
"I have zero programming experience, but I would say Windows, as it isn't as limited as OSX is. Also, you may want to boot up Ubuntu or another Linux distro on it if you are coding. Their pretty lightweight, and most programs use them."
Where do I even start from that esoteric comment of yours
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Click to collapse
Skip over it to avoid possibly flame war .
demoneyes905 said:
I would seriously recommend OS X only because it is Unix based. When working, the environment will be very close to Linux as opposed to Windows which is not even close.
This would definitely help when making custom roms or kernels as the compilation processes, techniques, and scripts outlined on most xda forum posts are linux based.
Of course, if you are simply creating android apps, then it doesnt matter which one you pick.
For me, the more resemblance to Linux, the better
Yup, I love linux
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why not just run Linux then, why push OS X. The scripts outlined on most of XDA are BASH scripts. It just so happens that the BASH shell is default in both OS X and most flavors of Linux. That's as far as that goes, though.
OS X having a modified BSD core (Darwin) (which was an official Berkely fork) makes OS X closer to the original UNIX than Linux is.
If the compilations are done using C, then yeah, a *nix environment would probably be best, as scripts, makefiles, compilers, etc. lend themselves well to the BASH shell, which is the default terminal interface in both OS X and Linux. Though as you said, if it's just apps, it doesn't really make a difference. I can't quite comment on the ROMs and Kernels aspect of it for sure because I haven't dabbled around in there.
Assuming the guy doesn't have a Mac or a hackintosh, it'd probably be best to install an easy-to-use Linux distribution such as Ubuntu or Fedora (The former has more support for...everything).
When I had my old Macbook I tri-booted it. It ran OS X so I had a solid, BSD-based OS to do my daily work in, Windows for when I wanted to play a game or use some Windows only program, and Ubuntu, for when I wanted OSS power, easy access to the GTK, Linux only programs, dev'ing, etc.
Wish I could tri-boot my new Macbook, but something they changed in the EFI when they switched to the unibodies is making that not very possible for me . Guess I'll have to resort to Wubi then, lmao.
Been a coder for a long time, since Vax mainframe days using a 220 terminal. Any how although Visual Studio is the god of all IDEs for android I prefer Ubuntu 10.4. I have a 64 bit system and installation was as easy as falling of a log. With the work's 64 bit windows system had a few problems, have to use the 32bit java sdk. But once running they are just the same only that Linux has a better shell for an old school hacker like me.
So in short, as someone else said, as it's mainly using Eclipse it's the same feel what ever the client OS.
I'm a Linux fan but was once a Windows die hard, Ubuntu changed that.
RichardUK said:
Been a coder for a long time, since Vax mainframe days using a 220 terminal. Any how although Visual Studio is the god of all IDEs for android I prefer Ubuntu 10.4. I have a 64 bit system and installation was as easy as falling of a log. With the work's 64 bit windows system had a few problems, have to use the 32bit java sdk. But once running they are just the same only that Linux has a better shell for an old school hacker like me.
So in short, as someone else said, as it's mainly using Eclipse it's the same feel what ever the client OS.
I'm a Linux fan but was once a Windows die hard, Ubuntu changed that.
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Click to collapse
I agree for the most part. Only reason I don't use Linux full time (I used to) is because I like some programs better on Windows (ie. Notepad++, WinSCP) in which there's just NO good alternatives in Linux for. I mean yeah, GEdit or Kate come decently close to NP++, but they're not as good, IMO. Also, I haven't found any program for Linux that can handle live save listening on opened files (ie. you save and it uploads)..not quite sure why.
What I would disagree with is that Visual Studio is the "god of all IDEs" - it's simply not. I'm pretty sure they completely yanked intellisense for anything but C#, the intellisense sucks to begin with (that of other IDEs such as Eclipse, XCode, or QTCreator I have found to be much better), and just about every feature fails in comparison to other alternatives.
For cross platform Java, both Eclipse and Netbeans trump pretty much all. Netbeans is another OSS Java IDE (written in Java) which is pretty epic. For C/C++ I typically use XCode (if I'm on OS X) or QTCreator.
I guess if XCode wasn't around and I had to write in C/C++, QTCreator would be my favorite. Symbol matching rocks, it scales well to large projects, code completion and that jazz is all pretty epic. In general it's cross platform, open source, fast as ****, and runs well - I love it.
Even though it's "tailored" to QT (just has all the headers and docs for QT built in), it works just fine as a general purpose IDE.
maxppp said:
Hi all.
Im a c# / windows developer by profession, but work have just donated an unused mac pro for me to try my hand at some android development.
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Click to collapse
Enjoy the Mac Pro, but I'd stick with Windows + Eclipse, based on that statement alone.
You'll find a lot of value in being able to leverage yoru C# skills as you try your hand at android. I write WCF Rest services & use fiddler, etc as I build android applications.
After you spend a few days with Eclipse, you'll never realized how spoiled .NET developers are. The tooling in Visual Studio is so good, it's tough to get back into Java land.
I've bought a new phone however I do not want to waste my Nexus One. The idea came to my mind firstly was to make it a small 'server' running at home.
Technically I bet it's possible however I don't have a clear path to do that... I've googled for a while and I saw a lot tutorials about how to run Ubuntu on top of Android. However what I want is to get rid of Android and run Linux directly on the hardware.
I think that should have been done by some guys... any help thanks in advance!
zhangxiao83 said:
I've bought a new phone however I do not want to waste my Nexus One. The idea came to my mind firstly was to make it a small 'server' running at home.
Technically I bet it's possible however I don't have a clear path to do that... I've googled for a while and I saw a lot tutorials about how to run Ubuntu on top of Android. However what I want is to get rid of Android and run Linux directly on the hardware.
I think that should have been done by some guys... any help thanks in advance!
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Click to collapse
IIRC, Android is Linux.
If you mean the computer OS, I have no idea.
Theshawty said:
IIRC, Android is Linux.
If you mean the computer OS, I have no idea.
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Click to collapse
Yes I understand that - However I meant Linux such as Ubuntu or Arch distribution...
zhangxiao83 said:
Yes I understand that - However I meant Linux such as Ubuntu or Arch distribution...
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Click to collapse
Running Ubuntu has been deemed possible.
Yes, but why and who will make a port (isn't this simple)? And not all drivers are open source and available to public.
BTW, android is linux and you can even port some applications (a time ago sometime is talking about porting glibc to android, don't remember if this get done, but I think is useless somehow).
It will happen
Word on the street is that Android drivers are being merged back into the development branch of the Linux 3.3 kernel. It's not too surprising considering Android developers were working with the Linux kernel developers until the 2.6.33 Linux kernel.
I bet we will see Debian or Ubuntu running on our N1s eventually. The N1 has a great developer backing since it was pitched as a developer phone, so I bet one of the many talented developers out there will eventually cook up a native Linux ROM. Besides, there are native ports for other devices out there so they can't be too far off.
You can currently install Ubuntu on your N1 but honestly it's pointless. Yes There are great apps to use but compatibility isn't 100% on the phone AND the apps run too slow to actually be useful.
You'd have better chances developing an app for android to do what you want lol.
If this helped hit THANKS
http://nexusonehacks.net/nexus-one-hacks/how-to-install-ubuntu-on-your-android/ Check this link for a how-to.
Any devs planning on porting this to the N9? Since Jolla is based of Meego (I Think?).
l.Urker said:
Any devs planning on porting this to the N9? Since Jolla is based of Meego (I Think?).
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They said that the N9 can be flash on sailfish but there will be no support provide by Jolla.
Plus, you can find some video with the N950 running sailfish. As the N950 have the same hardware as the N9 so it is compatible.
Please do. I heart my n9 so much...
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda app-developers app
There'll eventually be a community port of Sailfish*, don't expect it to be very reliable/slick though, there'll be some things that never work properly.
This has all been explained time & time again, I'm not going into the back story as-to-why all this is true, the information is out there.
*not Jolla's flavour, just the stock version of Sailfish, which means it'll be quite bare-bones compared Jolla's Sailfish (initially anyway).
oh thanks for all the replies. my N9 is just collecting dust right now. whats the difference between jolla sailfish and normal one?
Swyped from my M9704
l.Urker said:
oh thanks for all the replies. my N9 is just collecting dust right now. whats the difference between jolla sailfish and normal one?
Swyped from my M9704
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Jolla is the name of the company..
Sailfish is the name of the operating system
Do we have any news on this?
Still now, don't seen any port from Jolla..
even SDK is out..
But I really like to see Jolla port to N9.. :good:
any news about this?
and anyone has stock sailfish on n9?
Chyea!
Sent from my VZW Galaxy Note II, hyper powered via MeanBean - ICE 1.0
- Hyperion 6,200MAh Extended Battery
- Modded Otterbox to fit battery
- An S-Pen (deal with it)
Just to clarify things.
There is this company called Jolla. They make this operating system called SailfishOS which in fact is Mer.
So what is Mer? Mer is an operating system without hardware layer and UX. This means it's useless because it won't run on any hardware. You need the hardware layer which means drivers und you probably need the UX which means the GUI. This 3 parts together give you an operating system that you can use on your hardware. An example of this is SailfishOS.
If you take Mer and add the Hardware layer for the Jolla device and then the Sailfish Silica UI you get SailfishOS. The only other iteration of SailfishOS which exists is the one with the hardware layer for the Nokia N950. This will never be released as an official or supported Version.
So for all you guys waiting for a port of SailfishOS for device xyz. This won't happen. There is only one thing that could possible become reality and that's a leaked, unsupported beta image of SailfishOS for the Nokia N950/N9. Maybe this image will be the same which we saw in early demos of SailfishOS.
So the rule is as follows:
Even if you get all the linux drivers (not Android) for Mer so that you could possibly run Mer on your device you still need the UX. Jolla won't give you their Sailfish UI. You could use the Nemo mobile UI that is similar to it but the Sailfish UI will only be available on official Jolla devices.
But let's dream a little bit. If you really get Linux drivers for your device xyz and the Jolla device is out there and it has nearly the same hardware as your device it could be possible that you take all the packages that contain the Sailfish Silica UI and install them on your own device with Mer and your own hardware layer. This is possible in theory. In reality I don't think we will see a usable port that can be your daily driver.
An exchange which should help folks understand why there's no images*: http://pastie.org/private/lgldc4h3dikjkqc9nxecaq
They've said once they have one or more devices shipping, they'll probably start to open Sailfish much more, but not a minute before, for several reasons.
But that doesn't mean they'll also start to support images for 3rd-party devices, they'll probably never do that to the degree Canonical does, see the above.
*original source for that pastie
http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=1941044&p=48#r950
Jolla will be ported to N9. It won't hava all the functions, that on the Jolla device (for ex. no Voice control...anyway who needs it?), but it will be officially released around september/october 2013. So be patient
Giorgio84 said:
Jolla will be ported to N9. It won't hava all the functions, that on the Jolla device (for ex. no Voice control...anyway who needs it?), but it will be officially released around september/october 2013. So be patient
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For real? or just your wish?
Is there an ETA?
Is there an ETA on when someone could make some early progress on this project? I'm worried that people are losing so much interest that a preview version of Sailfish running on the N9 might be a great idea to get people wanting more of the Meego successor.
That way, people would be falling in love with Sailfish and since it would have a significant spec-bump over the N9, people would be willing to buy it for the screen/display improvement, the "other half," and the great UI.
Giorgio84 said:
Jolla will be ported to N9. It won't hava all the functions, that on the Jolla device (for ex. no Voice control...anyway who needs it?), but it will be officially released around september/october 2013. So be patient
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Do you have any source for this info? Because there is no official announcement that hit my attention.
hacker00740 said:
Is there an ETA on when someone could make some early progress on this project?
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Click to collapse
As always "when it's done". Please stop asking for ports. Just wait until Jolla came out with there first device. I'm sure there will be ports and adaptions all over the place once the Software gets in the hands of the right guys. And this community or t.m.o is prbably the first place to know it. But asking for it every second won't let that happen earlier.
Hello friends ..
No new news??
SDK when the operating system was released.
Test video of the operating system on it is N9. Why not port the operating system to handset N9 its wonderful ...
Please help developers...
maxomid said:
Hello friends ..
No new news??
SDK when the operating system was released.
Test video of the operating system on it is N9. Why not port the operating system to handset N9 its wonderful ...
Please help developers...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The SDK didn't include the full version of the Sailfish OS. It only contains a basic emulator for apps. So until Jolla releases a phone with Sailfish, it is impossible to port
Sent from my GT-N7100 using xda app-developers app
tbo-art said:
The SDK didn't include the full version of the Sailfish OS. It only contains a basic emulator for apps. So until Jolla releases a phone with Sailfish, it is impossible to port
Sent from my GT-N7100 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the answer
Will be released in full when it is SDk?
Why developers do not work on this phone Nitdroid ROM Port ... Time to full Android experience on these phones ...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2342102
Hi, i want to share this post from a Jolla engineer giving tips to start porting Sailfish:
I'm pretty sure I phrased it a bit different So, both the N900 and N9 have the problem of having binary blobs, which Jolla is not allowed to distribute, and almost certainly never will be. The N9 additionally has the problem of having an older kernel than the N900 -- old enough that it's starting to cause problems. That's the reason why I probably mentioned N900.
As for Nemo and N9, Nemo is a community followup project of MeeGo, and as such inherited basic N9 hardware adaptation, and the right to redistribute those binary blobs. So, if you as user take a Nemo image and put Jolla stuff in there it works -- but we as Jolla can't do that.
Another problem is that the old N9 adaptation is based on X11, while we are using Wayland. We do have a proof of concept Wayland stack up on N9 (available through Nemo as well), but it has its fair shair of problems.
That we're using Wayland makes your suggestion of porting Sailfish libraries to Harmattan hard as well: Harmattan is an X11 stack (same in the different direction: you can't use a Harmattan binary on Sailfish. If you have the source porting is trivial -- unless it's using meegotouch. But if you only have a binary it won't run. In theory something hacking with xwayland might be possible, but that's pretty crazy, and a sailfish port/rewrite would almost certainly be the better option)
So, it should be pretty clear by now that we will not do N9 images. What needs to happen for community to be able to do the port? Easy: Get involved in Nemo. I mentioned that several times, though so far nobody showed interest.
It's mainly 3 areas that need work:
- finish port to the 3.5 kernel we started. The required tasks are in Nemos Bugzilla
- start fixing bugs in the Wayland proof-of-concept for N9
- reverse engineer hardware components where no driver exists, and do drivers (like GPS)
So, it's a hard task, but not impossible. The Nemo community and Jolla provided a very good starting point with Nemo, now it's up to community members to step up, and continue.
SOURCE: TMO