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This was posted by p3droid on mydroidworld - many of us know him, or have at least heard of him. He knows what hes talking about, and this info is somewhat disturbing. This is just a copy/paste of his OP.
Bootloaders, Rooting, Manufacturers, and Carriers
Background
I don't believe that I need to introduce myself, but if I do my name is P3Droid. I am a phone enthusiast and have been working in the Android platform for 17 months. I have been very lucky in my short time on the Android platform. I think more than anything I have been lucky enough to be in the right places at the right times. The day I first saw and played with the Droid (OG) I thought “that is the ugliest damn phone I've ever played with”. Then I was asked back into the store by my friend (nameless) to get some time with the Android platform and he began to explain to me how open the phone was and how a “smart” person could do anything they wanted to the phone. That turned what I thought was an ugly phone into the sexiest beast ever. I guess that was approximately October of 2009, and I was excited about the possibilities and dove right in without checking the depth of the water.
I spent much of the year on an open phone and an open platform, and sometime in July I picked up a Droid X. I soon found a great bunch of friends and we formed Team Black Hat. Really wanting to break the bootloader, we spent more hours working on it than we did our 9 – 5 jobs. Eventually we came to the conclusion (with help from some unique resources), that we were not going to accomplish our objective. Every so often we still pluck away at it, but we have moved on to other things that will help people enjoy their Droid phones.
Fast forward to October 2010. I'm still in love with the concept of android, and I've done more than my share of developing, themeing, creating ROMS and even hacking. *Having been involved in so many things and having developed some unique contacts, I have been privy to information that is not disseminated to the masses. Some of this information I was asked to sit on. Some information I sat on because I felt it was best to do so for our entire community. You have probably seen me rant on occasion about what I thought the community was doing wrong and causing itself future pain. Each of those days I had received even more disheartening information. So where does this leave me? It leaves me with a difficult choice to make. What to tell, how much to tell, and do I want to give information out that could possible be slightly wrong. I've worked very hard to verify things through multiple sources, when possible, and some other information comes from sources so reliable that I take them at their word.
This brings me up to today. I've tossed and turned regarding how to say this, and how to express all of the information and my feelings in regards to this information. I guess the solution is to just let you all decide for yourselves what you think and what you want to do.
One Shoe Falls
Beginning in July, we (TBH), began hearing things about [FONT=inherit !important][FONT=inherit !important]Motorola[/FONT][/FONT] working on ways to make rooting the device more difficult. This was going to be done via [FONT=inherit !important][FONT=inherit !important]Google[/FONT][/FONT] through the kernel. No big deal we thought, the community always finds a way. When Froyo was released and there was no root for some time we became a bit concerned but soon there was a process and even 1-clicks. This was good news and bad news to me, because it simply meant that they would go back to the drawing board and improve upon what they had done.
During this time there were still little rumors here and there about security of devices, and other such things but nothing solid and concrete. Until November.
The Other Shoe Falls
Beginning in October, the information began coming in faster and it had more of a dire ring to it. It was also coming in from multiple sources. I began to rant a little at the state of our community, and that we were the cause of our own woes. So what did I hear?1. New devices would present challenges for the community that would most likely be insurmountable, and that Motorola specifically – would be impossible to hack the bootloader. Considering we never hacked the previous 3G phones, this was less than encouraging.
2.Locked bootloaders, and phones were not a Motorola-only issue, that the major manufacturers and carriers had agreed this was the best course of action.(see new [FONT=inherit !important][FONT=inherit !important]HTC [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=inherit !important][FONT=inherit !important]devices[/FONT][/FONT])
3. The driving forces for device lock down was theft of service by rooted users, the return of non-defective devices due to consumer fraud, and the use of non-approved firmware on the networks.I think I posted my first angry message and [FONT=inherit !important][FONT=inherit !important]tweet[/FONT][/FONT] about being a responsible community soon after getting this information. I knew the hand writing was on the wall, and we would not be able to stop what was coming, but maybe we could convince them we were not all thieves and cut throats.
Moving along, December marked a low point for me. The information started to firm up, and I was able to verify it through multiple channels. This information made the previous information look like a day in the park. So what was new?1. Multiple carriers were working collaboratively on a [FONT=inherit !important][FONT=inherit !important]program[/FONT][/FONT] that would be able to identify rooted users and create a database of their meids.
2. Manufacturers who supply Verizon were baking into the roms new security features:
a. one security feature would identify any phone using a tether program to circumvent paying for tethering services. (check your gingerbread DroidX/Droid2 people and try wireless tether)
b. a second security feature would allow the phone to identify itself to the network if rooted.
c. security item number 2 would be used to track, throttle, even possibly restrict full data usage of these rooted phones.The Rubber Meets the Road
So, I wish I had more time to have added this to the original post, but writing something like this takes a lot of time and effort to put all the information into context and provide some form of linear progression.
Lets get on with the story. March of this year was a monumental month for me. The information was unsettling and I felt as if we had a gigantic bulls-eye on our backs.
This is what I have heard:1. The way that they were able to track rooted users is based on pushing updates to phones, and then tracking which meid's did not take the update. There is more to it than this but that is the simple version.
2. More than one major carrier besides Verizon has implemented this program and that all carriers involved had begun tracking rooted phones. All carriers involved were more than pleased with the accuracy of the program.1. What I was not told is what the carriers intended to do with this information.3. In new builds the tracking would be built into the firmware and that if a person removed the tracking from the firmware then the phone would not be verified on the network (i.e. your phone could not make phone calls or access data).
4. Google is working with carriers and manufacturers to secure phones, and although Google is not working to end hacking, it is working to secure the kernel so that no future [FONT=inherit !important][FONT=inherit !important]applications[/FONT][/FONT] can maliciously use exploits to steal end-user information. But in order to gain this level of security this may mean limited chances to root the device. (This item I've been told but not yet able to verify through multiple sources – so take it for what you want)
5. Verizon has successfully used its new programs to throttle data on test devices in accordance with the guidelines of the program.
6. The push is to lock down the devices as tight as can be, but also offer un-lockable devices (Think Nexus S).The question I've asked is why? Why do all this; why go through so much trouble. The answer I get is a very logical one and one I understand even if I don't like it. It is about the money. With LTE arriving and the higher charges for data and tethering, carriers feel they must bottle up the ability of users to root their device and access this data, circumventing the expensive tethering charges.
What I would like to leave you with is that this is not an initiative unique to Verizon or Motorola, this is industry wide and encompassing many manufacturers.
So what does all this mean? You will need to make your own conjectures about what to think of all of this. But, I think that the rooting, hacking, and modding community - as we know it - is living on borrowed time.
In the final analysis of all this I guess I'll leave you with my feelings:
I will take what comes and turn it into a better brighter day, that is all I can do because I do not control the world.
Disclaimers:
I am intentionally not including any names of sources as they do not want to lose their jobs.
This information is being presented to you as I have received and verified it. *
I only deal with information pertaining to US carriers and have no specific knowledge concerning foreign carriers. "
**** the carriers. There will be a revolt. There are enough intelligent people in our community to stop this from happening. I went with the Android OS because Apple is a POS and RIM just doesn't offer what I need in a smart phone. The carriers can try doing what they want but there will be an ugly battle.
Despite this being extremely upsetting news, thanks for sharing it. I'm hoping for the best and not going down without a fight.
Just thought of a potential solution. We could have someone develop a program which accepts these apps and finds whatever sort of signature the carriers are checking for. It can keep it on our phone and ping back to the carriers when queried.
Just a rough idea. But I know there are people far more intelligent than me that can get this done. Or perhaps something more ingenious. I have faith. It will be a nuisance but if we support our strongest devs we will get through this until the carriers piss the **** off.
Isn't Google throwing out the baby with the bathwater here? If the main objective of the carriers is to prevent unauthorized tethering, isn't there a way to do that without blocking root access?
bongd said:
**** the carriers. There will be a revolt. There are enough intelligent people in our community to stop this from happening. I went with the Android OS because Apple is a POS and RIM just doesn't offer what I need in a smart phone. The carriers can try doing what they want but there will be an ugly battle.
Despite this being extremely upsetting news, thanks for sharing it. I'm hoping for the best and not going down without a fight.
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This is my gut reaction as well. However...... Having spoken with a friend and engineer in the industry (I cannot say her name so take this quote with as much salt as needed) it was explained to me like this.
" Most cell carrier's infastructure are having a tough time dealing with the current customer load as it is. In fact, if you look at events where the influx of people can shut down networks such as AT&T ( the South by South West music fest in Austin TX for example) the cell carries are currently not too worried about losing, what they believe to be, a few customers.
Especially when you figure in the fact that you modding your phone and placing it on thier network is looked upon as you violating their contract. And as it was YOU who violated the contract in thier eyes, the cell carrier can continue charging you for your contract as well as making you purchase an "approved replacement handset"
I am not sure if this is truly the outlook of the carriers or simply the way one employee understands the situation to be......but it wouldnt surprise me if this was exactly how the dev community was viewed by them.
BUT, being around and playing with my phones for a few years now has taught me one thing. There are people on these forums with everybit the brains and know-how as the engineers the carriers employ. And given enough time EVERYTHING can be cracked.
bongd said:
**** the carriers. There will be a revolt. There are enough intelligent people in our community to stop this from happening. I went with the Android OS because Apple is a POS and RIM just doesn't offer what I need in a smart phone. The carriers can try doing what they want but there will be an ugly battle.
Despite this being extremely upsetting news, thanks for sharing it. I'm hoping for the best and not going down without a fight.
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responses like this make me laugh. A revolt? What, more petitions, more rants on forums? This is a momentum shift that the end user can't do much about. There is pressure from a bunch of angles to start locking down certain aspects of android. If you read the whole post you'd notice the part about how a bunch of these security measures are being baked into android at the google level. This is not just verizon making demands of their phone makers.
and as intelligent as some devs are here, we're going to see their advances slowing way down. People are so hopeful that the devs will crack the bootloader (even though they've driven most of them away), yet they ignore the fact that the droidX has been locked down since release, and little to no progress has been made there. (i'm well aware they are slightly different, so don't bring it up). Even look what they did with the last update to the atrix, they blocked known root methods. No matter what the devs manage to do, teh makers have teams of people that just have to look at the exploits, and close them up.
i'm not saying i agree with the way things are going, i'm just trying to remain focused on the facts and be realistic.
cegna09 said:
responses like this make me laugh. A revolt? What, more petitions, more rants on forums? This is a momentum shift that the end user can't do much about. There is pressure from a bunch of angles to start locking down certain aspects of android. If you read the whole post you'd notice the part about how a bunch of these security measures are being baked into android at the google level. This is not just verizon making demands of their phone makers.
and as intelligent as some devs are here, we're going to see their advances slowing way down. People are so hopeful that the devs will crack the bootloader (even though they've driven most of them away), yet they ignore the fact that the droidX has been locked down since release, and little to no progress has been made there. (i'm well aware they are slightly different, so don't bring it up). Even look what they did with the last update to the atrix, they blocked known root methods. No matter what the devs manage to do, teh makers have teams of people that just have to look at the exploits, and close them up.
i'm not saying i agree with the way things are going, i'm just trying to remain focused on the facts and be realistic.
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I am being realistic. Nothing has been implemented yet, so how can we start brain storming? Nothing but ideas at this point, but it's a hard.
And by a revolt I don't mean one of those stupid petitions. We have people with varying specialties and occupations. Perhaps someone can find a legal clause that will help the battle, something in the ToS that would prevent the segregation of rooted versus non-rooted customers, etc.
Don't get all pissy on me about things. I'm not dreaming of anything outlandish. It's better than being a pessimist and taking it in the ass. Many people chose the Android platform for the freedom it provides. It enough customers are grossly outraged, it will NOT come to pass.
Look at Usage Based Billing. I work for one of the biggest ISPs in Canada and when we tried to introduce UBB we saw customers CHURN tremendously. We've received death threats for Christ sakes... and now ask me, cegna09, please ask if we've decided to go forward and bill customers under UBB?
In case that wasn't blatantly obvious and cynical enough, no, we haven't. It scared CEOs ****less and irritated the hell out of front line staff to the point where many of us feel no loyalty to the company anymore. It has shaken what little trust the consumers had in us and they've flocked for other providers. If Google wants to do this, they'd better be prepared for a ****storm of negative press. This is either fear mongering, exaggerations or a bad idea for Google and wireless carriers.
P.S. I type most of my posts at work so they're not always grammatically sound or eloquent. I don't give a **** though. Thanks for caring.
Okay tracking rooted users is new to me. but I thought the rest was normal procedure?
...Root exploit>carrier update (patches root)>new root exploit>new carrier update (patches new root)>newest root exploit...
How is the op any different than current procedure.? Is it just the addition of carriers tracking rooted users that makes this post notable? Because it seems like scaremongering to me. Should I really be that concerned? I already knew att doesn't like me to tether without a plan, and will do what it can to stop me. I dont have any more reason to believe att will stop service to my phone now than before I read this post.
Basically what started all this guys, was theft of services (free tethering) Everyone who has used the free tethering 'hacks' are largely responsible for this movement. Had everyone modded their phones responsibly, and not stolen services from the carriers because they thought they 'had that right' then this would probably not be happening to the extent that it is. I, for one, do not nor have i ever used a free tethering hack. I have unlimited data and use that freely on my phone. I use my pc for web browsing when i have a lot to do online. Below is a quote from a friend of mine on the Atrixforums.com site that is a very good view and quite accurate interpretation of whats happening.
das8nt said:
Yeah, I always knew something like this was going to come down the pipe... it was only a matter of time.
The third part, The Rubber Meets the Road, has been added. I've had some more time to think about this, and I've come to realize a few things. The following is my opinion on the whole subject. It might not be a very popular one, and posting it is not meant to start a large debate or anything, I just wanted to express my feeling on the matter. Please do not take offense to any of the points I'm trying to make; hopefully some of you know me well enough so far to know that I don't mean offense to anyone.
Opinion starts here...
They're right. The manufacturers, the carriers... they're right. We may not like it, but in the end they both have the full say in what happens. I'll give a few examples in a moment as to why I see it this way, but first I need to let you know where I'm coming from. I have a rooted phone; it's not my first rooted phone. I have tethered; though not often or very much at all, but I have tethered without a tethering plan on my account. I have installed ROMs, custom kernels, MODs, hacks... you name it, I've done it. I enjoy it if only because I can. Did I do it because it was needed? In some circumstances, I might argue, "yes;" in others, not in the slightest... it was just fun. The point to this being is that I have done most of everything that is being discussed in the Food For Thought post; and I've done it because I wanted to.
That brings me to a first example. You buy a car; a $20k car at that. Say you pay cash for it; it's yours. You don't even have to have full coverage insurance on it if you don't want to (some states.) You bought it as you daily driver, but you want to make some mods to it: aftermarket exhaust, lowering kit, cool-air intake.... and nitrous. You can do all of those things.; there's no one stopping you. What you can't do though, is maintain a factory warranty on your new car if you install those mods. When you alter the build of the car you are losing your right to claim that that car was manufactured improperly since it's no longer in the same state in which it was delivered to you. No big deal, right? Nothing ever goes wrong until the warranty expires anyway, we all know that. So, you take it to a drag track to see what it can do; how fast can it go? How quick can it hit the quarter mile line? You want to be know as the fastest, so you don't hold back... you kick in the nitrous.... but there's a problem. You didn't realize that the car was not meant to take that kind of load the way it was built. You blow your engine. Is the dealership or manufacturer going to warranty that engine? Would you really expect them to?
Second example. The same car you purchased, before you ever take it to the track, you want to drive it.... I mean really drive it; feel the true power and handling on the road. You take it out on the Interstate because that has the highest speed limits. You quickly get it up to to 70 mph, but that's not enough. You need more. You start to push it a little farther; no big deal... law enforcement doesn't usually care if you're only going a few mph over the limit, right? Well, you haven't been caught yet, so why not push it a little more? Before you know it you're at 95 mph and you see blue lights coming up quick behind you. Is that office going to let you off the hook because you own the car, have it modded and you feel you can do what you want with it? Would you expect them to?
Yes, we buy the phones. Yes, we own them. Yes, we can mod them how ever we can. What we can't do, though, is agree to a service contract and expect the provider of that contract to allow us to ignore their rules and exploit their services to the point that it costs them money. They are a business. They are not in the business for giving away free service, or replace products because the end user did not use them as intended; if they were they would not be in business very long. The carrier has the right to charge what they do, whether we like it or not. We, as users, have the right to find service elsewhere (most of us) or do with out. We agree to their terms when we allow them to provide us service. You do not have to sign a contract to agree to their terms; activating your phone on their network makes the agreement for you. Manufacturers have the right to lock their phones down, after all, they manufacture them. They are not in business to provide two or three phones for the price of one just because we broke the first couple trying to make them do things they were not intended to do. Again, if they were then they wouldn't be in business very long. If we do not like their practices we can buy from others.
I guess what it all boils down to in my mind is that if modding and hacking had been used the right way, we, the modding community and it's followers, might not have this situation coming down on us. If we did it just to customize our phones the way we want them, I'm sure they would have allowed that and worked with us. Since the opposite has been true for the most part, it surprises me in no way that this is about to happen. Users have been 'jailbreaking' and 'rooting' their phones for years, with a vast majority of them being used to circumvent the rules. So, the rules are about to change... like it or not.
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bongd said:
I am being realistic. Nothing has been implemented yet, so how can we start brain storming? Nothing but ideas at this point, but it's a hard.
And by a revolt I don't mean one of those stupid petitions. We have people with varying specialties and occupations. Perhaps someone can find a legal clause that will help the battle, something in the ToS that would prevent the segregation of rooted versus non-rooted customers, etc.
Don't get all pissy on me about things. I'm not dreaming of anything outlandish. It's better than being a pessimist and taking it in the ass. Many people chose the Android platform for the freedom it provides. It enough customers are grossly outraged, it will NOT come to pass.
Look at Usage Based Billing. I work for one of the biggest ISPs in Canada and when we tried to introduce UBB we saw customers CHURN tremendously. We've received death threats for Christ sakes... and now ask me, cegna09, please ask if we've decided to go forward and bill customers under UBB?
In case that wasn't blatantly obvious and cynical enough, no, we haven't. It scared CEOs ****less and irritated the hell out of front line staff to the point where many of us feel no loyalty to the company anymore. It has shaken what little trust the consumers had in us and they've flocked for other providers. If Google wants to do this, they'd better be prepared for a ****storm of negative press. This is either fear mongering, exaggerations or a bad idea for Google and wireless carriers.
P.S. I type most of my posts at work so they're not always grammatically sound or eloquent. I don't give a **** though. Thanks for caring.
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The world of mobile devices is a bit different though. I would wager a bet that 90% of users have no interest in rooting, modding, etc, or even a knowledge of what it is. They just don't care. So when 10%, or even if it's as high as 20%, of the user base shows dissatisfaction, i doubt it would sway them. In the mobile world you always have the choice to change platforms, carriers, etc. With ISPs (at least here in the US), you really have no choice over who you use for where you live.
And my point on the developers is just that's always easier to close exploits than to find them. And it looks like there is new modification to close exploits. I think it's going to start to turn into a 1 step forward 2 steps back game. I sincerely hope it doesn't go that way, but that's where i see it with the information presented.
The place you might have a chance of fighting is the recent ruling that made it legal to root/jailbreak phones. Though i bet AT&T and verizon's lawyers are hard at work finding ways around that.
Oh, and i never commented on your grammar.
cegna09 said:
The world of mobile devices is a bit different though. I would wager a bet that 90% of users have no interest in rooting, modding, etc, or even a knowledge of what it is. They just don't care. So when 10%, or even if it's as high as 20%, of the user base shows dissatisfaction, i doubt it would sway them. In the mobile world you always have the choice to change platforms, carriers, etc. With ISPs (at least here in the US), you really have no choice over who you use for where you live.
And my point on the developers is just that's always easier to close exploits than to find them. And it looks like there is new modification to close exploits. I think it's going to start to turn into a 1 step forward 2 steps back game. I sincerely hope it doesn't go that way, but that's where i see it with the information presented.
The place you might have a chance of fighting is the recent ruling that made it legal to root/jailbreak phones. Though i bet AT&T and verizon's lawyers are hard at work finding ways around that.
Oh, and i never commented on your grammar.
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I'm sure there are a slew of celebrity lawyers on speed dial, and I know that the Apple jailbreaking case will be strongly referenced if there is a class action lawsuit.
I also recognize and appreciate the circumstances regarding closing and finding exploits. It's always a game of cat and mouse. And it sucks having to find exploits and holes. Sometimes it's easy but sometimes it's extremely tough. I'm hoping it's not the latter.
In any event, I'm going to hold out. I know that there'll be a work around or at least a ton of backlash. You bring up a good point that it's a very small percentage of users who root. But that small percentage is virtually all made up of power users. While we're small in numbers, we're more intelligent than the tweenies who just get Androids for texting and Facebook.
I know that petitions and things like that normally don't get done (I never bothered with the bootloader petition for example) but I know that more constructive and intelligent users will chime in with glorious ideas to keep this **** at bay. I sincerely hope it was a late April fools day joke or something. I don't mind Google data mining and harvesting all my consumer logistics as long as they don't clamp down on my phone. Win win situation. I don't mind their parasitic or insidious intentions at all.
kdspiv said:
And given enough time EVERYTHING can be cracked.
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Except Motorola's bootloaders.
jgc121 -
The two parts of the car arguments are invalid. First, loss of warranty, is invalid due to the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act (federal law) and states that a manufacturer cannot automatically invalidate a warranty because of what an end-user has done. There's a burden of proof. It's a consumer protection.
On your friend's second point, exceeding the speed limit is illegal. It is not in the same class as modifying a device. There is no law being broken. You might argue that unauthorized tethering is theft, which I'd need to hear the argument for - who has sustained damages? How can those damages be quantified?
I do, however, agree that this has been brought upon by the end-users who do naughty things (unauthorized tethering, malware creation, piracy).
RacecarBMW said:
Except Motorola's bootloaders.
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It only takes one disgruntled or sympathetic employee...Where are the social engineers?
Kueller said:
It only takes one disgruntled or sympathetic employee...Where are the social engineers?
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If only someone was willing to risk their job
phobos512 said:
jgc121 -
The two parts of the car arguments are invalid. First, loss of warranty, is invalid due to the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act (federal law) and states that a manufacturer cannot automatically invalidate a warranty because of what an end-user has done. There's a burden of proof. It's a consumer protection.
On your friend's second point, exceeding the speed limit is illegal. It is not in the same class as modifying a device. There is no law being broken. You might argue that unauthorized tethering is theft, which I'd need to hear the argument for - who has sustained damages? How can those damages be quantified?
I do, however, agree that this has been brought upon by the end-users who do naughty things (unauthorized tethering, malware creation, piracy).
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If you read how the car arguments are compared - you will understand my friends point. And just by rooting your device, you void your warranty - just like if you add nitrous to your car - warranty gone.... its the same thing. It is the same as modifying these devices, running 'unauthorized firmware' IS technically a warranty voiding action.
Also - these are not MY opinions - just opinions and information from others that im passing along - dont shoot the messenger buddy And tethering without a plan - the way its setup on the network - is theft. It costs them money, and they dont like it.
ok i can sorta understand them wanting to stop free tethering, but why root in general, some people like adding custome roms, or tweaking themes to make their phone that THEY purchased look the way they want it to. I really don't use tether, but locking down root, that's just ridiculous...smh
No; that's exactly my point. Modifying something you own does NOT automatically void the warranty. Read the act; it isn't complicated. I've been modding vehicles for 10 years - I know the law.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson%E2%80%93Moss_Warranty_Act
jgc121 said:
If you read how the car arguments are compared - you will understand my friends point. And just by rooting your device, you void your warranty - just like if you add nitrous to your car - warranty gone.... its the same thing. It is the same as modifying these devices, running 'unauthorized firmware' IS technically a warranty voiding action.
Also - these are not MY opinions - just opinions and information from others that im passing along - dont shoot the messenger buddy And tethering without a plan - the way its setup on the network - is theft. It costs them money, and they dont like it.
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Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
phobos512 said:
No; that's exactly my point. Modifying something you own does NOT automatically void the warranty. Read the act; it isn't complicated. I've been modding vehicles for 10 years - I know the law.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson%E2%80%93Moss_Warranty_Act
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
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I too have been modding vehicles for nearly 15 yrs now, I am an ASE certified technician with EPA certifications, and an Associates Degree in Business Management as well. (Feel free to pm me for proof) I am well aware of this act and the laws. You are missing the point of the previous posts.
A manufacturers warranty would never cover a blown engine due to N20 use.... it just wont. Its intended to cover the engine as it was from the factory. Any changes to the factory setup (within certain limits) are ok. Something like N20 - thats a deal breaker.
As i said before - the previous posts are not MY opinions.... just information i was passing along.
Not sure about that whole Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act..... didn't feel like reading up on it.... but in regards to the whole thing with AT&T and potentially other carriers shutting off all form of cell service to a person with a rooted/jailbroken phone by way of discovery with a special code in the software.... it won't happen unless they're using it in an illegal way (as in using a free tethering workaround, and abusing it to the point that it's easily distinguished that something fishy is going on).... plain and simple. As i mentioned in the other thread with the exact same article linked to in the Atrix forums (one of the other recent threads), the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) was ammended in July 2010, and one of those ammendments was that jailbreaking/rooting a mobile phone to install unauthorized or unapproved applications on the phone is legal.
So.... in regards to the earlier comment someone made laughing at the idea of a "revolt"..... if AT&T starts shutting off service to people who rooted/jailbroke their phone for the sole purpose of either installing a modified ROM or allowing further customisation of the OS than the non-rooted/jailbroke device will allow, then yes, there WOULD be a revolt. That revolt would take the form of... what i believe would fall under a class-action lawsuit. If they can't prove that the person who's service they cut off was using their rooted/jailbroken device in a way that was hindering their service.... which would mostly be the free tethering workarounds and some of those morons downloading quite a few gigabytes of data in a month..... then they would technically be breaking federal law by doing so.
http://www.appleinsider.com/article...ered_to_show_its_new_prototypes_to_apple.html
Hello everyone,
i guess now the S2 will receive some major updates to change the phone software entirely cos of the lawsuit from Apple. The new update already has a new music icon, please read the new above itll explain more.
Samsung has nailed the hardware and i really do hope they can do the same with the software eg touch Wiz which is a terrible UI.
they could have learnt to make something like the sense Ui which is much better.
Apps integration is so important for smartphones to work in harmony, not many phones can do that includng Multitasking and push notifications which are so important. preview widgets could have been improved to give more info to a user without having the need to tap so many times.
Its time for Samsung to bring in some great developers to help them with great UI to nail the market
Apple developers are only human!!!
The topic is a little misleading (the same goes for most of the headlines in the tech press). Apple will not be able to see unreleased Samsung hardware, only the legal firm handling this case for Apple. That means (as mentioned in the article you link to) that Apple's engineers and in-house legal team will not be given access to the unreleased products.
Apple might very well lose the case as well, so I don't expect any drastic changes in the near future as these cases tend to go on for a couple of years.
Would be funny if Samsung terminated their contract with Apple though, think there would be a slight delay to their new products if they were suddenly missing almost all the hardware parts
Maybe this is why the US s2 launch date was postponed?
SBS_ said:
The topic is a little misleading (the same goes for most of the headlines in the tech press). Apple will not be able to see unreleased Samsung hardware, only the legal firm handling this case for Apple. That means (as mentioned in the article you link to) that Apple's engineers and in-house legal team will not be given access to the unreleased products.
Apple might very well lose the case as well, so I don't expect any drastic changes in the near future as these cases tend to go on for a couple of years.
Would be funny if Samsung terminated their contract with Apple though, think there would be a slight delay to their new products if they were suddenly missing almost all the hardware parts
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I dont know why they have to fight with each other rather than working on better software for the user. They work with each other and samsung provides some hardware to Apple, as a company Samsung totally rocks but probably lacks vision cos they dont have a steve jobs sat there. They have even demoed flexible and transparent screens, if anyone Apple would miss out on these if Samsung lost the case.
dinan said:
Maybe this is why the US s2 launch date was postponed?
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Probably. The event was cancelled suddenly late last Monday (May 16). The judges ruling came out last Wednesday (May 18). Samsung's lawyers probably had an indication of how the judge was going to rule. Samsung probably figured it was better to delay announcing new products if there was a chance that Apple could win an injunction against their release.
It appears like Samsung has 30 days to provide Apple with the products in question (Galaxy S2, Galaxy Tab 8.9, Galaxy Tab 10.1, Infuse 4G, and 4G LTE Droid Charge). Who knows how much time Apple's outside counsel gets to review the products before determining if they want to file an injunction. At this rate, who knows when the U.S. will see the S II...if at all if an injunction is granted.
viniturb0 said:
I dont know why they have to fight with each other rather than working on better software for the user. They work with each other and samsung provides some hardware to Apple, as a company Samsung totally rocks but probably lacks vision cos they dont have a steve jobs sat there. They have even demoed flexible and transparent screens, if anyone Apple would miss out on these if Samsung lost the case.
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Apple are probably suing as a tactic to dent Galaxy sales and damage Samsung's rep.
Seeing as the rumored iphone 5 will have a widescreen like basically all Android phones that have been released in the last 1 1/2 years, don't be surprised if some fanboys complain <insert non-Apple manufacturer here> "copied" the iPhone -_-
sense sux in my opinion. tw4 is much better, not very intrusive UI-wise.
don't put your opinion as a general fact
I like touchwiz more than sense. Touchwiz is nice fast clean UI...
The only company I can see loosing out from all of this is Samsung choosing not to supply its top of the range components to Apple..
Apple should really watch itself and who it wants to sue. If all of the top manufacturers decide to boycott Apple because they're sick of their bull****, Apple will be forced to source cheap rubbish china parts, and only the end users will loose out...
bilboa1 said:
sense sux in my opinion. tw4 is much better, not very intrusive UI-wise.
don't put your opinion as a general fact
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+1
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cheetah2k said:
The only company I can see loosing out from all of this is Samsung choosing not to supply its top of the range components to Apple..
Apple should really watch itself and who it wants to sue. If all of the top manufacturers decide to boycott Apple because they're sick of their bull****, Apple will be forced to source cheap rubbish china parts, and only the end users will loose out...
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with this being true who knows how much money said hardware companies make by providing parts to apple...
interesting case none the less
bilboa1 said:
sense sux in my opinion. tw4 is much better, not very intrusive UI-wise.
don't put your opinion as a general fact
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+ ten million
jje
cheetah2k said:
The only company I can see loosing out from all of this is Samsung choosing not to supply its top of the range components to Apple..
Apple should really watch itself and who it wants to sue. If all of the top manufacturers decide to boycott Apple because they're sick of their bull****, Apple will be forced to source cheap rubbish china parts, and only the end users will loose out...
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Nah...dont see that happening!! You need to understand that businesses dont run on emotions! Samsung's R&D units need money to develop new hardware, and that money comes from large scale customers like Apple! Dont think samsung will dump apple just for this. Apple's management knows this....they are not fools !
dinan said:
Maybe this is why the US s2 launch date was postponed?
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It may have something to do with the Microsoft's mango update announcement being on the same day
bilboa1 said:
sense sux in my opinion. tw4 is much better, not very intrusive UI-wise.
don't put your opinion as a general fact
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Click to collapse
Sense rocked in the early days of Android when the interface was bland and lacked credible home alternatives, but now it sucks big time. Not that I'm a TW4 fan, but it's far less intrusive and easy to bypass so for that reason I'll rather have it.
Back to the topic.... yeah interesting case and without going back in time to decide who did one first I feel the interfaces bear too much of a resemblance.
cheetah2k said:
The only company I can see loosing out from all of this is Samsung choosing not to supply its top of the range components to Apple..
Apple should really watch itself and who it wants to sue. If all of the top manufacturers decide to boycott Apple because they're sick of their bull****, Apple will be forced to source cheap rubbish china parts, and only the end users will loose out...
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I agree they need to be careful, but boycott. Never. Apple just SHIFT TOO many units for ANY manufacturer to turn down. (unless it's for logical reasons like they can't meet demand, but i doubt Apple would even go to them if that was the case)
And may I just add, I really hate apple. -_-
Hate their business ethic and I just hate they/he runs the company. (Not going to lie, it's clever and really wise because it brings in HUGE volumes of sales) but it still despise it!
Patent everything them make, sue everyone that has any similarities what-so-ever. Again it's clever but so annoying.
skola said:
with this being true who knows how much money said hardware companies make by providing parts to apple...
interesting case none the less
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Not sure about profits, but it looks like Apple was responsible for about 4% or 5.6B of Samsung's revenue in 2010. Samsung's overall net income is about 10% of revenues, so Apple probably provides somewhere in the ballpark of $500 million of net income to Samsung.
daivik said:
I agree they need to be careful, but boycott. Never. Apple just SHIFT TOO many units for ANY manufacturer to turn down. (unless it's for logical reasons like they can't meet demand, but i doubt Apple would even go to them if that was the case)
And may I just add, I really hate apple. -_-
Hate their business ethic and I just hate they/he runs the company. (Not going to lie, it's clever and really wise because it brings in HUGE volumes of sales) but it still despise it!
Patent everything them make, sue everyone that has any similarities what-so-ever. Again it's clever but so annoying.
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Yeah... just wish i had been around to patent the hell outta scrambled eggs and the idea of cooking eggs in general, and using them to make other foods. That and patent selling cows milk as a beverage...
I hate apple.
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I hate Microsoft more...
http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/28/microsoft-says-android-infringes-on-its-patents-licenses-htc/
I have compared touch Wiz and iOS ,Xperia UI,Sence UI.
IMO TouchWiz does looks like rip off from iOS. For example compare clock app , TouchWiz Clock app is exact replica of iOS. Xperia UI,Sence UI looks different. Similarly many other parts of TouchWiz resembles iOS. Even the design of Galaxy S looks very similar to Iphone 3GS/3G. HTC, SE, Motorola phone looks different. But Samsung phone somehow resembles Iphone.
Most of us are now aware that the sale of Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1 tablets have been blocked in Europe (at least for now) by an injunction in favor of Apple's lawsuit...now it appears they are suing Motorola in Europe as well.
(Source: FOSS)
Can the end of the Xoom in Europe be near at hand?
Read my analysis of the Apple/Samsung situation at http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=16511779#post16511779
That's why I bought my wife a xoom now.
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>Can the end of the Xoom in Europe be near at hand?
That'd be true in two months, regardless.
>Read my analysis of the Apple/Samsung situation
Honestly, you're ranting. That's fine, if it makes you feel better, although not sure why you should feel worse. It's big companies fighting it out. Let them.
Give the judge the benefit of the doubt for competence. If the suit was frivolous, Apple wouldn't have secured an injunction. Whatever legal merit the suit has, frankly, we don't know. Getting upset about it doesn't make us understand it any better.
I will never ever purchase an apple product ever
inspiron41 said:
I will never ever purchase an apple product ever
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My rant:
Likewise. I bought the second Gen iPod when they were a decent company. Then they got in their mind that they can take over the world (which they might) but I think that is very indecent to innovation. I have never had such a hatred to one company and always will.
Sent from my Xoom using XDA Premium App
It's interesting to me how Apple and Apple fanboys tout their products as the best in the world, yet they feel the need to sue every mobile electronics maker in the world.
It's about time Apple tried to sue someone with a strong patent portfolio. As long as Motorola don't roll over, Apple *are* going to get a bloody nose, because suing over patents nowadays seems to have absolutely nothing to do with the merit of your case.
If there's a rant to be made, it's people's propensity to paint things in good/evil terms ("XYZ is EVIL!"), get more partisan ("I hate THEM! They're the ENEMY!"), and become more blindered in their views ("I'll never buy anything from XYZ!"). It's a self-reinforcing cycle.
Obviously, I'm not just talking about something as trivial as whatever brand of tech toys you espouse. The descent to frothing fanaticism is widespread enough that it is damn annoying and frightening at the same time.
e.mote said:
If there's a rant to be made, it's people's propensity to paint things in good/evil terms ("XYZ is EVIL!"), get more partisan ("I hate THEM! They're the ENEMY!"), and become more blindered in their views ("I'll never buy anything from XYZ!"). It's a self-reinforcing cycle.
Obviously, I'm not just talking about something as trivial as whatever brand of tech toys you espouse. The descent to frothing fanaticism is widespread enough that it is damn annoying and frightening at the same time.
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So you're saying is it would be OK to live in a dictatorship country if it was pretty and had good weather?
Sure Apple makes good products, however there are very good if not better alternatives. Apple improves on one product in the market and makes it incredible. Then other companies start making the products better as well and Apple sues them. Happened to mp3 players and iPods, now happening for tablets and iPads. It hurts innovation and I know Google and Microsoft also sue companies but not as much and not as narrow minded/take over the market mentality that Apple has. Now don't get me wrong I have owned Apple before, and yes their products are well made and innovative. But so are a lot of other brands.
But I do agree on the grander scheme of things if we arn't just talking tech toys that yes it is not a good idea to be narrow minded on anything. I believe that's what you were trying to get at.
e.mote said:
If there's a rant to be made, it's people's propensity to paint things in good/evil terms ("XYZ is EVIL!"), get more partisan ("I hate THEM! They're the ENEMY!"), and become more blindered in their views ("I'll never buy anything from XYZ!"). It's a self-reinforcing cycle.
Obviously, I'm not just talking about something as trivial as whatever brand of tech toys you espouse. The descent to frothing fanaticism is widespread enough that it is damn annoying and frightening at the same time.
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You are saying this as if it is a new phenomenon.
======short version========
Put simply, it is easier to deal with absolutes and it is easier to convey opinion to others in absolutes.
======long version========
It is human nature to ally with a particular group, society, or set of ideals and denigrate the things that differ from the ideal you are allied with. Countries, religions, sports teams, type of car.... the list is as long as there are comparable objects. It is possible for people to see in shades of right rather than absolutes but this provides no stable platform on which to hang a set of beliefs.
- It is far easier to say "Motorola is incompetent and I will never use them again" than it is to say "Motorola made some serious mistakes with the Xoom but they did do some things right."
- It is easier to say "Motorola is out to screw early Xoom adopters." than it is to say "Motorola is not communicating well with early Xoom adopters."
- It is easier to say "thou shall not kill" than it is to say "thou shall not kill unless it is needed to preserve other life"
- It is easier to say "Other religions are wrong" than it is to say "other religions are different."
- and it is easier to say "Apple is evil" than it is to say "Apple's stance on the similarity between the iPad and Xoom is not reasonable."
Absolutes allow a person to place an idea, group, or company into a position within opinion that requires less thought and little debate. This is comforting to most, requires less consideration, and makes life easier to deal with. The more you deal with a specific idea/group/company the more details you learn and the less likely you are to paint your opinion on the subject with such broad strokes. No one wants to try and know everything in such detail however.
So while it would be better if mankind as a whole took an effort to see the merit in differing opinions on subjects, it is not the nature of man. To try and remove the polarizing nature of the psyche would possibly lead to less conflict but it would also to moral and ethical confusion.
There have been and are individuals who have evolved past this need but those individuals are not common, indeed the most notable have been quite extraordinary.
Here is one take on the patent issue that underlies the various recent legal spats. The commentary delves into more detail than the usual regurgitated pap, and the arguments made are reasonable, at least based on the material as presented.
http://thisismynext.com/2011/08/11/broken-patent-system/
http://www.daniweb.com/hardware-and...obile-devices/news/376718/1621537#post1621537
DaniWeb can reveal exactly what it is that Apple thinks Samsung has copied, and we hope you are sitting down because the actual community design images contained within that certification are basic to say the least.
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so, what do you think is going to happen? i own a xoom and i am planning to buy a new one to my girlfriend but now i am afraid of that samsung and motorola can cut off their support on these devices.. i dont want to own a device which has no support of new updates/market or accesorries ..
besides i am in turkey and my xoom has been boutgh from the usa by the man who has sold it to me.. so i do not have a bill but only a serial number, i can check the warranty from the motorola web page but what is going to happen if they decide to "erase" the samsung galaxy tab 10.1 and motorola xoom from the market and give everyones money back?
_delice_doluca_ said:
so, what do you think is going to happen? i own a xoom and i am planning to buy a new one to my girlfriend but now i am afraid of that samsung and motorola can cut off their support on these devices.. i dont want to own a device which has no support of new updates/market or accesorries ..
besides i am in turkey and my xoom has been boutgh from the usa by the man who has sold it to me.. so i do not have a bill but only a serial number, i can check the warranty from the motorola web page but what is going to happen if they decide to "erase" the samsung galaxy tab 10.1 and motorola xoom from the market and give everyones money back?
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I don't think you need to worry. Get the Xoom for your girlfriend. If you root it (or even if not) you will continue to have plenty of support for your tablet from this community as well as from Google/Moto. I just think that Apple is not allowed to take over the world. We have to take a stand some time, somewhere.
nooomoto said:
It's interesting to me how Apple and Apple fanboys tout their products as the best in the world, yet they feel the need to sue every mobile electronics maker in the world.
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What is really funny is apple was invented by steve jobs stealing open source programming from someone else, patenting it and putting his name n it, then just having a slick campaign that if u dont buy apple ur not individualistic and being different is cool (as long as it is done in groups...). Then says his product cant be hacked on a tv commercial... Within 48 hours they pulled the commercial because four major hacks came out... So they steal, prey on peoples need to be "cool" and their fear of being hacked... But then turn around and start suing all their competitors. This is not new for them and it is a business tactic now... A pathetic way to slow up progress of their competitors... And their iphone sucks... No expandable memory, no battery pull ability, no open source, poor reception, charges for wifi tethering and it isnt built in, no flash.... Etc etc..
To play on their gay commercials... If you don't have an iphone, well you probably have a better smart phone... Even blackberry and nokia kick iphone ass... Rant over
rockhumper said:
What is really funny is apple was invented by steve jobs stealing open source programming from someone else, patenting it and putting his name n it, then just having a slick campaign that if u dont buy apple ur not individualistic and being different is cool (as long as it is done in groups...). Then says his product cant be hacked on a tv commercial... Within 48 hours they pulled the commercial because four major hacks came out... So they steal, prey on peoples need to be "cool" and their fear of being hacked... But then turn around and start suing all their competitors. This is not new for them and it is a business tactic now... A pathetic way to slow up progress of their competitors... And their iphone sucks... No expandable memory, no battery pull ability, no open source, poor reception, charges for wifi tethering and it isnt built in, no flash.... Etc etc..
To play on their gay commercials... If you don't have an iphone, well you probably have a better smart phone... Even blackberry and nokia kick iphone ass... Rant over
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Though I enthusiastically agree with what you are saying...could I ask you not to use the term "gay" as a negative? I'd go with "To play on their ridiculous/boring/really irritating commercials..."
Anyway...it's FRIDAY!
okantomi said:
Though I enthusiastically agree with what you are saying...could I ask you not to use the term "gay" as a negative? I'd go with "To play on their ridiculous/boring/really irritating commercials..."
Anyway...it's FRIDAY!
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Totally agree on using better negative terms...I would actually call them "smug and arrogant" more than anything else.
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whenever I see someone with an iphone or ipad, I automatically assume this person is 100% gullible and I can convince them to literally buy ANYTHING as long as I make it sound especially hip.
MitchRapp said:
whenever I see someone with an iphone or ipad, I automatically assume this person is 100% gullible and I can convince them to literally buy ANYTHING as long as I make it sound especially hip.
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That's a pretty extreme statement.
Apple has the best marketing in the tech world. They also have some decent products, with plenty of objective reasons to choose Apple over the alternatives.
However, remember that marketing is simply making people aware of a product and its features.
I find when talking to people that decisions on platform aren't made over which commercial was the coolest, but rather the features and/or familiarity with the brand.
I would argue that very few people are so superficial as to choose a platform based on "hip"-ness.
The real problem here is not Apple. Whatever you think of iOS, they are just a company using every tool at their disposal to succeed. If roles were reversed any company would do the same.
The problem is a hopelessly broken, pitifully antiquated Patent system that allows absurd patents to be approved.
This problem is compounded by the abuse of "patent troll" companies that never developed a technology or released a product, but simply bought patents and create lawsuits.
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So I am sure that by now most everyone has heard that Samsung and Microsoft struck a deal where Microsoft receives royalties for all Samsung Android phones sold, and also an agreement for Samsung to begin producing Windows devices in exchange for Microsoft not litigating.
I'm interested to know what peoples thoughts are, because so many pundits are absolutely convinced that this is bad for Android/Google. Personally, I am not so sure.
It seems to me that this Samsung deal was a smart thing for them because it slammed the door shut on a potential second lawsuit, allowing them to focus more man power on the Apple lawsuit. Any win against Apple in the short term is a win for Android long term. I do realize that ultimately this means that Android will no longer be "free" but I think that's ok too because it will weed out some of the crappy devices from low end manufacturers who don't want to pay for an OS (can anyone even pronounce Huawei? don't they manufacture microwaves?), it may slow some of the software development as well and keep older phones a little more current rather than being outdated before walking out of the store with them, and likely would standardize a few more features within the Android universe, since individual handset makers would now have a "cost" for purchasing the OS on top of paying developers to individualize it. On the surface I agree, this looks terrible but looking at long term effects I think it might be good for the end user, regardless of the net result on the Google books.
Ultimately I think Microsoft would have become a strong player in the smartphone market anyway, for the most part at the expense of RIM, so it had to happen sooner or later.
Thoughts?
Microsoft screws everything up with their greed.
And I am fully capable of ignoring the crappy handsets, so that point is null to me and anyone else who isn't easily tricked by commercials... I'd actually prefer to have those crappy devices around to weed out the less intelligent consumers, lol
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styles420 said:
Microsoft screws everything up with their greed.
And I am fully capable of ignoring the crappy handsets, so that point is null to me and anyone else who isn't easily tricked by commercials... I'd actually prefer to have those crappy devices around to weed out the less intelligent consumers, lol
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/off-topic
YES. Keep the dummies out of our forums...lol.
/on-topic
I think it's great. Apple is gonna have to pull some of that magic from the iPhone to pay for their lawyers. I'm pretty sure moto+google+samsung+microsofts patents trump apples anyday.
After what happened with Google telling Samsung to change the magazine ux and stuff do you think we will still get the update cause I think they are going to change the ui again.
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Any source?
Yes, but the next generation won't. Devices and updates are developed months and years ahead. So big changes will probably come in the next generation
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Samsung and Google recently sign a new 10yr deal and within that deal Samsung has agreed to cut but on its bloatwares and turn towards a more Google type user interface. Means we will see a cut back on touchwiz, chaton QUOTE: may but stop in favour of Google chat. Mag ui and may other of Samsung's features will lean towards Google. Look in the technology section of Flipboard and you will find a statement from Samsung which talks about what I have mentioned here.
As I know, the South Korean Government forces mobile makers to reduce bloatware. I thought that Magazine UX is Samsungs backup plan: Create a user interface, which makes migration to other brands with more standard interfaces difficult, just like switching between platforms.
And, of course, apps on the Mag Ux launcher have to be aquired via the Samsung store and will be lost if u go Huawei or something.
Google didn't "tell" Samsung to do anything (or vice versa). A cooperation agreement was reached that could range from something as simple as sharing their mutual patent portfolios during litigation to Google using Samsung innovations (like S Pen) on h/w they may develop. Samsung's biggest threat to Google/Android isn't TW and M-UX, it's Tizen. We have no idea what the practical implications of the agreement are and neither does the press OP is quoting. Whatever the deal is it isn't going to be implemented overnight (it's a 10 year deal) and certainly isn't going to affect 2014 devices and that includes the SGS5 which is 90-95% through its development cycle. Samsung's having margin problems because of the maturation of smartphones in Western markets. They aren't going to do anything knee jerk (kill TW and M-UX) that could further exacerbate their financial situation. And many agreements signed in good faith can unravel as each party's interpretation of what they just agreed to is tested as the agreement is implemented.
Where do you guys get this "Clean" Android thing for Samsung??
The *only* official statement regarding the Samsung-Google deal is this:
http://global.samsungtomorrow.com/?p=33461
It's a patent licensing deal, the same deal that Samsung has with IBM and Nokia for years. It's a similar deal for which Samsung paid 650 million to make use of Ericsson patents.
The only source for this new speculation comes from a Re/code's article:
http://recode.net/2014/01/29/after-...will-dial-back-android-tweaks-homegrown-apps/
This is little more than speculation at this time without any proof at all. Do you think Samsung will suddenly change plans for its GS5 UI at this last minute and miss out on sales of millions of units? Why should they do so? What does Samsung gain by this? There is not a single advantage for Samsung by going 'stock-ish' apart for pleasing some irrelevant geeks.
If you think so much about rumours, you need to also think about the rumour reported recently that MS is paying 1 billion to Samsung to start pushing flagship devices with WP.
gamerdad09 said:
Hearsay...
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Additional stories from other sites all quoting the original unsubstantiated story don't make the original story any more valid.
gamerdad09 said:
You have to admit though with Google signing a deal with Samsung, then suddenly selling off Motorola to Lenovo that it all does sound connected.
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Samsung and Google are both public companies that file their financial performance quarterly. When entering deals their only motive is to drive profits and revenue higher. Pure Google devices are attractive to enthusiasts (5% of the market) and, purely because of Google's subsidization, bargain hunters. Samsung's spent billions in R&D on s/w to differentiate their Android devices in the market. Their massive market share would point to that as a successful strategy. What's in it for Samsung to suddenly make "Pure Google" attractive? Going that way relegates them to a defacto h/w purveyor with Google in control of the user experience. Does that seem logical to you or a place Samsung wants to find itself?
As for Motorola, it was a stupid acquisition going in and analysts are relieved Google unwound a bad bet that was a consistent profit drain on Google's earnings. Whether or not it has anything to do with the Samsung/Google deal isn't know and the logic of unloading Motorola stands on its own just fine.