I don't like the black and white color scheme. The phones are identical and yet one gets to keep the warranty. It doesn't make any sense to me.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
It's an unfair world we're living in.
Mastaking said:
I don't like the black and white color scheme. The phones are identical and yet one gets to keep the warranty. It doesn't make any sense to me.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Motorola needs to sell phones. That's what they do. To do that, they need to be friends with the carriers. Carriers don't want you unlocking your phone and uninstalling all the junk they put there. They make money from that junk. So you need to be discouraged from doing that.
Now, Motorola was actually nice enough to sell phones directly, outside of the carriers, to the general public. These phones are unlocked and easily rooted. That's great!
The cup is half full, not half empty.
maratd said:
Motorola needs to sell phones. That's what they do. To do that, they need to be friends with the carriers. Carriers don't want you unlocking your phone and uninstalling all the junk they put there. They make money from that junk. So you need to be discouraged from doing that.
Now, Motorola was actually nice enough to sell phones directly, outside of the carriers, to the general public. These phones are unlocked and easily rooted. That's great!
The cup is half full, not half empty.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I hear that and in a Macro way that does make sense, but when I think about it in a selfish Micro way I just can't help but feel that it doesn't make any sense that they would let you keep your warranty if it has the words Developers Edition on your phone.
Mastaking said:
I hear that and in a Macro way that does make sense, but when I think about it in a selfish Micro way I just can't help but feel that it doesn't make any sense that they would let you keep your warranty if it has the words Developers Edition on your phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm guessing it's largely about the subsidy. If the carrier is footing the bill for your phone up front, they don't want you running out and doing something they might have to support, thus costing them twice. It's probably easier to void the warranty for all subsidized versions rather than keeping track of who paid full price and who took a subsidy.
binary visions said:
I'm guessing it's largely about the subsidy. If the carrier is footing the bill for your phone up front, they don't want you running out and doing something they might have to support, thus costing them twice. It's probably easier to void the warranty for all subsidized versions rather than keeping track of who paid full price and who took a subsidy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's a very good point.
EDIT: Yes, you do keep the warranty. Sorry for the misinformation below (retained so that the following replies continue to make sense)
You actually DON'T keep warranty with the Dev Ed if you unlock the bootloader.
There's a statement in the box (just got my VZW Moto X DE yesterday) that states as soon as you unlock, you void the warranty and are on your own.
Thus, the only difference is that Motorola willingly gives DE owners the unlock code without having to surreptitiously hack the phone.
I was under the initial impression that you keep warranty. But you do not. Despite whatever the Moto website says.
rfulcher said:
You actually DON'T keep warranty with the Dev Ed if you unlock the bootloader.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You do, in fact, keep the warranty. I think it's funny that you say "despite what Moto says" - Moto provides the warranty. Why is what they say not valid?
http://motorola-blog.blogspot.com/2013/11/you-asked-we-listened-announcing.html
Requesting an unlock code will no longer void the device’s warranty
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Click to collapse
rfulcher said:
You actually DON'T keep warranty with the Dev Ed if you unlock the bootloader.
There's a statement in the box (just got my VZW Moto X DE yesterday) that states as soon as you unlock, you void the warranty and are on your own.
Thus, the only difference is that Motorola willingly gives DE owners the unlock code without having to surreptitiously hack the phone.
I was under the initial impression that you keep warranty. But you do not. Despite whatever the Moto website says.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Odds are, the retail packaging was never updated when they made their change.
imnuts said:
Odds are, the retail packaging was never updated when they made their change.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Apparently, that is the case. Mea culpa.
"Despite what Motorola says" I stated because one of the reasons I bought the DE was that I was under the impression that the warranty would be preserved. Then, opening the box and seeing that cautionary pamphlet, I (wrongly) assumed that I had misinterpreted Motorola's website claims regarding the DE. What I didn't do was go back and confirm via Motorola's website.
Sorry for any confusion, and thanks to binary visions and imnuts for the correction!
The pamphlet is being edited to display the same language we have on the web site on new units. Sorry your unit did not come with an updated psmphlet but the web site language and new legal agreement takes precedence.
Sent from my XT1058 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Plug phone in, run a couple commands, copy key, goto Motorola's official unlock site, paste code, get email from Motorola, copy another code in that email. Run command. Profit. I think that is pretty much how you unlock the carrier versions. It's not any having and is an official procedure from Motorola. What's the difference for the DE versions?
Sent from my XT1056 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
dobbs3x said:
Plug phone in, run a couple commands, copy key, goto Motorola's official unlock site, paste code, get email from Motorola, copy another code in that email. Run command. Profit. I think that is pretty much how you unlock the carrier versions. It's not any having and is an official procedure from Motorola. What's the difference for the DE versions?
Sent from my XT1056 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A) not all the carrier versions can be unlocked, and
B) only the DE versions maintain their warranty after unlocking, as already stated above
Don't blame Motorola. Carriers require locked bootloaders. When you get unlocked phones usually you can do whatever you want to it. The warranty thing is a nice addition but I've never broken a phone to the point where I couldn't fix it myself. Personally I don't see an issue with the colors the warranty is just a bonus.
Sent from my Nexus 5
We're talking about the carrier variants that can be unlocked. We already know why AT&T and Verizon variants can't be unlocked, and that's completely irrelevant to this thread.
freak4dell said:
We're talking about the carrier variants that can be unlocked. We already know why AT&T and Verizon variants can't be unlocked, and that's completely irrelevant to this thread.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same premise applies in the poster's comments above you. The carrier doesn't want to encourage this behavior so while they don't stop you from unlocking, they don't want to cover the related warranty issues.
Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk
I can't really see how that is true since t mobile and sprint both have and embrace the nexus program. In fact the t mobile moto x is the XT1053... Same exact phone as the gsm Dev edition save for the words on the back. Hell, if woven white was available through moto maker, I could go build a woven white back and black front phone and have the words "Developer Edition" put on the back and it would simply be the exact same.
I don't really understand the warranty thing with t mobile since a 32gb moto maker x is the exact same price and exact same model with the same process for unlocking. For Verizon I get it because they already have a locked phone policy, but t mobile doesn't. In fact, T-Mobile says they carry the phone but it isn't a T-Mobile branded phone (which is why they don't have Wi-Fi calling on it).
As well, functionality wise, if you want a nice looking unlocked moto x for at&t, you moto make a t mobile version and unlock it.
At least Motorola has a no questions asked return policy. I unlocked mine and was able to return it. Of course I flashed back to stock (huge pain compared to normal fastboot) and relocked it prior to returning. One thing they don't mention is they pay for return shipping, contrary to their website.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
arcanexvi said:
Same premise applies in the poster's comments above you. The carrier doesn't want to encourage this behavior so while they don't stop you from unlocking, they don't want to cover the related warranty issues.
Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The carrier has no say in a manufacturer's warranty, especially when the carrier doesn't even sell the phone.
freak4dell said:
The carrier has no say in a manufacturer's warranty, especially when the carrier doesn't even sell the phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It does as far as warranty facilitation. You will no longer be able to walk into your carrier store for support. You'd need to work with Motorola directly. While you may be covered with Moto, your carrier isn't obligated to assist you.
Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk
arcanexvi said:
It does as far as warranty facilitation. You will no longer be able to walk into your carrier store for support. You'd need to work with Motorola directly. While you may be covered with Moto, your carrier isn't obligated to assist you.
Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
With the US XT1053, you were never able to walk into a carrier store in the first place. T-Mobile does not sell this phone. They will not support it if you walk into a store, regardless of whether you are unlocked or not. And before somebody tries to say that it's still carrier-associated because they have the carrier name on the website when you order, well, so does the Verizon Dev Edition. The warranty is still valid on that when unlocking. Verizon won't help you with that, either, but Motorola will. That's what needs to happen with the T-Mobile X as well.
Sprint is slightly different, but as mentioned, they sell the Nexus phones in their store, which are also not warranty-voided if unlocked. I'm pretty sure they could manage to figure out how to handle the X, too.
Related
Motorola says they will make the bootloader of the razr unlockable! (The android phone, not the other one) Check out the link here.
For those of you who are too lazy to read the whole thing, I summarised the whole article.
1. Razr first phone to include the fully implemented lock/unlock bootloader software in it.
2.Once Motorola launched the razr in their global markets, they will have a list of the models that will be unlocked displayed on their motodev.com website.
3.Mobile operators/carriers can opt out to having this software on their phone
4.Verizon has opt out. (Doesn't affect me personally but still unhappy)
So now, pressure your carriers!!
Also, hopefully, moto will also unlock their other phones. (Not that we need it now)
That's the thing, carriers still want the BLs locked down.
Why is there such a struggle with Motorola, but not Samsung with this?...
Sent from my GT-I9000 using xda premium
Is there a possibility that samsung has it easier because they pressure carriers themselves? Perhaps by having a variant of the Galaxy S2 on each carrier they can use that to their advantage. They just say "if you don't allow us to have an unlocked bootloader on your network then people will go to someone that will."
With phones like the Razr they can't cause it exclusive. I'm probably way off but it's just a thought.
Sent from my MB860 using xda premium
I hope they unlock all of their phones as I just bought myself an atrix 2 and can't wait to start flashing.
Guess for now I'll have to stick with playing with the old atrix.
The a2 is great but what phone couldn't be better.
Sent from my MB865
JohnnyDanger said:
Is there a possibility that samsung has it easier because they pressure carriers themselves? Perhaps by having a variant of the Galaxy S2 on each carrier they can use that to their advantage. They just say "if you don't allow us to have an unlocked bootloader on your network then people will go to someone that will."
With phones like the Razr they can't cause it exclusive. I'm probably way off but it's just a thought.
Sent from my MB860 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmmm. Good point there. Also, the Droid name is owned by Verizon and not Motorola so thee do have quite little say in the matter. Hopefully the software from the global razr can be ported to the Verizon one.
donharden2002 said:
I hope they unlock all of their phones as I just bought myself an atrix 2 and can't wait to start flashing.
Guess for now I'll have to stick with playing with the old atrix.
The a2 is great but what phone couldn't be better.
Sent from my MB865
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They did say they will start unlocking bootloaders late 2011, and seem to be keeping with the plan. They also say the razr will be the first phone to be unlocked, followed by other devices. So maybe early next year your wish will come true!
As was already said, the key here is that the carriers will have the option to opt out. Motorola could have given us an unlocked bootloader anytime they wanted on the Atrix, but were/are held back by carriers and their contracts. So in reality, not a damned thing is changing unless you choose to purchase a full price non-carrier specific phone in the future which will have this option.
I view this as purely marketing on Motorola's part, as they are offering up nothing that they haven't had the ability to provide at any other time previous to this announcement.
it should be policy to unlock bootloaders once they decide not to bring future updates. what do you guys think?
in my country they just passed a law where it is forbidden to lock phones to carriers; if you have a locked phone, you can just bring it to the carrier you want to use and they have to unlock it for free.
imagine if motorla announced no ICS for atrix, then i could just bring it to an at&t tech service and demand they unlock BL for free and without worrying about bricking my phone.
sanriver12 said:
it should be policy to unlock bootloaders once they decide not to bring future updates. what do you guys think?
in my country they just passed a law where it is forbidden to lock phones to carriers; if you have a locked phone, you can just bring it to the carrier you want to use and they have to unlock it for free.
imagine if motorla announced no ICS for atrix, then i could just bring it to an at&t tech service and demand they unlock BL for free and without worrying about bricking my phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're thinking of SIM Lock and not bootloader unlock. They are 2 completely separate things.
i know the difference
what i was trying to say is that it would be cool if there was a law such the one i described, that applied to locked bootloaders.
Base Blue Chronic 4
I just installed the Home Base Blue Chronic 4 and I have to say its fantastic...
I noticed that there is an update to 6.2 but it says its tailored for version 5??
Am I safe in installing it? I did not see a blue chronic version 5 to download...
Thank you
I wish they would just unlock everything and not give the carriers the option. One can dream...
argo1a said:
I just installed the Home Base Blue Chronic 4 and I have to say its fantastic...
I noticed that there is an update to 6.2 but it says its tailored for version 5??
Am I safe in installing it? I did not see a blue chronic version 5 to download...
Thank you
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
WTF are you talking about? Maybe try posting that in the Home Base thread....
Hey all,
I created this petition to urge Moto and Google to incorporate the Unlocked GSM Variant (TMO) into the Developer Edition policy and allow the warranty to remain intact when unlocking bootloader.
Reasons:
1. Device is sold Unbranded
2. Device is sold with Unlocked Radio
3. Device is sold at Full Cost (no subsidy from Carrier / No Contract)
4. Cost is the same as Developer Edition ($549 for 32gb)
5. Developer Edition comes in one color - including Unlocked GSM Variant will allow Devs to use MotoMaker to customize their device and enjoy benefits of Developer Edition.
I figured that XDA is the best place to get some momentum to this petition and get it in front of the eyes of Moto and Google.
Please sign and share:
http://www.change.org/petitions/mot...-do-not-void-warranty-upon-bootloader-unlock?
Signed
Sent from my XT1056 using xda app-developers app
byt3b0mb said:
Hey all,
I created this petition to urge Moto and Google to incorporate the Unlocked GSM Variant (TMO) into the Developer Edition policy and allow the warranty to remain intact when unlocking bootloader.
Reasons:
1. Device is sold Unbranded
2. Device is sold with Unlocked Radio
3. Device is sold at Full Cost (no subsidy from Carrier / No Contract)
4. Cost is the same as Developer Edition ($549 for 32gb)
5. Developer Edition comes in one color - including Unlocked GSM Variant will allow Devs to use MotoMaker to customize their device and enjoy benefits of Developer Edition.
I figured that XDA is the best place to get some momentum to this petition and get it in front of the eyes of Moto and Google.
Please sign and share:
http://www.change.org/petitions/mot...-do-not-void-warranty-upon-bootloader-unlock?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you would have a much better chance if you created a petition to include the Dev Edition in the Moto Maker process. BL unlock voids warranty if it comes tied to a carrier. Simple as that. I dont think Motorola has the sole say in the matter. People would be rushing to the T-Mobile store for warranty replacements if they mess up their unlocked BL phones. Not something a carrier would want to deal with.
anirudh412 said:
I think you would have a much better chance if you created a petition to include the Dev Edition in the Moto Maker process. BL unlock voids warranty if it comes tied to a carrier. Simple as that. I dont think Motorola has the sole say in the matter. People would be rushing to the T-Mobile store for warranty replacements if they mess up their unlocked BL phones. Not something a carrier would want to deal with.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This device is not sold by t-mobile in stores, and is not supported for exchange or warranty purposes by t-mobile. t-mobile directs owners to motorola. That is why the petition is for Motorola.
charlie-n said:
Signed
Sent from my XT1056 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you!!!
signed.
buschris said:
signed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks!!
anirudh412 said:
I think you would have a much better chance if you created a petition to include the Dev Edition in the Moto Maker process. BL unlock voids warranty if it comes tied to a carrier. Simple as that. I dont think Motorola has the sole say in the matter. People would be rushing to the T-Mobile store for warranty replacements if they mess up their unlocked BL phones. Not something a carrier would want to deal with.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you're right. Possibly the engraving (or whatever the process is) would be an unchangeable "Developer Edition", Luke what comes on the DE models now.
I think the same should apply any full price device purchased directly from Motorola. If the carrier didn't sell or subsidize it, they should be under no obligation to provide warranty support, and should have no say in whether unlocking the boot loader voids the warranty.
I'm signing the petition - I'd much rather have my DE in black, though I have no intention of buying another one just to change color.
Sent from my Moto X using TapaTalk
The lack of warranty acts as a paygate to prevent inexperienced users from claiming. If you were of the experienced type, you would have gotten a DE phone. The best compromise here is a customizable DE phone such that people like us doesn't have to make the choice between Motomaker with 16GB option or the DE phone. I would support the latter initiative.
alpha-niner64 said:
The lack of warranty acts as a paygate to prevent inexperienced users from claiming. If you were of the experienced type, you would have gotten a DE phone. The best compromise here is a customizable DE phone such that people like us doesn't have to make the choice between Motomaker with 16GB option or the DE phone. I would support the latter initiative.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you can get a 32gb (which is what i got) through motomaker unlike the carrier branded ones. Also, since the unlocked GSM edition is already part of motomaker, it would be easier for motorola to update the policy, rather than recode motomaker to include de devices. not that i am going to trade what i purchased, but I would buy a de version if i could change the colors. If i were to buy a de and change the colors right now, i would be voiding the warranty because i would have to disassemble my device and swap out parts.
just makes sense to me, hence why i started the petition
I agree tho.... A petition here isn't going to be seen. Don't they have any forums?
Also... Phone makers are probably tired of rooting/flashing related warranty claims.... So their putting their feet down.
Plus... They aren't going to care about us "tinkerers".... We're an extremely small percentage of their customers.
Sent from my Moto X cell phone telephone.....
I signed it although I doubt we can get them to change anything mostly because of the custom nature of the motomaker.
It unfortunately makes sense that they can't support warranties for phones that are as custom as the motomaker allows.
I don't think they're against us unlocking our BLs, they just can't afford to replace our custom colored phones.
I doubt its a tmobile thing because as was mentioned, tmobile doesn't support the phone anyway, they just send you to moto.
They provided us with the DE and made it as colorful as possible without loosing appeal (a pink and green DE would have probably not sold...)
I wanted a custom moto x because I believe in the phone and the work moto + G has done to provide users with real features that actually meet our day to day needs (as opposed to some manufacturers who smoother users with "useful" features). Non-tinkerers recognize the colorful phone and ask me about it because its customizability is so heavily marketed. This sparks conversations that I enjoy having about technology actually being useful and not a barrier or a feature-laden learning curve.
What I would really like to see are stats on how many people return phones from messing up their BLs? How many galaxy nexus' and nexus 4s were returned bricked? While I see where they're coming from, it seems like they missed hitting the nail on the head, and are unfairly punishing those who do the majority of their mouth2mouth marketing. I don't want to speak for everyone here but I know when my friends are looking to buy a new phone they ask me what I think and recommend. My guess is that if the sales earned from the tinkerers word of mouth was accounted for in their business model they would perhaps consider this petition.
I signed. I would have bought the DE version, if the Today Show $150 worked on it.
Doesn't matter to me either way, but would be nice to fully back their hardware regardless.
cliffr39 said:
I signed. I would have bought the DE version, if the Today Show $150 worked on it.
Doesn't matter to me either way, but would be nice to fully back their hardware regardless.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Signed as well. Would've bought a dev edition if the cyber Monday discount would've applied to it. I feel that if I buy a phone that is not subsidized by the carrier I should do whatever I want with it because I paid for it in full and that means that's mine. If I mess up my phone it's on me and not them.
Signed!
Guys, I'm sorry to rain on your parade, but this will never happen. They barely made it possible for Dev Editions warranties to remain intact after unlocking the bootloader. That wasn't a start of a movement, that was the whole not-making-sense deal of calling a phone a developer edition, but not being able to do any development on it if you want a warranty. And I know the board of execs at Motorola probably spent weeks weighing the pros and cons of doing that. They must have figured that being able to advertise that decision is a bigger PR advantage than the money lost by replacing the bricked devices that were a cause of that decision. Heck, even the Nexus line has their warranties voided by unlocking the bootloader.
The whole reason unlocking bootloaders voids warranties, is because after unlocking, you can flash files not signed by the manufacturer. As in, any file anyone, experienced or not, with good intentions or not, of any general technology experience, has put together. You can run commands from the prompt that will literally brick your phone in 1 second. Can you see why the Moto X Dev Edition is the only phone (that I've heard of) to make it OK to unlock the bootloader? You could purposely flash a malicious image, brick your phone, then request an RMA, just because you feel like it. I'm not saying that anyone here would do that, but look at this from their point of view. If you open the doors, people will walk through.
Look at this at a wider angle. What personal electronics device other than the Dev Edition Moto X is it A-OK to unlock the bootloader? Virtually nothing. It just doesn't make business sense to allow everyday, John Doe users to execute mission-critical commands and have your business responsible when John Doe flashes a kernel for another device because he apparently can't read. Or run a command that someone on the Internet said was OK to run, because hey, who would go on the Internet and just lie? I'm sorry guys, but we need to thank our lucky stars that even the Dev Edition got that capability. That Motorola decided the PR gained was worth the money lost replacing units.
doesn't the DE already have the bootloader unlocked? And there are many phones that already have unlocked bootloaders, I wonder seriously how many have been bricked so bad that they needed to be replaced? There has to be a way to recover these phones regardless.
buschris said:
doesn't the DE already have the bootloader unlocked? And there are many phones that already have unlocked bootloaders, I wonder seriously how many have been bricked so bad that they needed to be replaced? There has to be a way to recover these phones regardless.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Probably not allot of returns from bricking... Considering "rooters" are a tiny fraction of overall consumers.... But, they know us small percentage root... And they don't want to replace a single phone because we messed it up.... that's my guess. I saw plenty of posts in the t989 S2 forum from guys planning to send in rooted phones. They figure if it won't boot... How will Samsung know the difference. The phone makers know this too. So making us unlock on their website is smart, cause they know for sure who unlocked.... Weather they can boot our RMA'd phone or not.
I'm OK with this... Yes, I voided my warranty on day one. It's not just phone companies that don't want to replace tampered with products.... Almost anything you buy now has a warning about warranty being void if you do or don't do this or that. Electronics of any kind usually have a sticker, or whatever, that if you disrupt by trying to open the device up.... Boom. No warranty anymore. Even the tags on clothing.... They're itchy, but if you remove them... Warranty void.
Almost anything really... If they know you tampered with it in any way... Warranty void. Why would phones be any different?
Even if very few people tamper.... They still don't want to give up a single dollar if they don't have to. Lol
Sent from my Moto X cell phone telephone.....
really just changing the software should not be a warranty breaker - the OEMs have tools to low level flash any device back to the stock software and even hard bricks can be repaired. The OEMs should honor the hardware. That is the point of this petition - honor the hardware. unlocking the bootloader and rooting a device has no impact on the hardware. I am not asking that they accept all devices that are broken by the user by doing something stupid, but rather allowing folks to flash a custom recovery and take charge of their device.
are there any computers that have their warranty voided when you remove windows and install linux or vice versa? NO because that is a software change. If the hardware fails then that is something the OEM should cover.
byt3b0mb said:
really just changing the software should not be a warranty breaker - the OEMs have tools to low level flash any device back to the stock software and even hard bricks can be repaired. The OEMs should honor the hardware. That is the point of this petition - honor the hardware. unlocking the bootloader and rooting a device has no impact on the hardware. I am not asking that they accept all devices that are broken by the user by doing something stupid, but rather allowing folks to flash a custom recovery and take charge of their device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First, I'm not 100% sure that OEMs have the ability to save hard-bricks. Hard-bricks are the bootloader being corrupt. The bootloader, being the first thing to even load into memory, from which everything else gets loaded into memory, is vital to the bootstrapping process. Think of it like your BIOS on your computer. If you BIOS goes corrupt, you basically either replace the BIOS chip, Mobo, or in super-rare cases, find someone somewhere with the tools, expertise, and ability to flash that specific BIOS to that specific chip even though it's corrupt. I suppose it's possible that the OEMs have those tools to do it. I'm not saying that do, but I'll give you that it's possible. Even if they do, it probably wouldn't be worth the time and effort though.
Second, unlocking the bootloader isn't just giving the ability to flash to the recovery partition, or even to the /system/ partition. It's removing the entire signature check which checks if the package you are trying to flash has a unique signature that comes from the OEM. Unlocking the bootloader basically opens every single command up for anyone besides the OEM to use. It really is as serious as they warn about in the screen asking if you're sure. Now, since communities like XDA exist where you can basically get walked through how to do most anything, and where 1-click toolkits to do very very dangerous stuff exist, it's fairly safe to have your bootloader unlocked. But as an electronics manufacturer, you need to assume the user won't take advantage of tools like XDA. I'm a software engineer and one of the fundamental rules of thumb is "if the user can break it, they will".
Third, you said:
byt3b0mb said:
are there any computers that have their warranty voided when you remove windows and install linux or vice versa? NO because that is a software change.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you'd be surprised. Have you ever tried to get anything replaced under warranty, then telling the customer support you installed Linux on your box? I mean, you may or may not actually get your warranty honored, and if you do, it will be after a few hours on the phone, getting bounced around, escalated, redirected, on hold, checking with this other guy, etc. before they finally figure it's eligible. We're of course talking about pre-built PCs, to make this analogy fit.
Look, I mean no disrespect or negativity toward you. I'm simply saying that it's pretty much industry standard to void warranties when unlocking the bootloader in any electronics, and as bad as this next part sounds, it's for good reason. If you start preserving warranties through bootloader unlocking on more widely-used or mainstream electronics, then more and more people who shouldn't be tinkering will. Your brick rate, and thus number of replacement units sent out, will go up, and the prices of your electronics will go up to make up for loss. It's good to have warranties preserved through the bootloader unlocking process on niche "developer edition" units because it covers that small percentage of users who want that option, but still bars people who wouldn't mind having that perk, but aren't willing to make the sacrifices necessary to have it. This ultimately makes it so the people who got the "developer edition" of your phone most likely enthusiasts or developers, who know what they're doing, and their brick-rate is probably pretty low.
I wonder if Verizon really realizes the opportunity they are passing up? There is such a demand for unlocking the bootloader, they could make a fortune charging a small fee to unlock it, AND have all those phones off of their warranties and out of their hair. I wonder whether this is not the first time they've given up a win-win situation?
fat-fingered and Maxx-ed out.
Everyone wins here, Verizon gets money for unlocking bootloader, gets rid of unwanted warranties, the dev community grow and thus the phone s lifetime, Motorola looks like a hero, and stops building unwanted dev editions that has to carry on with normal production, charging 20 or 40 for unlocking bootloader fills the gap and its a potential business even after selling the device itself with no effort needed, they are losing potential millons here, and giving the opportunity to some hacker to get rich selling this keys...
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Einsteindks said:
I wonder if Verizon really realizes the opportunity they are passing up? There is such a demand for unlocking the bootloader, they could make a fortune charging a small fee to unlock it, AND have all those phones off of their warranties and out of their hair. I wonder whether this is not the first time they've given up a win-win situation?
fat-fingered and Maxx-ed out.
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Click to collapse
Jaocagomez said:
Everyone wins here, Verizon gets money for unlocking bootloader, gets rid of unwanted warranties, the dev community grow and thus the phone s lifetime, Motorola looks like a hero, and stops building unwanted dev editions that has to carry on with normal production, charging 20 or 40 for unlocking bootloader fills the gap and its a potential business even after selling the device itself with no effort needed, they are losing potential millons here, and giving the opportunity to some hacker to get rich selling this keys...
There are 2 holes in both of your reasonings. Verizon has no interest what so ever in extending a devices life span. They want you to upgrade or use Edge so they can keep collecting the subsidy from you which is a lot more then a 1 time fee for unlocking. The other is the warranty part. Yes we all know unlocking/rooting voids your warranty but we also know there are plenty of people who will call in when they are having issues with a rom they just flashed looking for support from Verizon. Even more so when a noob flashes the wrong software or plays around with something they shouldn't and bricks the device. In the end it will lead to more warranty exchanges for big red and probably cause more price increases.
This is why Dev Editions are not offered or supported by the carriers. I'm not saying I agree with their policies but I understand why they are in place. Like many devs have been saying for a while if you want an unlocked device buy a dev model or go to a carrier that offers nexus devices.
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is this not related to the court case about unlocking a phone from a carrier? could it be argued along the same lines?
teerout said:
is this not related to the court case about unlocking a phone from a carrier? could it be argued along the same lines?
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Click to collapse
No carrier and boot loader unlocking are totally separate things. There is some legal language from a spectrum sale that says they can't lock boot loaders but there is a tiny loop hole about network security they are exploiting to get away with it
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lafont28 said:
No carrier and boot loader unlocking are totally separate things. There is some legal language from a spectrum sale that says they can't lock boot loaders but there is a tiny loop hole about network security they are exploiting to get away with it
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network security loophole...hmm..that argument doesn't hold water.
teerout said:
network security loophole...hmm..that argument doesn't hold water.
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It most likely wouldn't if someone had the resources to fight them but that is next to impossible. I also think that by having at least 1 dev edition available for use on their network it gives them something to fall back on it it came to that
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I would think Verizon would want as many phones off warranty as possible. It's long been a huge financial drain on them sending phones overnight. As for the new phone update, there's not a huge aftermarket for batteries of phones with non replaceable batteries. When the battery dies, eventually, either the phone must be opened up to replace the battery (if you can find one), or just get a whole new phone. No, I believe Verizon would still profit by unlocking the bootloaders for a fee.
fat-fingered and Maxx-ed out.
A Dev edition is available to you.
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@work said:
A Dev edition is available to you.
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Click to collapse
Not really - at least for the Maxx. They have been out of stock for weeks, and they're not even listed on the motorola.com menus anymore.
That said, honestly, I don't think Verizon cares one way or the other. The number of people who want to unlock bootloaders is probably a very, very, very small number compared with the total number of phones that they sell. And, of course, my guess is that most people who want to unlock are looking to get tethering on grandfathered unlimited data plans. That's not exactly a goldmine for Verizon right now. I'd think that they want to get people off unlimited, rather than let people on unlimited plans use even more data.
That I go out and plunk down $600.00 for a new VZW S5 and out of the box it is of a newer version that can't be rooted?
(I have to buy full retail to keep un-limited data plan)
I should be able to power it up out of box prior to purchase to check version number? What ver should I be looking for or what to avoid like the plague?
Chopstix9 said:
That I go out and plunk down $600.00 for a new VZW S5 and out of the box it is of a newer version that can't be rooted?
(I have to buy full retail to keep un-limited data plan)
I should be able to power it up out of box prior to purchase to check version number? What ver should I be looking for or what to avoid like the plague?
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Click to collapse
It has nothing to do with when the phone was made. It has to do with the firmware of the phone and since the firmware version hasnt changed since the phone was rooted then you will be fine. It may not even make a difference when new firmware is released. It depends on if google fixes the loophole because its not just a samsung problem, its an android problem. The root works for most any android device. If you have been keeping up with you it, you would know that Google recently hired the guy, geohot, that found the root, so it is only a matter of time before it is fixed but it will take a long time to release new firmwares for every phone infected. This may never happen and it just may be fixed in new phone releases such as the note 4 or galaxy s 6.
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Its simple just get the VZW Developer S5 if your going to buy it outright. So you can enjoy root and all that unlocked bootloader goodness. Here's the link for the Developer S5 http://www.samsung.com/us/mobile/cell-phones/ET-G900VMKAVZW
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miller1821 said:
It has nothing to do with when the phone was made. It has to do with the firmware of the phone and since the firmware version hasnt changed since the phone was rooted then you will be fine. It may not even make a difference when new firmware is released. It depends on if google fixes the loophole because its not just a samsung problem, its an android problem. The root works for most any android device. If you have been keeping up with you it, you would know that Google recently hired the guy, geohot, that found the root, so it is only a matter of time before it is fixed but it will take a long time to release new firmwares for every phone infected. This may never happen and it just may be fixed in new phone releases such as the note 4 or galaxy s 6.
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Click to expand...
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Where did you read Google hired George at?
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Dennisg34 said:
Where did you read Google hired George at?
Sent from my S5 using your mom
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Click to collapse
Here from BBC.
22jk said:
Its simple just get the VZW Developer S5 if your going to buy it outright. So you can enjoy root and all that unlocked bootloader goodness. Here's the link for the Developer S5 http://www.samsung.com/us/mobile/cell-phones/ET-G900VMKAVZW
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Good point !! The only problem I envision I may encounter is the extended warranty. I bought the GNEX the week it hit the market and pay the 5 bux a month for the extended warranty. I drive a truck and am rough on phones. The charging port loosens up and quits working. I've already checked with VZW and they offer it on the standard S5. I am on my 5th GNEX over the years that they have over-nighted me at no cost with the warranty. I'm going to have to find out if I can get that on the dev edition.
Edit:Yeah I was afraid of that .... just got out of a chat session with VZW rep. To get the extended warranty I would have to buy the phone from VZW. They don't sell the dev edition, I would have to get it directly from Sammy and that only has the one year warranty. I didn't see anywhere on the sammy site to open a chat window to enquire about an extended warranty but I doubt it's available. Not to mention you have to send the phone in under their warranty terms and wait for a replacement. With VZW, they over-night a phone along with a paid return sticker and package and I have 10 days to return the broken phone. Can't go without my phone for weeks waiting for a replacement.
I've been running custom ROMS since my original MotoDroid and can't imagine going back to running stock. BUT !! I am grandfathered into the un-limited data plan and run the house off of the phones. Got rid of cable internet when they lit my town with 4G and I get 27.5m down and 18+ up.... So long as I can enable the wifi hotspot to broadcast, I guess I could live with a less than un-locked phone for now. Hoping in the future it will be.
You can get the warranty. When I was activating my phone I purchased online elsewhere the rep told me I could get it since they currently have "open enrollment" this was exactly a week ago. It's call back and all about it.
22jk said:
Its simple just get the VZW Developer S5 if your going to buy it outright. So you can enjoy root and all that unlocked bootloader goodness. Here's the link for the Developer S5 http://www.samsung.com/us/mobile/cell-phones/ET-G900VMKAVZW
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Click to collapse
whtciv2k said:
You can get the warranty. When I was activating my phone I purchased online elsewhere the rep told me I could get it since they currently have "open enrollment" this was exactly a week ago. It's call back and all about it.
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Click to collapse
If VZW does not stock the dev edition, they aren't going to have a refurbed one on hand to replace mine with under the extended warranty. I can see what would happen now. Even if they sold me the extended warranty, if something happened and I had to get it replaced, the phone they will send out will be a standard consumer grade S5. I'll try another vzw rep but they were emphatic I must purchase from VZW to add the extended warranty to the phone.
Edit: just chatted with another rep and they told me yes I could get the ext warr when I activate phone. I mentioned how will they replace it if they don't stock it? rep's reply "good point" ... he agreed with me they would send out a consumer grade phone as a replacememt.
Chopstix9 said:
If VZW does not stock the dev edition, they aren't going to have a refurbed one on hand to replace mine with under the extended warranty. I can see what would happen now. Even if they sold me the extended warranty, if something happened and I had to get it replaced, the phone they will send out will be a standard consumer grade S5. I'll try another vzw rep but they were emphatic I must purchase from VZW to add the extended warranty to the phone.
Edit: just chatted with another rep and they told me yes I could get the ext warr when I activate phone. I mentioned how will they replace it if they don't stock it? rep's reply "good point" ... he agreed with me they would send out a consumer grade phone as a replacememt.
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Click to collapse
The rep probably had no clue. This is what they will do. The phone is exactly the same except for the dev has unlocked bootloader. So they will take an original refurb and rebrand it as a dev edition with unlocked bootloader and dev firmware. Its not that hard, just because we cant flash certain things doesnt mean they cant. You will get a refurb equal to what you bought. That simple.
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miller1821 said:
The rep probably had no clue. This is what they will do. The phone is exactly the same except for the dev has unlocked bootloader. So they will take an original refurb and rebrand it as a dev edition with unlocked bootloader and dev firmware. Its not that hard, just because we cant flash certain things doesnt mean they cant. You will get a refurb equal to what you bought. That simple.
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Click to collapse
Not exactly that simple. It is true, you get a refurb equal to what you bought if bought from VZW. They do not sell the dev edition and I was told since dev edition is un-locked it automatically voids any warranty that VZW would recognize/honor, since they do not sell un-locked phones. My only hope would be if Samsung sold an extended warranty, which they don't. I did verify, they are currently having an 'open enrollment' where you can warranty a phone bought from other than VZW, but the un-locked proviso is in place according to them. It was the store manager I talked this over with and he seems quite knowlegble. I've dealt with him for years.
Yes, I love ROM's have been flashing since my original moto-droid. But so long as I can activate tethering to run the house on the phone I'd be all right. Looking for an answer as to whether I can revert to full stock to be able to do a warranty exchange if I safestrap it ...
Broader/bootloader, whatever. Here. Here's your thread. Please stop clogging other threads with your theories.
I'm not saying it's aliens, but it's aliens.
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Lol I feel you, OP. This has gotten sad.
Unfortunately, I don't think it matters anymore who's fault it is (both), since the only people who can do anything about it have moved on to the international version, or other devices completely. I was one of the hopeful, but the petty bickering in here and the lack of updates from Tmo has made me all but give up. The main thread got closed down, and the push pretty much died there. Ice was supposed to have Forbes cover the story and have a lawyer look into possible legal action, neither of which panned out, through no fault of Ice's. It's just the way the cookie crumbled.
For the sake of being on topic, it's both Samsung and Tmo's fault sort of. Samsung locked the phone and Tmo didn't request it be unlocked. Either one of them could unlock it easily, which is why I held out hope in the first place, but the lack of action, or even updates leads me to believe we're SOL. I'm going to file an insurance claim with Upsie and request they send me an international version. I suggest anyone who wants root do the same. Upsie's deductible is only $25, but you have to purchase a new insurance plan once you get your new phone.
Bootloader* (Squared)
AKW said:
Lol I feel you, OP. This has gotten sad.
Unfortunately, I don't think it matters anymore who's fault it is (both), since the only people who can do anything about it have moved on to the international version, or other devices completely. I was one of the hopeful, but the petty bickering in here and the lack of updates from Tmo has made me all but give up. The main thread got closed down, and the push pretty much died there. Ice was supposed to have Forbes cover the story and have a lawyer look into possible legal action, neither of which panned out, through no fault of Ice's. It's just the way the cookie crumbled.
For the sake of being on topic, it's both Samsung and Tmo's fault sort of. Samsung locked the phone and Tmo didn't request it be unlocked. Either one of them could unlock it easily, which is why I held out hope in the first place, but the lack of action, or even updates leads me to believe we're SOL. I'm going to file an insurance claim with Upsie and request they send me an international version. I suggest anyone who wants root do the same. Upsie's deductible is only $25, but you have to purchase a new insurance plan once you get your new phone.
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Click to collapse
T-Mobile has always been on the stance since the Amaze. It's up to the manufacturer to lock it or not. They would never request it to be locked. To date all bootloaders prior to the S7 were unlocked except where manufacturers have locked them. IE HTC. LG did lock a bootloader once and they themselves admitted(front office response) they locked it.
Someone may bring up Sony device. They still haven't answered this question. What does T-Mobile have to gain to lock those devices and not every other device on their network? Have yet to see a valid reason.
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Ker~Man said:
Bootloader* (Squared)
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Click to collapse
Damn phone. Haha
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Tidbits said:
T-Mobile has always been on the stance since the Amaze. It's up to the manufacturer to lock it or not. They would never request it to be locked. To date all bootloaders prior to the S7 were unlocked except where manufacturers have locked them. IE HTC. LG did lock a bootloader once and they themselves admitted(front office response) they locked it.
Someone may bring up Sony device. They still haven't answered this question. What does T-Mobile have to gain to lock those devices and not every other device on their network? Have yet to see a valid reason.
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Click to collapse
It's not that they requested it to be locked, it's that they didn't request it to be unlocked. Samsung is the one who physically locked it, but Tmo just it took as is.
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My 2c: the fact that Des (tmo prod vp) had to ask someone on twitter what would he do with root showed me how disconnected the power-that-be from the needs of the niche development community. It is what is. Like him, many people who are the face of tech is unfortunately just power users, with no deeper connection than somehow ending up in the tech dept by luck or by proficiency in climbing the ladder. If those who can move mountains for us on this don't understand the need in the first place , there will be no movement.
tldr; so long, SM-G930T and SM-G935T. Hope we meet again on better terms. Tmo and Samsung, give my VR and gift cards, and I'll be on my way possibly with the F. Thanks for the Netflix!
lost_ said:
My 2c: the fact that Des (tmo prod vp) had to ask someone on twitter what would he do with root showed me how disconnected the power-that-be from the needs of the niche development community. It is what is. Like him, many people who are the face of tech is unfortunately just power users, with no deeper connection than somehow ending up in the tech dept by luck or by proficiency in climbing the ladder. If those who can move mountains for us on this don't understand the need in the first place , there will be no movement.
tldr; so long, SM-G930T and SM-G935T. Hope we meet again on better terms. Tmo and Samsung, give my VR and gift cards, and I'll be on my way possibly with the F. Thanks for the Netflix!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Haha yeah bet...Enjoy your new phone. The galaxy s7 edge is easily touted as the Best android smartphone out right now in terms of design, features and specs. Everybody who leaves samsung for another phone because they want root is either new to the game or just wants to tag along.. folks who have had ROOT since way back when, don't really care that much. At least I dont..i could see rooting and all if I needed it back when I was 16. Android is mature enough!!
And honestly yall should too. Returning a phone because it has EVERYTHING YOU want except root? Hahaha it's like me letting go of the perfect woman because she can't **** other guys lol. It's a SECURED device. People with root are less secure more vulnerable but hey I speak from experience. First people where crying because they didn't have an SD card Yada, yadayada not it has that, the best battery life on any phone. Yet people aren't happy? F IT, you can't please the whole gotdamn world. I know A LOT of us are indeed happy with the phone and didn't get it for the freebies like I'm sure you jumped to the g5 to get the little battery and little cam huh?
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nano303 said:
Haha yeah bet...Enjoy your new phone. The galaxy s7 edge is easily touted as the Best android smartphone out right now in terms of design, features and specs. Everybody who leaves samsung for another phone because they want root is either new to the game or just wants to tag along.. folks who have had ROOT since way back when, don't really care that much. At least I dont..i could see rooting and all if I needed it back when I was 16. Android is mature enough!!
And honestly yall should too. Returning a phone because it has EVERYTHING YOU want except root? Hahaha it's like me letting go of the perfect woman because she can't **** other guys lol. It's a SECURED device. People with root are less secure more vulnerable but hey I speak from experience. First people where crying because they didn't have an SD card Yada, yadayada not it has that, the best battery life on any phone. Yet people aren't happy? F IT, you can't please the whole gotdamn world. I know A LOT of us are indeed happy with the phone and didn't get it for the freebies like I'm sure you jumped to the g5 to get the little battery and little cam huh?
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Click to collapse
This was why the other threads got closed. Back to square one. LOL.
lost_ said:
This was why the other threads got closed. Back to square one. LOL.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is? Lol. No sht...OK then...nevermind...pointless
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Well just my 2c it doesn't matter who is at fault the fact is our device is locked down. No way I would consider returning this device. Would I like root sure but for now it isn't happening. Most of these threads are just meant to vent but really serve no purpose.
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..
lost_ said:
This was why the other threads got closed. Back to square one. LOL.
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v8dreaming said:
That's why I started this thread, but the bounty thread still got locked.
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Click to collapse
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AKW said:
It's not that they requested it to be locked, it's that they didn't request it to be unlocked. Samsung is the one who physically locked it, but Tmo just it took as is.
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Click to collapse
Who's to say T-Mobile didn't even get the option or the choice? Samsung has been awfully quiet in this whole thing. Legere put them under the bus and do you think T-Mobile would say a lie which Samsung has proof it wasn't true to have it blow up in T-Mobile's face for lying. Think about it for a minute.
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Tidbits said:
Who's to say T-Mobile didn't even get the option or the choice? Samsung has been awfully quiet in this whole thing. Legere put them under the bus and do you think T-Mobile would say a lie which Samsung has proof it wasn't true to have it blow up in T-Mobile's face for lying. Think about it for a minute.
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Click to collapse
Again though, it WAS Samsung who locked the bootloader, so Tmo isn't lying, and I'm sure they DID have the choice, and they chose not to request and unlocked version.
AKW said:
Again though, it WAS Samsung who locked the bootloader, so Tmo isn't lying, and I'm sure they DID have the choice, and they chose not to request and unlocked version.
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Click to collapse
Source of this information that they did have a choice, or is this purely your speculation? So far Samsung is silent and hasn't said anything about it officially.
Also they are requesting it now and Samsung has a method already developed(see china). So why the Samsung dilly dally?
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Tidbits said:
Source of this information that they did have a choice, or is this purely your speculation? So far Samsung is silent and hasn't said anything about it officially.
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I guess you could call it educated speculation. Historically, Tmo has had unlocked/unlockable bootloaders, while other carriers' were locked. This is the first phone in recent memory that has shipped locked down on Tmo, at least since I've been with them. This leads me to believethat they generally request theirs to be unlocked. If they didn't have the choice (which I guess is entirely possible) this would be the first time I can recall.
In addition, the fact that Samsung released their own Exynos versions with unlockable bootloaders lends itself to the theory that the BLs were locked at US carrier request. More than likely, AT&T and Verizon requested locked down versions, and for one reason or another, Tmo and Sprint didn't specifically request unlocked ones. I don't pretend to know what those reasons are, but I'm sure they're there.
It's also possible that ALL Snapdragon variants are locked by Qualcomm, since the only way to unlock the Asian Snapdragon variants is with the CROM Service app, but the CROM Service app doesn't work on US versions because we don't have the CROM lock on our bootloaders. This brings up the question of who's choice it was to exclude this lock as well. If it was Samsung, why did they include it on the Asian variants?Logically, it always comes back to the US carriers no matter how you look at it. This part is entirely speculation, however.
The LG G2 was locked and LG said they locked it themselves and no one was given the option and that included overseas as well.
All HTC devices were locked by HTC, but they gave an option to unlock it. HTC on carriers request will remove carrier devices from the unlock list if requested.
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---------- Post added at 07:37 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:27 AM ----------
Also just because other variants have the ability doesn't mean carriers were given an option. For example China which you brought up has the option. In China that could be a government request and in order to sell there they must have a method to do so.
They could easily flash a new bootloader and install allow Crom in the states. T-Mobile right now is playing nice and is taking the heat for something they probably didn't have an option, or could very well didn't know they had an option due to the fact Samsung never told them or they assumed it was unlocked as you always had to request it to be locked.
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Tidbits said:
The LG G2 was locked and LG said they locked it themselves and no one was given the option and that included overseas as well.
All HTC devices were locked by HTC, but they gave an option to unlock it. HTC on carriers request will remove carrier devices from the unlock list if requested.
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Click to collapse
The difference between those examples and this one is that in those cases, ALL devices were locked unless (in HTC's case) the carrier specifically requested otherwise. This only lends itself to my explanation. In this case, only the Snapdragon variants are locked. Samsung's own Exynos versions aren't. The only thing that makes sense is that Samsung locked the BLs at AT&T and Verizon's request, and Tmo and Sprint were like "*shrug* whatever". Or it's possible they wanted unlocked versions, but some other circumstances prevented that from happening.
I don't know for sure, this is just the most plausible explanation I can see. Either way though it doesn't really matter. As I said in my first post on this thread, the only ones who can do anything about it have moved on and by the time Tmo or Samsung release an unlock (if they ever do) there will be significantly less development than the international version, since most devs have jumped over there.
It can't be BOTH ways. It either has to be locked and carrier request to unlock or unlocked and carriers have to lock it. Right now you are using both ways. If Verizon and AT&T can request it to be locked then that means they were unlocked to begin with. That means Sprint and T-Mobile would have to request them to be unlocked. That would mean Samsung themselves couldn't have locked it. Now if it was reversed then you would have a point. Right now last I remember both Sprint and T-Mobile said it's Samsung who locked it. The way they talk it seems like they were never given the option. Samsung could clear the air but remains silent probably due to the fact they locked it themselves and NEVER gave anyone an option here in the states.
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