Related
Hello all,
This post is meant so we can get to know each other before the dev community gets going. This way we learn what each other's strengths are and can maybe get things going better.
My name is Chuck and I am a well versed XDAer. I came from the HTC Wizard and WinMo and then moved on to the G1. There I learned from guys like JF, Haykuro and, everyone's hero, Cyanogen. I didn't really do any devving there though. I then moved on to the Hero and since we didn't really have any devs I stepped up and learned how to cook roms. Then I learned how to compile AOSP and kernels. I built the Gutted Hero rom, which I eventually abandoned due to time restraints but I know that won't happen here. I am attempting to learn more about linux exploits and gaining root so that hopefully I can help root this beautiful device when it comes today.
So anyone else who wants to please join in and let us know your background.
Hi Chuck!
I'm pretty much a n00b when it comes to the dev environment, but I want to jump in and get my hands dirty I started reading XDA back when the HTC Titan (Mogul) first hit the scenes, but then jumped into a Blackberry... Since jumping, I haven't really looked back into wanting to learn until news of Android... Then mentions of the HTC "Supersonic" coming to a CDMA carrier (I have Sprint btw) and as well as the N1 possibly releasing a CDMA version. That caught my attention and now I really want to learn and jump into developing!
Now I'm trying to read up as much from the different Android forums, but it's all so much... Trying to take it one step at a time. I'm not a complete n00b when technology is involved, as I used to build boxes back in the day of Pentium II/III, AMD T-Bird days, PC Tech for Gateway (when they had stores), and the sorts...
Stinks that the N1 is not coming to Sprint, but I am planning on getting the Evo. Definately wanting and willing to learn as much as I can!
admin over at SDX-developers.com
wrote my own root exploit for the samsung moment on android 2.1
modified/tweaked an open source recovery
with released open source linux kernel 2.6.27 and 2.6.29, compiled many custom kernels
strong suite, linux. decent with java. terrible with being creative like theming.
excited to work together on the EVO!
edit: for those interested - my android 2.1 resume all with the Samsung Moment
Root Exploit for Android 2.1
Online Kitchen
Linux 2.6.29 Android 2.1 Custom Kernel
Hey guys,
Ok, i have background what so ever... But im slowly learning java so i can start coding and so on with android. So basically my cup is empty...
just wanted to say hi !
Oh and another thing i wanted to add, I was always the guy that devs get files and stuff to for testing and made guides on how to install things and so on ^.^
side note
Themer
Well this is a nice way to meet each other and see what we can assist each other with. I began with editing files, back in the Apache the small fridge looking device . I've been in the windows scene for about 3-5 yrs or so and modded, and mostly created themes. In that time frameI learned to edit manila files,make cabs, and learned how to edit all different software ui apps, windows, and shell. The Vogue had the android files arranged and worked with to use in the sdcard and have the android working with it working I found out how to edit files and do some soft modding. I then learned how to theme but with family and biz I've still got the need to sit down and learn to package, and the rest of the guru qualities as some of you may have. Here is a thread I've begun as I did with the Hero for all creations, mods, themes etc to be shared. I've enjoyed learning and being a part of XDA, looking forward to the fellowship. I've begun editing the Evo files and created some clock's and will continue with rosie, taskbar and apk's you can view it here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=685537
Apache-Mogul-Vogue Touch-TouchPro-Hero-Evo soon
Thanks to you all that played a part in rooting, roms, modding and making it possible for themers to give it a touch of class to share with everyone as you have with your work.. Thank you
Good idea for a thread.
I'm Justin--but it's easier to go by Shidell--and I'm moving over from the Vogue community. Within the last two years I've gotten serious about development, and have a strong .NET background with a (growing) C/C++ background. However, linux is still pretty foreign to me, which makes development on that platform somewhat challenging.
With the Vogue, I compiled my own build of Eclair for it from AOSP, and worked with Dzo, mssmison, jnadke (and others, all the names evade me right now) on updating/fixing the GPS library.
I'm fairly clueless when it comes to the bootloader, the kernel, how one would go about exploiting either to achieve root (or even how to go about doing so), but I'm eager to learn and help.
I plan on keeping my Vogue and continuing to learn by using that as a test device for more serious ambitions (kernel development/flashing, etc.) But I'll be actively involved in this community as well. Please feel free to ping me with questions, requests for assistance, etc.
(Also, I do have an Evo via Google I/O, so if you're looking for data a bit early, I'd be glad to help.)
Hello all- I have no experience with this stuff at all other rooting & running different roms/hacks on my former devices (g1 & mt3g) so I was debating whether to even post this here...however I am very interested in learning as much as I can about everything mentioned above & more- it is fascinating to me!
So any suggestions on where to start learning (books/links/etc)?
6/4/10 can't get get here soon enough!
tester here
i am willing to begin testing you may send me a pm and we can discuss over gtalk.
i have years of experience of flashing my phone numerous times back in the ppc6700 days and have had a moment since january and always flashing off sdx and am glad to be back on xda! hit me up ill work with you and tell you what bugs i find etc after i know your phone wasnt bricked
Hello, im a loyal follower of joeykrim from sdx-developers. No experience in writing or creating, but MORE than willing to be a test dummy, guide writer, as i can be quite explicit (the good kind), or a noob helper. pm me and i can get you my email address, phone number, or we can chat through facebook. not currently using any other methods of communication but im willing to switch to anything else more universally accepted by these fine forums.
EDIT: joined xda because the evo is coming out, and i hear this is THE place for htc devices. want to give all the assistance i can
My name is Dan, though I also go by Q. I got an EVO at Google I/O, and want to get it rooted while I still can (an NDA may get in the way soon)
I've been hacking on Linux for 8 years now, and know the entire system very well. I'm also not particularly afraid to solder (which is unfortunate, because I'm also not particularly good at it), so that may be an option. I also have a Droid and a Google ION.
I'm a jack-of-all-trades. I know some C, mediocre C++, C# expert, some java (easy to pick up), php, vb.net, etc. I know hardware, but not embedded stuff. I'm the geek that other computer geeks come to. You get the idea.
But, what skills are you using to modify the Android kernel? Do I need to know assembly? C++? I know I need to know C and the Linux kernel, but how much of the kernel do I need to know? Beginner, so-so, professional, expert? Do I need to know embedded Linux specifically? Do I need to know Linux drivers?
Just point me into the right direction, thanks!
I currently have the G1 from 2 years ago. I'm put my deposit down, and getting my EVO on 6/4/2010. I look forward to learning from you guys.
im well... toastcfh been through a lot with linux for sure. it all started with my old Dell Axim X50. i began working on linux for that device before android was a real deal. then i got a HTC Diamond and did a lot of kernel work for the support of linux on it and other HTC devices. got my HTC Heroc by a streak of luck and smooth talking for free (sprint can be dumb) . anyhow, on the Heroc i managed to be a big part of root,porting and development for it. the main things im known for is my work on Eclair for the Heroc and more recently my port of Eris 2.6.29 kernel source to the Heroc. creating my own board files through a lot of creative debugging and previous struggles with backporting drivers from .29 to .27. at the moment its the only .29 source for the Heroc as Sprint/HTC hasnt even released the .29 source for the device yet. also my work with overclocking the Heroc, but those are just notable contributions to the community ive made. im also the kind of person that is willing to help almost anyone. ask anyone whose ever asked for my help. i believe in the idea of open source and helping others. i also believe in giving credit where credit is due. or at least giving it the boyscout effort anyhow i cant promise ill be ablee to make ur EVO turn into a skynet and cleanup the oil spill in the Gulf. but i can promise that ill damn sure try. im not one to be told it cant be done, nor will i ever except that statement unless it can be proven without a shadow of a doubt (btw its pretty hard to prove to me )
anyhow im looking forward to root, as we need that first and for most. im happy to know we got some awesome devs here and coming soon.
as a single developer i am nothing. but together we can have everything.
toastcfh said:
im well... toastcfh been through a lot with linux for sure. it all started with my old Dell Axim X50. i began working on linux for that device before android was a real deal. then i got a HTC Diamond and did a lot of kernel work for the support of linux on it and other HTC devices. got my HTC Heroc by a streak of luck and smooth talking for free (sprint can be dumb) . anyhow, on the Heroc i managed to be a big part of root,porting and development for it. the main things im known for is my work on Eclair for the Heroc and more recently my port of Eris 2.6.29 kernel source to the Heroc. creating my own board files through a lot of creative debugging and previous struggles with backporting drivers from .29 to .27. at the moment its the only .29 source for the Heroc as Sprint/HTC hasnt even released the .29 source for the device yet. also my work with overclocking the Heroc, but those are just notable contributions to the community ive made. im also the kind of person that is willing to help almost anyone. ask anyone whose ever asked for my help. i believe in the idea of open source and helping others. i also believe in giving credit where credit is due. or at least giving it the boyscout effort anyhow i cant promise ill be ablee to make ur EVO turn into a skynet and cleanup the oil spill in the Gulf. but i can promise that ill damn sure try. im not one to be told it cant be done, nor will i ever except that statement unless it can be proven without a shadow of a doubt (btw its pretty hard to prove to me )
anyhow im looking forward to root, as we need that first and for most. im happy to know we got some awesome devs here and coming soon.
as a single developer i am nothing. but together we can have everything.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes! youre getting an evo 4g! we're going to have a nice group of devs here ..i having a feeling toast is going to be the one to port froyo
Cheers to all the great devs speaking out. I've been watching the android game from the sidelines since the G1... I've been a palm loyalist for the longest time, but I'm finally dropping the Pre to jump onthe EVO.
Can't wait to get into customs roms (bleh to Sense, hoping for vanilla froyo).
I'll be everyone's testpig, I promise
Hey guys, I'm Kyle. Currently a computer science major at Berkeley. I haven't really messed around with Android before, but I attended I/O and received an Evo. I really want to get this thing rooted, but I have no idea where to even start. If anybody has some pointers, that would be great.
Happy hacking
Adam / apristel - Live in Green Bay, WI, 15yr computer tech, mostly windoze and linux.
Started phone hacking when the RAZR came out. I helped get modmymoto.com going and spent alot of time being a mod there. I also created some very popular roms aka monsterpacks for the GSM V3 RAZR, then moved to the V6 MAXX....few years later got onto the WM Scene, got a TP and eventually a TP2. I made personal roms, never shared them, but I shared tons of hacks and cabs I made. I got sick of WM and got a moment and a hero. ..now the EVO in a few days.
I'm willing to put in what I can, I know I'm not at the level of you linux pro's but I'm not scared to try anything.
Glad to see familiar names here - this should be an exciting time. Glad to share it with you fellas.
Welcome me in!
I've done a lot of themes for HTC devices throughout the years. I've owned mainly windows mobile devices, such as i930, Apache, Titan, Touch Diamond, Touch Pro, and the Touch Pro 2. I've always been flashing ROM's and helping ROM dev's with hexing things, changing some layouts here and there, registry edits and of course testing it before it went public. I also host all this stuff online for free since I HATE countdown sites for a download.
I helped with MightyROM themes and we had over 7TB of data pulled from the servers, which is pretty amazing, but I'm all Android now!
I hope to learn Android quickly and hope that some of my tools will also work with it. I have good hosting capabilities if a dev needs it, and I'm more then willing to help. I've done work for over 10+ cooks, on over 8 different devices since 2003.
Background: BSCE, Machine Language on MIPS, x86 / arm / mot / att assembly, C/++ on Posix and Win32. PIC / HC11 system design. GCC cross compiling. Have a JTAG, digital storescope, and an HP protocol analyzer. Been using Linux exclusively at home since '99.
Projects:
- Open source contributor on a few Linux projects (mainly device driver / interface development)
- Helped with the Agenda Vr3 (Snow rom)
- Hacked around with the IPAQ Linux (hardware and software)
- Helped with the Zaurus FBVnc effort
- Helped with the IOpener hack / USB problems
- Helped with the EPOD Windows CE hack / drivers
- Helped with various efforts on the Palm Pre
Future Projects:
- Root (someone will probably beat me to this)
- WebKit over HDMI (not sure where it stands on launch day)
- BT HID Keyboard (sounds like we need some back porting here)
- BT HID Mouse (virgin territory from what I have seen)
- Video recording bitrate (fun project on the side)
The EVO is my first android phone, not my first HTC though. So hopefully I can help a little bit here and there.
Hello,
I work with a small company and develop everything from boards to firmware to full-blown desktop applications for interfacing with different sensors and devices.
I've started at both ends of the computer world and am working my way towards the middle. On one hand I know my way around assembler (although I prefer C...) and write firmware for AVRs and PIC microcontrollers and on the other I'm a fluent .Net developer and have built some pretty complex .Net applications, some PHP applications, and fiddled around with the Google web toolkit.
I've reverse engineered hardware before but nothing close to the complexity of the EVO. I've never developed for Android before but I'm eager to break out the SDK and learn. I have some limited Java experience (my philosophy is once you know one managed language you know them all and I have some extensive experience with it's cousin, C#).
Very eager to start tearing into the EVO and Android system and see if I can't contribute to the effort to root and expand this device!
I've never been a huge contributor to a community effort but I hope to change that in the coming years and see if I can't contribute something back to the communities I have learned so much from!
I'll be getting my EVO June 4th
Relative rookie here in terms of mobile devices. I've put together a few custom WinMo ROMs for co-workers and myself. I've quite a few devices, but currently have the ones in my sig. I'm a professional computer geek. I write apps in C++, various .NET, PHP, etc. and work primarily with server systems (Windows, Linux, Solaris, etc.).
Looking forward to contributing to the Android world soon. Lots of great stuff here.
Sorry for noob question (and PLEASE DONT FLAME ME BECAUSE OF THIS) but will roms/kernels for other devices work with the incredible? just wondering\
AND PLEASE, IF YOU THINK I AM A COMPLETE IDIOT FOR POSTING THIS THEN JUST KEEP IT TO YOURSELF
pretty sure they won't or people would be posting about which ones worked well and which ones didnt.
i think a rom has to have a certain amount of customization for the actual device it is going to be loaded on before it will work.
JustinD2473 said:
pretty sure they won't or people would be posting about which ones worked well and which ones didnt.
i think a rom has to have a certain amount of customization for the actual device it is going to be loaded on before it will work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you
How is your froyo port going to work if you didn't know this? Just wondering.
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App
grape ape---i did know, just confirmiing
rr12106 said:
will roms/kernels for other devices work with the incredible? just wondering
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, if you try to flash a rom or kernel made for another device you can brick your phone.
Captchunk said:
No, if you try to flash a rom or kernel made for another device you can brick your phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Or get stuck in boot loops
TNS201 said:
Or get stuck in boot loops
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
or explode in a ball of flame...
oh wait... that was mixing gasoline with new roms... and fire...
But yea, should probably avoid flashing roms for other devices without properly porting them.
Never flash a ROM that was meant for another device. You risk not being able to use the phone again.
And if anyone were to flame you for posting this questions they'd take a lot of crap from a lot of people for being a douche.
Don't ever be afraid to post a question
hexto said:
And if anyone were to flame you for posting this questions they'd take a lot of crap from a lot of people for being a douche.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Usually this is true, but the OP knew he was risking flame because he's claimed in other threads to be an experienced in building ROMs and knew how to port Froyo to the Incredible.
That doesn't really mesh well with his noob question here.
Reported. This again BELONGS IN GENERAL...man the second post in like 3 hours to be in the wrong section..
elborak said:
Usually this is true, but the OP knew he was risking flame because he's claimed in other threads to be an experienced in building ROMs and knew how to port Froyo to the Incredible.
That doesn't really mesh well with his noob question here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
However, he knows, as well as we, that he was over exaggerating on his original claims. We did encourage him to ask questions and learn, can't flame him for making an effort to go down the right path, ask questions, learn, experiment. I'd rather him ask questions, then post falsified claims of froyo builds etc. Much rather.
CaptainTaco said:
We did encourage him to ask questions and learn, can't flame him for making an effort to go down the right path, ask questions, learn, experiment. I'd rather him ask questions, then post falsified claims of froyo builds etc. Much rather.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True. Very true.
Thread moved to General.
rr12106 said:
Sorry for noob question (and PLEASE DONT FLAME ME BECAUSE OF THIS) but will roms/kernels for other devices work with the incredible? just wondering\
AND PLEASE, IF YOU THINK I AM A COMPLETE IDIOT FOR POSTING THIS THEN JUST KEEP IT TO YOURSELF
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've watched your posts, I know a few folks who are ambitious and think this whole "programming thing" is easy. I'll try to make this simple.
Think of it like this... I compiled an ultra small Kernel of Linux, I only compiled it for a specific computer so I built as much as I could for this specific computer into the kernel, AMD MP, Intel GPU and northbridge, USB 2.0... this way I didn't have to load Modules, it was part of the kernel.
When you install Unix, old school anyway, you are prompted for computer specs so it knows which pre-compiled kernel to select (AMD versus i586 versus i386... etc.) to run the best on your machine. These days it autodetects and makes it easy.
Android is a form of *nix so behaves the same... manufactures compile kernels specific to their devices so that they perform better.
Now, If I used an old Kernel that didn't support USB2 and only supported USB1 then I would be running slow at USB1 or would have to compile without USB at all and load a module that enabled support for USB2...
Android versions are being released with updated kernels for greater support of a wider variety of devices at the kernel level, less modules to load means a faster machine. Some functions still work better with poer saving setups as a module (802.11b/g/n for instance will almost always be a module).
"ROM" which means Read Only Memory are copies of modified kernels from the same device. If I copied the kernel from my machine to another it wouldn't work unless it was identical specs, even one item off and you get kernel dumps, it doesn't know how to talk to your hardware.
Get an idea of what is involved in compiling a kernel here: http://www.linuxforums.org/forum/linux-kernel/55612-mini-howto-compile-linux-kernel-2-6-a.html
I hope this helps you to see that even someone who knows BSD, Linux and Unix... with multiple certifications for Linux (and countless other platforms) and more than 20 years as an engineer... I won't touch making a ROM or trying to modify the bootloader. I wait for the people who know Android's OS, the way it's built, the way it functions... I allow these geniuses to build cool ROMs. I send them donations for their time as some have sent me donations on other forums for my time on other subjects.
It's not as easy as dropping "som 1337 romz" into some folder and presto, "i'z rokn FroYo homz"... it's so much more than that. Someone has to compile the kernel and get the hardware working... it's just easier to wait for the manufacturer to release an update and then find a way to gain root access to do what we want with it.
Additional note:
Check the latest kernel version of Linux here: http://www.kernel.org/
Go into settings and see what version your Doid's Kernel is.
I am going on a limb here but I'm pretty sure there is a correlation.
compnird said:
It's not as easy as dropping "som 1337 romz" into some folder and presto, "i'z rokn FroYo homz"... it's so much more than that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LMAO!! Nice explanation, though.
compnird said:
I've watched your posts, I know a few folks who are ambitious and think this whole "programming thing" is easy. I'll try to make this simple.
Think of it like this... I compiled an ultra small Kernel of Linux, I only compiled it for a specific computer so I built as much as I could for this specific computer into the kernel, AMD MP, Intel GPU and northbridge, USB 2.0... this way I didn't have to load Modules, it was part of the kernel.
When you install Unix, old school anyway, you are prompted for computer specs so it knows which pre-compiled kernel to select (AMD versus i586 versus i386... etc.) to run the best on your machine. These days it autodetects and makes it easy.
Android is a form of *nix so behaves the same... manufactures compile kernels specific to their devices so that they perform better.
Now, If I used an old Kernel that didn't support USB2 and only supported USB1 then I would be running slow at USB1 or would have to compile without USB at all and load a module that enabled support for USB2...
Android versions are being released with updated kernels for greater support of a wider variety of devices at the kernel level, less modules to load means a faster machine. Some functions still work better with poer saving setups as a module (802.11b/g/n for instance will almost always be a module).
"ROM" which means Read Only Memory are copies of modified kernels from the same device. If I copied the kernel from my machine to another it wouldn't work unless it was identical specs, even one item off and you get kernel dumps, it doesn't know how to talk to your hardware.
Get an idea of what is involved in compiling a kernel here: http://www.linuxforums.org/forum/linux-kernel/55612-mini-howto-compile-linux-kernel-2-6-a.html
I hope this helps you to see that even someone who knows BSD, Linux and Unix... with multiple certifications for Linux (and countless other platforms) and more than 20 years as an engineer... I won't touch making a ROM or trying to modify the bootloader. I wait for the people who know Android's OS, the way it's built, the way it functions... I allow these geniuses to build cool ROMs. I send them donations for their time as some have sent me donations on other forums for my time on other subjects.
It's not as easy as dropping "som 1337 romz" into some folder and presto, "i'z rokn FroYo homz"... it's so much more than that. Someone has to compile the kernel and get the hardware working... it's just easier to wait for the manufacturer to release an update and then find a way to gain root access to do what we want with it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks...that helped alot
Sent from my Incredible using XDA App
Let me start by saying I'm fairly new to Android, and that this probably should go in a general Android forum, but since I'm a Fascinate user, this seems appropriate to me. I've searched, but haven't found a real explanation, and I'm not one to take things as fact without a reasonable explanation.
So it seems like everyone is waiting for an official 2.2 release for the Fascinate, flashing 2.1 ROMs but not capable of upgrading to 2.2+; but I'm wondering why we can't just compile our own OS for our phones? Android is a Linux-like OS, and I know Linux users would never stay on an old version if a newer (better?) version was available. I'm talking down-and-dirty tweak-every-option-by-hand Slackware here. Is the source available for download? If so, why can't we do something with it? Is something in the phone completely locked and unhackable? Is it the fear of having a $500 paperweight? Is it difficult to regain Verizon network connectivity?
Again, forgive the noob question, and thanks in advance for any help you can give me!
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=792986
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=883004
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=882946
There is currently work being done by jt, birdman, and the other skew of developers trying to develop a working AOSP version of 2.2/2.3. The biggest struggle that they have encountered was the RIL (Radio Interface Layer) binaries. Samsung produced some bogus complex proprietary binaries with no properly working source code. Because this phone is CDMA and not GSM, we can't simply use galaxy s files.
Anyways, the point is that there is work being done to bring it to our phone. They have a working AOSP 2.1 that is currently in alpha stage. Jt basically built his own RIL for this phone to get it working.
If this RIL works, we may end up with 2.3 sooner than later.
eulipion2 said:
Let me start by saying I'm fairly new to Android, and that this probably should go in a general Android forum, but since I'm a Fascinate user, this seems appropriate to me. I've searched, but haven't found a real explanation, and I'm not one to take things as fact without a reasonable explanation.
So it seems like everyone is waiting for an official 2.2 release for the Fascinate, flashing 2.1 ROMs but not capable of upgrading to 2.2+; but I'm wondering why we can't just compile our own OS for our phones? Android is a Linux-like OS, and I know Linux users would never stay on an old version if a newer (better?) version was available. I'm talking down-and-dirty tweak-every-option-by-hand Slackware here. Is the source available for download? If so, why can't we do something with it? Is something in the phone completely locked and unhackable? Is it the fear of having a $500 paperweight? Is it difficult to regain Verizon network connectivity?
Again, forgive the noob question, and thanks in advance for any help you can give me!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You obviously have not searched hard enough, as this has been discussed in many places. I would suggest you start by searching this forum (edit: or seeing the links and posts above).
I will say, however, that recent achievements by (edit: the developers mentioned above) have made your suggestion quite possible. If you want to get a taste of what is to come, see the aosp alpha sticky located in the development section. The rom still has bugs, but it is a giant step forward for the Fascinate.
Sent from my Galaxy-S Fascinate
Florynce said:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=792986
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=883004
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=882946
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
^^^^^
10char
I must add/point out that the work these guys are doing could easily pave the way for Cyanogenmod- and other well-featured roms to be compiled/ported and used on Fascinate as well.
I've read the above links, but they didn't really quite answer my question. I guess I'm wondering why a Linux-based OS isn't acting/being treated like a Linux-based OS.
Let's say I go out and buy a new computer today. I want to put Linux on it. I get the machine home, download my distro of choice and make an install cd. As I'm installing, I configure the installation either for my specific hardware or I can use a generic profile if my hardware isn't listed.
Now say a new version of the Linux kernel comes out. I can upgrade without having to wait for a version for my hardware. Or if I install MyDistro v1 when I get my machine, and MyDistro v2 comes out the next day, I don't have to wait for someone to develop a version to work with my hardware.
So my question is more of a why can't we upgrade our distro like other Linux variants? Is it because there's no generic replacement for the Samsung RIL? If I were to download the source and do a generic build, or even a specific one, I wouldn't be able to install it because...?
Sorry to be a pain, but I genuinely have no clue. Again, thank you for the insight!
2.2 will boot on the I500 just nothing works. If you would like to help http://opensource.samsung.com/
The source code can be found there. Please feel free to help the development along.
I suggest you read through the reply's to your question and pay special note to those bringing up the RIL as that seems to be the biggest hurdle right now.
I think maybe the answer you are looking for is that it is possible to do it, it's just extremely difficult because Samsung's open source is very shoddy and isn't based on AOS, which is what is used for most other phones.
Since the developers don't have a build that works, they have to work from the ground up with AOS and get every last feature on the fascinate working without using Samsung's code (TouchWiz, widgets, etc).
The links they gave you explain most of it but you have to sift through the posts. There is a dev named jt (amongst others) who is working on a ROM that is upgradable based on AOSP and it looks very promising.
edit: It's also worth noting that when I say "not based on AOS" I mean that it is proprietary software used by Samsung-only phones and is not coded by Google. It still, of course, is based on Android OS. It would be akin to a ROM coded by Samsung for their phones rather than generic ROMs that could be downloaded by other phones.
Perfect, thanks!
Try thinking of it as buying an Ubuntu laptop from dell. Sure its " Ubuntu" but not stock. It so full of bloat and badly written drivers that aren't supplied openly for the user that it would be hell trying get the latest version of ubuntu to run on it.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
For clarification.... so I can wrap my brain around this. Is this situation kinda like having bought a new computer that's running an os, but has no installed device drivers and nowhere to download them from, so they have to be written by hand?
Edit: that last post came thru while I was writing this one, I think it basically answers my question...
So what the devs on here are trying to do is develop a "generic" profile that can work on our phone (as well as others?), creating a solid base to allow users to upgrade and change at-will without having to wait for official releases?
See, that's the part I'm having a hard time with. No generic profile built into the OS to use in the absence of a hardware specific one?
LoverBoyV said:
Try thinking of it as buying an Ubuntu laptop from dell. Sure its " Ubuntu" but not stock. It so full of bloat and badly written drivers that aren't supplied openly for the user that it would be hell trying get the latest version of ubuntu to run on it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
On a sidenote, I bought a Dell netbook witih Ubuntu. Didn't waste time with Ubuntu, but I chose it because I didn't want MS to get money from a license fee. Installed Mac OS X on it the day it arrived
Ya know, I tried to do the same thing with my inspiron 1525 notebook, with snow leopard 10.6.3 since I have a spare hard drive. Spent a whole day with numerous guides, trying this n that. Got it to actually boot to the desktop once, bit as I was putting the drivers in, it went into KP and from that point on, I could never even reinstall back to the desktop again.
Well, Samsung is giving us a simple/reliable update to Froyo with unique functionality, as soon as possible.
Source: (Twitter, About 12pm 1/2/2011 from Samsungtweets via Cotweet - http://twitter.com/Samsungtweets/samsung-usa )
Samsungtweets We are working to make the Android 2.2/Froyo upgrade available to all U.S Galaxy S owners as soon as possible.
Samsungtweets We want Galaxy S owners to have simple/reliable upgrade. We r running tests due to complexity/unique functionality
EDIT: gave more specific time and source of tweets. Post is meant to be objective, without definition of ASAP for this context.
Swyped w/ XDA App. When in doubt, mumble.
soba49 said:
Well, Samsung is giving us a simple/reliable update to Froyo with unique functionality, as soon as possible.
Source (Twitter, 6 hours ago):
Samsungtweets We are working to make the Android 2.2/Froyo upgrade available to all U.S Galaxy S owners as soon as possible.
Samsungtweets We want Galaxy S owners to have simple/reliable upgrade. We r running tests due to complexity/unique functionality
Swyped w/ XDA App. When in doubt, mumble.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not sure if this is meant to be funny or not haha. Are those recent tweets?
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
They seem to post the same things over and over, of course this is also because people constantly ask when is froyo coming, and every time they say there is no definite date. It is coming soon that that is all they will say; yelling, moaning and crying isn't gonna make it come any sooner, just sit back and it will eventually come.
Hello,
This was brought up in another thread that is now locked.This post asked the question.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=11287492&postcount=40
and this is the blog post by Cyanogen
http://www.cyanogenmod.com/home/a-note-on-unofficial-ports-and-how-to-get-it-right
From what I can make from the blog post that Cyanogen put up on the CM website the Epic 4g as well as the other Galaxy S CM ports are not backed by Cyanogen because they do not go through the normal chain of how they add their code into their source code tree.The Galaxy S CM github has many changes to the stock android code that could possible and probably does break the code from being compiled for other phones. The framework is modified to work with the Samsung RIL that our phones use. The CM team will make additions to the stock android code not modifiy the stock code itself. So from my understanding of thing this is why Cyanogen does not consider what the CMSGS team has done as a part of the mainline CM code base. I believe this goes for all the Galaxy S phones not just the Epic.
Does being backed by the CM team make it get done any quicker? If so....
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
Being backed by the Cm team would definitely speed up the porting process, Cyanogen had the Evo Release Client up and running in a little over a month without source
So its a matter of pulling the source together and prperly placing it into their source control so their build bot can properly dov what build bots do...build...then CM helps with the port process?
If I think I'm following that right...somone better start uploading code to Cyanogens t&c's(terms and conditions) so we can have some epic awesomesauce.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
Most importantly, no major hardware functionality should be broken.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What this statement implies is that no Cyanogenmod port is ever gonna be official right away; there's always an in-progress period where major functions are broken. Regardless of other issues, that's where our Epic port is at right now and part of the reason why it's not official.
Poryhack said:
What this statement implies is that no Cyanogenmod port is ever gonna be official right away; there's always an in-progress period where major functions are broken. Regardless of other issues, that's where our Epic port is at right now and part of the reason why it's not official.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True but there is code that is changed in the Galaxy S port that doesn't get changed at all in other CM ports as far as I know.
If we had HTC Epic's instead of Samsung Epic's and still identical devices... CM would officially support the Epic.
Period. They can say whatever they want but we all know this to be the case. You can't tell me Samsung changes their code that much more then HTC... last I checked Sense was a much more in depth overall to the underlying OS then Touchwiz is.. but maybe not.
The thing is, HTC uses the same hardware across the board (snapdragon processors, same camera etc.) which makes Rom ports much much easier to pull off, whereas the Hummingbird in the Galaxy S is only in the Galaxy S and only the Unlocked Galaxies and Gsm have froyo source so far.
Thanks for osting this skeeter
Android Creative Syndicate- From spontaneous ingenuity, comes creative brilliance
063_XOBX said:
The thing is, HTC uses the same hardware across the board (snapdragon processors, same camera etc.) which makes Rom ports much much easier to pull off, whereas the Hummingbird in the Galaxy S is only in the Galaxy S and only the Unlocked Galaxies and Gsm have froyo source so far.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The changes in the code have nothing at all to do with the cpu its all for the radio which even having froyo source will not help a bit with.Its all in the way the code changes were done. Rather then adding to the base code in CM the code was directly changed which is what Cyanogen has an issue with doing so basically could and probably has broken the radio code for other cdma phones, I don't know what or if any of the code in the frameworks was changed for the gsm Galaxy S phones so I can't say for sure that it the source from the CMSGS github wouldn't work on another GSM phone I only know that changes were made to get it working on the Epic and Fascinate.I don't think what the CMSGS team did was wrong they did what they had to do to get things working and from the time I spent working on it it didn't seem like there was much input from the CM team at all but that was probably happening in another irc channel that I was not invited into if they were involved.I was hoping that the Galaxy S would have had more interest from the CM team as a whole I know a phone or two was collected and donated to at least one dev and i also heard that Koush was supposed to take over the Captivate port of CM I am not sure if that ever happened or not but the Epic and Fascinate were from the beginning the red headed step children of the Galaxy S line it really is too bad that there wasn't for developers around to help work on it and make an offical Cyanogen backed CM port.I blame it all on the Evo personally if the Epic came out first it would be the Epic sporting all the kernel and roms that you can find in the Evo forum instead we are left with a handful or less of devs and a phone that is far from the potential that it has.
This statement brings up one of my biggest questions I have for the epic forums that I have yet to understand. If a lack of devs are the biggest problem for the epic why is it they are not attempting to train anyone else. Here's my point. I have cataloged every bit (and still am) of info I know about themeing android and the samsung epic. I wrote guides breaking down every part of installing the tools necessary and using them so anyone just sitting down with a fresh windows and their first android phone would understand. Where are our dev guides besides "read developer.android.com". I've read it, I've set everything up. I've downloaded source, I've even ran make with success. But it does nothing without proprietary files. How do you plug them in. extract files.sh dont work without cm6 running on my phone. Where do we learn how to edit our build.prop, init.rc, compile drivers and modules. Joey krimm it's a great beginners source but what about updates since the stall between ubuntu 10 64 support, and 64 becoming the default. I feel like not only it's sammy and sprint at fault, but so are devs that arent open with their knowledge. The best gift this community could have gotten in all of this "down time"waiting was time spent learning. Devs stuck waiting on modems and source, start writing and teaching so when you get that source, you'll have a team behind you. That's the spirit of linux and it dont exist on xda's Samsung Epic Development section!
Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk
dreamsforgotten said:
This statement brings up one of my biggest questions I have for the epic forums that I have yet to understand. If a lack of devs are the biggest problem for the epic why is it they are not attempting to train anyone else. Here's my point. I have cataloged every bit (and still am) of info I know about themeing android and the samsung epic. I wrote guides breaking down every part of installing the tools necessary and using them so anyone just sitting down with a fresh windows and their first android phone would understand. Where are our dev guides besides "read developer.android.com". I've read it, I've set everything up. I've downloaded source, I've even ran make with success. But it does nothing without proprietary files. How do you plug them in. extract files.sh dont work without cm6 running on my phone. Where do we learn how to edit our build.prop, init.rc, compile drivers and modules. Joey krimm it's a great beginners source but what about updates since the stall between ubuntu 10 64 support, and 64 becoming the default. I feel like not only it's sammy and sprint at fault, but so are devs that arent open with their knowledge. The best gift this community could have gotten in all of this "down time"waiting was time spent learning. Devs stuck waiting on modems and source, start writing and teaching so when you get that source, you'll have a team behind you. That's the spirit of linux and it dont exist on xda's Samsung Epic Development section!
Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Where's the thank spam? hah.
I've slowly been dipping myself into the Developer 'pool' for the epic if you will..and at first when I started working nobody really ever helped out..they just threw me a link and was like..start reading blah blah blah..
Reading only gets you so far; Imho you learn better when you've got the experience of working first hand with the material you're trying to learn.
dreamsforgotten said:
This statement brings up one of my biggest questions I have for the epic forums that I have yet to understand. If a lack of devs are the biggest problem for the epic why is it they are not attempting to train anyone else. Here's my point. I have cataloged every bit (and still am) of info I know about themeing android and the samsung epic. I wrote guides breaking down every part of installing the tools necessary and using them so anyone just sitting down with a fresh windows and their first android phone would understand. Where are our dev guides besides "read developer.android.com". I've read it, I've set everything up. I've downloaded source, I've even ran make with success. But it does nothing without proprietary files. How do you plug them in. extract files.sh dont work without cm6 running on my phone. Where do we learn how to edit our build.prop, init.rc, compile drivers and modules. Joey krimm it's a great beginners source but what about updates since the stall between ubuntu 10 64 support, and 64 becoming the default. I feel like not only it's sammy and sprint at fault, but so are devs that arent open with their knowledge. The best gift this community could have gotten in all of this "down time"waiting was time spent learning. Devs stuck waiting on modems and source, start writing and teaching so when you get that source, you'll have a team behind you. That's the spirit of linux and it dont exist on xda's Samsung Epic Development section!
Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When it comes to working on CM most of the work that needs to be done is all coding which we have very few if anyone java coders. Also you can use extract-files.sh on a phone running straight DK28 to get the propietary files needed to build CM with.When it comes to everything else most of the devs have taught themselves how to do the things they so by trial and error and alot of reading the internet. I know I have little coding skill so its would be hard to teach someone something you don't know how to do yourself and alot of the other things like putting togther device files to build android even on the google site has no real information on how to do it at all the best way I think is to just compare what the other phones use and piece it together from that.
Yet it still makes me wonder; why no epic/galaxy s support? Virtually every other phone, and even some tablets like the gtab, have CM support and even CM7 support. Even the HTC Hero, with obviously no source code for 2.2 or 2.3 and no official 2.2 ever to be released, has a working build of CM7. Is it pure incompetence of Epic developers? Is it a lack of interest? Is it simply cyanogen not wanting to support galaxy s devices? I really don't know, but I'd really like to.
theimpaler747 said:
Yet it still makes me wonder; why no epic/galaxy s support? Virtually every other phone, and even some tablets like the gtab, have CM support and even CM7 support. Even the HTC Hero, with obviously no source code for 2.2 or 2.3 and no official 2.2 ever to be released, has a working build of CM7. Is it pure incompetence of Epic developers? Is it a lack of interest? Is it simply cyanogen not wanting to support galaxy s devices? I really don't know, but I'd really like to.
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Click to collapse
From what I can see its not that Cyanogen doesn't want to support the galaxy s devices its that it seems they don't give any input to the devs that are working on CM for the galaxy s. They have basically split off from the main CM source tree itself and run their own source tree. It seemed like (and this is from the limited amount I saw on irc) that there was no input from the CM team they just let them work on their own. CM has ways to setup the code so the source tree remains workable across the board on all the devices it supports, the cmsgs team has just taken a different route on things and gone their own route thus making it not backed by cyanogen, was it the right way to do it who knows but it has made all the galaxy s devices redheaded step children in the eyes of Cyanogen and the CM team as a whole by the looks of it. I know from the point of view of having an Epic the major hold up to it is having coders with the proper skills to do the coding in general we had one coder working on it I don't know if he is still involved or not at this point. All I know is to make is a backed by Cyanogen CM port the coding that has been done so far would have to be completely redone in the ways that the rest of the CM team adds code to the CM source tree with as little to no modification of the stock CM code as possible.
Also I would like to add that I am not trying to put anyone down that is working on the CMSGS team they have done CM working on these devices and am in no way bad mouthing the work that has been done. This is just my view on things and why Cyanogen doesn't back the galaxy s CM ports.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk
theimpaler747 said:
Yet it still makes me wonder; why no epic/galaxy s support? Virtually every other phone, and even some tablets like the gtab, have CM support and even CM7 support. Even the HTC Hero, with obviously no source code for 2.2 or 2.3 and no official 2.2 ever to be released, has a working build of CM7. Is it pure incompetence of Epic developers? Is it a lack of interest? Is it simply cyanogen not wanting to support galaxy s devices? I really don't know, but I'd really like to.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, trying to comprehend everything that is going on here, I feel like the CMTeam does not feel the Epic is worth porting to CM7 due to it's delay on a FroYo source, which I am positive would make the Epic's porting much easier.
However, it still makes me wonder why they could not have used 2.1 to port to CM7, as like you said, the Hero has been able to do.
It also confuses me that the Captivate has even been able to run a Gingerbread port (I believe cyanogen) then. I realize that the Captivate has no 4G or a slide or anything, but the fact that they were willing to work off of 2.1 I assume gets me wondering why no one has tried making a CM port for the Epic's 2.1
I am trying to understand this as best as I can, so please forgive me if I seem to be giving false input on this conversation.
Its the time taken to port a phone, combined with the number of phones above yours on their list. The fact is they have a list of other phones they feel like investing their time in over the galaxy s line in general which is even more of a reason all knowledge of development on the Epic should be layed out even in pieces like the rest of the information here. Honestly thinking "leak it to noobnl, then we'll get all the goods" isn't going to cut it. Java coders, ubuntu fanatics who have compiled a few apps, and new people willing to learn should be putting heads together compiling new ****. If we dont start a group effort of making a bone stock aosp froyo altering the existing drivers were not going to be much further with source code. And it should be layed out here irc dont work for everyone.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk
acer1096xxx said:
Well, trying to comprehend everything that is going on here, I feel like the CMTeam does not feel the Epic is worth porting to CM7 due to it's delay on a FroYo source, which I am positive would make the Epic's porting much easier.
However, it still makes me wonder why they could not have used 2.1 to port to CM7, as like you said, the Hero has been able to do.
It also confuses me that the Captivate has even been able to run a Gingerbread port (I believe cyanogen) then. I realize that the Captivate has no 4G or a slide or anything, but the fact that they were willing to work off of 2.1 I assume gets me wondering why no one has tried making a CM port for the Epic's 2.1
I am trying to understand this as best as I can, so please forgive me if I seem to be giving false input on this conversation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But like I said, there's CM7 (Android 2.3 if you don't know) for the HTC hero, with no 2.2 or 2.3 source code. So why not us?
theimpaler747 said:
But like I said, there's CM7 (Android 2.3 if you don't know) for the HTC hero, with no 2.2 or 2.3 source code. So why not us?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Alright, this is what I believe.
The Hero does not have 4G, or a QWERTY keyboard, two things the Epic does have that could make a pure AOSP port more difficult without a source. Also, HTC runs Snapdragon throughout the whole system, making tweaks a lot more simpler than SGS's Hummingbird Processor, which uses something else (I can't remember) with their system as well.
The last part I'm not sure if that makes a big deal or not, since I have seen a (what I think) CM7 port for the Samsung Captivate, so it may simply be because of 4G and the QWERTY keyboard.
I see what you're saying though. I guess the CMTeam should have no problem making a CM7 port based off of the Epic's 2.1 source...maybe they're just waiting because 2.2 might make it easier and supposedly 2.2 is coming soon so there'd be no point in starting now...otherwise I have no clue.
acer1096xxx said:
Alright, this is what I believe.
The Hero does not have 4G, or a QWERTY keyboard, two things the Epic does have that could make a pure AOSP port more difficult without a source. Also, HTC runs Snapdragon throughout the whole system, making tweaks a lot more simpler than SGS's Hummingbird Processor, which uses something else (I can't remember) with their system as well.
The last part I'm not sure if that makes a big deal or not, since I have seen a (what I think) CM7 port for the Samsung Captivate, so it may simply be because of 4G and the QWERTY keyboard.
I see what you're saying though. I guess the CMTeam should have no problem making a CM7 port based off of the Epic's 2.1 source...maybe they're just waiting because 2.2 might make it easier and supposedly 2.2 is coming soon so there'd be no point in starting now...otherwise I have no clue.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think we also have 'limited functionality' w/ 2.1 as far as the phone's full capability.
2.2 will unlock some hidden potential IMO. Could be the reason why all the hubbub to 'wait for 2.2'.. again, just speculating.
Hi, don't know if this should be here or in a development thread.
My question is, and I know they are very important to this community etc
Why do we need devs?
What I mean is why do the original developers of the software, such as Google, leave it at such a bad state.
When XDA dev's get hold of it, their's no limit to what it can do.
E.g. Network mods, speaker mods, speed mods, theme's, custom drivers battery mods, heat mods, the list could go on.
Why don't the develops make it as good as it could be before they release it to us?
Some simple tweaks such as the networking ones to improve browsing/download speeds, why don't they just do it in the first place? Rather than limiting their users and therefor creating the need for so many underground developers.
Don't take this in the wrong way devs, I appreciate your work, just want to hear your opinions on why you think original devs leave it at such a state, where it could be deemed unfinished or totally lacking.
The oem thinks what is best for the device while other developer may have other opinions.
Eg, Google may think a kernel running at 1.3ghz is better than 1.6 ghz which Dev may think like wise. Also, the Google wanted promote cloud tech, and hence does not allow otg but Dev can unlock this feature.
Dev are there to do things not permit by company
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
sinple said:
The oem thinks what is best for the device while other developer may have other opinions.
Eg, Google may think a kernel running at 1.3ghz is better than 1.6 ghz which Dev may think like wise. Also, the Google wanted promote cloud tech, and hence does not allow otg but Dev can unlock this feature.
Dev are there to do things not permit by company
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey
Thanks for the reply, and I want this to be more of a discussion than answers
I don't understand why companies do it though.
And OTG is allowed for non-rooted devices. Just some of its features arent, if you get that. Like a mouse and keyboard works un-rooted, by a HDD doesnt.
I'm just curious as to why some of the devs here, such as Faux and Xmoo, havent got jobs at Google so they can teach them a thing or to. They know what the consumer actually wants, and pay attention to the needs of the tech enthusiast.
There is an diference between normal state and improved state. Its better. 1.3ghz processor runing normal and cooler than a 1.6ghz that could get warm and gives some trouble.
Im just glad that its not a locked device giving ours beloved devs the chance to improve it.
Sent from my LG-P500 using xda premium
maztahbr said:
There is an diference between normal state and improved state. Its better. 1.3ghz processor runing normal and cooler than a 1.6ghz that could get warm and gives some trouble.
Im just glad that its not a locked device giving ours beloved devs the chance to improve it.
Sent from my LG-P500 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I see your point
Basically "Better Safe than Sorry" right?
Exactly!
Sent from my LG-P500 using xda premium
How do you not see a need for developers?
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It's because people have preferences. And some people just like to tinker with their stuff.
The basic argumentative of yours seemed to be "if it's good enough, then we only need one". But, see , there is nothing in the world that's "best" enough to outsweep everything else. It's always nice to have options
I wouldn't say the stock rom and kernel is bad or "not enough" so the devs have to step out. I think google guys do a great job on stock rom. It's just nice for us users to have some other choices to play with.
In some sense it's kind of like buying flours. We wouldn't say,"well, if this brand of flours is good enough, we only need one brand in the world. Why so many brands out there?" Because different brands might grow in different places, use different breeds of wheats, have different moistures, use different ways to grind them, therefore different flavors. You simpy can't say anything would be that good that one is enough.
There is no limitation in improvement and imagination, and I think that's what devs here are doing.
The devs do amazing work, if only XDA was a tech company.
I know I won't be popular for saying this but I have tried a lot of different roms on a lot of different devices and in my experience it is best to stick with the stock rom, since custom roms inevitably have flaws which only present themselves at the most inopportune moments.
There's a reason why stock roms ship in the condition they're in; it's because all the variables are tried and tested and because a shed load of time has gone in to developing the software to work perfectly with the hardware. Dev's seem to have a knack of improving the software in some conditions at the expense of breaking it in others.
As an example, I once loaded a very popular custom rom onto a handset because everyone was raving about how good it was. Several days later I was at a wedding and took my handset out to snap some photos, only to realise that the camera didn't work in a certain configuration with this rom. The bug wasn't documented and the result was that I couldn't take any photos.
All too often this sort of thing happens; you'll read threads about the latest and greatest rom and how fast it is etc etc, only to then come across a comment about someone whose wifi keeps disconnecting, or someone whose battery life has halved and so on.
It's a bit like switching to Ubuntu from Windows, Ubuntu is fine if you like tinkering but if you want to get **** done, stick with Windows.
Happy to eat my words if someone recommends a fully working rom which is a genuine improvement over the stock rom.
Development can go on forever. My HTC inspire is two years old, and development is still going forward thanks to great devs (randomblame). Big companies just build for the masses. Devs tweak for us geeks that are always looking for more.
Sent from my Inspire 4G using xda app-developers app
Switchbitch said:
I know I won't be popular for saying this but I have tried a lot of different roms on a lot of different devices and in my experience it is best to stick with the stock rom, since custom roms inevitably have flaws which only present themselves at the most inopportune moments.
There's a reason why stock roms ship in the condition they're in; it's because all the variables are tried and tested and because a shed load of time has gone in to developing the software to work perfectly with the hardware. Dev's seem to have a knack of improving the software in some conditions at the expense of breaking it in others.
As an example, I once loaded a very popular custom rom onto a handset because everyone was raving about how good it was. Several days later I was at a wedding and took my handset out to snap some photos, only to realise that the camera didn't work in a certain configuration with this rom. The bug wasn't documented and the result was that I couldn't take any photos.
All too often this sort of thing happens; you'll read threads about the latest and greatest rom and how fast it is etc etc, only to then come across a comment about someone whose wifi keeps disconnecting, or someone whose battery life has halved and so on.
It's a bit like switching to Ubuntu from Windows, Ubuntu is fine if you like tinkering but if you want to get **** done, stick with Windows.
Happy to eat my words if someone recommends a fully working rom which is a genuine improvement over the stock rom.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
CM7 for the G2 is LOADS better than the stock HTC rom.
Android is a platform of options, our developers help give you more options. They allow you complete control over the hardware YOU purchased, keep you updated on the most recent version of Android, and let you tweak to your heart's desire. Microsoft and Apple lock you in, it's their way or the highway. But Android and it's developers give you the ability to say "I don't like this, and I'm going to change it".
Switchbitch said:
I know I won't be popular for saying this but I have tried a lot of different roms on a lot of different devices and in my experience it is best to stick with the stock rom, since custom roms inevitably have flaws which only present themselves at the most inopportune moments.
There's a reason why stock roms ship in the condition they're in; it's because all the variables are tried and tested and because a shed load of time has gone in to developing the software to work perfectly with the hardware. Dev's seem to have a knack of improving the software in some conditions at the expense of breaking it in others.
As an example, I once loaded a very popular custom rom onto a handset because everyone was raving about how good it was. Several days later I was at a wedding and took my handset out to snap some photos, only to realise that the camera didn't work in a certain configuration with this rom. The bug wasn't documented and the result was that I couldn't take any photos.
All too often this sort of thing happens; you'll read threads about the latest and greatest rom and how fast it is etc etc, only to then come across a comment about someone whose wifi keeps disconnecting, or someone whose battery life has halved and so on.
It's a bit like switching to Ubuntu from Windows, Ubuntu is fine if you like tinkering but if you want to get **** done, stick with Windows.
Happy to eat my words if someone recommends a fully working rom which is a genuine improvement over the stock rom.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
On non nexus devices I would agree. All of the aosp ROMs on my fascinate and d2g had serious issues that really couldn't be overlooked and made the phone unusable on a daily basis.
On the other hand, ROMs on my Galaxy Nexus and Nexus 7 are a huge improvement over stock. CM is always a solid choice.
I haz no sig
I can't believe no one has explicitly mentioned this...Google and other OEMs have a responsibility towards their shareholders and the market, whereas "devs" (like on xda) have no such responsibility; this makes a huge difference in process and result. As an example, theres a hack for the n7 to get the sony bravia engine, which is kinda nice, but there is no way that sony is going to let google do that legally is there? OEMs have to do things proper and legal.
The biggest difference though, is one already alluded to in this thread previous (imo), testing. Now CM actually does go through a LOT of testing and so on, but there is a sense in which Google's (or other OEMs) hands are tied due to deadlines, whilst CM has no such thing. While it is perfectly understandable for CM to go "here is CM10, btw its beta, but have at it" to the whole world after months of testing, I'm sure if Google did that people would be pissed, because Google releases to general market, they have strict deadlines based on internal product cycles and market variables and shareholder crap , but most of all people EXPECT market products to be rock solid, whereas its okay for something like CM to be broken sometimes. The reason n7 runs at 1.3 in stock and not 1.6 like some other ROM is likely because the company that made the processor probably told google something like "based on our testing 1.3 is the safest speed", people OC all the time, even desktops etc, but there is a "this is what it was MEANT to do according to the dudes who made it" thing.
But, at the end of the day there is no such thing as 'best' which is likely the reason we have SO MANY ROMs and not just the one, doing different things.
The devs are here because people like their devices to do different things and think they can make them better, myself I love to tweak things and so do the devs. Myself I just like to run CM10 on my N7, at least until its stable then I may try out the other ROMs. Also without the devs I wouldn't be able to run my CPU at 500 MHz over what its sold at and same thing with the GPU.
Determining when the development is "done" is subjective. And companies can only support their product in a limited time. Therefore, we need developers to continue where they left.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda premium