Database Users

[Q] regarding: Loki + TWRP + Motochopper CASUAL

Hey folks.
I attempted to ask this in the most relevant thread, but as a new user I can not.
My question pertains to the CASUAL root tool for the S4.
Developed by AdamOutler.
Described in the thread "[ROOT[RECOVERY] Loki + TWRP + Motochopper CASUAL-R527b release"
The tool looks pretty amazing.
But I do have some questions.
Please forgive me in advance I am an UBER NEWBIE.
Many of the terms thrown around here are completely foreign to me.
(Yes, I've searched for that knowledge - but perhaps you are underestimating my noobness. )
(Yes, I have read the "[HOW-TO] The All-In-One Root/Backup/Flash Guide - [I337 & I337M]" thread as well... it helped but... yeah still a noob.)
FYI: The only reason I want to root my S4 (AT&T) is so I can remove the crappy bloatware, and also configure the anti-theft/find-phone features of the avast! app.
Ok so on to the questions...
1) Once this is done what's to stop some update from my carrier un-doing it all?
2) If that were to happen how much pain would I be in for?
3) If the only way to protect one's self from this is to somehow disable OS/firmware updates... is the only way to get future OS updates through a ROM?
4) This TWRP thing seems to be a backup/recovery tool?
I gather that it also enable ROMs flashing, etc?
I've read others like "Titanium Backup" because it can freeze/remove the bloatware.
Are they both kinda the same thing?
Will the two conflict?
5) This "Nandroid" is another backup tool?
Am I correct in my understanding that the TWRP leverages nandroid - or are they comepeting solutions.
6) Is Nandroid a system function or some other tool that needs installed?
Thanks a bunch folks!
~Doug

DougYITBOS said:
Hey folks.
I attempted to ask this in the most relevant thread, but as a new user I can not.
My question pertains to the CASUAL root tool for the S4.
Developed by AdamOutler.
Described in the thread "[ROOT[RECOVERY] Loki + TWRP + Motochopper CASUAL-R527b release"
The tool looks pretty amazing.
But I do have some questions.
Please forgive me in advance I am an UBER NEWBIE.
Many of the terms thrown around here are completely foreign to me.
(Yes, I've searched for that knowledge - but perhaps you are underestimating my noobness. )
(Yes, I have read the "[HOW-TO] The All-In-One Root/Backup/Flash Guide - [I337 & I337M]" thread as well... it helped but... yeah still a noob.)
FYI: The only reason I want to root my S4 (AT&T) is so I can remove the crappy bloatware, and also configure the anti-theft/find-phone features of the avast! app.
Ok so on to the questions...
1) Once this is done what's to stop some update from my carrier un-doing it all?
2) If that were to happen how much pain would I be in for?
3) If the only way to protect one's self from this is to somehow disable OS/firmware updates... is the only way to get future OS updates through a ROM?
4) This TWRP thing seems to be a backup/recovery tool?
I gather that it also enable ROMs flashing, etc?
I've read others like "Titanium Backup" because it can freeze/remove the bloatware.
Are they both kinda the same thing?
Will the two conflict?
5) This "Nandroid" is another backup tool?
Am I correct in my understanding that the TWRP leverages nandroid - or are they comepeting solutions.
6) Is Nandroid a system function or some other tool that needs installed?
Thanks a bunch folks!
~Doug
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1) Once this is done what's to stop some update from my carrier un-doing it all?
If you root you will not be able to get updates any longer.
2) If that were to happen how much pain would I be in for?
Its not going to happen because you are rooted.
3) If the only way to protect one's self from this is to somehow disable OS/firmware updates... is the only way to get future OS updates through a ROM?
The only way you will get updates is ODIN back to stock. Again, no worries.
4) This TWRP thing seems to be a backup/recovery tool?
I gather that it also enable ROMs flashing, etc?
I've read others like "Titanium Backup" because it can freeze/remove the bloatware.
Are they both kinda the same thing?
Will the two conflict?
TWRP - is a recovery, so you can perform nandroid backups, and to flash roms, and to restore backups. Nothing more, nothing less.
Titanium Backup is a app you use within the rom, to backup and restore apps with, you can read more on this going to the market, it will explain this app's features and what it does.
They are not the same, 2 different programs, that do 2 different things.
Question 5 & 6 answered in #4 answer.
Hope this helps, kinda down and dirty, try and do some reading on all of the above.
Appreciate the thanks.
Thank you and good luck.

Thanks a bunch TheAxman
You said...
TheAxman said:
1) Once this is done what's to stop some update from my carrier un-doing it all?
If you root you will not be able to get updates any longer.
3) If the only way to protect one's self from this is to somehow disable OS/firmware updates... is the only way to get future OS updates through a ROM?
The only way you will get updates is ODIN back to stock. Again, no worries.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So does the Root tool (in this case the CASUL script by Adam) do something to shut down carrier updates or I need to do something extra?
Also if one were to ODIN back to stock... and get an update... and then re-root...
I assume you could get an old backup from an external storage area and try to get all your "stuff" back?

DougYITBOS said:
Thanks a bunch TheAxman
You said...
So does the Root tool (in this case the CASUL script by Adam) do something to shut down carrier updates or I need to do something extra?
Also if one were to ODIN back to stock... and get an update... and then re-root...
I assume you could get an old backup from an external storage area and try to get all your "stuff" back?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Once you root,, it changes the rom status to custom, so the update see's that and does NOTHING. if you odin back to stock, un-root, you can force updates, but be careful with updates, carriers are patching things so we can not do what we do, and that is to run custom roms on phones THAT WE OWN!
And btw, if this person xBeerdroiDx gives me a thanks, he is saying I did ok... If you seem to have anymore questions, his guide is one of the best....
[HOW-TO] The All-In-One Root/Backup/Flash Guide - [I337 & I337M]
http://forum.xda-developers.com/show....php?t=2314494
Thanks to xBeerdroiDx - For this great Startup Guide

Thanks again!

DougYITBOS said:
Thanks again!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your quite welcome, if you have any other questions, feel free to ask them in the thread I gave you or mine.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2295557

Sorry to hijack the thread, but I figured Axman may know.
In the past on my S2, I would flash a lot of roms. maybe after every 5 or 10 I would odin back to stock, boot it up, re-root, re-twrp, then flash another rom. just to get a very clean slate in a sense.
If I were to do this with the S4, you dont think the ATT update would get pushed in the 30 mins to an hour that the phone is in its stock state, do you? I dont want to get mf3'd.

orlandoxpolice said:
Sorry to hijack the thread, but I figured Axman may know.
In the past on my S2, I would flash a lot of roms. maybe after every 5 or 10 I would odin back to stock, boot it up, re-root, re-twrp, then flash another rom. just to get a very clean slate in a sense.
If I were to do this with the S4, you dont think the ATT update would get pushed in the 30 mins to an hour that the phone is in its stock state, do you? I dont want to get mf3'd.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hehe it could, but highly unlikely, and if you feel that it may happen, do what I do, remove the sim until you get rooted, and then put the sim back in and complete the setup. Your not going to get calls in that time period anyways.
Good luck.
btw..this is cool, name please.
Dog: [Pitbull Sharpei Mix] Rom: Stock

TheAxman said:
hehe it could, but highly unlikely, and if you feel that it may happen, do what I do, remove the sim until you get rooted, and then put the sim back in and complete the setup. Your not going to get calls in that time period anyways.
Good luck.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ah good idea. i suppose airplane mode would accomplish the same thing as well

orlandoxpolice said:
Sorry to hijack the thread, but I figured Axman may know.
In the past on my S2, I would flash a lot of roms. maybe after every 5 or 10 I would odin back to stock, boot it up, re-root, re-twrp, then flash another rom. just to get a very clean slate in a sense.
If I were to do this with the S4, you dont think the ATT update would get pushed in the 30 mins to an hour that the phone is in its stock state, do you? I dont want to get mf3'd.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm just throwing my limited experience out. I have never went back to stock via Odin simply to get a "clean slate." Completing a full wipe including a system format in recovery will be sufficient for a clean OS. I would reserve Odin flashing as a last resort for when problems aren't being remedied by a full wipe and format via recovery.

CamFlawless said:
I'm just throwing my limited experience out. I have never went back to stock via Odin simply to get a "clean slate." Completing a full wipe including a system format in recovery will be sufficient for a clean OS. I would reserve Odin flashing as a last resort for when problems aren't being remedied by a full wipe and format via recovery.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you sir, appreciate the help, and yes, good idea.

TheAxman said:
Thank you sir, appreciate the help, and yes, good idea.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
might have been a placebo effect for me, lol.

TheAxman said:
1) Once this is done what's to stop some update from my carrier un-doing it all?
If you root you will not be able to get updates any longer.
2) If that were to happen how much pain would I be in for?
Its not going to happen because you are rooted.
3) If the only way to protect one's self from this is to somehow disable OS/firmware updates... is the only way to get future OS updates through a ROM?
The only way you will get updates is ODIN back to stock. Again, no worries.
4) This TWRP thing seems to be a backup/recovery tool?
I gather that it also enable ROMs flashing, etc?
I've read others like "Titanium Backup" because it can freeze/remove the bloatware.
Are they both kinda the same thing?
Will the two conflict?
TWRP - is a recovery, so you can perform nandroid backups, and to flash roms, and to restore backups. Nothing more, nothing less.
Titanium Backup is a app you use within the rom, to backup and restore apps with, you can read more on this going to the market, it will explain this app's features and what it does.
They are not the same, 2 different programs, that do 2 different things.
Question 5 & 6 answered in #4 answer.
Hope this helps, kinda down and dirty, try and do some reading on all of the above.
Appreciate the thanks.
Thank you and good luck.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Correct me if I'm wrong, but its my understanding if you're rooted and still stock the MDL will still update to MF3 unless you either completely flash a custom ROM or rename the OTA files that At&t have on our devices.
where you end up, depends on where you start.
AT&T SGH-I337 32G

lilbigdude1 said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but its my understanding if you're rooted and still stock the MDL will still update to MF3 unless you either completely flash a custom ROM or rename the OTA files that At&t have on our devices.
where you end up, depends on where you start.
AT&T SGH-I337 32G
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
somewhat, but as soon as you root, your phone status is custom correct? therefor how can it update? Yes, it is better to do a custom rom, but you can still stay on MDL and never get updates, freezing the samsung update will work, but I gave the easiest way in his situation.

TheAxman said:
Once you root,, it changes the rom status to custom, so the update see's that and does NOTHING. if you odin back to stock, un-root, you can force updates, but be careful with updates, carriers are patching things so we can not do what we do, and that is to run custom roms on phones THAT WE OWN!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi...I'm another noob with a question about this. I also just used CASUAL to root my phone yesterday. I am definitely rooted but my Device Status actually still shows Official. Following the info in another thread, I used ES File Explorer's Root Manager to rename the wssyncmldm.apk.
Info from: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2268946
The thread was actually written for a previous update, but renaming the apk should still be relevant.
Maybe this was overkill, but...

texasniteowl said:
Hi...I'm another noob with a question about this. I also just used CASUAL to root my phone yesterday. I am definitely rooted but my Device Status actually still shows Official. Following the info in another thread, I used ES File Explorer's Root Manager to rename the wssyncmldm.apk.
Info from: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2268946
The thread was actually written for a previous update, but renaming the apk should still be relevant.
Maybe this was overkill, but...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was just rooted and it showed custom status after, so no updates, you must check the status. just flashing a kernel will change the status, if you are going to root and install a recovery, some things are to go without saying.
Btw, I have learned, that nothing with information is an overkill, if you haven't notice xda is a bunch of peoples ideas and such, and many do not work for others, it is a hit miss.

TheAxman said:
I was just rooted and it showed custom status after, so no updates, you must check the status. just flashing a kernel will change the status, if you are going to root and install a recovery, some things are to go without saying.
Btw, I have learned, that nothing with information is an overkill, if you haven't notice xda is a bunch of peoples ideas and such, and many do not work for others, it is a hit miss.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah...maybe I am referring to the wrong thing, but I was surprised that Settings > More > About Device > Status > Device Status still said "Official" on mine. I know CASUAL succeeded. TWRP is installed, SuperUser is installed. And I was able to use ES File Explorer's Root Manager to change system to R/W and rename the apk. So even though I'm very much an android novice, I'm pretty certain I'm rooted. I don't necessarily plan to flash a rom yet...but since I was still on MDL I wanted to retain the current ability to do so!
Is there some other place that it would show Custom as opposed to Official? That's actually why I went ahead and renamed that file.

texasniteowl said:
Yeah...maybe I am referring to the wrong thing, but I was surprised that Settings > More > About Device > Status > Device Status still said "Official" on mine. I know CASUAL succeeded. TWRP is installed, SuperUser is installed. And I was able to use ES File Explorer's Root Manager to change system to R/W and rename the apk. So even though I'm very much an android novice, I'm pretty certain I'm rooted. I don't necessarily plan to flash a rom yet...but since I was still on MDL I wanted to retain the current ability to do so!
Is there some other place that it would show Custom as opposed to Official? That's actually why I went ahead and renamed that file.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I did not mean to confuse anyone. Yes you did the right thing by renaming the the file. if your device says official then this step is needed. mine said custom. umm i stand corrected fellows..another step is needed. thanks for the oversight. i am only human..im not a animal.

TheAxman said:
I did not mean to confuse anyone. Yes you did the right thing by renaming the the file. if your device says official then this step is needed. mine said custom. umm i stand corrected fellows..another step is needed. thanks for the oversight. i am only human..im not a animal.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if you are paranoid then there are 3 files you can freeze. i cant remember which ones, but one is att update something something, thats all i can remember.
im no help

I think everyone gets the picture.
Sent from my GT-I9505 using xda premium

Towelroot Discussion Thread

Most of us were talking about Towelroot over in Jcase's PIE thread or over in collinjames' thread, but I think it's time it deserves it's own thread.
UPDATE:
@iKrYpToNiTe made the awesome TowelPieRoot which makes this method easier to use. You can still use this thread to root your phone, but I will be using his method from now on. Happy rooting!
Important Links:
Geohot's original post.
Towelroot's Homepage
Mod Strings
What is Towelroot?
Towelroot is a rooting method for most android phones, and it uses an apk to obtain root (dead simple too, push one button, no need for other tools and workarounds). (source)
Why do we use Towelroot in conjunction with PIE?
PIE nor Towelroot disables write protection. Both of them offer a temporary root that has to be applied after a reboot. The advantage to Towelroot is that it is an APK that sits on device, so unlike PIE, Towelroot can be run later, non-tethered to a PC, should you have to power off/on. So you use PIE first while tethered and initially rooting, then Towelroot allows you to continue rooting "on the go" in the future without needing a PC.
How does it work with the Moto X?
It works the same as PIE. It gives root access but the device is still write protected. It is also temporary and must be reapplied after a reboot. However, a soft/hot reboot can keep the root access, due to soft/hot reboots only rebooting the graphical Android shell.
What does it work on?
XT1049 - Republic Wireless, not confirmed, should work.
XT1052 - European
XT1053 -T-Mobile US, not confirmed, should work.
XT1055 - US Cellular, not confirmed, should work.
XT1056 - Sprint, not confirmed, should work.
XT1058 - AT&T, Rogers, Claro, Movistar, Vivo, Oi, TIM
XT1060 - Verizon
How do I use this tool?
Remember to apply PIE first!
1. On your device, go to here.It will start to download the .apk
3. On your device, go to Settings>Security>Unknown Sources and tick the box.
4. Run the downloaded apk, tr3.apk
5. Press "welcome to towelroot" 3 times.
6. Replace the last 0 with a 1, due to modstrings.
7. make it ra1n
Your device should now be rooted and you should be able to use apps such as Greenify and Titanium Backup.
Some applications that should work with root, might not work with this method.
Some people have experimented with using Superuser apps, but I have not seen a consistent method to use one.
How are we keeping root after reboots?
We aren't rebooting! Seriously, we soft/hot reboot which allows us to keep root after a graphical reboot. And even if you do reboot, you can always reapply the root with Towelroot. You just need to make sure you have applied jcase's PIE before hand.
Xposed:
jpond83 posted up some instructions in the PIE thread about how to get Xposed to work:
Make sure you have installed PIE before you try to use Xposed or it will NOT work. View jcase's PIE thread for more details.
jpond83 said:
1) install towelroot. Xposed installer, Busybox installer, power menu
2)run towelroot, click "welcome to towelroot", replace 0 with 1, make it rain.
3) run xposed and click install
4) run busybox installer and click install
5) run power menu and click "hot reboot"
6) enjoy root without using a PC.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Current problems/bugs
Some users have problems with soft/hot rebooting. Reapply PIE.
Random reboots.
Warning about using this exploit
Myself or anyone that has helped develop this are not responsible for anything that occurs to your phone by using this method.
As for this thread, feel free to post your experiences with this tool or any supplements to add.

I'm glad this finally has a dedicated thread. Good job OP

I finally got it working. When I installed SuperSU it was lagging. But I kept it off. I even have hkthememanager running with KitKat all white settings from the nexus forum.
Sent from my XT1058 using XDA Free mobile app

The softboot/hot boot issue comes from not having busybox installed.

jpond83 said:
The softboot/hot boot issue comes from not having busybox installed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've installed 3 different Busybox installers:
Busybox by Stephen (Stericson)
Busybox Installer by JRummy Apps Inc.
Busybox X by Robert Nediyakalaparambil [root]
The first and the third one said they installed successfully, but the second one did not.
Even after 2 installations succeeding, I was still unable to soft/hot reboot.
Any ideas?

I use busybox installer with the blue icon. Never had a issue with softboot as long as I install everything in the order I stated in the other thread.

jpond83 said:
I use busybox installer with the blue icon. Never had a issue with softboot as long as I install everything in the order I stated in the other thread.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Guessing that is the Busybox Installer , I just get this when I try to install it. I have root access, but Busybox is not installing.
But when I use Busybox by Stephen, it says it installs correctly, and my Busybox checker says it does too, but Power Menu still won't Hot Reboot.

Have you ran pie root before? It needs to be ran on the device once before for it to work.

jpond83 said:
Have you ran pie root before? It needs to be ran on the device once before for it to work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Replying the PIE exploit has seemed to fix it. Thank you.
Should I add to the original post that you need to install PIE?

dier325 said:
Replying the PIE exploit has seemed to fix it. Thank you.
Should I add to the original post that you need to install PIE?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, its a must. It should only need to be ran once. After that you should never need it again unless you factory reset.

jpond83 said:
Have you ran pie root before? It needs to be ran on the device once before for it to work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wait, so you need to use PIE to make stuff work under towelroot work on the X?
If so, why not just stick with PIE? Why add towelroot?

KidJoe said:
Wait, so you need to use PIE to make stuff work under towelroot work on the X?
If so, why not just stick with PIE? Why add towelroot?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did you read??? You only need to use pie once. After that you can reboot your phone as much as you want and just root with towelroot.

KidJoe said:
Wait, so you need to use PIE to make stuff work under towelroot work on the X?
If so, why not just stick with PIE? Why add towelroot?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Towelroot can work just by itself, but PIE adds some functionality that allows for easier softbooting.

jpond83 said:
Did you read??? You only need to use pie once. After that you can reboot your phone as much as you want and just root with towelroot.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm sorry that it bothers you so much that I have a question I'm asking. But if you must know, YES I READ. I've read this thread, the PIE thread, and Does Towel Root have any potential in the Motorola field?
And if you can read, you would know that you didn't even answer my question of "why use both?". Instead you just sort of flaming me for asking something and said pie only needs to be run once which is already stated very clearly in what I quoted.
What I'm getting at with my question is something that is implied, but not stated.....
It is understood that since neither PIE nor Towelroot disables write protection on locked bootloaders, if you root with either PIE or Towelroot, you need to re-root after power off/on (or "hard" reboot as some are calling it). It appears the advantage to Towelroot is that it is an APK that sits on device, so unlike PIE, Towelroot can be run later, non-tethered to a PC, should you have to power off/on. So you use PIE first while tethered and initially rooting, then whatever it does allows Towelroot APK to continue working properly when "on the go" in the future without needing a PC.
If that is truly the case, then I think that should be highlighted better, and @dier325 should add it to the OP as many are missing that bit of information. It would also cut out some of the frustration by those encountering issues when running PIE again, after they had to power off/on. (as they could use PIE when first setting up, then towelroot if they lose root while away from their PC).
But it does beg a few more questions (at least by someone who is READING all of this, but not using either PIE or TowelRoot)...
Is PIE needed once before Towelroot only if you want Xposed? Or is it always needed once if you ever plan on using Towelroot? (i.e. Are there any cases where Towelroot alone works? like if you only want to block ads or tether. Or must you have used PIE once already, if you want to make use of Towelroot to root at all?)
Must it be done in a certain order? I.e. if you've used towelroot and realized you forgot PIE, can you just run PIE and be good? or must you reboot, use PIE, then use Towelroot again?
What changes are made by PIE that survive power off/on and enable Towelroot to work when trying to use Xposed?
If this information is accurate, can Geohot and Jcase work together on a single solution, and possibly single on device solution for the X?

KidJoe said:
It is understood that since neither PIE nor Towelroot disables write protection on locked bootloaders, if you root with either PIE or Towelroot, you need to re-root after power off/on (or "hard" reboot as some are calling it). It appears the advantage to Towelroot is that it is an APK that sits on device, so unlike PIE, Towelroot can be run later, non-tethered to a PC, should you have to power off/on. So you use PIE first while tethered and initially rooting, then whatever it does allows Towelroot APK to continue working properly when "on the go" in the future without needing a PC.
If that is truly the case, then I think that should be highlighted better, and @dier325 should add it to the OP as many are missing that bit of information. It would also cut out some of the frustration by those encountering issues when running PIE again, after they had to power off/on. (as they could use PIE when first setting up, then towelroot if they lose root while away from their PC).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is a great explanation of why we are using both. I will add a paragraph to the OP that paraphrases what you just said.
KidJoe said:
Is PIE needed once before Towelroot only if you want Xposed? Or is it always needed once if you ever plan on using Towelroot? (i.e. Are there any cases where Towelroot alone works? like if you only want to block ads or tether. Or must you have used PIE once already, if you want to make use of Towelroot to root at all?)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Towelroot alone works, but we've found that some applications (i.e. Xposed, Busybox) don't work unless you have PIE. Using them together allows us to use them.
KidJoe said:
[*]Must it be done in a certain order? I.e. if you've used towelroot and realized you forgot PIE, can you just run PIE and be good? or must you reboot, use PIE, then use Towelroot again?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The method of each one must be done in order but it does not matter which one you apply first to the device. In fact I just had Towelroot running on my device and then applied PIE allowing for Xposed to work.
KidJoe said:
[*]What changes are made by PIE that survive power off/on and enable Towelroot to work when trying to use Xposed?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
PIE allows us to keep Busybox installed on the device which allows us to Soft/hot reboot.
KidJoe said:
[*]If this information is accurate, can Geohot and Jcase work together on a single solution, and possibly single on device solution for the X?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I want to remind everyone that there are very few of us who are using both of these methods together currently. It is fine for these questions to be brought up for the uninitiated. As for them working together, I think Jcase stated that he wants to move away from the X, as well as I think he is on holiday due to his current signature. I don't know about Geohot but some people have created a thread over in the Moto G forum raising some money to buy the device for him after he said he would try to work on it if he had one.

I have jcases pie root on my x and g and i either always soft boot in xposed framework and keep phone on airplane mode when not in use and charge when necessary

KidJoe said:
If that is truly the case, then I think that should be highlighted better, and @dier325 should add it to the OP as many are missing that bit of information. It would also cut out some of the frustration by those encountering issues when running PIE again, after they had to power off/on. (as they could use PIE when first setting up, then towelroot if they lose root while away from their PC).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have added another section to the OP explaining the situation.
cell2011 said:
I have jcases pie root on my x and g and i either always soft boot in xposed framework and keep phone on airplane mode when not in use and charge when necessary
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Adding them together allows you to root without having to use a PC if you do reboot your device, say it dies.

Thanks guys for clearing this up. I think Towel root should be renamed to something less middle east reference and it would be welcomed more.

So basically if we want more functionality with our root, we should do PIE first? I clicked over onto the PIE page but didn't really how it's done. I have towelroot down, but it seems PIE is a good idea to use in combo with towel root. I could be missing something though cause I'm in the XDA app at work.
I do understand though that PIE is a one time thing and we should just use towel root thereafter when we reboot and need to reroot again.
Sent from my XT1060 using XDA Free mobile app

Using PIE in conjunction with Towelroot allows you to use apps such as Xposed.
Sent from my XT1060 using XDA-FORUM, powered by appyet.com

Is there a way to automate the SU Binary update process when flashing a new nightly?

I've been running omni on my Galaxy Nexus (toro) for a while now and am very happy with it overall. I use SuperSU for root, and I've installed its auto backup script to keep it around for ROM updates.
I've read up on how OmniRom is intentionally distributed without root, but I'm curious about the fact that the binary update isn't automated as part of the backup script. It just seems to stick out that it wants to update and reboot every time, despite the effectiveness in automating everything else for ROM updates.
Is this approach strictly necessary? Might there be something I could put together with an addon.d script to placate SuperSU without breaking anything? Or would there be a reasonable feature request for the OmniRom updater script to do something that addon.d scripts can't do, under the premise of "if the user has already rooted, preserve root on the ROM side for future updates"?
Thanks for any info, I'd like to streamline updates but it's a minor thing so I'm mostly just curious about the mechanisms in play.

Move the supersu zip into the flash after ota update folder if you use ota. Else just dont forget to flash it always after the rom

maxwen said:
Move the supersu zip into the flash after ota update folder if you use ota. Else just dont forget to flash it always after the rom
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks, seems to work fine. This was on my eventual to-try list but I wasn't sure if it would completely reset the settings or somesuch.
I also had a peek at the SuperSU installer script and there's a lot going on so I'd need to sit down with it more if I want to pursue my curiosity, but I still don't see why its backup script doesn't handle this the same way. Maybe it's still a WIP, I see that the developer has been busy with it lately. Oh well.

maxwen said:
Move the supersu zip into the flash after ota update folder if you use ota. Else just dont forget to flash it always after the rom
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No need for this, just use SuperSU's "install backup script" feature.
Also, Omni isn't "intentionally disabled without root" - we've done nothing to block root apps or rooting. We just haven't found a solution for integrating root into the ROM that we liked AND would allow for corporate users to use the device.

Entropy512 said:
No need for this, just use SuperSU's "install backup script" feature.
Also, Omni isn't "intentionally disabled without root" - we've done nothing to block root apps or rooting. We just haven't found a solution for integrating root into the ROM that we liked AND would allow for corporate users to use the device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Right, but the whole point is that SuperSU's backup script offers limited functionality in terms of automating updates. The program still wants to update the binary and reboot. I haven't been poking it too hard, but I think that root keeps working just fine if you ignore it. I've just been obliging it because I assume it knows more about itself than I do. It's a pretty minor thing, but fully automated updates are pretty neat for peace of mind. Maxwen's solution just cuts to the core though. Have the updater reflash SuperSU and the whole thing is actually automated with no fuss from the app when it first loads.
On your other point, I said "distributed" not "disabled". Other than the semantic issue I think we're on the same page on all that stuff. Again, I was mostly speculating on why the backup script seems to be limited here, and the fact that Omni is not rooted was just a straw I was grasping at. I'm imaging that in a world where the Omni design philosophy was different and SuperSU came built-in, it wouldn't want to update its binary after flashing an update, so I was really just comparing the hypothetical pre-rooted omni and my assumptions about it to the real-world unrooted omni where there's this odd quirk where the method of preserving root matters ever so slightly.
...although actually now that I've thought about it more, when else would the SuperSU app ever be performing this check and turning a positive? Maybe the only reason it wants to update the binary is because the backup script has some possible but necessary pitfall, so it has a specific function to warn the app about itself, and it's supposed to be a 2-step process. Hmm, I should look at it more closely later.

JoeSyr said:
Right, but the whole point is that SuperSU's backup script offers limited functionality in terms of automating updates. The program still wants to update the binary and reboot. I haven't been poking it too hard, but I think that root keeps working just fine if you ignore it. I've just been obliging it because I assume it knows more about itself than I do. It's a pretty minor thing, but fully automated updates are pretty neat for peace of mind. Maxwen's solution just cuts to the core though. Have the updater reflash SuperSU and the whole thing is actually automated with no fuss from the app when it first loads.
On your other point, I said "distributed" not "disabled". Other than the semantic issue I think we're on the same page on all that stuff. Again, I was mostly speculating on why the backup script seems to be limited here, and the fact that Omni is not rooted was just a straw I was grasping at. I'm imaging that in a world where the Omni design philosophy was different and SuperSU came built-in, it wouldn't want to update its binary after flashing an update, so I was really just comparing the hypothetical pre-rooted omni and my assumptions about it to the real-world unrooted omni where there's this odd quirk where the method of preserving root matters ever so slightly.
...although actually now that I've thought about it more, when else would the SuperSU app ever be performing this check and turning a positive? Maybe the only reason it wants to update the binary is because the backup script has some possible but necessary pitfall, so it has a specific function to warn the app about itself, and it's supposed to be a 2-step process. Hmm, I should look at it more closely later.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Something is strange if SuperSU keeps on wanting to update the binary and reboot - as I don't see this behavior on any of my devices when using the backup script.
I could have sworn you wrote "disabled" - ugh my brain may be more fried than I realized if I'm completely subconsciously altering words as I read.

I have the same issue. It started happening recently, even though I have the backup script installed and had no problems in the past. Probably something changed, app or ROM?

Entropy512 said:
Something is strange if SuperSU keeps on wanting to update the binary and reboot - as I don't see this behavior on any of my devices when using the backup script.
I could have sworn you wrote "disabled" - ugh my brain may be more fried than I realized if I'm completely subconsciously altering words as I read.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No worries. Actually I feel like I must have edited out something critical to my original rambling making any sense because now when I read it back, I'm not really sure where I was going with that particular part of the post, so my context wasn't helping.

paps79 said:
I have the same issue. It started happening recently, even though I have the backup script installed and had no problems in the past. Probably something changed, app or ROM?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm running recent Omni builds on multiple devices, along with the latest SuperSU - no issues here.
Unless maybe it only affects new installations of the backup script. (e.g. doesn't happen if you updated SuperSU since installing the backup script)

Entropy512 said:
I'm running recent Omni builds on multiple devices, along with the latest SuperSU - no issues here.
Unless maybe it only affects new installations of the backup script. (e.g. doesn't happen if you updated SuperSU since installing the backup script)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm also on the latest SuperSU and I have been with Omnirom from early KitKat days with no such issue until now.
Incidentally, I've reverted to the 25th nightly because of this video bug - http://jira.omnirom.org/browse/OMNI-1181 - and still the same issue occurs.
It's strange. :|

After a clean ROM installation the problem is gone.

Root first or update first?

Hello everyone,
My Moto X Pure edition is on the way on the mail. I'm already excited to root it and get twrp on it. However, I believe the phone will come with android lollipop installed, and I should get an option for an OTA update for android 6.0.
My question is: Should I root my phone and install twrp BEFORE receiving the update, or after? I plan to use WinDroid Toolkit to root my phone and install twrp (seems to be the easiest way) so have any of you done it while having 6.0 already installed?

Your phone will most likely arrive with 6.0 pre-installed on it. You can't take an OTA with TWRP installed. I can't answer the WinDroid question.
Edit: It will most likely come with 6.0 already assuming you purchased it from Motorola.

quakeaz said:
Your phone will most likely arrive with 6.0 pre-installed on it. You can't take an OTA with TWRP installed. I can't answer the WinDroid question.
Edit: It will most likely come with 6.0 already assuming you purchased it from Motorola.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks a lot for your help! It's good that the phone will most likely come with MM. Does Motorola also offer an OTA update to 6.0.1?
I wanted to flash a pre-rooted stock-based ROM because I thought it would be easier to get root. Although, my preference really would be to get the stock update, then just root that. The only reason I wanted to flash an already rooted ROM was because it seems kind of tricky to root it haha. Is the systemless root by ivcarlos the easiest way to root MM? Or have you perhaps found another way to root it on MM?
Additionally, just to make sure before I go on with anything: I should first let the clean phone upgrade to android 6.0.1, AFTER that I should unlock the bootloader, followed by installing TWRP and root, correct? @vertigo_2_20
Thank you for any help you can give me!

Henryy97 said:
Thanks a lot for your help! It's good that the phone will most likely come with MM. Does Motorola also offer an OTA update to 6.0.1?
I wanted to flash a pre-rooted stock-based ROM because I thought it would be easier to get root. Although, my preference really would be to get the stock update, then just root that. The only reason I wanted to flash an already rooted ROM was because it seems kind of tricky to root it haha. Is the systemless root by ivcarlos the easiest way to root MM? Or have you perhaps found another way to root it on MM?
Additionally, just to make sure before I go on with anything: I should first let the clean phone upgrade to android 6.0.1, AFTER that I should unlock the bootloader, followed by installing TWRP and root, correct? @vertigo_2_20
Thank you for any help you can give me!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
IIRC, that's how I did it (OTA 6.0.1 > unlock bootloader > flash TWRP > root), though I did miss some things along the way that I only found out about after the fact, so I've included warnings about those thing here. Before I rooted, I read the following (and a LOT more, but these are the primary ones I based how I did it on):
ivcarlos' method, which you mentioned
And this, which is what I followed for rooting, though I don't remember why. I also had to use 2.62-3 as mentioned in the instructions vs 2.65 which is mentioned at the end as verified working, since it didn't work for me.
I ran across this as well, probably when 2.65 didn't work, and there's some good tidbits in there, worth reading through.
I also found this, but only after I finished rooting with the other method, and I didn't have the time to mess with it. I don't know enough to say whether it's really a better method or not, but something worth checking out if you have the time.
Just make sure you backup anything you want to keep (phone log, texts, pictures, etc) before unlocking the bootloader. I recommend SMS Backup & Restore with Titanium Backup as a secondary backup. Then, use fastboot to back up your recovery before flashing TWRP (I didn't know to do this until too late). Also, make sure you back up your /system and /boot partitions (don't need /data, since you're dealing with a freshly wiped phone from unlocking the bootloader, so nothing there to back up) with TWRP (and store the backups on the external SD card and/or your computer) as soon as you get TWRP flashed, before you do anything else.
Remember, anything you do that modifies /system can potentially break the "systemless" aspect of this root, thereby breaking Android Pay as well as the ability to receive OTA updates. Examples of things that might do this are AdAway (there's apparently a systemless file that needs to be flashed before installing it, which I didn't realize until too late, so mine may be broken already) and battery apps like GSam and BetterBatteryStats. I've yet to get an answer on if these really do break it, though. One that definitely will is Xposed, but I just found there's a systemless version, so when I get time I plan on trying that out. I think even if you do break it you can just a) reflash your backup (/recovery, /boot, & /system) then take an OTA and reflash TWRP and re-root, or b) flash the updated partitions from the OTA then reflash recovery and re-root. Of course, any of those things that changed /system (AdAway, Xposed, battery apps, etc), will probably be broken by this, and I believe they're supposed to be uninstalled first and reinstalled after.
I wouldn't doubt if I've screwed something up, so hopefully somebody can correct me on anything I did, as well as provide more information regarding the breaking of systemless.

vertigo_2_20 said:
IIRC, that's how I did it (OTA 6.0.1 > unlock bootloader > flash TWRP > root), though I did miss some things along the way that I only found out about after the fact, so I've included warnings about those thing here. Before I rooted, I read the following (and a LOT more, but these are the primary ones I based how I did it on):
ivcarlos' method, which you mentioned
And this, which is what I followed for rooting, though I don't remember why. I also had to use 2.62-3 as mentioned in the instructions vs 2.65 which is mentioned at the end as verified working, since it didn't work for me.
I ran across this as well, probably when 2.65 didn't work, and there's some good tidbits in there, worth reading through.
I also found this, but only after I finished rooting with the other method, and I didn't have the time to mess with it. I don't know enough to say whether it's really a better method or not, but something worth checking out if you have the time.
Just make sure you backup anything you want to keep (phone log, texts, pictures, etc) before unlocking the bootloader. I recommend SMS Backup & Restore with Titanium Backup as a secondary backup. Then, use fastboot to back up your recovery before flashing TWRP (I didn't know to do this until too late). Also, make sure you back up your /system and /boot partitions (don't need /data, since you're dealing with a freshly wiped phone from unlocking the bootloader, so nothing there to back up) with TWRP (and store the backups on the external SD card and/or your computer) as soon as you get TWRP flashed, before you do anything else.
Remember, anything you do that modifies /system can potentially break the "systemless" aspect of this root, thereby breaking Android Pay as well as the ability to receive OTA updates. Examples of things that might do this are AdAway (there's apparently a systemless file that needs to be flashed before installing it, which I didn't realize until too late, so mine may be broken already) and battery apps like GSam and BetterBatteryStats. I've yet to get an answer on if these really do break it, though. One that definitely will is Xposed, but I just found there's a systemless version, so when I get time I plan on trying that out. I think even if you do break it you can just a) reflash your backup (/recovery, /boot, & /system) then take an OTA and reflash TWRP and re-root, or b) flash the updated partitions from the OTA then reflash recovery and re-root. Of course, any of those things that changed /system (AdAway, Xposed, battery apps, etc), will probably be broken by this, and I believe they're supposed to be uninstalled first and reinstalled after.
I wouldn't doubt if I've screwed something up, so hopefully somebody can correct me on anything I did, as well as provide more information regarding the breaking of systemless.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for your reply! I'll read the links you sent me, although from what I can see the "root done right" is for the nexus 6, and if it works for the moto x pure it doesn't seem to be overall that much beneficial over the systemless root.
What exactly is the effect of breaking the "systemless" aspect of the root? For example, if I install AdAway, what will happen? I didn't really get that from your post.
Perhaps after all this process, I'll write a how-to guide, heh
So according to your experience, SUPERSU 2.62-3 is the adequate version to use for android 6.0.1?
Thanks again!

Henryy97 said:
Thank you for your reply! I'll read the links you sent me, although from what I can see the "root done right" is for the nexus 6, and if it works for the moto x pure it doesn't seem to be overall that much beneficial over the systemless root.
What exactly is the effect of breaking the "systemless" aspect of the root? For example, if I install AdAway, what will happen? I didn't really get that from your post.
Perhaps after all this process, I'll write a how-to guide, heh
So according to your experience, SUPERSU 2.62-3 is the adequate version to use for android 6.0.1?
Thanks again!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My understanding is that breaking it will render Android Pay inoperable and will make it so you can't take an OTA, though as I mentioned, it seems you still can by reverting back, it's just a LOT more work. But again, as I said, I'm not completely sure and I haven't been able to get an answer.
As for the supersu version, it doesn't really matter, because you'll just update it once you're rooted and booted into the OS. I just found that, despite what that post said, 2.65 did not work for me, so I had to flash 2.62-3 which did. Not a big deal, was just a little frustrating and scary when 2.65 didn't work because I was worried that I broke something and that the method wasn't going to work.
Edit: Good catch BTW on the link having to do with the Nexus. I didn't even look at what sub-forum it was in. At least it's one less thing to worry about for now, though I do hope it spreads to more devices, because we could always use more, not to mention better (assuming it is) ways of doing things.

vertigo_2_20 said:
My understanding is that breaking it will render Android Pay inoperable and will make it so you can't take an OTA, though as I mentioned, it seems you still can by reverting back, it's just a LOT more work. But again, as I said, I'm not completely sure and I haven't been able to get an answer.
As for the supersu version, it doesn't really matter, because you'll just update it once you're rooted and booted into the OS. I just found that, despite what that post said, 2.65 did not work for me, so I had to flash 2.62-3 which did. Not a big deal, was just a little frustrating and scary when 2.65 didn't work because I was worried that I broke something and that the method wasn't going to work.
Edit: Good catch BTW on the link having to do with the Nexus. I didn't even look at what sub-forum it was in. At least it's one less thing to worry about for now, though I do hope it spreads to more devices, because we could always use more, not to mention better (assuming it is) ways of doing things.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks. I am aware that you can revert back to lollipop, and do the update from there whenever you want to update to a newer OTA MM update. However, my real question is, what does it mean to break the systemless aspect? I know that it will prevent further OTA updates, but will xposed work as it should, etc? If I am rooting my device, it's really to get xposed. So, if it means that I must revert to an unrooted stock rom everytime I wanna update, then so be it. I just want to make sure that breaking the systemless root aspect will not make the ROM unstable. Will it?

Henryy97 said:
Thanks. I am aware that you can revert back to lollipop, and do the update from there whenever you want to update to a newer OTA MM update. However, my real question is, what does it mean to break the systemless aspect? I know that it will prevent further OTA updates, but will xposed work as it should, etc? If I am rooting my device, it's really to get xposed. So, if it means that I must revert to an unrooted stock rom everytime I wanna update, then so be it. I just want to make sure that breaking the systemless root aspect will not make the ROM unstable. Will it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you'll find all the info you're looking for and more in those links. But in summary, as I said, AFAIK the only consequence is breaking OTAs. It does not prevent you from using xposed, rather xposed is one of the things that breaks it. Systemless is so called because it roots without affecting the /system partition, therefore preventing the breaking of Android Pay and allowing OTAs. Once /system is modified (unclear if at all or just beyond a point), these two will no longer function. So if you "break" the systemless root by doing stuff that modifies /system (i.e. xposed, etc), you basically now have a standard (non-systemless) root, which simply negates the benefits it provides. But as far as I could tell, systemless is the only option anyway, so you just do it since it works and it's easy, then you either are careful not to break it if Pay/OTAs are important to you, or if you don't care about those then you just do whatever you want just as if you were rooted in the traditional way. But as I said, once I get the time, I plan to try out the systemless xposed, though it may not matter since I might have already broken it, but may as well, and maybe it'll mean not having to uninstall it when it comes time to take an OTA. If you play with it and figure it out, let me know.

vertigo_2_20 said:
I think you'll find all the info you're looking for and more in those links. But in summary, as I said, AFAIK the only consequence is breaking OTAs. It does not prevent you from using xposed, rather xposed is one of the things that breaks it. Systemless is so called because it roots without affecting the /system partition, therefore preventing the breaking of Android Pay and allowing OTAs. Once /system is modified (unclear if at all or just beyond a point), these two will no longer function. So if you "break" the systemless root by doing stuff that modifies /system (i.e. xposed, etc), you basically now have a standard (non-systemless) root, which simply negates the benefits it provides. But as far as I could tell, systemless is the only option anyway, so you just do it since it works and it's easy, then you either are careful not to break it if Pay/OTAs are important to you, or if you don't care about those then you just do whatever you want just as if you were rooted in the traditional way. But as I said, once I get the time, I plan to try out the systemless xposed, though it may not matter since I might have already broken it, but may as well, and maybe it'll mean not having to uninstall it when it comes time to take an OTA. If you play with it and figure it out, let me know.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Once again, thanks. I reached the limit of thanks I can give for today, haha. I'm reading up much more on the process, etc. Just one final question, how often do the OTA updates come on average? I always like having the latest software installed, so MAYBE I can consider having an unrooted phone.. although that will be very difficult. I love my xposed. Anyway, I guess if updates only come about once a month, then rooting is fine. Not too much of a loss. I will definitely be making a how-to guide once I'm done with all of this! (and once my device arrives)

Henryy97 said:
Once again, thanks. I reached the limit of thanks I can give for today, haha. I'm reading up much more on the process, etc. Just one final question, how often do the OTA updates come on average? I always like having the latest software installed, so MAYBE I can consider having an unrooted phone.. although that will be very difficult. I love my xposed. Anyway, I guess if updates only come about once a month, then rooting is fine. Not too much of a loss. I will definitely be making a how-to guide once I'm done with all of this! (and once my device arrives)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I bought my phone ~5-6 months ago. When I got it, the MM update was waiting (released late last year). Probably ~2 months later, another update came through. Since then, nothing. So it looks like probably 3 maybe 4 a year. I'd rather be rooted with all the benefits than get a small update, though I'd really rather have both.

6.0.1 is not out yet although there is a reteu version posted which works great. Rooting is as simple flashing su 2.62-3 with twrp.

lafester said:
6.0.1 is not out yet although there is a reteu version posted which works great. Rooting is as simple flashing su 2.62-3 with twrp.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'll check it out. Do you mind sharing the link to that version just in case? I am very confused now though, because @vertigo_2_20 says he has 6.0.1, and you say you didn't get it. Perhaps location matters? Can you elaborate a little bit more?
And actually, I've just realized: I think I was looking at too many outdated posts perhaps with all the complicated root procedures such as the one by ivcarlos. The guide that amit.lohar made is very simple which is the one vertigo kindly shared in this OP. One final question @vertigo_2_20 (sorry for so many questions). Does the method by amit.lohar work for 6.0 anddd 6.0.1? I would assume so since they're pretty much very similar. What is your take on this?

I assumed I was on 6.0.1 because I received a system update after being on MM, so I don't know what else it could be. Though it does just say 6.0 in settings. Regardless, I only did it a few weeks ago, so if you're fully updated, you'll be the same as what I was. Even if not, I would think it wouldn't matter. As long as you do a back up before messing with things, worse case scenario is you screw something up and restore the backup.

Henryy97 said:
I'll check it out. Do you mind sharing the link to that version just in case? I am very confused now though, because @vertigo_2_20 says he has 6.0.1, and you say you didn't get it. Perhaps location matters? Can you elaborate a little bit more?
And actually, I've just realized: I think I was looking at too many outdated posts perhaps with all the complicated root procedures such as the one by ivcarlos. The guide that amit.lohar made is very simple which is the one vertigo kindly shared in this OP. One final question @vertigo_2_20 (sorry for so many questions). Does the method by amit.lohar work for 6.0 anddd 6.0.1? I would assume so since they're pretty much very similar. What is your take on this?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No I don't get links for people... this forum is small and easy to read. Dev section has one pre loaded with franken and there are two threads in general.

Henryy97 said:
Once again, thanks. I reached the limit of thanks I can give for today, haha. I'm reading up much more on the process, etc. Just one final question, how often do the OTA updates come on average? I always like having the latest software installed, so MAYBE I can consider having an unrooted phone.. although that will be very difficult. I love my xposed. Anyway, I guess if updates only come about once a month, then rooting is fine. Not too much of a loss. I will definitely be making a how-to guide once I'm done with all of this! (and once my device arrives)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If receiving the OTA updates is something you really want, systemless root will allow you to get them with a lot less effort. The trick is knowing which of the apps that require root privileges will end up modifying your system. Avoid the ones that will and you can enjoy root with less work to get updates. If the only root required apps you are interested in modifies the system, then it will be a matter of what you value more.
Sent from my awesome phone!

That reminds me of another thing I haven't yet figured out. If /system is modified, I'm assuming the OTA will still show up and just won't install, but I wonder if it won't even show up anymore. Anyone know?

aybarrap1 said:
If receiving the OTA updates is something you really want, systemless root will allow you to get them with a lot less effort. The trick is knowing which of the apps that require root privileges will end up modifying your system. Avoid the ones that will and you can enjoy root with less work to get updates. If the only root required apps you are interested in modifies the system, then it will be a matter of what you value more.
Sent from my awesome phone!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ahhh! I guess I'll just flash ROMS to update my phone then because I need my xposed Besides, after 6.0, if we want root, we can only get the systemless one anyway, right?
Also, I did not quite understand something about systemless root. If the root is 'systemless', then how can apps still edit the system? I've read up that after a memory wipe, the root will actually go away but what happens if I have apps that already modified the system? I just don't quite get how the apps can get into the system and modify it, if the root itself cannot do that because it is systemless. Am I getting the wrong idea here? I've read, and read, and read. I can't find an answer to that :/ According to what you have said though, if I were to get an app that modifies the system, then it would essentially *break* the systemless aspect of it, right? Therefore, it just becomes a normal root?
I feel like I'm going in circles now so I hope someone will be able to explain this for me or just point me in the right direction!

Systemless root does not mean root doesn't have access to /system, it simply means a way of gaining root access without modifying the /system partition, because if you gain root with the old methods, which DO modify /system, it breaks Android Pay and OTAs. Root still has access to modify system, hence why you have to be careful in installing apps, xposed, etc, because if they have root access, they can modify it, and if they do, your systemless root just became useless. The whole point is to NOT modify it so as to keep those certain functions intact, but it doesn't prevent you from doing so after gaining root.

vertigo_2_20 said:
Systemless root does not mean root doesn't have access to /system, it simply means a way of gaining root access without modifying the /system partition, because if you gain root with the old methods, which DO modify /system, it breaks Android Pay and OTAs. Root still has access to modify system, hence why you have to be careful in installing apps, xposed, etc, because if they have root access, they can modify it, and if they do, your systemless root just became useless. The whole point is to NOT modify it so as to keep those certain functions intact, but it doesn't prevent you from doing so after gaining root.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My experience was rooting 5.1.1 on the new phone. I backed up at every stage. I tried a few roms, no big deal. I liked 5.1.1 better due to micro sd card usage. I stupidly allowed the OTA to attempt to install. I knew it would fail but hoped it would stop nagging. The result I did not expect was phone continually rebooting on its own, trying to complete the update. After it completed the reboot it would start to shut down and begin the reboot process again. I restored a backup and froze the Motorola Update app with Titanium Backup. Problem solved. Don't do what I did!

Why would you want to stay on L? M is so much better. Between Doze and permission control, you'll have better battery life and more privacy and security. Not to mention the increased security from having more up-to-date software. I'd recommend just taking the update.

Security implications of rooting Nexus 6P

I have a 6p, and I've had many issues with it. I joined the Android beta program hoping the beta might help, and it did somewhat, then broke it again.
I'm considering rooting the phone so I can adjust noise cancellation and switch to a power optimized kernel, to fix the two major problems with the device.
Can anyone suggest the best way to do this while minimizing security risks, and what are the risks compared to just keeping stock unrooted? FYI I have rooted and flashed ROMs on phones before, so not a total noob.
Thanks!

sashby said:
I have a 6p, and I've had many issues with it. I joined the Android beta program hoping the beta might help, and it did somewhat, then broke it again.
I'm considering rooting the phone so I can adjust noise cancellation and switch to a power optimized kernel, to fix the two major problems with the device.
Can anyone suggest the best way to do this while minimizing security risks, and what are the risks compared to just keeping stock unrooted? FYI I have rooted and flashed ROMs on phones before, so not a total noob.
Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hello...
Working method:
Unlock bootloader
Flash TWRP.img : https://dl.twrp.me/angler/twrp-3.1.0-0-angler.img
Boot into TWRP
Install SuperSU: https://download.chainfire.eu/1021/SuperSU/SR3-SuperSU-v2.79-SR3-20170114223742.zip
Reboot. Done.
From here you can install the kernel of your choice. Recommended kernels: ElementalX or Franco's Kernel.
Well, rooting a phone always.involve risks. Depending what you do with your phone. As long as you don't install apps from bad sources and don't allow root access before you know what it does.
Also, you don't need Root to install a custom kernel if you want.
Just fastboot boot TWRP.img and install kernel zip from TWRP. It may lack some features that need Root to work though...
Good luck...

sashby said:
I have a 6p, and I've had many issues with it. I joined the Android beta program hoping the beta might help, and it did somewhat, then broke it again.
I'm considering rooting the phone so I can adjust noise cancellation and switch to a power optimized kernel, to fix the two major problems with the device.
Can anyone suggest the best way to do this while minimizing security risks, and what are the risks compared to just keeping stock unrooted? FYI I have rooted and flashed ROMs on phones before, so not a total noob.
Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you unlock your bootloader and root you will get a nag screen saying Android can't ensure that your device is safe. It isn't really dangerous as long as you only download apps from trusted sources and are careful about what apps you give root access to. However, Android Pay and some banking apps won't work on a rooted phone unless you use Magisk and PhilsSu which are currently able to pass Androids Safety Net security measures by hiding root from those apps.

I should add that a handful of games like Pokemon Go require the device to pass safety net to work so again you would need to use the Magisk and PhilsSu combo to play them. If you are going to go to the trouble of rooting I would consider trying a custom rom (other than Pure Nexus) as well as flashing a custom kernel like ElementalEx or The Flash's kernel. It's easy enough to go back to stock of you want to. Cortex is a very good stock based Rom with Pixel features, a responsive developer and very few bugs. I'm currently on Dirty Unicorns (which is not on XDA) because I wanted OMS support for Substratum theming. The Rom is fast and smooth and all my apps work perfectly on it--unlike PN where I encountered some problem or another every time I tried it.

Hello,
No issues at all with Pure Nexus here... :good:
Cheers...

5.1 said:
Hello,
No issues at all with Pure Nexus here... :good:
Cheers...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I ran Pure Nexus 5 separate times, always a completely clean install and never once did I not have issues with it. I think the people who use that Rom have been brainwashed.

jhs39 said:
I ran Pure Nexus 5 separate times, always a completely clean install and never once did I not have issues with it. I think the people who use that Rom have been brainwashed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hello,
Thank you very much, have a nice day to you too... :good:
Cheers...

Thank you everyone for your input. I think I'm going to need to do this soon, as the phone is almost unusable sometimes - and battery life is downright awful on stock with this phone. It's now dozing correctly again, but when I'm actually using it I can literally watch the battery gauge drop, even with screen brightness turned way down.

It used to be that when flashing a ROM you were wiping the entire phone - i.e. even personal data has to be reloaded on the phone. Is that still true, or are they on separate partitions?

sashby said:
It used to be that when flashing a ROM you were wiping the entire phone - i.e. even personal data has to be reloaded on the phone. Is that still true, or are they on separate partitions?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hello,
To install a custom ROM you need to unlock the bootloader. When unlock it, the userdata partition is entirely wiped. The internal storage (personal data's: photos,, videos, etc...) is part of it.
So be sure to backup your photos, videos, etc... Before you do it...
Good luck...

sashby said:
I have a 6p, and I've had many issues with it. I joined the Android beta program hoping the beta might help, and it did somewhat, then broke it again.
I'm considering rooting the phone so I can adjust noise cancellation and switch to a power optimized kernel, to fix the two major problems with the device.
Can anyone suggest the best way to do this while minimizing security risks, and what are the risks compared to just keeping stock unrooted? FYI I have rooted and flashed ROMs on phones before, so not a total noob.
Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The full risk is this.
If I can boot your phone into TWRP and you don't have encryption enabled, I can unlock your phone by deleting the correct files.
Once the correct files are deleted I own the phone and your data.
So I've come to the conclusion in the last day while restoring my phone that encryption is a must with an unlocked bootloader.