Note from the Author -
I am moving on to the N5 now and ditching my S3. I will continue to maintain this thread, however - please do PM me if you think that something needs to be changed or updated in this thread as I doubt I will be answering questions within the thread as much. Please don't PM support questions to me. Only PM updates that need to be made in the thread.
It's been a blast!
Regards
Dan
S3 Storage (Data Loss Recovery / Prevention / Info)
This thread is intended to give you an overview of some of the Storage of the S3 from a Data Loss and recovery perspective. It is not intended to cover USB sticks or mods to Swap / Mount other storage. It is solely to cover day-to-day data concerns and give a background to how these things work
Please note, if you have recently swapped between Android 4.1 and 4.2 and cannot find your sdcard data, you need to read [Info] Flashed 4.2? Can't find your /sdcard data?
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Before we get started...
Here are a couple of threads you should get familiar with before posting on XDA.
Forum Rules - use Search before posting
Post Questions or Support queries in Q&A, NOT General
Backround of Android storage (Pre-S3)
Firstly, I think we need to understand how Android worked historically as this will help us to understand how the S3 works now.
A legacy android device, lets pretend the HTC desire on Android 2.2 as this was a standard configuration at the time. It had 2 major partitions (and several minor ones which are irrelevant to this topic). It has the /system partition and the /data partition. These were partitions of the internal NAND flash memory.
/system is where the Android operating system lives. The user could not delete or change anything in here (unless you were rooted). All the software that came with the phone was installed in the /system partition
/data is where all the userdata goes. Whenever you installed an app from the market, it installed to /data/app and it put all it's important data into /data/data. Also any system settings you changed (Wallpaper, ringtones etc) all were stored in /data/data. When you did a factory reset, it wiped /data and everything in it.
Of course, having these 2 partitions was not enough for everyday use. There was no where to store your music, photos, documents etc. /data is just for app data and settings. So this is where /sdcard comes in
/sdcard is the Android mount point for the External SD card in this legacy android device. This means that when you inserted a Micro SD card, Android used /sdcard as it's internal reference to where the card's storage is. The /sdcard was a necessity before you could take photos. Over time, bigger apps started to put other data here. For example, a GPS / Map application would store its apk (application package) in /data/app and store your personal configuration settings in /data/data but it may download and store offline maps somewhere on the /sdcard. In older devices, the internal Memory (NAND Flash) was usually too small to allow much data on it. Many users would have to root to get more storage space or keep uninstalling apps to keep the "low on space" warnings at bay
How the S3 is different
Well, the S3 is substantially different. There are of course SOME similarities. For example, the S3 still has internal NAND Flash Memory. This is often referred to as the eMMC (Embedded MultiMedia Card) - which still contains the /system and /data partitions, used in exactly the same way.
The main difference is /sdcard. The S3 is designed specifically so using an external micro sd card is NOT a necessity. It has a larger NAND Flash internal memory (eMMC) so it can also have an "internal SD card". This is where people start to get confused. The entire internal memory is an eMMC which is essentially an internal SD card, however a partition of that internal memory is /sdcard.
OK, I know - let me explain. /sdcard is a mount point that Android uses to know where to store /sdcard data. But on the S3, instead of storing it on a required external sd card, it points to an internal memory partition. Now here is the clever bit. The /sdcard actually points to /data/media (or /data/media/0 in Android 4.2 onwards). So you continue to have your /data partition, but within /data you have:
/data/app
/data/data
/data/media
The clever thing is that the file system that android uses for /system and /data is a Linux file system called Extended FS. In our case, we use the Ext 4 file system. This is important to understand because these file systems do not work with Windows so an external SD card would usually be Fat 32 file system, or exFAT so we could plug it into our windows computers and read the contents. What Samsung have had to do is use the FUSE file system to allow /sdcard (or /data/media) to exist as a FAT file system within the EXT 4 file system. Clever stuff. But it has it's pro's and cons...
You lost me at file system
All electronic systems that have an operating system and store data use a file system. Think of it in it's simplest form. Imagine a school text book. It has lots of chapters about different things. It has a "Table of Contents" in the first few pages, telling you where each chapter in the book is so if you want to know what page chapter 13 is on, you look in the contents and find the page and go straight there - The alternative is looking through each page individually to find the chapter. Not a quick process.
Well data storage works the same. When you put a file on a hard drive, sdcard, USB stick (or whatever) it is written to a specific location. When it is written to this location, the location is added to the file system. So when you put word.doc onto the drive, The file system is informed of the (very complicated) location of the file. When you tell Windows, Android (or whatever) that you want to open word.doc, the operating system consults the File system and goes to retrieve the data from its true and real (yet very complicated) location on the drive.
There are many file system types still in use today. Usually they are operating system specific. For example, Ext 4 is a Linux file system (and Android by Proxy as it is Linux kernel based) and Windows cannot read Ext file systems. Similarly, exFAT is a Microsoft file system (also used for sdcards on the S3) and cannot be used (easily) on Linux machines. Since most everyday users of the S3 are Windows users, you can see now hopefully why it was important for Sasmung to use "magic" and implement FUSE to allow an exFAT file system to be used for /sdcard, within the Ext 4 partition of /data
Did I REALLY need to know ALL that?
You know what? Probably not but it may go some way to help understand the limitations we will cover later on.
A bit more info for the S3
Obviously, the internal memory supplied with the S3 may not be enough for all users so they added the ability to add expanded memory in the form of the Micro SD card. Android uses the Mount point of /extSdCard now, instead of /sdcard like it used for legacy devices - because /sdcard is already in use elsewhere.
One thing many of you have probably noticed is that with the S3, there is no option to mount the /sdcard or /extSdCard as USB Mass storage on your computer. You must use MTP or PTP.
PTP - Photo Transfer Protocol. When you connect your S3 to your computer using PTP, Your computer sees it as a camera. It will show photos on your "camera" and will set about implementing the default camera options (such as suggesting you import your photos) etc. It won't show documents or other media necessarily.
MTP - Media Transfer Protocol. When you connect your S3 to your computer, it will be seen as a media player. This should allow you full access to all the files on there, including word documents and the such like.
One of the reasons for this is that because /sdcard points to something using the FUSE file system and is not a true partition, it would be difficult to allow it to be used as USB Mass Storage. It may or may not be possible but the biggest advantage of using MTP / PTP is that the computer and the S3 can both access the internal memory at the same time. With USB Mass Storage (UMS) this is quite awkward and can result in errors.
Deleting data
This is partially why we needed to understand a little about file systems. So I could explain to you how data is handled when it is deleted.
As I explained earlier, when you write a file to memory, a corresponding entry is written to the file system to advise the OS where the data is. Sure, you may think you are writing the file to /sdcard/documents/work directory on the internal memory, but in reality these directories or folders do not actually exist at a memory hardware level. The data is written to a block and the file system is informed where that block is, how big the file is, what directory it should appear in to the OS etc. When a file is written the memory, the OS see's the available space go down and the used space go up. All this information comes from the file system.
When you delete the file, the actual data is NOT deleted. It remains where it is on the memory. The block is not overwritten. When the OS is told by the user to delete the file, the File system entry is deleted. This changes the free/used space as the file system is no longer accounting for the data, however the truth is the data still exists. When the next request to write a file to the memory comes from the OS, the file system will think the block where the old data was is empty and will overwrite it.
It is this difference between the file system and reality that allows data to be recovered by external software. if you do not write any data to the memory, external software can scan the memory for data whilst bypassing the file system all together. Ff course the window is small. You only have a very limited time to recover data before the file system allows the data to be overwritten with a new entry.
This is not just true of a deleted file. Even formatting the memory (which is actually just re-creating a new, blank file system) leaves all the data in tact behind-the-scenes and can all still be recovered until you start writing data to the memory. Cool huh?
Wow, all this time I've been stressing, is it really that simple?
Awwww snap! You got me. No it is not that simple. All this PC software, example: Piriform recuva only works on a computer drive. In windows, imagine this is anything with a Drive Letter. C: drive etc.
The only way to get a drive letter on your sdcard is to use USB Mass Storage mode, which as previously discussed - is not possible on your S3 (unless you are rooted, you can mount USB mass storage in custom recovery or use a UMS app from Play). The alternative is to use a card reader on your PC and put the sdcard in it.
There are also apps like Undelete for root users - which again, you guessed it - requires root. So if you're not rooted, it's simplest to use a card reader which can be bought for peanuts.
It's worth mentioning, NONE OF THE ABOVE will work with /sdcard on internal memory. It is not possible to get your data back once deleted from internal memory. Once gone, it's gone forever. You can only restore from /extSdCard (removable, external SDcard)
Phone won't boot, can I get my data back from internal memory?
Let's start by saying, it depends why your phone won't boot. If it's an SDS (Sudden Death Syndrome) type issue, where your internal eMMC (NAND FLash memory) has failed, then no. However, if you believe this is not the case then you can get your /sdcard data using adb BUT you need a custom recovery to be flashed via Odin before you do this. Read [REF] Understanding the basics before rooting your S3
However, if out of curiosity - you do still want to get your data off, using adb , read below:
Pre requisite is having adb "installed" on your windows PC. Download THIS file and follow the instructions in the readme.
You need to observe the following. For android 4.1.x and earlier, /data/media for android 4.2.x and newer, /data/media/0 - I will assume 4.2.2 for this guide,.
1) Boot into recovery, connect usb and go to "mounts and storage". Toggle the "mount data" options to mount these partitions. Tip, when mounted, the option then becomes "unmount data"
2) Open "cmd" in Windows and type the below code, which will copy all your data to a folder called sdcard on your windows desktop
Code:
adb pull /data/media/0/ c:\users\rootsu\desktop\sdcard
Also note, this assumes you have windows vista or newer. Also, it assumes your windows username is rootsu.
That's it, simple.
Display and Digitiser won't work, can I get my data back from internal memory?
You can use adb and a custom recovery to pull data from your /sdcard or even app data from /data/data
Pre requisite is having adb "installed" on your windows PC. Download THIS file and follow the instructions in the readme.
You need to observe the following. For android 4.1.x and earlier, /data/media for android 4.2.x and newer, /data/media/0 - I will assume 4.2.2 for this guide,.
1) Boot into recovery, connect usb and go to "mounts and storage". Toggle the "mount data" options to mount these partitions. Tip, when mounted, the option then becomes "unmount data"
2) Open "cmd" in Windows and type the below code, which will copy all your data to a folder called sdcard on your windows desktop
Code:
adb pull /data/media/0/ c:\users\rootsu\desktop\sdcard
Other things you may want to pull.....
Code:
adb pull /data/data/com.android.providers.telephony/databases/mmssms.db c:\users\rootsu\desktop\sdcard
Code:
adb pull /data/data/com.android.providers.contacts/databases/contacts2.db c:\users\rootsu\desktop\sdcard
Also note, this assumes you have windows vista or newer. Also, it assumes your windows username is rootsu.
That's it, simple.
Data corruption
When data becomes corrupt, there's really not a lot you can do. The file system knows where the data is already. If it's corrupt, you're stuck. Most common causes of corruption are:
1) Dirty unmount of /sdcard. SD card pulled out whilst it is being written to / phone shuts off whilst being written to. SOMETIMES - Plugging the card into a card reader in windows, Windows will ask to fix it and MAY fix it.
2) Fake SD card. This is really the MOST common. Get a card reader ans use:
h2testw.exe for windows to test your card in a card reader. Set it to read the full size of the card, which will take hours but well worth it.
If you get a result like this:
Code:
Warning: Only 63995 of 63996 MByte tested.
The media is likely to be defective.
3.8 GByte OK (8072512 sectors)
58.6 GByte DATA LOST (122989248 sectors)
Details:2 MByte overwritten (4096 sectors)
...Then you have a fake card, that is really 4 GB. I'll explain this.
Commonly, fake cards are reprogrammed to "think" they are high capacity cards, such as 32 GB or 64 GB to defraud buyers out of money. This is common on eBay (Never buy cards from eBay).
When these cards are formatted, the file system also thinks it is this fake capacity. Normally, when a card is full, the file system will report to the OS there is no more space and this prevents additional writes to the card. However, in the case where the card is 4GB and the File system thinks it is 64 GB, the tricked file system doesn't know the card is full. The file system keeps allowing data to be written to the card, over writing the existing data but without replacing the file system entries. The file system thinks data that has been overwritten hasn't been overwritten so when you try to open one of these files, it is essentially "corrupt" or non-existent.
Preventing data loss
Time to wise up guys. It is possible to recover data off your removable media, but internal memory - very unlikely. No apps on your PC or Android will help with deleted data. So you need to backup.
Dropbox - Use dropbox to automatically upload your photos to online storage.
Foldersync - Use FolderSync to upload important sdcard files to your dropbox account, or better yet - got a computer thats always on at home? Set foldersync to schedule a sync over wifi whilst you're asleep.
Other info
Interesting tidbits
Quite an exhaustive reference guide you got here rootSU thanks this will sure come handy for all of us :good:
Cheers
Thank you very much for taking the time to write this. It's a non academic approach to a sum of keywords and all of them are explained in such a manner that it would be almost impossible to misunderstand
Nice!
Nice post!
There are a few other interesting tidbits of info that might be worth mentioning:
- eMMC has an internal micro-controller that runs very specific firmware (and SDS was mainly caused by a bug in that firmware)
- eMMC (just like SSD) has specific writing/erasing limits and commands to deal with that - as a very general idea it can write about 4k at a time but can only erase in much larger blocks - like 64k (at least, but a 16GB model could have a much bigger block); normally on the same erase-size block there is very special list maintained, and based on that list wear leveling is implemented;
- all flash-based memory AGES - there is only a limited amount of erase/writes cycles possible before a point where the info is no longer reliably-stored; in some models that value can be incredibly small! to avoid writing more to some regions than other a mechanism call wear leveling is implemented; that one can have a big impact on both speed and reliability (but really don't expect it to create miracles)
- since it is very important for the speed and reliability of the flash memory to return unused blocks to this internal lists there are special TRIM commands that informs the firmware that the block can be garbage-collected; with an OS that supports TRIM, when a file is erased the blocks are also TRIMmed; this is one extra level that makes recovery basically impossible under normal circumstances
- this does not really mean that things are completely impossible to recover, just that you might need to spend so much on it that recovery would be impractical for any item worth less than 100000 US$ to 1 million US$
EDIT
- also just as with SSD it is not a bad idea to keep a good percentage of the flash memory free - IMHO at least 4GB for 16GB models, 6-8GB for 32GB models - that will improve performance since fragmentation (CLARIFICATION - free-space fragmentation) will grow much slower
- unfortunately there is no program for eMMC similar to smartctl (or any other SMART-data reading program) on normal SATA/IDE/SCSI disks - there seem to be some proprietary commands that are somehow similar but those are generally undocumented.
xclub_101 said:
Nice post!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've put a link to your post in post 1. Where as it's not strictly relevant to my point, it is interesting stuff....
Fragmentation isn't an issue on ssd's. Its an issue on hdd because the head must physically move to another area of the Platter to get the data. That's the slow down. Defrag of a hdd moves all the used blocks (data) together so the actuator doesn't need to move much.
Performance degrades over time on ssds because every write, if data already exists must be erased too. But this hasn't really been an issue so much since TRIM became widely available.
-----------------------
Sent via tapatalk.
I do NOT reply to support queries over PM. Please keep support queries to the Q&A section, so that others may benefit
rootSU said:
...
Fragmentation isn't an issue on ssd's.
...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you.
Also sorry for the misunderstanding with my contraction - what I wanted to say was free space fragmentation - that one does matter a lot on solid-state memory because of the garbage collection and some controllers have been famous for having a huge drop in performance with little free space - I will try to also correct that post.
xclub_101 said:
Sorry, I used a misleading contraction - what I wanted to say was free space fragmentation - that one does matter a lot on solid-state memory because of the garbage collection and some controllers have been famous for having a huge drop in performance with little free space - I will try to also correct that post.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep, it's true about Garbage collection, but TRIM *should* handle this nicely as should "over provisioning" although probably, some cheap SSD's may not over provision.
EDIT> Actually (sorry everyone for off topic) if you're interested in SSD's, these articles are a "fun" read... (I put fun in speech marks as it depends how geeky you are )
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trim_(computing)
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2038...-ssds-what-makes-these-speedy-drives-hum.html
Update to post 1:
Note from the Author -
I am moving on to the N5 now and ditching my S3. I will continue to maintain this thread, however - please do PM me if you think that something needs to be changed or updated in this thread as I doubt I will be answering questions within the thread as much. Please don't PM support questions to me. Only PM updates that need to be made in the thread.
It's been a blast!
Regards
Dan
Awesome bits of info. This is the game changer. I learned a whole lot just by reading here in XDA. I've only been using Android for a few weeks but thanks to XDA, I've already rooted, installed a bunch of apps and kept my OCD in check.
my device memory has corrupted and when i start recovery mode i get "E: faild to mount /cash (invalid argument) "
Related
Hello.
I'm using the latest aurora and I'd like to discuss an idea I had.
Since the U8800 has plenty internal memory and it's quite fast comparing to an average sd card, it'd be great if we could use the internal memory for the tasks that need "speed" instead of "space".
Running apps from the sd card is the perfect example!
So the idea would be, while keeping the external sdcard mounted on /mnt/sdcard, having /mnt/sdcard/Android/data, for instance, point to the «internal sdcard path»/Android/data.
What do you think would be the best solution:
- hacking the mount points?
- using links?
- other solution?
Any developer or filesystem savvy user can point the advantages or dangers of using this solution?
- e.g.: the system or some apps may check if the external sd-card is mounted before trying to read/write to /mnt/sdcard/Android/data... that would mean the system/those apss may think that path isn't reachable with the ext-sdcard unmounted, altough they can be read.
Suggestions? Rants? Ideas?
Regards!
I have wondered if the /data/app or maybe the whole /data partition could be mounted in the internal storage partition. That would give 2gb space for apps and associated files instead of 3-400 ish and would mean no need to move apps to sd card which would mean faster loads at startup due to internal memory being faster.
VuDuCuRSe said:
Hello.
I'm using the latest aurora and I'd like to discuss an idea I had.
Since the U8800 has plenty internal memory and it's quite fast comparing to an average sd card, it'd be great if we could use the internal memory for the tasks that need "speed" instead of "space".
Running apps from the sd card is the perfect example!
So the idea would be, while keeping the external sdcard mounted on /mnt/sdcard, having /mnt/sdcard/Android/data, for instance, point to the «internal sdcard path»/Android/data.
What do you think would be the best solution:
- hacking the mount points?
- using links?
- other solution?
Any developer or filesystem savvy user can point the advantages or dangers of using this solution?
- e.g.: the system or some apps may check if the external sd-card is mounted before trying to read/write to /mnt/sdcard/Android/data... that would mean the system/those apss may think that path isn't reachable with the ext-sdcard unmounted, altough they can be read.
Suggestions? Rants? Ideas?
Regards!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well this is known for a while now . Quoted from my thread here:
vold.fstab - CHANGE THE DEFAULT SDCARD: -thanks to julle131
There is this file named vold.fstab at your /system/etc/ folder, which controls which of your sdcards (Internal/External) will be mounted when you connect your phone to the PC. The last 2 lines are the only that matter. These are the two possibilities:
EXTERNAL SDCARD MOUNTED (DEFAULT):
dev_mount sdcard /mnt/sdcard auto /devices/platform/msm_sdcc.4/mmc_host
dev_mount emmc /mnt/sdcard1 14 /devices/platform/msm_sdcc.2/mmc_host
INTERNAL SDCARD MOUNTED:
dev_mount sdcard /mnt/sdcard 14 /devices/platform/msm_sdcc.2/mmc_host
dev_mount emmc /mnt/sdcard1 auto /devices/platform/msm_sdcc.4/mmc_host
change them as you wish with a root explorer or before flashing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Make this change and every app will use the internal sdcard. Gallery works ok with images to external sdcard, it just might take a while for the first refresh. But I don't know if you'll notice any difference in terms of speed....
Cheers
spirosbond said:
Well this is known for a while now . Quoted from my thread here:
Make this change and every app will use the internal sdcard. Gallery works ok with images to external sdcard, it just might take a while for the first refresh. But I don't know if you'll notice any difference in terms of speed....
Cheers
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's not what he talked, I think. He said that the apparel would be installed on the external sd card, but the data would be moved to the internal one. And we have speed, but the main card would be the external one.
I think its a great idea if I understood it right!
Sent from my U8800 using xda premium
mrasquinho said:
That's not what he talked, I think. He said that the apparel would be installed on the external sd card, but the data would be moved to the internal one. And we have speed, but the main card would be the external one.
I think its a great idea if I understood it right!
Sent from my U8800 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh I see! Sorry about that. As far as I know apps are not choosing were to put their data. They just say to the OS "I want these things to be at the sdcard" and the OS puts them at the correct place. So you can't "hack" the app to "see" at somewhere else. On the other hand the OS initialises on boot which card is the primary and which is the secondary. So my knowledge stops there and I can't imagine a way to make this separation between app data and the rest...
I hope for someone else's help!
PaulMilbank said:
I have wondered if the /data/app or maybe the whole /data partition could be mounted in the internal storage partition. That would give 2gb space for apps and associated files instead of 3-400 ish and would mean no need to move apps to sd card which would mean faster loads at startup due to internal memory being faster.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe this cannot be done, because I think that the mapping of the partitions and mounts comes from the bootloader, but there is already the solution of resizing the data partition using the space of internal storage.
PaulMilbank said:
I have wondered if the /data/app or maybe the whole /data partition could be mounted in the internal storage partition. That would give 2gb space for apps and associated files instead of 3-400 ish and would mean no need to move apps to sd card which would mean faster loads at startup due to internal memory being faster.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's a great idea!
I almost don't use the so called "internal sd card", therefor I have 2GB of fast empty space being wasted.
Why not simply mounting the internal sd-card partition in the data folder and the data partition on the internal sd card folder?
I only use the internal sd card to hold ringtones and other small stuff that I need to be in accessible 100% of the time, so a few hundred MB are enough!
Me gusta!
Every ROM flashes it's own fstab, right?
So all we'd need to do would be, editing the fstab before flashing it.
-----------------
Regarding the my first idea... I don't think one can simply mount a path on another path. We'd need a "virtual" device pointing to /mnt/sdcard-internal/data/ then mount that virtual device on /mnt/sdcard-external/data/.
My knowledge of unix mount/filesystems is not much more than what's explained here: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Mount
OK, just found this:
http://askubuntu.com/questions/11079/mount-a-directory-to-look-like-a-drive
there is a FUSE filesystem named bindfs that probably does exactly what you want. For example the following:
bindfs -n /media/USB-HDD-01/ISO/ /home/johnc/ISO-images
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
would result in ISO-images to show up as a mounted filesystem in the Places sidepanel in Nautilus. The -n is required because otherwise bindfs tries to use the allow_other FUSE option, which by default is not allowed for regular users (if you use bindfs in /etc/fstab this is not a problem).
The first directory you give is the existing one, the second directory you give is an empty directory under which the contents of the existing one will appear.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So, bindfs depends on FUSE... and there's a port of fuse to android: https://github.com/seth-hg/fuse-android but looking at the README I get the feeling that it's not really working. The last step would be having a kernel with FUSE support... and regarding that, I have no idea, how easy it is to get a kernel like that for our U8800 :\
Finding such a solution to expand the DATA partition indirectly would be great!
I used to apply genokolar's custom partition method as "1.2G DATA + 1.46G INTERNAL SD" before, but i found out that it has some issues with Official 2.3 Roms. One of them -the most important IMHO- is the BOOTLOOP problem occurring in some specific situations!!!
See the details in my post here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=25853141&postcount=134
(Seems that I don't encounter the bootloops on Custom Roms, but i'm not %100 sure and never will be )
So i unfortunately gave up using it, and revert to the stock partition .
I will be grateful to the one who will find a better and reliable solution. Hope to see it soon...
I still have to gather more information on the official update "modus operandi".
My goal is to simply reformat both partitions and then swap their mount points.
If the official update formats the partitions before applying the flashing official ROM files, then partitioning changes shouldn't cause any failure on the official update.
But like I said, I'm still yet to confirm that info.
Gen's idea was great (I learned a lot just by looking at his scripts) but resizing partitions has its dangers.
Since "no one" really uses the internal memory, why not simply exchange its room with /data, right?
This would be awesome! I would love to have 2gb for apps, instead of cluttering my phone.. plus the 2gb of internal storage are just a waste for me.. I never use them.. so this would be great!
This is completely pulled off of my other thread in the HOX+ section
our device is a data/media device which is why usb mount don't work
here's a link that explains it all
http://teamw.in/DataMedia
and part of the convo with dees_troy is below
<Dees_Troy> Nope, it will *never* work on a data/media device
<Dees_Troy> read and learn: http://teamw.in/DataMedia
<WinBot> [Link] http://tinyw.in/lstO :: What is a data media device? | TeamWin
<Dees_Troy> definitely worth understanding
<Dees_Troy> at some point we're going to try to kang in MTP for recovery
<Lloir> so for now then it's sideload or from inside the rom
<Dees_Troy> or adb push
<Lloir> aye
<Dees_Troy> or gtfo
<*****> so cant mount usb storage with newer devices...hmm one x did guess this is where confusion at least on my part came to be
<Lloir> lmao Dees_Troy
<Dees_Troy> one x wasn't a data media device
YOU MUST either transfer the rom\boot\porn\audio\mods while the phone is on or use adb push or even sideload when in recovery, THIS IS THE ONLY way
IF you want to read without clicking the link i'll whack it up in #2
What is a data media device?
I'm writing this page because there seems to be a lot of confusion about how many of the newer Android devices work. Starting in Honeycomb 3.0 with the Xoom, Google changed the way that they handled storage. Instead of having a "data" partition with your apps and a separate "sdcard" partition for storage, Google started giving you a single, very large data partition. Inside /data is a folder at /data/media that contains all of the contents of what you think of as your internal sdcard.
Since /data/media is part of /data, we pretty much never actually format the data partition. Formatting data, of course, also removes the media folder that contains the internal sdcard. When you choose a factory reset, instead of formatting, we use rm -rf commands to remove all the folders except for the media folder so that we can remove all of your apps and settings while leaving your "sdcard" intact. In TWRP we also have a wipe internal storage option that rm -rf's the media folder and a "Format Data" option that formats to recreate the entire file system in case something goes completely wrong or to remove device encryption.
When you're booted to Android, Android fuses the media folder to /sdcard and emulates a FAT files system that doesn't have permissions for legacy apps. We don't currently have fuse in recovery, so we just add an extra mount command to mount /data/media to /sdcard so in recovery you still have to worry about permissions on /sdcard.
Because the "internal sdcard" is not a true FAT file system, you can't mount it via USB storage. Well, that's not technically true, but the vast majority of people use Windows computers and Windows doesn't recognize ext4. If we were to allow you to mount the data partition via USB storage, Windows would claim that the device wasn't formatted and offer to format it for you, which, as you can imagine, would be a disaster. The whole ext4 setup is another reason that Android switched to using MTP for transferring files. Most of these devices don't have the necessary kernel configuration to even support USB storage mode, so it's not very easy to enable USB storage if we even wanted to try. Unfortunately at this time, MTP isn't available in recovery, so if you have no other option, you will have to use adb to push and pull files to/from your device.
As a special note, if you choose to do a factory reset from your ROM, even if the ROM says that it will wipe everything including the internal storage, well, that's not what TWRP will do. A stock AOSP recovery would format data including the "sdcard" but TWRP will use its regular factory reset setup that leaves the internal storage intact.
There are a couple of nice gains with using this setup vs the old data + FAT storage partition. With /data/media you, as the user get more control over how you use your storage. If you have a ton of apps, then that's no problem since you have a huge data partition to work with. If you don't have a lot of apps, you get more room to use for storing things like movies. Further, ext4 doesn't suffer from the 4GB file size limit that FAT has, so you can have a large, high-def movie on your device if you like. I'm sure another motivating factor was to get Android away from using FAT which is a Microsoft creation. Performance on ext4 in Android is also probably better than FAT. As a downside, data media devices tend to store a lot more app data in the "data" section and so backups on these devices tend to be larger.
Thank you for this post. I had been a bit curious about this. I have Evo LTE. But I also Boughy a family member a GNex that I have to maintain. I know that my Evo, I can plug into windows, and when I select USB transfer (not in recovery), it mounts my internal storage (not ext_SD) , and it shows as removable drive in windows. But,....when I plug in GNex, it shows up as GNex , not removable drive H. I always wondered a bit about what this all means.
Thanks for the info. :thumbup:
Sent from my EVO using xda premium
Thanks for the useful post.
If I make a nandroid backup for the whole device, will it exclude the /data/media folder? Because on my old phone the nandroid backup doesn't include /sdcard.
romitkin said:
Thanks for the useful post.
If I make a nandroid backup for the whole device, will it exclude the /data/media folder? Because on my old phone the nandroid backup doesn't include /sdcard.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes it does, we are past the point where that causes issues.
Everyone just needs to get used to the data/media thing. And learn how to use adb side load
I predict a whole bunch of "bricks" due to people not informing themselves on how the phone works and how to use adb
Sent from my One X using Tapatalk 2
A little bit from my side as well I hope someone will find this helpful. Virtual SD card on Android
Can't you use USB Host if you got recovery installed as well? I think I've read that somewhere...
mike1986. said:
A little bit from my side as well I hope someone will find this helpful. Virtual SD card on Android
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Link broken, here is the correct URL:
http://android-revolution-hd.blogspot.com/2013/03/virtual-sd-card-on-android.html
Oh and bump for anyone new to the idea of a "data/media" device. You're not in Kansas anymore.
NxNW said:
Link broken, here is the correct URL:
http://android-revolution-hd.blogspot.com/2013/03/virtual-sd-card-on-android.html
Oh and bump for anyone new to the idea of a "data/media" device. You're not in Kansas anymore.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lloir, thanks for sharing and good explanation. MTP makes sense and on my One, this way file transfers are simple and fast. However there are two things I dislike about MTP right now:
When you copy files to the device, on some file types it throws a warning that the device might not be able to read the file. This interrupts the file transfer and I have to confirm I want to copy the file to the device. On an older MP3 player I have, I could deactivate this by editing a device capabilities XML file. On the One, I did not find such a file. Perhaps an option in the MTP deamon?
When I am transferring files, I can't browse through other folders at the same time. It says the device is busy.
Is there a way to solve those two issues or "is it what it is"?
Lloir said:
Windows would claim that the device wasn't formatted and offer to format it for you, which, as you can imagine, would be a disaster
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I did that on a device. Windows offered to format and I did it. Man that was not good! 2 hours later after manually restoring the partition values I was OK and the most amazing thing all my data was there perfect and untouched :silly: :highfive:
Thanks for that great explanation. Been having some issues with windows and android. Nothing big just had to sideload my ROM and killed my "sdcard" at least now I know why
After a few days of googling, i stumbled upon a thread in Droid DNA forum. Which led me to this answer right from the source on why it's not possible to mount our SD Card or actually, just a folder in /data, in TWRP.
Just wanted to share and hope this will clear things up and hoping that people won't wipe their /data partition since it will delete the SD Card folder as well.
I find this very enlightening so read on.
What is a data media device?
I'm writing this page because there seems to be a lot of confusion about how many of the newer Android devices work. Starting in Honeycomb 3.0 with the Xoom, Google changed the way that they handled storage. Instead of having a "data" partition with your apps and a separate "sdcard" partition for storage, Google started giving you a single, very large data partition. Inside /data is a folder at /data/media that contains all of the contents of what you think of as your internal sdcard.
Since /data/media is part of /data, we pretty much never actually format the data partition. Formatting data, of course, also removes the media folder that contains the internal sdcard. When you choose a factory reset, instead of formatting, we use rm -rf commands to remove all the folders except for the media folder so that we can remove all of your apps and settings while leaving your "sdcard" intact. In TWRP we also have a wipe internal storage option that rm -rf's the media folder and a "Format Data" option that formats to recreate the entire file system in case something goes completely wrong or to remove device encryption.
When you're booted to Android, Android fuses the media folder to /sdcard and emulates a FAT files system that doesn't have permissions for legacy apps. We don't currently have fuse in recovery, so we just add an extra mount command to mount /data/media to /sdcard so in recovery you still have to worry about permissions on /sdcard.
Because the "internal sdcard" is not a true FAT file system, you can't mount it via USB storage. Well, that's not technically true, but the vast majority of people use Windows computers and Windows doesn't recognize ext4. If we were to allow you to mount the data partition via USB storage, Windows would claim that the device wasn't formatted and offer to format it for you, which, as you can imagine, would be a disaster. The whole ext4 setup is another reason that Android switched to using MTP for transferring files. Most of these devices don't have the necessary kernel configuration to even support USB storage mode, so it's not very easy to enable USB storage if we even wanted to try. Unfortunately at this time, MTP isn't available in recovery, so if you have no other option, you will have to use adb to push and pull files to/from your device.
As a special note, if you choose to do a factory reset from your ROM, even if the ROM says that it will wipe everything including the internal storage, well, that's not what TWRP will do. A stock AOSP recovery would format data including the "sdcard" but TWRP will use its regular factory reset setup that leaves the internal storage intact.
There are a couple of nice gains with using this setup vs the old data + FAT storage partition. With /data/media you, as the user get more control over how you use your storage. If you have a ton of apps, then that's no problem since you have a huge data partition to work with. If you don't have a lot of apps, you get more room to use for storing things like movies. Further, ext4 doesn't suffer from the 4GB file size limit that FAT has, so you can have a large, high-def movie on your device if you like. I'm sure another motivating factor was to get Android away from using FAT which is a Microsoft creation. Performance on ext4 in Android is also probably better than FAT. As a downside, data media devices tend to store a lot more app data in the "data" section and so backups on these devices tend to be larger.
Android 4.2 has changed things with /data/media devices a little bit due to the multi-user support that came in 4.2. Each user is assigned a subfolder in /data/media. The main user gets /data/media/0 and subsequent users get /data/media/10 and /data/media/11 and so on. If you switch users in Android 4.2, the system will remount the /sdcard folder to point to the proper user's folder. TWRP has been updated to use the /data/media/0 folder starting in 2.3.2.0.
Another "feature" of 4.2 is that when you "update" to 4.2 it may attempt to upgrade your /data/media to multi-user. If you're running an older version of TWRP than 2.3.2.0 or newer, a factory reset may trigger multiple upgrades, causing your "sdcard" to get moved to /data/media/0 then /data/media/0/0 and then /data/media/0/0/0 and so on depending on how many times you "upgraded". This may cause backups to not be visible in TWRP. Also, there currently isn't a good way to go back to a 4.1 ROM after using a 4.2 ROM without having to manually move your files around.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://teamw.in/DataMedia
I asked them if it's possible to just mount the ext4 partition if Windows users install some apps that can read them. Will see if they're going to answer.
Hope this helps. Cheers.
Hello all,
Now that we have root on our aesthetically unique device, I believe our next problem is storage space. I don't know about you all, but my aquos crystal has about 4 gb to work with when it comes to apps. Folder mount works well for me, as far as linking the obb files of large apps to the external sd card, but I still have to store a portion of any particular app on the phone's internal storage, which for me is no bueno. There has to be a better way. (For the sarcastic among you, buying another phone is not an option for me.)
Back in the day of Gingerbread, I remember having a whopping 300 mb of app storage to work with. I was able to partition a portion of my external sd to be used as internal storage for the device, solving all my storage woes. It worked so well, that I was sure that I would be able to find a similar method for the aquos crystal.
Now, I see that Link2sd is able to work with ext2, ext3, ext4, and fat32 partitions, so I figured I would attempt to create a ext2 partition on the micro sd to link to my internal storage directory. I used the Partition Wizard mini tool to create a ext2 partition in windows. Unfortunately after starting up Link2sd and selecting the format of my ext partition (ext2), Link2ds gives me an error telling me that the mount script was unable to be created. I've read that if we get this error, we can select ext4, even if we are using a different partition format. This got rid of the error. Mount script was successfully created. Autolink is selected, which should install new apps directly to the new partition. It doesn't, not for me at least.
I've read several guides around the internet dealing with this issue, as well as completely different methods besides Link2sd, and nothing seems to work for me. My goal in this is to supplement the capacity for apps. I would love to find a way to store all the library, devlik, and app files for each app on the external card, rather than having to keep some of each app on internal, and its larger counterparts on external. As you know, apps are constantly updated, and what seems to happen is if you install an app, then link it to the sd card, and the app gets updated in the future, the updated portion will get installed on the internal card, making your 'linked' app kind of pointless. What I'd really like to do is disregard the phone's internal storage altogether and use something like a 64 gb card as the phones internal storage. This may or may not be possible.
I'm not a programmer. I have a very basic understanding of how these things work. When it comes to things like this, I am literally standing on the shoulders of giants, and benefiting from their tenacity and willingness to share the fruits of their labors. Their exploits, and the internet that tells their story, have allowed me to root and modify practically every console and android device I've ever owned. With that being said, thank you to all that have been involved in unraveling the real potential of this device.
So, do any of you fine saints and scholars know of a way to get around the feeble storage capacity of our aquos crystal?
So this doesn't like fully decrypt the adoptable storage/private data or anything quite like that, instead you are to format your sdcard as fat32 and then I have a script that magisk can run from the /data/adb/service.d/ directory called startup.sh that will mount specific folders that you specify - in my case Android for data & obb files as well as an Emulation folder which I intended to use for RetroArch. The only issue I had with RetroArch though was that it would not see the Emulation folder like other apps would so I ended up also writing a script to update the playlists files so that all the rom files I have can be found.
The point of all this is just to make your apps and things as portable as possible while also being unencrypted. If any of yall like this or have any ideas then please contribute away and fork the project. I will accept PRs if I think it adds useful things. I may also work on setting up a way to watch the /data directory for new apps being installed to the internal storage & maybe automatically relocating them to the sdcard to save space, but I dunno if that'd really work or not, I suspect it would though.
rbreaves/AndroidTV-Decrypted: Specific to Onn 4K, Dynalink & similar Android TV 10+ devices. Rooted, decrypted, mounts fat32 for internal use. (github.com)
I kept having a lot of issues with the adoptable storage sdcards becoming corrupted in a normal Android TV setup and it was extremely irritating because the process to get all the files back on it intact was always too long and drawn out. Now if the sdcard ever becomes corrupt I can quickly and easily restore back to how it was & also make backups of the entire SD card without any issues.
The on boot mounting script is located here btw.
AndroidTV-Decrypted/startup.sh at master · rbreaves/AndroidTV-Decrypted
Specific to Onn 4K, Dynalink & similar Android TV 10+ devices. Rooted, decrypted, mounts fat32 for internal use. - AndroidTV-Decrypted/startup.sh at master · rbreaves/AndroidTV-Decrypted
github.com