I just started playing a few games on this Nexus 7, and I turned the volume down to the lowest setting because it is late at night and other people in my house are sleeping. I immediately noticed a soft but very audible static buzz coming from the speakers... about the same volume as the audio itself. I held my ear up to the hardware and confirmed it is both top and bottom speakers.
Anybody else experience this?
copyists sorpeno
I didn't notice at first. Noticed this morning with audio low as well.
I'd like to know if anyone else has this too. Kinda wanna know if its hardware since I purchased at best buy and only have 2 weeks to return.
Yup, I was going to report this too, but since it only occurs at minimal volume I didn't bother. I lost my good headphones so I can test the audio jack. Does it happen to you with them on too?
Btw- if this the trade off with the fantastic (for tablet speakers) surround sound I'll take it. Watch the test video on the Play Videos app.
Sent from my Nexus 7
I don't hear it. on mine. But My hearing is horked.
It's because the Nexus 7 uses a crappy digital volume control that simply reduces the volume of the digital waveform before it hits the DAC, instead of having a real analog volume control -an op-amp that adjusts the volume of the signal before it hits the headphone/speaker amplifier.
What you're hearing is quantization noise as at the lowest volume the audio uses only 2-4 bits of dynamic range instead of the full 16 (or 24, dunno what DAC is in this thing). It's the same as the bit-crushing effect you hear in some dubstep and other electronic music that degrades the audio into a robotic crunchy mess, only here it's not on purpose, it's just cheap design.
There is nothing you can do about it.
I've also noticed this (at first I was like, WTF? Is it raining in my game?). If what was said above is true, that makes me sad that nothing can be done about it.
siraltus said:
It's because the Nexus 7 uses a crappy digital volume control that simply reduces the volume of the digital waveform before it hits the DAC, instead of having a real analog volume control -an op-amp that adjusts the volume of the signal before it hits the headphone/speaker amplifier.
What you're hearing is quantization noise as at the lowest volume the audio uses only 2-4 bits of dynamic range instead of the full 16 (or 24, dunno what DAC is in this thing). It's the same as the bit-crushing effect you hear in some dubstep and other electronic music that degrades the audio into a robotic crunchy mess, only here it's not on purpose, it's just cheap design.
There is nothing you can do about it.
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Click to collapse
I'm not sure how you know that but if you're right I guess that means it would happen on all of them... which.. sucks.. Is there anyone that doesn't have this issue to disprove this?
smurfqq said:
I'm not sure how you know that but if you're right I guess that means it would happen on all of them... which.. sucks.. Is there anyone that doesn't have this issue to disprove this?
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Click to collapse
I'm a professional audio engineer, I know exactly how these things work. Most cheap devices do volume controls that way, because adding a dedicated op-amp for analog volume control increases costs of the device, and the Nexus 7 is a budget device.
It does happen on mine, too, in every app that plays sound.
I love when pros come in here and give the technical explanation haha hats off to you, sir!
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S4 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
siraltus said:
It's because the Nexus 7 uses a crappy digital volume control that simply reduces the volume of the digital waveform before it hits the DAC, instead of having a real analog volume control -an op-amp that adjusts the volume of the signal before it hits the headphone/speaker amplifier.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As the others have said, thanks for the explanation. Nice to hear from somebody who understands it, and if the problem is present in all units that actually makes me feel better since I don't have to worry about returning my otherwise perfect unit.
Question though, how come I don't hear the static when using headphones, even on the lowest volume settings where I hear the static from the built-in speakers? That makes me think it's related to the speakers and not the audio hardware... but you obviously know more than me on this.
mrmartin86 said:
I've also noticed this (at first I was like, WTF? Is it raining in my game?). If what was said above is true, that makes me sad that nothing can be done about it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, funny thing is the first game I played was Bad Piggies on some levels with an ocean tide moving back and forth at the bottom of the screen. I thought the static was the tide sounds... until I heard it in another game too.
tweaked said:
I don't hear it. on mine. But My hearing is horked.
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Click to collapse
It only happens at the absolute lowest volume setting... i.e. one notch up from muted. It sort of happens at the next notch up too, but is most noticeable at the quietest setting, and you need to be in a quiet room. I only noticed because I was using the device in a small echoey mostly tile room (you can probably guess where) and because of the room having such acoustics I put the device on the lowest setting just above mute.
Had something like this on my original nexus 7
Except it happened regardless of the volume setting. Wasn't that audible- had to put my ear against the speaker to really hear it, but it did interfere with other devices, such as my radio, or keyboard with a head phone jack. It would make a sound like a quick DUH-DUH-DUH-DUH-DUH-DUH...DUH-DUH-DUH-DUH-DUH-DUH. My nexus 4 can sometimes cause static interference with other devices, too. Haven't gotten the new nexus 7 so I cannot say whether or not my new one has this issue
Well.. mine's not only happening at the lowest volume notch. If I put it to my ear (never actually going to do this for normal use) it's there at every volume level, just hard to hear once whatever I'm playing gets loud enough. The display unit at a local best buy does the same. I can hear it in a quiet room at the first couple notches (normal use), which is annoying. Also, since someone asked - No it doesn't happen through headphones.
The111 said:
As the others have said, thanks for the explanation. Nice to hear from somebody who understands it, and if the problem is present in all units that actually makes me feel better since I don't have to worry about returning my otherwise perfect unit.
Question though, how come I don't hear the static when using headphones, even on the lowest volume settings where I hear the static from the built-in speakers? That makes me think it's related to the speakers and not the audio hardware... but you obviously know more than me on this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My pleasure! There's tons of FUD on XDA about many things, so I try to contribute on stuff I know well to reduce that.
Without looking at the schematics of the thing I can only guess:
The speaker amplifier is probably just a simple design that outputs 100% power all the time, so you have to control the volume of the signal that enters it, whereas the headphone amp probably has an integrated analog volume control.
A volume control is much easier (read: cheaper) to do in an integrated chip with low power signals (headphone out) than higher power (speaker out), and again, cheaper was the way to go with the Nexus 7.
Hence, there are two separate outputs from the audio chip - one that feeds the speaker amplifier and uses the bit-crushing digital volume control, the other outputs full-scale audio to the headphone amplifier which controls the volume in analog.
siraltus said:
My pleasure! There's tons of FUD on XDA about many things, so I try to contribute on stuff I know well to reduce that.
Without looking at the schematics of the thing I can only guess:
The speaker amplifier is probably just a simple design that outputs 100% power all the time, so you have to control the volume of the signal that enters it, whereas the headphone amp probably has an integrated analog volume control.
A volume control is much easier (read: cheaper) to do in an integrated chip with low power signals (headphone out) than higher power (speaker out), and again, cheaper was the way to go with the Nexus 7.
Hence, there are two separate outputs from the audio chip - one that feeds the speaker amplifier and uses the bit-crushing digital volume control, the other outputs full-scale audio to the headphone amplifier which controls the volume in analog.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Makes sense. Thanks again.
siraltus said:
My pleasure! There's tons of FUD on XDA about many things, so I try to contribute on stuff I know well to reduce that.
Without looking at the schematics of the thing I can only guess:
The speaker amplifier is probably just a simple design that outputs 100% power all the time, so you have to control the volume of the signal that enters it, whereas the headphone amp probably has an integrated analog volume control.
A volume control is much easier (read: cheaper) to do in an integrated chip with low power signals (headphone out) than higher power (speaker out), and again, cheaper was the way to go with the Nexus 7.
Hence, there are two separate outputs from the audio chip - one that feeds the speaker amplifier and uses the bit-crushing digital volume control, the other outputs full-scale audio to the headphone amplifier which controls the volume in analog.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is this something they can fix (or at least mitigate) in a software update?
paxunix said:
Is this something they can fix (or at least mitigate) in a software update?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, this is how the hardware is designed.
Noticed this too from the speakers regardless of volume, and regardless of what is playing audio. It's a high pitched squeal to my ears which I can't stand. I've thrown out computer power supplies and video cards that have made similar(obviously, louder) noises.
Was hoping it could be something improved in software, but I guess not. Time to sell this.
http://youtu.be/c9aQnuOrTY8
Recorded what it sounds like at lower volumes with a small condenser mic next to it. Let me know if that's similar to what you guys are hearing too.
Related
Hi, does someone have the same experience when connecting a headset to the TF?
I have to adjust the plug very precisely, since it can be pushed further into the device. Otherwise I loose left or right channel.
Is it less than 3.5mm? Or is some of where the wire means the plug (usually chunk of plastic) cut off?
no, it's an almost brand new inear headset which came with my Xperia Neo phone. I assumed the problem being caused by a sloppy assembled connector. If it works fine for everybody else, then it must be an individual defect with my TF
yeah i have a cheap pair of sony headphones and they work fine. just the volume isnt the best....but i know that is a tf issue not a headphone issue.
Yes, volume is a horror. I expected better. Haven't tried volume+ yet, works fine on my android phone.
To be honest, I wouldn't necessarily attribute the volume to the TF101. I have a decent pair of headphones and the volume works fine. Also, I've never noticed anything about the plug being finnicky.
I wasn't complaining about the sound but about the max. volume level. It seems to be a little low on my device. It may comply to some EU laws - I assume.
Anyway since nobody else has issues with the headset connector, I have to check with my dealer.
i'm having a similar issue but not exactly the same.
i used to have a problem with the 3.5" jack only when i plugged it to my surround system- logitech x530. i supposed it was because the signal is being amplified. so when i touched the connection or rotated it at his place it made a lot of loud static noise. i've tried changing cables but the same.
so i've got the lab to replace my transformer's mother board or so, and it is still happening. in fact i've noticed a new problem, this time with just a simple earphones.
when i push the plug a little bit harder into the jack, the sound becomes a bit louder.
wierd stuff... and of course in general the max volume kind of sucks.
I've noticed a similar issue with several of my plug-in phones.... Some work great whilst others either have no sound or mono only.
To me it appears the connector on the TF is simply too picky.
I have a pair of meelectronic A151 armature iems as well as Vsonic GR07, and while i like my music loud, clear, and with a lot of instrument seperation, maxing volume is definitely not needed.
Quick fix would be to flash a Rom/kernel compatible with Supercurio's Voodoo control and install Voodoo. It will be louder and sound clearer.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=14914293
Long term fix would be to buy a better pair of iems/headphones. Armatures like the A151s I mentioned above for clarity, a good dynamic driver like Meelec CC51, Sunrise X-cape, if you're a basshead, or VSonic's GR07 if you want a nice combination of both.
I'm quite a bit of an audiophile and while it surely isn't THE best DAC out there, the Wolfson WM8903 is very very good.
Also, depending on what phones you're using, you may just need an external amp, especially if their impedance is rather high.
Edit: I realize I went more into the sound aspect, as it was also being discussed above, but all my iems fit my TF snug just like all my other devices.
Sent from my HTC Eva 4G using Tapatalk
If anything mine is too tight a fit, but works perfectly with any headset I've tried.
Here's my issue, hooking up the phone thru the headphone jack to the aux of my benz the volume level is extremely low. I have the volume on phone all the way up. I have to turn it up extremely loud on the car volume to hear it. Is there like a child protection volume setting or? Didn't have this issue with the gnex
Thanks for any help...
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda app-developers app
Hi,
This is the same for me Anyone got a solution?
Pandora is much quieter than Google Play if you're using one or the other. I find the volume on mine to be on par with my MP3 player so I am satisfied. If you haven't run an aux into your car before you may be just unaware of how 'loud' you have to make it. My car stereo has been to turned up to 45 to hear it while driving, but I listen to the FM radio on like 22.
Nothing much else I can say about this sorry.
You are correct. Its much much lower. My n4 on my car stereo is at like 30 compared to my wife's iPhone at 20. Through Bluetooth its a bit more normal.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda premium
I actually find my N4's headphone jack to be a bit louder than my LG G2x's; I have to turn down the speakers from where I had been setting them. (Both require a higher volume than the radio or a CD, though.)
Yea I can't even listen to music without hearing other peoples conversation on the train, Stock Android Volume has always been Low what the heck is Google smoking , the iPhone has great volume levels, I know the N4 3.5mm jack is more than capable
Had the GSM Galaxy Nexus before the N4. In my car, the volume goes from 0-40, 40 being max. On my GN I had the volume from 15 to 25, with 25 being incredibly loud. Anything above that would probably make your ears bleed.
On my N4 with the volume all of the way up and the EQ off (loudest setting) I have to turn the volume up to 40 to hear it at all. I'd say my GN at this volume level would mean my car was on 10, whereas with my N4 is has to be at 40.
The volume is MASSIVELY lower - basically unusably so. I've warrantied out my current N4 in hopes that this is a hardware problem, but after seeing threads like this, I'm beginning to wonder if it's just ridiculously low on purpose.
I don't notice it on headphones/car aux in, I do notice it on a cheap set of external speakers...I haven't found a fix.
any of you tried the volume+ app from the store? I used it on my Sony xperia and it did the trick....
Sent from my cm_tenderloin using Tapatalk 2
Atrix27 said:
Here's my issue, hooking up the phone thru the headphone jack to the aux of my benz the volume level is extremely low. I have the volume on phone all the way up. I have to turn it up extremely loud on the car volume to hear it. Is there like a child protection volume setting or? Didn't have this issue with the gnex
Thanks for any help...
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Problem solved through Bluetooth Audio: http://www.amazon.com/GOgroove-BlueGate-Wireless-Bluetooth-Headphones/dp/B00727FE5U/
my headphone goes in crooked.
Yeah.
I tried my bluetooth adapter and, while it's slightly louder, it's still not really that loud. Why do manufacturers choose to make the volume out on phones SOOOO quiet?
Also, Bluetooth audio (A2DP) always sounds so bad to me. I'd much rather have a real, physical connection.
This just seems to be what you get with Android phones. They dont get it. At 100% volume it should be as loud as the radio or CD, except its like 30% lower. My iPod touch and regular ipod were just as loud as the radio and I didnt need to adjust the volume when switching between sources, on my Android stuff I have to crank the stereo volume to unsafe levels and then hope to god I remember to turn it down before switching to the radio. If Im riding on a loud road I have to turn the volume up to like 80% to hear it, that would blow out my speakers if I switched to radio at that volume.
Android makers simply dont understand that AUX needs a pure audio signal at native db, they design the phones for headphone use and have probably never even heard of AUX.
qwahchees said:
my headphone goes in crooked.
Yeah.
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Click to collapse
lol mine is crooked too. I'll get used to it I guess
I'm having the same issue and its driving me crazy! I read somewhere to try "Volume+" but apparently its not compatible with Jelly Bean...
Low earphone volume - Solved !
My friend who is an audio engineer, measured the audio output from nexus 4.
This is what he recommended.
Use a earphone with 16 ohm impedence. (Most commercial phones are 30 ohm).
The sensitivity of the earphone must be 108 dB/mW or higher. Higher the better.
Sensitivity measures the efficiency of conversion of electrical enery into sound.
Based on this, I bought a JVC HA-F150-B. Now audio volume is practically doubled.
You can buy one at ebay for cheap prices.
i have the same problem hooking up my nexus to my car stereo through aux. at first i thought it was just the songza app, but i had no issues with it on my gnex. its to the point where its so low i had to crank my volume on phone and car stereo all the way up and it was still not even as loud as say a cd at half the volume. tried volume + which i was using on my gnex but it doesnt seem to work with my nexus 4. its so annoying .
I bought a Fiio E6 headphone amplifier and called it a day. Problem solved for me at least.
It's not a problem with the phone, it's a problem with the car receiver expecting higher voltage.
Go through the receiver manual and find out if there is a way to adjust the input voltage.
Bump.
I'm facing exactly the same. I'm coming from a cheap Huawei phone that sufferered the same problem (extremely low output, though not as clean) but before that I was using a tiny Samsung Galaxy 5 which cost £30 new and had PERFECT audio/levels on all roms.
I do most of my listening via Tunein which doesn't have any kind of built in amp which can help. I have to crank the volume to max (50 on my Blaupunkt unit) to hear it at an acceptable level, and often that isn't enough. I use radio traffic reports but god help me and the cars around me if they come in while the N4 is hooked up, it'd be deafening!
Surely this can be fixed? I understand the need for safe volumes but there's nothing safe about having to crank everything to max only to have your eardrums popped when you go to listen to the radio.
Very frustrating!!
Friends obviously a LOT of Nexus 7 owners have complained about sound issues, from obviously defective units to the simple issue of volume being inadequate for use
My question is what is "normal" on this device? anyone know a db / sound-pressure at radius specification?
other than obvious noise through a speaker, how does anyone know if their unit is "normal" ?
cognus said:
Friends obviously a LOT of Nexus 7 owners have complained about sound issues, from obviously defective units to the simple issue of volume being inadequate for use
My question is what is "normal" on this device? anyone know a db / sound-pressure at radius specification?
other than obvious noise through a speaker, how does anyone know if their unit is "normal" ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My speaker is defective, and in need of going out for repair/replacement, but the volume seems like it will be fine for my needs once the rattle/vibration is fixed. It only happens at certain frequencies, so I can still get a solid sense of the output level.
Trying to determine the exact db at a specific distance isn't going to do you much good, because it will be based on either the loudest frequency, or 1khz. The 1khz rating is somewhat reasonable to use, but what if there's a massive spike there (and on small speakers, there generally is). Say it could hit 95-100db at 1khz, it still will likely only hit about 5db at 40hz. See where I'm going with this?
I don't know, I could grab my spl meter, and run a whole series of tests at 1 meter in a quasi-anechoic environment (though it's really cold outside here), if you're really that keen on finding out precise measurements of the frequency output over the 20-20 range. Seems a little overboard for a 7" tablet though. I would consider the volume more than adequate for listening to the news, or voip calls, but there isn't a tablet that exists where I would be happy with the sound of the speakers for music.
Of course, I'm kind of picky about these things.
From what I see in the boards, there are three types of view points on the output.
1. Plenty good for normal use.
2. Terribly low for music.
3. Flat out broken, so you can only turn it up half way (the second is my current situation).
Also, don't forget that the speaker is in the back, so you'll have to keep it turned around or bouncing straight off of a hard surface, to get the full output to your ears. Some cases may also significantly reduce the output as well.
more questions: if we presume/conclude "there is a volume problem even when the speakers are not defective", then two follow-on questions:
1. is it JUST speakers?
2. combo of lousy speakers and a problem with the DSP/firmware/software/etc.... ?
I think it is 2 but I'd love to hear a root cause on the whole issue.
with SOME music sources I can get through the speakers a little bit louder response, at FULL volume max'd - than I can with MX Player on a video with the Player set on Volume Boost [200%].
in the case of MX Player, its basically worthless through the speakers both from a dynamics standpoint [obvious...] and just volume unless you are in a stone-quiet area and are craning toward the device to hear.... and you have acutely good hearing.
Then, if one is unconcerned about warranty: anyone have suggestions on replacement speaker that perhaps would help?
cognus said:
more questions: if we presume/conclude "there is a volume problem even when the speakers are not defective", then two follow-on questions:
1. is it JUST speakers?
2. combo of lousy speakers and a problem with the DSP/firmware/software/etc.... ?
I think it is 2 but I'd love to hear a root cause on the whole issue.
with SOME music sources I can get through the speakers a little bit louder response, at FULL volume max'd - than I can with MX Player on a video with the Player set on Volume Boost [200%].
in the case of MX Player, its basically worthless through the speakers both from a dynamics standpoint [obvious...] and just volume unless you are in a stone-quiet area and are craning toward the device to hear.... and you have acutely good hearing.
Then, if one is unconcerned about warranty: anyone have suggestions on replacement speaker that perhaps would help?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
#2
When I connect the Nexus 7 to my car stereo inline, via the headphone output, I get mixed results. I generally have to crank the car stereo way up, which can cause voltage induction through the 1/8" to RCA connector, if I have the Nexus charging simultaneously.
Now granted, induction of this sort is not something that is a Nexus only problem, and has more to do with the quality of cable shielding. If I move the USB charger so that it doesn't line up with the headphone output wire, the problem is reduced.
However, the issue is more that the headphone output is somewhat inconsistent, so that means that some audio will require me to turn the stereo to a level where the inductance is moot, and sometimes I will have to turn up the stereo to the point where charging and listening to audio through the car stereo is just brutal. Of course, you weren't asking specifically about car audio, but it leads to my theory.
Now, here in lies why I think it's you're "#2". If it were purely hardware, there shouldn't be that great of a difference from the headphone jack, assuming relatively similar reference volumes from the source. So software would seem to be at play here, as well as hardware.
As far as the speakers go, I don't think you'll be able to replace the internals. They're a very awkward shape, which probably doesn't help, and there is very little room in there.
Your best bet would be to find out if there is an external speaker option which can easily work for tablets. I listened to an Ipad 4 last night, and it wasn't good either. I think you have to consider the size of these things. A speaker the size of your pinky nail, can only be asked to do so much. Trying to cram one the size of your thumbnail in there, won't do much more, and just wouldn't fit.
now we're talking real issues. thank you.
yes, compared to any of my other android or pc or apple devices this one is uniquely odd
all as you have noted. inconsistent, output device matters, etc.
I admit I'm skewed by the ipad Mini - if you get a chance, sample that in terms of speaker performance. I have not access to Ipad 4 in my shop.
in my case, there is no distortion that I can observe/detect with my ears - clear enough, but there's not much substance there, oddly except for notifications which are crystal clear at full volume, if not particularly loud [my ancient droid optimus is louder - obnoxiously so which is why I keep it on vibe].
bladebarrier said:
#2
When I connect the Nexus 7 to my car stereo inline, via the headphone output, I get mixed results. I generally have to crank the car stereo way up, which can cause voltage induction through the 1/8" to RCA connector, if I have the Nexus charging simultaneously.
Now granted, induction of this sort is not something that is a Nexus only problem, and has more to do with the quality of cable shielding. If I move the USB charger so that it doesn't line up with the headphone output wire, the problem is reduced.
However, the issue is more that the headphone output is somewhat inconsistent, so that means that some audio will require me to turn the stereo to a level where the inductance is moot, and sometimes I will have to turn up the stereo to the point where charging and listening to audio through the car stereo is just brutal. Of course, you weren't asking specifically about car audio, but it leads to my theory.
Now, here in lies why I think it's you're "#2". If it were purely hardware, there shouldn't be that great of a difference from the headphone jack, assuming relatively similar reference volumes from the source. So software would seem to be at play here, as well as hardware.
As far as the speakers go, I don't think you'll be able to replace the internals. They're a very awkward shape, which probably doesn't help, and there is very little room in there.
Your best bet would be to find out if there is an external speaker option which can easily work for tablets. I listened to an Ipad 4 last night, and it wasn't good either. I think you have to consider the size of these things. A speaker the size of your pinky nail, can only be asked to do so much. Trying to cram one the size of your thumbnail in there, won't do much more, and just wouldn't fit.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When playing sounds or music at very low volume there is an interference noise that can be heard if you put the ear next to the speaker. I've tested it with the game Mystery Room. It's very annoying when you are on a quiet environment.
View issue on Google Product Forums
Listen sample on GoHear
View Youtube sample
Another thread in xda: Static / buzzing from speakers at low volumes
siraltus said:
It's because the Nexus 7 uses a crappy digital volume control that simply reduces the volume of the digital waveform before it hits the DAC, instead of having a real analog volume control -an op-amp that adjusts the volume of the signal before it hits the headphone/speaker amplifier.
What you're hearing is quantization noise as at the lowest volume the audio uses only 2-4 bits of dynamic range instead of the full 16 (or 24, dunno what DAC is in this thing). It's the same as the bit-crushing effect you hear in some dubstep and other electronic music that degrades the audio into a robotic crunchy mess, only here it's not on purpose, it's just cheap design.
There is nothing you can do about it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's already a thread about this...
Please search 1st before posting!
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2383248
Great job mod!
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda app-developers app
Thanks for consolidating everything and giving people an easier way to learn about this issue.
The best way I believe to produce the static.
Play YouTube Video > Adjust volume to mute > Listen to top speaker (portrait mode) > Then gradually increase it from mute and up
I was at a BestBuy and I was still able to hear it, the Aug/Model I bought and the floor model they had, both have the static.
<<SOLVED>> The moto G Opamp is not very efficient. It struggles to go down to 2Ohm stable. This means average earbud type headphones rated at 16Ohms. will have hiss and other artifacts. Higher impedance headphones. 40-70Ohms have much better sq. Much above 70Ohms and I suspect the Moto G won't be powerful enough to drive them.... so, that's the sweet spot!
Hey,
Since I updated to kitkta4.4.2 I notice there is a significant background hiss listening with headphones.
As soon as you use an app that activates the audio jack the hiss kicks in, it is constant, not volume dependent. If you turn the volume down to zero, but the app keeps the sound output active the hiss remains.
when the app is closed, the hiss abruptly stops (presumably when the sound API deactivates the inbuilt opamp to save battery)
I'm about 90% sure this wasn't present under 4.3 or was far less noticeable.
I'm not being picky either, this is bad enough that it would make using the phone as a walkman at a low or moderate volume unpleasant. From experience I'd estimate the hiss at approx -20dB.. this is similar to the hiss you would hear from your average desktop PC fan at idle under your desk..
can anyone test this too, on 4.3 and 4.4.2?
Oh, and use earbud headphones or good closed cup ones. Open phones, unless you are somewhere very quiet won't give a good idea of the hiss..
thanks
Can confirm this on 4.4.2, too bad I didn't see your post before updating, as I don't really remember how it was on 4.3 :/
You don't actually have to use earphones, it's noticeable through the speaker, too (well I'm in my room alone and I put my ear close to it). However, I wouldn't say it's very significant - when using earphones I can hear it when muted, on the 1st bar after mute; on the 2nd you can't really say if you hear it or is it your imagination; and on the 3rd bar it's unnoticeable.
I can't notice any hiss in 4.3, even if I use a headphone amp. No clicking sounds either when the opamp turns on.
Sent from my XT1032 using xda app-developers app
UnknownAX said:
I can't notice any hiss in 4.3, even if I use a headphone amp. No clicking sounds either when the opamp turns on.
Sent from my XT1032 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
this is what I was worried about. I didnt notice any hiss before either, and I had it connected to a car stereo so would amplify the issue (if it was there).
maybe something did change in the audio settings/drivers then. I have already tried dissablying all the dsp stuff with no luck, still the hiss and click when the opamp switches on/off.
Maybe it was there before though, and it's bad luck with the phone, rather than the OS version.
I have got UK Retail 4.4.2 and I have tried to replicate this. I have tried YouTube, Spotify Play Music and TuneIn. I do not experience a hiss!
UnknownAX said:
I can't notice any hiss in 4.3, even if I use a headphone amp. No clicking sounds either when the opamp turns on.
Sent from my XT1032 using xda app-developers app
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dhilluk said:
I have got UK Retail 4.4.2 and I have tried to replicate this. I have tried YouTube, Spotify Play Music and TuneIn. I do not experience a hiss!
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Click to collapse
Under 4.3 to save battery I disabled apps I wasn't using, including the Audio Effects app, and google play. When you disable them it forces you to 'uninstall updates' which I didnt realise at the time, but I think may have been specific to the moto g, as you cannot redownload them from playstore, or update them.
Would someone be so kind as to upload the FULL apk of their google play and and Sound Effects, from their stock 4.4.2 build?
Im pretty sure this is down to the software API that activates the opamp. (as it is very distinct), it even happens when you activate audio by using the rocker to increase the ringtone volume!?!?!???
It sounds like listening to a really cheap mp3 player with a low S/N ratio...
** edit I mean 'Play Music' not 'google play'
Hi,
I actually just registered to say this was very much present on my moto g on android 4.3 and is still the same on KitKat. It definitely sounds like a cheap mp3 player. Does anyone know of a fix?
Thanks
helppme said:
Hey,
Since I updated to kitkta4.4.2 I notice there is a significant background hiss listening with headphones.
As soon as you use an app that activates the audio jack the hiss kicks in, it is constant, not volume dependent. If you turn the volume down to zero, but the app keeps the sound output active the hiss remains.
when the app is closed, the hiss abruptly stops (presumably when the sound API deactivates the inbuilt opamp to save battery)
I'm about 90% sure this wasn't present under 4.3 or was far less noticeable.
I'm not being picky either, this is bad enough that it would make using the phone as a walkman at a low or moderate volume unpleasant. From experience I'd estimate the hiss at approx -20dB.. this is similar to the hiss you would hear from your average desktop PC fan at idle under your desk..
can anyone test this too, on 4.3 and 4.4.2?
Oh, and use earbud headphones or good closed cup ones. Open phones, unless you are somewhere very quiet won't give a good idea of the hiss..
thanks
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Click to collapse
motg-gm said:
Hi,
I actually just registered to say this was very much present on my moto g on android 4.3 and is still the same on KitKat. It definitely sounds like a cheap mp3 player. Does anyone know of a fix?
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Now this is getting weird. I think I'll install the ota to see how mine behaves. The G's audio quality decent enough imo. Probably above Android smartphone average. But what I like the most is that it's 100% silent, regardless of the volume setting, headphones or the amp.
Having said that, I will still get a USB DAC solution for it, which luckily has native support on both stock ROMs.
UnknownAX said:
Now this is getting weird. I think I'll install the ota to see how mine behaves. The G's audio quality decent enough imo. Probably above Android smartphone average. But what I like the most is that it's 100% silent, regardless of the volume setting, headphones or the amp.
Having said that, I will still get a USB DAC solution for it, which luckily has native support on both stock ROMs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is there anyway to update the phone without wifi ?? ...my friend as unlimited data but no wifi and she really wants to update ?
boe323 said:
Is there anyway to update the phone without wifi ?? ...my friend as unlimited data but no wifi and she really wants to update ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't see how this is on-topic, but of course, you can download the update either on Wi-Fi or mobile data.
I don't know what you mean with "hiss", but since I updated mine (today - uk), i have started to notice some "clicks" in musics, that i didn't have before.
I was using PlayerPro, turned off the equalizer, uninstalled and reinstalled it again, and it was solved.
Google music, had no issues.
RickPinto said:
I don't know what you mean with "hiss", but since I updated mine (today - uk), i have started to notice some "clicks" in musics, that i didn't have before.
I was using PlayerPro, turned off the equalizer, uninstalled and reinstalled it again, and it was solved.
Google music, had no issues.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
by hiss, I mean hiss. It is probably around 18KHz, and is similar tot he sound of RF interference on a stereo (alsmost like the snow screen sound on a tv).
It is not volume dependent so it is defenitely downstream from the DAC, and must be the opamp or downsteram from the opamp in the phone. It is most likely from a poor ground some where in the audio path (assuming the opamp isn't awful, anyone know the chip?). It could be due to the single board set up of the Moto G mainboard design. I'm guessing here, but if the PCB has the audio channel close to any of the ground of power channels, this would explain my hiss. If it is built to tight tollerance, this could also explain why some people have it, others don't.
In laymans terms, I'm saying the audio signal is 'dirty. If anyone has every used a PC with crappy audio on the motherboard, they will know exactly what this problem is like. When no program is using the audio driver, the board puts the audio to 'sleep', when you open a program that uses that audio driver, the audio wakes up and you get some hiss, noise through the audio and pc speakers. This is exactly what I experience with my moto G.
if im honest, it's unlistenable, however I'm a bit of an audiophile so I can appreciate for most people they won't see it as a problem..
helppme said:
if im honest, it's unlistenable, however I'm a bit of an audiophile so I can appreciate for most people they won't see it as a problem..
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Click to collapse
I found 4.3 to already be noisy with the hiss when using my earphones, which have a low attenuation and so even low volumes sound loud on them. To get around this problem I bought an attenuator which connects between the phone and the earphones. Then I set the phone audio to maximum, and reduced the volume using the attenuator. Setting the phone audio to loud means the hiss volume is low compared to the volume of the sound coming out of the phone.
This is the attenuator I use:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B008EWP07E
RickPinto said:
I don't know what you mean with "hiss", but since I updated mine (today - uk), i have started to notice some "clicks" in musics, that i didn't have before.
I was using PlayerPro, turned off the equalizer, uninstalled and reinstalled it again, and it was solved.
Google music, had no issues.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
superusr said:
I found 4.3 to already be noisy with the hiss when using my earphones, which have a low attenuation and so even low volumes sound loud on them. To get around this problem I bought an attenuator which connects between the phone and the earphones. Then I set the phone audio to maximum, and reduced the volume using the attenuator. Setting the phone audio to loud means the hiss volume is low compared to the volume of the sound coming out of the phone.
This is the attenuator I use:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B008EWP07E
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
this is a possibility, but its not ideal... sadly this is looking like a hardware issue not a software one though as if it was software, I'd expect it to be upstream of the opamp. The fact your attenuator solution works, is more evidence this is a downstream issue . (as implification induced noise increases with the square of the volume (assuming a logarithmic volume scale))
I'm on 4.4. I notice a slight hiss when music is coming out of the phones speaker, though its completely undetectable if the phone is at around half volume. No hiss when coming through headphones.
Sent from my XT1034 using xda app-developers app
Ravinxx said:
I'm on 4.4. I notice a slight hiss when music is coming out of the phones speaker, though its completely undetectable if the phone is at around half volume. No hiss when coming through headphones.
Sent from my XT1034 using xda app-developers app
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Click to collapse
Please can you test something, with some sensitive in ear headphones (or in a quiet room if they are normal headphones.)
>Connect headphones to phone
>Make sure ALL apps are closed.
>turn the phones ring volume to zero
>you should hear silence.(regardless of what headphone volume is)
>On the home screen, Press the Up volume rocker 3 times quite quickly.
>On my phone, the headphones go from silent to Hiss, then I hear the 'Beep'.....'Beep' of the volume increase on top of the hiss. Wait 2 seconds after the second beep and you hear the Hiss abruptly stop, and you are back to silent.
I have this problem with all audio activity on the phone, but the ringtone volume trick is the easiest way to demonstrate it.
helppme said:
Please can you test something, with some sensitive in ear headphones (or in a quiet room if they are normal headphones.)
>Connect headphones to phone
>Make sure ALL apps are closed.
>turn the phones ring volume to zero
>you should hear silence.(regardless of what headphone volume is)
>On the home screen, Press the Up volume rocker 3 times quite quickly.
>On my phone, the headphones go from silent to Hiss, then I hear the 'Beep'.....'Beep' of the volume increase on top of the hiss. Wait 2 seconds after the second beep and you hear the Hiss abruptly stop, and you are back to silent.
I have this problem with all audio activity on the phone, but the ringtone volume trick is the easiest way to demonstrate it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Or even easier, just press the volume down or up button once in any direction with headphones plugged in. Regardless of what it was set to and becomes set to, you will hear a faint background hum/hiss be emitted through the headphones for a second. This is fairly normal on any phone and even most audio devices. I don't know what you expect really in a smart phone that costs £129 in the UK. It is a compact environment to build so much electronics into and will never be a hifi device.
I tested with 3 phones on my desk right now and they all have a hiss when you first do something to make audio come through the headphones like quickly play and then pause a track. In fact, one phone (Samsung Galaxy Ace Plus) has not only a hiss, but a screech/high pitched whine as well. All of these "noises" that are detectable, become undetectable when volume of anything is turned up past the first or second bar anyway.
Ravinxx said:
I'm on 4.4. I notice a slight hiss when music is coming out of the phones speaker, though its completely undetectable if the phone is at around half volume. No hiss when coming through headphones.
Sent from my XT1034 using xda app-developers app
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Click to collapse
coursemyhorse said:
Or even easier, just press the volume down or up button once in any direction with headphones plugged in. Regardless of what it was set to and becomes set to, you will hear a faint background hum/hiss be emitted through the headphones for a second. This is fairly normal on any phone and even most audio devices. I don't know what you expect really in a smart phone that costs £129 in the UK. It is a compact environment to build so much electronics into and will never be a hifi device.
I tested with 3 phones on my desk right now and they all have a hiss when you first do something to make audio come through the headphones like quickly play and then pause a track. In fact, one phone (Samsung Galaxy Ace Plus) has not only a hiss, but a screech/high pitched whine as well. All of these "noises" that are detectable, become undetectable when volume of anything is turned up past the first or second bar anyway.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is a fair point, and I agree is not surprising given the phones price. I think the reason I have posed this question was to a) determine if it could be software related (4.3 vs 4.4.2) but It doesn't looks so. b) Is it universal, or could be a slight lottery and maybe my phone is worse than others. As some people say they definitely have no issue. (granted it could be subjective)
Also, I would say, although it is present in most devices to some degree, it is noticeably worse on this phone than any other I have had. Multiple sony erricsons, galaxy Ace, Nokias.. And my last phone Galaxy S2 had extremely clean audio production. (i compared directly with moto g).
I do concede I am an audio snob though, so don't like listening to poor quality. I never really expected to use the moto g for music, but would have been a nice to have.
helppme said:
This is a fair point, and I agree is not surprising given the phones price. I think the reason I have posed this question was to a) determine if it could be software related (4.3 vs 4.4.2) but It doesn't looks so. b) Is it universal, or could be a slight lottery and maybe my phone is worse than others. As some people say they definitely have no issue. (granted it could be subjective)
Also, I would say, although it is present in most devices to some degree, it is noticeably worse on this phone than any other I have had. Multiple sony erricsons, galaxy Ace, Nokias.. And my last phone Galaxy S2 had extremely clean audio production. (i compared directly with moto g).
I do concede I am an audio snob though, so don't like listening to poor quality. I never really expected to use the moto g for music, but would have been a nice to have.
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Click to collapse
Yeah, it seems to me too that you are a bit more on the audio than most people
By the way, I was wondering up to which levels can you really say that you hear the hiss? As I've said before, for me it's definite hiss when muted and 1st level, weird feeling on the 2nd and I can't hear it from the 3rd.
theArchitektas said:
Yeah, it seems to me too that you are a bit more on the audio than most people
By the way, I was wondering up to which levels (just the volume slider, no music) can you really say that you hear the hiss? As I've said before, for me it's definite hiss when muted and 1st level, weird feeling on the 2nd and I can't hear it from the 3rd.
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Depends on the music. pop music which has a lot of mids and highs, the hiss isnt noticible from notch 4 up maybe.
Quiet music, classical, R&B & hihop with a lot of bass beats but not many highs, you can hear the background his up to maybe 2 notches off max. But its acceptable from maybe half volume.
tbh it's more of a shame than an issue. I didn't expect this to replace a decent mp3 player, would just have been convenient is all.