Good day,
For the new battery owners and frequent questions of charging and prolonging/maintaining your battery.
Here are some information from other websites. Just for the sake of laziness and Google-ing :highfive:
I know most of you guys already knows this. Yes, I know. These are reminders that you should.
Please do not flame or criticize my thread. I am just here to help. Thank you!
1.) It's not necessary to charge over 12 hours when first used. When a device powered by batteries is purchased, sellers will usually tell us the batteries must first be charged 12 hours before using. Actually, this is unnecessary. Unlike common Ni-CD or Ni-MH batteries, most lithium ion batteries have been activated before leaving the factory. Due to its low self-discharge, it’s unnecessary to charge lithium ion battery for such a long time when new. Lithium ion batteries are ready for use after the charger indicates so, and it will reach its best capacity after 3 or 5 cycles
2.) Don’t use an inappropriate charger. Many people care greatly about their electronic gadgets, but often neglect the consequences of bad chargers on their lithium ion batteries. When choosing a charger, the original charger is the best choice. If that's unavailable, a high quality charger that has an over charge protection function, or a brand name charger will do. A low quality battery charger can lead to shorter run times, premature battery failure, or even cause a fire or explosion.
3.) Avoid touching metal contacts. All batteries' contacts need to be kept clean for best performance. Do not let battery contacts touch metal objects such as keys when carrying them around, it can cause a short circuit, damaging the battery or potentially resulting in a fire or an explosion.
4.) Avoid often use in high or low temperature environment. Lithium ion batteries have an optimal working and storage temperature. If they're continually used an extreme temperature environment, it will negatively affect the lithium ion battery’s use time and useful cycles.
5.) Avoid long time without use or recharge. If you don't need to use your personal electronic gadgets for a long time where the lithium ion battery might be to left unused for 3 months or more, partially recharge the lithium ion battery, then store the device (recharge the battery to around 30-70% of capacity, depending on storage time) to prevent battery damage. You may need to take the device out of storage and charge again after a few months.
6.) Avoid use lithium ion battery which is hot after being fully charged. Temperatures can be very high after the battery is freshly recharged. If you use it immediately, the electronic gadget’s internal temperature will rise, and can negatively affect the device's electronic components.
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XDA Users' Recommendation:
@apallohadas
DO NOT turn off your phone to charge the battery. This is completely unnecessary as the protection is built into the battery, not the phone.
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@adytum
Nice thread, and thank god you didn't mention anything about wiping battery stats
To prevent confusion, I suggest you remove the part about overcharging in case of lacking overcharge protection, since practically every phone has it, and thus prevent the type of semantic discussion that was going on here.
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@m4xwellmurd3r
I wanted to add that I think the reason people think they need to charge the phone, then turn it off and charge it more and repeat comes from older android phones. The OG Evo was very bad with its battery stats and even if the phone was discharging it would continue to state 100% when it was plugged in. A bad cable caused my girlfriends phone to drain low enough that it couldnt be charged in the phone because the os never thought it was below 100%.
The old evo would shut off its charge circuit at 100% and kick it back on at 90%, but never show that it had discharged any. This resulted in massive percieved drain after unplugging the phone.
By charging it to 100 while on, unplugging and turning off, then charging back up while off, and repeating the process till the charging to charged indicator had a shortened delay, the battery would last longer because it calibrated not the battery, but androids internal battery states that indicated what its true 100% mark was.
But the systems ability to learn what voltages indicate 100% and 0% have become much better from what I can tell, and using that outdated method to force android to learn the min max points is now pointless.
The other issue was the old evo didnt trickle charge. From 100% it totally kicked the charge circuit off, and at 90% kicked it back on, while never reporting anything below 100% when the cable was plugged in.
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Question:
If I am not going to use my battery for a long period of time, what should I do?
Answer:
Be sure the battery is above 40%
Put the battery in an air sealed zip locked bag and place it inside the refrigerator but not the freezer!
This will slow down the deterioration of the battery.
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Credits to:
WikiHow
XDA-Developers
CandlePowerForums
Google
Applications To Give You Better Battery Life
Greenify
Greenify helps you identify and put the bad behaving apps into hibernation when you are not using them, to stop them from lagging your device and leeching the battery, in an unique way! They can do nothing without explicit launch by you or other apps, while still preserving full functionality when running in foreground, similar to iOS apps!
DisableService
Disable Service helps you to disable services running in the background such as "push service" ,"upload service" or "pull ad service" and so on.
Wakelock Detector
”Wakelock Detector” helps you to detect battery consuming applications in your Android device by checking wakelock usage history. Now you can find out which applications drain your battery in a simple way by using this app!
SystemCleanup
*best system / cache cleaner in market ;o) hold your system clean and free of bloatware. disable autostart / autorun of apps and services. Also tells what applications are safe to freeze with descriptions.
Applications suggested by @Memphis_
Autorun Manager
Autorun Manager (formerly Autorun Killer) is an ultimate tool that lets you disable all the autostarting apps you don't need. Unfortunately this app is misunderstood many times so please read help carefully and/or mail the developer if you have questions.
Autostarts
Keep control over your phone: See what applications do behind your back.
Shows you what apps run on phone startup, and what other events trigger in the background. Root users can disable unwanted autostarts and speed up their phone boot.
I would add:
DO NOT turn off your phone to charge the battery. This is completely unnecessary as the protection is built into the battery, not the phone.
apallohadas said:
I would add:
DO NOT turn off your phone to charge the battery. This is completely unnecessary as the protection is built into the battery, not the phone.
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Thanks. Added to the OP.
Simone said:
Thanks. Added to the OP.
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Define over charging
ksc6000 said:
Define over charging
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Continuous charging of the battery after it reaches full charge.
Generally, overcharging will have a harmful influence on the performance of the battery which could lead to unsafe conditions.
It should therefore be avoided.
Simone said:
Continuous charging of the battery after it reaches full charge.
Generally, overcharging will have a harmful influence on the performance of the battery which could lead to unsafe conditions.
It should therefore be avoided.
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Not to belittle the intent of the contribution and all, but you contradict yourself, and the majority of the info provided is completely inapplicable to the application.
It's dismaying to see battery technology reduced to superstitious ritual.
Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
G.Reaper said:
Not to belittle the intent of the contribution and all, but you contradict yourself, and the majority of the info provided is completely inapplicable to the application.
It's dismaying to see battery technology reduced to superstitious ritual.
Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
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I'm actually trying to get out of the ritual.
G.Reaper said:
Not to belittle the intent of the contribution and all, but you contradict yourself, and the majority of the info provided is completely inapplicable to the application.
It's dismaying to see battery technology reduced to superstitious ritual.
Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
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Actually, the majority is pretty spot on and does much to get people away from the rituals of draining batteries unnecessarily and other practices meant for other battery technologies.
You could be helpful by constructively adding, you know.
apallohadas said:
Actually, the majority is pretty spot on and does much to get people away from the rituals of draining batteries unnecessarily and other practices meant for other battery technologies.
You could be helpful by constructively adding, you know.
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Just because you asked so nicely.
Simone said:
2.) Don’t use an inappropriate charger. Many people care greatly about their electronic gadgets, but often neglect the consequences of bad chargers on their lithium ion batteries. When choosing a charger, the original charger is the best choice. If that's unavailable, a high quality charger that has an over charge protection function, or a brand name charger will do. A low quality battery charger can lead to shorter run times, premature battery failure, or even cause a fire or explosion.
3.) Avoid frequently over charging. Over charging with a low quality charger may let the battery's interior rise to a high temperature, which is bad for the lithium ion battery and charger. Thus, simply fully charging is good enough - overcharging will make your lithium battery into a little bomb if over charge protection function is missing.
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and
Simone said:
Continuous charging of the battery after it reaches full charge.
Generally, overcharging will have a harmful influence on the performance of the battery which could lead to unsafe conditions.
It should therefore be avoided.
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are at odds.
I'd be interested to see your source(s) for the charging behavior of the integrated circuitry once the battery is full and the negative impacts thereof. I'm not saying that overcharging a cell isn't bad. But the battery in your phone has ic, regulating the exposure to the cell. Meaning that given that self-discharge is a characteristic of Li ion batteries, overcharge doesn't seem to be a likely concern.
Additionally, if the protection ic is in the battery, why would you need a charger with built in charge protection? This is info from hobby cells, which are bare Li ion cells. You really think the usb wall wart samsung ships you is anything more than an ac to dc, step down voltage converter? I'm open to evidence to the contrary.
The danger in Li ion is typically in in over discharge, and in charging too quickly, resulting in a cycle of increasing uncontrolled internal resistance, potentially causing combustion. The charge rate should be protected by the battery's ic, and as the battery will say it's empty before breaching the threshold of damaging discharge, it just translates to "don't leave the thing alone in a drawer for a long time with no charge", which you effectively covered.
And what's not mentioned, is that no matter what you do, no matter the obsessive charging ritual you observe, current Li ion technologies will see a roughly 10% decrease in performance per year.
Don't worry about your battery and charge it as much as you want over charge it at night. Then buy a new one a year later after that one you will have a new phone. No worries.
Sent from my GT-N7105 using xda app-developers app
dazza7111 said:
Don't worry about your battery and charge it as much as you want over charge it at night. Then buy a new one a year later after that one you will have a new phone. No worries.
Sent from my GT-N7105 using xda app-developers app
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Exactly!
G.Reaper said:
Just because you asked so nicely.
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I ask because it's easier to be sarcastic on the internet than to be helpful.
I'd be interested to see your source(s) for the charging behavior of the integrated circuitry once the battery is full and the negative impacts thereof. I'm not saying that overcharging a cell isn't bad. But the battery in your phone has ic, regulating the exposure to the cell. Meaning that given that self-discharge is a characteristic of Li ion batteries, overcharge doesn't seem to be a likely concern.
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Normally I would agree, but some of the overcharging advice I've seen here includes charging the phone to full, then shutting it off, and letting it charge for hours longer. All in an attempt to circumvent safeguards. Weird yes, ritualistic, sure, will Samsung get blamed if the battery melts? Definitely.
Pretty good article on Lithium based batteries:
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
The danger in Li ion is typically in in over discharge, and in charging too quickly, resulting in a cycle of increasing uncontrolled internal resistance, potentially causing combustion. The charge rate should be protected by the battery's ic, and as the battery will say it's empty before breaching the threshold of damaging discharge, it just translates to "don't leave the thing alone in a drawer for a long time with no charge", which you effectively covered.
And what's not mentioned, is that no matter what you do, no matter the obsessive charging ritual you observe, current Li ion technologies will see a roughly 10% decrease in performance per year.
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And what you said fairly agrees with the article. (Depending on charging habits of course.)
apallohadas said:
Normally I would agree, but some of the overcharging advice I've seen here includes charging the phone to full, then shutting it off, and letting it charge for hours longer. All in an attempt to circumvent safeguards. Weird yes, ritualistic, sure, will Samsung get blamed if the battery melts? Definitely.
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That won't really do anything. Logically, if the phone's off, there won't be a load on the battery, thus it's free to charge at the maximum rate as controlled by the ic. But, that doesn't mean it'll end up any different at 100% from charging with the phone on.
Again I reference the fact that the battery contains the control circuitry, not the phone.
G.Reaper said:
That won't really do anything. Logically, if the phone's off, there won't be a load on the battery, thus it's free to charge at the maximum rate as controlled by the ic. But, that doesn't mean it'll end up any different at 100% from charging with the phone on.
Again I reference the fact that the battery contains the control circuitry, not the phone.
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I don't recall saying anything to the contrary.
apallohadas said:
I don't recall saying anything to the contrary.
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You wrote "DO NOT turn off the phone while charging" - it doesn't matter whether you do or not.
Anyway, my point was just that points 2 and 3 are wrong given the application and should be omitted as they taint the rest of the information.
G.Reaper said:
You wrote "DO NOT turn off the phone while charging" - it doesn't matter whether you do or not.
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I responded directly to your statement:
you said:
Again I reference the fact that the battery contains the control circuitry, not the phone.
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At least attempt to not misquote me. It's like you argue just to argue even when in agreement.
If you don't like the thread, rate it 1 star and just keep on moving.
That simple.
G.Reaper said:
I'd be interested to see your source(s) for the charging behavior of the integrated circuitry once the battery is full and the negative impacts thereof. I'm not saying that overcharging a cell isn't bad. But the battery in your phone has ic, regulating the exposure to the cell. Meaning that given that self-discharge is a characteristic of Li ion batteries, overcharge doesn't seem to be a likely concern.
Additionally, if the protection ic is in the battery, why would you need a charger with built in charge protection? This is info from hobby cells, which are bare Li ion cells. You really think the usb wall wart samsung ships you is anything more than an ac to dc, step down voltage converter? I'm open to evidence to the contrary.
The danger in Li ion is typically in in over discharge, and in charging too quickly, resulting in a cycle of increasing uncontrolled internal resistance, potentially causing combustion. The charge rate should be protected by the battery's ic, and as the battery will say it's empty before breaching the threshold of damaging discharge, it just translates to "don't leave the thing alone in a drawer for a long time with no charge", which you effectively covered.
And what's not mentioned, is that no matter what you do, no matter the obsessive charging ritual you observe, current Li ion technologies will see a roughly 10% decrease in performance per year.
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Click to collapse
I second that. Android devices en mass use integrated chargers and protected batteries. In that case using cheap charger could possibly demage buildin charger rather than battery itself.
And almost all wall chargers for phone and tablets are simple power source. An modern one with ac-dc IC regulators but still act as ordinary power source.
Wysyłane z mojego GT-N7100 za pomocą Tapatalk 2
dazza7111 said:
Don't worry about your battery and charge it as much as you want over charge it at night. Then buy a new one a year later after that one you will have a new phone. No worries.
Sent from my GT-N7105 using xda app-developers app
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I agree 100%.
Although most advices in the OP are correct I don't agree there is a thing like "overcharging" - there is a circuity to prevent charging when the battery is fully charged.
So avoid myths, just use your device, batteries are not that expensive
Related
Hello All,
First, let me just thank everyone on these threads for all the knowledge they have imparted to me! Thank you!
Now to my question: If I have my charger with me, is it best to keep the evo on and connected to a power source as often as possible? Or is it better to charge it once until the battery is full and then not plug it back in until the battery flashes the "battery low" message?
A friend and I were having a disagreement over this question and we couldn't think of any reasonable way to answer this question. I know that between our two MacBooks, which I understand might have a completely different type of battery, mine definitely gets much more battery life and I am convinced that this is because I have it constantly plugged in (though again, I'm not sure that this is true).
I will greatly appreciate your input on this matter!
Thank you.
http://www.batteryuniversity.com/parttwo-34.htm
Check this Thread http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=694441
For the record:
Simple Guidelines
Avoid frequent full discharges because this puts additional strain on the battery. Several partial discharges with frequent recharges are better for lithium-ion than one deep one. Recharging a partially charged lithium-ion does not cause harm because there is no memory. (In this respect, lithium-ion differs from nickel-based batteries.) Short battery life in a laptop is mainly cause by heat rather than charge / discharge patterns.
Batteries with fuel gauge (laptops) should be calibrated by applying a deliberate full discharge once every 30 charges. Running the pack down in the equipment does this. If ignored, the fuel gauge will become increasingly less accurate and in some cases cut off the device prematurely.
Keep the lithium-ion battery cool. Avoid a hot car. For prolonged storage, keep the battery at a 40% charge level.
Consider removing the battery from a laptop when running on fixed power. (Some laptop manufacturers are concerned about dust and moisture accumulating inside the battery casing.)
Avoid purchasing spare lithium-ion batteries for later use. Observe manufacturing dates. Do not buy old stock, even if sold at clearance prices.
If you have a spare lithium-ion battery, use one to the fullest and keep the other cool by placing it in the refrigerator. Do not freeze the battery. For best results, store the battery at 40% state-of-charge.
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(via above source)
Thanks!
I've been seeing "Battery Calibration" a lot lately especially with custom Roms and how to improve battery life. Here is great info on prolonging battery life for your epic. And what NOT TO DO!
Forgive me if this is in the wrong section of the forum but I saw a lot here on this topic so I thought I would share the information I have.
Lithium Ion batteries DO NOT NEED TO BE CALIBRATED. Forgive me for yelling but I can't stress it enough. The current lithium ion batteries for your computer and most of all, your Samsung Epic4g do not have an internal memory. All they have is an internal chip that prevents them from overcharging, and of course the cells for the Lithium Ion process to occur.
Nickel Cadmium or NiCad batteries do have an internal memory that acts much like a fuel gauge in your vehicle, it tells the battery small information on % charge etc.
Your Samsung Epic 4G has to interpret the amount of charge left and % from your battery. That's why it saves battery stats. It really works by averages and the only thing the battery tells the phone is "I'm Full!" when it reaches 100%. or "I'm Dead!" when the cells are empty. Your phone does the rest and interprets to you in % how much life is left in that battery.
Someone got the not so bright idea of calibrating the battery, maybe because it worked on a NiCad battery, maybe it should work on a Lithium Ion battery? WRONG!
Lithium Ion batteries have a prescribed life. The average life of a 1500mAh battery is around 2000-3000 charges. The reason behind this is the Lithium Cells become unstable and are prone to explosion.
So, every time you fully discharge your battery and recharge it, you just shortened the overall life of your battery. And if you're one of those people who discharge and recharges 3 times consecutively, you're really messing up your battery. Heat is the biggest enemy of Lithium Ion Batteries, if they get too hot, from forced discharges they actually develop tiny crystals on the inside of the cells that prevent it from being truly 100% charged.
So, in reality your phone is telling you your battery is 100% charged when it is only 85% fully charged inside the battery.
Please, please, please, do not discharge your battery and consecutively recharge it again. I love my epic and I hate to see other epics abused like that.
If you want to prolong your battery life follow these short and simple steps:
1. The closer you keep your phone to 100% the longer it will live.
2. Avoid unnecessary discharges to 0%.
3. Charge your phone when it is off, not in standby. - Charging in standby causes unwanted heat.
4. Unplug your battery when it's fully charged. - Sure, that "Battery 100% Full" message is annoying, but maybe it was put there for a reason? Hmm.
5. Wipe your battery stats weekly, only after a full power off charge, or Rom Change
6. Avoid doing anything that heats up your phone. - Sure WiFi Tethering and BlueTooth Tethering is awesome, but it heats up the phone in most cases, this will destroy your battery.
I can't post the link because I don't have enough posts. But go to google , search "battery university" and then look for lithium ion batteries.
I am a computer science / electrical engineer and I have done extensive research in batteries and mobile devices.
Please save those batteries!
-George
Interesting post. Thanks!
Sent from my Emotionlessly Bonsai'd Epic 4g.
A cycle is a cycle friend, whether dropping to 50% twice or dropping to 0% once ... it is still a registered cycle. Below is the best write up I have came across concerning battery care. Still trying to figure out the purpose of this thread however, if you are insinuating that a batt stat reset and full charge to discharge is not helpfull after a kernel change (voltage change) then you are sorely mistaken, it WILL, I repeat WILL cause your device to not register the true charge state of your battery unless you do so. And if your phone is not monitoring your battery correctly it could negate symbiance between your batt and your device.
Wiping your stats without a full discharge is useless btw. In the fact that one of the few things your post was accurate on is that the only two way communications between battery and device happen at full and empty. Would probably do a lot of good if this thread wrought with misinformation was deleted. Just in case it is not a really good caresheet is as follows.
============================
Lithium Ion Battery Care
Batteries are made to be used, so use them.
Just like couch potatoes, batteries need exercise. The chemicals in Lithium-Ion batteries respond best to regular recharging. So if you have a laptop, don’t keep it plugged in all the time; go ahead and let it drain to about 40 or 50 percent of capacity, and then recharge your computer.
The life of a Lithium-Ion battery can be measured in charge cycles. A charge cycle occurs when 100% of a battery’s capacity is used. Let’s say you use 50% of your laptop’s battery one day, charge it overnight, and then you use 50% of the battery again the next day. Even after charging it back up again, you’ll have only had one charge cycle occur. Most laptop batteries are rated for a useful life of at least 300-500 charge cycles, but high-quality, properly maintained batteries can retain up to 80% of their original life, even after 300 cycles.
Periodically calibrate your battery.
Most batteries that have a “fuel gauge”, like those in laptops, should be periodically discharged to zero. This can be accomplished simply by letting your computer run until it reports a low-battery state and suspends itself. (Do not let your computer deep discharge, as I’ll explain in the next item.)
The gauge that measures the remaining power in your laptop is based on circuitry integrated into the battery that approximates the effectiveness of the battery’s chemical compounds. Over time, a discrepancy can develop between the capacity that the internal circuitry expects the battery to have and what the battery can actually provide. Letting your computer run down to zero every month or so can recalibrate the battery’s circuitry, and keep your computer’s estimates of its remaining life accurate.
Don’t practice so-called deep discharges.
Most laptops will suspend operation if the battery drains too low. Even if your computer goes to sleep, though, most batteries that are in good working order will still have a reserve charge available. This reserve will hold the computer’s working memory in state for a little while. A deep discharge has occurred when even that percentage of reserve power is used up. The computer will have turned off completely, and sometimes you’ll notice that it will have lost track of the correct date and time. Deep discharges will strain your batteries, so try to charge them frequently.
Avoid exposing your battery to heat (when possible).
Heat can overexcite the chemicals in your battery, shortening its overall lifespan. In fact, it’s been speculated that the biggest cause of early battery expiration is the heat that batteries can be exposed to when they’re stored in computers that are running off AC power. Laptops — especially modern multi-core machines — can get very hot when they’re plugged in, easily over 100 degrees Fahrenheit. That’s hot enough that extended exposure will negatively affect your battery. If you want to be really protective, there’s nothing saying that you can’t pop the battery out of your laptop if you’re going to be within reach of a power outlet for a while.
There may be times that you can’t help but expose your laptop battery to heat; you may live in a warm climate, for instance. You can, however, try and avoid exacerbating the issue. Make sure your laptop is well ventilated and that you’re not operating it on a surface that retains heat, even when you’re not plugged into mains power.
Store your batteries properly.
If your laptop or portable device isn’t going to be used for a while, you should remove its Lithium-Ion battery, if possible. Even if the battery can’t be separated from the device, it should be stored in a cool environment at about one-half charge. Cool temperature is recommended by experts because that can slow the natural discharge that batteries will undergo even when they’re disconnected from their device.
I’ve seen some people go even further and recommend that spare batteries be stored in the refrigerator. I don’t think this is a very good idea; I’m concerned about condensation that might build up. Don’t put your batteries on ice, but keep them out of the sun.
Ultimately, I believe that buying spare Li-Ion batteries is a losing game, because the batteries start degrading as soon as they’re manufactured. Usually those spare batteries spend most of their time sitting in a charger, losing useful life. If you need to be really mobile, you’re better off purchasing an adapter cable you can use with the power sources available in planes, trains, or autos. And, of course, by taking good care of the battery you already have."
One question in regards to your post. I currently use the desk top cradle to plug in when I get home, will this mess with the battery too? It was made by Samsung I am confused as to why they would make something to use with your epic if it will hurt the battery.
HeisRisen said:
A cycle is a cycle friend, whether dropping to 50% twice or dropping to 0% once ... it is still a registered cycle. Below is the best write up I have came across concerning battery care. Still trying to figure out the purpose of this thread however, if you are insinuating that a batt stat reset and full charge to discharge is not helpfull after a kernel change (voltage change) then you are sorely mistaken, it WILL, I repeat WILL cause your device to not register the true charge state of your battery unless you do so. And if your phone is not monitoring your battery correctly it could negate symbiance between your batt and your device.
Wiping your stats without a full discharge is useless btw. In the fact that one of the few things your post was accurate on is that the only two way communications between battery and device happen at full and empty. Would probably do a lot of good if this thread wrought with misinformation was deleted. Just in case it is not a really good caresheet is as follows."
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Click to collapse
Don't quite know if you're trying to "one-up" me on battery life, but this post is not misinformation, I am trying to explain in layman's terms on how a battery communicates with the phone. I don't need to cite my academic pedigree and be all "scientific" about saving battery life.
The point of this thread is an answer to all the threats I've seen on improving battery life and the countless posts I've seen on fully discharging a Lithium Ion Battery to "calibrate it"
The point I don't quite understand about your reply to this thread is that it just restates what I already pointed out only it's longer. Maybe if you have more words than me it makes you smarter...
but I stand corrected, I did mean a wipe of battery stats after a Rom Change and Only after a full power off charge, not intermittently.
but...
"one of the few things my post was accurate on" - Hmm, if it's an inaccurate post to you, just report it. - I assure you these are not claims and theories but pure fact.
I'm not here to get into a pissing contest about battery life, I'm just posting here to help people...
emalia said:
One question in regards to your post. I currently use the desk top cradle to plug in when I get home, will this mess with the battery too? It was made by Samsung I am confused as to why they would make something to use with your epic if it will hurt the battery.
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I would advise that as long as you are charging your Epic in the cradle while it is not powered on, then you'll be perfectly fine. Charging it while it is powered on will cause unnecessary heat.
And I finally accumulated enough posts to cite my sources:
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
I have to say that Laptop batteries are a lot different than cellphone batteries, the "do a full discharge after a few weeks" works great for a laptop battery but I would not do this with a cell phone battery. They just aren't the same internally. Laptop batteries are a bit more sophisticated.
actually, lithium ion batteries are best kept at about 50%, not 100
This thread is simply a point of ignorance about what is being described when people talk about "calibrating a battery" on an android phone. The process is not actually about calibrating the battery. It actually calibrates how the software reads battery information. You do see better battery life after going through it, but nothing has changed about the battery.
If you've ever flashed a ROM and suddenly found the battery to significantly higher or lower percentage displayed in the software meter, or if you found the battery seems to drain more quickly than previous(it doesn't, the phone just shows higher than actual charge to start), those are symptoms of poorly or not-at-all calibrated situations. The "battery calibration" process is a fix for that.
And OP, I'd say your understanding is rudimentary at best. While its true that Li-ion batteries don't "have a memory" (no batteries "have a memory", the memory effect was a result of the chemical process used by some batteries), li-ion batteries do show better usable lifetimes when charged according to certain standards. Again, its a matter of how the chemical process works and what wear the battery's internals develop depending on it is used.
akijikan said:
This thread is simply a point of ignorance about what is being described when people talk about "calibrating a battery" on an android phone. The process is not actually about calibrating the battery. It actually calibrates how the software reads battery information. You do see better battery life after going through it, but nothing has changed about the battery.
If you've ever flashed a ROM and suddenly found the battery to significantly higher or lower percentage displayed in the software meter, or if you found the battery seems to drain more quickly than previous(it doesn't, the phone just shows higher than actual charge to start), those are symptoms of poorly or not-at-all calibrated situations. The "battery calibration" process is a fix for that.
And OP, I'd say your understanding is rudimentary at best. While its true that Li-ion batteries don't "have a memory" (no batteries "have a memory", the memory effect was a result of the chemical process used by some batteries), li-ion batteries do show better usable lifetimes when charged according to certain standards. Again, its a matter of how the chemical process works and what wear the battery's internals develop depending on it is used.
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Once again, I'm not in here to get into a specifics and scientific pissing contest on how batteries work, I just put a guide on how to improve your battery longevity.
Not everyone in here is an electro-chemical engineer with a concentration in battery physics. Or whatever. So, stop ripping apart my post with your blabbering physics. Just because I have a low amount of posts makes me inferior to you?
I'm sorry you sensed hostility in my post. But don't ignore what I'm saying about battery calibration.
I think Aki is right, we aren't calibrating our battery, we are resetting battery stats the software keeps. The reason we recommend this is b/c when folks change ROM's some can get miserable battery life in practice until they reset the stats. An experienced dev can tell you why, but it is a common enough fact to warrant wiping battery stats when switching ROM's.
Sent from my Epic 4G on XDA App
akijikan said:
I'm sorry you sensed hostility in my post. But don't ignore what I'm saying about battery calibration.
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It was a bit hostile... I enjoy a good debate and rational thought though, I understand what you're saying, I'm not trying to get into the specifics, but it seems a lot of users are doing this "process" too much, and personally I don't think you should do it at all. I think you should do a full recharge (powered off, not discharge) then wipe battery stats. Period. No need for a discharge to 0.
People, this guy is just trying to help. There is no need to be rude. We are all on this form trying help each other. This whole idea is hurt when someone posts something and gets attacked. There is no need to call someone ignorant if you don't agree
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
codest3r said:
I think Aki is right, we aren't calibrating our battery, we are resetting battery stats the software keeps. The reason we recommend this is b/c when folks change ROM's some can get miserable battery life in practice until they reset the stats. An experienced dev can tell you why, but it is a common enough fact to warrant wiping battery stats when switching ROM's.
Sent from my Epic 4G on XDA App
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Personally, I've gotten the best battery life when I do what I just posted above. Which is a powered off charge to 100% then a battery stats wipe. Viola, no need to discharge all the way to 0 and back to 100. It just tears up your battery in my experience.
tatoniss said:
People, this guy is just trying to help. There is no need to be rude. We are all on this form trying help each other. This whole idea is hurt when someone posts something and gets attacked. There is no need to call someone ignorant if you don't agree
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
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I appreciate the support. If you think I'm dead wrong let me know. But the intent is far more important that the means of which I describe how the battery communicates with the phone.
I just want Epic Users to get the best out of their Epic.
I think a lot of people think they are calibrating their battery, but in all actuallity it's the information in the phone about the battery that needs to be callibrated.
gwcarpenter said:
I appreciate the support. If you think I'm dead wrong let me know. But the intent is far more important that the means of which I describe how the battery communicates with the phone.
I just want Epic Users to get the best out of their Epic.
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You have to understand that the battery percentage is calculated by the phone. If the phone has no way of knowing the actual battery percentage accept with an indication that the battery is full or an indication that the battery is dead, then logic serves that one would have to perform a complete cycle to get accurate statistics. Let's say you have an electric car that's 'fuel' gauge is based solely on an indicator from the battery when it is full and when it is empty. It was initially calibrated to go ~300 miles on a full charge. Now say you get a new engine that might use energy at a different rate than the previous engine (analogous to say a kernel update). You don't really know the percentage of the battery until you record how many miles you've driven before the battery becomes empty. For the statistics to be accurate you must record the statistics over the entire battery discharge cycle. If the only indicator the software has is full and empty, the only thing you can gather from the statistics without a full cycle is the amount of energy that wasn't a full cycle.
Another analogy would be being blindfolded and sipping water through a straw. If you are told that it is full when you start and you drink 25% of it and then we fill it up again. Now you drink the same amount, how much is left (keeping in mind you are still blindfolded.) You have no idea, because you haven't done a whole cycle. You have no idea if you just drank 25% or 50% or 75% because you have never finished it.
My point is, is that you can't record the full capacity of batteries without doing a full charge, discharge cycle.
gwcarpenter said:
Lithium Ion batteries DO NOT NEED TO BE CALIBRATED.
Heat is the biggest enemy of Lithium Ion Batteries, if they get too hot, from forced discharges they actually develop tiny crystals on the inside of the cells that prevent it from being truly 100% charged.
So, in reality your phone is telling you your battery is 100% charged when it is only 85% fully charged inside the battery.
If you want to prolong your battery life follow these short and simple steps:
1. The closer you keep your phone to 100% the longer it will live.
4. Unplug your battery when it's fully charged. - Sure, that "Battery 100% Full" message is annoying, but maybe it was put there for a reason? Hmm.
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Above are some things you said, and below I'm going to copy and paste some stuff from the article.
Although lithium-ion is memory-free in terms of performance deterioration, batteries with fuel gauges exhibit what engineers refer to as "digital memory". Here is the reason: Short discharges with subsequent recharges do not provide the periodic calibration needed to synchronize the fuel gauge with the battery's state-of-charge. A deliberate full discharge and recharge every 30 charges corrects this problem. Letting the battery run down to the cut-off point in the equipment will do this. If ignored, the fuel gauge will become increasingly less accurate.
The worst condition is keeping a FULLY CHARGED battery at elevated temperatures
If possible, store the battery in a cool place at about a 40% state-of-charge.
Avoid keeping the battery at full charge and high temperature.
While the battery is kept fully charged, the inside temperature during operation rises to 45°C (113°F).
Batteries with fuel gauge (laptops) should be calibrated by applying a deliberate full discharge once every 30 charges. Running the pack down in the equipment does this. If ignored, the fuel gauge will become increasingly less accurate and in some cases cut off the device prematurely.
gwcarpenter said:
Personally, I've gotten the best battery life when I do what I just posted above. Which is a powered off charge to 100% then a battery stats wipe. Viola, no need to discharge all the way to 0 and back to 100. It just tears up your battery in my experience.
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That is correct. Discharging to 0% does nothing. The most important thing is getting the battery as full as possible, and then reset the fuel gauge(wipe battery stats.) Personally, I use the external Samsung spare battery charger to charge the battery to full, then insert it in the phone, and boot into recovery and wipe batterystats.
What many don't understand is that wiping batterystats in CWM deletes the batterstats.bin file in data/system. So when you do a data wipe, you are wiping batterystats also. This is why it is important to have a full battery when flashing a new ROM. Something else to remember is that restoring data from a Nandroid backup will also restore an old batterystats.bin file, which is fine if the new ROM has a kernal that is the same or similar to the previous one, but it will negate any batterystats wipe you did before restoring data.
Should I charge my phone when it has like 0.5% battery left always, or can I charge whenever it gets a little low, like 30-40%?
Also, can I leave my phone plugged into the charger overnight? Will that drain the battery?
I leave mine in the charger every night. And I'll put it in charge at work, too, or whenever a charging opportunity arises. With this kind of battery, it really doesn't matter.
Here is a very good article that discusses Lithium Ion batteries:
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries
I don't get the article.
Does 4.2V mean 100% battery life?
If you want to charge it to 4.0 V, does that mean its like 90% battery life?
convolution said:
I don't get the article.
Does 4.2V mean 100% battery life?
If you want to charge it to 4.0 V, does that mean its like 90% battery life?
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Not certain, but it seems the charger and/or battery on the Vision is designed so that it does not keep the voltage at 100% when its charging and full. I've noticed the battery meter periodically drop to 99% when still on the charger, then back up to "F" (full). While I know the battery meter is not really accurate enough to read to 1% increments; what this seems to indicate is that once a full charge is achieved, the system is going to let the charge drop below a certain threshold, then top off again, rather than keep the voltage at 100% constantly.
The table below is a little more easily digestible (not overly technical). It says you can keep the battery on the charger.
It also says not to let the battery discharge below 20%. Overdischarge of Li ion batteries can result in your battery no longer accepting a charge, on the off chance the safety circuit does not trip properly. The safety circuit is designed to prevent over discharge of the battery, but this has been known to fail, at least on other phones. And there is no benefit to letting the battery discharge below 20%.
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/do_and_dont_battery_table
convolution said:
I don't get the article.
Does 4.2V mean 100% battery life?
If you want to charge it to 4.0 V, does that mean its like 90% battery life?
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There are two terms you need to understand when it comes to batteries: volts and amps.
Volts is "static" for a battery, meaning it doesn't change. You have a 1.5V battery, it will always be a 1.5V battery. Now the capacity of the battery is measured in amps. A 1Amp battery has more capacity than a 500mAh battery. At 100% fully charged, you'd have 1000mAh (or 1A). At 90%, you'd have 900mAh.
What that article tells you is that your phone is charged to (or close to) 100% using a specified voltage (probably whatever the battery is rated at...3.7V?). Now batteries and chargers of the past had what's called a "trickle" effect, in which it still chargers the battery when it is (or close to) 100%, but at a much lower voltage. If you phone was to stop charging after it hit 100%, it would start to discharge. When you unplugged it (assuming you charge it over night) in the morning, you would have less than 100%. The trickle is so that your battery will still have 100% when you unplug it.
Think about if you filled up your gas tank and left your car running over night. When you woke up, you wouldn't have a full tank anymore. But if you left the gas nozzle in the tank while it was running, it would continually "top it off". That or gas leak everywhere and your car would burst into flames...therefore canceling the point that you wouldn't a full tank...
Anyways...Li-Ion batteries charge and behave differently that batteries of yore. It's bad to let it go down to almost 0%. It's also bad to let it continually sit on the charger. I personally charge mine every other day but I used to charge my Vibrant and HD2 every night.
The batteries in these phones have protection circuits to prevent over charging as well as over discharge. It is perfectly safe to charge over night as well as discharge until empty. What the display shows as 0% does not mean the battery has actually reached 0%. It is just were the protection circuit deems safe. It is possible to over discharge a Li-ion/LiPo battery which may cause it to no longer charge but there are ways to bring it back for the willing. Our phones, however, will not do this due to the protection circuit unless that fails. If that happens you need a new battery because Li-ion/Lipo batteries are very dangerous if over or under charged.
Also, the voltage is static in theory but in real life the the voltage does drop as the battery is discharged. The drop is not large however. A 3.7v Li-ion/LiPo cell will read around 4.2v at full charge and lowers to just over 3.7v at full SAFE discharge. If the battery falls below 3.7v, you will likely have damaged the cell. Again, our phone batteries have a protection circuit to prevent this.
ihateusernames said:
The batteries in these phones have protection circuits to prevent over charging as well as over discharge. It is perfectly safe to charge over night as well as discharge until empty. What the display shows as 0% does not mean the battery has actually reached 0%. It is just were the protection circuit deems safe. It is possible to over discharge a Li-ion/LiPo battery which may cause it to no longer charge but there are ways to bring it back for the willing.
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It would require a special charger with a "boost" function, which most people do not have access to.
From the previously linked battery University page:
In spite of these preventive measures, over-discharge does occur. Advanced battery analyzers (Cadex C7000 series) feature a 'boost' function that provides a gentle charge current to activate the safety circuit and re-energize the cells if discharged too deeply.
Most of us let our battery drain low on accident from time to time. But it makes not sense to do it intentionally or make a habit of it, as it yields no benefit (some people think they are "conditioning" or "calibrating" the battery, which does not apply to Li ion batteries), and actually hurts battery life. Also from Battery University: "Do charge the battery often. The battery lasts longer with partial rather than full discharges."
There have been pretty occasional cases on the Touch Pro 2 forums of people over-discharging the battery, and rendering it useless. So it does happen. Some have claimed that the Android OS, or the Vision phone itself handles the battery better to avoid over discharge. Maybe so. But do you really want to test that theory, if it can most usually be avoided?
redpoint73 said:
It would require a special charger with a "boost" function, which most people do not have access to.
From the previously linked battery University page:
In spite of these preventive measures, over-discharge does occur. Advanced battery analyzers (Cadex C7000 series) feature a 'boost' function that provides a gentle charge current to activate the safety circuit and re-energize the cells if discharged too deeply.
Most of us let our battery drain low on accident from time to time. But it makes not sense to do it intentionally or make a habit of it, as it yields no benefit (some people think they are "conditioning" or "calibrating" the battery, which does not apply to Li ion batteries), and actually hurts battery life. Also from Battery University: "Do charge the battery often. The battery lasts longer with partial rather than full discharges."
There have been pretty occasional cases on the Touch Pro 2 forums of people over-discharging the battery, and rendering it useless. So it does happen. Some have claimed that the Android OS, or the Vision phone itself handles the battery better to avoid over discharge. Maybe so. But do you really want to test that theory, if it can most usually be avoided?
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I agree that it can happen which is why I stated that the prevention circuit can fail though I do believe it to be a rare case that this happens. I charge when ever I am near a charger as I don't like to run low but I also don't freak out if I am close to dead. I also charge over night every night and have for years. I just don't believe that it is necessary to worry that my phone has been on the charger too long or that I am running close to 0% as there is redundant protection in place and for the most part, this protection works very well. Hell, your phone COULD burst into flames while holding it next to your ear due to the volatility of the Lithium Ion chemistry if exposed to air but that also very rarely happens.
I believe it is probably worse on the battery to watch movies on the phone while overclocked with the battery getting too hot than to discharge to 0% occasionally.
I do agree that it is pointless to try conditioning lithium batteries as they have no memory effect.
Reviving an over discharged Lithium battery should not be attempted by most. I fly RC Helis and my electrics use 3 or 6 cell LiPo's. On the very rare occasion I kill a cell, I isolate the bad cell and trickle charge until it matches the others and then resume balance charging. The batteries in our phones can be revived in the same manner. It requires low current and constant observation and should not be done by the inexperienced.
I read so many thread that indicate Nexus 4 poor battery performance. Therefore, I start thinking if I have the correct concept of charging a lithium
polymer battery. I don't know if the article I found correctly indicate the fact. Here is my way to charge my nexus 4 or 7
1. I never let my battery drain to zero or shut itself down. I usually charge when it's 10% or over 5% (How's your view about it? too low?)
2. I rarely fully charge my phone to 100%. I usually get it done around above 95.
3. I "turn off" the device while I'm charging. In this case, I turn off Nexus 4 and 7 when I need to charge them.
4. I rarely charge my phone overnight...( any second opinion on this?)
Any views and suggestions are all welcome. I just try to find the best way on how to "correctly" charge our nexus 4 lithium polymer battery.
Here is an article I read as an example http://buychargeall.com/cellphonebatterychargertips/
This link may help you http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=518861.
Lipo batteries do not need priming as it does not have memory.
Even though it's about Li-ion, effectively they're the same thing.
The lithium-polymer (LIPO) is a more technologically advanced version of a lithium ion (Li-ion) battery. It's electrolyte is held in a solid polymer film which is directly bonded to the lithium electrode.
Charging a drained battery will shorten the battery life. So I would recommend that you charge more frequently, than charging after the battery is low.
Just charge it however you like and don't worry about it. You'll likely have a new phone before any noticeable damage is done to your battery
xRegrets said:
This link may help you http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=518861.
Lipo batteries do not need priming as it does not have memory.
Even though it's about Li-ion, effectively they're the same thing.
The lithium-polymer (LIPO) is a more technologically advanced version of a lithium ion (Li-ion) battery. It's electrolyte is held in a solid polymer film which is directly bonded to the lithium electrode.
Charging a drained battery will shorten the battery life. So I would recommend that you charge more frequently, than charging after the battery is low.
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Click to collapse
Thanks I see.
Michealtbh said:
Just charge it however you like and don't worry about it. You'll likely have a new phone before any noticeable damage is done to your battery
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That's true too....but still...lol. Worry people worry a lot
xRegrets said:
This link may help you http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=518861.
Lipo batteries do not need priming as it does not have memory.
Even though it's about Li-ion, effectively they're the same thing.
The lithium-polymer (LIPO) is a more technologically advanced version of a lithium ion (Li-ion) battery. It's electrolyte is held in a solid polymer film which is directly bonded to the lithium electrode.
Charging a drained battery will shorten the battery life. So I would recommend that you charge more frequently, than charging after the battery is low.
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Click to collapse
Sorry, I just have one more question after reading the guide...
So, it's ok to charge over night? Is it ok to always put the phone on charger?
I always charge it when below 5% juice is left. And I let it charge till it hits 100% mark. Plus I put it on charge when I got to sleep and wake up after 3 or 3.30 hours (yeah, thats how long it takes to full charge) then turn the switch off and go back to bed.
Is it ok?
I have let all my devices in the past 3 years charge continuously overnight and have never had a single problem
Odp: How to correctly charge lithium polymer battery
Michealtbh said:
I have let all my devices in the past 3 years charge continuously overnight and have never had a single problem
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Yea same here.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda app-developers app
Michealtbh said:
Just charge it however you like and don't worry about it. You'll likely have a new phone before any noticeable damage is done to your battery
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Click to collapse
This. There is nothing to worry about, other than ignoring the many myths that you can read on this subject. The battery will turn itself off way before any chance of damaging it.
Sent from my Nexus 4
zxcv106106 said:
1. I never let my battery drain to zero or shut itself down. I usually charge when it's 10% or over 5% (How's your view about it? too low?)
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Because deep discharging is bad for all lithium based cells non of them allow the battery to discharge to zero, when the cells hit zero in your phone that is the empty limited deemed as safe by the manufacturer and not that the cells are depleted, conversely you cannot over charge it either, Lithium based cells have circuitry embedded in them to prevent damage. Therefore I charge and discharge my battery as i see fit to suit my needs be it over night or a quick blast.
I recently went on a trip to Belgium and it was a 14 hour ferry crossing of which most of the time the phone has no signal. Presumably my N4 was searching for a cell most of the time yet at 17 hours after unplugging it there was still 86% battery left.
People need to realise it is using the screen more than any other single activity that uses the battery, the Nexus 4 is no worse than any other similar phone with a similar battery.
The first phone i had which had a lithium battery was a Nortel 2000, this was in 1996 and i didn't give a toss how i charged that up and i didn't damage that battery, i am sure the technology had advanced shed loads since then.
How do you call people who let phones control their lives?
OP.
0rigin said:
How do you call people who let phones control their lives?
OP.
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Nothing here about control live by the phone. I post this only to find out the correct way to charge lithium battery.
Thanks for all the information.
We all know that the One (and many other modern cellphones) have a Lithium Ion battery. While these batteries have no traditional 'memory effect' the way NiMH did, it seems that different chemistries for the electrolyte would suggest different strategies for recharging.
For example, after looking at the Wikipedia entry for Lithium batteries, it would seem that we should be mindful about 'topping off' the battery, because charging deteriorates the lifespan, implying that running down the battery might be a more advisable practice than plugging in to fully charge every night.
Wondering if any of you experts out there can comment and discuss, given that we One users no longer have replacable cells.
Good question, I too would be very interested in hearing from some of the posters that are knowledgeable in this area.
Sent from my HTC EVO 3D X515m using xda premium
This is pretty well established knowledge right now. I'll list everything pertinent about lithium ion batteries and charging smartphones:
Edit: Note that I mention Lithium Ion in this post, but the HTC One uses Lithium Polymer. They are for all intents and purposes equal in terms of their usability, except for slightly less charge cycles
Edit 2: Hello Reddit! No idea this would have taken off. I'm "coolmatty" on reddit. This is an overall generalization, and there are plenty of resources that go into more detail. Places like Battery University are great sites to start.
1. Charging is what reduces the life of a lithium ion battery. Batteries are usually rated between 700-1000 charge cycles while keeping 90% of their capacity.
2. Charging 0-100% counts as one cycle. Charging 80-100% 5 times counts as one cycle.
3. Leaving your phone on the charger after it is charged has the potential to reduce battery life, although this is less of a problem with newer devices as they often disconnect the charging circuit until the battery drops below ~95%. Generally only an issue if you leave it on the charger for 24+ hours.
4. Lithium ion batteries do not require any conditioning.
5. Most lithium ion devices arrive with ~40-50% battery life remaining, because this is the optimal charge level to store a lithium battery for long periods (such as sitting on a store shelf for months).
6. Slower charging maintains the battery's overall lifetime capacity better than fast charging. This is likely why the HTC One does not have Qualcomm's Quick Charge enabled. It's debateable whether you'd notice the effects over the typical lifetime of a smartphone, however (2 years).
7. Not exactly related to lithium but just in general: smartphones (and tablets, etc) have charging circuits that only draw a certain amount of amps regardless of the number of amps the charger provides. Using a 3.1 amp (tablet-level) charger is not going to significantly increase the speed at which your phone charges. Most phones only use between 0.8 - 1.2 amps. Anything over that is overkill.
8. Storing a lithium ion battery at 0% is really bad for its lifetime capacity. Running it to 0% generally isn't recommended all the time, but a few instances won't hurt it.
9. Recharging from 0-100 doesn't make your battery run longer. It can, however, reset Android's battery level stats so that it can more accurately state the battery level.
10. Charging from ~95% to 100% takes a long time because it must do a trickle charge. Maxing out the battery like this can reduce overall lifetime capacity, but generally not enough to matter. You'll see this impact more often in larger applications of lithium batteries (like cars).
You have no idea how many people need this post (on some points, myself included). Thanks.
Vincent Law said:
2. Charging 0-100% counts as one cycle. Charging 80-100% 5 times counts as one cycle.
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It does not seem to be that uniform, according to this:
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
From what I understood from the link above in Table 2, you can get the best longevity by charging from 50% (2nd row).
jasahu said:
It does not seem to be that uniform, according to this:
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
From what I understood from the link above in Table 2, you can get the best longevity by charging from 50% (2nd row).
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Click to collapse
But is it practical to charge it at 50% every time?
Doesn't the one infact have a Li-Po battery ? Would these points still apply ?
Nyxagamemnon said:
But is it practical to charge it at 50% every time?
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What is a practical approach for me now, after reading this all, is to charge it every night.
This way
- I have better chances for not running out of battery during the day
- either it was at 75% (3rd row) or 50% (2nd row) I still have better longevity than charging from 0% most of the time.
Battery life will not degrade as long as you donot empty its charge for long time and donot use it while on charge... over heat on battery aged the battery...
Sent from my GT-I9082 using xda premium
Just wanted to add: li-ion and li-po batteries now-a-days have protection circuitry to prevent overcharge and over-discharge. Overcharge protection based on what is stated above, known as trickle charge. Over-discharge protection means that your phone will shut off when your battery is around 3v per cell, whereas you should refrain from force starting the phone. The only benefit you get from fully charging/discharging is battery calibration for cell mismatches. It is also good to know that partial charges are better than full charges when it comes to lithium ion (and lithium polymer) batteries.
The HTC one uses li-poly, not li-ion
Can read all about the advantages and disadvantages of each other here:
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/is_lithium_ion_the_ideal_battery
li-poly
Advantages
Very low profile - batteries resembling the profile of a credit card are feasible.
Flexible form factor - manufacturers are not bound by standard cell formats. With high volume, any reasonable size can be produced economically.
Lightweight - gelled electrolytes enable simplified packaging by eliminating the metal shell.
Improved safety - more resistant to overcharge; less chance for electrolyte leakage.
Limitations
Lower energy density and decreased cycle count compared to lithium-ion.
Expensive to manufacture.
No standard sizes. Most cells are produced for high volume consumer markets.
Higher cost-to-energy ratio than lithium-ion
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Click to collapse
As far as I am concerned, li-poly is overall better for phones where you can't change the battery.
by the looks of that article it was done quite a while ago (for the tech. world) so the disadvantages might not be as much of a problem these days.....
jasahu said:
It does not seem to be that uniform, according to this:
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
From what I understood from the link above in Table 2, you can get the best longevity by charging from 50% (2nd row).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was using a simplification. It would be better not to let it go to 0, but most charge cycles are rated on this. I do mention the impact of letting the battery go to 0%.
Miketoberfest said:
Doesn't the one infact have a Li-Po battery ? Would these points still apply ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A flub on my part, you are correct. There are minor differences (the only one that matters to us is slightly shorter lifetime capacity) but otherwise it works the same.
Now that i see a battery 'expert', a quick question.
Back in the dack, if you bought anything with batteries, you would have to charge them for 24h, no matter how much charged they were. But if i were to buy a phone today (Lith-Ion), Do i still have to do that?
I think not, but i'm not quite sure. Lots of people (even smartphone sellers) still recommend charging it 24h, wich i think is bull.
Bartcore3 said:
Now that i see a battery 'expert', a quick question.
Back in the dack, if you bought anything with batteries, you would have to charge them for 24h, no matter how much charged they were. But if i were to buy a phone today (Lith-Ion), Do i still have to do that?
I think not, but i'm not quite sure. Lots of people (even smartphone sellers) still recommend charging it 24h, wich i think is bull.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think that was only for the old Ni-MH batteries as they had to be bedded in as such. The newer ones dont need this
Vincent Law said:
This is pretty well established knowledge right now. I'll list everything pertinent about lithium ion batteries and charging smartphones:
1. Charging is what reduces the life of a lithium ion battery. Batteries are usually rated between 700-1000 charge cycles while keeping 90% of their capacity.
2. Charging 0-100% counts as one cycle. Charging 80-100% 5 times counts as one cycle.
3. Leaving your phone on the charger after it is charged has the potential to reduce battery life, although this is less of a problem with newer devices as they often disconnect the charging circuit until the battery drops below ~95%. Generally only an issue if you leave it on the charger for 24+ hours.
4. Lithium ion batteries do not require any conditioning.
5. Most lithium ion devices arrive with ~40-50% battery life remaining, because this is the optimal charge level to store a lithium battery for long periods (such as sitting on a store shelf for months).
6. Slower charging maintains the battery's overall lifetime capacity better than fast charging. This is likely why the HTC One does not have Qualcomm's Quick Charge enabled. It's debateable whether you'd notice the effects over the typical lifetime of a smartphone, however (2 years).
7. Not exactly related to lithium but just in general: smartphones (and tablets, etc) have charging circuits that only draw a certain amount of amps regardless of the number of amps the charger provides. Using a 3.1 amp (tablet-level) charger is not going to significantly increase the speed at which your phone charges. Most phones only use between 0.8 - 1.2 amps. Anything over that is overkill.
8. Storing a lithium ion battery at 0% is really bad for its lifetime capacity. Running it to 0% generally isn't recommended all the time, but a few instances won't hurt it.
9. Recharging from 0-100 doesn't make your battery run longer. It can, however, reset Android's battery level stats so that it can more accurately state the battery level.
10. Charging from ~95% to 100% takes a long time because it must do a trickle charge. Maxing out the battery like this can reduce overall lifetime capacity, but generally not enough to matter. You'll see this impact more often in larger applications of lithium batteries (like cars).
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Thanks Vincent. Great post will certainly bear it all in mind when charging my phone.
Sent from my HTC EVO 3D X515m using xda premium
ragingredbull said:
Thanks Vincent. Great post will certainly bear it all in mind when charging my phone.
Sent from my HTC EVO 3D X515m using xda premium
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I'm not sure everyone noticed one of the things he said. I know from my HD2 and Ruby that HTC phones will not continue charging after hitting 100%. The phone will indicate %100, but shortly after you disconnect the charger and start using the phone the indicated power level will drop to what it actually is - and it will be lower depending upon how long it has been sitting at "100%". Their phones have a protection circuit that kicks in. So if you really want 100% in the morning, power the phone down to charge it.
Bartcore3 said:
Now that i see a battery 'expert', a quick question.
Back in the dack, if you bought anything with batteries, you would have to charge them for 24h, no matter how much charged they were. But if i were to buy a phone today (Lith-Ion), Do i still have to do that?
I think not, but i'm not quite sure. Lots of people (even smartphone sellers) still recommend charging it 24h, wich i think is bull.
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As I mentioned in my first post, Lithium batteries do not require conditioning. The purpose for this on old Ni-Cad batteries was to avoid the memory effect, which could result in a battery appearing to be dead long before it actually was. For instance, if you always charged it from 60%, after many instances of this, the Ni-Cad battery would suffer a voltage drop at that point, which most electronics can't handle (some can, however, and once past the short period of low voltage, they will recover and continue normally).
Charging for 24 hours is most certainly not relevant, as once the battery reaches 100%, charging has ceased anyway. There's no need to charge it to 100% anyway, other than to give you more time to play with your new toy
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stevedebi said:
I'm not sure everyone noticed one of the things he said. I know from my HD2 and Ruby that HTC phones will not continue charging after hitting 100%. The phone will indicate %100, but shortly after you disconnect the charger and start using the phone the indicated power level will drop to what it actually is - and it will be lower depending upon how long it has been sitting at "100%". Their phones have a protection circuit that kicks in. So if you really want 100% in the morning, power the phone down to charge it.
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You'll see this in most devices nowadays. It's especially noticeable on laptops, which typically won't lie to you about the charge. It depends on the models, but I know Macbooks for instance will happily sit at 95% charge as "fully charged". This is by design and other than turning off the device, you shouldn't try to "top it off". Any other method (such as unplugging and plugging it back in) hurts the overall lifetime of the battery.
Vincent Law said:
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You'll see this in most devices nowadays. It's especially noticeable on laptops, which typically won't lie to you about the charge. It depends on the models, but I know Macbooks for instance will happily sit at 95% charge as "fully charged". This is by design and other than turning off the device, you shouldn't try to "top it off". Any other method (such as unplugging and plugging it back in) hurts the overall lifetime of the battery.
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Most of the modern laptops allow you to turn on or off the battery saving feature. For those who use the laptop while plugged in most of the time, it will stop charging at 80%. For those who will be using it off the plug, the option is there to get it to 100%.
I often see posts from people (in various forums) asking why their laptop will only charge to 80%...
stevedebi said:
Most of the modern laptops allow you to turn on or off the battery saving feature. For those who use the laptop while plugged in most of the time, it will stop charging at 80%. For those who will be using it off the plug, the option is there to get it to 100%.
I often see posts from people (in various forums) asking why their laptop will only charge to 80%...
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I've never heard of this, and I don't recall seeing it on any Windows or Mac laptop I've used recently. Sounds like some proprietary crap one of the manufacturers came up with. Stopping the charge at 80% doesn't make much sense, since you'll still have the issue of constantly recharging the battery (as soon as it drops below 80%).
Edit: I will say that it is marginally better than keeping it at 100%, but that said, there's steps you can take on your own that are much better.
The ideal way to use a laptop that will be plugged in for most of its lifetime is to discharge it to about 45%, and then remove the battery entirely. At that point, the battery can maintain its capacity for months without major issue. Just make sure to recharge it once every 3 months or so, as the battery will discharge (slowly) even while unplugged, but at a far slower rate than it would be inside the laptop.
Vincent Law said:
I've never heard of this, and I don't recall seeing it on any Windows or Mac laptop I've used recently. Sounds like some proprietary crap one of the manufacturers came up with. Stopping the charge at 80% doesn't make much sense, since you'll still have the issue of constantly recharging the battery (as soon as it drops below 80%).
Edit: I will say that it is marginally better than keeping it at 100%, but that said, there's steps you can take on your own that are much better.
The ideal way to use a laptop that will be plugged in for most of its lifetime is to discharge it to about 45%, and then remove the battery entirely. At that point, the battery can maintain its capacity for months without major issue. Just make sure to recharge it once every 3 months or so, as the battery will discharge (slowly) even while unplugged, but at a far slower rate than it would be inside the laptop.
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The latest research from the Auto manufacturers is that Li-Ion technology works longest if the battery level is between 50 and 80%.
My Toshiba U925 ultra portable uses the optional 80% max. If you use the laptop almost exclusively while plugged in, it will help provide battery longevity, or so I understand.
Many laptops won't work unless the battery is in place. It depends on how they built the power circuits.