Related
And the thread was closed... (Dissent causes censure).
Fellow Community: Something going arawy in the Samsung I9100 (Galaxy S2) forums.
The purpose of me opening this thread is to ensure community discussion occurs.
With good intentions, our User Experinance Admin @sveitus has sliced apart The Samsung Galaxy S II Android Development, hiving off `the cream` into The Samsung Galaxy S II Original ROM development thread.
The idea being to Quoting (and please read @sveitus's post in case I'm selectively quoting) the explanitory thread
This forum is for ROMs that aren't an original creation by you in terms of the underlying software, meaning, they've been either 1. developed with assistance from a kitchen or are 2. a re-skinning/re-themeing/minor adjustment of a particular ROM developed by someone else.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Original ROM's are now found within this subforum
Setting aside the lunacy of thinking that anything apart from ASOP and Samsung's stock ROM isn't derived from something else... or the difficulties in determining which belongs in one thread or another (just watch them bouncy from one to another), I find a two things contra XDA ethos.
This subdivision was done without community consultation.
When announced, there was rapid dissent and the response was to close the thread (for heavens sake).
In fairness, to quote @sveitus
P.S. This is a bit of an experiment. Should it make sense, we'll roll it out to other forums on XDA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
, although my concern is that there is no criteria laid down for "success"
I believe this is a reaction, maybe considered, to two things:
I believe that proportion of the community would like to see forums divided (from what I can tell, divided into Kernels, ROMs and Modems), a proportion are comfortable (complacenty abiding with?) the current structure and a proportion who want to differentiate `original` with `derived`. As is also common in politics, the silent majority will be ignored in favour of the loud minority. I suspect that the democratic view is unknown in this instance.
I believe that this split is a knee jerk reaction to an unfortunate incident where someone released a ROM claiming their own work when (to be confirmed?) all bar part of a theme was taken raw from another source uncredited.
Personally speaking, for a mod to close a thread without explaination isn't easily forgiveable.
What say you?
p.s. (edit) We already have different classes of users based on number of postings, etc.
The forums are not going to be divided. What we did with Galaxy S II was just an experiment...an attempt to keep themes/derivative ROMs (that are based on other ROMs) separate from everything else. Never was this about separating "top tier" developers from everyone else.
As we are going to announce today, we're working on a long-term solution for this, through a ROM database.
Thanks for your feedback.
svetius said:
The forums are not going to be divided. What we did with Galaxy S II was just an experiment...an attempt to keep themes/derivative ROMs (that are based on other ROMs) separate from everything else. Never was this about separating "top tier" developers from everyone else.
As we are going to announce today, we're working on a long-term solution for this, through a ROM database.
Thanks for your feedback.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for the quick response. I guess the division of the Samsung S2 forum was an incredibly short lived experiment and I imagine they are being remerged as I type and that themes can live where always should have in their own `themes and apps` sub forum.
I do understand why it is desirable to identify deriviative ROMs (hint: Look at the HD2 Android Dev forum(s) rules to see a great example of useful identification tags in subjects).
Sending you a pm regarding the closure of the thread (for the purpose of me opening this thread was to offer awareness and give our community a voice.
I'm just a user and I wonder how many other user dont really care where there ROMS have come from and just want a category which just contains ROMS, no sitckies, no dev no "coming" soons, just fully flashable ROMS. Now if you could so this it would make this area much easier to use.
I have to say I just don't get this ROM theft rubbish, Android is supposed to be open source, if you don't want to share your ROM don't post it full stop. If donations are'nt good enough for you then don't post it. If someone uses your work then see it as a compliment and live with it. Adding rules and further layers of complexity to the ROM cooking process is just causing arguments that need not be there. Cooks have to accept that their work is going to used, DEVs also as long as it isn't actually an app.
Now if this attitude puts some people off then the ROMS posted will be fewer in number but populated with those lovingly crafted for the sake of it and not by those who simply want ego boosts to or to generate a profit, this isnt what open source or XDA is supposed to be about...!
discuss..
I think we need to be careful about open. If I was to take the post above, change a couple of words and claim as my own then you would be understandably upset that i plagiarised your work. However, if I reply, building upon your message and credit you then that's a positive thing.
Open source is the same.
With you on the rest of it.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA Premium App
tomj777 said:
I think we need to be careful about open. If I was to take the post above, change a couple of words and claim as my own then you would be understandably upset that i plagiarised your work. However, if I reply, building upon your message and credit you then that's a positive thing.
Open source is the same.
With you on the rest of it.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not at all, I strongly believe open source should be just that and that alone, plagiarism should not even exist on here. There should be no rules for cooking or ingredients at all. If everyone worked this way then there would be no complaints, everyone would just be sharing everything, we may even see better roms even if we do loose a few players.
Best option is no rules, anything goes and rely on people to do the right thing, those that don't will soon come to light and be appropriately chastised I am sure, this should be good enough.
stoolzo said:
...Best option is no rules, anything goes and rely on people to do the right thing, those that don't will soon come to light and be appropriately chastised I am sure, this should be good enough.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In a perfect world, that would be ideal. Relying on people to do the right thing would unfortunately lead to chaos. Why? Should we get rid of police officers and courts and just rely on people to "do the right thing"? Nice idea, however the world you mention is fantasy.
stoolzo said:
I'm just a user and I wonder how many other user dont really care where there ROMS have come from
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I for one, also don't care which came from which. Though I understand the devs' who want to protect their fame/donations, which I think the primary reason for these copying disputes.
tomj777 said:
I think we need to be careful about open. If I was to take the post above, change a couple of words and claim as my own then you would be understandably upset that i plagiarised your work. However, if I reply, building upon your message and credit you then that's a positive thing.
Open source is the same.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is true especially if money is involve.
ROM DEV A created a GOOD ROM = donation of ROM DEV A = 100%
ROM DEV B, IMPROVED/CUSTOMIZED ROM OF DEV A = donation of ROM DEV B = xx% = donation of ROM DEV A = 100%-xx%
NOTE: Above is just an example.
I think "orig" ROM devs feels that the donations coming to "derivative" ROM devs should have been theirs.
stoolzo said:
Not at all, I strongly believe open source should be just that and that alone, plagiarism should not even exist on here. There should be no rules for cooking or ingredients at all. If everyone worked this way then there would be no complaints, everyone would just be sharing everything, we may even see better roms even if we do loose a few players.
Best option is no rules, anything goes and rely on people to do the right thing, those that don't will soon come to light and be appropriately chastised I am sure, this should be good enough.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Our society/community is far from the utopic concept that you talk about. I would love nothing more than to not have to enforce any rules in here, trusting that people would just do the right thing, but unfortunately this is far from over. Quite frankly matters got much worse after the introduction of Android. Back when xda was solely focused on Windows Mobile, plagiarism was something that was hardly ever seen around these areas. Everyone had work out in the open, work which they gladly shared with everyone just for the advancement of the platform (and partial resentment against Microsoft ). That work was always credited, any and all help was always acknowledged, and people were all working together towards the same goal. If you want a more utopic XDA, go back 4 years in time and you will find one. Funny enough, it wasn't until Android hit that I learned that this site had moderators. I knew about the administrators but not about moderators... that is how utopic this place was. And if you look at my join date, I have been active here for a very long time.
khein said:
I for one, also don't care which came from which. Though I understand the devs' who want to protect their fame/donations, which I think the primary reason for these copying disputes.
This is true especially if money is involve.
ROM DEV A created a GOOD ROM = donation of ROM DEV A = 100%
ROM DEV B, IMPROVED/CUSTOMIZED ROM OF DEV A = donation of ROM DEV B = xx% = donation of ROM DEV A = 100%-xx%
NOTE: Above is just an example.
I think "orig" ROM devs feels that the donations coming to "derivative" ROM devs should have been theirs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, you are missing the point completely. In your equation, simply replace the word "donation" with the word "feedback". What is dev B going to do with feedback that was meant to go for dev A? Or better yet, if all that dev B did was throw theme packages together and zipped them into a flashable rom, what can dev B do when feedback comes to him asking him to fix something? Dev A needs these feedback and bug reports to improve his work.
Something I think has been missed from these discussions is...
One of the objectives here is to make it easier for users to finds ROMs that just variants of one they already have; the same underlying code base, but with tweaks to improve the user experience; and ROMs with actual improvements - bug fixes, major improvements, etc.
I'm not trying to make a point here, just illustrate another reason for the changes.
Dave
egzthunder1 said:
Our society/community is far from the utopic concept that you talk about. I would love nothing more than to not have to enforce any rules in here, trusting that people would just do the right thing, but unfortunately this is far from over. Quite frankly matters got much worse after the introduction of Android. Back when xda was solely focused on Windows Mobile, plagiarism was something that was hardly ever seen around these areas. Everyone had work out in the open, work which they gladly shared with everyone just for the advancement of the platform (and partial resentment against Microsoft ). That work was always credited, any and all help was always acknowledged, and people were all working together towards the same goal. If you want a more utopic XDA, go back 4 years in time and you will find one. Funny enough, it wasn't until Android hit that I learned that this site had moderators. I knew about the administrators but not about moderators... that is how utopic this place was. And if you look at my join date, I have been active here for a very long time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The anything goes really can only be the way forward here because what you are are suggesting in any form is a total nightmare for users which completely defeats the object of XDA, remove ease of use and usefulness and you have no XDA and people will start to leave in droves.
If you agree that 4 years ago was far more ideal than it is currently then why aren't you trying to pull things back to where it was then? All you have to do is to post new rules about XDA stepping back on moderation and leaving users to self moderate. Advise that you will still deal with complaints but on a case by case basis by email and not be thread posts, setup and [email protected] or something. Just moderate the legal and unpleasant stuff.
yes it would be nice to have a one fits all system were everyone would receive the exact amount praise or donations for the work done, in proportion to what effort was put in, this WILL NEVER HAPPEN, if you keep loading layer up layer of complexity on top then you will just break it altogether, plus when something is open source nobody has the right to anything, praise, donations, nothing, open source is about good will, not profit, not fame or fortune. I think XDA allows themselves to get to mixed up in this.
Sometimes you just got to sit back and say F*ck it and let things ride.
DaveShaw said:
Something I think has been missed from these discussions is...
One of the objectives here is to make it easier for users to finds ROMs that just variants of one they already have; the same underlying code base, but with tweaks to improve the user experience; and ROMs with actual improvements - bug fixes, major improvements, etc.
I'm not trying to make a point here, just illustrate another reason for the changes.
Dave
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I see what you were trying to do but it was a huge fail, it was a nice thought but its better just to shove all the ROMS together and let people try them as just because a ROM says it has this, that or the other it doesn't mean it will work as reported and it may have something the flasher wont like. All XDA needs to do is present the information clearly and leave the user to make up their own mind.
I see no need to break down the subs further other than to put ROMS in their own folder, that would definitely make things easier as the current ROM/DEV folder is a total mess.
egzthunder1 said:
No, you are missing the point completely. In your equation, simply replace the word "donation" with the word "feedback". What is dev B going to do with feedback that was meant to go for dev A? Or better yet, if all that dev B did was throw theme packages together and zipped them into a flashable rom, what can dev B do when feedback comes to him asking him to fix something? Dev A needs these feedback and bug reports to improve his work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have yet to experience what your talking about. ROM B has a problem? Moved to ROM A..
Derived ROM Dev tells "ORIG" ROM Dev an issue? "ORIG" ROM Dev replies that his/her ROM users doesn't report issues, and tells he/she(derived ROM dev) must have done something wrong.
That is normally what happens, because most bugs/issues are found by the "ORIG" rom users.
What if I hosted a copy/modified/derived version of the XDA forums. And my so-called derived XDA forum managed to gain some fame/high activity, even managed to catch up with xda's status/market share. Then one day, a major issue occured, and I couldn't fix it as the problem seems to come from the "ORIG" xda source BUT the "ORIG" xda forum doesn't have this problem. Do you think the XDA admin, would even bother to help me fix my derived XDA forum seeing that his "ORIG" forum could replicate the problem?
stoolzo said:
The anything goes really can only be the way forward here because what you are are suggesting in any form is a total nightmare for users which completely defeats the object of XDA, remove ease of use and usefulness and you have no XDA and people will start to leave in droves.
If you agree that 4 years ago was far more ideal than it is currently then why aren't you trying to pull things back to where it was then? All you have to do is to post new rules about XDA stepping back on moderation and leaving users to self moderate. Advise that you will still deal with complaints but on a case by case basis by email and not be thread posts, setup and [email protected] or something. Just moderate the legal and unpleasant stuff.
yes it would be nice to have a one fits all system were everyone would receive the exact amount praise or donations for the work done, in proportion to what effort was put in, this WILL NEVER HAPPEN, if you keep loading layer up layer of complexity on top then you will just break it altogether, plus when something is open source nobody has the right to anything, praise, donations, nothing, open source is about good will, not profit, not fame or fortune. I think XDA allows themselves to get to mixed up in this.
Sometimes you just got to sit back and say F*ck it and let things ride.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Users did not self moderate 4+ years ago.... there was less need for moderation. You didn't see constant intervention by mods, not because the rules were not in place or because the mods were not around, but rather because there was no drama in the titanic proportions that we see it daily. It is very easy to speak from the regular member's stand point, but the amount of stuff that we (mods and admins) see going through this site day in and day out since the smartphone market exploded would make you want to jump out of a window!
You are suggesting, in essence, that we do away with our rules and let people "do the right thing." Why? Our rules have been in place since early 2003 when the site was founded. For over 5 years, these rules have made xda-developers the site that many regard today as the largest developer community on the web.
You speak of the objective of XDA, what do you think this is? Do you know what the true mission of this site is? XDA is a development and hacking community. It isn't end users that make this community, it is developers, hackers, and enthusiast that are the back-bone of this site. Do you want to know what XDA truly is about?
Read this
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=2031989&postcount=45
I think what a lot of people forget is that this is not a "make my phone neat & kewl" place.
As implied by the name this is technically a Developers forum/community.
Now what does that mean? Well first off it means that there is an expectation that if you are here then you want to customize your device but rather than just installing something that someone packaged you want to understand how it works and maybe even enhance it yourself.
When I first came here with a Blue Angel it was a different environment. PDA Phones were not embraced by the general public because of the expense and complexity (I paid over $400 for my BA). A $400 phone 4 years ago was expensive, today the Tilt is $300 after rebates but with inflation & the rise in the cost of other devices and the fact that there are other sources out there giving them away for $150 our neat bit of kit has become popular with mainstream users.
Now we have a flood of new users who are asking not "How can I do this myself" but more like "Give me the quick fix" without caring to understand the process. See if you read the threads then you get to experience the learning process, you see how the issues were investigated and confirmed. Then you get to watch the different attempts at resolution and learn why some failed while others worked. That is called Development.
The NooB backlash is coming from users who have walked in the development shoes and is directed mainly at those who don't care for the journey but just want the end result or destination.
As a Development Forum we are just as much (if not more) about the journey. I've read so many comments like "I don't have time to read all of the threads" or "I don't care how it works, just that it does". These very statements are contrary to the heart & soul of XDA-Devs and that is why the backlash is so strong.
Let me be very clear on this: IF YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT UNDERSTANDING THE JOURNEY THEN YOU PROBABLY SHOULDN'T BE HERE IN THE FIRST PLACE.
XDA-Devs is about developers & hackers helping each other and working together to get the most out of our devices by understanding them better than most.
XDA-Devs is not about helping everyone who wants a "Kewl bit of kit" make their phone better than the guy next to him.
Now do we go kicking users off who never contribute anything, NO. We tolerate it to an extent. Where the toleration ends is when these users start diluting the usefulness of the forum by repeating the same questions over and over again.
You ask us to understand your position. Well if you want to benefit from our experience and time then I think it is only fair that you understand our position.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is the true ethos of XDA. This is what our community and founding members believed and still do regarding how our site should work and what our members should do to "fit" here.
Hi, firstly I am not talking about XDA as a whole, I fully understand the need for general forum rules and regs, I am simply talking here about cooking for android, I am not trying to tell you how to run your shop. Cooking for Android is different I think as Android is supposed to open source, on one hand people should not be expecting anything in return for the work but on the other it is implied that they will as this is a good will based forum, it should remain that way (again for android only I cannot speak for other platforms)
I am simply of the opinion, regarding cooking and only cooking that trying to police this is impossible,
I certainly understand how frustrating it can be for genuine devs and people who put a lot of effort into customising a ROM but it is just impossible to weed out the good from the bad as you have clearly found, plenty has already been said on this so I dont really need to say any more.
Its is certainly true that XDA has changed, its grown into something completely different, perhaps its time for major rethink and not just sticking plasters
Have you thought about setting up a tier forum system?.
Tier one: would be invite only by MODs, this would be a completely seperate forum, laid out in the same way but on a different URL maybe. This would be mainly for devs and cooks, people on here could create, view and edits posts on here and also on the standard main forum as it is now.
Tier two: would be invite only or based on numbers of posts and / or numbers of thankyou's perhaps. (from different users). You would be able to view tier 1 but not post. YOu would be able to view and post the standard forum.
tier three: no access to view tier one, can edit and post on the main standard forum only much like a user can a the moment.
Tier 4: read only access to main form (until they join)
People on Tier 1 would then be able to disucss and share stuff without the background hum of zillions of noob questions and posts, this would also be a lot more decure as invite only would keep out the riff raff.
Tier two people would then have an incentive to contribute more to dev and so reach tier 1 status. You could also use this system as a punishment, people cold be denied access to higher levels if they infringe on rules.
Sounds a little eliteist doesnt it?, well it is a little but I probably wont ever make tier one but can understand the need for something like this.
khein said:
I have yet to experience what your talking about. ROM B has a problem? Moved to ROM A..
Derived ROM Dev tells "ORIG" ROM Dev an issue? "ORIG" ROM Dev replies that his/her ROM users doesn't report issues, and tells he/she(derived ROM dev) must have done something wrong.
That is normally what happens, because most bugs/issues are found by the "ORIG" rom users.
What if I hosted a copy/modified/derived version of the XDA forums. And my so-called derived XDA forum managed to gain some fame/high activity, even managed to catch up with xda's status/market share. Then one day, a major issue occured, and I couldn't fix it as the problem seems to come from the "ORIG" xda source BUT the "ORIG" xda forum doesn't have this problem. Do you think the XDA admin, would even bother to help me fix my derived XDA forum seeing that his "ORIG" forum could replicate the problem?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Tbh I think you miss the point. We aren't saying derivative roms aren't important. Of course they are. I even use them occasionally myself. If I'm having an issue with a rom I'm using, of course I will try and help fix the bug. What we are trying to do is aid developers by splitting the forums up into two clear sections
stoolzo said:
I see what you were trying to do but it was a huge fail, it was a nice thought but its better just to shove all the ROMS together and let people try them as just because a ROM says it has this, that or the other it doesn't mean it will work as reported and it may have something the flasher wont like. All XDA needs to do is present the information clearly and leave the user to make up their own mind.
I see no need to break down the subs further other than to put ROMS in their own folder, that would definitely make things easier as the current ROM/DEV folder is a total mess.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That wasn't the only reason you know. Just one of the consequences of the new idea that seems to have been overlooked thus far.
stoolzo said:
Hi, firstly I am not talking about XDA as a whole, I fully understand the need for general forum rules and regs, I am simply talking here about cooking for android, I am not trying to tell you how to run your shop. Cooking for Android is different I think as Android is supposed to open source, on one hand people should not be expecting anything in return for the work but on the other it is implied that they will as this is a good will based forum, it should remain that way (again for android only I cannot speak for other platforms)
I am simply of the opinion, regarding cooking and only cooking that trying to police this is impossible,
I certainly understand how frustrating it can be for genuine devs and people who put a lot of effort into customising a ROM but it is just impossible to weed out the good from the bad as you have clearly found, plenty has already been said on this so I dont really need to say any more.
Its is certainly true that XDA has changed, its grown into something completely different, perhaps its time for major rethink and not just sticking plasters
Have you thought about setting up a tier forum system?.
Tier one: would be invite only by MODs, this would be a completely seperate forum, laid out in the same way but on a different URL maybe. This would be mainly for devs and cooks, people on here could create, view and edits posts on here and also on the standard main forum as it is now.
Tier two: would be invite only or based on numbers of posts and / or numbers of thankyou's perhaps. (from different users). You would be able to view tier 1 but not post. YOu would be able to view and post the standard forum.
tier three: no access to view tier one, can edit and post on the main standard forum only much like a user can a the moment.
Tier 4: read only access to main form (until they join)
People on Tier 1 would then be able to disucss and share stuff without the background hum of zillions of noob questions and posts, this would also be a lot more decure as invite only would keep out the riff raff.
Tier two people would then have an incentive to contribute more to dev and so reach tier 1 status. You could also use this system as a punishment, people cold be denied access to higher levels if they infringe on rules.
Sounds a little eliteist doesnt it?, well it is a little but I probably wont ever make tier one but can understand the need for something like this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey,
Tier 1 does sorta exist It's the recognized developer program, which has an area for this.
If I'm honest, what you describe sounds very much like the new system, with a "big stuff" section (the rec dev area), then a tier 2 area, where the "original" stuff goes, and a tier 3 area for the remainder?
well, not really, my way does not seeks to discourage people by singling out their work, however apparently trivial it may appear to be inferior to others - openly...
My idea was really about giving the more technical / coding minded people more of a say in how they work, somewhere more quiet to share and discuss stuff. If you say this already exists then why don't you extend it to encompass the more favoured cooks?, the more stuff worked on and completed at this level will leave less to fight over at my level.
I still think you should put all the ROMS back together in one category and kick out all the other dev stuff into to its own, if only to help us lowly users find out next ROM more easily, don't forget about us
Android Beta -> Astro (1.0) -> Bender (1.1) -> Cupcake (1.5) -> Donut (1.6) -> Eclair (2.0/2.1) -> Froyo (2.2/2.2.1) -> Gingerbread (2.3.x) -> Honeycomb (3.x) -> IceCream Sandwich (4.0.x) -> JellyBean (4.1.x) -> Key Lime Pie (5.0?) (see here for more detailed descriptions)
Since the Vibrant is near the run of its contract users life and many are about to move on to other new devices, there will be more of the phones on Ebay, Amazon, Craig's List,... This means that there will be a flood (or at least a small trickle) of new users coming to our forum. The below is a guide that we have put together in the Recognized Contributor's Forum to help facilitate this. It is a WIP and always will be for the mere fact that this is XDA, Android and Open Source. Things change and so will this, you and your device.
Good Luck and if you have any questions, thoughts, additions...please let me know and I will check it out.
To all new users, XDA is a great place where you can learn a lot about how to make your phone better, have fun talking to other smart people about your phone and the Android OS, and maybe be recognized for your efforts. But first there are few things you need to know about XDA to be a good netizen. I suggest bookmarking any of the links below which might seem helpful since chances are in the future it will be helpful to you or to someone else and you will have it bookmarked.
The Difference Between and N00B and a NEWB
TheDeadCPU said:
A "noob" is a person who is new or inexperienced in a subject, usually an online game. Noobs are usually annoying and excessively stupid. Do not confuse noobs with newbs, who are inexperienced players that tend to be more mature and strive to become better.
Source
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The best way to start is not by posting, it is by reading. Read, search, read, search. If you read an answer that looks helpful or answers a question you might have, bookmark it, and when you see someone else ask that question you will have the answer for them plus a supporting link.
Getting Started
First, please start here by registering. This enables you to post questions and helpful replies to other people's questions and get thanks.
The Rules
Like anything in life, there are rules here. There are also moderators (mods) who enforce the rules when necessary.
Here is the short version. Please:
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
Here is the longer version. XDA Rules
Sharing
Sharing, XDA, and You! New Addition to Sharing Policy on XDA-Developers
Banning Policy Revealed
Source: Banning Policy Revealed
In our continuing efforts to improve the experience of our Forum Members, we are reaffirming our belief in being firm, fair, and open regarding our moderation of the forums. We’re going public with our revised and simplified policy on banning those who repeatedly breach our rules. For some time now our dedicated Members have been asking us to be clear about our efforts to remove troublesome users who seem to plague our forums. We agree with a firm approach, and acknowledge your right to see clean forums fit for decent, contributing members who respect the site and its purposes.
With immediate effect, Administrators and Moderators of XDA-Developers will operate a new simplified moderation policy on banning—but rest assured this will be firm and fair, as we see banning as our last resort after warnings and infractions have been given. In fact, we hope that being open about the way bans are applied will lead to better understanding among Members, and will therefore act as a deterrent to bad behavior.
Feedback from Members has informed us that one of the biggest problems with our forums is the increasing number of users who repeatedly spoil the forums with often low level, but extremely annoying and poor behavior. To protect the vast majority of Members from those who appear with self-entitled attitudes, disruptive behavior, and disregard for the rules; we will follow simple stages in applying successive bans. Users who breach our rules should be very clear that it will no longer matter whether breaches of the rules are “serious” or “minor.” Repeatedly breaking ANY of the rules will ultimately result in a permanent ban.
For regular Members the following simple model will be followed if after initial warnings and infractions have been given, the user continues to breach the rules:
Initial ban: 1 to 3 days
A subsequent rule breach: 1 to 3 weeks
A further breach of the rules: Permanent
This new and simplified policy is geared at those repeated poor behavior, ignoring warnings, and failure to read our rules.
Clear and obvious spammers and very extreme or highly destructive behavior will continue to warrant instant bans.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Searching
When you have a question you don't know the answer to, don't post a new thread when you could post a question in a relevant open thread, and don't post a question when a few minutes reading and searching will not only give you an answer, but a feeling of accomplishment that you were able to find it yourself, and the confidence to remember and repeat the answer with the link to the thread or post with that answer when you see someone else post that question.
Consider the question you are going to post, pick out the keywords and type them into the search box. Try a few different searches with slightly different words.
New Members Guide-Get the most out of XDA!!
Search guide video
Terms and Acronyms
What does AOSP, ROM or FOTA mean?
Libs, WIP, SDK, what the heck are these?
For a more extensive list please see this thread by Recognized Contributor Diablo67:
Android Terms,Slang & Definitions.
Posts 1,2 and 5 have everything you need to know.
Check this Excellent term definition Glossary by benjamingwynn.
* - anything and everything possible. A good example would be "All my friends live at 10* Croxley Street." This is saying that they are all live at 100, 101, 102, 103, 104, 105, 106, 107, 108 and 109.
Dev - See developer.
Developer - A man or woman who has created (developed) software.
ROM - 1. A modified version of the Android operating system operating system. 2. Read Only Memory, a place where information is stored and can not be destroyed, modified or written to.
AOSP - "Android open source project" a project by Google Inc. to give android to developers and manufactures for free (see open-source)
Open-source - (not to be confussed with free) A peice of software that is free to edit, use, distribute and share with no charge.
CM - See cyanogenmod
Cyanogenmod - A free open-source project based on the AOSP. It is a modded (see modded) version of the Android firmware
Firmware - see ROM (1)
Stock - An unchanged version of something. Example: I just flashed stock sense
OTA - "Over the air" a term used to indicate software that was sent to phones directly through the internet to their phones.
FOTA - "Firmware over the air" this normally refers to ROM's but can refer to radio firmware (see OTA)
Firmware - a piece of software to make hardware function correctly. This can refer to Radio Firmware, but is normally used as another name for ROM (1)
Radio - (not to be confused with Radio Firmware) A piece of hardware that allows communication. There are 3 main radios in your phone. Bluetooth, WiFi and GSM/CDMA.
Radio Firmware - (see firmware) a type of software that allows correct communication with the radio and the operating system. A newer firmware would normally improve battery life and call quality. The radio firmware only applies to the CDMA/GSM radio.
CDMA/GSM - A type of network communication between phones and carriers. GSM phones normally are included with SIM Cards that authorize them onto the network. CDMA have this authorization built in and do not need a sim card.
Kernel - An important part of all operating systems that handles the CPU and other vital components. A modded kernel may be used for overclocking.
Overclock - (not to be confused with underclock) to exced the default maximum CPU speed. This could make a phone more powerful but may cause damage. Although no damaged has been reported so far it could still drain battery life.
Underclock - to change your phones maximum frequency to LOWER than the default to attempt to extend the phones lifespan and battery.
Mod - A modification to a part of the phones software. It is also POSSIBLE to mod the phones hardware but is not recommended.
Modding - To perform a mod
Modded - to have included mods
Modification - see mod
Governor - a system embedded into the kernel to automatically change the current working CPU frequency depending on the workload. It would only go up to what it is overclocked (or underclocked) to, this is called the maximum frequency. It would not drop bellow the (just as eaisly configurable) minimum frequency.
Library's/Libs - a set of instructions for applications to use to function. A functioning camera lib would allow the camera to be used.
WFS - "Wildfire S" an armv6 device made by HTC in 2011.
Logcat - A logging system built into the ADB
ADB - "Android Debug Bridge" a system that can be accessed using a computer where you can manage the device from. You need the Android SDK to use it.
SDK - "Software Development Kit" a set of tools used for software development.
WIP - "Work In Progress"
JDK - "Java Development Kit" an SDK for the java platform. It is needed to run the Android SDK.
JRE - "Java Runtime Environment" a collection of binarys and files to allow java software to execute.
Execute - To "run" or "start" a binary
Binarys - (sometimes called bin's) a group of executable files.
RAM - Could be one of three meanings: 1. Memory for the CPU to process processes. 2. Random Access Memory, a place where information can be used, executed from, modified, or deleted. 3. A type of sheep.
SD - Short term for MicroSD
Marvel - A gsm version of the phone
Marvelc - The cdma version of the phone
Marvelct - A rare Easten CDMA version of the phone.
Marvel* - all versions of the HTC Wildfire S (see *)
GB - Could mean one of two things. 1. Gingerbread or 2. Great Britain
Gingerbread - Android 2.3
Froyo - Android 2.2
Honeycomb - Android 3.x. it was never released or ported to the wildfire s because it was built for tablets.
Ice cream sandwich/ICS - Android 4.0. The latest version of Android.
CM9 - Cyanogenmod 9. A modified version of ICS. (see cm)
RUU - "ROM Update Utility" An automatic installer for Radio Firmware, ROM and HBOOT
HBOOT - The bootloader for all modern HTC Android phones.
Custom recovery - A o version of the stock HTC recovery to install unoffical ROMs.
AFAIK - "As far as I know"
KANG - The process of creating a code based of someone else's code.
Zipalligned - This is something that makes a ROM faster. If you can improve this please contact me!
Deodexed - Where ODEX files are moved into the actual applications
APK - "Android Package" an Android application
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Giving Thanks
Giving thanks is important. It lets people know that their work or answer is appreciated. It is a faster method of feedback than posting a reply like "Thanks for your answer!" You must have one post to give thanks, so here is a good place you can do that without running afoul of the mods for posting no content posts.
The "Say Hi" thread.
You get 8 thanks per day, and they renew after 24 hours or so. Each thanks is independent of the others, so if you give someone a thanks at 3, and then another at 4, those will renew at 3 and 4 the next day. If you run out of thanks, then bookmark that page or open it in a new tab and give thanks later when you have one available.
If you use them all every day you are doing it correctly.
Getting Thanks
You will see that everyone here has a Thanks Meter above their avatar. Here are the thanks counts needed to get to the next bar.
1st bar - 26
2nd bar - 51
3rd bar - 101
4th bar - 201
bug here, never gets to 5 bars, probably 501 if fixed.
6th bar - 1001
7th bar - 2001
8th bar - 5001
9th bar - 8001
Maxed! - 10000
Not that thanks are an indication of a user's status or stature on XDA. Some of the most important people here have a lot fewer thanks than you might guess. You can put some stock into "Thanks" because, theoretically, the more thanks a person has, the more they have helped, which in turn means the more of a knowledge base they might have.
***In the real world, THANKS are about as important as QUADRANT scores. They don't always seem to be what they appear to be.***
User Titles
As you go around XDA and encounter people, you may notice that they have different titles under their avatar. Speaking of which, click here to upload a picture.
Here are the user titles explained by one of our mods.
0 to 29 posts - Junior Member
30 to 99 posts - Member
100 + posts - Senior Member
Originally Posted by juzz86
I'll sum it up for you (or try, anyway!)
There are Junior Members, Members, Senior Members first. These make up the vast majority of XDAs userbase.
Recognized Contributors are nominated by other users and/or Mods/Developers. They are recognized for their contributions which are not specifically Development, such as detailed guides, one-click utilities and other tools/mods.
Recognized Themers are also nominated by users/Mods/Developers, for their work theming custom ROMs and providing standalone themes for flashing.
Recognized Developers are nominated and approved by the Developer Committee, for their work in Development whether it be ROMs, Root methods, bootloader unlocks etc.
Elite Recognized Developers are again assessed by the Developer Committee, and are deemed to have gone above-and-beyond in providing knowledge/hacks/tools/apps/ROMs for the XDA community.
Forum Moderators are appointed by the Moderator Committee, after submitting an application (see the 'sticky' at the top of this forum - currently applications are not open). They are the first-line of keeping the forums tidy, friendly and orderly.
Senior Moderators are the next step up the ladder, providing site-wide support for Forum Mods and looking after the nitty-gritty issues, as well as areas of XDA not policed by FSMs, such as the Marketplace.
Administrators are next. There are several Admins - each look after a specific part of XDA such as the Portal, the Members and the User Experience of XDA as a whole.
At the top is Mike Channon, who is overall Forum Administrator.
Other titles you may come across:
Moderator Committee - sits on the Mod Committee
Developer Committee - as above, but for Developer Committee
XDA Newswriter - publishes articles for the Portal (front page)
Retired xxxx - have since officially 'left' their XDA position
Hopefully that clears most of them up for you
Contrary to what a lot of people expect, the thanks-meter does not figure at all in determining a users tag.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Posting
Posting is something you may do a lot of here, but it is always important to remember to make your posts good ones. Don't post just to drive up your count, there is no special reward for the poster with the highest total and you won't catch the long timers here anyways.
You will find that there are some restrictions on your posting ability when you first start here. For starters, for your first 5 posts, there is a captcha prompt and a time limit in between posts. While this may seem burdensome, it does an excellent job of keeping spammers from posting garbage throughout every thread. There is a 2 minute limit between posting and editing your posts. This stops at 30 posts when you go from Junior Member to Member.
Don't Panic!
Please post ALL relevant information. What ROM/Kernel, What you were doing when the problem surfaced, What is the actual problem (not my phone won't boot, help!!), Were the planets aligned,...
Simple information can go along way to diagnose the problem/issue and it also prevents the reciprocal post of "Need more info".
And we have all been there in Panic Mode where you freak out and just want to get some help. Noobs don't look at these devices as phones or tablets, but rather as investment because well that is what they are are $500-$800 a throw. I respect my device but that is because I know how to use and recovery it. Noobs don't. They see a bootloop and it is strikingly similar to the toilet swirling their money down the drain. That is when Panic Mode sets in.
Don't Panic. Don't be a noob. Be a New User who is smart and reads a lot and knows where things are and how to find useful and timely information.
Why can't I post in the Dev thread I want to?
It seems like everyone wants to be able to post in the Dev threads since it is the cool place to hang out or more likely, just because the message comes up and says you can't post here. However, those forums are locked down and new users who joined after Mar 11, 2012 with less than 10 posts will not be able to post there. If you see someone with less than 10 posts in a dev thread, look at their join date and you will see why they were able to post.
This restriction is not meant to be cruel or mean to you, but to prevent inexperienced people from posting in forums which are meant for Development work. Posting "Thanks for a great ROM" might make you feel good, but consider what it adds to the conversation from a Development perspective. If the answer is Nothing, then please don't post it in a Dev thread. If it adds another post to an already long thread with zero value, please don't post it on a Dev thread or anywhere on XDA for that matter.
Also keep in mind that the mods are out there reading your posts, and if they believe you are posting simply to get to 10 posts to post some non-dev comment in a dev thread, you could find all your posts missing and your account temporarily disabled. <----This personally drives me bonkers. DON"T SPAM THE BOARDS TO GET YOUR POST COUNT UP. It doesn't take too much thought to come up with 10 relevant questions.
****READ THIS. If you Spam you WILL get called out and possibly reported****
Please feel free to thank the dev several times instead of posting "Thanks for a great ROM". Rate the dev's thread with 5 stars using the rate dropdown button at the top of every page of the thread. If you feel that is not sufficient, most devs have a donate button with Paypal. I promise you that they will remember you and appreciate you far more for donating even a couple of dollars versus some post, however gushingly approving, on their dev thread.
Please do not send private messages to the devs saying "Thanks for a great ROM" instead of posting "Thanks for a great ROM". See above.
The best way to start is not by posting, it is by reading. Read, search, read, search. If you read an answer that looks helpful or answers a question you might have, bookmark it, and when you see someone else ask that question you will have the answer for them plus a supporting link.
You might be thinking, is there a place for new users? The answer is no, because the only non-noob areas are the Dev subforums. You can post into your devices General, Q&A, Accessories, and Themes and Apps subforums.
10 post count rule for Dev threads
Posting Questions
OK, you got through all that and you have a question that you need that answer to. You have searched, and searched again, and searched again with different keywords, but you can't find the answer. The question is, where do you post it? The first and best place is to check your device's Q&A subforum for a thread posted there, either a general question thread, or a thread already posted there with a similar question. When you post into a thread, that thread is then listed at the top of the subforum it is in and the title turns Bolded for everyone else. Someone else may see that thread and know the answer and post it.
Remember, give it some time before reposting. XDA members live around the world and are not going to be on your time zone and schedule. Wait a day and see if you get a response. If you want a notification of someone else posting into that thread, click on the Thread Tools button at the top of the thread and choose Subscribe.
Getting Flamed
At some point, you are going to get "flamed" by someone who feels that your post is stupid, off-topic, irrelevant, noobish, whatever, and they are going to post something like "You are an XXXXX who doesn't know something simple like YYYYY. Don't post here anymore." It is going to happen at some time here, but the important part is not to respond in kind. It will not help the situation, or make your e-peen any bigger, or make you any tougher. It might make you feel better temporarily, but what invariably happens is that the forum mod (or a senior mod) will come in and delete those comments and you might end up on the infraction list, or temporarily disabled, or banned. Just don't reply to it.
*First, consider the question or post you wrote from a different angle. There is no excuse for flaming someone, but in a multi-cultural environment things may be perceived very differently than what you intended.
*Second, if the flame is really over the line, click on the little triangle in the upper right hand corner of the post and type in a short explanation and let the mods handle it. This is what they are here for. To MODerate and enforce the rules. They are not here to babysit you, so if you get in a flame war and in turn become too hostile in your own defense, YOU could get an infraction.
Signature
Making a signature is a very important thing to do since it can help to describe your phone, it's current software, and any modifications you have installed.
A signature should inform others about your phone when you post a question.
A good signature will include information helpful to others beyond the direct target of the question/reply.
A great signature will inform the community with important information and potentially answer questions which have not been asked yet, avoiding repetitive posts.
Please click here to make a signature (5-8 posts minimum) It's cool and you will get more help and respect from us.
Donations
Making a donation is neither expected or required, but are always gratefully received and appreciated.
There are "Donate to me" icons above people's avatar, or in their signatures.
You can also donate to XDA by clicking HERE.
When you donate 10 EUROS to XDA,you get rewarded with a STAR
,which is displayed a little below your avatar.
If you buy 10 STARS ,you will be rewarded with a
.
Check this out!!!
Remember, always be respectful of other members here and considerate. Most people here are doing this for nothing more than the feeling of helping people as we have been helped by other people previously, and sometimes the occasional press of the thanks button. We aren't making money here and this isn't a job, so please don't tell people what to do or demand things of people such as mods or custom ROM configs to suit you and you will do just fine here.
Links You Might Find Interesting
Getting a Moderator's Help
[Tutorial] How To Logcat
[GUIDE] How to give constructive feedback to developers
[ADB/FB/APX Driver] Universal Naked Driver 0.7
Chef Central
[Ultimate Guide]Android App Development - From Scratch
How to Apply for Recognized Developer
XDA Recognized Developer Program Expansion
*********************
Change-log:
Put in Android Terms,Slang & Definitions from Diablo67
Put in New XDA Sharing Policy and Glossary in Terms and Acronyms
Put in all Android OS's names and version numbers
Put in difference between N00B and Newb
Put in Links You Might Find Interesting section
Put in section about Banning Policies
Credits to mf2112 for putting the nuts and bolts together.
Thanks, both of you for this, I'm sure it will be tons of help for the new users.
Thanks, again, for taking the time to do this.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk 2
Awesome thread and a very good idea.
Thank you for taking the time to create such a well informed thread.
I'm sure this will help a lot of new users to the device ^^
...........................
Massive Update(s) including:
*Banning Policy Revealed (which I am sure some will be interested in this more than others)
*New XDA Sharing Policy and
*Glossary in Terms and Acronyms / Android Terms,Slang & Definitions
*Android OS's Names and Version Numbers
*Interesting Links Section
Informative
nice
Dear friends and fellow XDA members
XDA's motto is, and has always been, "By developers, for developers". I think this post (click), even if old, represents perfectly what I'm trying to say.
What kyphur wrote back in 2008 still holds some truth in 2015 -- many people roam this Forum without really diving into the background of the tweaks, ROMs, or custom kernels they're using. Some that do try and investigate though, reach a dead end when the answer they are looking for is so complex and hard to find that even some developers find hard to answer in a concise private message. Some of these people, individuals with promising potential, give up because of this.
What I've set out to do is to compile a database regarding Z3C boot images and everything that has anything to do with them into one single wiki, creating a reference guide for newbies and experienced tweakers and developers alike.
The information available right now about this device's boot images is mainly centered towards older devices, or devices on a different architecture altogether. My point being that data is, for the most part, scattered and hard to find. The project will aim to rectify this issue and bring all the information under one roof
Everyone is very welcome to contribute and see for themselves, and I thank everyone who shares this project in advance. If we are to ever see this project to the end, publicity and community cooperation is important.
Should the project grow big enough, if may be expanded to cover more of Sony's lineup, or even other manufacturers' devices, along with information on system parts other than the boot image alone.
For now, the few wiki pages I have created can be found on http://bit.ly/z3c_wiki. I apologize for any mistakes I might have made, as this idea is new and the current available pages semi-rushed.
Thanks to everyone for reading!
Hello
developer or many others share with us their experiences in this wonderful site and thanked them and we respect their work. but I often find when they give their instructions on how to flash or manipulate smartphones they negligent rather those who are not specialists in the field. (and believe me. they are many here) provided that such manipulations are of way more explanatory especially when the flash supports various phones such as here z1 c6902.6903. Z1C etc ..
example. (I will not mention what .rome) but the best rom. that I've tested up here but with aroma to flash and differentiate what kernel and when to select according to the phone that he is Origin Lock or UNLOCK. or save the zip file. in SD or SD-ext. what version we have before making anything. Me for example I'm ny happen that in the third test. if there was an explanation or intructions for each case or capture images that would be much simpler. ca and would help alot has not bricking their smartphone.
Thank you. and sorry for my English .I am franchophone.
Yes, I believe more inexperienced users are more neglected because this website was targeted more toward power users - "XDA Developers was founded by developers, for developers".
If you need support for a specific ROM you should ask in the ROM thread in the development section.
Don't worry too much about bricking your phone, just remember to read everything and do some research before attempting anything you're unsure of.
My own personal experience
Let me talk to you about my own personal experience on these forums. I have been active on these forums for at least 2 years now I think. One thing people always say (which I neglected early on but understood the value of immediately) is reading. I personally feel Sony phones are the easiest phones to flash things on and recover from a bad state. We have a lot of great tools that are easy to use (which may or may not be the case with other OEMs.)
My first smartphone was a Sony Xperia S which I had softbricked by flashing a GB kernel on an ICS rom (because I read it on a different website) I didn't know how to fix it until I posted a question in the appropriate section on xda. Instantly fixed it. Got a reply in literally 2 minutes and fixed it in 5. I understood the value of reading the info on the site. Xda does not punish ignorance, but at the same time, does not foster it either. People will always help. But also insist that you equip yourself with the tools to help yourself. I learnt so much in my time here, and will always be greatful to the community here. It has helped me grow to a point where I am extremely confident of my skills in fixing issues, no matter what.
To repeat the xda mantra,
Read, read and read. Then read some more.
I've opened this thread so that there can be a CLEAN thread for devs to discuss the development of a kernel mod to the Sprint userdebug firmware to allow a hybrid T-mo/Sprint ROM to be built that preserves T-Mo features such a Wi-Fi Calling and VoLTE.
If you are not a dev currently contributing to this particular effort, please refrain from posting in this thread and use the "ALL THINGS ROOT..." thread here for all other root related discussion.
See Post #2 for ORDER OF EVENTS, CURRENT STATUS AND REQUEST FOR HELP.
See Post #3 for a compiled summary of everything we know and have tried as of this moment.
Let me know if there is anything that you think I should add to this post that might help keep this process on track.
I believe this goal to be attainable but it will likely require some teamwork and collective imagination.
YOU CAN DO IT! :good:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ORDER OF EVENTS, CURRENT STATUS AND REQUEST FOR HELP:
1. T-Mo Note 7 ships with locked bootloader.
2. freeza manages to supply Sprint Note 7 users with a userdebug firmware that allows root access to be gained on the N930P
3. ethanscooter posts the following info in which he shares his experience that the N930P userdebug flashes normally to the N930T, allows boot and root:
Here's how you do it: Follow the EXACT SAME GUIDE FROM THE SPRINT NOTE 7 SECTION!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://forum.xda-developers.com/spri...alaxy-t3447202
To get LTE to work again just add the T-Mobile APN (not that hard).
Also, you might want to freeze all the "Sprint OMADM" packages with titanium backup once you're rooted (will cause less of a hassle every time you boot. I understand the devs in the "all things root" thread are holding this from you because they want to fix WiFi calling but I think giving you root at all will tie you over for now. Also, I'm having problems downloading the gear VR apps with this so it's related to following this tutorial.
Thank you so much to the developers who made this possible for the Sprint note 7 and for everyone who brought this to the other variants (the T-Mobile note 7 was the easiest imo). It's a little funny to think that this whole time it was this easy and we could've been rooted all along. *If you really need the T-Mobile firmware rooted so you can enjoy wifi calling I've been working on something for a few hours but it's not ready.*
T-Mobile APN: https://bestmvno.com/apn-settings/t-...-apn-settings/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
5. The loss of WI-Fi Calling and VoLTE as well as other T-Mo specific customizations (Visual Voicemail?) is identified as a major drawback of using the Sprint fw.Edit: Other issues as reported so far: Samsung Apps cannot be updated, any Bluetooth pairings that are made must be re-paired after every reboot 6. A T-Mobile engineering build is being sought to no avail as of yet. This would resolve the primary issue by allowing us to use a T-Mobile FW with the appropriate T-Mobile modifications for WiFi Calling and VoLTE. (Not sure yet what might be causing the issues with Samsung apps and Bluetooth)
7. In the absence of a Tmo eng boot, several devs are organizing to find a solution. The current idea is to dd a modded kernel after flashing the Sprint fw which would (hypothetically) remove the validation checks that prevent flashing modified images. Then build a deodexed T-Mobile build with the modded kernel and su included.
Progress has been somewhat limited up until now. Partially because most devs have been working quietly in their own silos and communicating ideas and knowledge has been a challenge with the previous threads becoming dominated by chatter rather than the facts as they have and are being discovered.
The other hindrance has been that many devs who are keen to work on this issue are without a device such as Rx8Driver and Chainfire.
ATTENTION:
ANYONE THAT IS NOT A DEVELOPER BUT IS LOOKING TO CONTRIBUTE TO THIS EFFORT, PLEASE DONATE TO THE TWO DEVS MENTIONED ABOVE SO THAT THEY CAN HAVE A DEVICE WITH WHICH TO WORK. ALSO, SINCE I KNOW YOU ARE ALL EAGERLY POURING OVER THESE THREADS, KEEP AN EYE OUT FOR OTHER DEVS INTERESTED IN HELPING THAT MAY NEED A DEVICE AND TRY TO HELP THEM GET THEIR HANDS ON ONE.
ANOTHER OTHER WAY TO CONTRIBUTE WOULD, OF COURSE, BE TESTING. BE WARNED THAT NO ONE HERE AT XDA ASSUMES ANY RESPONSIBILITY FOR ANY CODE THAT IS PROVIDED TO TESTERS OR USERS AND BRICKING YOUR DEVICE IS A VERY REAL POSSIBILITY.
THOSE INTERESTED IN TESTING, PLEASE START A SEPARATE THREAD IN DEV SO THAT GUINEA PIGS CAN ADD THEIR NAME TO THE LIST OF WILLING TESTERS. (PLEASE KEEP THAT THREAD SIMPLE AND TO THE POINT)
In Post #3, I will do my best to provide a straight-forward compilation of all we know and have tried as of this moment.
WHAT WE KNOW (OR AT LEAST THINK WE KNOW):
The following is the list of details that we currently know regarding the T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy Note 7 (SM-N930T) and its locked bootloader including concepts, ideas and loosely confirmed information:
FROM CHAINFIRE ON G+ (regarding SU challenges and some work-arounds):
New exploit protections
As isn't uncommon with Samsung, they've built-in some new (and arguably ineffective to actual exploits) protections directly to the kernel code, that cannot be turned off by just modifying the boot image ramdisk.
This time, they've decided to kernel panic in case a 'priviliged' process (uid or gid below or equal to 1000, so this includes root and system processes) creates another process that isn't stored in /system or rootfs. SuperSU itself does this, but so do a great many root apps. Any time this happens: immediate reboot.
I'm not going to elaborate why in my opinion this is a fairly useless protection exploit-wise, but needless to say it is fairly bothersome for the normal root user, which is probably a lot more relevant for the average reader here.
Unfortunately - unlike many of the security features developed by Google - this feature is not easily disabled by modifying initramfs (boot image ramdisk), and requires further trickery to bypass.
Maybe a better bypass is yet to by found, but for the time being, I have resorted to patching the check inside the kernel itself when the systemless SuperSU boot image is created. This prevents the user from needing a custom source-built kernel, but it's questionable how long this hex patch will work. The code that performs this patch is fairly trivial - it may keep working the rest of the Note7's lifetime, or stop working the next update.
In other words, this could end up being resource intensive to support, or not. We don't know yet. We have to wait and see what Samsung is going to do.
Bearer of bad news
We know S and Note development are generally strongly related, so we should assume to see the same 'protections' appear in the S7 sooner or later as well. This is probably the (ugly) way forward.
Workarounds
Aside from the binary/hex patch SuperSU employs (see common/hexpatch inside the ZIP), there are some more ways to get around this protection.
If you're compiling kernels from source, it seems that setting CONFIG_RKP_NS_PROT=n gets rid of these protections. You may want to disable other RKP and TIMA settings as well, but that is the one directly relating to this issue.
This protection also disables itself in recovery mode, so simply copying a boot image with these protections to the recovery partition and rebooting into recovery (which will then just launch Android) will work beautifully as well.
CF-Auto-Root
The test CFARs I have made so far for the Note7 have not worked, so since both TWRP and SuperSU ZIPs are already available for this device, I'm dropping CFAR development until I have a device in-hand.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
FROM
STILL WORKING ON THIS - NEED TO TAKE A BREAK - FEEL FREE TO BEGIN USING THIS THREAD FOR DEV RELATED DISCUSSION ONLY
REMINDER: See above link to "ALLTHINGS ROOT..." thread for open discussion that is not directly related to solving this issue. Thanks!
Post #4
RESERVED
This is a spectacular thread with solid information and an accurate description of our intentions....i want to state that although i appreciate any efforts made that contribute to obtaining a development device I CANNOT IN GOOD FAITH MAKE ANY PROMISES OF RESULTS NOR CAN I SUPPLY A TIME FRAME SHOULD A DEVICE BECOME AVAILABLE. That said, in time I'll have the device no matter what (assuming i don't just buy an Intl F variant- although that's unlikely since $150 on the barrel head is much more palatable than $900 when i literally just had a baby 4 days ago... plus i work 50hrs a week at my regular job) so i don't want folks to think if they don't contribute I'll never get the device- in fact, honestly if I buy it myself there's even MORE likelihood it'll be a T variant- because i will...
Also, be aware the Chinese model is said to be sd820 as well, and has it's own chances of being unlocked, so when everyone's pitched in to buy myself or Chainfire a device then Samsung releases a Chinese Bootloader we can use that's unlocked and solve all our problems, i don't want a bunch of butt hurt fellow members angry with me because the necessity dried up before i could produce the intended Results. I think @freeza and a few other members who have known me around the forums these past few years will vouch that I'm a Stand Up Dude and truly intend to go as far as reverse engineering the T Bootloader to unlock it. Can I? Idk. Am i knowledgeable enough at this very moment to do it? Probably not. Can i still figure it out? I hope so. Will i brick the device? Good chance. Will i try my best and promise to research and learn whatever is necessary to make it happen? Absolutely.
Those are my terms. If you as an individual reading this don't 100% agree then keep your money in your wallet and wait until i can buy the device myself. That's as straight up as i can be. I'll make another promise. Should anyone donate but the total come up short of obtaining a device before i can on my own, i will leave all the donations in my PayPal and refund everyone's money. Only if enough is gained to buy a device will the money move from PayPal, and then it'll be one transaction to purchase the device using the account. If not enough is collected I'll refund everything that was donated...I'll also agree to prove with screenshots...
So again if you're uncomfortable then DO NOT SEND MONEY.
Thanks to all and i look forward to busting this whole Bootloader open! Or giving it one heck of a try if not!
Sent from my SM-N930F using Tapatalk
Thread moved to General
Thanks for starting something like this gentleman, but as with the bootloader thread, this is not actual development so it belongs in general. Carry on.